Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-02-15 | 2015-02-17 →
cazalla: gee someone mentions alcohol and now im salivating
thestringpuller: dat face
cazalla: thestringpuller, lol
TheNewDeal: ;;bids 216.9
gribble: Bitstamp | There are currently 3005.8877 bitcoins demanded at or over 216.9 USD, worth 671376.912891 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.1582 seconds
TheNewDeal: !down TheNewDeal
asciilifeform: ^ we found the shitgnome.
asciilifeform: it was drepper.
asciilifeform: and yes, it perma-breaks the gcc 4.1 that is built as part of the gnat bootstrap.
ben_vulpes: is drepper the shitgnome or did drepper find the thing?
asciilifeform: shitgnome
ben_vulpes: disregard i eat cocks
ben_vulpes: who is drepper anyways?
asciilifeform: (and yes, as far as i can tell, the recent glibc pant-shitting was -also- drepper)
mircea_popescu: hm... it occurs to me... wouldn't it be a good idea if all progressives were required to register themselves with the state ?
ben_vulpes: stake?
mircea_popescu: so, for instance, they are not allowed to take up residence in single occupant dwellings / family houses etc ?
asciilifeform: the wide kind.
mircea_popescu: but only dormrooms with shared bathrooms etc ?
mircea_popescu: also, kept away from children and so on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we mostly have this already
mircea_popescu: ah, good then.
asciilifeform: the present-day crop of college kidz will never live in anything other than a kommunalka
mircea_popescu: it's called social studies graduate programs, isn't it ?
asciilifeform: can't afford children, etc
mircea_popescu: Ladies and gentlemen, seldom can it have been a greater pleasure and privilege than it is for me now to announce that the next observation gave me the great pleasure and privilege of observing that it is my great pleasure and privilege to live in the best possible world of all the worlds that are possible already.
asciilifeform falls down, stack overflowing
mircea_popescu: definitely.
asciilifeform: << undoes the shitgnomism, but wtf should i have to rebuild glibc and -everything- to use a perfectly ordinary proggy ?
assbot: siginfo_t_fix.patch - ... ( )
mircea_popescu: shut up and rebuild.
asciilifeform: no telling, also, what -else- will die
ben_vulpes goes to bed, asciilifeform goes to rebuild the universe.
ben_vulpes: what a time to be alive.
asciilifeform: ain't happening. 'make world' on this box would take longer than the hardware's mtbf.
mircea_popescu: lol in unrelated news, somebody just cussed me the fuck out because i am a wetback piece of shit left leaning commie.
mod6: haha wat
mircea_popescu: this entirely predicated on the very simple 'lives in argentina -> was born there -> planet of hats'
asciilifeform: i thought it was more ordinarily 'lives in argentina -> heil hitler' ?
mircea_popescu: so did i. but hey, at least i'm not a gypsy nigger.
asciilifeform: srsly, until very recently the common derp's sole item of 'knowledge' re: ar was that the fuhrer lives (yes) there
mircea_popescu: i would also guess this person owns more weapons than remaining fingers (firecracker accidents), and they have more telescopes than barrel notches.
asciilifeform: lol wut
mircea_popescu: be specific!
asciilifeform mindfucked, is searching for error msg, and #b-a log is #4 hit
asciilifeform: log of me crapping it in here
asciilifeform: a few hrs ago.
punkman: might be personalization
asciilifeform: punkman: does not appear to be...
punkman: let me try
asciilifeform: punkman: 'gnat "error: field 'info' has incomplete type" '
punkman: well google loves the log apparently
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> a few hrs ago. << yes. we dominate google mostly because we say interesting things.
mircea_popescu: the machine can tell by now.
punkman: I've been seeing it more often for various search strings, but I assumed it was personalization
asciilifeform already learned the cause of the error, but is looking to see who else was affected
asciilifeform: the shitgnome destroyed the ability to use an entire language
mircea_popescu: to a large degree it's the silent progress that has been happening in thefield of machine processing of human text for the past... 20 years ?
mircea_popescu: google is a major contributor. you can do wonderful things by sorting, word densities, etc etc.
asciilifeform: google has extremely questionable motives and - at this point - competence
mircea_popescu: you know all those "how to spam google ? ORIGINAL CONTENT!!1" advicey bits ? they're actually quite on point.
mircea_popescu: original of course doesn't mean what the marginal retard "trying to make it online" imagines.
asciilifeform: for all we know, they favour #b-a log on account of the sheer frequency with which sp4mz0rz and sc4mz0rz are mentioned here.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all motives are questionable. that's kinda what a motive is : "he's not doing it for me, he's doing it for himself"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, in one sentence it'd be "for the sheer frequency with which rare associations that match types they only see in quality text are seen here"
mircea_popescu: believe it or not, google can actually recognise useful new papers from shitty new papers better than "peer review" committees can.
assbot: Site Explorer Results - Summary - Majestic ... ( )
punkman: 65k links from external sources
asciilifeform: punkman: betcha that's a random number
asciilifeform: the thing has a thoroughly spamatronic feel to it
punkman: no they crawl
mircea_popescu: they do crawl.
punkman: good addition for robots.txt block
mircea_popescu: i never bothered.
mircea_popescu: let them crawl lol.
mircea_popescu: is a similar thing, also crawls.
punkman: there's at least a dozen of those mega-crawlers
mircea_popescu: yeah. big business, giving idiots in cubicals something to do with their time that looks more srs bzns than facebook
punkman: purpose being "find out where that other guy spams links, so you can do it too"
asciilifeform: so the 'google finds unique strings' thing, sure - can we conclude that i'm the only one alive trying to build 'gnat' on 'gentoo' ?
asciilifeform: this is sad.
asciilifeform: where did the others go? ate their nagants from frustration ?
joecool: google moved away from unique strings over the past few years... moved to signals, will match synonyms and areas to a query
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in a sane manner for sane reasons ? yes.
assbot: The perfect pitch pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: where are the fossilized traces of folks doing it in insane matter, for lunatic reasons?
mircea_popescu: the fly eyes on the meat aren't a joke.
asciilifeform: i'd care to read'em. but nowhere
asciilifeform: just to underscore the sheer level of the braindamage i've uncovered - the thing won't build on any box with past 2+ yrs of glibc.
asciilifeform: mean to tell me that i'm the only one to 1) notice 2) say something on the net
mircea_popescu: i don't think you actually understand how the world works.
asciilifeform: evidently not
mircea_popescu: ok. let's put it in perspective. at some point i ended up peripherally involved in the "Art" scene by virtue of fucking in it.
mircea_popescu: out of every 1k kids spending at least 1mn man-hours/year discussing a) creativity, generally and b) various projects
mircea_popescu: a total of less than 100 hours ever got put into any actually existent item that could be burned for instance.
asciilifeform: what happens to the rest of the time ?
mircea_popescu: just because it's easier (and cheaper) to type into box than throw paint at canvas does not mean more anything ever gets made.
asciilifeform: at some point you end up wondering what they're doing instead
mircea_popescu: happens ?
mircea_popescu: what is the pentium 1 doing "instead" ?
asciilifeform: heating the room.
mircea_popescu: instead of what lol. that's the clock rate.
asciilifeform: i mean, it is approximately correct to say that it is discharging heat in the time between ticks
asciilifeform: as the necessary 'instead'
mircea_popescu: well im sure they all maintained metabolic balance throughout.
mircea_popescu: one particular schmuck formulated plans for at least 24 months, at the rate of one a week, to TALK TO this particular whore.
mircea_popescu: he failed, at the end of the reporting period, to have met the bare minimum level of achievement of finding out that the girl was actually working.
asciilifeform: what would have been the purpose of such an exercise ?
mircea_popescu: dude i dunno, if i spend my time planning how to murder obama and fail to find out he died three years prior as a side product
mircea_popescu: i'd be fucking worried.
asciilifeform: ^ obligatory
mircea_popescu: imagine you were going to war in afghanistan and discovered the centcom thought afghanistan is actually in zanzibar ?
mircea_popescu: if that happens im fucking defecting, because srsly. finding just one cockroach in the kitchen is one thing, but here we have found a cockroach inside the cockroach and no sign of any kitchens.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00041847 = 10.3781 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: why would someone sit and formulate a 'plan' to talk to a whore ?
asciilifeform: that was the question
mircea_popescu: he DID NOT KNOW THIS
mircea_popescu: and he failed to find out.
asciilifeform suddenly grasps what the story was probably about
mircea_popescu: which should be informative. i've never spent two years planning on how to fix a window without discovering it really is a door, at some point during all that.
mircea_popescu: the process is wholly self-referential. it is in no sense different from the goings on in any insane asylum. you are essentially asking "ok, the sanitariums of the world hold a supply of at least 5000 napoleons. why is there no glorious history being produced ?"
mircea_popescu: i dunno. guess ?
asciilifeform: 'insufficient number and quality of bicorns issued to the napoleons'
asciilifeform: moar phunding needed.
mircea_popescu: clearly.
mircea_popescu: and in fact more funding is issued by the long suffering parents, either directly (as is the case in romania) or through collective buying (the state ->taxes->etc in the us).
mircea_popescu: but this can not result in any substantial change, because more effort applied to faulty premise.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 34 @ 0.09331825 = 3.1728 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18128 @ 0.00041437 = 7.5117 BTC [-]
assbot: Bryan Adams - Summer of 69 - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: now imagine that, through technological advance, there is actually no real job for any of the kids to do. so jimmy does not quit. and consequently jodi has nobody to marry. so she does not. so twenty years later, they are still in that garage, still with that guitar.
mircea_popescu: fingers still bleed.
mircea_popescu: has more music been produced ?
mircea_popescu: a lot of neuropathy to "explain" and justify it all, sure. but google can sort through all that pretty fast, especially because it being psychogenic rather than rational it is dreadfully boring and entirely predictable.
mircea_popescu: read one police report of crime x, you've read half of them. read ten, you've (practically) read them all. clinical psychology is only interesting to the patently insane, as a practice. otherwise all the notes say endlessly the same five or six things. there just aren't that many things to say.
mircea_popescu: "and then the engine blew a cylinder". gee.
mircea_popescu: and i'm putting this on my blog.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00040743 = 8.5968 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13471 @ 0.00040058 = 5.3962 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81179 @ 0.00038973 = 31.6379 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: You've made the bed. Enjoy dying in it. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: << for the reason, the guy has omfg no idea what he's talking about.
