Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

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assbot: Browse data: Wired embedded system - WikiDevi ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ mega-list
decimation: ah that is handy
assbot: HP Support document - HP Support Center ... ( )
decimation: hp t5325 'thin client' < 512 mb ram, marvell 88F6281
decimation: $36 on amazon
decimation: looks to be 'old stock' though
asciilifeform: decimation: just about all of the listed machines are 'old stock'
asciilifeform: quite useless, unless one of us were to come across a gigantic crate of these somewhere.
assbot: Lot of 32 HP Thinpro Thin Client T5325 1 2GHz 512MB RAM Flash Factory Reset | eBay ... ( )
asciilifeform: golden toilet.
decimation: $900 is a bit steep though
decimation: might be worth $300-400 at most
decimation: the whole 'thin client' idea is hilarious stupidity
decimation: 'we take away ur computerz so u can be productive'
asciilifeform: it came solely from folks writhing under the leather straps of microshit
decimation: aye. and for the secretary using 'word' it would be fine, more-or-less
asciilifeform: tired of spending money/labour on disinfecting 10,000 boxes presided over by tetris-playing accountants, or retail clerks
decimation: for retail clerks: why not serial terminals? what does the mouse gui add?
asciilifeform: because that was the previous usg monopoly.
asciilifeform: the new one - requires mouse.
asciilifeform: 'shuddup & suck on it' (tm)
assbot: Logged on 02-12-2014 03:31:49; assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 03:44:22; *: decimation remembers every pos and library using said terminals growing up, only to be replaced with buggy-ass windows for no reason
asciilifeform: watched this happen.
asciilifeform: beautiful keyboards, too
asciilifeform ended up buying such a terminal (not from library) and using for a long while
asciilifeform: as a student.
decimation: aye, my first job was a library clerk, using an ibm serial terminal
decimation: had a 'laser scanner' peripheral, even
decimation: scan item, populates text box
asciilifeform still has one of those scanners. with the old stainless steel wand.
decimation: yeah that's the one
asciilifeform: glorious thing. emulated ps/2 kbd.
asciilifeform: (had rs232 port also, presumably for terminals)
decimation: I recall the library was running some variant of 'unisys'
decimation: neh, not unisys, unicorn by sirsi
assbot: SirsiDynix Corp restricted lobby paper against Open Source technologies, Sep 2009 - WikiLeaks ... ( )
decimation: lol they saw the writing on the wall
decimation: actually they shouldn't have capitulated to the modern gui idiocy
decimation: today you could build a really cheap serial terminal, perhaps with 'e-ink' display
asciilifeform: the 'fast' e-ink remains mythical.
decimation: my wife's new kindle is pretty fast
decimation: but probably not fast enough for a full terminal
asciilifeform: folks have ported linux to 'kindle'
decimation: at any rate, it's moot because libraries in the us don't see the point in keeping books anymore
asciilifeform: can now try and see
decimation: every year or two her cheapass kindle 'breaks'
assbot: On my Kindle I am root | TurnKey GNU/Linux Blog ... ( )
decimation: usually, the screen stops updating. I never bothered fixing it, figured it wasn't worth my time
decimation: I should try the hack to see if I can fix it
asciilifeform has a 'kindle dx'. no signs of wear after ~4 yrs.
asciilifeform sometimes wonders whether that product category would exist - and what it would cost if it did - if there were not a built-in chumpatronic collector
asciilifeform: (which one is not forced to use, unlike the one in certain very early 'e-readers', but tempts sufficiently many ESL (to use mircea_popescu's term) folks to bring in a pretty penny for the vendor)
mircea_popescu: the kindle ?
mircea_popescu: i don't perceive its utility
decimation: I think the ebook sales are mostly woman-porn
asciilifeform: i use it mainly for
decimation: they can read in public without showing the embarassing covers
asciilifeform: (not literal, long dead, but texts in general)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93329 @ 0.00038887 = 36.2928 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: as for the chumpatronics, i have no idea who uses.
asciilifeform: someone, somewhere.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and if you need to bash something what do you do ?
asciilifeform: they keep making'em
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a quote collector widget.
asciilifeform: with 'clitoris' joystick
decimation: sufficiently many people believe in paying for ebooks I guess
mircea_popescu: does it have a for ?
asciilifeform: it goes to a text file.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34115 @ 0.00038959 = 13.2909 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: bash as in bourne shell, not bash as in take ntoes.
mircea_popescu: but fine, the notes : suppose you now want to write an article. how do you type, and how do you send it to trilema ?
asciilifeform: then i walk three meters to the actual computer, lol
mircea_popescu: suppose you want to say something here. like a quote.
asciilifeform: see above
mircea_popescu: o wait, this is like a woman that's useful as long as another woman is around ?
decimation: lol mircea_popescu no one types on the kindle
mircea_popescu: decimation my poinbt being, i can't really do anything of the intellect without the whole computer.
asciilifeform: 'kindle' is not a computer! it's this entirely specialized machine, like kitchen mixer.
asciilifeform: my mixer also does not run bash
mircea_popescu: but my mental life is not compartimentalized, like kitchen.
decimation: no, it's a 'read-only' device. the model is that the reader has nothing to say
mircea_popescu: but it happens that i oft do have a loit to say
mircea_popescu: and also i need to test and verify what i read
mircea_popescu: and so on
asciilifeform: the model is that one wishes sometimes to emulate a book.
mircea_popescu: in short, i know of no other process involving the noggin than the full process.
asciilifeform: (why to do this, is a matter of taste)
decimation: do you scribble in the margins?
mircea_popescu: in the book days i used to have my books filled with papers.
asciilifeform usually prefers to scribble in an actual notebook
asciilifeform: aha and papers.
mircea_popescu: as in, have someone to (cut, if uncut) and prefill with blank paper.
decimation: how do you scribble in an ascii text file?
asciilifeform: emacs ?
mircea_popescu: and the worst thing a maid could do is drop a wreath of books on the way to shelving
mircea_popescu: good god. a cloud of now useless paper, and a criminal eyed mp
decimation: asciilifeform: but how do you separate your changes from the original text? does emacs do this?
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with > ?
decimation: I guess there are many simple solutions.
asciilifeform owns many peculiar machines on account of quests like 'program in bed' and 'read ascii/koi8 on balcony' etc.
mircea_popescu: i guess im a reactionary. i own, substantially, the exact kind of machine i had as a child.
asciilifeform: there is not, nor can be, a replacement for The computer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.0003885 = 16.6667 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: you know, the one that is heavy, if you kick, won't move
mircea_popescu: it went from 16 to 64 bits, sure, but otherwise the box is exactly the same size even
asciilifeform: can hold a kg or 2 of dust
decimation: asciilifeform: like ibm AT?
mircea_popescu: i have half a dozen laptops which i use... maybe a day a season, or something, between the lot.
mircea_popescu: i borrowed an ipad for a coupla weeks to check out the games and i gave it back without regrets - more with relief.
decimation: ipad is great for entertaining small children
mircea_popescu: i don't think anything ever was as stulfifying as the ipad game scene. perhaps the failed nes.
mircea_popescu: decimation but small as in 3 yos.
mircea_popescu: yeah, that i have seen. there's a koi pond simulator
decimation: that's pretty much the mental model of the ipad
decimation: 'tap on large icons, receive reward' is pretty much intelligible for 12 months and older
mircea_popescu: extremely odd their insistence on no porn, either
mircea_popescu: that's pretty much the only non-infantile use of the thing.
decimation: my daughter loves her 'app' that forces her to re-order numbers, letters, and phrases to receive a cartoon reward
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53150 @ 0.00039794 = 21.1505 BTC [+]
cazalla: decimation, what's wrong with old fashioned blocks?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1091 @ 0.00096053 = 1.0479 BTC [-] {7}
decimation: cazalla: nothing, she plays with them too. they aren't as portable though
cazalla: seems like a sure fire way to give your kid brain damage
decimation: eh, kids are gonna have to learn to deal with the electronics one day
decimation: I'm trying to teach her German, but it goes much better with a native speaker
cazalla: my plan is to avoid that stuff with my son for as long as possible
mircea_popescu: yeah, you want her to learn german, get her a german speaking dog/
mircea_popescu: like a shepherd or something.
decimation: there was a class locally, but it was canceled for lack of interest
decimation: actually, I would consider getting a german-speaking au pair
asciilifeform: actual computer should be a -place-, not merely machine
asciilifeform: like church organ.
mircea_popescu: decimation bdsm site's this way -->
decimation: turns out you don't have to pay them social security or payroll tax
decimation: at any rate, that's all I have for the evening, good night
decimation: !down decimation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41550 @ 0.00039803 = 16.5381 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "One ought not to pay any attention to Hitler's recent line of talk about being the friend of the poor man, the enemy of plutocracy, etc etc. Hitler's real self is in MEIN KAMPF, and in his actions. He has never persecuted the rich, except when they were Jews or when they tried actively to oppose him. He stands for a centralised economy which robs the capitalist of most of his power but leaves the structure of society
mircea_popescu: much as before. The State controls industry, but there are still rich and poor, masters and men."
mircea_popescu: this guy was so fucking defeated...
mircea_popescu: it's incredible how defeated he was.
mircea_popescu: it's like... not even coinceivable how defeated.
assbot: The Perry Bible Fellowship ... ( )
mircea_popescu: zebra penis!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00038678 = 23.9417 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: zebrahitler (tm)
mircea_popescu: this "people standing on magic carpets of the future" meme is so incomprehensible to me.
mircea_popescu: do people really have such poor grasp of basic mechanics as to not understand that if you're not walking, there's really noi reason to be standing ?!
asciilifeform: and before the 'stand-up desk' fashion, too
mircea_popescu: the banal observation that three hour's walk is pleasant, but quarter hour's standing unpleasant not exactly with them ?!
asciilifeform: oddly enough, there appears to be something to this
asciilifeform: more of a 'bed of nails' thing though
asciilifeform: when i'm in the machine shop, end up having to stand, and it tends to keep one awake
asciilifeform: then again, perhaps it's the acute awareness of the sharp rotating bits
asciilifeform: i'm told there are even treadmill desks
asciilifeform: (whether the treadmill actually powers the computer - that ancient dream - i do not know)
asciilifeform: stakecycle
asciilifeform: looks like the diddler is rigged to reciprocate
asciilifeform: who has not wondered, many times, about such machines
asciilifeform: whether exist, and where
asciilifeform: now we know - at least one.
mircea_popescu: i've not wondered much, kinda discover the potentiality and the actuality in one package as it were.
asciilifeform: ^ pictured unit yours ?
assbot: Fucking bicycle ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154000 @ 0.00039837 = 61.349 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342199 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 520 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44686087306.6 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.26987
asciilifeform: 290291.
