Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-01-06 | 2015-01-08 →
mircea_popescu: lmao that sounded like a divisive question.
asciilifeform: ergo he did not play ball.
asciilifeform: at some point, somewhere.
asciilifeform: so his chain was reeled in.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, he was kinda dumb.
mircea_popescu: woudn't surprise me if legit pedo.
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2014 00:04:59; asciilifeform: pierce << ideal example of the animal described on one of mircea_popescu's essays - he could be packed into prison for life, any time, based on what's in his file. so he does as instructed.
asciilifeform: not even necessary that he not be 'legit paedo'
asciilifeform: but parsimonious hypothesis, imho, is that he was a chained, leashed paedo.
mircea_popescu: seems to me on the contrary, it's just "random redneck doing various shit online like scams and pedophilia got nicked"
asciilifeform laboured under an impression that 'actual paedo' is a rather uncommon thing, and hence their over-representation in sc4mz0rd0m is something in need of a logical explanation
mircea_popescu: guy had a scamrecord a mile long, and always dumb shit like
assbot: Devianttwo SCAMMER | ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actual pedo irl yes. among the online scum that makes up a good chunk of the "bitcoin community" on places like forums etc, common enough.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: earlier link concerned my working hypothesis as to why.
asciilifeform: (it being, they get 'annointed' by handlers specifically for being thus malleable)
mircea_popescu: doubt it tho, seeing how many they are and how ignominously they labour.
asciilifeform: there is the added difficulty of everyone and anyone in usg-dom being 'a paedo' retroactively on the mere request of a preet.
asciilifeform: вредители.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is it merely my puny brain, but i still don't grasp the 'signed-default is bad because preet can steal a key.' if preet gets a hold of my key, he may as well have put a bullet through my hide, stuffed the corpse, and proceeded to live on as it
asciilifeform: signed gossipd or not.
mircea_popescu: for my curiosity, people who run torrents : how many connections is common ? 10 ? 20 ? 40 ? 80 ? 160 ?
asciilifeform: depends on torrent for what.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not because "preet can steal a key"
mircea_popescu: i just meant, generally. i dun care for what, trying to see how this works in practice.
artifexd: The torrents that I have run get 15-20 connections
asciilifeform: just strikes me as a peculiar retreat from the whole 'let's bring an end to eternal september' thing
mircea_popescu: it's exactly that tho!
mircea_popescu: it actually puts an end to it.
asciilifeform: as it is, you're relying on the next hop node's operator to sign your words.
mircea_popescu: suppose you're an average derp. what do you do ?
asciilifeform: watch tv until die ?
mircea_popescu: problem solved, september ended.
mircea_popescu: i meant, what do you do to gossipd obvbiously.
artifexd: !s gossipd
assbot: 0 results for 'gossipd' :
asciilifeform: cajole a 'l33t3r' friend to give you an 'in', perhaps
mircea_popescu: artifexd i ended up referring to your project as that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then you piss me off, i frown at your friend, you're out.
asciilifeform: what did 'derps' do in 1991 ?
mircea_popescu: you made it 3 days.
mircea_popescu: now what ?
asciilifeform: this is the ideal working of the scenario, yes
mircea_popescu: ok, i frown at your friend, he demures, i delink him, you both are out.
mircea_popescu: 2 derps, 3 days.
asciilifeform: in practice, derp can often masquerade as simply an underenthusiastic or overworked 'actual person' for a spell.
mircea_popescu: in practice derps never manage this, if we're to go by history, but anyway.
asciilifeform: just recalling various guests in #b-a, and how long it took each to work his (often her) way out of the alimentary canal
mircea_popescu: who, specifically ?
asciilifeform digs log
asciilifeform: saffron
mircea_popescu: as far as i recall, for as far as my own chatlog is concerned, it took them exactly an hour longer than it took me to decide it's enough.
asciilifeform: indian candy
mircea_popescu: now, why shouldn't this be the situation to everyone ?
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't mind seeing either of those.
asciilifeform: merely examples of people who took weeks, rather than days
asciilifeform: aha but walked off rather than killfiled
mircea_popescu: was thinking more like xmj and his ilk.
asciilifeform: aha right
asciilifeform: better example
asciilifeform: or, what if herr pankkake had made things more difficult by slowly doing... his thing, rather than swapping uniforms in one fell swoop
mircea_popescu: i dun see how any of these are serious avenues to attack gossipd.
mircea_popescu: literally, all it takes is a one line edit.
asciilifeform: not so much 'attacks', but i for one was hoping to see this experiment as a beginning of the 'wot internet'
mircea_popescu: so it is.
mircea_popescu: imo, quite exactly.
asciilifeform: where eventually derps will not be able to send a packet, period.
mircea_popescu: but it's EXACTLY what it is!
asciilifeform: not if individual quanta aren't signed
mircea_popescu: they still need a friend to let them in.
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's current scheme, they still are signed, i'll point out. but ad-hoc, by the next hop node
mircea_popescu: you understand this ? nobody can police a list of 2bn ip addresses.
mircea_popescu: anyone can police the 200 people he himself knows.
asciilifeform: not people. or ip addresses
mircea_popescu: same thing.
mircea_popescu: blacklisting doesn't work, and whitelisting should be done locally, and responsibly.
asciilifeform does not disagree with this at all
mircea_popescu: but you disagree with the implementation of ewxactly this ?
asciilifeform: just not really grasping why we need the 'deniability' thing.
artifexd: nor I
asciilifeform: it seems to fly in the face of better-living-through-crypto
mircea_popescu: it's odd because to me it seems exactly opposite.
mircea_popescu: as in, why add clunk that actually harms and hinders, except to perpetuate what we generally agree is a harmful meme.
asciilifeform: how is message-is-standalong-quantum-that-traverses-the-net-on-its-authors-signatures-merits added clunk ?
mircea_popescu: excactly like that.
asciilifeform: *standalone
artifexd: Other than some extra bytes, how is it clunk? How does it harm or hinder?
mircea_popescu: ok, let me try and make the whole story.
mircea_popescu: currently : 1. friend to friend relations are entirely cryptographically secured. 2. unknown-to-unknown relations are not secured, and must proceed through a friend of either party to even happen.
mircea_popescu: what you propose : 1. friend to friend and unknown to unknown relations are the same thing.
asciilifeform is at a loss to see how this follows
artifexd: Uh... no.
mircea_popescu: this harms because : it gives unknowns a weight they should not have ; it removes the incentive for users to police at their local level ; it allows third parties to construct undeniable chatlogs that they had no business in.
mircea_popescu: anmd there's plenty more, but srsly... how much is needed.
asciilifeform: incidentally, in no holy book is it written that a pubkey is readily pinnable on a particular creature walking this earth
asciilifeform: one can have 'anonymity' or 'deniability' or whatnot, as commonly imagined, at the same time as signed-everything
mircea_popescu: and when you say no what do you mean no.
artifexd: It doesn't give weight to unknowns. It gives continuity do unknowns should they desire it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not naturally.
mircea_popescu: artifexd that is weight.
mircea_popescu: the existence of unknowns should be entirely at the mercy of the knowns. no exceptions and no way out.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by what mechanism do 'unknowns' transmogrify into 'knowns' in your cosmography ?
mircea_popescu: by whatever mechanism anyone chooses to use.
mircea_popescu: THEY have no power,
mircea_popescu: which is to say no obligatory mechanism exists.
artifexd: No. It is continuity. I assign weight to what they say by my judgement. They assign continuity to what they say by signing it.
mircea_popescu: artifexd it is not up to them. it is up to you.
mircea_popescu: the moment you add them to your list, they have continuity.
mircea_popescu: before that , they are ephemereal.
mircea_popescu: not their option. yours.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at present time, an 'unknown' can generate a pgp key and carry on 'continuity' with it over whatever channel. we can't exactly prevent it
mircea_popescu: because we don't work for the group here. we work for the individual.
asciilifeform: nor have any good reason to try
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a problem
artifexd: it allows third parties to construct undeniable chatlogs << while true, I don't see the issue with it
mircea_popescu: it is not an advantage.
asciilifeform: and here is where i'm puzzled
asciilifeform: how not advantage
mircea_popescu: artifexd i do. it's the equivalent of making a weirdo reality where anyone who eavesdrops also has a recording device.
mircea_popescu: none of their fuckinbg business. if they weren't invited to participate they can not RELY on the discussion.
mircea_popescu: not to the detriment o the participants, in any case.
asciilifeform: but, carrying on with the analogy, recording machines exist.
asciilifeform: this is like a late-medieval knight wishing that cannon had not existed.
asciilifeform: fact is, they do
mircea_popescu: no. making it not exist.
mircea_popescu: fact is, they only do if you wish to implement them. i do not.
mircea_popescu: i don't see much has improved since the recording machine era. do you ?
asciilifeform: if specifically aiming for anonymity, deniability, one ends up designing a widget akin to 'tor'
asciilifeform: is this the intended shape ?
mircea_popescu: this specifically aims for reconstructing sane chat, online.
asciilifeform: i won't argue that a working 'tor' would not have its uses, but it is a very different animal from an 'adult' rebirth of internet circa 1989
mircea_popescu: rather than some conveniently diddled , horrible implementation designed for the needs of the nsa
mircea_popescu: (more generally, of the state)
asciilifeform sees the genuine dilemma here. but sees it as a dilemma, not an open-and-shut case in favour of soft-anonymity
mircea_popescu: do tell.
mircea_popescu: i dun see any sort of dilemma.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does not like the notion of nsa goon having a non-deniable tape of anything he catches. (i don't much, either...) asciilifeform does not like that it is generally customary to speak unsigned, and thereby nsa goon can put words into his mouth, and a certain number of people will believe them
mircea_popescu: what the clueless "believe" can not ever be your concern.
mircea_popescu: it is folly to even consider this point. focus on what is within your control.
asciilifeform: it is when they lead me to the electric chair
mircea_popescu: not even then.
mircea_popescu: a screening of "a man for all seasons" is in order here.
asciilifeform: until the magic dawn when the last idiot is strangled with the guts of the last scammer, there will be ones who believe the crap.
mircea_popescu: quite exceptional walk through the very points involved.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is neither here nor there.
mircea_popescu: fundamentally your argument reduces to a deep seated "all peoples matter"
mircea_popescu: to the tune of monty pytrhon's every sperm is sacred. no, they do not.
asciilifeform: this inference is perplexing. i don't see how it follows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because whythe fuck do you care what some people you doin't know say on any topic ?
asciilifeform: how does a bomzh, stinking in the street, who happens to have generated a pgp key, 'matter' ?
mircea_popescu: well since you're concerned with what he might say or believe, it seems he does.
asciilifeform: i'm concerned only in the particular corner case that he is actually my friend, who has been reduced to that condition by malefactors, but still remains in possession of his key.
mircea_popescu: i do not care what "buts" and "ifs" you add.
mircea_popescu: what remains is... you are concerned.
asciilifeform: i'd say 'generic bum' and 'mircea stripped of his clothing and cast adrift in shanghai' are different scenario, no ?
mircea_popescu: so how is this germane ?
mircea_popescu: obviously, if we're connected, you know my key.
mircea_popescu: at issue is your proposal to make this a reality for people you don't know.