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: A Primer on Pedophilia ... ( )
mircea_popescu: this is the most moldbug-like tlp article so far.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31950 @ 0.00041131 = 13.1414 BTC [+]
assbot: Hackers steal up to $1 billion from banks, security co. says (Update) ... ( )
mircea_popescu: qntra pls!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.00039547 = 20.1492 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before April 2015" Odds: 15(Y):85(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.3001 BTC. Current weight: 97,928.
cazalla: mircea_popescu: But legal driving limit is usually .08% <<< here, 0.05, learner or provisional driver? 0! bad luck if your medication put you over the limit!
cazalla: personally, i am capable of driving at any limit although police did not believe such a story
cazalla: typical australian drunk driver
assbot: Just waiting for a mate - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172900 @ 0.00039229 = 67.8269 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.00040406 = 21.6576 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21380 @ 0.00040406 = 8.6388 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00039714 = 2.8991 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29664 @ 0.00039572 = 11.7386 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15473 @ 0.00039113 = 6.052 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42750 @ 0.00040171 = 17.1731 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up Codmadnesspro
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74400 @ 0.00039328 = 29.26 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49900 @ 0.00040406 = 20.1626 BTC [+]
assbot: Up To One Billion in Fiat Value Stolen From Banks | ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47597 @ 0.00040406 = 19.232 BTC [+]
assbot: Just a moment... ... ( )
Adlai: tl;dr url is sufficient
Adlai: tbh for both of the last links
Adlai → emax
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70350 @ 0.00040854 = 28.7408 BTC [+]
assbot: Bitcoin Core 0.10.0 Released : Bitcoin ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42294 @ 0.00041636 = 17.6095 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158450 @ 0.00041819 = 66.2622 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: !up hdbuck
danielpbarron: welcome to the real world!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72650 @ 0.00040452 = 29.3884 BTC [-] {3}
danielpbarron: height=189051 vs height=182929 (solid state pogo vs 5400 rpm)
assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 15:26:42; danielpbarron: height=183012 vs height=181378 currently
Adlai: go pogo go
Adlai: although i guess the correct plugal would be pogī
hdbuck: danielpbarron ahah sure, not that i have much to say anyway. just lurking
BingoBoingo: OpenBSD 0.7.2 sync 2 now on April 15th, 2013
Adlai: hdbuck: just don't pledge allegiance to "usg and FIAT" and you'll be fine
danielpbarron: lol cazalla re: the video you posted "can you define definitive?"
danielpbarron: this guy could run for president
hdbuck: adlai never :)
Adlai prefers subaru, much better store of value
danielpbarron: "Again you had me at Hitler's knob. Besides, I have a FICO score that gives me all the credit I need." << my brain is going to catch on fire..
assbot: Bitcoin 20MB Fork ... ( )
danielpbarron: this is from a "donator." doesn't that mean he gave thermos 50 bitcoin or something?
hdbuck: so whatcha gonna do when coinbase/TBF/bitpay/bitfury/KNC/ and all the usg rapist unite to promote the fork?
danielpbarron: same thing I do every day: read the logs
danielpbarron: seriously, do you think any of those groups have any effect on bitcoin?
danielpbarron: (i assume by TBF you don't mean the real one -> )
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( )
hdbuck: i think so, yea. even Karpeles had an non negligible effect on bitcoin.
danielpbarron: so did pirateat40
hdbuck: right?
hdbuck: DPR too ^^
BingoBoingo: DPR, literally the guy who wasn't good enough to sling dope as a profession
danielpbarron: this was explained very well by the great MPOE-PR, or as we know her, hanbot
danielpbarron: i'm having trouble finding the article now, perhaps someone can help me
hdbuck: anyhow if that helps i’ll gladly plug back in my antminers to mine ‘mpcoins’ ^^
assbot: Fact of the matter is, the infrastructure was not ready pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
danielpbarron: "When a small majority* of participants behave irresponsibly however the net result is not just pain to their own fortunes, but pain spread across the board. All of a sudden you have to be very intelligent, and very experienced, and very well informed to manage to keep your money safe, and often enough even that's not going to suffice."
hdbuck: eh, thats just stating the obvious. not that anyone could do anything about it. cycle of life.
assbot: Things that matter these days ; things that don't matter these days. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
danielpbarron: "I remember a time when those barely visible bumps around August 2012 and February 2013 filled the whole screen with their rollercoaster-y appearance. I remember that time because I was there and saw it, but to anyone looking today they don't matter and could as well have never existed. This will happen again, in the future."
danielpbarron: !up hdbuck
hdbuck: danielpbarron yea i like that article, read it already when it came out, anway gotta go, thanks for the heads up. ++
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158400 @ 0.00042048 = 66.604 BTC [+] {4}
mike_c: what is it holding?
mike_c: i want that to be cute but i can't tell if there's a death struggle going on.
BingoBoingo: I think it is pretending to be a boulder to get down a slope
BingoBoingo: I can't tell what if anything it is holding
asciilifeform: phoundation's 0.10 >> 'More script opcodes considered standard - more power for programmable money' << lol, hardphork?
asciilifeform: would someone care to explain why a previously-invalid opcode introduced by phoundation doesn't make a fork ?
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My naive understanding is that older client just see it as noise. Like the multisig stuff.
BingoBoingo: But this is a very naive understanding
nubbins`: *:asciilifeform wonders if he's the only fella here who has never rage-smashed a keyboard, pNohe, pNablet, ..., etc <<< i rage-smashed a set of folding binoculars at around age 8, broke the little compass on top. wept bitterly at the loss, resolved to only smash things i didn't value from then on
nubbins`: BingoBoingo:DPR, literally the guy who wasn't good enough to sling dope as a profession <<< if he'd stuck to website admin, his actual job, he'd prolly still be out there
nubbins`: also FWIW i think mp et al precisely misunderstood the function of silk road
nubbins`: (but so did dpr, in the end)
nubbins`: its purpose was never, ever to do something as ludicrous as move a kilo of cocaine
nubbins`: that this sort of thing directly led to its demise is no coincidence
nubbins`: consider: what is every dark market currently selling as their #1 product?
nubbins`: personal amounts of recreational drugs.
nubbins`: not kilos of coke, not guns, porn, assassinations, etc
nubbins`: padded envelopes filled with party.
nubbins`: it's just as moronic for someone to move a kilo of cocaine on a dark market as it is for someone to buy a personal amount of pot from a stranger, in person.
nubbins`: that the two activities carry significantly differing levels of risk is worth noting, but this point aside, they're equally nonsensical.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Well the risk for the in person personal weed deal is functional. It keeps everyone honest.
nubbins`: generally the purchaser in a face-to-face transaction is at a distinct disadvantage.
nubbins`: guy shortchanges you by half and grins at you while he's doing it. whatcha gonna do?
nubbins`: leave him a rating?
BingoBoingo: Why not?
nubbins`: because there's nowhere i can "leave a rating" in meatspacethat will follow him around?
nubbins`: what am i gonna do, put a warning post on craigslist?
BingoBoingo: Or Yelp
danielpbarron: it's not so risky asking a stranger for pot where I live; recreational amount is just a ticketable offense these days
nubbins`: danielpbarron sure. and with smaller markets comes less risk, as reputation becomes more important.
BingoBoingo: Or you tattoo he shortchanges onto his forehead in the back of a van.
nubbins`: but let's rewind a bit...
danielpbarron: also, i used to bite my super nintendo controlers
nubbins`: <+nubbins`> it's just as moronic for someone to move a kilo of cocaine on a dark market as it is for someone to buy a personal amount of pot from a stranger, in person.
nubbins`: ^ from a stranger
nubbins`: suppose you moved to a new city and you wanna get lifted
Adlai: ideally the promise of repeat business would keep them honest
nubbins`: 1) hit up the park and ask the hippies 2) hit up the alley and ask the sketchbag 3) pop on SR and purchase from a trusted vendor with a list of ratings
Adlai: get cheated, find a new stranger. but this is far from perfect
nubbins`: Adlai "ideally" the first time someone buys weed from you, they're not a repeat customer
danielpbarron: hey i totally agree; silkroad was perfect for the petty stuff
nubbins`: it was DESIGNED for the petty stuff.
nubbins`: kept young white kids outta the hard parts of town
danielpbarron: when i found out the kids were buying bulk research chems, that was too much for me
nubbins`: nevermind that most of those were undoubtably fake.
Adlai: bulk research chems were sold on the open internet long before sr existed
danielpbarron: they were intentionally fake
Adlai: they're not fake, you can buy them straight from the lab
nubbins`: review left on 5-MeO-DMT: "nice effect"
nubbins`: "i think i can feel it coming on"
danielpbarron: you get what you pay for
nubbins` shakes head
danielpbarron: real LSD costs money.
nubbins`: Adlai i mean the RCs on SR were mostly fake.
nubbins`: danielpbarron now here's an interesting thing.
nubbins`: in 2006, 2-5I-NBOmE or however the fuck it's spelled was created
Adlai facepalms on nubbins`'s behalf
nubbins`: active at very low doses -- enough to fit on blotter -- and similar enough to LSD that those who hadn't dosed before could mistake it for the real thing
nubbins`: for the better part of a decade, NBOMe was the ONLY "acid" you could get on the street.
nubbins`: always sold as LSD, because who the fuck wants to buy something called 2-5i-NBOMe?
danielpbarron: that is exactly how the scam works ^ : kids these days have no idea what LSD is supposed to be like
nubbins`: then SR comes around and there's a category for LSD and a category for NBOMe
nubbins`: and people stop misrepresenting what they're selling.
nubbins`: because it turns out people are perfectly willing to buy 2-5i-NBOMe.
Adlai: yknow, reagents existed even before the internet itself
nubbins`: Adlai you don't say?
nubbins`: anyway. silk road came along. it died, others followed.
nubbins`: now when you buy LSD from a guy off the street, it's actually LSD.
nubbins`: it's twice the cost of the late 90s/early 00s
nubbins`: but (a) inflation (b) who cares
nubbins`: (c) it was underpriced to begin with
Adlai: the price of lsd is an interesting topic, given that once you pass some rather priceless hurdles, the actual cost of producing a kilo of the stuff is epsilon
nubbins`: oh sure.
nubbins`: those missile silo guys
nubbins`: marginal cost was like $0.29 per hit?
Adlai: that sounds high.
nubbins`: actually maybe that was their wholesale rate
nubbins`: details are lost to memory
nubbins`: but yeah, straight up, the actual cheapest drug to produce once you're set up
danielpbarron: it's not unlike those "asic" chips where they would burn part of the board off to make the lower end version
nubbins`: well. "cheapest" is dimensionless
nubbins`: in this regard
Adlai: "Interestingly, the $10/100mcg price is approximately what the research chemical firm Sigma-Aldrich charges (Product Link). I'm guessing the main expense is regulatory compliance. $1 for the chemicals, $99 for filling out NIDA paperwork."
assbot: Lysergic acid diethylamide | Sigma-Aldrich ... ( )
nubbins`: not available in my region ;/
nubbins`: $15 a tab seems to be dark-market standard these days
nubbins`: ;;google $15 in 1999 dollars
gribble: 1999 - Calculate the value of $15 in 1999 - Inflation on 15 dollars ...: <>; Inflation Calculator: Bureau of Labor Statistics: <>; Canada Lunar Coin | eBay: <>
PeterL: so I just applied for a job at a company, their hr is handled by , made me lol
nubbins`: ehh pretty close.
nubbins`: anyway.
nubbins`: $15 for 8 hours of fun
nubbins`: that'd buy you between one and three beers at a bar, depending on your tolerance for seediness
Adlai: or, to bastardize sam harris, 1000 years at the Mountain of Shame
assbot: Drugs and the Meaning of Life : Sam Harris ... ( )
Adlai: "I ingested 400 micrograms of LSD. I was twenty years old and had taken the drug at least ten times previously. What could go wrong?" lol
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins` prepares to write a list
Adlai left out the part about sam doing this on a rowboat in a nepalese lake
nubbins`: "I can think of no right more fundamental than the right to peacefully steward the contents of one’s own consciousness."
jurov: -query thestringpuller
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36345 @ 0.00042179 = 15.33 BTC [+]
Adlai likes mckenna's "If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
assbot: This is why medicine is not a liberal profession, but a servile career pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
Adlai: this footnote density is really outta hand
mircea_popescu: not even the worst offender, that one.
nubbins`: dat lack of credits
nubbins`: i'll read it next week 8)
mircea_popescu: lol send me a copper bitcent, i'llset you up
ben_vulpes: "Why, he will be castigated by the authority, cast out by the other doctors, and no longer be able to call himself a doctor." << rarely happens in the ussa, but this place is a hellhole.