asciilifeform: phillipsj is quite a joker.
asciilifeform: 'January 2009 Completed The Insurance Premium Reduction Program at A and J Driving School.' on a cv !?!?
mircea_popescu: it does sound rather like something you get convicted to, doesn't it.
asciilifeform: the whole thing does
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting to read a cv with entry 'xxxx-xxxx - hobo'
asciilifeform: does engl. even have verb, 'to hobo' ?
asciilifeform: бомжевать
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i imagine you see my point. what truly subtle meta-Agranov would come up with something like that ?
mircea_popescu: the man's disarmingly plain.
mircea_popescu: lol@ filthy orwell, going full throtle into "the country is weakened by the war, now is the time to socialism!11"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72450 @ 0.00039847 = 28.8692 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: sorta did happen.
mircea_popescu: it's strange, this unseemly ability of felons, to hide the substance of their felony. first of all from themselves, and even should they be blessed with remarkable observation powers.
asciilifeform: dog barked - caravan moved.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but that's indifferent.
mircea_popescu: man can see what's wrong with socialism, but he can't see what's wrong with his own prose
asciilifeform: t. dalrymple (retired british shrink, wrote a number of hilarious books on psychology of criminals - and civ. decay overally) had a thing on this
asciilifeform: 'the knife went in, the gun went off'
asciilifeform: somethingliekthat
asciilifeform: testimonies full of animated, ambulatory weaponry
mircea_popescu: i'd probably make a horrible judge, on the grounds that i'm generally inclined to let off everyone who kills purposefully.
mircea_popescu: that, at least, i can understand.
mircea_popescu: but none of this "accidental" talk if it is at all possible.
asciilifeform: he has a passage almost entirely this.
mircea_popescu: i guess i'd do okay as a lord with his own court in some marsh cca 1300, but otherwise...
assbot: "The Knife Went In" by Theodore Dalrymple, City Journal Autumn 1994 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose and for someone else to pay when things go wrong."
mircea_popescu: please is the word.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00038584 = 9.9933 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: fella was a prison shrink.
mircea_popescu: i had this girl... she was a psych grad. weighed about 50 kgs if dressed, and had spent three years as the prison shrink.
mircea_popescu: about half the population there, rapists.
mircea_popescu: the other half, murderers, arsonists, all sorts of truly pathological types.
mircea_popescu: she had oodles of stories.
asciilifeform: old prison hands generally do.
asciilifeform must have at least half a book-case of 'prison lit'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45950 @ 0.00038423 = 17.6554 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: kinda what got my attention originally, i could read the girl's experienced, but it made little sense.
mircea_popescu: then i figured out... vicariously!
asciilifeform: at least, unlike the 'vicarious' engineering gurlz, she did not attempt to go and... apply
mircea_popescu: heavens no.
mircea_popescu: she didn't even attempt to write a book.
mircea_popescu: very pleasant girl.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 6000 @ 0.00094869 = 5.6921 BTC [-] {16}
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 21:53:25; mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.
asciilifeform: re: book.
asciilifeform: 'Violent criminals often use an expression auxiliary to “My head went” when explaining their deeds: “It wasn’t me.” Here is the psychobabble of the slums, the doctrine of the “Real Me” as refracted through the lens of urban degradation. The Real Me has nothing to do with the phenomenal me, the me that snatches old ladies’ bags, breaks into other people’s houses, beats up my wife and children, or repeatedly dr
asciilifeform: inks too much and gets involved in brawls. No, the Real Me is an immaculate conception, untouched by human conduct: it is that unassailable core of virtue that enables me to retain my self-respect whatever I do. What I am is not at all determined by what I do; and insofar as what I do has any moral significance at all, it is up to others to ensure that the phenomenal me acts in accordance with the Real Me.'
asciilifeform: ^ see also TLP.
asciilifeform used to suspect for a while, long ago, that herr dalrymple was tlp
mircea_popescu: sounds like pretty typical infantilism.
mircea_popescu: nah, this man is i think english.
asciilifeform: mr d? yes
asciilifeform: very english
mircea_popescu: !up phillipsjk
mircea_popescu: dja know how to up yourself ?
asciilifeform: (anyone who enjoyed 'the knife went in' can see a bunch more, )
assbot: City Journal Author Index ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ by no means his complete works
mircea_popescu: For example, they do not say of the policemen who they allege (often plausibly) have beaten them up, “Poor cops! They were brought up in authoritarian homes and now project the anger that is really directed at their bullying fathers onto me. They need counseling. They need their heads sorted out.” On the contrary, they say, with force and explosive emotion, “The bastards!” They assume that the police act out of
mircea_popescu: free, if malevolent, will.
mircea_popescu: this is pretty good, and an excellent display of why the reconstructive approach is so powerful in talk psychotherapy, and discourse generally.
mircea_popescu: "restate this about that, see how it sounds".
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:31:43; asciilifeform: exercise for student: when you wake up, think of six entirely factually-correct - but disastrously intellectually-crippling - models for some commonplace thing or other.
mircea_popescu: "can't figure it out when a mater of abstract objects ? that's fine, do it over but with cunts and fucking this time. see if the carefully evolved mamallian brain isn't more a help than a hindrance in matters it's actually evolved to handle!"
assbot: The Galbraith Revival by Theodore Dalrymple, City Journal Winter 2010 ... ( )
asciilifeform: (yes, the galbraith of 'the bezzle')
mircea_popescu: "What, then, did I find to praise in Galbraith? In the first place, his personal example, which is encouraging for someone like me who has entered the later stages of his life. Galbraith wrote The Economics of Innocent Fraud when he was 96. That was the last of the approximately 50 books that he wrote, and he wrote them clearly, never giving the impression of wanting to be thought clever because of the difficulty of wh
mircea_popescu: at he had to say."
phillipsjk: so I read , and have been having trouble parsing the math formula. I have figured out that 1.25TB (about 3 years from now) is approximately 35 squared.
assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: this is impressive. imagine, men before public smoking was banned, living to be 96! and able to articulate themselves!
phillipsjk: Not sure how you derived the exponential function for calculating the year 2020
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk if every 170k blocks it increases 35 times, and there's 365 days to the year and 24 hours to the day and 6 blocks in a hour
mircea_popescu: it then follows that the size at any arbitrary point in time is...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95500 @ 0.00039891 = 38.0959 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this thing's merciless huh
mircea_popescu: i like a man who can use the text.
asciilifeform: herr d. does not disappoint.
asciilifeform: incidentally, one of his first (or perhaps first?) works is a description of a voyage he took, to visit the major capitals of the communist world
asciilifeform: incl. (at the time) bucharest
mircea_popescu: bucharest is and always was such a hellhole the likes of which no one has ever seen.
phillipsjk: since the 1.25 factor represents the fist period: 3.23 years, the first number in the exponent must represent something like (n -3) years.. But 2009+6+3=2018.
mircea_popescu: this was my own experience, both under the communists and after, and it was recorded in 1800 by travellers
mircea_popescu: (it did not exist prior to about then)
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk the deleted 2020 is more of a playful rethorical device
mircea_popescu: don't get too hung up on it.
mircea_popescu: the point is simply : "not so very long".
asciilifeform: 'the wilder shores of marx'
mircea_popescu: this is mostly important because considering on one hand the uninformed low level arithmeticizing of reality prevalent in the esl world, and on the other the utter insanities passed for "graphs" on the forum, but also generally in the world - say that abject "cross model", people really need a little example of PROPER use of numbers.
phillipsjk: So you are implicitly expecting the block-size will be much larger than 20MB sooner than we expect as well.
asciilifeform: north kr, albania, ro, vietnam, cuba.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk i am not seriously lowering the discourse to gavin's insanities. a matter of principle is being discussed there, not the irrelevant gargle of whatever derp.
asciilifeform: d. went to ro immediately before the magic xmas.
phillipsjk: good point. Gavin's proposal is just that: a proposal.
mircea_popescu: moreover, gavin is about as unfrequentable intellectually as quisling
phillipsjk: I think that is the most subtle "Godwin" I have even seen. (had to look it up)
asciilifeform: had to look up quisling ?!?!
phillipsjk does not read enough books
mircea_popescu: here you will have them forced upon you.
mircea_popescu: i know i do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, i think one could scarcely have better political education than a tour of the warsaw pact in the late 80s.
mircea_popescu: especially if one packed lots and lots and lots of jeans.
asciilifeform: it worked.
asciilifeform: not sure if he had the jeans (iirc, he went under the auspices of some medical society or other)
mircea_popescu: as i point out in some romanian article, denim bras had i managed to import would have been gladly worn by those women half the current .ro calls mom.
phillipsjk: I mentioned in PM that I assume the year 2010 refers to "mybitcoin" (found mention of it in a forum post Aug 17, 2010)
phillipsjk: "Consider the alternative of It is a client portable to any web browser. You could keep the account/password in your head instead of on a stick. If you want to transact with another mybitcoin account the transaction is immediate too."
phillipsjk: much derp, to use the local parlance
asciilifeform: whatever happened to that crapolade
mircea_popescu: is this the first tihng that pulled a runner ?
asciilifeform: 'web wallets'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the burt wagner, pedophile / gay prostitute / showman with the camera in demo mode ?
asciilifeform: vaguely
mircea_popescu: he massively pumped, and then claimed to have been victimized, by tha thing
mircea_popescu: is how he disappeared.
midnightmagic: "bruce" I think
midnightmagic: where did he claim to be victimized?
phillipsjk: no that is a different person.
phillipsjk: "From the desk of Tom Williams, operator of"
assbot: Press Release #2 ... ( )
midnightmagic: that the one possibly traced to
mircea_popescu: now i gotta check my facts, it's been years
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you're right, the name's bruce.
assbot: The Bitcoin Show - Episode 012 - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the last episode of that thing figures prominently some hot shot kid that made a totally innovative super-great exchange
mircea_popescu: that then "was hacked", but it's ok, because everyone's balance was just going to be frozen and "repaid over time"
mircea_popescu: and then it went away
mircea_popescu: i wish i could remember the idiot's name, he was a reddit star for a season or two.
mircea_popescu: da fuck was his name, the hipster with the dumbass hat.
phillipsjk: "Tom Williams" paid people half their Bitcoin and disappeared. had a private registration is some tropical island country.