asciilifeform: nope. i fully understand that the latter is neither possible nor desirable
mircea_popescu: so then what is the dilemma ?
asciilifeform: 'who signs'
mircea_popescu: you know my key, you directly verify my client is signing correctly, what is keft ?
asciilifeform: in the scheme as presently described, your client is also signing (for the record of the hypothetical nsa goon, among others) a fairly arbitrary set of messages.
mircea_popescu: it is not signing them, no.
mircea_popescu: it is merely passing them along.
asciilifeform: it signs the session whereby they are given right to travel the net
mircea_popescu: "this is what i heard"
asciilifeform: well, yes
mircea_popescu: that, it does. but it makes no representation they are from me.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it speciically says they are not.
asciilifeform: and what is the intended mechanism for propagating a message which -does- make this claim ?
asciilifeform: laborious external signature, as at present time ?
mircea_popescu: for instance.
mircea_popescu: or, if you prefer, elevating the source to the rank of a connect.
mircea_popescu: thereby doing it all automatically.
asciilifeform: please briefly describe 'rank of connect'
mircea_popescu: the same relation as between you and me, in the scenario.
mircea_popescu: you have his key in the initfile, and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the tidbit that escapes me is how you came upon the idea that default-signed would empower, rather than lower into pederasty, the 'anonymous derp'
mircea_popescu: well that's the clou of the entire thing now innit.
asciilifeform: if i can grasp this, perhaps it will all make sense to my head.
mircea_popescu: i think i explained it half a dozen different ways, to exhaustion, but am at a loss as to why what seems obvious is not communicating itself.
mircea_popescu: let's go the other way. why do you think it would so lower them ?
asciilifeform: did i misunderstand, or did you say earlier that it would be a good thing if the street bomzh could not use pgp ?
asciilifeform: (and gain continuity thereby)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00061581 = 2.2785 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ok, let's work a different way. let us compare two scenarios.
mircea_popescu: in both cases, we are discussing user Panopticon, who sees all and says nothing. now, in spec as is, it is true that user P will know... nothing. correct ? whereas in your proposed spec, he would know... everything. correct ?
mircea_popescu: how is giving the bum EVERYTHING lowering him in any sense ?
asciilifeform: everything ?
mircea_popescu: and whence and wherefore should he have anything but nothing ?
mircea_popescu: well yes. all the signed chats of everyone = everything. absolutely as 1 = 1.
asciilifeform: if he truly knows 'everything', he can unmask the 'deniable' speakers likewise.
artifexd: I guess I like the default sign because I see myself as Panopticon. I don't talk much. But I watch and listen. Default-sign helps me.
asciilifeform: no need for signatures.
mircea_popescu: artifexd you might discover it hurts you, much like the low level usg employee who thinks the fed helps him would soon discover his lot would be better without that bit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how ?
asciilifeform: if he truly knows 'everything' he can elementarily determine which earthly carcass crapped out which words.
mircea_popescu: for all he knows, they're all in cahoots, sending him lulz.
mircea_popescu: he can not determine this.
asciilifeform: presumably some earthly not-quite-everything was meant, rather than a 'divine' Everything
mircea_popescu: everything in the network duh.
asciilifeform: then mircea_popescu is correct
asciilifeform: hitler does know considerably more under the all-signed scenario than alternative.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, hitler IS a lot more in that than he would be in this.
asciilifeform: but if we actually want to go in that direction, the logical result is a gadget like 'tor', with bounces, mixes, etc.
asciilifeform: rather than lukewarm step in that direction, no?
mircea_popescu: this is paid for, somewhere, by someone. who is paying but me ? even if i can't show where it leeches me, it does. why should i ?
mircea_popescu: there's nothing lukewarm about this.
mircea_popescu: it is, unlike the tor etc bs, actually efficient.
asciilifeform: just seems like an attempt to build a stove-refrigerator hybrid. yes, can be done, yes, in some sense these are complementary machines. but - challenge.
mircea_popescu: nothing of the kind.
asciilifeform: (combination of 'tor'-like apparatus with 'wot', in particular)
mircea_popescu: the tor bs is an attempt to "fix" in implementation problems to whose existence it not merely contributes, but moore! whose existence it actually postulates.
mircea_popescu: it is fundamentally broken and will never work exactly because it simply presumes the adversary wins.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5070 @ 0.00062134 = 3.1502 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: speaking of the 'platonic' tor, rather than the cthonian horror of the actual proggy
mircea_popescu: wheras as proposed, gossipd makes the enemy outright impossible.
mircea_popescu: not even deliberately, just, as a side effect.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform even the platonic.
mircea_popescu: structure it and i'll show you how it assumes it.
asciilifeform: well, 'platonic tor' is simply that a large number of people agree to 'play non-broken telephone' between me and a destination.
asciilifeform: thereby obscuring the existence of the conversation, within certain limits.
mircea_popescu: a destination you know nothing about.
asciilifeform: a destination you may or may not know something about out-of-band
mircea_popescu: so the fundamental statement is "the group is more important than the individual"
mircea_popescu: and you wish to know why it is broken by design ?
mircea_popescu: that's why.
mircea_popescu: once that's in there, of course fucking nsa.
asciilifeform: (e.g., i may know that it is a machine at ip p.q.r.s with rsa pubkey K)
asciilifeform: well yes. nsa comes inevitably in because you are trusting three strangers whom you know nothing about, to form the circuit.
mircea_popescu: now apply the same analysis to gossipd.
asciilifeform: gossipd proposes a scheme more akin to the traditional 'cell' organizations of revolutions, etc
asciilifeform: (i dare suggest that a node be referred to as 'cell', for extra lulz)
mircea_popescu: historically, the closer a relation, the more direct.
mircea_popescu: this is not some sort of random contrivance of boredom.
asciilifeform: it is the inevitable construction that stands.
mircea_popescu: this is specifically because, historically, the individual is more important than the group
asciilifeform: like bridge truss.
asciilifeform: (triangles)
mircea_popescu: which is how humanity managed to inch its way to this sad time when it's about to kill itself a thousand different ways
mircea_popescu: all born the same stupid place.
asciilifeform: which, in this context, place ?
mircea_popescu: "group is more important than individual"
mircea_popescu: a mental place.
asciilifeform: ah that.
mircea_popescu: i must say, incidentally, i thoroughly enjoyed this discussion.
mircea_popescu: heck, haven't felt so alive in weeks.
asciilifeform: srsly ?
asciilifeform pictured mircea_popescu breaking keyboards, etc
artifexd: "How many times do I have to explain this shit!"
mircea_popescu: so did the pets peeking in online. but no.
artifexd: This pretty much prevents one-way relationships, right?
artifexd: If you and I are online, unless we are both in each other's list, we will never direct-connect.
mircea_popescu: this part is finnicky. it shouldn't, ideally, but i don't see how it could be done.
artifexd: We have to both agree to trust each other.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, connections on the internet don't work unilaterally.
mircea_popescu: so im guessing this is going to be forced by the medium.
artifexd: They do via UDP
mircea_popescu: if we were onm a purely broadcast network, it'd work right
mircea_popescu: but udp is hard.
artifexd: No argument
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure it is actually to any purpose important.
asciilifeform: udp is trivial!
asciilifeform: damnit.
asciilifeform: tcp is hard.
mircea_popescu: tcp is hard to employ usefully.
artifexd: upd is trivial for sending information if you don't care if they received it
artifexd: If you want a back and forth connection, you end up duplicating tcp yourself.
asciilifeform: artifexd: for sufficiently simple quanta, it is very easy to 'verify received' without duplicating all the cruft of tcp.
mircea_popescu: artifexd you will notice the spec is broadcast-oriented.
mircea_popescu: you don't really need to hear anything back from anyone.
asciilifeform believes the future to hold many one-way links
asciilifeform: shortwave radio, castaway bottles, obelisks.
mircea_popescu: artifexd nevertheless, since output is always encrypted to a key,
mircea_popescu: unilateral relations are really hard.
mircea_popescu: (i mean, as opposed to soft. it's not like twitter, follow X. it's the opposite, "send to X")
decimation: it occurs to me that one ought not design low level features into a communication system unless absolutely necessary
mircea_popescu: this about which bit ?
asciilifeform: decimation: that particular point of contention was about a kind of thing not readily retrofitted.
asciilifeform: it is a grave misconception that 'anything can be retrofitted.'
asciilifeform: if it were so, existing net protocols would suffice...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform explain transsexuals then.
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 01:22:05; asciilifeform: with udp, you can make the 'friend or foe?' decision upon receipt of a single (!) packet.
asciilifeform: transsexuals ?
mircea_popescu: they get gender bits retrofitted. it's a joke.
asciilifeform: actually very pertitent
asciilifeform: good example of clumsy and very threadbare attempt at 'retrofit'
mircea_popescu: and impertinent at the same time!
mircea_popescu: i might be especially thick, but i don't actually understand what decimation is saying.
mircea_popescu: which is the low level function ?
decimation: this was from a paper that was written by folks who designed early 80's network protocols
asciilifeform happens to be a crackpot specializing in the subject of 'abstractions being interchangeably paperable over is a mega-lie, foundations matter forever'
asciilifeform: you will -never- get single-packet friend-or-foe with tcp or tcp-like apparatus.
asciilifeform: (nor an immediate transposability to shortwave/message-in-bottle)
decimation: I don't see why one couldn't route ircd on top of ascii's udp-wot-internet
decimation: (the new ircd being proposed here)
mircea_popescu: ah ah that's what you mean.
mircea_popescu: yes, once that happens, they could.
mircea_popescu: not before tho.
mircea_popescu: decimation did you actually read the whole discussion ?
asciilifeform is about to sleep, and recommends to friends also about to sleep, to read 'petrified world.'
asciilifeform: good story before sleep.
adlai: what's this?
assbot: THE PETRIFIED WORLD (Robert Sheckley) - ... ( )
asciilifeform: (quite pertinent to this evening's thread)
mircea_popescu: are you 12 ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think i read this.
asciilifeform: aha srsly ?
decimation: I did. I find myself liking ascii's hardened bedrock
asciilifeform: hypothetical, sadly, bedrock
mircea_popescu: decimation how was the experience ?
asciilifeform does not have a battlefield-ready apparatus to offer
decimation: it was a good discussion, I also found it stimulating
decimation: but I do see the problem of broadcasting signed messages everywhere
asciilifeform: !s six words honest man
assbot: 0 results for 'six words honest man' :
asciilifeform: 'If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.' (richilieu)
adlai: is this udp-over-wot concept "too long to fit in the margin", or have you sketched something about about it somewhere?
mircea_popescu: yes, well, this is more a function of louis than anything.
asciilifeform: adlai: described it at some length in #b-a at various points in the past month; also in a few comments on mircea_popescu's site.
adlai: !s udp wot from:ascii
assbot: 0 results for 'udp wot from:ascii' :
decimation: the interent, as exists, is like tor - in the sense that the group is trying to solve the individual's problem
adlai: !s udp from:ascii
assbot: 0 results for 'udp from:ascii' :
asciilifeform: adlai: must note that it is originally entirely unrelated to mircea_popescu and artifexd's project
decimation: the only real method of escape is layer 1 routing
assbot: 22 results for 'udp' :
mircea_popescu: !s udp from:asciilifeform
assbot: 12 results for 'udp from:asciilifeform' :
adlai: sure, this "ircd" thingy is just the latest in an uncoordinated herd of attempts to attack this same general problem
asciilifeform: adlai: the way i understand it, we have at least three people right here who came up with very similar - but different in important respects - attempted solutions.