nubbins`: "Have you ever traveled, beyond all mere metaphors, to the Mountain of Shame and stayed for a thousand years? I do not recommend it."
nubbins`: mp addy plox
jurov: almost all alternative cancer treatments i saw had some emdee face from the US attached
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Not Competent To Make Medical Decisions? ... ( )
nubbins`: actually i guess i can do this myself right on the page
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: !up Codmadnesspro
Adlai: the cock wagging the hand?
mircea_popescu: why not!
nubbins`: why did this man feel that taking 400mcg of LSD, alone, in a rowboat, in the middle of a lake, in nepal, was a good idea?
nubbins`: ah, youth
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell imsaguy << hey remember 2011 ?! random commenter dug it up.
assbot: Fetele bitcoin-ului, episodul II pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes but in any case, it probably happens even rarely-er to slavegirls.
nubbins`: hey, it ended with a quote from "the varieties of religious experience"
nubbins` highly recommends Sagan's "the varieties of scientific experience"
Adlai: and omitted james's favorite variety.
nubbins`: same lecture series, ~90 years later
assbot: Erowid Nitrous Vault : The Subjective Effects of Nitrous Oxide, by William James ... ( )
nubbins`: Adlai i can recall trying to explain to someone what it's like being put to sleep by "gas" when in the hospital
nubbins`: after hemming and hawing for a bit, i said "it's like doing whippets until you pass out"
nubbins`: paused to think
Adlai: s/like //
nubbins`: "actually, take the word 'like' out of there"
Adlai: yeah :D
mircea_popescu: i thought they use simple N2 in those cans, not NO
Adlai: N₂O
mircea_popescu: is it ? but why ?
mircea_popescu: n2 much cheaper, inert.
Adlai: it's kinda illogical for n2 to get you high
Adlai: or rather, the n2 high is the most common one, by faaaaar
Adlai: the default high, if you will.
mircea_popescu: it's kinda illogical to tell me you actually think billions of gallos of heavy duty intoxicant are being sold otc all over the world.
Adlai cited no numbers
nubbins`: ...they are.
Adlai: also nitrous isn't that cheap
nubbins`: like a buck a hit!
Adlai: if lsd fun is $2/hr, nitrous is more like $200
mircea_popescu: so how much does a can of whipping cream cost ?
mircea_popescu: $79 + tax ?
nubbins`: couple bucks
mircea_popescu: buncha dopeheads.
nubbins`: skip the cream, buy the canisters.
Adlai: skip the cannisters, buy the tank
mircea_popescu: and you still think the can's pressurized with n2o ?
nubbins` facepalms
nubbins`: of course it is.
mircea_popescu: because just n2 not good enough ?
danielpbarron: there was a guy with a nitrous tank at porcfest with a group of zombies crowded around it
nubbins`: mircea_popescu it's precisely n2o.
assbot: whipped cream canisters - Google Search ... ( )
Adlai: how on earth (the planet with an atmosphere full of nitrogen) would nitrogen gas get you anything other than sober / oxygen deprived
davout: mircea_popescu: you get high from n2 starting at ~4 bar partial pressure iirc
mircea_popescu: so someone sells you $200 an hour stuff at coupla bux a can ?
danielpbarron: the trip lasts about a minute
mircea_popescu: Adlai most dopeheads can't distinguish asphyxia from a high.
nubbins`: the trip lasts almost precisely as long as you can hold your breath.
PeterL: Adlai: oxygen deprivation can feel like getting high?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu FWIW asphyxia is a completely different buzz.
nubbins`: also FWIW as long as your air has, what, 15-20% oxygen, you're fine
Adlai: i'm sorry, but if you can't distinguish o2 deprivation from n2o intoxication, then you've never intoxicated on n2o.
mircea_popescu: get a mass spectrometer, can at it, see if it's n2o or n2 or co2 (more commonly now)
Adlai: they are *different*
nubbins`: <--has been high on medical-grade n2o
nubbins`: <--has also tried whippets
danielpbarron: how is it surprising you can get high with whipped cream? you can also make your own ether fairly easily
nubbins`: <--has also held breath til unconsciousness (!)
Adlai: now THAT is impressive willpower
nubbins`: Adlai every day is a winding road
danielpbarron: as a teenager i impressed some friends with that little trick: buy some starter fluid, mix with water in garbage bag, wait for it to settle, drain out the impurities
nubbins`: mircea_popescu while co2 canisters are popular, they're a different size and generally used for paintball/bb guns
mircea_popescu: nubbins` im more talking the industrial side of things here.
mircea_popescu: suppose you have a canning operation.
nubbins`: ok, let's take Air Liquide for an example
nubbins`: ;;google air liquide
gribble: Home > American Air Liquide: <>; Careers > American Air Liquide: <>; Search Jobs and Apply > American Air Liquide: <>
mircea_popescu: do you buy the expensive and license-requiring n2o, or the cheap atmospheric gas ?
nubbins`: well, it depends. what do i want to use it for?
mircea_popescu: making two buck a can whipping cream
Adlai: fwiw, there's "automotive-grade" and "food-grade" nitrous. the latter is (supposedly) regulated to contain nitrous and not whatever else is cheaper.
nubbins`: yeah, "NOS" is n2o.
Adlai: and yes, if you buy a tank of nitrous oxide, and you don't check what grade it is, you will get sulfur dioxide (or worse) impurities
mircea_popescu: is there also a medical anesthetic ?
mircea_popescu: also regulated, amoing other things, to not be dispensed otc / to unlicensed physicians ?
Adlai: +nubbins` | <--has been high on medical-grade n2o
nubbins`: most dentist's offices have n2o on tap.
nubbins`: every hospital does.
mircea_popescu: most household bathrooms however do not.
Adlai: ;;google cause i'm a dentist
gribble: Little Shop of Horrors I'm a Dentist - YouTube: <>; Little Shop of Horrors - Dentist Song - YouTube: <>; Little Shop Of Horrors - Dentist! Lyrics | MetroLyrics: <>
nubbins`: unless they buy n2o cartridges from the restaurant supply store.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, all hospitals also have morphine on tap.
Adlai: some even have desomorphine!
mircea_popescu: kinda why druggies try to steal from hospitals rather than police stations or courthouses.
Adlai: er, diamorphine
Adlai: i doubt any have deso :P
nubbins`: mircea_popescu plain n2 is probably not fat soluble.
nubbins`: (guessing)
Adlai: ... why not?
Adlai: plain n2 is probably anything-soluble
Adlai: (guessing)
mircea_popescu: to get a pressurized container you don't need fat solubility, nor is 2 buck a can whipping creram anything but styrofoam.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, co2 is not bread soluble either, works just fine to leaven bread.
nubbins`: well the fat solubility is what whips the cream.
mircea_popescu: you're nuts.
nubbins`: you're nuts.
nubbins`: add heavy cream to a canister.
nubbins`: add n2o.
mircea_popescu: and shake ?
PeterL: it needs to be non-soluble to make the bubbles
nubbins`: if the container is pressurized, the n2o will dissolve into the cream.
mircea_popescu: sometimes i wish to visit the industrial plants artists would make to support their independent nation
nubbins`: now you have liquid cream filled with n2o.
nubbins`: when this is released into the atmosphere
mircea_popescu: PeterL shut up, he can distinguish highs and also has vision spectrometry built in.
nubbins`: the n2o releases itself from the cream
nubbins`: foaming ("whipping") it in the process
PeterL: I just don't understand how the world works?
nubbins`: srsly, howstuffworks.
mircea_popescu: well, not his.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` and this would not work the same with any other gas.
Adlai wonders whether anybody bothered to read william james's gassy babblings. tl;dr: "There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference."
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i'd imagine it would
mircea_popescu: so then who thefuck would use anything but either co2 or n2, ie, atmospheric gases.
nubbins`: "it produces whipped cream four times the volume of the liquid, whereas whipping air into cream only produces twice the volume. If air were used as a propellant, oxygen would accelerate rancidification of the butterfat; nitrous oxide inhibits such degradation. Carbon dioxide cannot be used for whipped cream because it is acidic in water, which would curdle the cream and give it a seltzer-like "sparkling" sensation."
mircea_popescu: notice 02 wasn't there. it's obvious why not : fucking expensive. because reactive.
Adlai: related: you want to sell roses in gas stations. q: why would you add a useless hole to your vase? a: because you don't actually want to sell roses, you're selling crack pipes.
nubbins`: of course o2 isn't there
mircea_popescu: right. and ok, co2 is acidic. that leaves n2.
Adlai: but n2 won't bring additional revenue from kiddies looking for kicks
nubbins`: i'm no chemist, but maybe if we asked someone qualified, they'd be able to give an actual answer
mircea_popescu: (kinda why co2 is used in "beverages" - acidity there's a plus)
mircea_popescu: nubbins` like who, PeterL ?
PeterL: I'm thinking about it
mircea_popescu: PeterL do you have a mass spectrometer anywhere ?
nubbins`: i'm not sure why you think there's an industry-wide conspiracy and that all whipped cream canisters are intentionally mislabelled?
nubbins`: that's retarded
PeterL: not since I got laid off a couple weeks ago
nubbins`: like, actually.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it gets you to buy it, dunnit ?
assbot: Why Is Nitrous Oxide Used In Whipped Cream ... ( )
PeterL: and I think gas chromatogram is what you are looking for?
mircea_popescu: not a single fmcg item is properly labeled if the dispute is "get nubsy to think it's better than it is"
nubbins` sighs
mircea_popescu: PeterL yeah. i r physicist not chemist. and a theoretical one at that >D
nubbins`: so the premium fuel i'm putting into my car is actually regular grade?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` can we now move on to the wrestling dispute ?
nubbins`: sounds like you've got this conspiracy cracked wide open
Adlai: it's actually just nitrogen
Adlai: your car moves by magic
mircea_popescu: no, but it doesn;'t "protect the engine"
nubbins`: right.
mircea_popescu: tho they claim it.
mircea_popescu: and have, for > 50 years.
mircea_popescu: 'new formulation, protects the engine!11"
nubbins`: so our options are: (1) n2o is actually n2o and there's a reason why n2 won't cut it. or (2) all n2o is n2, without exception, and every single person who knows this secret isn't telling.
nubbins` nods slowly
nubbins`: (2) does sound like the more reasonable one
nubbins`: (1) is suspicious
mircea_popescu: nubbins` our options are, 1) two buck a can items are made with the cheapest possible thing and 2) two buck a can items are made with expensive medicine, because there's a conspiracy to keep kids entertained while they can't legally as much as buy a drink.
Adlai: 3) mircea_popescu is trolling nubbins`
nubbins`: no kidding
mircea_popescu: that goes without saying bitch! :D
nubbins`: anyway
Adlai: yeah but nubbins` seems set on convincing you, rather than trolling along...
mircea_popescu: he's half and half.
nubbins`: Adlai it's one of my failings
mircea_popescu: he was more like 80/20 when he was younger, but he learns.
PeterL: my guess is that N2o is used because, like propane, it becomes liquid at reasonable pressures
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4755 @ 0.00041067 = 1.9527 BTC [-]
Adlai: now let's talk about how danielpbarron passed off diethyl ether as moonshine
nubbins`: fun fact, cooking sprays generally use propane/butane
nubbins`: if you're quick, you can spray some into your mouth and breathe fire
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53645 @ 0.00042221 = 22.6495 BTC [+]
nubbins`: if you're slow, you get a terrible, terrible taste in your mouth without any neat flames
nubbins`: and cooking spray spit all over your house.
nubbins`: at least, that's what i hear.
mircea_popescu: PeterL what's n2 ?