phillipsjk: Apparently Bruce is mentioned in the thread I linked:
assbot: The Bitcoin Show - Episode 033 - YouTube ... ( )
phillipsjk: wow, an hour long video
phillipsjk: 6:35: "..For example..Mt.Gox.. I have a bad feeling about them"
mircea_popescu: !up guest_____
phillipsjk: Is html allowed in comments on your blog?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54380 @ 0.00039066 = 21.2441 BTC [-] {2}
phillipsjk: I see a newbie got a "page topper" in Deathandtaxes's thread. (I was totally going to post a link) :)
phillipsjk: ;;later tell mircea_popescu I enjoyed your latest blog post.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Oh look at WP Matt derp about more things he has no idea about
assbot: Real NFL Scandal | Matt Mullenweg ... ( )
BingoBoingo: While also bending his "code art" into ways nothing on the web should be bent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34500 @ 0.00039988 = 13.7959 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00040006 = 15.5423 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40126 @ 0.00040006 = 16.0528 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47800 @ 0.00040006 = 19.1229 BTC [+] {2}
phillipsjk: mircea_popescu: well, you may not believe this or like this, but... my banking depends on my gpg signature o.O < I wish the banks around here knew what GPG/PGP was. The card-holder agreements universally say: "You acknowledge that e-mail is not secure..."
cazalla: phillipsjk, how about.. you must pick a password between 4-8 characters, may not contain symbols or capitalisation
phillipsjk: that reminds me, I should complain about that. Symbols were required, but did not include ,|^= and at least one number was required.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77350 @ 0.0004001 = 30.9477 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133777 @ 0.00039838 = 53.2941 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.09001002 = 2.3403 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: "There’s an increasing number of farmers placing greater value on acquiring older simpler machines that don’t require a computer to fix."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97600 @ 0.0004001 = 39.0498 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60300 @ 0.00040081 = 24.1688 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84000 @ 0.00040094 = 33.679 BTC [+]
assbot: Internet lobs $$$s at dev of crucial GPG tool after he runs short of cash • The Register ... ( )
kakobrekla: >Stripe and Facebook are going to sponsor @gnupg development with $50k/year each.
kakobrekla: oh my
kakobrekla: a whole 50k
punkman: he was living on $20k, $100k sounds fine
kakobrekla: snapchat billions, gnupg a few k.
punkman: geniuses are $60k a year, can't give him billion bezzlars
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34200 @ 0.00039894 = 13.6437 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00040094 = 9.402 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70300 @ 0.00040114 = 28.2001 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68330 @ 0.00039865 = 27.2398 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00096198 = 2.405 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88250 @ 0.00039187 = 34.5825 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00039738 = 5.0467 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98500 @ 0.00039825 = 39.2276 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: morning :]
assbot: The Race to Replace Bitcoin | Observer ... ( )
mod6: fluffypony: ahh, yet another "genius" thinks he's going to replace bitcoin. *snore*
fluffypony: "Mr. McCaleb also happened to be one of the world’s foremost cryptographers, arguably in a class with Alan Turing, the father of artificial intelligence and modern computing."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54922 @ 0.00039949 = 21.9408 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: fish wrappers nec ultra fish wrapping!
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell phillipsjk: Is html allowed in comments on your blog? << some limited html. blockquote, a and i dun recall what else.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: punkman: << so basically, the only reason these adolescent boys have gathered there is to have a good pretext for not washing.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk: [...] < I wish the banks around here knew what GPG/PGP was. << it's because i don't use actual banks, but the well developed argentine underground system.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: >Stripe and Facebook are going to sponsor @gnupg development with $50k/year each. << the only important point in the ruckus being, now we know gpg 1.x is perfectly fine and 2.x not entirely broken, and that there's absolutely no need to expect usable 3.x
mircea_popescu: at least we know where we're standing : what we got scares them. we'll fork it later on an' be quite happy.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the snapchat comparison is QUITE shameful.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: << check it out asciilifeform someone's butthurt over gavin getting shot in the head.
assbot: The Race to Replace Bitcoin | Observer ... ( )
mircea_popescu: someone who was stupid enough to ignore the warnings, for that matter. o, it's not his fault, "nobody could have foreseen".
mod6: 30 out of 40 people say gox & ripple guy is mega-genius and in same class with Turing!!11
mircea_popescu: " The most exciting battle in this long war is taking place in San Francisco, and the town isn’t big enough for both Ripple Labs and Stellar, two of the contenders hoping to replace not just Bitcoin but the almighty dollar."
mod6: haha
mod6: this is what i need every morning. a good dose of solid lulz.
mircea_popescu: but even better, 1st comment : ""Vinnie Falco · Top Commenter · Software Engineer at Ripple Labs
mircea_popescu: Now this is some serious investigative journalism. I even learned a few things!
mircea_popescu: i mean, if you remember this schmuck, he's the "mr bigg" shill mpoe-pr unmasked on the forum.
mod6: srs "journalism"
mircea_popescu: he is now somehow a "software engineer" - heck, if randi could do it ?
mod6: lol mr bigg
mircea_popescu: and he is learning about his company from obscure $300 an article trade rags.
mircea_popescu: imagine that you know, if you had to run boeing with some engineers that went "oh, boeing makes planes actually ? gee i had no idea ty for clarifying"
mircea_popescu: "im a chewing gum aeropropulsion engineer."
mircea_popescu: fluffypony in case it wasn't somehow apparent, "someone" doth not mean you. it doth mean the still unidentified publicly person in charge of handling teh bitcoin problem.
mircea_popescu: in other news, "Warrior Forum8:03 am 54 KiBHow to reach the REALLY rich? - Warrior Forum"
mircea_popescu: gee whiz, i dunno. joining some retards forum, i'm sure o.O
fluffypony: warrior forum never ceases to amuse
mircea_popescu: ever since the flaming idiots of get a freelancer bought it, it's seriously improved
mircea_popescu: comedy-wise.
mircea_popescu: come to think about it : << there's a whoile brand of this sort of idiot in ther wild.
mircea_popescu: twisty's is a fine example : how to make atrociously bad porn out of ingredients found commonly in any porn studio.
mircea_popescu: it's as if there's a race of humans that is really, REALLY bad at anything they do.
mircea_popescu: because in any line there exists this company, which is extremely bad, almost as if it's self-parodic level bad.
mircea_popescu: truly atrocious sort of incomprehensible and unexplainable "you have to be there" sort of bad.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, in terms of the bezzel world, this is an excellent entry :
assbot: Datenklo – Wikipedia ... ( )
mircea_popescu: so this article discusses the famous ccc modem. at the time, germans being insane as today, it was illegal to own a modem, and you had to rent the state company ones, which were incredibly expensive.
mircea_popescu: expensive enough to get people to where they'd root for copies of teh hacker bible, and then build a modem out of repurposed materials by hand.
mircea_popescu: and now, the meat and potatoes : ". Modems waren damals in Deutschland noch verboten, mit Ausnahme der teuren Mietgeräte der Bundespost. Anfang 1987 betrug die monatliche Gebühr für ein BTX-MultiTel 1 48 DM (nach heutiger Kaufkraft 40 €) und für ein MultiTel 2 78 DM (nach heutiger Kaufkraft 66 €)"
mircea_popescu: ie, it cost 48 Deutsche Mark, which "at today's values" would be 40 euros.
mircea_popescu: well fuck me sally, if they truly cost 40 euros at today's values then what the fuck's the problem, that's what internet costs today. what is wrong with these people ?
mircea_popescu: obviously nothing's wrong with the people, but plenty's wrong wit hthe "present values" equation, seeing how in 1985 ie 30 years ago it made perfect sense to spend a week and cut out pipes and whatnot to save "the equivalent of 40 euros".
mircea_popescu: more like 400, but then you'd have to explain 1k% inflation in 30 years,
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 10**(1/30)
gribble: 1.07977516233
mircea_popescu: ie 8% anually, which you don't really wish to do.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64300 @ 0.00040158 = 25.8216 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Romanian models detained in prostitution case | ... ( )
mircea_popescu: that's right, i come from a country where you USED to have to be cool to be able to fuck most of the starlets on tv (prhaps with the show playing in the background, if so inclined). nowadays any schmuck with a coupla bitcoin can do it.
chetty: and you had to rent the state company ones// coming soon to us, internet public utility will make it so
mircea_popescu: it's really funny how the politics of this worked out : 1) buncha companies, unregulated market, bring the thing into existence.
mircea_popescu: 2) client companies of the state wish to be important. the market tells them to stuff it
mircea_popescu: 3) government steps in, sweeps the whole thing under itself, since 2 failed.
mircea_popescu: net result ? a frail, broken, centralized item to take place of the vibrant original and slowly decay. it's "just as good',
mircea_popescu: exactly in the manner 40 euros are "just as good" as 48 DM
mircea_popescu: either way, the only thing a functioning market can expect is attack, either by government agencies masquerading as companies, or else by government agencies actually admitting their government affiliation.
mircea_popescu: in either case, what can't be had in the socialist state is free market.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72600 @ 0.00040167 = 29.1612 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "[Note: It is interesting to notice that Mr Kennedy, USA Ambassador in London, remarked on his return to New York in October 1940 that as a result of the war "democracy is finished". By "democracy", of course, he meant private capitalism. (Author's footnote.)]"
mircea_popescu: lmao. no, you dumb fucking schmuck. he didn't mean what unrelated term you wish he had meant. he meant what he said : the ridiculous notion that random people may speak on random questions.
mircea_popescu: "she said get lost and if i never see you again it'll be soon enough. by get lost, of course, she meant let's snuggle and by never she meant she loves me!11"
mircea_popescu: fucking psychotic logic.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9961 @ 0.00039988 = 3.9832 BTC [-]
TheNewDeal: ;;Nethash
gribble: 326145878.624
TheNewDeal: ;;Bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342275 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 444 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 15 hours, 3 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44694430246.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.29009
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9142 @ 0.00039667 = 3.6264 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: i got 2nd pogo running; it's using my own compiled bitcoind (porta tronic non bastard) and it's successfully pulling blocks from my other pogo (running ascii's porta-tronic bastard)
danielpbarron: the 2nd one has 2 gigs of swap space
danielpbarron: weird, it hung up for a few minutes on block 3000
danielpbarron: but now it appears to be chugging along
danielpbarron: and again on 3500 ?
danielpbarron: gonna get lunch; will check in later
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128787 @ 0.00040195 = 51.7659 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: thanks for the updates danielpbarron
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32405 @ 0.00040276 = 13.0514 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00040361 = 11.1396 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66398 @ 0.00040405 = 26.8281 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1600 @ 0.00096189 = 1.539 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 2) client companies of the state wish to be important. the market tells them to stuff it 3) government steps in... <<< see also the famous example of syntex corp. in mexico (carl djerassi!) - first mass-production of synthetic progestins, then nationalized, then gone - 'bad luck!'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Modems waren damals in Deutschland noch verboten, mit Ausnahme der teuren Mietgeräte der Bundespost << this was SOP in the national telco monopolies of that period; most famously, in usa, where all line equipment, incl. handsets, was considered property of bell co.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phun phact: there are still a few hundred thousand idiots renting landline handsets in usa from lucent (who inherited that subdivision)
assbot: Bad call: Seniors paying thousands to lease home phones | Deseret News ... ( )
asciilifeform: and dollars to doughnuts, some forgotten government office somewhere is still renting a modem.
asciilifeform: << mindfuck. they still take new customers.
assbot: Corded Phones | QLT Consumer Lease Services, Inc. ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: engine where the piston was really just a magnet-bearing shuttle zipping back and forth through coils << i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge - much time and sore muscle spent in changing direction. but this would work beautifully for a liquid-piston stirling engine (see last night's thread).
