Results 1 ... 148 found in all logged channels for 'drepper'
(pest) asciilifeform: for erry vuln the dreppers claim to fix, they introduce N new ones. once you know this, seeing dynamic linking anywhere near safety-critical proggy (or pretty much anywhere else) oughta induce gag reflex.
(pest) asciilifeform: (drepper et al of course not bothered to mention that 'upgrade' can ~introduce~ as well as patch hole..)
(pest) asciilifeform: ( musl being a sane replacement for glibc where drepper's vandlism isn't present and static linking worx 100% )
(pest) asciilifeform: PeterL: see logs. nominally 'for seekoority' but factually forced by drepper & his fellow nsa assets to help maintain vuln footprint
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: drepper's sabotage of static linking took place in glibc and nowhere else.
(trilema) ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:29:53 jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-05#1958950 - still worked, though that was on a musl gawk, perhaps it's special in a sufficiently different way. I don't have a drepper box around with that much disk atm. I'll believe it once blew up in some environment though.
(trilema) jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-05#1958950 - still worked, though that was on a musl gawk, perhaps it's special in a sufficiently different way. I don't have a drepper box around with that much disk atm. I'll believe it once blew up in some environment though.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: drepperized 'bash' dun belong on a floppy linux either imho
(ossasepia) jfw: whaack: I'm curious at least from an academic standpoint whether keksum will build on Mac. We'll see if it's true what I heard that they killed static linking even more than Drepper did. Simple Makefile change if so.
(trilema) asciilifeform: aking the proposition of free trade futile. Whether or not Drepper is aware of the political implications of the of his technical decision is irrelevant to the fact of their existance. Nevertheless, there is a belief by technologists “educated” at ITT and the public equivilants that software can exist outside of politics. As a result the US has a legal system that runs on Word, a financial system that runs on Excel, and a voting
(trilema) asciilifeform: for the l0gz: 'Years ago, a “technical” decision was made by a core gcc developer named Drepper to break static linking. This means that no useful binaries can ever execute on Linux without dynamically linking to certain libraries making the proposition of distributing signed binaries futile, making the proposition of secure software futile, making the proposition of Bitcoin futile, making the proposition of sound money futile, m
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( why should 8GB of 'drepper-os' or winblowz get 8GB of sram ? it'd be rather a penicillin for a corpse )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: this entire thing we're doing here is more of a hit on the femstate in computing than the original drepperisms systemv was a hit on the republic. we're turning the tables, i'd expect some reaction.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and i view esp the drepper thing very much in these terms, "we are dumb cunts deliberately and by design, and we will not excommunicate another dumb cunt irrespective of any considerations, because believe-women".
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( not that it would've made much diff -- e.g. drepper is certified author of no fewer than 3 open-and-shut sabotages, and still somehow 'contributing' as if nuffinhappened )
(trilema) asciilifeform: i dun see where drepperism wins in ~any~ version, vs. the ab initio and 10x moar compact musl.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( e.g. 'bash bug', also drepper , also via glibc )
(trilema) asciilifeform: when uncovered that drepper (maintainer of glibc) deliberately broke static linkage globally
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and even taking the epsilon% remaining, 99+% of when THAT crashed it was because fucking drepper & co "upgraded" some shit.
(trilema) asciilifeform: this was back when asciilifeform had nfi why trb wouldn't statically link, not yet found drepper's 'gifts'
(trilema) asciilifeform: it doesn't have much bearing on the problems faced by actual people, aside from drepper-extermination.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the dreppers can, demonstrably, fuck up anyffing, if you let'em build a chair, it'll have a spiked cock protruding. and maybe six.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "some people who don't give a shit made this slop out of something or the other" mcdrepperism.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: all that code SHOULD NOT have been shared. not with fucking red hat, not with fucking koch, not with fucking drepper and so on.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: drepperization, is a thing.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: dude. situation 1, as currently : you release code, mp like an idiot compiles it on ubuntu, jnow your code exists as a drepper mockery of itself. as far as the machine can tell, you asciilifeform are an idiot.