PeterL: n2? nitrogen?
PeterL: it's a gas
danielpbarron: Adlai, wah? no i didn't
Adlai: :P
danielpbarron: we didn't drink the stuff; we huffed it through a rag
Adlai: did it make you helpless and depraved?
danielpbarron: NO! totally overrated!
mircea_popescu: yes nitrogen. what temp i mean
mircea_popescu: to have a comparison
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, Adlai: in fact, you need 2x the amount of pressure to keep n2 liquid.
nubbins`: so... suck it. ;/
mircea_popescu: yeah, because totally, pressure is unavailable industrially. nobody ever used 2x the pressure to save on 90% the c ost.
Adlai sucks in n2, and lets it out
PeterL: not temp, pressure is what is important here, I am looking it up, just give me a sec...
mircea_popescu: at least not prior to 1720
Adlai: danielpbarron: i guess it's lost popularity for good reason
nubbins`: totally, it's the same cost to make a vessel resistant to twice the pressure. 8)
nubbins`: those fools!
nubbins`: nevermind that you're literally rupturing the canisters with a fuckin spike
mircea_popescu: shut up and let the chemist investigate
mircea_popescu: fucking lobbist!!11 THIS IS SCIENCE
PeterL: critical point for nitrogen is only 125 K, critical point for n2o is about 35 K
nubbins`: oh hi, the rest of freenode
mircea_popescu: PeterL that does anything you figure ?
Adlai: trivia: n2o and n2 were both isolated in the same year, by different chemists. i hope they had a shitfest over who had really isolated nitrogen before realizing they were distinct compounds :D
ben_vulpes: welcome back nubbins`
ben_vulpes: i missed ya
nubbins`: i think this is the second time mp tried to tell me my subective experience was incorrect
mircea_popescu: Adlai they totally did actually, if i recall my biographies correctly.
nubbins`: also the second time i took the bait ;(
nubbins`: feelsbad.png
PeterL: yeah, that means at room temperature you can have liquid n2o, but not liquid n2
mircea_popescu: nubbins` clearly this would be because... your subjective experience... is ...
nubbins`: an affront to your ego
mircea_popescu: PeterL 125 is not quite room temp. more like 273.15
PeterL: right
mircea_popescu: you can have solid fucking hydrogen at room temp if you push it hard enough
PeterL: room temperature is much higher than n2's critical point, but below the critical point of n2o
mircea_popescu: 125 and 35 K are both under 0 C ?
PeterL: oops, I meant 35 C for n2o
nubbins`: all the whipped cream is probably using elemental hydrogen as a propellant, then.
nubbins`: it's cheaper, obvs
mircea_popescu: yeah, good idea, mix K and C that'll result in clarity :D
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nah it'll hydrolize teh vegetal fats
nubbins`: who cares?
Adlai: no, it'll result in a bunch of wildly angry cokeheads
nubbins`: it's just kids
PeterL: h2 would probly need a catalyst to do anything to your fat
danielpbarron: maybe there's something to what MP is saying; I can get pretty high from holding my breath while standing up suddenly
mircea_popescu: who ythe fuck knows what's in there tho
nubbins`: i know N2H used to be common for this purpose.
mircea_popescu loathes canned cream.
nubbins`: danielpbarron FWIW this is completely different from n2o buzz 8)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you don't say. try it while ejaculating suddenly sometime.
nubbins`: scroll up, i've passed out from both and can compare
nubbins`: bbl things
nubbins`: oh also if any of you are into birds
nubbins`: we have a new batch of books done up
mircea_popescu: birds as in women ?
assbot: Birds Of Newfoundland — PATRICK THOMAS CANNING ... ( )
nubbins`: birds as in, of a feather
nubbins`: what is this, london in 1960? :D
nubbins`: crikey mate
nubbins`: this bird's gone all uh
nubbins` grasps
nubbins`: women's lib-y
nubbins`: or something
Adlai: wodehousian?
nubbins`: there ya go
Adlai: pronounced "wood house in", of course
nubbins`: also MFW i realized the "machismo" of north america in film, tv, commercials, etc etc was a response to second-wave feminism
nubbins`: in the 70s
nubbins`: anyway bbl
nubbins`: neckbeards gonna neckbeard
mircea_popescu: i don't really think "2nd wave" feminism was ever important enough to engender noticeable reaction.
mircea_popescu: obviously current fem derps would very much like to think so, mostly because it involves people they like to promote.
PeterL: so to finalize where I was going, since n2o goes through the gas/liquid transition you can squish much more into the can at a reasonable pressure than n2, and so you get fluffier cream when it comes out of the can. n2 whipped cream would not be fluffy.
Adlai: and it gets you high. who doesn't like products with dual market appeal!
mircea_popescu: i can see it.
mircea_popescu: i guess this drama's dried up, need to move on to something else to keep the btc price up.
PeterL: has nothing to do with solubilizing in the cream
mircea_popescu: how about "I am blocking you due to your association with a argentinian ass bag named MirceaPopescu who has stolen the personal information of many people on fet life and posted it to a web site."
mircea_popescu: my dream is that at some future point two groups of people will beat each other up to cries of "the asshole's a romanian gypsy!" "no he's an argentinian commie!"
Adlai: actually it's a lot worse, he's part of BITCOIN
PeterL: so mircea_popescu, when are you going to start pushing up the bitcoin price so you can win the berkshire bet?
mircea_popescu: that soudns too much like work.
Adlai: after he's done betting enough that he also wins the billion dollar bet bet
PeterL: have your slaves do it for you?
mircea_popescu: if my work self wins the bet, then that's not really the real me winning
mircea_popescu: i want to win by itself!
Adlai: it's not Work if it pays out in Virtual Currency
mircea_popescu: that's a theory...
PeterL: the only work worth doing is the kind that pays out in bitcoin
ben_vulpes: have we done exercise strategies yet?
ben_vulpes: or macronutrient ratios?
ben_vulpes: lots of lulz and drama to be had there.
ben_vulpes: heh great
ben_vulpes: lady v loved cunt-in-a-box btw
mircea_popescu: haha cool.
PeterL: !up xuthus
xuthus: \o/
assbot: The Tar Pit - Bitcoin as infrastructure [iv] ... ( )
mike_c: oh, wow. that's cool :)
mike_c: i take back everything i ever said about footnotes.
mircea_popescu: much better quality than ximenez ever had.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44150 @ 0.00042221 = 18.6406 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17151 @ 0.00040839 = 7.0043 BTC [-]
xuthus: mircea you are sick...
mircea_popescu: right now ?
mircea_popescu: !up xuthus
xuthus: yep right now with your toy images
mircea_popescu: i didn'ty make it!
mircea_popescu: i merely report. to inform and entertain! im thye fucking gray lady over here.
xuthus: then you are forgiven
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37450 @ 0.00042221 = 15.8118 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can only speak for my case, but yes, the culinary shops sell NO2. where i live - in small cylinders approx. the size of a shotgun shell. i know full well which gas it is, because my sole use of it is in a miniature cutting torch.
mircea_popescu: so war on drugs that are powders ? gases are ok ?
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: "Inflammable Means Flammable? What A Country!" ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: laughers can get all the laughing gas they could wish for, yes. i often see these bottles - emptied - lying on the kerb, fallen out of upturned student house dumpsters.
mircea_popescu: whoops... in which we find tlp has 75% fewer comments than trilema over twice the period ? this sucks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i lived there i'd prep my girls with a literful of it in the rectum before going to a student party in one opf those cramped apts like they do.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for all i know, this is precisely how it is used.
mircea_popescu: kinda discretely fart while standing, right in the face of seated ppl.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and n2o not no2
mircea_popescu: right, no2 can't even exist.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> so war on drugs that are powders ? gases are ok ? << don't forget plants
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: likes plants
thestringpuller: i kno i do
ben_vulpes: slander!
thestringpuller: :( i thought we were bff ben_vulpes
thestringpuller: I was gonna visit you up in the great NW when I was out in SF in March since its a train ride away.
thestringpuller: I guess no beers.
ben_vulpes: still can if you want to
ben_vulpes: just...slander
thestringpuller: so you don't like plants? I knew you were a 100% carnivore.
thestringpuller: forks! not knives!
asciilifeform: 'medieval' pear << a gear puller is almost precisely a pear. visit a bicyclist's shop.
mircea_popescu: ;;google Frederick Davidson, 36, grad student in engineering at San Diego State, shoots three professors at his dissertation defense.
gribble: San Diego State University shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Frederick Davidson | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers: <>; 3 on San Diego State Faculty Fatally Shot - Los Angeles Times: < (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: talk about a fckin defense.
mircea_popescu: ;;google Dec. 6, 1989: Gamil Gharbi, 25, engineering student at the University of Montreal, kills 13 women and wounds others (he released the men.)
gribble: The Last Psychiatrist: University Shootings: I'm Sure It's All Just A ...: <>
mircea_popescu: nubbins` also 2nd wave reaction ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: this reminds me of d00d who attacked guy with a katana at Tech. <<
mircea_popescu: dude so backward can't even get semis ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: close quarters, unskilled hands, unarmed target - blade has something to recommend itself over pistol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00040839 = 2.6545 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the katana is strictly useful to the skilled hands.
mircea_popescu: the ak-47... less strictly so.
mircea_popescu: it was made for russians after all :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strictly... to the skilled hands << against bare flesh ?
mircea_popescu: (for instace : it's trivial to get a blade stuck. say in the rib cage.
mircea_popescu: also trivial to break it, say in the lumbar spine.
mircea_popescu: etc etc. one who's never butchered - say game - doth not readily feel the difficulty of the problem)
mircea_popescu: but anyway, humans aren't "bare flesh" in the sense of, overgrown squid. it's really quite well designed a mechanical apparatus. not least designed to... withstand swords.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps the ancient art of 'sword test' will be revived one day.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, anybody with a kitchen knows that 'meat' isn't strictly flesh, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes except one pound of prime rib is a) one pound rather than one hundred - and quantity has a quality all of its own - for instance it won't likely spit blood in your eyes ; b) already intensively prepared. for instance ? skin removed.
mircea_popescu: a large part of the problem is similar to why you can't shoot fish worth a crap. skin, muscle, fatand bone have widely variant refractive indexes.
PeterL: mircea_popescu:right, no2 can't even exist. << does exist "reddish-brown toxic gas has a characteristic sharp, biting odor and is a prominent air pollutant."
assbot: Nitrogen dioxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
mircea_popescu: jesus my chemistry's totally forgotten.
PeterL: don't worry, you have me to correct you :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is a very entertaining comic book (yes) titled 'samurai executioner', about the life and times of a (loosely historic) fella who famously specialized in testing swords on whole bodies (alive and dead).
PeterL: would be funny if some derp snorted NO2 instead of N2O
mircea_popescu: they'd choke
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i learned of it from ilkka kokkarinen. despite the format, worth the evening or two to read.