adlai . o ( one could say that mpex simulates udp on top of tcp )
mircea_popescu: one could say that, and be uncharitable.
adlai: not enough "quantum"?
asciilifeform: mpex was not the inspiration for my version of the concept, but was the impetus for my coming to believe that it is buildable and worth confessing to people about
adlai: how so?
asciilifeform: proving the point that stateless, medium-agnostic 'connectionless' comms are the only solid way to go.
adlai: I guess it's an example of something which could work equally well over udp, and just happens to use tcp for convenience
asciilifeform: i imagine mpex as consisting of three gurlz, in a box, in shifts, and a console.
mircea_popescu: no, that;'s bitbet.
asciilifeform: console can be connected to tcp or to radio set on valves
asciilifeform: or pigeon cage.
mircea_popescu: the kittens eat pigeons, so... no 1149
asciilifeform: mark twain's cat'n'rat system, lol
adlai: what about mpex needs tcp?
adlai: I guess serving up data
adlai is thinking too much like his code
decimation: asciilifeform: medium could also be morse code, slowed down by a factor of 100, in order to achieve redundancy and low bandwidth
assbot: QRSS - Very Slow CW ... ( )
asciilifeform: decimation: i'd classify all 'one way radio' as a single category for purpose of the discussion re: algorithmic basics.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik no "two way" exists
mircea_popescu: not anymore than true love,anyway.
decimation: yes, except physics categorizes these things naturally, in terms of propagation
asciilifeform: 'one way' in the customary (numbers-station-to-spies) sense
mircea_popescu: just saying, kind of an engineering convention. no point in seeing too much metaphysics behind it
asciilifeform: 'two way' would refer to, e.g., a microwave horn link between two montain top fortresses
asciilifeform: that is, can pass back-n-forth in something resembling 'real time'
decimation: if a receiver is capable of swallowing large power without desensitization, one can listen while one transmits arbitrarily
asciilifeform: in one particular physical system ('passive rfid') one arguably has genuine 'back and forth'
asciilifeform: in the sense of the signal in one direction being a modified, phase-shifted version of the continuous signal in the other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the price for this, of course, is immutability :)
decimation: asciilifeform: like the 'soviet embassy bug':
assbot: The Thing (listening device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
asciilifeform: decimation: the original 'rfid', yes
asciilifeform: !s theremin
assbot: 7 results for 'theremin' :
decimation: lol theremin was a zek when he 'invented' it
asciilifeform thought that this was well-known
decimation: ascii you could go visit it in person apparently
decimation: 'the thing' I mean
asciilifeform: it is kept in a museum, yes.
asciilifeform: or at least a good copy.
asciilifeform: there are some historical documents that suggest the original was destroyed by clumsy inspectors.
asciilifeform: a somewhat younger, livelier usg had a multitude of copies produced, and used in utmost secrecy, almost immediately after the find.
asciilifeform: one must appreciate the kind of technological leap it was, in that period
asciilifeform: at that time, a typical 'bug' was not a small 'pill', easily concealed, transmitting (or recording) audio for weeks or months - the way one thinks of them now
asciilifeform: rather, it was a microphone, often at least as large as, say, a thimble, and a very long wire
asciilifeform: connecting it to either a tape recorder (no smaller, even in the most 'golden toilet' variant, than an auto pistol) - or to an actual set of headphones on a head.
asciilifeform: theremin's 'bug' was, from this point of view, sheerly 'martian' technology.
decimation: yeh it is a clever idea
asciilifeform: in my 'death notebook' there is a design for a purely-chemical 'bug'.
asciilifeform: perhaps when i am hanged, it will be manufactured somewhere.
asciilifeform: ('chemical' in the sense of having no appreciable electrical currents flowing, nor conductors, except in a residual, ionic sense, nor semiconductors, inside.)
asciilifeform: retrieve, develop (as in photograph), extract audio with simple analogue computer.
asciilifeform: point of fact, i think i may have said quite enough just now, such that one may construct it.
asciilifeform: good exercise 'for alert reader.'
decimation: asciilifeform: a moving 'polarid' under a modulated light would do it
decimation: but that would have a current
asciilifeform: moving parts (except in the bare minimum of diaphragm) are a no-no.
ben_vulpes: ah that's rich
asciilifeform: but it is not especially hard to set up a chemical reaction that acts as a travelling 'record needle.'
Naphex: thanks o/
ben_vulpes: no wavefronts are a thing
ben_vulpes: f'n bril, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes gets it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform weren;t you going to bed ?
asciilifeform: was. probably will soon enough
asciilifeform: sent woman to bed already
ben_vulpes: matter of fact listening to you and mircea_popescu and artifexed go on has been educational and illuminating in any number of ways
mircea_popescu: haha you know the rickjles joke ?
ben_vulpes: much obliged
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes o you had fun ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: glad you took some interest in it. take the time later to write some comments?
asciilifeform: rickjles ?
mircea_popescu: "we were going to make it, so i told the wife, go ahead and get started, i'ma grab a paper"
mircea_popescu: perhaps too ny jewish joke.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> "fun" << myeah something like fun
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> i like 'unscannable for', not because of any derping re: 'anonymity', but from sheer delight in the morale hit to enemy << this one in particular
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] and if i am in your list and you in mine the same is preserved by gossipd. << means that if you want everything you say on the record, operate a server for your identity.
ben_vulpes: how to preserve the serenissima log semantics though? if all "chat lines" are wholly deniable, the notion of a public forum in which to do business publically falls apart.
ben_vulpes: !up asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: it only works for us, and sort of right now (?!?!?) because once upon a time assbot relied on the "authedness" of users via the "gribble" service.
ben_vulpes: ;;ident
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] that is an ad-hoc, bug-ridden reimplementation of the blockchain! << yeah but only half
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how does it fall apart ?
ben_vulpes: how does it maintain any sort of relevance, if it can be polluted by...
ben_vulpes: ah i guess the log only makes sense as maintained by someone in a wot
mircea_popescu: take the eutherium short as a good working example.
mircea_popescu: this identity, which may be me unless i deny it, proposes he will sign a contract so and so.
ben_vulpes: by anyone who cares to transmit with a bogus "from"
mircea_popescu: you agree to the terms.
mircea_popescu: the contract is forthwith produced.
mircea_popescu: now it's unrepudiable.
mircea_popescu: no contract appears. well... now you cantell whoever you see me through that wtf is this bs.
mircea_popescu: seems perfect.
ben_vulpes: i was commenting at the point in the discusison at which messages were unsigned. did messages become signed?
mircea_popescu: it is also EXACTLY how it worked,
mircea_popescu: except once the few derps flaked, i had nobody to complain to.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no but recall the thing itself i refer to. a pastebin contract was in fact proferred.
ben_vulpes: forgive the dunce cap hanging over my eyes, but i'm entirely failing to see how this makes for an unrepudiable log of the forum.
mircea_popescu: it does not.
mircea_popescu: it only makes for an unrepudiable log of what matters.
ben_vulpes: "what matters" << to a keyset though, not "to everyone"
mircea_popescu: because "everyone" does not matter.
mircea_popescu: no more overhanging mega-group.
mircea_popescu: people. just and only.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00061581 = 12.9936 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: not a record of all strings sent to "#b-a", but a record of all strings sent to "#b-a" as seen by the lN of "assbot".
mircea_popescu: that exists, for each item in l(N).
mircea_popescu: and for them only.
mircea_popescu finds it funny how the same one stump trips erryone.
ben_vulpes: it's because we're all distracted by the hyperattractor 30d above the horizon and 15 deg port!
mircea_popescu: wait wut
assbot: Cat Chasing Laser Pointer - YouTube ... ( )
ben_vulpes: bad joke; disregard
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] probably quite a few folks. but the thing that distinguishes fermat from wot is that wot needs to be at least quasi-'hot' to really work as intended, imho. << strikes me that a series of "rating" messages should be parsed to build a rating history.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] i won't argue that wot moves ought to be retained for all eternity; but will say that some automatic caching is necessary << wotchains, perchance?
BingoBoingo: * mircea_popescu finds it funny how the same one stump trips erryone. << Had to watchh for a while, but it clicked all at once
mircea_popescu: wots are trivially doublespent. as part of normal functioning.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo o it did ? makes sens enow as a whole ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah. the skeleton in the RFC wasn't as revealing as the conversation was. gossipd putting the emphasis on Relay in IRC
mircea_popescu: maybe you should write a restatement ? curious how it'd read.
BingoBoingo: Needs more time to coalesce on brain. Might be on the order tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: no rush really.
BingoBoingo: The challenge is the edge cases in the discussion really make the thing click.
mircea_popescu: anyway, on contemplation i actually see this as my finest work to date.
mircea_popescu: in any field.
mircea_popescu: this is the only kind of youth one could possibly wish for themselves.
BingoBoingo: And it's the kind of youth one has to be older than 30 to experience.
mircea_popescu: i had the feeling when i was 16 :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00062031 = 9.5218 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14114 @ 0.00062638 = 8.8407 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16874 @ 0.00062849 = 10.6051 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: y'all are fixing irc? better close that copper shoert.
Vexual: what does rfc mean?
Vexual: oh
assbot: NSFW - Ingaduiti-mi sa va impartasesc pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
Vexual: nice
mircea_popescu: that belt type, by the way, with themetal rounds ?
mircea_popescu: absolute best type for belting butts.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18450 @ 0.00063015 = 11.6263 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00062239 = 8.9624 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13388 @ 0.00063097 = 8.4474 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: holy fucking logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6098 @ 0.00064548 = 3.9361 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00064567 = 31.0567 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1609 @ 0.00064648 = 1.0402 BTC [+]
fluffypony: shock and horror
assbot: CoinTerra is in default : Bitcoin ... ( )
fluffypony: such a surprise
fluffypony: who knew
fluffypony: /thread
fluffypony: !up punkman1
fluffypony: punkman1: gribble is still offline
fluffypony: !up punkman
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1548 @ 0.00079219 = 1.2263 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00064648 = 7.7578 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00064585 = 5.1668 BTC [-]
cazalla: damn, how does a woman become such a milf with this shit in her life?
assbot: Broken Nights and Lost Days: Inside World of Severe Autism - YouTube ... ( )
cazalla: !up RagnarDanneskjol
cazalla: well, no longer auth'd so no help to you sorry RagnarDanneskjol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00063763 = 15.0162 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: holy log
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00062183 = 19.5876 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00063719 = 6.2445 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41447 @ 0.00064778 = 26.8485 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22053 @ 0.00065249 = 14.3894 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: trilema is down
assbot: gavinandresen comments on Looking before the Scaling Up Leap - by Gavin Andresen ... ( )
mod6: shit makes me so mad i want to punch two birds in the face:
thestringpuller: Prepare for war boys.
mod6: prepare?
mod6: lol.
thestringpuller: He declared war on us!
thestringpuller: "A minority is opposed"
mod6: Since like 2014.10.22 I've been stabbing derps.
thestringpuller: chyeeeaaauh
mod6: :D
thestringpuller: mod6 run da streetz and gets no sleeep
thestringpuller: MAH NIGGAS WAR READY!
thestringpuller: llololol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00065249 = 8.8739 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: thestringpuller: Last Of A Dying Breed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21997 @ 0.00065316 = 14.3676 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00065363 = 15.8178 BTC [+]
jurov: cue thestringpuller chest thumping in full gear
jurov: someone pls up nubbins`
jurov: i cannot anymore :(
mod6: !up nubbins`
nubbins`: wanted to share this, thought you guys might appreciate
nubbins`: it just pulls news stories from other websites and does blind word replacement on the articles, to make them seem original
mod6: ``Error establishing database connection''
nubbins`: nod guess 3 of us at once is too much
mod6: heh :]
fluffypony: lol nubbins`
fluffypony: "A self-murder bomber pushing a minibus full of explosives killed during slightest 30 people Wednesday morning as cadets collected nearby a military academy in a heart of Yemen’s capital"
fluffypony: "Skydivers burst to reserve before craft crashes"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00065364 = 4.6082 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: Police were called. They contend a 35-year-old Angus, Ont., male was inebriated and incompetent to scrupulously caring for himself.
jurov: "competent to scrupulously care for oneself" lol this is CV material
jurov: "Lovers of all things sly gathered to move on a holiday cheer, tell a few jokes and lift income for cats with no place to call home." indeed
thestringpuller: jurov: haha. not so much cyrus from "The Warriors"
thestringpuller: "CAN YOU SUCKAS COUNT"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00064564 = 13.1711 BTC [-]
TomServo: !up saifedean
saifedean: Good evening, gentlemen, how goes it?