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: conductive liquid, naturally
assbot: Corded Phones | QLT Consumer Lease Services, Inc. ... ( )
asciilifeform: dignork: it is largely for ^ that american telcos still support 'pulse dialing'
trinque: an observation: the latency of the credit card networks is measured in days
asciilifeform: trinque: where?! in zimbabwe ?
punkman: i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge << I once took a design class where this was a case study of "innovation" and "green"
asciilifeform: trinque: or were you thinking of the lag from purchase to bank statement ?
trinque: asciilifeform: the merchant gets their money in days in the US
trinque: asciilifeform: corrrect
asciilifeform: the folks who count (tm) get it immediately
asciilifeform: hence, from their pov - no delay.
trinque: asciilifeform: even that's more a temporary loan right?
trinque: but I guess if we're talking "effectively" sure
trinque: thought was this claim that bitcoin as-is is slow is complete bullshit
trinque: it's the fastest payment system I'm aware of when you consider the whole process
asciilifeform: punkman: flashlight... was a case study of "innovation" and "green" << the meat puppets responsible should be condemned to spend the rest of their days in oubliette, with only nyt to read, lit only by that flashlight.
punkman: I gotta dig up that textbook, many lolz to be had
trinque: +asciilifeform | the folks who count (tm) get it immediately << dunno that this is so, isn't "settlement" a thing to allow for reversals, etc?
asciilifeform: reversals get taken straight from the merchant's account.
punkman: plus chargeback fee ^
trinque: even seven figure processing accounts I've seen take days to hit a bank account, or at least the next day
trinque: punkman: lol wow the future of p2p payments
punkman: it's a "secure" messaging app
asciilifeform: punkman: odd. i know of no car recent enough to come with a remote button, that doesn't beep/flash when locked/unlocked
punkman: people forget
asciilifeform: for some reason they never seen to forget to put on pants when walking out the door
punkman: I left my bike unlocked for three days, noticed today
PeterL: My wife's bike was once stolen out of our garage ... whoever took it left their bike sitting in our yard. It was the weirdest thing.
asciilifeform: bike laundry.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26050 @ 0.00040434 = 10.5331 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41249 @ 0.00040434 = 16.6786 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00040434 = 9.9468 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00040434 = 13.788 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: << i think this is why it gets stuck every 500 blocks
assbot: Block chain download - Bitcoin ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26950 @ 0.00040434 = 10.897 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90708 @ 0.00039982 = 36.2669 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46950 @ 0.00039627 = 18.6049 BTC [-]
assbot: Amazon Exits Crimea | ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00039627 = 9.986 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: when i turn off my 1st pogo and let the 2nd talk to the rest of the network, it doesn't hang up on every 500th block; i guess there is some config variable that limits how many blocks to send to one peer per session?
danielpbarron: at height=27000 the memory is at like 70% used, no swap
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: what version of Bitcoin are you running?
danielpbarron: the official one
mod6: it's the portotronic version v0.5.3.2 right?
danielpbarron: it's with all the patches up to porta-tronic
danielpbarron: so everything on the homepage of + porta-tronic
danielpbarron: you can see exactly how i built it here
danielpbarron: might be errors if you run that though; i haven't tested it since i cleaned it up to look nice
mod6: ah, my mistake. ascii numbered the "Orphanage Burner" as v0.5.3.2
danielpbarron: maybe that's why
danielpbarron: the pogo with the longer chain is running the burner
danielpbarron: lemme try without that
assbot: Police: 6-year-old boy 'kidnapped' for being too nice to strangers - ... ( )
trinque: BingoBoingo: they didn't sterilize the 4; doing it wrong
danielpbarron: how can a mom get arrested for kidnapping her own son? was the dad not in on it or something?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Looks like he wasn't
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72866 @ 0.0004035 = 29.4014 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: looks like it's still stopping after 500 blocks even without the orphan burning
the_scourge: !s "orphanage burner"
assbot: 6 results for '"orphanage burner"' :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51250 @ 0.00039324 = 20.1536 BTC [-] {3}
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i take it the reference is to the 'hopelessly out of order' meaning, not the traditional definition?
danielpbarron: it's supposed to dump the orphan blocks stored in memory to keep the pogoplug from crashing
danielpbarron: except it's a dirty hack, and the pogo crashes anyway
the_scourge: what's the cheapest device that has usb 3.0? one can get super cheap USB keys on amazon, that would solve the problem
danielpbarron: the_scourge, have you been told to read the log yet?
danielpbarron: watching SetBestChain: new best= scroll by is oddly soothing
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
danielpbarron: height=49141 and i'm getting lots of orphan spam, swap space is getting used now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00040434 = 26.8886 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: ah weird, it's still only going up in chunks of 500
danielpbarron: going back to connecting directly to my 1st pogo in that case
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80092 @ 0.00040445 = 32.3932 BTC [+] {3}
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: where did you get the idea for mpoe?
danielpbarron: ok and now it's getting more than 500 at a time connected directly to eachother.. wtf
the_scourge: danielpbarron: which block did it change behavior?
danielpbarron: !gettrust the_scourge
assbot: Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user the_scourge: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | |
danielpbarron: around the one that i posted above ^
danielpbarron: hm, and now the 1st pogo (longer chain) is stuck while the 2nd pulls from it
danielpbarron: i'm ok with that if it's just until the 2nd catches up
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: of course it will crash. esp. if you built it with max=750 (as in the patch) but with 250 likewise
asciilifeform: still guzzles ram
danielpbarron: here is something strange: when i sent "getinfo" to the longer stuck node, it stapped out of it and started recieving new blocks again
asciilifeform: what is really needed is the experiment suggested by mircea_popescu (or was it davout?) where difficulty-outlier blocks are shot on sight
danielpbarron: and simultaneously the shorter unstuck node, stopped getting new blocks
asciilifeform: the phoundation backport crap needs to go
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342317 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 402 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 8 hours, 45 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44872170693.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.72073
asciilifeform: 300539.
danielpbarron: how are you so far ahead :p
asciilifeform: recall, this wasn't a pogo
asciilifeform: but a generic x86.
danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node took 2 or 3 weeks to full sync
asciilifeform: on what? modem made from dead squirrel?
danielpbarron: standard home cable
asciilifeform: this one is on 100mb fiber
asciilifeform: but otherwise unsurprising, this is the fifth day
danielpbarron: i didn't think bandwidth was the bottleneck
asciilifeform: luck is the main bottleneck
danielpbarron: i recall it taking just as long when i used bootstrap.dat
asciilifeform: recall how sync is from one peer at a time
assbot: Tour Of A Chinese Bitcoin Mine | ... ( )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.10374042 = 2.0748 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00040506 = 8.7088 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: cazalla: interestingly, two faces at the ~6'26'' mark are censored out
asciilifeform: (and similarly, later in)
assbot: Life Inside a Secret Chinese Bitcoin Mine - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1151 @ 0.0009619 = 1.1071 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80100 @ 0.00040512 = 32.4501 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: and, lol! why 'secret chinese bitcoin mine'? what is the secret ?
mircea_popescu: isn;tthat old ?
assbot: Welcome to the future: Philips HUE iOS app crashes and they pulled the app. I can't control my lights anymore. Send help.
assbot: » Economist: New Bill Turns TSA Into Tax Police Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and the noose ever narrows.
asciilifeform: the noose appears to be about the same width as previously (post-'01)
asciilifeform: (for non-u.s. folks: for many years, the guards have been running names through 'wanted' lists when you walk in or out of usa)
asciilifeform: 'Keeping gold in a safe deposit box is money laundering carrying up to 25 years in prison.' << fiction. (though 'deposit boxes' remain a hilarious scam. see old thread, )
assbot: Logged on 15-10-2014 17:38:27; assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 16:11:44; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
cazalla: asciilifeform, prob the real owner and it's a staff member being interviewed instead
mircea_popescu: punkman:
mircea_popescu: i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge << I once took a design class where this was a case study of "innovation" and "green" << as it should be. if i recall correctly the russian name is "labour & light"
cazalla: mircea_popescu, it's old as in there was a photo of the psu dump out last year and it was filmed last year but new as in full clip released today
mircea_popescu: the all union vladimir obama pioneers will certainly enjoy the eco lantern.
asciilifeform: лампочка ильича!
mircea_popescu: Всегда готов!
mircea_popescu: lampushka iliusha hahaha
mircea_popescu: o god that sounds lulzy.
asciilifeform: incidentally, this phrase has been resurrected and now fondly refers to the (increasingly rare) traditional incandescent bulb
asciilifeform: specifically vs. modern chimeras
mircea_popescu: trinque: asciilifeform: the merchant gets their money in days in the US << noob. it's date+60.
asciilifeform: for n00bs: illych's [lenin's] lightbulb
mircea_popescu: days, sure, in the sense bitcoin txn confirm "in seconds"
trinque: mircea_popescu: right, I was saying the "visa is so speed" argument is bullshit
mircea_popescu: utterly bs.
mircea_popescu: but then again, bringing arguments to people who never had any sort of life experience is not unlike trying to give serpents haircuts.
mircea_popescu: always ends at step 1) grow some hair.
asciilifeform was buying lightbulbs not long ago, and did a double-take when saw a line of specifically 'retro' bulbs, claiming to be 'precisely like those of edison's time' - and at least were genuine in costing 10x what one normally expects, and putting out 1/5th the light
asciilifeform: (also had the requisite rought-blown shape and the multiple filaments)
mircea_popescu: multiple fillaments ?
mircea_popescu: oh i had some of them on display
asciilifeform: aha i recall
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so is the "fake kidnapped kid" story the result of "boy telling school what happened"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeed.
mircea_popescu: or is it the result of phone interception -> police telling school to ask kid -> kid not denying convincingly
assbot: VoCore | A coin-sized Linux computer with wifi ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ 32MB. and fuck, that ought to be enough for a bitcoin node
mircea_popescu: it ought.
asciilifeform: chinese mips.
assbot: $15 AsiaRF AWM002 & AWM003 Wi-Fi Modules Run OpenWRT, Expose GPIOs ... ( )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: my 0.7.2 node took 2 or 3 weeks to full sync << no he's right, it's what it used to be.
asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if you short the antenna of a wifi device ?
asciilifeform: you don't actually have to open & mutilate, just don't include it in kernel
asciilifeform: node is not a reactor, if thing sits on bus and listens for doomsday signal from enemy, it'll do what?
mircea_popescu: if it has any magic packet business, it'll come wiereless.
asciilifeform: then pull the internal antenna
mircea_popescu: short all the things!