PeterL: right, not funny for them, funny for us watching
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unrelatedly, can you imagine that fetlife rebelled, and banned my... acount. but not the ip. i'm still in shock over the fact.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lulziez
mircea_popescu: sometimes i wonder if the internet itself shouldn't have a bus factor.
mircea_popescu: ie, osama killed off the us simply by flying a bomb disguised as a plane into the us financial nerve center disguised asa building.
mircea_popescu: is the next nut going to end the internet by killing 5k anon people that were 99.x% of all the people who understood how it works ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that 'grandfather time' has already clobbered most of'em
mircea_popescu: well, yes. because in 1970 there were like 100k.
mircea_popescu: down to 5k. like the bitcoin nodes.
mircea_popescu: "all is fine, don't worry, throw LOCs by the thousand million, because it's like a truck, it can hold anything
mircea_popescu: and it's worth doing it for your idiotic "national interests" of trying to hide useful bugs in the morass"
mircea_popescu: in short : once sociopathology is identified, it's god damned everywhere.
PeterL: and it makes work for derpy coders
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of which, gnat built and functions on another box (presently i lack the time to investigate why, but will eventually say)
mircea_popescu: PeterL who all rely on an ununderstood externality.
mircea_popescu: PeterL for some reason i had thought N is trivalent and somehow this made n2o possible but no2 impossible
mircea_popescu: i guess esther n link
mircea_popescu: or how do you call the double link again ?
PeterL: double bond?
mircea_popescu: like acetylene, what's that ?
PeterL: well, there are plenty of compounds that don't have perfect octets for all the atoms
mircea_popescu: ok but generally two hydrocarbons united by a double link at some point are called something no ?
PeterL: ethylene
PeterL: alkene
PeterL: alkyne has triple bond
mircea_popescu: erryday i's learn things i used to know.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: this is how I feel when I listen to your stories MP.
thestringpuller: This channel reminds me of someone holding court.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23773 @ 0.00042221 = 10.0372 BTC [+]
PeterL: thestringpuller: expound on the court idea?
thestringpuller: So I guess I visualize the IRC channel as a bunch of people huddled in some large beautiful room. A new person enters and one of the lords is like "you have permission to speak, what have you?" Which reminds me of congregations of days of old.
PeterL: zxs,;2ow[4f6latyrews/qsjde;iuop['f[p
PeterL: ack! 3yo atacking keyboard
mircea_popescu: hello precocious 3yo. signatures already ?
Adlai: Which reminds me of congregations of days of old. << except our doormen are robots
thestringpuller: lol. I can't wait til a large crypto company is left to a precocious 3yo.
PeterL: and there is not one king at the throne, it is more like a council, or the greek forum
thestringpuller: "I want toys. Lets build toys."
thestringpuller: PeterL: it's more feudal IMO than those examples, but same gist of things.
assbot: Sooo... FetLife is butthurt. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
ben_vulpes: i just tried to share a folder from one mac to another
ben_vulpes: functionality that's worked for what, a decade?
ben_vulpes: fucking nothing.
ben_vulpes: i can see the guy's laptop, can't even open the "dropbox".
ben_vulpes: he can't even see mine from his machine.
ben_vulpes: good job apple.
mircea_popescu: apple just works neh ?
ben_vulpes: way to break functionality that's just worked.
PeterL: does he have sharing enabled on his machine?
ben_vulpes: PeterL: i'm pretty savvy with the os x shit.
ben_vulpes: sharing is on.
ben_vulpes: on mine as well.
ben_vulpes: the amusing thing is how their "airdrop" shit doesn't work either.
ben_vulpes: .1 btc sez it's because i refuse to upgrade to 10.10
mircea_popescu: im not taking that.
PeterL: I am still on 10.5, I don't know anything about the new versions
ben_vulpes: PeterL: kudos to you
ben_vulpes: i dismiss the upgrade notification each and ev-er-y day.
PeterL: not like I did it on purpose, now I can't get any new software
thestringpuller: airdrop is iffy
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: Yosemite is the best upgrade evah tho
thestringpuller: that Hand-Off
thestringpuller: and SMS in iMessage for iPhone users
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44118 @ 0.00041815 = 18.4479 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: o scoopy's back ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fetlife article << mega-lol!
mircea_popescu: ya srsly.
mircea_popescu: someone drop it on hn, maybe the folk are bored and looking for a rehash of 2005's internet politics ?
ben_vulpes: reusable code means code you can copy and paste elsewhere in your codebase
mircea_popescu: shoul;dn't that really be a function/object/we ?
mircea_popescu: "Taking Iraq and President Bush as starting points, and examining the defense mechanisms we use to cope with both, yields the unsurprising conclusion that we are a society of narcissists.
mircea_popescu: While this discovery is familiar to readers of my blog, what might be a surprise is what this heralds for our society politically and economically. It isn't socialism, or even communism, as I had feared. It's feudalism. It's not 2007. It's 1066."
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Wrong Lessons Of Iraq ... ( )
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: wish I had bashed that.
thestringpuller: holy shit if that's real that's fucking hilarious
thestringpuller: "Wish I was up in that ass."
thestringpuller: I'm totally signing emails to my girl that way for now on.
mircea_popescu: from what i gather dr dre invented the modern, commercial burning man
mircea_popescu: ianae, maybe im being trolled.
nubbins`: just maybe
nubbins`: oh, my pogoplug arrived today!
nubbins`: so tiny
mircea_popescu: thjey're small aren't they
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45448 @ 0.00040944 = 18.6082 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Shame them, beat them, parent them. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: "Nobody’s really talking about it, but I suspect this is a wider trend: blogs aren’t dying, but they are significantly declining. 2015 might be a rough year."
pete_dushenski: uhuh right
pete_dushenski: i'm sure that using someone else's platform is "just as good"
pete_dushenski: and that shallow splashes in the kiddy pool are going to replace the ocean.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3155 @ 0.00075 = 2.3663 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: o ya, im sure lol.
mircea_popescu: course it's fairly obvious who would be claiming that, and why.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> shoul;dn't that really be a function/object/we ? << being a bit sarcastic here boss
mircea_popescu: gotta prop up that whatsap pool
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes oh kk
ben_vulpes: found thirty lines copied 3 times each
ben_vulpes: variable names changed
ben_vulpes: comment blocks left unchanged
ben_vulpes: oh the life of a webdev monkey
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.000421 = 21.45 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: "The U.S. National Security Agency has figured out how to hide spying software deep within hard drives made by Western Digital, Seagate, Toshiba and other top manufacturers, giving the agency the means to eavesdrop on the majority of the world's computers"
pete_dushenski: "It is not clear how the NSA may have obtained the hard drives' source code. Western Digital spokesman Steve Shattuck said the company "has not provided its source code to government agencies." The other hard drive makers would not say if they had shared their source code with the NSA. "
pete_dushenski: ya another wound for the nsa
pete_dushenski: and anyone doing business with the americans
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00042221 = 9.9219 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: a hard drive has source code?
mircea_popescu: well they run something on the embedded chips.
pete_dushenski: the firmware for it does
Adlai: my hard drives have tons of source code!
Adlai: is it that hard to imagine that nsa doesn't need the manufacturers' text source to backdoor their drives!?
Adlai: and even if they did, it's probably faster for them to steal it than ask nicely (not that the latter wouldn't work... it just takes time and paperwork)
mircea_popescu: how does the diddled source end up on the hdds ?
pete_dushenski: The group used a variety of means to spread other spying programs, such as by compromising jihadist websites, infecting USB sticks and CDs, and developing a self-spreading computer worm called Fanny, Kasperky said.
pete_dushenski: Fanny was like Stuxnet in that it exploited two of the same undisclosed software flaws, known as "zero days," which strongly suggested collaboration by the authors,
Adlai: i'm not this kind of 'hacker', but i gather that if you have root access to the computer, you can send arbitrary bits down the bus connected to the hdd
assbot: Russian researchers expose breakthrough U.S. spying program| Reuters ... ( )
mircea_popescu: Adlai yes, but that does not necessarily replace the firmware.
mircea_popescu: if it did... think about it.
assbot: Sprites mods - Hard disk hacking - Hooking up JTAG ... ( )
PeterL: thestringpuller: I figured out why your blog was killing scoopbot: there is no author field included
mircea_popescu: yes but you gotta hook the jtags...
punkman: the hdd manufacturers publish firmware updaters
mircea_popescu: that work off the data bus ?
punkman: pretty sure
mircea_popescu: that's pretty dumb eh.
Adlai: sorry, this one: "The Western Digital firmware upgrade tools proves this is possible: it's basically a tool you run under DOS to put new firmware to both the flash and the service area aka the reserved sectors of the hard disk."
assbot: Sprites mods - Hard disk hacking - Software flashing ... ( )
assbot: Firmware Updates for Seagate Products ... ( )
punkman: "Until recently, firmware updates for typical desktop and laptop computers were difficult and somewhat risky. This situation, in part, was based on a lack of friendly firmware download tools and operating system limitations. This situation has improved and Seagate now offers firmware updates as a routine matter for the general support of your Seagate drive."
mircea_popescu: i can not begin to conceive how this is an improvement.
pete_dushenski: PeterL: same with my articles then ? author needed ?
Adlai: improvement... because the ceo gets fewer phone calls from usg
PeterL: no pete_dushenski, I still don't know why yours are failing
Adlai: they can backdoor the drive without the ceo having to patch usg through to the cto
pete_dushenski: let this go down in history as a great mystery
Adlai: it's because PeterL doesn't beat scoopbot in public, instead berating the authors
pete_dushenski: like why suleiman didn't try to conquer vienna again
pete_dushenski: Adlai: ha!
pete_dushenski: give scoopbot an old man haircut
pete_dushenski: teach that indignant fuck who's boss
Adlai: spraying water on a puppy's face works wonders, has anybody tried that with brats?
PeterL: I sprayed my cat a couple times to keep her from walking on the dining room table, never tried it with my kids
Adlai: you managed to train a cat!?
Adlai: they must not make them like they used to
mircea_popescu: it's generally better to talk to children
PeterL: well, "train" as in she does not do that one thing which I liked least
Adlai: where is mircea_popescu and what have you done with him!?
PeterL: who here has the most kids?
mircea_popescu: you and mike_c have each one afaik, that being teh record.
pete_dushenski: cazalla has a pair iirc
PeterL: I only have 3 so far
mircea_popescu: cazalla only 1 no ?
pete_dushenski: you're probably right
pete_dushenski: 3 takes the cake then
mircea_popescu: only 3 ? dude, you kidding, you're the guy the biological survival of the english speaking world relies on if you have 3. what only/
cazalla: i only have the 1
PeterL: well, only as in I might have more later, and two of my siblings have more than me
cazalla: first and last
mircea_popescu: is it fun ?
pete_dushenski: cazalla: lol colour me shocked
cazalla: it can be lots of fun
PeterL: making kids is fun
Adlai: there should be #bitcoin-asslings with hand-held log readings and condescension seminars
mike_c: i have 1.5
cazalla: pete_dushenski, how do you feel about actually letting the little shits in the playground run amok so that you can gauge how much of a pussy your own kids are if they don't stand up to him?
PeterL: how do you have half a kid?
mike_c: bun in the oven
mircea_popescu: PeterL is this due to some sort of religious belief or just personal preference ?
