deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/weakened-kryders-law-kills-bit-company/ << Qntra - Weakened Kryder's "Law" kills Bit-company
ben_vulpes: http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/?single=1 << "Moreover, we need not dismiss out of hand as totally parochial or mean-spirited the desire of Yankee Americans to maintain an ethnically and religiously homogeneous society nor the particular Protestant commitments to individualism and freedom that were brought into play."
ben_vulpes: my how times have changed
trinque: "the international bankers" in scare quotes. how quaint
trinque: asciilifeform: thought wasn't that the shooting was the hangout, but the leak of "they made me watch ISIS vids" to press
trinque: all the right rags trumpeted that detail rather quickly.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/07/introducing-prince-waterbath/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Introducing Prince Waterbath.
mircea_popescu: nice find mod6
mircea_popescu: trinque it's not "didn't work". in the economy of the narcissist mind lashing out at untouchable target never is about ~the target~.
mircea_popescu: which is why stories about "the aliens" always have in clinical practice a little coda about one's father in law or w/e.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, until someone deigns to rein in the html soup and implement one...
mircea_popescu: (of course as far as the spec goes, the bot saves archive.is + base64 blobs of all pages, so there is that, as inconvenient as it is)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski nice qntra.
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2017/01/fuck-white-people-pack-of-native-chicagoans-torture-captive-white-boy/ << lmao. did they hate him because handicapped (utterly natural impulse, this, btw) or because trump won ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any chance of getting last articles and last comments on your sidebar ?
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, https://archive.is/qhUdp (trump meets with conde nast, new york times can barely contain its desperate enthusiasm "see ? we are still relevant! mp was wrong!!11"
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "In 2008, the three broadcast networks, in their nightly news programs, devoted over the entire year a total of three hours and 40 minutes to issues reporting (defined as independent coverage of election issues, not arising from candidate statements or debates). In 2016, that plummeted to a grand total of just 36 minutes."
mircea_popescu: and that "entire year" is 365*24*60=525600 minutes ; NOT prime-time minutes. if you only count those, it's been 0.
mircea_popescu: us state media managed to catch up with the usg's dept of human feeding's record : hamburger with meat ~70 ppm, news with meat ~70 ppm, it's all good and all the same.
mircea_popescu: "Would it matter if the mainstream media did a better job? Or do we live in a post-truth age in which we are so distrusted that our investigations will be dismissed, if they are seen at all? Im not sure, but we must at least try."
mircea_popescu: kristof can;t quite bring himself to say "everyone reads trilema anyway ; we're dogfood", gotta talk about facebook nonsense instead.
mircea_popescu: must suck to be 57 and in the wrong boat.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/9H2mQ << and especially so after having been 42 and in the right one.
mircea_popescu: if too long say an' i'll trilema it instead.
mircea_popescu: !!up netmonk
deedbot: netmonk voiced for 30 minutes.
netmonk: hello thank you mircea_popescu
netmonk: and happy new years everyone
mircea_popescu: sure. you kenny yu ?
netmonk: no im not
netmonk: he is an impostor holding netmonk.com
netmonk: i was netmonk long before him ! :)
mircea_popescu: so what brings you in these here parts ?
netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
mircea_popescu: lol i c
mircea_popescu: well so !!register your key and have fun.
deedbot: Import failed for netmonk.
mircea_popescu: what did you say to it ?
netmonk: gpg or btc ?
netmonk: !!help register
netmonk: damn i need to find my smartcard :)
netmonk: isn't it linked to gribble ?
netmonk: im already registed on it
mircea_popescu: what's it ?
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust netmonk
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
netmonk: for #bitcoin-otc
mircea_popescu: ah yes you are.
deedbot: netmonk is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: lmao trinque which is it ?
trinque: !!key netmonk
deedbot: No such key.
mircea_popescu: netmonk if you registered with gribble after the split, you're not in there.
trinque: that isn't registered
mircea_popescu: trinque aha, it just returns 0 yeah.
trinque: netmonk: it just wants your fingerprint without spaces after !!register
mircea_popescu: is it possible to return "not registered" instead ?
netmonk: !!register 0x15F6BC08DC5EC056
deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
mircea_popescu: o.O that works even ?