TomServo: 'evening. It goes well, aside from the gribble vacation.
saifedean: word on the street is that the noob ddosing subsided, so i dropped by
thestringpuller: "CAN YOU SUCKAS COUNT"
assbot: HTTP/2.0 - The IETF is Phoning It In - ACM Queue ... ( )
jurov: lots of derp tho
thestringpuller: !up HeySteve
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1850 @ 0.00064498 = 1.1932 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (7703 shares, 1.16 BTC), 7D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (7703 shares, 1.16 BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (7703 shares, 1.16 BTC)
thestringpuller: !l m S.qntr
assbot: Last trade for S.QNTR on MPEX was at 0.00015 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: good morning mr. chairman
mircea_popescu: "Not everyone who wants an immediate confirmation will be able to get it, regardless of how much they pay. If there's more people wanting next-block confirmation than there are slots in the block, it's mathematically guaranteed that people will miss out. As network usage grows, the percentage of unsatisfied users will grow linearly with it."
mircea_popescu: check out the idiocy lol.
mircea_popescu: "i want it" "are you paying for it ?" "no, but i still want it" "because ?" "because i say so, damn it" "this isn't fiat, billy" "fuck you stop opressing me"
thestringpuller: that's a good way to put it
thestringpuller: like a kid having a temper tantrum in a store because mommy won't buy him gummy bears
mircea_popescu: anyway, i kinda enjoy all this acting as if they have an option in the matter.
mircea_popescu really hopes he will actualyl get to rape this crowd.
mircea_popescu: damn it'll be so sweet.
thestringpuller: that's kublai/ghengis khan talk there
thestringpuller: so who declared the war?
thestringpuller: Gavin is provoking war, for what reason?
mircea_popescu: he's just doing what told. "for democracy".
mircea_popescu: whatever mini-nuland is in charge does not understand that there are forces more powerful on the field, who "do not understand how the world works"
thestringpuller: but even so any fork at all needs to be killed immediately. it splits network power and lowers security.
thestringpuller: ideally killing the fork before it's even a thing.
mircea_popescu: i do not see this.
mircea_popescu: the expensive and painful slow roasting of idiots is a very valuable output.
thestringpuller: care to elaborate?
mircea_popescu: their cries of pain and outrage should be preserved for posterity, to teach others.
thestringpuller: benevolent AND merciful
mircea_popescu: the fact that no lord ever wanted whoever he punished to ever die is directly apparent if you look at two things : their artists made hell be eternal torture ; the bodies lay in the gibbet at the gate for much longer than the dude inside survived.
mircea_popescu: so no, if it lasts forever and it's nothing but a hellish cried of the tortured all the better.
mircea_popescu: sadly this won't be possible here, like it's not possible generally, but in spirit.
thestringpuller: i'm visualizing a classroom full of students pointing and laughing at Gavin while he struggles to find emotions and reactions
PeterL: hi
mircea_popescu: how goes.
mircea_popescu: btw, you know scoopbot website is not werk ?
PeterL: yeah, I know, I need to fix it
PeterL: I think my server is blocked from trilema?
mircea_popescu: pm me ip. did it make a ton of requests ?
mircea_popescu: << kid is practically begging to be beaten, they won't oblige.
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 11:41:56; cazalla: damn, how does a woman become such a milf with this shit in her life?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.0006522 = 11.9679 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00064326 = 13.026 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo cazalla here's a pretty good tip for qntra :
mircea_popescu: nejc/bitstamp crew allege that hacker somehow got into their system, stole privkeys for their addresses, AND THEN deleted their copies. magically. they were all online or something, who knows.
assbot: BitBet Stats ... ( )
mircea_popescu: in continuous use from dec 18th.
mircea_popescu: now is the theory here that what, the haxxor is using on bitbet the same address that nejc was using on bitbet prior to the "hack" ? because why ?
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: my pleasure.
thestringpuller: sorry to hear you got the flu asciilifeform
thestringpuller: the joys of slave labor in US eh?
asciilifeform: if i knew how to earn bread without leaving home, i would
asciilifeform: perhaps i ought to attend spam school.
PeterL: my father-in-law earns a living at home in his pajamas, programming
mircea_popescu: "Piketty, some would say, is king. I say Piketty has shown, like Gibbon, what is possible. "
mircea_popescu: is this the french commie ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00065392 = 14.517 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ahhh the fact reddit is so in favour of this hardfork business is so great :D
mircea_popescu: hot damn i hope they go through with it
mod6: tie them to the radiator and grape them in the mouth
fluffypony: what hardfork business?
mircea_popescu: fluffypony but the logs!
fluffypony: it's holiday season :-P
assbot: 0749dddfaecad1445f66 comments on Looking before the Scaling Up Leap - by Gavin Andresen ... ( )
mircea_popescu: fluffypony links for you there, as it happens.
fluffypony: ah ok
assbot: Whitest Kids U Know - I am gonna grape you in the mouth - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: it just pulls news stories from other websites and does blind word replacement on the articles, to make them seem original <<< there's a million of these.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is Taylor Swift
mircea_popescu: "american singer-songwriter and actress"
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: why am i so surprised.
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.000655 = 4.2248 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "The IETF, obviously fearing irrelevance, hastily "discovered" that the HTTP/1.1 protocol needed an update, and tasked a working group with preparing it on an unrealistically short schedule. This ruled out any basis for the new HTTP/2.0 other than the SPDY protocol. With only the most hideous of SPDY's warts removed, and all other attempts at improvement rejected as "not in scope," "too late," or "no consensus," the IE
mircea_popescu: TF can now claim relevance and victory by conceding practically every principle ever held dear in return for the privilege of rubber-stamping Google's initiative."
mircea_popescu: heh. quite.
mircea_popescu: as if irrelevance can ever be averted by this sort of thing.
mircea_popescu: it's like making dogs blind to your fear by shaking uncontrollably.
mircea_popescu: jurov: lots of derp tho << i kinda liked his piece tbh.
jurov: ncfaci meant the bits where he promoted self-signed certs
mircea_popescu: are they bad ?
mircea_popescu: ;;ud ncfaci
jurov: lol that's just keyfart
asciilifeform: if using the ssl crock of shit at all, being your own signing authority (instead of swallowing the master key bullshit and extortionary fees of the 'authorities') is the only way to go
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is what i thought too.
asciilifeform: elementarily true
mircea_popescu: after all "self-signed" cert can be edged into proper gpg signed matter, and it's all good.
asciilifeform: and if a 'luser' won't read or can't remember the genuine fingerprint, and won't write it down, whatever - he has no business owning computer
mircea_popescu: obviously "one has no way of knowing" if a self signed cert is good. but if there's also a .asc on the server... i'd say it's a damned sight better than "Verizon certifies"
asciilifeform: in case anyone needs to be reminded of this - ssl remains a crock of shit - as in, the entire protocol stack is porous and comically maldesigned
mircea_popescu: no contest.
mircea_popescu: jurov im curious to hear the self signed cert reasoning tbh.
asciilifeform: the traditional party line is 'oh noez you'll be mitm-ed if your browser doesn't refuse self-signed'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00064884 = 1.4923 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: sure, but i has a high regard of jurov.
asciilifeform: jurov: what did you have in mind ?
kakobrekla: unfortunately things people call browsers dont like to swallow self signed.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this is because the browsers are usg projects.
asciilifeform: in certain cases, directly
assbot: Breaking: 12 Killed In French ISLAMIC Terror Attack. The REAL Story… ... ( )
mircea_popescu: IT CAN NOT BE TERRORISM!!!
jurov: i believe self-signed certs are usable only for private use
jurov: and even they they are PITA
kakobrekla: yes they are so cause browsers.
jurov: so they are not "almost zero cost"
mircea_popescu: jurov what's private use ?
mircea_popescu: allah hates comedy. who knew.
jurov: inside a company for example
asciilifeform: yes, usg succeeded in setting up the situation where every luserplebe's browser will ring bells, flash lights, if a cert didn't come with a hitler signature
asciilifeform: some of the newer browsers, iirc, won't even give him the option of swallowing
jurov: i don't contest that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they also managed this situation where all the shit online carries a "5000 derps that don't really exist LIKE THIS"
mircea_popescu: because yes, absolutely, moar democracy.
asciilifeform: demoocracy aha.
mircea_popescu: jurov so you mean, it only works for sessions where the user knows/trusts the source, as opposed to whatever, random drive-by publishing ?
mircea_popescu: would work for a bank, wouldn't work for a newspaper sort of thing ?
jurov: i'm looking forward how are they going to solve it in libressl, if ever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.000656 = 10.9552 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: i don't see how every time i'm accessing anything via https/smtps i'm going to think whether this is the right cert
jurov: tools like surl don't save it like ssh
jurov: *curl
mircea_popescu: jurov my browser allows me to save cert for later ?
mircea_popescu: checks against it as if it were verizon'd, no difference
mircea_popescu: is this minority behaviour ?
jurov: i am not talking about browser, that's lost cause
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> now is the theory here that what, the haxxor is using on bitbet the same address that nejc was using on bitbet prior to the "hack" ? because why ? << I don't see any new bets after the 4th. COuld just be a derp who wanted to "win" to his Bitstamp deposit address?
mircea_popescu: curl similarily imports certs ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wasn't the actual breach prior to the 4th ?
mircea_popescu: as opposed to announcement thereof ?
jurov: it annoys me to no end when i install self-signed cert and even if i try to distribute it between machines, some dam curl-like tool breaks
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp's line is the 4th and they didn't announce before then. so if it was earlier still time for customers to get fucked pertending deposit addressses are theirs.
jurov: also, email clients. it was *not* possible to make all them work with self-signed cert
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i guess that works out then, prolly a customer.
jurov: it's just all lost cause. self-signed certs yes, but only after ssl/tls is ditched.
mircea_popescu: jurov well ok, by and large for any expectation it won't be possible to make "all" work. because anyone can anything, and well...
mircea_popescu: but i see whatcha mean. "not politically favoured, so not as well ironed out, so harder to use"
jurov: it's much easier with ssh for example
mircea_popescu: well yes, partly because ssh has no verizon.
mircea_popescu: you gotta put your key in
mircea_popescu: whodda thought, you know, that NOT invoving an us company is better.
assbot: Gunmen Kill 12, Wound 7 At French Magazine HQ - Slashdot ... ( )
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: The atlantic doesn't know you exist
assbot: Why Are So Few Black People Using Bitcoin? - The Atlantic ... ( )
assbot: The Atlantic: Why Are So Few Black People Using Bitcoin?