PeterL: religious belief? more of a cultural thing
pete_dushenski: cazalla: not sure that would determine my kids' pussiness one way or another
pete_dushenski: it may be energetically cheaper to ignore the tard
cazalla: pete_dushenski, well he is either going to turn around and smack the other kid upside the head or allow another kid to hen peck him
PeterL: but yes, a few families at church bigger than mine
pete_dushenski: cazalla: or move to the other side of the playground
pete_dushenski: or ask to go home
cazalla: pete_dushenski, or smash the kid and have him move instead
cazalla: i am inclined to let kids sort out their own drama anyway, turns out they usually end up friends by the next day anyway
pete_dushenski: i'm not advocating for helicoptering
pete_dushenski: cazalla: i could see that
pete_dushenski: as many relationships start
pete_dushenski: guy teases girl, they end up dating, etc
cazalla: well, that's more teenagers
Adlai: anybody read perez's "Technological Revolutions and Financial Capital" ?
cazalla: as i see it, the problems begin when parents/teachers get involved and start teaching the kids it is better to seek out an adult to deal with the bully than hit back and sort it out yourself
Adlai: oh we're discussing Ender's Dilemma now
mircea_popescu: cazalla that's kinda how it goes yes.
mike_c: physically fighting bullies has a short lifespan. when you get to high school they get a lot stronger.
cazalla: mike_c, that's what friends are for, real friends, the ones with balls, the ones who will grab his arms from behind while you sock him a couple times
cazalla: what do i know though, only went to naughty boys school for 6 months :P
mike_c: hehe. it's a strategy i suppose.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61594 @ 0.00042542 = 26.2033 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71750 @ 0.00043228 = 31.0161 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: !up copumpkin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31700 @ 0.00043646 = 13.8358 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: researching an article and you know what would be good? a wiki of bitcoin companies, who was involved, when they launched/closed etc etc, edited and maintained by a select few
mike_c: somebody was doing that..
mike_c: BingoBoingo: that was you!
mircea_popescu: it would be good. if you have the time/energy, cazalla, it would work well as a companion to qntra.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like that arrington thing worker, we its name was
mike_c: crunchbase
cazalla: crunchbase?
mircea_popescu: right that.
mircea_popescu: huge workload tho.
thestringpuller: scoopbot /wind 12
mike_c: smaller if it's crowdsourced
mike_c: a million eyes makes everything easy!
mike_c: but seriously, if there were an L2 editable repository (like the b-a wiki), I'm sure multiple people would contribute
PeterL: aha, it worked!
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Pretty sure I threw in the towel because sources that needed consulted were threatening brain damage
lobbes: So getting ZNC configured to use SSL ended up being a great 'introduction project' for learning some of the basics of linux. I would recommend to all the other n00bs out there
cazalla: i actually like the idea, i might brainstorm some ideas and see what i come up with, start by cherring picking the easier topcis such as exchanges
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: Child soldiers make the best kids.
pete_dushenski: i'll take your word for it ;)
pete_dushenski: jokes aside, soldiers are obedient and dedicated
pete_dushenski: they appreciate authority and understand hierarchy
pete_dushenski: so i suppose child soldiers would make decent kids
mircea_popescu: lobbes wd.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39466 @ 0.00043797 = 17.2849 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: anyone able to recommend wiki software?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is using something on b-a wiki
mike_c: why not just use the b-a wiki? It already has limited editors.
mike_c: unless it's meant as seo fodder for qntra i guess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70900 @ 0.00043797 = 31.0521 BTC [+]
cazalla: mike_c, that is specific to #b-a moreso than Bitcoin in general isn't it? and anyway, if i pursue this by myself in the short-mid term, it'll reflect on me instead of b-a website
mike_c: it is specific to bitcoin assets, yes :) History of bitcoin companies seems appropriate. But I think it mostly depends on how much help you want.
mike_c: If you want a bunch of people to contribute, the wiki is there. If you basically want to do it yourself, then sure, put it wherever.
mike_c: It certainly would tie in with qntra.
mircea_popescu: it could work as a wiki or as a category on qntra i ugess.
thestringpuller: lol furries.
BingoBoingo: Adlai: is it that hard to imagine that nsa doesn't need the manufacturers' text source to backdoor their drives!? << PC9000
Adlai is too busy doing the victory dance to look this up... he now has two scalpls running in the same lisp image and they're not stepping on eachother's toes
Adlai: last time i tried this, with a financier watching over my shoulder, his bot trod on mine, and after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, both irrevocably crashed... that was nearly 5 months ago. now it's working flawlessly :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55889 @ 0.00044511 = 24.8768 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: that netagio closing is amusing. I wonder what the real story behind it is
decimation: " Market share of Bitcoin trading globally continues to mirror Bitcoin adoption stages, with China leading the way with 67%, the US capturing 27% of all Bitcoin trading, the EU following with 2.5% and the UK with a stagnating 0.25%, mostly as a result of a lack of regulatory guidelines and UK banks withdrawing banking support from British Bitcoin businesses."
decimation: if those numbers are correct, I wonder why europe is so low?
mircea_popescu: mostly the result of shitty regulation environment and uk people being idiots.
mircea_popescu: decimation europeans are by and large exactly like usians, ie, monolinguistic.
mircea_popescu: with the added disadvantage that they speak obscure languages
decimation: the goldmoney people (who invested in netagio) seem to know what they are doing
decimation: 'monolinguistic' in the sense that their opinion was fixed by harvard ca. 1945?
mircea_popescu: tbh, that 67/27/2.5/0.25 thing pretty much exactly matches the map of real gdp
mircea_popescu: no, in the sense that they simply do not know what happens if it wasn't written in hungarian
decimation: I thought that most germans and french spoke english at least
mircea_popescu: or w/e. danish
mircea_popescu: well, most americans speak french
decimation: heh, 'speak'
mircea_popescu: at least if you mean "most of the people makin > 250k and living in a big city"
decimation: but this very parochialism is why bitcoin ought to be attractive
decimation: 'maybe people outside hungary will use this new trade coin'
decimation: well, at any rate I give the netagio people credit - they unwound in an orderly way when the business wasn't working out
assbot: Puerto Madero: cómo es el lugar donde encontraron un cadáver incinerado | La muerte de Nisman - Infobae ... ( )
mircea_popescu: that's a new one
decimation: the plaza of the women?
mircea_popescu: i actually walked by there, in the middle of teh night maybe a month or two ago ?
mircea_popescu: but with naked rather than flaming woman in tow.
asciilifeform: hdd firmware << 1) snore. revealed definitively in doc. ~month ago, 2) proven as concept in 'linux on hdd head controller' ~2 yrs ago 3) experimented with privately by numerous folks, incl. yours truly, for a few years before 4) mostly a snore, even the best hdd diddle falls down in a raid5 system
assbot: Logged on 18-01-2015 04:50:24; asciilifeform: << the document concerning specific doctored firmware
mircea_popescu: i still don't see the wisdom of allowing diddling of firmware via data bus.
asciilifeform: whizzdom
mircea_popescu: yeah well...
asciilifeform: and now that the multivendor diddlomatic is out, winblows users will get what they so persistently beg for
asciilifeform: (by remaining winblows users, that is)
asciilifeform: it'll be in every ring0 turd on the planet before the year's out, possibly.
asciilifeform: (and yes, virtually all extant hdds are trivially reflashable.)
asciilifeform: of the handful of vendors whose drives i have studied personally, not one used a signature scheme of any kind, for example
asciilifeform: anyone who has ring0 on the box and can send raw ata cmds. can flash.
BingoBoingo: Reflashing firmware is one of those things that should require a goat sacrifice. Fort Mead would smell better.
asciilifeform: if there exists, somewhere, a maker of drives which demand signatures - usg is the first to get a copy of the key, to no one's great surprise
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what is the reason why it should not be a mask rom ?
asciilifeform: i can see no legit reason to ship a drive with buggy firmware.
asciilifeform: it is done, like the 'anal child' in mircea_popescu's essay, 'because they can get away with it'
asciilifeform: (not news) usg really loves rc5 and rc6 as non-attributable stream ciphers
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No particular reason. Makes Data recovery stuff easier with PC9000. Also creates a market for that kind of data recovery when firmware makes drive shit the bed.
asciilifeform: if these produce statistical anomalies (distinguishable from white noise) as rc4 is known to, this'd be a good avenue to search for 'mouse droppings' in the wild.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34400 @ 0.00044645 = 15.3579 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: re: diddling firmware via data bus << in band signaling strikes again
asciilifeform: updatable via the bus for the same reason as everything else: so lusers can update from winblows
asciilifeform: without even having to contemplate opening the chassis, in which, as is known, daemons live
decimation: of course, the drive manufacturers couldn't put a switch or toggle on the front of the computer
asciilifeform: It Would Be Wrong (TM)
decimation: in a similar way that allowing the user to enter their own cryptography via a separate front panel would be wrong
asciilifeform: ^ specifically prohibited in the export control statute
asciilifeform: by name.,
decimation: gee I wonder why
asciilifeform: 'It is not clear how the NSA may have obtained the hard drives' source code.' << wtf
asciilifeform: who needs the source?
BingoBoingo: So Free world chip foundries are what, 5 to 20 years out?
decimation: asciilifeform: it's impossible to analyze the rom contents of a simple microcontroller
asciilifeform: granted, some of the drives had weird variations on the usual themes (say, dual mips cores with oodles of proprietary coprocessor regs)
asciilifeform: but nothing especially 'martian'
decimation: hell I bet some of them have a flash chip sitting there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless you know something i don't, they're $maxint years out
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not even the theoretical basis for contemplating such a thing, presently exists.
asciilifeform: decimation: most of'em.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: it's impossible to analyze the rom contents of a simple microcontroller << Once again PC9000. Russian product that basically lets anyone who can understand the interface su all over the hdd firmware.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no need for weird winblows crapware
decimation: yeah I was being sarcastic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87744 @ 0.0004482 = 39.3269 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: connect a ttl-to-serial voltage converter to the convenient debug pins, and have at it
asciilifeform: earlier today someone reposted the famous (~2yr.) link of demo where linux is installed on the head controller
decimation: there are many ways to map machine code to assembly to pseudo-c
asciilifeform: decimation: generally no one does this. folks read the asm straight
decimation: 'fits in head'
asciilifeform: ^ convenient illustration
asciilifeform: pulled it straight out of arse
asciilifeform: and $maxint more
asciilifeform: read with what?
asciilifeform: with one of these:
asciilifeform: ^ useful household tool, everyone should own
decimation: I would like to get a collection of 'chip clips'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: connect a ttl-to-serial voltage converter to the convenient debug pins, and have at it << PC9000 largely valued because drive plugs in to IDE or SATA ports in this ISA/(hopefully there's a PCI version by now) card. Boot to card. Diddle at leisure with curses interface. Most operations automated already.
decimation: asciilifeform: what do you think the best method would be to semi-permanently attach a lead to an smt chip pin? I tend to ruin the pad by soldering
decimation: I wonder if there's like a little mini-clamp that you can affix to a pin
asciilifeform: logic analyzers come with 'crocodiles' for single pins but no real use for high-pitched smt
asciilifeform: and no real use for high frequencies
BingoBoingo: So OpenBSD 0.7.2 qt build 17 hours without an OOM kill (returned to 512MB process limit a while back) Presently a June 15th, 2013. Seems the space for bastards to be introduced has shrank enough to make bastards moar manageable.
asciilifeform: gotta solder them or use a properly fitted clip like in the photo
asciilifeform: the soic-8 one pictures costs around $10.
decimation: yeah that's what I figured
ben_vulpes: Adlai: what's the goal of running multiple bots in the same lisp image?
ben_vulpes: what does it buy one?