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons << There's probably a role somewhere for a kind of node with it. Plugged in at "Free Wifi" coffee shop or library. connects to open network, changes MAC address when booted from network. Has script to handled shrink wrap license pages when encountered.
asciilifeform: how it will behave shorted will depend on whether designer bothered with safety
asciilifeform: experiment.
asciilifeform: wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study
asciilifeform: and ideally you'd want one that doesn't dma
mircea_popescu: writing a proper wifi thing for the new world is not on this year's plate.
mircea_popescu: great tech, in principle.
asciilifeform: except the obvious pill is to forget the 802.11 crap and use straight sdr
asciilifeform: ignoring 'spectrum property' and spread/hopping far and wide, as modern mil. radios do.
mircea_popescu: exactly that. a pointed disdain of any rule and regulation not gpg signed as so much crud.
mircea_popescu: !up HlySht
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39243 @ 0.00040527 = 15.904 BTC [+]
the_scourge: asciilifeform: that vocore was just crowdfunded recently. i think they fullfilled initial orders sometime in the past year. i didn't know they were mips!!
asciilifeform: RT5350.
the_scourge: uh that's a wireless chip? i thought we're talking about cpu. i.e. mips
assbot: Ralink RT5350 - WikiDevi ... ( )
asciilifeform: it's one of those all-in-one soc things.
the_scourge: >wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study < as long as cryptography is secure, then it's not urgent. but very interesting
the_scourge: asciilifeform++ thanks, very interesting bit of kit
asciilifeform: the_scourge: wai, wat?! if secure crypto were unknown, it then would be more urgent?
the_scourge: um if we had no way to secure comms on the wild internet, where layers 1-4 can be listened to by demotists (i wouldn't mind if it was a monarch),
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151800 @ 0.00040542 = 61.5428 BTC [+] {3}
the_scourge: then the only alternative would be meshes
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but wireless links between streets would then be secure ?
the_scourge: and WoT to eject untrustworthy nodes
the_scourge: if it's los, yes
the_scourge: my guns are all los too
asciilifeform: secure los exists only in vacuum
the_scourge: :) funny how that works
asciilifeform: and not in the vacuum of space, either - there are loose H2 atoms bouncing there
asciilifeform: might reflect.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if one could kickstart an experimental vehicle for space vacuum filtration to extract gold and other rare metals.
the_scourge: thats and acceptable threat model considering there are HUMANS involved that can fuck up and give away the keys to te kingdom
asciilifeform: from low orbit usg junk ?
mircea_popescu: just talk around the math involved, hire the people out of work once gavin gets forgotten about.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, from cranial junk
asciilifeform: from cranial junk - can extract anything at all.
asciilifeform: even unobtainium.
the_scourge: < this summarizes nicely every smoke break rant i had at the junior devs onsite today
assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: on site of what ?
the_scourge has been desperately trying to avoid learning scheme/Qi for years, fearing never being able to hold a 'productive' contract again
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: client site
the_scourge: the one that got ddos'd
mircea_popescu: client provides its own devs ?
the_scourge: there are hundreds
the_scourge: the team working for me has maybe a dozen and then a massive team in manila that another contractor manages. it's ... depressing
the_scourge: asciilifeform: you know that mark tarver guy you linked to, are you familiar with his Qi and Chen languages?
asciilifeform: wasn't impressed.
the_scourge: if Qi is anything like nix, i would love it forever
the_scourge: anywhere i can go to get some honest opinions on his work then?
asciilifeform: iirc tarver eventually gave up and went off to hell knows where.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: there was, at least in the past, a 'google groups' thing for it.
the_scourge: :( he's just on a downer!
asciilifeform: may still be there.
the_scourge: no, i want critics, not fanboys
the_scourge: did you do a writeup? i've grepped for such to no avail :(
asciilifeform: did not.
asciilifeform: did not find it interesting enough to bother with a writeup.
asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages a la prolog where the operator has no possible way of having the faintest clue what an operation will cost
the_scourge: right but that's only tru of Qi, not Shen
asciilifeform: shen had pattern-matching.
the_scourge wonders if a 'pattern matching' language could even be a functional language
asciilifeform: and even a built-in prolog!
asciilifeform: just about everything pushed as 'pure functional' (haskell, standard ml, etc.) to a large extent operate via pattern matching
the_scourge: < "an integrated fully functional Prolog" hrm you're right about the latter
assbot: Shen (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
asciilifeform: don't take my word for this, look at how they are implemented
the_scourge learned nix over christmas and thought about learning haskell
the_scourge: i'll have to look at the haskell implementation
danielpbarron: here's a rough draft of pogo instructions: / criticisms welcomed!
the_scourge: although a few things came up when i started looking into it that turned me off haskell
asciilifeform: the tell-tale symptom of a programming language that does far too much behind the scenes is when its users seldom, if ever, study the implementation
asciilifeform: writing a (demented but functional) c compiler and (very old-fashioned, to the point of braindamage) lisp interp. used to be standard homework assignments
the_scourge: is perl a pretty good example of what you mean?
asciilifeform: one such
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: this gives you a rather heavyweight linux - with systemd, even.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: eventual goal, i dare say, is a fully-automated reflasher that drops in something sane.
danielpbarron: yeh i'd like to use something other than arch but that's what i've figured out for now
the_scourge: asciilifeform: would be a good place to start with such excercises?
assbot: Lisp in Small Pieces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'buildroot' is the ticket
asciilifeform: the_scourge: christian quinniec's book?
danielpbarron: yeah the instructions at this point are only for advanced users :/
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yes
asciilifeform: heavy but very enlightening work.
danielpbarron: oh man is it!
danielpbarron: <3 gentoo
the_scourge: danielpbarron: nixos has a pretty good balance of minimal and predictable (even for noobs), have you considered that?
danielpbarron: i get the feeling they intentionally leave things out of their guides to force the user to figure it out
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> danielpbarron: eventual goal, i dare say, is a fully-automated reflasher that drops in something sane. << quite
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'NixOS 14.12 “Caterpillar” has been released, the third stable release branch. It brings Linux 3.14, systemd 217, Glibc 2.20, KDE 4.14.1, and much more.'
asciilifeform: the_scourge: trololol!
mircea_popescu: in any case purge that systemd atrocity , as a matter of principle if not necessarily practicality.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron has probably noticed that pieces of 'systemd' crash every few hrs. on that box
danielpbarron: i've noticed that it needs constant supervision, yes
mircea_popescu: it's only to make use of the "much faster boot"
the_scourge: asciilifeform: if you're implying it's not lightweight, only systemd and the kernel are installed off the bat. and some guys have done work on a systemdless setup
asciilifeform: at any rate, it pretty much has to be a 'buildroot' script in the end. so as everything ends up in a ro-mountable flash image.
mircea_popescu: how is poettering to sell a shitty re-implementation of yarvin's pile of crap ? PROCLAIM LOUDLY THAT IT BOOTS FASTLY.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: we are discussing an embedded system with 128m each of ram and eeprom.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that a) not really and b) a machine's not really supposed to boot anyway
danielpbarron: i don't care how fast it boot since it shouldn't have to do that more than once (depending on the stability of your electric)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what was the curtis yarvin brand of systemd called ? i forget ?
asciilifeform: mr mold did not, last i heard, ever publish anything analogous to systemd
mircea_popescu: o ya ? what's urbit ?
asciilifeform: had a perverse functional-programming master's thesis disguised as an open source project, yes
the_scourge: urbit is yarvin's thing
assbot: Loper OS » Of Decaying Urbits. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indulge me : tries to take over everything ? check. crashes all the time ? check. two matches, good enough.
asciilifeform followed project for a while before it was publicly advertised
mircea_popescu: this is even skipping the "ambitious nobody proponent with a history of failure up to that point"
asciilifeform: it actually has a closer resemblance to the perverse programming languages discussed earlier in this thread, than to systemd
mircea_popescu: i would imagine alsa is uncontroversially a massive failure on poettering's scoreboard.
asciilifeform: alsa almost works.
mircea_popescu: exactly my point.
the_scourge: he did the other one
mircea_popescu: stuff that almost works for its lifetime is worse than no stuff.
the_scourge: alsa was what he tried to replace
mircea_popescu: iirc there existed an alsa as a kernel module
mircea_popescu: but then pulseaudio swallowed it.
mircea_popescu: i guess it'd be sort of dress-rehearsal for systemd
asciilifeform: iirc there are not yet poetteringisms in the mainline kernel.
mircea_popescu: "Even in 2014, you cannot use PulseAudio for competetive gaming on Linux. Not that it matters anyway. Even Valve abandoned Linux."
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is a major point. the death of the linux is not exactly unrelated toi the major disappointment of the money makers.
mircea_popescu: people tried to get games going on the platform, 2007-8ish to about 2012. it failed.
asciilifeform: not entirely unconnected with the gpu vendors' behaviour.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46969 @ 0.00039543 = 18.573 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: not entirely, no.
mircea_popescu: also not entirely unconnected with open source peace and love nitwits who far from knowing which necks to squeeze,
mircea_popescu: don't even realise squeezing necks is what gets things done.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, it seems the alsa | pulseaudio difference was in fact bitterly preserved. one of those underground wars people like me tend to embarass themselves by not noticing.
assbot: TurboTax Stops Filing State Tax Returns Due To Massive Fraud | ... ( )
kakobrekla: prolly nobody cares but i just checked for fun whats the pogo cost in europe; its 55 dorra.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah they run out of stock, not looking like they want to replenish it either.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i distinctly recall seeing this figure here earlier
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 17300 @ 0.00093104 = 16.107 BTC [-] {39}
kakobrekla: ah ok
kakobrekla: must have missed it
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i've been looking into alternatives
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: thus far, found nothing remotely approaching the bang/buck ratio of pogo
asciilifeform: further suggesting that the latter was a 'loss leader' all along
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "breech" => breach
kakobrekla: only true bezzle can provide
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, that again.
mircea_popescu: dude i really like this qntra thing. about 1/3 of what i hated about the obsolete press were mistakes. being able to go hey x, Y! makes me all fucking warm and fuzzy inside.
kakobrekla: well personalized news is personalized, doh
BingoBoingo just pines for the day breech will be the correct version more often on qntra.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22313 @ 0.00040554 = 9.0488 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That's a nice one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171057 @ 0.00040832 = 69.846 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: turbotax article << see also last night's thread re: identity fraud in usa.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's what inspired taking the piece this direction
BingoBoingo: On day the phenomenon is in the logs getting discussed, the next it's the angle used to disect a fraud in the news.
mircea_popescu: win-win as they say.