BingoBoingo: pete suggested: "Maybe they are better at keeping it on the down low".
mircea_popescu: what atlantic really means is "why are there so few black scammers in bitcoin, because that's all we know about anyway". and the reason couldn't possibly be "because they're just more honest than whitey"
mircea_popescu: tis true.
thestringpuller: except for Lamar
thestringpuller: of Pheeva
thestringpuller: pretty sure he's taking bitpay cock up da butt knowing the implications
mircea_popescu: you keep going. you'll run out before i'm done enumerating pasty ass.
thestringpuller: hahaha! i thought only black people used "pasty white person" phrasing
mircea_popescu: im also black
thestringpuller: gotta love pasty white girls who are afraid of the sun like vampires tho ;)
mircea_popescu: in my spare time.
thestringpuller: MP is og
mircea_popescu: anyway, i have no problem with dudes going "oh, blacks do all teh crime!!!" if that's what they believe, and start running off stats about it. big whoop. but it's funny how nobody happens to fucking noticing the OTHER stats.
thestringpuller: mir-dizzle to the popes-rizzle
mircea_popescu: "black on black violence in the ghetto is so and so!!1". fine. and white on white scamming in bitcoin is how ?
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
asciilifeform: i'm told that there is - somewhat lower-tech - traditional 'black on black' sc4mz0r1ng - 'numbers games' run in back alleys, etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. the shit run by jews in 1935.
asciilifeform: the very same
mircea_popescu: and by italians in 1955.
mircea_popescu: probably on the same damned exact stones.
asciilifeform: quite likely.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i'm told that there is - somewhat lower-tech - traditional 'black on black' sc4mz0r1ng - 'numbers games' run in back alleys, etc. << Replaced by same game with different operator "Lottery"
mircea_popescu: i went to school in this huge, what you'd call super-preppy thing.
mircea_popescu: and i have this distinct memory of a kid being pissed of at some chick, and going to carve "X is a whore" in the wall
mircea_popescu: except... there was that ALREADY carved there. easily 50 years old.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the interesting thing is that usg has not succeeded in entirely displacing the native, ethnic 'lotteries'
mircea_popescu: same name, same exact string.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski "Their habitual attacks on forums is usually" << are.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1273 @ 0.00079999 = 1.0184 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: "But what of it? How does this effect you? Well, it effects" affects you. afect is another name for sentiment. to affect is to cause an effect upon something. to effect, confusingly enough, is to cause the execution of something. so, you effect legislation, and that legislation affects people.
saifedean: hai there, mp, thanks for the voice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00065626 = 9.7126 BTC [+]
assbot: Our temporary website didn’t feel quite like home - so we gave it a little refresh while we work on restoring full services.
mircea_popescu: "Keep up the good work!"
kakobrekla: temp site looking good!
TomServo: very nice shade of green!
kakobrekla: all green, nicely done. Safe choice of colors.
mircea_popescu: when are they bringing the fractional reserve back up ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22202 @ 0.00065626 = 14.5703 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'got fish? nope, this is the meat counter. fish is what they don't have at the fish counter.'
mod6: kakobrekla: lol!
kakobrekla: as safe as their hot wallet
asciilifeform reread last night's thread, and grasped mircea_popescu deniable-transmissions scheme.
mircea_popescu: better on 2nd pass huh ?
asciilifeform: also better when awake
mircea_popescu: saifedean answered.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47600 @ 0.00063408 = 30.1822 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: by the way, requiem for a dream. good film.
asciilifeform saw, some years ago, liked
kakobrekla: btw bitstamp is moving operations to us (prolly sf).
kakobrekla: you heard it here phirst.
mike_c: interesting. they must be retaining UK incorporation, no? I would think it would be legal shitstorm otherwise.
kakobrekla: i dont think so but dont have the details.
mike_c: they should come to NYC. very bitcoin friendly. just drop all your coins off at lawsky's office on the way into town.
BingoBoingo: Mebbe they think legal shitstorm is to their benefit for filing bankruptcy?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla so they can "cover" by being bought.
mircea_popescu: something tells me they have nfi how to write a term sheet, and there's about 50-50 odds of the financer backing out.
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : this won't end well.
mircea_popescu: watch how in a few short months it won't be possible to buy bitcoin at any price.
mircea_popescu: i guess ima have to bring an exchange online willy-nilly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00065305 = 14.1712 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: "Attacks cell walls" You know just what penicillin and the rest of the beta-lactams do:
assbot: Antibiotic Breakthrough Ends 25-Year Discovery Drought - Bloomberg ... ( )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7345 @ 0.00024059 = 1.7671 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22000 @ 0.00023561 = 5.1834 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00063652 = 19.2229 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00062815 = 9.8934 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15093 @ 0.0002001 = 3.0201 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: wai wat, mircea_popescu with an exchange ?!
asciilifeform will fly to conf3 on a pig, if this happens
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform will fly to conf3 on a pig, if this happens << The Fairchild "WartHog"???
artifexd: mircea_popescu: Regarding gossipd, do you have any preference for the data flowing over the wire as binary or text?
artifexd: Binary would mean shorter messages because fingerprint a would only take up 20 bytes (instead of 40) and keys would not have to be armored. Text would make the flow easier to read/debug but the data would necessarily take up more space.
jurov: artifecd did you research some existing ideas?
assbot: twisted.protocols.amp : API documentation ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00062034 = 2.7295 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24353 @ 0.00065628 = 15.9824 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: mircea_popescu: HOWEVER. one of those addresses is <<< isn't this just a case of someone using their bitstamp deposit address for bitbet payouts, even kakobrekla mentioned this
assbot: BitBet Stats ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 05-01-2015 15:10:48; kakobrekla: im now getting "my output address is bitstamp hot wallet" emails from bitbet users.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.00065933 = 15.3624 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40570 @ 0.0006355 = 25.7822 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45530 @ 0.00061195 = 27.8621 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00061774 = 13.8992 BTC [+]
cazalla: BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp's line is the 4th and they didn't announce before then. so if it was earlier still time for customers to get fucked pertending deposit addressses are theirs. <<< and there is still the issue of what amount of coins will not honoured by bitstamp after the annoucement
asciilifeform: artifexd: text?! wtf
asciilifeform: jurov: and what is that gnarly pythonism.
asciilifeform wonders if he woke up in some alternate universe #b-a full of www-dev folks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00065025 = 21.6533 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00066312 = 7.5596 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: artifexd it's always encrypted, so what do you mean text ?
assbot: Lawmaker’s Facebook rant threatens media for “unauthorized” use of his name | Ars Technica ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.000664 = 3.32 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9276 @ 0.000664 = 6.1593 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: "mircea_popescu:i must say, incidentally, i thoroughly enjoyed this discussion." // so did I, thanks for the priceless logs
mircea_popescu: cazalla seems so, yes.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller not bad. invite them over.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic cool!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8224 @ 0.00065749 = 5.4072 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: perhaps of broad interest seeing the fork war context.
assbot: Oil theory pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: last para at any rate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29650 @ 0.00066537 = 19.7282 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Let them have scrip, will be good enough for them...' << usd is not already scrip ?
asciilifeform: admittedly, a peculiar kind of scrip, for which one can get certain things overseas (for the time being)
asciilifeform: at some point, usd will no longer be a 'convertible' unit. completing its transition to equivalent of the soviet ruble.
asciilifeform: really the definition, if there is one, of 'scrip.'
asciilifeform: just like you can't spend subway tokens outside of the subway.
mike_c: ^ it is also illegal to sell them.. such bullshit.
undata: "and then the ashes of their apps were all that remained"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'The notion that gold supply does not increase a lot is predicated on obsolete technology. Gold supply would increase quite a lot, and in really harmful ways involving cyanide, if it seriously became monetized.' << iirc, cyanidation was SOP since 1890s.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now, harmful methods involving - neutrons? yes.
mircea_popescu: just, lemme fish this out
assbot: Hai sa facem si noi de-astea pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: that's one of those large excavators
mircea_popescu: THAT was not sop in 1890s
asciilifeform: butugychag rennaissance is inevitable anyway
asciilifeform: quite a few increasingly scarce strategic minerals, all across mendeleev table.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13168 @ 0.00066552 = 8.7636 BTC [+] {2}
undata: asciilifeform: seems like an economic meltdown would also decrease the demand for those for new iPhones
asciilifeform: for pNohes - down. for bolometers used in heat-seeking rocket - up.
asciilifeform: it's an elementary 'who at this table starves last' situation
BingoBoingo: I'm pretty sure pNohe sellers could find a way to make resistive touchscreens fashionable again.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: In is not the only scarce mineral.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Currency generally is in the hands of a selected few, this situation where every man woman and child holds some is an exception, and I suspect coming to an end.' << i recall being shown, as a boy, an 1890s ru coin that 'would feed a family for a month!111!!'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this kind of thing worked in 'tribal' structure, where most folks are reasonably 'close to the soil' and grow/kill the necessities of life personally. i suppose it also works in a concentration camp - though, iirc, these also typically have a kind of scrip and so aren't entirely free of currency.
mircea_popescu: it will work fine in the world of the future
mircea_popescu: independence is predicated on something other than being a redditor.
asciilifeform: i'd guess more of a #2 than 1
asciilifeform: does 'reddit' really differ in any fundamental way, as a basic urban treadmill, from 1700s english gin, or roman circuses ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4226 @ 0.00065749 = 2.7786 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Only really differs in that some outside idiots consider things that emerge from there as worthy of consideration as virtue, instead of vice as in the case of English gin.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] o look, 1k lines by 4 am. ben_vulpes will so much love this. << lord am i
ben_vulpes: 100% serious
assbot: The White House on Charlie Hebdo, Then and Now - Hit & Run : ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 19:19:35; mircea_popescu: chetty: II 5. France took Algeria, hoping for a country to eat cassoulet and instead France is now eating couscous. << this is what happens when small penis messes with big penis.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Naturally. I still wait for California's Seirra Nevada range to be inverted in the quest for rare minerals and to create H2O reservoir capacity to sustain the prisons and work farms.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00062969 = 2.8966 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm expecting to end up in an inca-style, rather than soviet-style, camp
ben_vulpes: !up mats
ben_vulpes: wb mats
asciilifeform: that is, there is a fence to keep folks from leaving; they are left to fend for selves for food and water within the confines; and if the weekly quota of $metal is not brought to the gates in timely manner, there are public educaxecutions
asciilifeform: perhaps we should refer to this as 'belgian' method
BingoBoingo: Belgian method sounds about right.