(trilema) asciilifeform: what is gained from having there exist a drepperized systemd thing ? or what am i missing
(trilema) mircea_popescu: but i mean... lookit, the author will make a static binary ; and who the fuck is going to make a drepper systemd thing ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( it doesn't come with gcc, it's a drepperism )
(trilema) ascii_lander: diana_coman: conventional (drepperistic)
(trilema) ascii_lander: then prolly you'll be wanting mean old drepperistic gentoo then.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "ulrich drepper's famous page on". famous ? really ? how the FUCK is anything drepper did even vaguely worth the mention, let alone "famous" ? oh, because pantsuits push it, ie http://trilema.com/2012/a-conversation-with-frank-zappa-ix/#selection-231.0-233.634 ? hurr!
(trilema) asciilifeform: and the 'bad spec' thing is part of multilayered shit sandwich, the general principle is that complexicrud accretes; the overflows, etc. follow naturally ( with helping hand from kochs, dreppers, et al as necessary )
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( picture the elephantine drepper glibc in every bin )
(trilema) asciilifeform: ang-st: asshole in C << koch, drepper, et al. but they're old and they ain't making more, for some reason.
(trilema) asciilifeform attempts a build of traditional stator trb inside netbsd ( as rotor is unnecessary there, there is no drepper glibc )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: a drepper shall be born.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674489 << sounds entirely like The Drepperization. which is very much the only american technology style left.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674489 << sounds entirely like The Drepperization. which is very much the only american technology style left.
(trilema) asciilifeform: or that glibc imports drepper's 0days for you
(trilema) asciilifeform: a certain drepperism sat for, what, 22 yrs.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the result of merely kicking out the current crop of dreppers is more raft than boat, it oughta be remembered
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633736 << this might actually be crucial ingredient in any drepper-safe item.
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: this was the original drepperist excuse for 'shadow banning' static linking, 'oh forget it, no MODERN!11 os has a stable abi'
(trilema) mircea_popescu: apparently they contain dependencies they aren't aware of. how does this happen, clumsy drepper hand edited them post facto ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: drepper is a 'ustard' ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: incidentally, if the various dreppers etcs actually had any friends, the whole rot wouldn't exist in the first place.
(trilema) asciilifeform: trinque: recall, the drepperites are getting ready to break glibc so that no moar clasical emacs.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: now let's do a practical exercise : produce a google query which results in the source of drepper's sha512
(trilema) mircea_popescu: Written by Ulrich Drepper, Scott Miller, and David Madore.
(trilema) asciilifeform: (y'know, where i stuffed bootable linux kernel + userland + trb into 5MB with 0 drepperola or poetteringola)
(trilema) mircea_popescu: which is why the republican strategy in sociopolitical cryptography is to isolate the nsa assets - the kochs and dreppers and schneiers + a bevy of small fry boecks etc. let them sit on hacker news and upvote each other to death, but otherwise, outside of the usg reservation, they may not opine and they may not be used as reference.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: dreppers and kochs and bears oh my
(trilema) asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc the one in gnupg is drepper's
(trilema) ben_vulpes: amusingly, sha512sum shows drepper as an author on this particular system
(trilema) asciilifeform: is openbsd in fact 'drepperized' after all ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: buildroot as i used it here, was a pill against drepperism
(trilema) asciilifeform: 0 meaningful redundancy, 0 authentication ( you have nfi whether you are talking to tmsr dns box or hitler at your isp closet ) , massively drepperistic codebase , generally turdalicious design in 1,001 ways.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: so is the conclusion here that "bash is bad for your karma" because "drepper told eberlein in 2007* that they only support bash over at libc" ? (*= https://www.sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2007-01/msg00042.html )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: wait, drepper what ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: drepper
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: koch, drepper, weimer (yes, i shit thee not, all three participated, grep for them in the credits) took great care to make this job as painful as can be.
(trilema) asciilifeform: in exactly the same style as everywhere else in drepperland
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:51 asciilifeform: if you subtract obvious drepperisms, 'comment commits' by genderfucks, etc. - you end up with circa-'90s mass every time.