BingoBoingo: Reading informs writing. Scholarship 101
the_scourge: asciilifeform: where would you recommend someone starting with lispy languages?
BingoBoingo: brb, going on a bender this weekend.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: depends on your objective
the_scourge: first is to be able to continue (at least for a while) doing my consulting without shooting myself from boredome
cazalla: ;;later tell bingoboingo fixed 2 spelling mistakes last paragraph
gribble: The operation succeeded.
the_scourge: that mark tarver article really resonated with me. that pretty much described me to a T.. and still does. it's actually why i ended up doing non-STEM degrees: there is no lack of boredom when you're lost in a library
the_scourge: second, i'm REALLY REALLY interested in lisp machines
the_scourge: so, something minimal i guess? scheme is used for embedded stuff i've seen. guile is interesting just 'cause the gnu nix clone uses it
asciilifeform: -which- lisp machine ?
the_scourge: personally i'm interested in one that hasn't been made yet
mircea_popescu: ... you want to code for a machine that doesn't exist ?!
asciilifeform: the_scourge: get peter kogge's book, then
asciilifeform: the_scourge: none of the others will be of much help.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: thanks. historically all i know about is really the AI lab stuff. i went through a phase where i read the jargon book and some more 'original' sources about the AI labs. but this was almost 20 years ago
the_scourge: asciilifeform: Architecture of Symbolic Computers < this is the one?
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asciilifeform lived in free-standing bldg since may, and only now thought to put it to proper use: plug in subwoofer & setting to max.
the_scourge: same thing here. i love playing the piano as loud as possible :D
the_scourge: other than 2 houses across the road, there are no neighbors for over 6 miles in all directions
the_scourge is thinking perhaps he could slowly transition his consulting to clojure development and keep his existing clients
trinque: glorious clojure
asciilifeform not a fan
trinque: asciilifeform: too much "magic under hood" as you said?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54212 @ 0.00041243 = 22.3587 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( )
assbot: Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( )
asciilifeform: trinque: the former was, until recently (and possibly now) among the top 'google' hits for the subject.
trinque: "I find Clojure revolting.
trinque: dis gon be gud
asciilifeform: if reading the comments, skip straight to
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( )
asciilifeform: short version: 'clojure' is to, say, 'common lisp', as 'ripple' is to bitcoin.
asciilifeform: a bauble pushed by unrepentantly lying chumpatronicists.
asciilifeform: it was actually my first exposure to that kind of thing.
trinque: read both, you're right
asciilifeform: you know, the folks who walk in with a turd and explain to you that it's 'just the same' as a sausage, but 'more up with the times'
trinque: what I end up using has a lot to do with "what can I fart a website out in"
trinque: at least in daily work
trinque: I've considered trying just sbcl on one side and parenscript on the other
trinque: but yeah, sausage... turd...
asciilifeform: parenscript is just a lib for any ordinary cl
asciilifeform: this whole 'www' thing never made sense to me. if you can open a socket, you can crap out html
asciilifeform: so it alone can't possibly justify the use of turdlangs.
trinque: just depends on how one earns daily bread
asciilifeform: why does the socket have to be opened using $turdlang ?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: did you ever use a genera machine?
trinque: what I'd like is a situation where I'm writing the same language in both a browser and on the server
asciilifeform: the_scourge: certainly.
asciilifeform: !s symbolics 3620
assbot: 9 results for 'symbolics 3620' :
asciilifeform: !s opengenera
assbot: 7 results for 'opengenera' :
trinque: I've seen clojure/clojurescript, cl/parenscript, haskell/fey (and a few others)
asciilifeform: trinque: this leads to using $retardlang on server end
trinque: sure, hail satan and pass the node
the_scourge goes to find out what is opengenera and where has it been hiding
asciilifeform: the_scourge: it's been hiding in northern virginia.
trinque: my career started during web 2.0 :p
asciilifeform: and a small piece in cambridge, ma
asciilifeform: the_scourge: don't be fooled by the word 'open'
trinque: asciilifeform: does cl fall under $retardlang too?
trinque: ye gods, no firm ground to stand upon
asciilifeform: trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl?
trinque: doesn't the parenscript compiler eat cl and poop js?
asciilifeform: trinque: so you're actually using js. you will notice this, because the cl subset that can be thus eaten/shat is microscopic
trinque: asciilifeform: same situation as reaching out to Java in clojure then
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the 'open' in 'opengenera' is an archaic 1980s usg-ism. it simply refers to the fact that a product features industry-standard protocols like tcp/ip and does not require you to buy the entire universe you live in from one particular vendor.
the_scourge is back, dissapointed
the_scourge: so it's just genera 2.0?
asciilifeform: has nothing whatsoever to do with source being publicly available, or the product being distributed free of charge
asciilifeform: technically symbolics had no name for their os until opengenera was put on the market.
the_scourge did find this: while he was gone. seems worth of bookmarking for later
assbot: ynniv/opengenera · GitHub ... ( )
the_scourge: oh, i thought it was just called genera
asciilifeform: the_scourge: that's merely a script for setting up the unofficial amd64 binary to run under a modern linux.
asciilifeform: the binary is a w4r3z blob, and occasionally distributed with the pirated source.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70158 @ 0.00041298 = 28.9739 BTC [+]
trinque has very little idea where to start in terms of choosing a sane programming environment with which to make bezzlars
asciilifeform: the source - not for the amd64 blob.
asciilifeform: but for the original os
asciilifeform: there is no public source for opengenera (either for dec alpha or amd64)
asciilifeform: nor is it included with a purchase.
the_scourge: what do they charge for a copy
asciilifeform: when i bought - $5k usd.
asciilifeform: call, ask.
the_scourge: just when i was starting to think esr and rms didn't have a point. maybe they did
asciilifeform: the source for the dec/amd64 emulator is not sold.
the_scourge: exactly
asciilifeform: the_scourge: in the days of rms, symbolics corp. sold machines. the cheapest started at about the cost of a single-propeller airplane.
asciilifeform: 5k in modern american money is pocket change in comparison.
the_scourge: actually i take it back, the problems here were probably not market-based, but more cultural (and lack of appropriate customers)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i'm not saying it's exorbant - just expressing dissapointment
trinque grows to suspect that there is not a programming environment asciilifeform likes
the_scourge: trinque: he like vimscript. a lot! :)
trinque: lol
asciilifeform has never seen 'vimscript'
trinque: tis butt
trinque: little imperative scripty guy, nothing special
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 177500 @ 0.00041335 = 73.3696 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: I'd put more money on asciilifeform being an emacs guy, but not because he likes emacs
asciilifeform: no need to guess
asciilifeform: it's all in the logs.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: < broken link
assbot: Loper OS » Where Lisp Fails: at Turning People into Fungible Cogs. ... ( )
asciilifeform: the_scourge: loads fine.
asciilifeform: aha pike's
the_scourge: no, the link to .. yah
asciilifeform: when i explain to folks why i dislike programming on available systems, i sometimes use example that it is rather like being a fellow who likes gardening, but there was a thermonuclear war not long ago, and you gotta sift the soil with sapper's spade in one hand, geiger in the other, and there won't be much sunlight to be had either.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: 36 results for 'from:asciilifeform emacs' - #bitcoin-assets search
trinque: I recently mapped my f keys to load projects in emacs and appropriate window layouts in stumpwm
trinque: rules.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: can i get a blow by blow on what historical event was this allegorical thermonuclear war?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: no.
asciilifeform: it would be either a crock of shit, or book-length
trinque: the_scourge: he already blogged it all
the_scourge: "I estimate that 90-95% of the work in Plan 9 was directly or indirectly to honor externally imposed standards." < wow that is really sad... and ... is there a solution?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: yes, there is.
asciilifeform: !s year zero
assbot: 28 results for 'year zero' :
the_scourge: needs quotes :) looking now
the_scourge: soviet open hardware? wut really?
the_scourge: !s gossip
assbot: 49 results for 'gossip' :
asciilifeform: 'more things in heaven and earth... than are dreamt of in your philosophy.'
the_scourge: and that search needs a d at the end ^ (for anyone following along at home)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i don't know what 'things' are, and i don't know what philosophy means
the_scourge: *'philosophy'
asciilifeform: if you recognize neither the words, nor where they apply here, i'm powerless to help.
the_scourge: is gossipd this psycd-like symetrically encrypted UDP IM protocol?
asciilifeform: 'year zero' simply refers to a reset, where you forget that a given field even has a history (except as an encyclopaedia of what not to do.)
the_scourge: but then doesn't it ruin the excercise?
the_scourge: intuition is destroyed. creativity ruined. because we're tyring so hard to not do what we are misconceited as what went wrong?
the_scourge: speaking of greenfield, what was the reason for greenfielding a re-implementation of psycd? (assuming gossipd has already been written)
asciilifeform: what exercise.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: because the similarity is superficial.
asciilifeform: psycd is a cancerous monstrosity.
the_scourge: well it depends on which implementation you're speaking of
asciilifeform: any and all.
the_scourge: there are a dozen i think. 2 of them named psycd
asciilifeform: the name normally refers to the ancient thing based on 'gnunet'.
the_scourge: you sound confident. what if i told you there was a psyc daemon implemented in 15 lines of common lisp? :)
asciilifeform: the 15 lines also contain rsa?
asciilifeform: the socket handler?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: bullshit is not welcome in #b-a.
the_scourge: no, sorry i wasn't bullshitting. i'm just trying to point out implementation vs architecture
the_scourge: 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. < funny, that's one of the reason i've avoided
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( )
the_scourge: i assumed it was poor design and useless academics who'd never had to do a hard day's work in their lives. perhaps it is a shit test?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: poor design for folks used to ibm's (yes, originally their) traditional key chords.
asciilifeform: yes, it is possible to bolt them onto emacs. but few people do.
trinque: evil mode + leader bindings
trinque: that's the stuff
the_scourge: well i'm paying myself paternity leave coming up soon so i'll learn emacs. haven't had a chance for a bit of time in a while
asciilifeform: most folks who lack the mental flexibility to relearn five or six key commands, would not benefit from emacs, and (if they are aware of its existence at all) - know it. and avoid.
trinque: space as leader has done wonders for my hands
the_scourge: trinque: thanks i'll try that
trinque: <esc> <space> f -> C-x C-f
trinque: I also have esc as right alt
trinque: easily thumb-pressed on this keyboard
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i get remapping caps and ctrl, but it still means you're having to combine keystrokes which is always painful to watch
trinque: chords really suck
asciilifeform: painful to watch << such as... ?