BingoBoingo: Leopold, that man had ideas.
asciilifeform: what ideas. spain was there long first.
ben_vulpes: someone up mats plz
BingoBoingo: Leopold tried on a harsher continent.
asciilifeform: and the basic notion of working folks to death in a mine - is ancient.
BingoBoingo: !up mats
ben_vulpes: wait are we actually using altgribble for auth now?
BingoBoingo: Leopold's flavor also came with an exit strategy.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I've just stayed connected.
ben_vulpes: me too.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: everything comes with 'exit strategy'
asciilifeform: just not necessarily the one you might like
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu and kakobrekla have been voicing folks by hand.
ben_vulpes: yeah but how come BingoBoingo gets to !up and not me
ben_vulpes stomps foot petulantly
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes cause he kept an uninterrupted connection and assbot still sees him
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Maybe your connection just needs to be less wonh
ben_vulpes: when did assbot come back?
ben_vulpes: ;;ident
ben_vulpes: you know what?
asciilifeform: assbot, afaik, never died
ben_vulpes: i don't actually care.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Only really differs in that some outside idiots consider things that emerge from there as worthy of consideration as virtue, instead of vice as in the case of English gin. <<< there;'s tons of "gin as virtue" songs and oral liuterature.
asciilifeform: it's simply rudderless w/out gribble
ben_vulpes: derp, i meant gribble.
mircea_popescu: it was not preserved in writing because the mps of the time did not see itworthy of their wot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00066554 = 10.1828 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'work is the curse of the drinking class' !
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> wait are we actually using altgribble for auth now? << no.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc, a good bit of that stuff -was- preserved in writing - of a kind. e.g., 'broadside ballads'
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] hitler does know considerably more under the all-signed scenario than alternative. << your sought "morale hit"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i did, later, grasp mircea_popescu's deniable-transmission algo
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes you can speak cause you have ops not cause authed with gribble and assbot.
kakobrekla: and you cant !up, but you can +voice
ben_vulpes: confession time, i know nothing about the arcana of irc modes
mircea_popescu: join the club.
ben_vulpes: gossipd when
mircea_popescu: as soon as artifexd gets exactly drunk enough ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: trick is that two directly-connected cells may as well be exchanging signed msgs. but relayed msgs (in, e.g., cells a -> b -> c, from a to c) are 'gossip' - that is, 'deniable.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform precisely
ben_vulpes: clever, neh?
ben_vulpes: i imagine we'll all be running our own cells initially.
mircea_popescu: permanently ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how do you propose to use the hypothetical gizmo without running a cell ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose once webchat is enabled you could use that.
ben_vulpes: how does someone relay a message to a cell and from a cell to another cell?
mircea_popescu: dude just read it first lol;
mircea_popescu: ask after.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: manually configured peers
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: do read mircea_popescu's article, it is very concise.
ben_vulpes: forgive the extremely poorly articulated comment.
ben_vulpes: i imagine a steady-state future where people operate gossipd cells in much the same way that ircd's are operated on fleanode.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: rather more like bitcoin - in that you introduce messages into the net by loading them into your own cell
asciilifeform: which then propagates to your peers
assbot: Broadcast Transaction - ... ( )
asciilifeform: (i forget if this was mircea_popescu's terminology in the original article, or not)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha but you cannot really have this, unless you - in particular - or one of your peers - wants to create a public toilet for spam and give it peerage
ben_vulpes: it *will* happen.
ben_vulpes: the structure of the thing implies many wots.
asciilifeform: if one carries on with such, may find himself on a rather smaller and lonelier gossipnet
asciilifeform: than before.
ben_vulpes: doubtful, see the ever prolix reddit.
asciilifeform: incidentally i don't recall if any of you lot suggested this, but: max-graph-degrees knob.
asciilifeform: for when you want a 'louder', 'more new blood' sort of experience - crank clockwise.
asciilifeform: for the radio aficionados among us, let's call it 'squelch'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's no value in imposing values for poeople.
mircea_popescu: just as long as i can isolate the redditd from my machine, the people who want to be in there are more then welcome to their own choices.
mircea_popescu: freedom is this, not something else.
ben_vulpes: i'm not suggesting any values be forced on anyone.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought it's implicit in the spec, in the "receiver decides if to relay" : you can configure a client to pass, to user or other clients, whatever you wish
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in a way, it is. but sort of left as an exercise.
mircea_popescu: yea. well honestly most everything is so left.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes granted. i just mean... so they do,more power to em.
ben_vulpes intends to run an open relay node - openly disclosed as such for those in the mood to twiddle knobs
ben_vulpes: cell, excuse me.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "hashname" << have ye unleashed the valkyrie on reddit?
mircea_popescu: i dunno who it is
mircea_popescu: but some youthful enthusiast,i got a few offline pms.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00066554 = 4.2927 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00066593 = 8.2575 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: !up tsp_2
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4331 @ 0.00064543 = 2.7954 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1393 @ 0.00081683 = 1.1378 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00064543 = 7.8742 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: sooo... apparently "text" mysql blobs are limited to 65535 characters ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: << perhaps should be a separate article ?
assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: it is incredible just how broken wordpress is.
assbot: Muslim Gangs Terrorize 55 Neighborhoods, Police Powerless | The Daily Caller ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ mega-lol!
asciilifeform: when does the actual gov of se (northern caliphate) send replacement embassy to washington.
BingoBoingo: Question is will they ever care to.
asciilifeform: !s yi yi zhi yi
assbot: 13 results for 'yi yi zhi yi' :
asciilifeform: ^ alternate hypothesis
BingoBoingo: In that case embassy lives in the shadows
asciilifeform: very simple formula: the 'barbarians' are in fact employees of the swedish (french, british, american - each case) government, aka usg, in good standing.
asciilifeform: their purpose is to terrorize the native population, for a variety of useful purposes (bolster seekoority state; keep real estate prices in less-afflicted zones high; etc)
asciilifeform: in many cases these folks are literally 'employed' to create chaos - as in, they get a pension, in return for... doing just that
asciilifeform: but this is a subject covered in painstaking detail in many other places.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is not the best time to bring up the barbecuran.
mircea_popescu: isn't it sort-of strange how this works ?
asciilifeform: only if mircea_popescu wants to test the turrets.
asciilifeform: they do need occasional testing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00064046 = 10.4395 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: more's the point : ever wonder how these dudes pick ?
assbot: Varnish Error 503 Service Unavailable ... ( )
asciilifeform: that was fast.
mircea_popescu: i can see it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9805 @ 0.00065157 = 6.3886 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, which kind of evil sand niggers were these ? the irani like or the saudi like ?
asciilifeform: not, afaik, specified
mircea_popescu: only an important point when discussing which side to give arms to ?
asciilifeform: sunni is well-funded iirc.
mircea_popescu: they'reall well funded.
mircea_popescu: heck, they're better funded than wasps.
asciilifeform: shia could use a better operating system.
cazalla: damn, the shooters in France don't fucking hesitate, down under it took almost 24 hours for the shooter to fire off a round
assbot: Charlie Hebdo magazine police officer shot in head - CLOSE UP! - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00065157 = 5.7338 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is just after president hollande suggests pulling out of ru sanctions thing
mircea_popescu: so it is sunni then
asciilifeform: then or generic theatre.
mircea_popescu: kinda pleasant to watch europe from distance.
mircea_popescu: ovbiously, the result of this is not concentration camps for all muslims indiscriminately, because... well...
mircea_popescu: "can't generalize".
decimation: right, becuase all muslims are peaceful
mircea_popescu: Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Sunni Islam's leading centre of learning, called the attack "criminal" and said "Islam denounces any violence".
mircea_popescu: so it WAS sunni.
decimation: so it seems to me that this 'cell' topology is vulnerable in the sense that it is obvious who is relaying packets
decimation: third parties (required for routing packets) would know whose necks to squeeze
asciilifeform: decimation: you can't decrypt a single packet until a cell peers you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3650 @ 0.00064096 = 2.3395 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation the graph is very flat, with 100s of connections. you will have to squeeze a large fraction to disrupt anything.
decimation: asciilifeform: right, but the intervening routers know the ip addresses of the cells
asciilifeform: decimation: or did you simply mean the proverbial future of the gasenwagen, where the mere act of transmitting cryptostrange is a gassing offense
mircea_popescu: only of the closest
decimation: it's true that if the network can be scaled this is less of a concern
asciilifeform: decimation: of some cells. no info on who they belong to (what keys), who the peers are, etc
decimation: it would be beneficial if nodes could connect via multiple 'ports' (vpns, etc)
asciilifeform: decimation: if you use udp, like i proposed, you can even have the mindfuck of a 'bar-bell shaped' cell - a 'multihomed' machine receives on one ip and transmits on another
asciilifeform: the receiver is, to anyone lacking a peerage key, just a black hole.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this works on tcp too
decimation: asciilifeform: indeed. perhaps even hundreds of connections
mircea_popescu: decimation what difference does the port make.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope. does not work on tcp.
asciilifeform: because tcp establishes a connection
mircea_popescu: receiving on one ip and sending on another ? sure, why niot.
asciilifeform: that - yes
asciilifeform: but the receiver being indistinguishable from an empty wall plug - no.
decimation: mircea_popescu: receiving on one ip and rxing' on another is what I'm calling a 'port'
mircea_popescu: try the experiment, send handskakes to random hosts on port 1337
mircea_popescu: plenty answer.
mircea_popescu: what of it.
asciilifeform: call it a goldbox.
mircea_popescu: decimation ah i thought you meant specifically :x
asciilifeform: that's what the 'phreak' version (bridge of two telephone lines) was.
decimation: well, there's also the thought of puttint it all on tcp port 80 and putting fake http headers
mircea_popescu: Le troisième homme recherché, âgé de 18 ans, s'est rendu dans la nuit au commissariat de Charleville-Mézières, dans les Ardennes.
mircea_popescu: one surrendered.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20266 @ 0.00065389 = 13.2517 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: decimation really, this entire anonimity thing is moot. what exactly is going to happen ?
mircea_popescu: people still run torrents to this day.
asciilifeform: that part is just a bonus.
decimation: might as well wear a mustache while wearing fake glasses
mircea_popescu: "Selon le procureur, deux policiers ont également étés tués par les assaillants. L'un, le brigadier Franck Brinsolaro, du Service de la protection (SDLP, ex-SPHP) était chargé de la sécurité de Charb, selon des sources syndicales policières. L'autre, Ahmed Merabet, a été tué à l'extérieur, alors que les assaillants prenaient la fuite."
mircea_popescu: check it out,they killed another muslim guy. is this allowed ?!
decimation: !up pete_dushenski
decimation: !up decimation
decimation: we are in jungle mode
pete_dushenski: hm so it seems
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu that is/are correction, where was that from? i couldn't place it
assbot: Thank Your Lucky Trolls | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: a merci!
pete_dushenski: corrigé!
assbot: Some people can retire and some people can’t: A story about carrots. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
assbot: It’s called the Soviet-HARVARD illusion for a reason and that reason is Joshua Greene. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the russian guy's wrong in pretty much all the particulars. they ran into tons of police.