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/5fwGs/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!v CCD39ED41E126F5F5B3C89DDD7BFBDA16580B41B9EBF480933B00E932DA04556
trinque: yep if recv-key will take it, works. then there's the supply-via-paste method too.
mircea_popescu: netmonk now you can !!up yourself. and how's the soul of the internet doing ?
Framedragger: btw trinque i don't think my gpg key has all the associated ratings in your wot.deedbot.org wwwtron. but mebbe the latter isn't finished anyway, so i'm jumping ahead of myself :)
netmonk: strange i cannot decode the message
trinque: netmonk: might you have used the wrong key ID?
Framedragger: trinque: ( http://wot.deedbot.org/E2DF986D58A0D3876BA165FACC0510AAFD8AF4B7.html vs http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/8iXWh/?raw=true )
trinque: Framedragger: I decided to eat a beach ball whaddayawant
mircea_popescu: trinque how does it transform a short fp into the whole thing ? "15F6BC08DC5EC056" is insecure enough.
trinque: jk, lemme set the thing to regen per hour
trinque: mircea_popescu: however gpg does; I'm just passing it as argument to --recv-key
Framedragger: amazing phraseologism
mircea_popescu: tsk. how about disabling sub-fp search altogether. kock0gpg is evil.
netmonk: master key
netmonk: !!register 0x62F6E94CB8BEC891
deedbot: netmonk is already registered.
trinque: that's not a fp
netmonk: i gave my master key id instead of subkey encrypting
netmonk: !!register 62F6E94CB8BEC891
deedbot: netmonk is already registered.
mircea_popescu: !!key mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: me too.
trinque: mircea_popescu: is there a setting for that? otherwise gonna have to wait a bit
mircea_popescu: in gpg you mean ? nah, and i wouldn't trust it anyway. ok to wait, it waited for a year before masochist guy found the rake in grass to step on
trinque: would it be a terrible breach of ethics to help this guy re-register?
mircea_popescu: nah, seeing how a) it's the first time and b) he's nobody anyway
mircea_popescu: re-registering a nick with ratings on it can't be done, but unrated they're all equally the same.
netmonk: man i will have to load my master private key
netmonk: wich is offline :(
mircea_popescu: netmonk well alternatively you could also know what your policies are and follow them neh ?
netmonk: why the bot didnt find the subkey used for encryption
trinque: it used the key you told it.
trinque: we're not much about "do what I mean" around heah
trinque: netmonk: I've deleted your registration; feel free to re-reg when you have the right key in hand
netmonk: thank you
netmonk: !!register 0x62F6E94CB8BEC891
deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
mircea_popescu will wait for self upping to rate. o wait, that doesn't work does it. A WELL!!1
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/SzgT8/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!v 49495EEDAC84BA490E236AF5CB0A220CD691D7E9D665512F9FE7271B1F189AD9
trinque: netmonk: send !!up to deedbot in a private message, then decrypt the response, and reply to deedbot with !!v <your OTP here>
mircea_popescu: this may be the least inclusive place in existence. imagine, trinque , the guy is long time linux sysadmin, specializes in assembly cycle shaving.
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/594d569be7627987cbc14dcd32f451be/tumblr_o3x2e3puKD1ut5gyro1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: but here's what i don't understand : the substring 62F6E94CB8BEC891 is not found within 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 ; and moreover http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598125 == http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598076
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 15:02 deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 14:47 deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
trinque: not a bad sort algorithm. most intolerant of an obstacle remaining in his path gets in first.
trinque: I have no evidence yet that using that key ID works, or what other heinous acts gpg undertakes when handed one
trinque: which is why the docs told the guy to use his fp
mircea_popescu: !!up netmonk
deedbot: netmonk voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: !!key netmonk
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he has two moduli in there, one with shortfp of 0x83689A8469C299B1 , another -- 0x15F6BC08DC5EC056 .
asciilifeform: (this in re 'why not substring')
mircea_popescu: no i know. the point being - insanity contradicts expectation. i'm not importing koch.
mircea_popescu: and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
mircea_popescu kind-of has a hankering to dick around with "ai", but no time to fuck with linux eigenstates.