the_scourge: as opposed to combinations which are clearly natural. they are idiomatic so the brain groks them more, and the fingers do them easier
the_scourge: any time you are holding down one key and pressing another is painful. even the shift is an example of this
the_scourge: i've noticed you don't capitalize a lot of the time
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
the_scourge: no one does
the_scourge: because, it's painful
asciilifeform: because slow.
the_scourge: you type all the letters in your words
the_scourge: never seen you say 'cause or 'c u later'
trinque: leader bindings are as fast as you type
the_scourge: er, whatever
trinque: and faster than chords because no stretch to the modifier
the_scourge: trinque: yes, i agree
asciilifeform: if you have healthy hands, decent input devices, it is possible to do such surprising things as speaking in complete words.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: which proves my point
asciilifeform: what was the point?
the_scourge: complete words = idioms. leaders. sequences.
the_scourge: they are not painful
asciilifeform: that chords are intrinsically unhealthy somehow?
the_scourge: well i've seen a lot of gnarled old hands. all of them told me it was chording that did it
asciilifeform: see naggum's observation.
the_scourge: yes, these were people who had always had it remapped
asciilifeform: ipso facto poorly.
trinque: meh bindings are pretty personal
trinque: who cares if it works
asciilifeform: or rather, this is not unlike the observation that everybody at the cemetary is there 'because' they breathed air.
asciilifeform: yes, technically - they are.
the_scourge: bindings are a really personal thing. i just hope that i can learn emacs and manage to use leaders for everything, that's all :)
trinque: nubbins' next book will be one of asciilifeform's koans
the_scourge: i need to head off... this weekend i'm going to look into the parallella. i'm curious if a symbolics machine could be implemented in it's FPGA
trinque: the_scourge: cya
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge -2 dear usg, please send better clowns; the cheap ones are growing tiresome.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.-2:872c8508e60de91180b0972e6d07b54ecd8a3362dca96a9a958e64487de13a3f
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for the_scourge from 1 to -2 with note: dear usg, please send better clowns; the cheap ones are growing tiresome.
asciilifeform: ^ and the_scourge, don't bother pm-ing. killfiled.
danielpbarron had a similar feeling
asciilifeform: i hope they send him off to wherever they demoted ninjashogun to.
trinque: asciilifeform: think he's reading logs and fishing?
asciilifeform: !down the_scourge
asciilifeform: trinque: i suppose anyone here who hasn't killfiled, will learn the answer.
asciilifeform: i - can't be bothered.
mircea_popescu: well, job's a job. back in whatever on a new one.
asciilifeform: their 'watercooler' conversations must be golden.
asciilifeform: the last straw was the bugger 'shannonizing' my www. i wonder if there's some 'person' that this genuinely works on.
asciilifeform: 'omg1111!!111 i am so interested in xxxxxxxx tell me moar'
asciilifeform: note to future stooges, moles: take some actual care to be distinguishable from comment spam on our www sites
mircea_popescu idly wonders what'd a world look like where gavinesque insanities actually made sense. "have everyone's coffee purchases validated by everyone and preserved forever".
asciilifeform: interesting idiots are sometimes (temporarily) tolerated. tedious idiots - never.
mircea_popescu: yottabytes all over, but perhaps something like nock (in principle, not what was proposed) ?
trinque: I try to only ask a few stupid questions a day :P
asciilifeform: even the nock stack posited local caching for trivialities
asciilifeform: rather than a global record of every 1+1.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but imagine data storage literally was not an issue.
asciilifeform: o(n) addition was also 'not an issue'
mircea_popescu: and global record of 1+1 was trivial. perhaps on a machine much akin to physical reality : the result of mixing milk and water is stored for everyone to see - they need but look
mircea_popescu: there's of course a finite number of photons that saw it, but w/e man.
asciilifeform: global record in the sense of every instance
mircea_popescu: interesting how qm actually clips the graph there huh.
asciilifeform: !s hashlife
assbot: 4 results for 'hashlife' :
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technically speaking, the milk and water mixing IS recorded in ever yinstance.
asciilifeform: ^ compression of spacetime via 'memoization'. this is more or less how one would implement toy universes.
mircea_popescu: trinque i think the concern is to be approached on two lines, empirically. line 1) what % of queries constitute powerplays and b) what % of queries result in interesting education that a noob reading logs would benefit from.
asciilifeform: there was even an old sf story which posited that various microscopic physical limit phenomena result from the emulator shaving cycles in this manner.
mircea_popescu: as 1 goes up and 2 goes down there's at some critical point after which a man is taking his voice in his hands.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly. in this sense, the ultimate engine/life form would be one that lives somehow off the shaving.
asciilifeform: like the bank thief who pockets rounding errors.
trinque: mircea_popescu: hard to get taught anything if you're fighting the teacher
trinque: well, taught what you're after
asciilifeform: (incidentally, american banks learned from the 'salami' case and now do it SOP.)
trinque: if I ever make it out of the gravity well I'd love to get an actual education.
mircea_popescu: actually i'm kinda half curious how many us based conf attendants discover at the border that the newly expanded tsa doth not agree their passport holds any value.
asciilifeform was actually rather surprised to be let out last time
trinque: my grandfather still gets hassled at the border for "american party" involvement back in the day
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron "You can throw out the packaging and manual; we won't be needing those." << gotta love the justifiable pride the most serene republic's flag elates out of people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24452 @ 0.0004145 = 10.1354 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: i should add more stuff like that so it isn't all command line copy paste
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your 'pogo' booted from external devices without replacing uboot ?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mine - did not
danielpbarron: i followed the instructions on the archlinux page for pogo and it worked
danielpbarron: 'uboot' does not ring a bell
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: when thing powers up, it boots from the eeprom
asciilifeform: there is a boot partition there, containing an ancient version of 'uboot'
asciilifeform: (a kind of programmable bootloader, similar to 'lilo')
asciilifeform: the unit i have, had to be reflashed with a modern build of this, to boot from anywhere other than the kernel and root partitions in eeprom
danielpbarron: hm, mine was so easy to do i felt weird re-writing instructions for it
asciilifeform: ^ which can be rewritten easily
danielpbarron: i used brand new unused hard drives.. is it possible that has anything to do with it?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: nope
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but uboot is resident on the drive ?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you installed arch to the drive and booted to it, didntcha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: uboot is resident in the 128mb eeprom
asciilifeform: on pogo
asciilifeform: followed by a partition holding kernel
asciilifeform: followed by a similarly sized empty one
mircea_popescu: yeh he booted the drive. did you danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: followed by root
asciilifeform: the root fs is a 'ubifs'
asciilifeform: (yet another fs optimized for fragile 'flash')
asciilifeform: dev: size erasesize name
asciilifeform: mtd0: 00200000 00020000 "u-boot"
asciilifeform: mtd1: 00300000 00020000 "uImage"
asciilifeform: mtd2: 00300000 00020000 "uImage2"
asciilifeform: mtd3: 00800000 00020000 "failsafe"
asciilifeform: mtd4: 07000000 00020000 "root"
asciilifeform: ^ layout
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl? << haha this i wanna see. clonqueror.
trinque: :( lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cl rewrite of emacs, 'climacs', was almost usable
trinque: I-I just want to swim in a lake not filled with shit!
danielpbarron: the arch install occured on the pogo, if that's what you mean
trinque: but everything around me is a superfund site
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: yes, but it was able to boot from it after.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: so possibly you got a slightly more recent fw than i
mircea_popescu: any way to check fw vers ? other than popping unit ?
danielpbarron: yeah it rebooted with no extra work needed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when the thing warms up, it dumps uboot ver. to the serial console
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron can oyu check an report ?
asciilifeform: other than that, one can take a snapshot: dd if=/dev/mtd0 of=turd.bin
asciilifeform: and throw in favourite hexeditor
danielpbarron: one of the steps in the arch install might have done something to the built in flash; i'm not sure to be honest
danielpbarron: it had me download a script and run it
asciilifeform: wai wat!?!!
asciilifeform did no such thing
asciilifeform: so you did reflash. with hell knows what. lol
asciilifeform: dollars to doughnuts, danielpbarron had a normal pogo
mircea_popescu: what is the arch install and how did it end up imported in here ?
danielpbarron: when i searched the log for pogo, i found that linked
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was a public set of instructions for installing 'archlinux' for arm onto 'pogo'.
asciilifeform: i used the disk image from it
danielpbarron: i'm happy to experiment with alternatives
asciilifeform: one ends up with a mindbogglingly-heavy ubuntu-style thing, complete with 'systemd'
mircea_popescu: okies, so basically he found a shortcut ?
asciilifeform: bash script that downloads and flashes in somebody's uboot
mircea_popescu: a shortcut through the mud
asciilifeform built the uboot from public sources
asciilifeform: using same crosscompiler as for everything else
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron for the sake of sanity, can you proceed closer to asciilifeform's original ?
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with shortcuts in principle, but this one hurts.
asciilifeform: who could even imagine, an 800K bootloader!
asciilifeform: there's a complete shell in there
asciilifeform: and tcp/ip stack...
asciilifeform: helps in resurrecting a totally b0rk3d machine, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had some toast earlier, the toaster:~$ said :L)
asciilifeform: (you can pump in a fresh kernel with tftp)
assbot: WebHome < U-Boot < DENX ... ( )
asciilifeform: used in perhaps 90% of the embedded net junk on the planet
assbot: Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: imho in the final turd we nuke it
asciilifeform: just have the thing load a straight linux kernel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124711 @ 0.00041574 = 51.8474 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "psycd is currently being refactored into a GNUnet service to run secushare on. The former psycd code is quite interesting, but currently unmaintained. "
mircea_popescu: am i a bad person for lulzing at this ?
mod6: i just passed block 168,001
mircea_popescu: mod6 took the whole day ?!
mod6: am now on block 168,011
mod6: ah, na.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was an attempt at something like tor.
mod6: i just got a chance to work on it again here now.
mircea_popescu: any idea what the hook was ?
mod6: i upgraded openssl
mircea_popescu: from what to what ?
mod6: root@debian-test:~# openssl version -a
mod6: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014
mod6: from version...
asciilifeform picked a very arbitrary openssl
mod6: OpenSSL 0.9.8o
mod6: which was from the orig debian 6 iirc
mircea_popescu: uh that's like 2010 ?!
mircea_popescu: 2009 even ?
mod6: yeah.
mircea_popescu: sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011
mod6: it's old. this is what was included with ben's script to configure deb6.
mircea_popescu: whereas if you compile itwith more 2011 ish openssl itdoes ?
mircea_popescu: this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ?
asciilifeform did not test with anything other than the shortly post-heartbleed turdball specified in 'portatronic'
mod6: so far. it's really weird still though, because i wasn't having this problem before. and we've always been using an old ssl.