Adlai: share code & data
ben_vulpes: ah ha
Adlai: remember, my "server" is a thinkpad ca 2002, so every cons counts
ben_vulpes: i'd no idea, actually.
ben_vulpes: re: bastards, has anyone experimented with the number of blocks requested?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90850 @ 0.00043356 = 39.3889 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: 'tis another knob to turn. if instead of rewriting the bastard storage mechanism, one could leverage the network protocol to reduce the number of bastards per wad sent over the wire, it might alleviate some pain.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: regardless of what else, the unbounded data structure has to go
BingoBoingo sad Tadpole laptops still sell for effectively $maxint
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's a 'not whether death, but when' sorta thing
assbot: Tadpole RDI General Dynamics Ultrabookiii UltraSPARC Solaris Unix Laptop | eBay ... ( )
asciilifeform: a bit much even for most museums.
asciilifeform: you can get any lisp machine ever made, for example, with a crate of parts to last you a lifetime, for half of this
BingoBoingo: Seriously
asciilifeform: mega-lol in the 'faq' on that listing ^
asciilifeform: 'QUESTION: Are you insane? Are you stupid? No one would ever pay this much for a laptop! You should sell it to me for $10 because it is so old and worthless. / ANSWER: Contrary to your opinion, I sell several of these machines per week. These machines are used for many reasons including: / Government & Military projects ...'
assbot: Sun Ultra 80 Server Quad 450MHz 4GB Memory 73GB HD | eBay ... ( )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my uni threw out pallets of these
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One Uni I attended at last visit earlier this year still has lab full of its wimpier contemporary
asciilifeform doesn't see the appeal of closed source unixen, no matter how he tries
asciilifeform: regardless of on what chip, etc.
BingoBoingo: That lab "engineering building Floor one at SIU Carbondale, forget which wing" still solaris lab. I like the hardware though for "lives forever" and other unixen run fine
BingoBoingo: WHat lab is full of << Not same price as Ultra 80 which is twice the processors of this one
assbot: Sun Ultra 60 Workstation 2X 450MHz 2GB RAM 73GB HD | eBay ... ( )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the best way to get something like this is to be there when folks are throwing them out by the tonne
asciilifeform: e.g., when i did
BingoBoingo: I'm waiting for them to hit the dumpster
BingoBoingo: Don't know if they ever will
BingoBoingo: Connects on campus have yet to send the flag and since on every visit lab still intact I assume they aren't slacking
asciilifeform fucking hates slowaris
asciilifeform: the boxes were ok.
asciilifeform: the folks running ancient closed-source unixen today do so 'not from a good life'
asciilifeform: but because forced to on account of working for usg or having to use some likewise closed turdware (usually also because, ultimately, usg)
asciilifeform: or, i suppose, archaeologists
BingoBoingo: Thankfully other Unixen work on the boxes
asciilifeform: ^ vms, for instance, is an interesting os - conceptually, and i have it one one of my 'alpha'
BingoBoingo: Quest for "real-ish computer" which can handled contemporary amounts of RAM and HDD space is arduous search
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: realize, if you get off modern turdware (incl. graphical www), you almost certainly don't need so much as 1GB for anything
asciilifeform: unless you're into physics sims
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Blockchain parsing
asciilifeform: the entire ussr never had, quite likely, 1g of ram between it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what do you need to do with the blockchain that can't be done 1G at a time ?
asciilifeform: (just picked this number more or less arbitrarily)
BingoBoingo: More RAM makes Electrum server more feasile. Not to run the server for the wallet mind you, but because of the queryable database of blockchain data.
decimation: "asciilifeform doesn't see the appeal of closed source unixen" << I see the appeal of actual people maintaining a unix, closed or open
Adlai: somehow git gets by without an in-memory index, i wonder how!
asciilifeform: slowaris is maintained somewhere ?
asciilifeform: or hpux ?
decimation: not anymore, but in its day it sorta was
BingoBoingo: Open Indiana et al
Adlai: ( `ls .git/objects` reveals how)
decimation: although the rumor I heard back then was that most of the 'smart guys' working on solaris were spending their working days trying to unravel the gordian knot of kernel locks
asciilifeform: while everyone knows the caveats of the 'million fly eyes', the concept of closed source os is really dead forever - as far as thinking folks are concerned
decimation: asciilifeform: also, the 'spiritual heir' of solaris is maintained by those 'joyent' people
asciilifeform: lol yes
BingoBoingo: Shame the solaris 10 with the SMF turd introduced was the only "open" one and likely inspired so many systemdevaintisms
asciilifeform: decimation: corpses don't get to decide what to be eaten by, ants, vultures, cannibals
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54942 @ 0.00043273 = 23.7751 BTC [-] {3}
decimation: asciilifeform: the concept of a closed design chip is dead forever too
decimation: doesn't stop it from being undead
BingoBoingo: <decimation> although the rumor I heard back then was that most of the 'smart guys' working on solaris were spending their working days trying to unravel the gordian knot of kernel locks << But as an Oracle turd they can now break whatever they want in the name of handling one database faster.
asciilifeform: until ic can be fabbed in a kitchen - it's alive
decimation: can fab a board full of 74xx logic :)
Vexual: Im not melting silcon in mine.
Vexual: Aluminum was bad enough
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So killed Dbus this weekend on my OpenBSD install. Only thing asking for DBUS when invoked is Emacs, works fine without DBUS though.
decimation: I'm surprised dbus comes with openbsd at all
BingoBoingo: decimation: Mtier and Gnome
decimation: ah so it's in a 'port'
BingoBoingo: Mtier = Golden toilet company that sells exportable installs of desktop systems for oil rigs et al makes Gnome a centerpiece of their OpenBSD desktop solution.
BingoBoingo: Mtier makes many of the OpenBSD port
BingoBoingo: so when they make ports, dbus
decimation: I don't get the general preference for gnome over kde
BingoBoingo: I don't understand either. XFCE straddles the line of minimum/maximum desktop I can tolerate given my small screen size and clumsy fingers keeping me off of leaner solution.
Vexual: smaller bubbles whip the cream
BingoBoingo: My interface requirements consist of works on 11.6" screen and useable past ETOH LD50
Vexual: Is that right bb nitrogen makes smaller bubbles?
BingoBoingo: Vexual: Nitrogen requires far stronger (more expensive) cans to contain same whipping.
BingoBoingo: !up nubbins`
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 17:43:06; mircea_popescu: i guess this drama's dried up, need to move on to something else to keep the btc price up.
BingoBoingo: And of all of the software I've set up on the OpenBSD install here fucking emacs is the only one that throws messages at the terminal when I invoke it because DBUS is dead.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90639 @ 0.00044135 = 40.0035 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 231511 @ 0.00045892 = 106.245 BTC [+] {5}
mike_c: hm. is it kosher for two nicks in the wot to have the same gpg key?
assbot: The Wolf's Den: A Prediction: 2020 the year of (PC-)BSD on the desktop ... ( )
BingoBoingo: ^ For the people who have not suffered this PC-BSD is equivalent to a 90's era Winblows reskinning. Ubuntism brough to FreeBDSM.
Adlai: mike_c: i'd rephrase that as "is it kosher to associate a single wot node with multiple nicks" ie ratings to nicks sharing a gpg key should apply to both equally
nubbins`: !s pogo from:asciilifeform
assbot: 51 results for 'pogo from:asciilifeform' :
nubbins`: asciilifeform what state's your beast in now?
Vexual: Does blockchain still dl from a single source?
nubbins`: afaik
mike_c: Adlai: yeah, but that's not how it's done. so it seems fishy to me.
Adlai: ;;google that's just the way it is
gribble: Bruce Hornsby & the Range - The Way It Is - YouTube: <>; Tupac - Changes (That's Just The Way It Is) + Lyrics - YouTube: <>; That's Just the Way It Is - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <'s_Just_the_Way_It_Is>
Adlai has never heard of bruce hornsby before
mike_c: kakobrekla: any opinion?
Vexual: Just tupac?
mike_c: i thought fingerprint would/should be unique
Vexual: Could perhaps
Adlai: let's take a step back. the wot should be about who trusts whom, and trust is verified on the basis of signatures. i see no reason why node identity should be based on anything other than signing keys.
Adlai: you can have a wot (and anything built on top, such as gossipd) without nicks entering the equation
mike_c: well, that's the pgp wot
BingoBoingo: <Adlai> let's take a step back. the wot should be about who trusts whom, and trust is verified on the basis of signatures. i see no reason why node identity should be based on anything other than signing keys. << limit in wetware when parsing single identity multiple nicks
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's an emacs-23 port, iirc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: clean.
Adlai: let the user assign nicknames, let wot nodes publish a signed message of which nicks they use, let wot nodes produce signed lists of which nicks they trust as which nodes... endless possibilities can be built on top, but why make nicks part of the fundamental model? they're not first class citizens. keys are.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: what state's your beast in now << stuck on crafting the ramdisk (in-ram root fs) for netbsd. as of a week ago. haven't the time, presently, to do anything
mike_c: because we know each other by nick?
mike_c: and are more likely to change keys than nicks
Adlai: "math is hard!"
Adlai: i guess the question is, what purpose does the wot serve? is it just a way of programming the congregation's robotic doormen, or is it something more?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ^ specifically prohibited in the export control statute << except the us exports diddly squat. it imports everything
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: So Free world chip foundries are what, 5 to 20 years out? << about that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for extra lulz, the statute applies to u.s. subjects going off the reservation and working elsewhere
asciilifeform: just as much as to those inside the razor wire
mircea_popescu: yeah right.
asciilifeform: statutorily
asciilifeform: (as the tax code)
asciilifeform: in practice, naturally, 'not caught - not thief'
asciilifeform is asked re: chip fabs question with some regularity. is quite accustomed to explaining how it is in many ways a considerably trickier and more delicate affair than, say, a factory of atomic bombs
mircea_popescu: not really. it was a big deal for as long as miniaturization was going strong, 1950 - 2000
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, moore's dead, and the thing will suffer the exact fate of printing.
mircea_popescu: ubiquitous, cheap.
asciilifeform: refining and slicing Si boules is not getting cheaper
asciilifeform: nor is a sterile floor
asciilifeform: none of the relevant tech has changed an iota since day one
asciilifeform: wish it were otherwise, but 'wishes aren't horses'
Adlai: but there's an inflection point. the deskjet printer would have seemed equally wonderous to a (human) printer in 1700 and in 1850, despite the former being twice as far away
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same could have been said about printing, 1600 to 1800.
mircea_popescu: but then...
asciilifeform: printing was more or less the same from herr gutenberd right up to linotype
mircea_popescu: quite Adlai's point. for as long as there's refinement available, it goes one way
asciilifeform: *gutenberg
mircea_popescu: once the wall is hit, it goes the other way.
decimation: eh, I don't see how the tech is getting cheaper either
mircea_popescu: and electronics hit their wall, half a decade or so ago.
asciilifeform: the equivalent of a 'printer' for ic would be something like an ion beam gun station
asciilifeform: but sans the $maxint of high vacuum golden toilet
asciilifeform: i've some theoretical work, but it remains on paper
mircea_popescu: nah, say by 2030-2050 you will be able to buy one of today's ic printers in the size of a 3d printer
asciilifeform: there is also a titanic pile of usg grantsmanship on the subject
mircea_popescu: and for a comparable btc cost.
asciilifeform: (mostly safe to ignore)
decimation: how is the 'ic printer' gonna grow you a pure si substrate?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: an fpga that isn't a usg-proprietary piece of shit would go a long way
asciilifeform: and is existing tech
mircea_popescu: how is the car gonna grow you distilled hydrocarbonds, decimation ?
mircea_popescu: you'll buy them at costco, like you buy smoked herring today.
decimation: in your porta-cleanroom?