(trilema) asciilifeform: if you subtract obvious drepperisms, 'comment commits' by genderfucks, etc. - you end up with circa-'90s mass every time.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've not yet succeeded in setting up a 100% de-drepperized openbsd.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ^ one in a series of many similar lulticles, which neglect to mention the inconvenient fact that folks use mechanical tabulators, vaxen, 8-inch floppies, SOLELY BECAUSE the available alternatives are microshit and drepper
(trilema) asciilifeform: merciless lustration of 'dreppers',
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Oh, it's just what Ubuntu is, see https://i.sli.mg/uga6Y7.png calves could not pass A4 challenge because drepper
(trilema) asciilifeform: whose key will you remove? drepper's ? which we never ~had to begin with~ !
(trilema) mircea_popescu: #This thing is made by drepper, and while it doesn't per se suck, it very likely lies.
(trilema) asciilifeform: there is a dedrepperized (experimental, musltronic) gentoo but it is VERY spartan
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw the mask set i published here will build a depoetteringized (though not dedrepperized) gentoo, which will stay that way. but various more or less essential items, e.g., 'wireshark', will not build.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "This patch also fixes a memory leak of opt.keyserver en passant." << first rule of koch, drepper, weiner & all nsa goons : ALWAYS bundle new vulns with memory leak fixes etc.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and the reason you picked tinyscheme over say ecl is...footprint? dreppers in ecl?
(trilema) asciilifeform: the idea is to categorically cut off the very possibility of drepper existing.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: besides, as per satoshi's argument ("no, don't bring it on"), might not be the smartest thing in the world to give drepper incentive to exist on bsd anyway
(trilema) asciilifeform: now rotor is not ~quite~ as necessary on bsd, because drepper is absent there. BUT we still need deterministic nailed-down toolchain, esp. for when we finally do the deterministic binary thing.
(trilema) phf: is that drepper quote?
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/prophet.shtml#An attempt of hostile takeover of glib << l0l drepper gold
(trilema) asciilifeform: but i suspect that the story is not meaningfully different from how drepper stole libc
(trilema) asciilifeform: generally it is a process resembling apiculture. no one individually orders a bee to pollinate a particular plant. bees - are introduced, do their thing. likewise dreppers.
(trilema) asciilifeform: drep drep drepper
(trilema) ascii_butugychag: also no prizes for this guess, but 100% of the 'power8' will be running poetteringola and drepperism
(trilema) ben_vulpes: I personally don't understand the reasons beyond "it's the right thing to do with the reference implementation, dummy. also, fuck drepper."
(trilema) asciilifeform: anyway drepper was drepper 20 yrs ago. today there are new dreppers. tomorrow there will be yet other dreppers.
(trilema) pete_dushenski wonders where bounty on drepper's head is if wuille is worth the trouble
(trilema) pete_dushenski: do you have a poster of drepper's face on your wall with a hitler stache, devil eyes, and a horns carved in ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: there are drepperisms on your box, whatever it might be, virtually guaranteed.
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349603 << wait till pete_dushenski remembers about drepper
(trilema) asciilifeform: it wasn't drepper, or poettering, somebody unknown
(trilema) asciilifeform spoke to brother of poettering, drepper, et al, and he replied 'wouldn't it be interesting if someone built a thing where people signed code with pgp and rated one another and...'
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-10-2015#1300862 << one sees disproportionate output from drepper, esr, etc., folks who spent the past 20+ yrs walking around in search of things to infect
(trilema) ascii_field: * Written by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@gnu.ai.mit.edu>, 1995. * * Heavily modified for GnuPG by <wk@gnupg.org> * << l0l
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Drepper was more Trypanosoma brucei than maggot
(trilema) mircea_popescu: the difference between linux and bitcoin is that gavin;s a laughingstock and erm is invited speaker, and hearn's barely a shitstain whereby drepper took a decade to be worked out of the thing.
(trilema) ascii_field: nah, idea is, drepper is a real live face on the murder of linux
(trilema) ascii_field: and what imaginary. drepper lives.