mircea_popescu: might be a bug specific to the 9.8o but then that doesn't explain how all the others worked
asciilifeform: actually
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am willing to bet there are over 1kbugs in this thing. all distinct.
asciilifeform: let's rip out openssl in the simplest way
asciilifeform: roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used.
asciilifeform: so, for example, we can see what they are.
asciilifeform: (with naked eye)
asciilifeform: and then send them to hell
asciilifeform: and substitute in sanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you be specific rather than rhetoric ? i dun follow
asciilifeform: specifically,
mod6: so thats ^^^ my version of openssl on my aws instance, and i've sync'd successfully at lesat a dozen times in the last 4 months on there
asciilifeform: we snip out the #include <openssl/......>
mircea_popescu: sigs won't verify.
asciilifeform: that's step 1
mircea_popescu: oh oh oh i see
asciilifeform: step 2 is crypto.cpp/h
mircea_popescu: this is actually a worthy plan.
mod6: and now wedges for some crazy reason. now I'm gonna upgrade to 1.0.1g there as well (just upgraded my deb6 on vbox vm to start with) and try to pass the wedge too.
asciilifeform: where the missing routines are then placed.
mircea_popescu: course also what the wunderbar vc boys are trying to do with their NOVEL inmplemetnation
mircea_popescu: you recall, the one that's so well tested apud gmaxwel
asciilifeform: i must confess
asciilifeform: that i was unable to make myself read the whole thing
mircea_popescu: openssl ?
asciilifeform: gavin's 0.10
mircea_popescu: nono, this is planned. lemme fish it out
asciilifeform: dove in once or twice to fish out the orphanage burn thing
asciilifeform: which had to be mutilated in six different ways to bolt onto 0.5.3
assbot: On why 0.10's release notes say "we have reason to believe that libsecp256k1 is better tested and more thoroughly reviewed than the implementation in OpenSSL" : Bitcoin ... ( )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ? << yes, im sure that i'll dig into this further
mircea_popescu: << actually this is pretty good a point, seeing how the tit actually goes INTO the face.
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.'
mircea_popescu: a true interface.
trinque: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: the one truely thing i deeply regret from 2014
mircea_popescu: is how that spammer guy killed qntra and then bitcoin-assets.
mircea_popescu: i used to like dropping in on them now and again.
mircea_popescu: such is the fate of right wing movements tho, bereft of means and resources as they are.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used. << I want to collect some more data on this issue. But I'm open to discussing this option going forward.
asciilifeform: mod6: simple algorithm: comment out the #includes
mircea_popescu: mod6 this issue is critical because it's easily the squishiest point of the whole protocol.
asciilifeform: mod6: and then add the routines back in until the thing builds again
asciilifeform: however
mircea_popescu: why the fuck we're importing from a different project - and THAT one in particular is anyone's guess
asciilifeform: you may end up pulling in much of the openssl turd in the process
asciilifeform: !s the spittoon
assbot: 9 results for 'the spittoon' :
mircea_popescu: and a sad testament to what you get stuck with if , like satoshi, have to jackbuild a house
asciilifeform: is there a particular reason
asciilifeform: why the wallet is still in ?
mircea_popescu: in what ?
asciilifeform: therealbitcoin.
mircea_popescu: the reference implementation ?
mircea_popescu: how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ?
asciilifeform: i suppose that'd be why
mircea_popescu: " My standard of comparison for any technology will always be everything previously achieved by mankind, rather than what is available on the market today."
mircea_popescu: this much is a solid approach.
mod6: asciilifeform: One school of thought is to take the wallet, and place it outside of the R.I. as a seperate entity.
mircea_popescu: "do not tell me of what seems acceptable as an idea to pudgy people driving on the interstate towards connecticut. i do not care."
mircea_popescu: mod6 does that idea go as far as making bitcoin a sort of xserver ?
mod6: something to that effect, perhaps. yes.
mod6: where you can connect to 'bitcoind' with a wallet of your choosing. if that's what you mean.
mircea_popescu: like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ?
asciilifeform: idea that was spoken of was a hopper to throw signed tx in.
assbot: Logged on 23-10-2014 05:07:32; mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> connected with serial cable << this from reading up on old mpex material ?
asciilifeform: ^ thread
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but more generally speaking.
mod6: right, then there was that whole discussion.
mod6: So, yeah, there are a number of topics that we look forward to discussing with you about future of the R.I. We'll get there. :]
mod6 does a data round-up & updates openssl on AWS instance
mircea_popescu: poor mod6 sounds exactly like buridan's ass :D
asciilifeform: back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ?
danielpbarron: oh btw, the pogo running with swap space hasn't crashed yet, currently at 87k
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron was it 2gb space ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems to be the report.
danielpbarron: yeah, slightly under after formatting
mod6: <+asciilifeform> back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ? << yup, that's what unwedged it. move from openssl v0.9.8o -> openssl 1.0.1g
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: blocks?
mod6: mircea_popescu: haha.
mod6: yeah, some well thought out decisions to be made for sure. :)
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: as in how many ?
mod6: im looking forward to that discussion, as well as the BDB removal discussion
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re the "Have you ever actually used a speech recognition system to enter serious lengths of text? " line in your comments : i agree talking to a comp
mircea_popescu: hm, actually, woul you prefer i comment there ?
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, 88100
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: either works
mircea_popescu: so i agree that talking to computers is loathsome. however, i often use note takers when speaking rather than writing myslelf. the latter explains the former.
mircea_popescu: the great utility of the scribe / secretary, rather than the tits, is that natural languages have piles and layers of redundancy built in. a good note taker is a cheap way to gain 50 to 100% speed and a decent 10 to 25% quality for very little cost.
mircea_popescu: BUT if the computer you are talking to is equally redundant and badly built, you are either an idiot or very very unfortunate.
asciilifeform: computer, as we have it, does not even know how to 'say that again plz'
asciilifeform: but merrily craps out garbage
mircea_popescu: a secretary that does that generally gets fired.
mircea_popescu: but! she can fix asonances!@
mircea_popescu: if any good, she can go "you don't actually say that"
mircea_popescu: as in, "i've never heard it before"
asciilifeform: the secretary will know how to finesse the question
mircea_popescu: it's a job, and it earns its pay fairly.
mircea_popescu: but the reason itdoes is specifically - that recipient is not computer.
assbot: Re: Why a lisp OS? Re: Help required on Limitations of Lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ nothing to do with lisp, but with secretaries
mircea_popescu: also obligatory, wilde. "i will leave it to you to fix the ifs and thens and wherefores"
mircea_popescu: actually where's that great fry monologue.
assbot: Stephen Fry Kinetic Typography - Language - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: (to dampen that : fry likes wilde more because wilde was a fag than because wilde was good. which he wasn't THAT good. but nevertheless, THIS point is sound in this context)
asciilifeform: so far it sounds like what orwell would've farted out in a paragraph
asciilifeform: but turned into a whole dance
mircea_popescu: very politically like minded, yes.
mircea_popescu: which of course in a different time would beg the snide question if orwell were ever married.
asciilifeform: was, interestingly
mircea_popescu: (note that this does not mean the same as "was ever married" in the slightest, which is the point)
asciilifeform: iirc at least 2x
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242700 @ 0.00040201 = 97.5678 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: i thought he was a womanizer
asciilifeform: iirc was, but it didn't leave any interesting material for archaeologists
asciilifeform: or if did, i'm unaware.
mircea_popescu: lol this naggum thing. jesus christ he's impossible to talk to.
mircea_popescu: at which point does the use of "seperate" in the original text suggest to him that he's dealing with a simple man with simple problems and he'd better stick to simpler solutions ?
mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of socialist minds in this world, the sort that expect all people to be equally stupid, and the sort that expect all people to be equally smart.
mircea_popescu: neither is good news.
asciilifeform: what was the 'simple man with simple programs' doing in comp.lang.lisp ?
mircea_popescu: looking for a nut.
asciilifeform: mistook address ?
mircea_popescu: "according to a report in the Economist earlier this year, the cost of producing any piece of business communication dropped along with advances in computers from 1950 through 1980. from 1985 through 1995, it rose sharply enough to consume all earnings made since 1950. it is significantly more expensive to produce a business letter in 1997 than it was in 1950. despite many technological advances with a very high pri
mircea_popescu: ce tag, a secretary does not produce any more measurable output now than in 1950 -- in fact, the evidence suggests that obtaining _half_ the productivity of a 1950's secretary in 1997 is a major feat. the fact that managers write their own reports at down to 1/10th of the speed of a secretary that used to be paid 1/10th of their salary also means that the time spent producing a letter or a report can cost as much as 1
mircea_popescu: 00 times more than it did in 1950, when managers scribbled unreadable notes and very quick and efficient typists corrected their spelling, grammer, and language and adhered to "company style" effortlessly."
mircea_popescu: now that... that is EXACTLY what i had in mind earlier.
asciilifeform: a sparrow caught in a microwave horn
asciilifeform: also mistook address
asciilifeform: speaking of which
asciilifeform: student puzzle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform laugh if you will, but if pressed to come up with a definition of humanity, at least as an ideal object, the most sound i can think up is, "that collection of objects which construct relations which degrade gracefully"
asciilifeform: give a physical explanation, in one sentence, of why a trumpet/tube/microwave horn needs the 'bell'.
mircea_popescu: so... sparrow cooked, sure. simple man should be safe.
asciilifeform: naggum saw comp.lang.lisp as something more like a machine shop than a public square
mircea_popescu: even so.
asciilifeform: 'must be =this= tall to ride'
mircea_popescu: note that the guy wasn't actually making code changes
mircea_popescu: i guess perhaps he was in some definition
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which part's the bell ?
asciilifeform: the end opposite from mouth
asciilifeform: (wide end)
mircea_popescu: not all of them actually end in a resonant chamber do they ?
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure i saw simple funel shapes
asciilifeform: funnel shapes also work
asciilifeform: answer (rot13) - gur ubea, va obgu pnfrf, zngpurf gur vzcrqnapr bs gur genafzvggre - zbhgu be zntargeba, rvgure - jvgu gung bs serr fcnpr.
mircea_popescu: "in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it." << and in this sense... their merging would be expected at about the time "most people" couldn't if press explain exactly what the ++ stand for.
mircea_popescu: ah hehe that's a good point.
mircea_popescu: i suppose "resonance chamber" isn't actually a good enough answer.
assbot: Ask Dr. SETI: Characteristic Impedance of Free Space ... ( )
assbot: Impedance of Free Space - AstroBaki ... ( )
mod6: ok was able to pass 168,001 on my aws instance with configuration: openssl 1.0.1g + v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 } :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152100 @ 0.00041249 = 62.7397 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 342354 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44859627562.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.69034
asciilifeform: 302465.
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