Adlai: or like you buy PLA for your 3d printer
mircea_popescu: comes in a container, you hook it to the machine.
asciilifeform: i'll note that it is possible to use substrates other than si
asciilifeform: e.g., sapphire
asciilifeform: presently - platinum toilet
mircea_popescu: !up Jones4
asciilifeform: but in principle has advantage that you can -grow- a crystal
decimation: disappointingly my costco doesn't sell smoked herring
decimation: only shitty off-brand sardines
mircea_popescu: decimation what srsly ?!
mircea_popescu: i guess you'll prolly be left out of the future si trade too...
decimation: finding proper kippers is difficult in the us
mircea_popescu: ^ futurology right there.
asciilifeform: the hardest thing to score where i live is proper sprats
decimation: 'king oscar' for me
asciilifeform: but quite doable if you know where.
mircea_popescu: so, is the trilema server going to be closed down by the evil forces of "bitlove, llc" ? what's the crowd wisdom say ?
decimation: the median usian has a strange aversion to tinned fish of all kinds
mircea_popescu: by the way, i scored a major victory in the battle with culinary darkness.
mircea_popescu: salt pickles!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48550 @ 0.00043969 = 21.3469 BTC [-]
decimation: asciilifeform: they sell sprats on amazon for $$$
decimation: aren't pickles already salt?
mircea_popescu: there's two ways to pickle : in vinegar and in salt.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> decimation what srsly ?! << Pickled hering much more common is USia. We care to stock for our Joos but not eastern Europeans
mircea_popescu: the former's basically fast food. salt pickles are fermented.
decimation: interesting
mircea_popescu: decimation is not fro mthe us ?
asciilifeform: decimation: amazon !?!!
decimation: I'm from the us
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: More RAM makes << there's a legitimate "keep blockchain on ramdisk" thing. sadly... it won't be feasible. it's luxury.
decimation: BingoBoingo: where do you find it? none of the groceries around here stock kippers
BingoBoingo: decimation: Of all places... Wal mart
BingoBoingo: decimation: Not proper mind you, but a tease.
assbot: : Adro Riga Smoked Sprats, 5.6-Ounce (Pack of 12) : Packaged Meats And Seafoods : Grocery & Gourmet Food ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: while everyone knows the caveats of the 'million fly eyes', the concept of closed source os is really dead forever << agreed.
asciilifeform: about 2x the cost of ordinary 'ethnic' grocers in wash.,d.c. area
decimation: asciilifeform: do you have a favorite brand
asciilifeform: incidentally you can get -proper- sprats even in d.c. city limits
asciilifeform: in, of all places, 'mozart' (german grocer)
asciilifeform: near gallery pl. metro stop.
asciilifeform: about four bux a tin
decimation: yeah I've been there
decimation: actually a sprat is the same thing as a 'brisling'
asciilifeform: decimation: brand << anything from riga. but beware fakes with 'synthetic smoke'
decimation: I eat those regularly, king oskar brand
asciilifeform: not certain if same thing
assbot: European sprat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
asciilifeform: i've not had all possible spart-alikes
asciilifeform: *sprat-
mircea_popescu: mike_c: hm. is it kosher for two nicks in the wot to have the same gpg key? << notrly. is this observable ?
decimation: the 'king oskars' have two layers of little fish packed in oil
decimation: but not smoked, I would like to try them smoked
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2015 01:12:18; kakobrekla: because split personalities belong to #bitcoin-insane-asylum
cazalla: yall got any of dem rollmops?
mircea_popescu: "Consider this: In the past 10 years has the distribution you run changed significantly in what it offers over other distributions? I think you'll find the answer is largely no. I do have to give a shout out to openSUSE for the OBS, but otherwise I've used my desktop in the same exact way that I have always used it within the continuity of distribution X,Y, or Z since I started using them. Distributions simply aren't f
mircea_popescu: ocused on desktop features, they're leaving it up to the DEs to do so."
mircea_popescu: wait, this is a bad thing now ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Taged mega lol for a reason
assbot: European sprat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
decimation: asciilifeform: me too
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00043969 = 4.5508 BTC [-]
Adlai: the more i think about it, the more it seems that nicks are a second layer on top of the wot, provided by specific wot nodes - either a centralized nick->node mapping like assbot, or individual gossipd configs
Adlai: maybe i should stop thinking
decimation: sometimes they sell at safeway
decimation: asciilifeform: did you know that the 'national archives' nearby your house contains microfiche of captured WWII nazi records?
asciilifeform: not surprised
asciilifeform: 'archives 2'
assbot: Captured German and Related Records on Microfilm ... ( )
asciilifeform: good bit of nsa pile in there also, according to legend
decimation: usg has decided that it would be better to charge you $0.6 per page to copy
decimation: and $125 per microfiche copy
asciilifeform: would happily pay this for the nsa papers, but they are not (presently) listed for sale.
decimation: "Records of the German Foreign Office Received by the Department of State. Microfilm Publication T120. 5,485 rolls. (Includes records of the German Foreign Office, 1867-1945, and records of the Reichs Chancellery, 1919-1945)." << $685k
mircea_popescu: pay, put online. total income ? 0.6 per page, 125 per film
decimation: Why not digitize?
mike_c: (1632,'D515F7D3246A17BC20FDFD17B78C0531B3742186',1307807825,'chashew',1293858000,0),
mike_c: (1808,'D515F7D3246A17BC20FDFD17B78C0531B3742186',1308068811,'bolzer',1293858000,0),
decimation: I guess $685k is 'note from stalin'
asciilifeform: a usg 700k quote magicks into $0 for the right folks, yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what is remarkable in the above clips ?
mircea_popescu: who snorts cum ?!
asciilifeform: assumed it was ordinary coke, and grainy photo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50250 @ 0.00043969 = 22.0944 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: looks kinda wet to me
BingoBoingo offers for people stuck in USia smelt from the great lakes as small inexpensive oilfish to play with by the pound
decimation: actually there's already a business where people 'resell' 'free' usg records -
decimation: mormons provide 'free' labor 'digitizing' ancient handwriting
decimation: so you can text-search census records
mike_c: mircea_popescu: two lines above are one example.
mike_c: dunno who chashew and bolzer are, but they have the same key.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is this bs.
mircea_popescu: well, im pretty sure assbot won't allow it for the future. i didn't know gribble did
mircea_popescu: nanotube ^ can two nicks have same gpg fingerprint ?
assbot: Doctor Grumpy in the House: Skool Nerse Time ... ( )
asciilifeform: l33t35t german
decimation: asciilifeform: clearly what you need to do is fashion a tool to 'capture' the microfiche screen
asciilifeform: everybody who wants, is probably using pNohe as 'minox' already.
asciilifeform has never yet been to a library where patrons are arse-searched, but there's always a first
decimation: it's odd that google didn't see fit to send an intern or two over there to digitize what the national archives has
mircea_popescu: im sure that's not what's the impediment
mircea_popescu: ;;google fetlife butthurt
gribble: Butt Hurt Report Form - Scribd: <>; Hurt Feelings Report - Scribd: <>; How to make friends on FetLife for the hard of thinking - Not Just Bitchy: <>
mircea_popescu: so distinct...
mircea_popescu: !up mmeyer
ben_vulpes: mmeyer, eh?
mmeyer: hi
mmeyer: quite in here
decimation: from whence do you hail?
ben_vulpes: <mmeyer> quite in here << you did make it, yes :P
mmeyer: I'm confused, new to irc
ben_vulpes: !up Vexual
BingoBoingo: <mmeyer> I'm confused, new to irc << Many people are indeed new compared to IRC. Meat odometer just rolled over and yet IRC is still older than me
decimation: mmeyer: what made you want to join #bitcoin-assets? It's interesting to learn where folks come from.
mmeyer: I searched and it said good conversation in here, from MN/USA
mmeyer: also have some interest in bitcoin
decimation: ah, well this is the right place to learn
decimation: if you go to in your browser you can read the past logs of this channel - it is recommended reading
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log ... ( )
ben_vulpes: mmeyer: "it" << what, though?
ben_vulpes: these unqualified pronouns don't work too well
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Wrong Lessons Of Iraq ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Under 100,000 blocks left. OOM kill happened in the interim
mircea_popescu: "Here's an example I fear no one will understand. The Iranians took 15 British soldiers hostage. The soldiers surrendered without a fight (ironically, so as not to start an international incident), and then pretended to go along with the Iranians. They did the song and dance "we are bad, we are imperialists, Ahmadinejad is good, we're sorry, thanks for being so nice to us" and were eventually released. So I'm sure t
mircea_popescu: hose soldiers were thinking, "look, I know who I am, I know I'm not a coward, I'm not helping the Iranians, but I have to do whatever is necessary to get out of this mess." What they are saying is that they can declare who they are, and what they do has no impact on it. "I am a hero, regardless of how I act." That's the narcissist fallacy. Whatever they may think about themselves, the fact is that they did help the
mircea_popescu: Iranians, and they are not heroes. But I can see that it is ego protective, I can see why they might take this perspective."
mircea_popescu: so fucking on point it bleeds.
mircea_popescu: "Here's the part Americans can't get: why would Iran put them on TV when everyone is going to know it was forced? Unless you are saying that the Iranians, and only the Iranians, are so completely delusional that they actually believe the servicemen were thankful and apologetic, then this show had to appeal to some broader audience. Other people had to believe this was the real thing. Is it possible-- and I'm just
mircea_popescu: asking here-- that we are the only ones who don't believe these statements were meaningful?
mircea_popescu: In other words, is it possible that our enemies judge us by our actions, regardless of intent-- and if you support Ahmadenijad on TV, then that counts-- while we retreat into the narcissists' hideout of identity-as-declared, where any actions can be disavowed as "not who we are?""
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54234 @ 0.00043038 = 23.3412 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> In other words, is it possible that our enemies judge us by our actions, regardless of intent-- and if you support Ahmadenijad on TV, then that counts-- while we retreat into the narcissists' hideout of identity-as-declared, where any actions can be disavowed as "not who we are?"" << AKA argument by "FYIAD"
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:33; decimation: then I heard this podcast: << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they realize that eve
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:35; decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. "
BingoBoingo: ;;ud fyiad
gribble: | Aug 26, 2007 ... Top Definition. FYIAD. Fuck You, I'm A Dragon Originated in some lame back-and -forth furry argument, but when you think about it, it's a good ...
mircea_popescu: do you know what this guy was saying in MAY 2007 ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70400 @ 0.00043969 = 30.9542 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: But now things are different. Not since the 1980s, and before that never, has there been this much M&A activity, share buybacks and privatization. While this boosts share prices in the short term, as privateers bid up the price in a takeover, there's a huge downstream cost: the company is no longer public. You don't get to profit from it unless you work for it. Each privatized company, or the private equity firm
mircea_popescu: who owns it, becomes a little lord. You want money? They demand your service. It is the opposite of owning a stock, where you demand their service. It's more than just a concentration of wealth among the few. It is also a concentration of control, and, more importantly, risk. You may not be able to profit from it, but if something goes bad, for sure you'll be asked to pay for it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if metansa exists, that's why he disappeared : they hired him.
BingoBoingo: Didn't start reading him until fall 2008
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo quite exactly. "fuck you, i'm a dragon". "because i say so". you seen /search-and-destroy/ ?
BingoBoingo: I don't recall. I'm still deep in the libations that are getting me over the meat odometer rollover.
mircea_popescu: you absolutely gotta see this film.
assbot: Search and Destroy pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and happy bday yo!
mircea_popescu: do they have cake delivery where you live ?
BingoBoingo: Not delivery. Aunt made a delicious monster of a chocolate on chocolate recursive cake.
BingoBoingo: Had beef tongue for dinner.
mircea_popescu: o hey! cool!
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