assbot: Il est 11h30, deux hommes tirent «en rafale» dans «Charlie Hebdo» - Libération ... ( )
asciilifeform was not there and did not count the police.
mircea_popescu: «face aux préjugés, l'importance de se réunir» commie president is at least retarded.
mircea_popescu: hey, prejudice exists specifically because you're "reunited".
asciilifeform: 'Here is a question for Minister Stoltenberg: Do appeals to (and enforcement of) tolerance make repeats of such incidents more frequent or less frequent, and, if so, why?' (old orlov article, )
assbot: ClubOrlov: Politics of the Unconscious ... ( )
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood. do appeals to "ignore" the crying child rather than smack him over the head make crying children less common or more common ?
pete_dushenski: hey, prejudice exists specifically because you're "reunited". << heh. i made a similar point in the soviet-harvard article
pete_dushenski: basically, pluralistic/cosmopolitan cities are fashions, not some morally superior imperative
mircea_popescu: who's joshua greene \again ?
pete_dushenski: they can work, but not by default
mircea_popescu: that's a good point.
pete_dushenski: "Professor of Psychology and Director of the Moral Cognition Lab at Harvard University"
mircea_popescu: also, they can not work without well organised oppression.
mircea_popescu: heh mkay.
asciilifeform: see turkish example for how.
pete_dushenski: sure, the point being that there are an infinite number of ways they cannot work, and a few that they can
pete_dushenski: but the solutions involve, yes, strong leadership
pete_dushenski: and also modification of the physical environment
mircea_popescu: i really like these "academics" whose contribution to the world consists on "this model is supported by the fact that brain area activation"
mircea_popescu: phrenology 2.0
pete_dushenski: not, as greene suggests, with typical progressive socialist lenses, "improving out thinking"
mircea_popescu: at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photographic cpus with tomograph units
mircea_popescu: photographing*
pete_dushenski: lol "the picture tells us..."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'brain activation' folks are simply a somewhat more 'photogenic' version of the rest of usg academia, where virtually every physical science 'result', almost without exception, concerns some spurious correlation of this and that
pete_dushenski: they're far better served "reading" mattise than body scans
asciilifeform: at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photograph << actually.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess.
mircea_popescu: i get really indignant when marketeers try to sell spuriousness,
mircea_popescu: but in fact all of academia does it, for much more money.
pete_dushenski: and for "les prix"
pete_dushenski: like kim jong un's generals
asciilifeform: i make regular trips to my university maths/physical sciences library. there is a substantial comp-sci/discretes section there. i pull out, seriously, a book, one in three, random page - a graph. for almost precisely this, the comparison between the warm and the soft.
mircea_popescu: nah, themarketing cocksuckers give themselves tons of trophies
mircea_popescu: it's like porn minus the lube, seriously.
asciilifeform: great heuristic for what not to bother flipping through, but very frustrating re: how much space these take up on the shelves.
pete_dushenski: sounds... burny
asciilifeform: ('graph' of the microshit office, 'comparison of efficiencies', vs graph theoretic kind)
mircea_popescu: this discussion is reminding mircea_popescu to go check on the "oh, we are economists, looking before we leap, there's a small minority disagreeing" crowd
mircea_popescu: lmao -dev is almost as retarded as the forum by now.
mircea_popescu: dgenr8how about using the world's biggest bloom filter to prevent address reuse? it wouldn't add much to storage requirements
mircea_popescu: blockbitsCan't wait until we have 20MB blocks. I've developed a easy to use web front-end for people to upload files to the blockchain, using scriptsigs to store data. they can retrieve files by simply pasting any TX. I've put aside a few hundreds thousand dollars to pay mining pools to mine my non-standard tx's for free. I was hoping we can increase the block size to 200MB... please make it as big as possible, my dat
mircea_popescu: a storage busin
pete_dushenski: maybe we should also make mining free, and use the scrypt fairness algorithm
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( )
pete_dushenski: because that's what profit is for, reinvestment
pete_dushenski: ... in diversity
BingoBoingo: Seriously though what is this forced prevention of address reuse bullshit. Spz I recieve at address, spend from and input there, happen to recieve there again... Anything that prevents spending the later balances recieved is an attack.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, gavin hasn't been on #bitcoin-dev in the past two weeks, and was mentioned maybe a coupla times in the interval.
mircea_popescu: methinks the fake foundation derps are having a serious palatial moment these days.
BingoBoingo: bitcoin-dev exists better as a mailing list anyways.
pete_dushenski: palatial moment?
BingoBoingo: !up ziishu
mircea_popescu: curious what shall come out of this.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: You know from that movie plot Mp mposted to trilema
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you know when the retarded horse discovers that the pigs are actually having fun in the pig room ?
ziishu: greetings, any change of a bb wager for blockchain hardfork
ziishu: chance*
mircea_popescu: why not ? spec it.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i see i have some reading to catch up on :)
assbot: The idea for a great film... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
ziishu: lazy :) I was just thinking it would be a good idea
mircea_popescu: sure lol.
mircea_popescu reads bb's link to see what this is!
mircea_popescu: oh. that also works lol.
pete_dushenski: i actually read that one!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Emperor Eunuch and the Barbarians
pete_dushenski thinks mp and bb are thinking of different articles
mircea_popescu: but i was thinking more of the moment when the color revolutionaries discxover their leader is really a sort of adonis.
BingoBoingo: That one's just my default thought when MP says palace or palatial, because we all know MP prefers a bunch of apartments spread around town to a single palace. Decentralize all of the residence!!!
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i was refering to animal farm.
mircea_popescu: you know when the "guard of the revolution" discovers that their supreme leader isn't really into the revolution at all ? that thing.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu aha yes
mircea_popescu: palatial moment. when the derps in -dev discover that well... gavin isn't really into bitcoin.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: painful times.
pete_dushenski: i only saw the play. and while it was a splendid rendition, it was also some time ago. but i gets it nao!
pete_dushenski: anways, i must sadly depart. good evening to all!
mircea_popescu: if you've seen american century x, there's that moment when norton's character finds out the old dude was really in prison for fraud.
BingoBoingo: And yet... the noise does not abate, but grows, and as it grows there's silence growing in the great hall too, under the marble arches, over the limpid pools. The emperor bids his guests eat, but they swallow knots, he bids them merry, but the one courtly concubine that starts to talk, trying to tell a joke, runs hoarse. And then, a centurion busts in, a different sort of man. Rugged, bearded, covered in soot and dried blood, he
BingoBoingo: screams that the West gate fell, and this is the last hour.
mircea_popescu: ahh, gripping huh.
BingoBoingo: Basically the story of everyone finding about Roger Ver's firecrackers and Uncle Shrem's bong.
mircea_popescu: well, i dunno how many people were seriously taking ver for some sort of leader.
mircea_popescu: maybe, i guess.
BingoBoingo: I dun imagine too many people of the kind in a position to support a leader. Still hurts when Ver blows his credibility on Gox's final days giving the scammer crowd room to pretend ther are Bitcoin 'Murica old hands.
mircea_popescu: is a point.
BingoBoingo: I mean fucking Jared Kenna having a renaissance and Homero Garza stepping in fresh off of ripping some New England mountain towns for WiFi?
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
PeterL: thanks
BingoBoingo: I mean even matonis seems kind of repentant about getting hooked into playing with Vessenes
BingoBoingo: !up WolfGoethe
WolfGoethe: hello
BingoBoingo: Hello. Any thoughts on events that have transpired since your last visit?
WolfGoethe: events?
WolfGoethe: the dropping of the price?
PeterL: when was your last visit?
WolfGoethe: month or two ago
BingoBoingo: Well, that or ButtStamp. Or any number of things.
WolfGoethe: no idea about bitstamp or paycoin
WolfGoethe: i have been pondering the possiblity of banker meddling in the bitcoin price
BingoBoingo: Well, dollars are cheap
BingoBoingo: "Buy high, sell low" works for oil
WolfGoethe: clearly they are attacking gold and silver desperate to keep the dollar high, they attacked the russian economy by working with opec to lower oil prices
mircea_popescu: i always thought WolfGoethe = vexual
WolfGoethe: not too far out of scope to see them messing with bitcoin just to keep the lid on how worthless the dollar is
BingoBoingo: Why work with all of Opec when you can just deal with the House of Saud's gerontocracy and that rogue state of North Dakota?
PeterL: who is "them"?
WolfGoethe: also if Russia answered their attack with chinese help we could very easily have $1,000,000 bitcoin in a month
mircea_popescu: PeterL the lizard tribe doh.
mircea_popescu: WolfGoethe no because captain planet would intervene.
WolfGoethe: the house of Saud is a completely controlled puppet government yes
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The reptilians. The DDoS people ruined the lizard word like all marketers do.
BingoBoingo: WolfGoethe: Nah, it is just old.
mircea_popescu: i think the reptilians are just a ruse.
mircea_popescu: i mean sure, they did wtc, but what've they done for us since ?
WolfGoethe: i do not want to get into the spiritual stuff, as that is way to deep for most folks
BingoBoingo: Patriot act?
WolfGoethe: clearly all this has spiritual roots, only an intergenrational intelligence and master arcitect could have perverted everything 180 degrees
mircea_popescu: the meta dougornay ?!
mircea_popescu: (it only rhymes with nowai because it's true)
WolfGoethe: i really think bitcoin could spike to a million bucks if Putin worked with China to answer the us economic attack. putin could just say he refuses to pay back their loans because of the sanctions and he could ask china to call in their us debt... the fed could just print cash to buy it up... but if china sold that debt to foreign governments... the fed could NOT print foreign currency.. so... overnight the dollar would collapse... not a shot
WolfGoethe: fired
WolfGoethe: Putin doesn;t wanna go there tho. he is sitting back
BingoBoingo: WolfGoethe: Why would they fire though before USMS "auctions" the last silk road parcel.
mircea_popescu: it all depends on cuba
WolfGoethe: cuba sold putin out, the idiots... they will get a color revolution soon. the moment fidel dies
mircea_popescu: color red ?
WolfGoethe: the usa wants to hit russia and china first with a nuke attack before they get their mutual defense up
BingoBoingo: No entirely right. Obama surrendered to Raoul Castro.
WolfGoethe: obama surrendered???
BingoBoingo: To Cuba.
WolfGoethe: what? are you being sarcastic?
BingoBoingo: Why would USSA. USSA first strike would require just about all of the H-bombs that still work.
BingoBoingo: Not at all.
assbot: Blame Canada - South Park: Bigger Longer & Uncut (3/9) Movie CLIP (1999) HD - YouTube ... ( )
WolfGoethe: the usa mvoed in because cuba and russia were getting to close. putin foragev 32 billion bucks of cuba debt.. and wanted a prescense on the island
WolfGoethe: this was a geopolitical move to cut russia off
WolfGoethe: their goal is to cut off venezula and the bolivarian revolution and then encircle brazil
WolfGoethe: this is geopolitics 101 not complciated
BingoBoingo: WolfGoethe: No. It was to appeal to the democratic base lest 'Murica's other socialist party do it in 2017.
WolfGoethe: .... boingo.. r u serious?
WolfGoethe: lol.. ok brah.. yeah.. thats the ticket
WolfGoethe: i am a fool
WolfGoethe: thinking it had something to do with russia and full spectrum domiannce
WolfGoethe: it is just so obama can get some mo votes for his pal... hilary
BingoBoingo: Yeah, Obama has sold a large part of America's electorate on Cuban style socialism and he want's to let them know he's stronger than the R-socialist party to making friends with cuba
mircea_popescu: anyway, this has been good enough for nao.