(trilema) ascii_field: poetteringisms, drepperisms, the whole lot.
(trilema) asciilifeform: (otherwise very spiffy, largely through having sat out the last 20 yrs of drepperization)
(trilema) asciilifeform: mats: drepper is not a talentless man. if he were, he'd be harmless.
(trilema) mats: I read some of dreppers 'what every programmer should know about memory' recently
(trilema) asciilifeform: now have to put in a whole paragraph of sed, tr, and other potentially drepperized utils
(trilema) asciilifeform: (instead of drepperola)
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 06-08-2015 21:20:41; ascii_field: priceless moment: when you realize that 'sha512sum' and related utils on your box were all authored by... ulrich drepper
(trilema) assbot: 10134 – Ulrich Drepper is a fucking dictator asshole ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5U8sT )
(trilema) ascii_field: priceless moment: when you realize that 'sha512sum' and related utils on your box were all authored by... ulrich drepper
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Cars fuckign cars, cats and dogs getting along. Drepper really did beat Linus on Glibc didn't he.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: It is a pretty big, pretty intentional seemign Drepperization
(trilema) asciilifeform: but no one will pay for, e.g., de-drepperization of bitcoin
(trilema) asciilifeform: the main allure, for me, was 1) drepper goes to the furnace where he belongs; no glibc 2) can switch cpu arch by turning a knob
(trilema) asciilifeform: yes, let's have winblowz, poettering, drepper, chinese capacitors, in reactor room.
(trilema) asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217330 << we vivisected drepper here on several occasions. he is ~the~ most accomplished publicly-known gavin thus far.
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:50:12; mircea_popescu: "Note, this is pretty much contrary to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin!
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "Note, this is pretty much contrary to what Ulrich Drepper reckons about static linking." << everywhere a gavin!
(trilema) ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216599 << release is of source, rather than binary, so not sure how much of a difference it makes for the release. but it'd be nice if folks were bashing their heads agains the wall to build rotor - a fully de-drepperized bitcoin - than the old stator, imho
(trilema) ascii_field: drepperization has touched more or less the entire known unixlike universe
(trilema) decimation: drepper presaged poettering
(trilema) assbot: Logged on 01-07-2015 14:49:54; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-06-2015#1181240 << the one thing left loose is that AFTER such, rms is not saying, to me or to anyone, "hey, drepper moved to the dark side, glibc was forked". the last thing you'd expect rms to be indicted for would be an inclination to "make things work" and fold for convenience rather than stand for principle. nevertheless...
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-06-2015#1181240 << the one thing left loose is that AFTER such, rms is not saying, to me or to anyone, "hey, drepper moved to the dark side, glibc was forked". the last thing you'd expect rms to be indicted for would be an inclination to "make things work" and fold for convenience rather than stand for principle. nevertheless...
(trilema) assbot: Not Ulrich Drepper (@drepperquotes) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1g3u4qR )
(trilema) assbot: Ulrich Drepper | LinkedIn ... ( http://bit.ly/1g3tjOo )
(trilema) ascii_field: anyway, if this thing is to be ran in background on various folks' boxes, it really has to be dedrepperized
(trilema) mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers. << kinda why everyone is reacting with so much disbelief at the sudden "this is not acceptable". they had been doing it forever, gavin as a marginally retarded peripheral agent of the idiocy got totally blindsided by an armed insurection. that we'd pursue it is i suppose plainly unthinkable, the sort of thing the rmcgraths of th
(trilema) mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gets a confirmed kill https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-hacker/1999-08/msg00050.html drepper's the enemy.
(trilema) asciilifeform: see the drepper link earlier today
(trilema) asciilifeform: linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers.
(trilema) asciilifeform: (and yes, as far as i can tell, the recent glibc pant-shitting was -also- drepper)
(trilema) ben_vulpes: who is drepper anyways?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: is drepper the shitgnome or did drepper find the thing?
(trilema) asciilifeform: it was drepper.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: decimation: re: glibc bug << was this an ulrich drepperism? << quite likely.
(trilema) decimation: re: glibc bug << was this an ulrich drepperism?
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