BingoBoingo: Well, it's the sort of diversion gossipd will render largely irrelevant.
BingoBoingo: The burden of impressing to get a connect to a gossipd node for the casual I imagine will be much higher than getting a !up nao.
mircea_popescu: prolly depends where
mircea_popescu: im sure there's going to be skankier nodes
mircea_popescu: actually thinking of it... cautions will probably be common.
mircea_popescu: "pay me 1 btc, if youdon't say anything stupid for a whole month you get it back"
BingoBoingo: Prolly. It's just this increment voice evolution seems to be proceeding at a humanly sane pace.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "pay me 1 btc, if youdon't say anything stupid for a whole month you get it back" << The way I understand gossipd... fair collateral seems closer to 15-20 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00065884 = 8.7296 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: "pay me 1 btc, if youdon't say anything stupid for a whole month you get it back << perfectly happy to run a blockchain telegraph gateway.
mircea_popescu: well... there's going to be skankier nodes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11704 @ 0.00066806 = 7.819 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do you mean ?
BingoBoingo: A current trust slut doesn't have the gossipd burden of getting its owner's actual orfices pounded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as described in my article by the same name
mircea_popescu wonders how the artifexd residence looks.
mircea_popescu: piles of scribbled notes and thrown matter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i got that part. but the relation ?
artifexd: nope
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
PeterL: ok, I think I got it working again:
assbot: #bitcoin-assets blog posts ... ( )
artifexd: My woman keeps the place in excellent order.
mircea_popescu: props to her
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah, simply suggesting that one could allow folks to speak on a cell by blocktelegraphing in
mircea_popescu: cool PeterL
PeterL: but it seems to be missing trilema posts.
mircea_popescu: sooo... tat gave up his blog too ?
PeterL: which is tat?
assbot: The Devil's Advocate | Telling it like it might be. ... ( )
asciilifeform: gave up << it seems to still be there ?
nubbins`: PeterL tat was the neobee guy.
mircea_popescu: PeterL yeah nothing from trilema, how come ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform october ?
PeterL: I seem to be getting an error trying to process unicode characters in python
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mine - june!
nubbins`: PeterL he ran a bunch of passthroughs and other sucker games on the various scamsites before retiring
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and there are many gaps at least that long
mircea_popescu: im more of a daily sort of guy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00067067 = 8.4169 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: PeterL: unicode is kinda gay
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: speaking of which, whatever happed to the marvelous british invention of the 'pig burial' ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Very good question.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> sooo... apparently "text" mysql blobs are limited to 65535 characters ? << perhaps someday consider the use of the alien technology "postgresql"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for wordpress ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: can't see why not.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I hear it can be forced.
mircea_popescu: all this stemmed from hanbot's comment on the gossipd article which was supposed to be like 120kb.
mircea_popescu: why not ? because i won't fucking rewrite wordpress wtf.
ben_vulpes: lord wordpress needs a rewriting to work with other databaxen?
mircea_popescu: i am sure.
assbot: Swine: Secret Weapon Against Islamic Terror? - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva ... ( )
artifexd: The simple solution would be to alter the table to change the column type from TEXT to LONGTEXT. That will give you 2**32 characters of space
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: There are tales of WP working with Postgre and others in off the shelf configuration, much as there are sightings of a loch ness monster with feathers.
mircea_popescu: PeterL what unicode does trilema spit out that chokes your script ?
mircea_popescu: artifexd it got changed to something like that but a diff name
assbot: Chechen Terrorists to be Buried in Pigskin - Latest News Briefs - Arutz Sheva ... ( )
ben_vulpes: wai web so shit
assbot: Britain First Extremists Plot Pig Burial to Halt Controversial Dudley Mega Mosque ... ( )
PeterL: just a sec, let me find it again
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: slightly different gambit there
mircea_popescu: "Britain First represents everything we disagree with and they represent the worst of all worlds, by putting on a patriotic face while promulgating division."
assbot: luanjunyi/gossipd · GitHub ... ( )
mircea_popescu: gotta be unionized!
mircea_popescu: "Gossipd is an implementation of MQTT 3.1 broker written in Go. MQTT is an excellent protocal for mobile messaging."
mircea_popescu: sounds like it went faor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00067017 = 5.1268 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up PeterL
decimation: asciilifeform: you might find this amusing
undata: decimation: here have this
assbot: Node OS ... ( )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7080 @ 0.00021001 = 1.4869 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: WHY!!!!!
BingoBoingo: "Let's do Google's Android, but somehow make it suck MOARRRR!!!!!"
decimation: lol nodejs
undata: it's that imitative mind
decimation: node.js is run by that joyent mafia
undata: JS is widespread, therefore good. Operating Systems are hard and people who make them are well known. I should sculpt my one shitty skill into hardthing and be well known.
BingoBoingo: Knife is hard, but ribmeat is soft!!!
assbot: Logged on 06-12-2014 02:50:54; decimation: apparently they kicked the guy off the project because of his refusal to commit a pronoun patch
BingoBoingo: ^ 4d26f9ff93d05876c1cd67dfc27de7b925949274
undata: already handled in logs, but ye gods the bile it summons
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30299 @ 0.00065177 = 19.748 BTC [-] {3}
undata goes back to poking his own web monstrosity with a stick
assbot: Reply to /izakaminska Financial Times blog post on Bitstamp hack. /hashtag/bitstamp?src=hash /hashtag/crypto?src=hash
BingoBoingo: undata: I count this past new years as successful as I fot to see my bile on January second. That means this is going to be a fun year.
undata: groundhog day at the vomitorium?
BingoBoingo: undata: Except actually ahs indicative power in my experience.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently something unfortunate happened to your neighbors during their game of "almost golf"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16594 @ 0.00064096 = 10.6361 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up cardigm
BingoBoingo: Hello cardigm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00063672 = 11.1426 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i must confess that i do not know how, and with what, the game of 'almost golf' is played; or how it relates to what is happening in the photo.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So You take a bunch of people, 5 on the field of paly at a time. Goal is putting a bouncy ball through a hoop of fixed height.
BingoBoingo: The major advantage in playing the game comes from a player being as close to the hoop's height as possible.
asciilifeform would prefer to see the aztec 'basketball'
mod6: yeah, with the hoop on the side.
mod6: and a ball of stone
mod6: murder-ball
asciilifeform: by some account, not stone
mod6: ah. maybe a stuffed goat bladder or something
asciilifeform: head of captain of former champion team.
BingoBoingo actuall prefers American football for the ways it stays truer to the spirit of indigenous sports.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00063289 = 19.2082 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: modern american football is a joke compared to what it used to be, its basically unwatchable these days.
BingoBoingo: mod6: NFL, totally unwatchable. College game. This bowl season a coach broke his nose. Running back shat his pants... and these were the more normal anomalies.
mod6: yeah, college is better. the plays they do are "creative" too.
mod6: hockey is about all i can really get into as far as pro sports.
mod6: lol, did you see Chris Christie during the Cowboys/Lions game? DEEERRRP
BingoBoingo: Hockey and Baseball are the pro sports I watch.
BingoBoingo: NFL. Did not watch.
mod6: omg. it was embarassing
mod6: but ya, the NFL is just brutal. its an abortion of what it used to be 25+ years ago
mod6: are you a blues fan?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Nominally. I like hockey in the way that I'd rather see a good game than follow a team.
mod6: werd
mod6: blues have been a good team for last number of years.
BingoBoingo: Baseball, I get territorial.
mod6: cards fan 'eh :)
BingoBoingo: Blues have always hovered somewhere between making the playoffs and missing a championship.
BingoBoingo: Cards though... Imma give Matheney all of the explatives for only making the playoffs.
mod6: Remember when they had Brett Hull? They were pretty good back then too.
BingoBoingo: !matheney
BingoBoingo: mod6: They were
BingoBoingo: Had Gretsky too for a time
mod6: that's right!
BingoBoingo: mod6: Even mircea_popescu Hates matheney's coaching though
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2014 22:19:37; mircea_popescu: matheny needs to be out of a job.
BingoBoingo: This was back when Carlos Martinez's twitter account consisted of a wall of vaginas he'd enjoyed
mod6: haha.
mod6: the Twins finally ditched Gardy.
mod6: a likeable guy, but just lost control of that team a few years back.
BingoBoingo: I saw. Chicago Cunts changed managers yet again too.
mod6: ya
BingoBoingo: Cubs hired the guy who used to coach in the #BitcoinBowl stadium
mod6: the Twins built that Target field for $1bn bezzle bucks. and if you step outside to smoke the fascist asswads wont let you re-enter.
BingoBoingo: They let you re-enter at Busch Stadium built with mostly private money...
BingoBoingo: Because the Los Angeles Rams fucked over the StL teams
mod6: They let you re-enter at Fenway too.
mod6: and they sell some killer brats. and old guys walk around and sell hot cups of "clamchowdah"
BingoBoingo: When I go to the cards games most I eat there is a hot dog. Gotta make hose $6 beers work.
mod6: yeah, lol. they're like $8 or something at Target field. its bananas. mind as well get a mixed drink.
BingoBoingo: Oh, mixed drinks at Busch cost nothing less than rape.
mod6: haha. they grape you in the mouth 'eh
BingoBoingo: !s molina
assbot: 9 results for 'molina' :
mod6: *bloop* irssi just told me that i've passed my #b-a byte allotment for the year.
mod6: :D
BingoBoingo: Happens
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2014 18:16:44; mircea_popescu: so which'd be the yadier-molina-est guy in that pic ?
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2014 18:16:44; mircea_popescu: so which'd be the yadier-molina-est guy in that pic ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22386 @ 0.00064692 = 14.482 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: ah
mod6: yeah.
BingoBoingo: Like every winning team the Cardinals preach family values when called for yet shank people in the alley when necessary.
BingoBoingo: !up cardigm
mod6: heheh
mod6: i was following the twins closer until a certain $100M player came down with "bi-lateral leg weakness"
mod6: it's like $100M!?
BingoBoingo: One economic problem I will never get is dual sports players in college declaring for the NFL draft and skipping the MLB draft (looking at you rapin Jaimis)
BingoBoingo: For the average to exceptional player the NFL offers more moneyper year over less years, while MLB offers more total money over a longer period of time.
BingoBoingo: SOme serious cult mentality there.
mod6: ya.
mod6: sports would be better if these knuckleheads just had to play for their meal ticket
mod6: and "glory" or w/e
BingoBoingo: Or if they'd think economically. Bo Jackson could have had another decade of professional playing time... If he didn't let the NFL cripple his body.
mod6: Bo Jackson was awesome.
BingoBoingo: Indeed
mod6: I think i have a rookie card of his somehwere around here.
BingoBoingo is kind of aggrevied Mussina didn't make the HOF this year in spite of inventing much of contemporary successful pitching.
mod6: think they'll ever give in and let Rose into the HOF?
BingoBoingo: Eventually, probably on a reconcilliation ballot or some shit. I don't see a need for them to though. Their denial has only made his legend stronger.
mod6: How is it that MLB is regulated by Congress?
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