mircea_popescu: what did you do, netmonk ! using md5 for hashing gb-sized packages was not bad enough, now you've done fucked your keythings!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc somebody here had an eliza/shannonizer bot thing ready to fire
mircea_popescu: visit #trilema for an hour, soak up shame to last many years!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ya but who
netmonk: you see ! :)
netmonk: im not much into gpg stuff
netmonk: anyway ! :)
mircea_popescu: that's like saying "i'm not much into clean linens". your personal taste in the matter is a relatively secondary concern. the primary thing is they don't let you inside oxford unless you wash.
netmonk: well i too old for oxford
mircea_popescu: it's not calvesford.
netmonk: and i hope my bad reputation wont transfer to my child :)
mircea_popescu: this monkery is a scam.
netmonk: so buy fingerprint
netmonk: do you mean
netmonk: gpg --list-keys --fingerprint ?
mircea_popescu: 40 byte fingerprint, yes.
netmonk: space included ?
netmonk: and which one ? masterkey of encrypting subkey ?
mircea_popescu: im not even sure what this difference is supposed to mean, but anyway. my own key uses the master and i've not had any problems, so there's that.
netmonk: ;;register 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056
netmonk: this is my master key fingerprint
mircea_popescu: !!key netmonk
mircea_popescu: alright then
netmonk: lets try the otp then
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/F0wVU/?raw=true
trinque: netmonk: of course when not already voiced you'd have to do that in a private message to the bot
netmonk: ;;v 8C3DABE6E76AE5C4F3B0D4CF20FB3D0970BC3477AD728E353903F234B702E67E
netmonk: trinque: understood
netmonk: i least i was succesfull to decrypt the otp :)
netmonk: so things seems to work so far, thank you !
mircea_popescu: netmonk !!v
netmonk: !!v 8C3DABE6E76AE5C4F3B0D4CF20FB3D0970BC3477AD728E353903F234B702E67E
deedbot: You are now voiced in #trilema
netmonk: seems to be good
trinque: netmonk: welcome
netmonk: thank you
mircea_popescu: now then, were you looking for stuff to do ? other than reading the log that is.
netmonk: i will try to improve my gpg skills
netmonk: well i still have all the backlog from one year ago to read
netmonk: when i was idling here
netmonk: under another nick :)
netmonk: !!reputation netmonk
mircea_popescu: !#s plonky
netmonk: see :)
netmonk: even mode with this one
netmonk: danielpbarron still around :)
netmonk: mircea_popescu: do you have some work to propose ?
mircea_popescu: there's both the profiling of large db indexes stored as ext4 or xfs ; and the implementing of the fabulous mp hash in asm and cycle counting it.
mircea_popescu: and in bowling today, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e508eb3b6a2d0c590f7e90354675603b/tumblr_o817i21evc1uifa4mo8_1280.jpg
netmonk: mp for minimal perfect ?
mircea_popescu: no, for my name.
netmonk: but not much time for that currently
netmonk: you listen reggae ?
mircea_popescu: on occasion.
netmonk: "aite" reminds me some jamaican slang
mircea_popescu: it's what it is.
mircea_popescu: i'm an utter linguistic slut, if it wasn't screamingly obvious.
mircea_popescu: hola mod6
mod6: hola mircea_popescu
mod6: I like that MARC thing. seems useful.
mod6: be neat to have a tmsr mirror of that; probably yuuuge tho.
mircea_popescu: mostly text so can't be that huge. and yes.
mircea_popescu: iirc it was made for a very tmsr-like reason - kde people wanted to save their mailing list
mod6: yeah, seems like it. then they just kept adding other archives. very helpful.
mircea_popescu: "First of all, we were then and continue to be impressed by MySQL, for its stability, performance, range of features, and price" << https://marc.info/?q=about
mircea_popescu: and in other "competing with africa" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/5d918039dab081143fd78f7b0e4e6b0b/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo1_1280.jpg
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 11:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any chance of getting last articles and last comments on your sidebar ?
ben_vulpes: i'm one more 'undefined is not a function' away from moving to boring and raising cashmere goats
ben_vulpes: fixing my wp template heinous though it definitely is is not anywhere near the top of my list of things to do
ben_vulpes: aaand trilema down! a+, yahoo.
ben_vulpes: coffee nao
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you probably know this but each post has an rss feed for its comments as well
ben_vulpes: augh gabriel_laddel_p i'm formatting your comment into sanity
ben_vulpes: plx to blockquote
trinque: this shit where g_l is replying to me in your fucking blog
trinque: I'm not using networkmanager; where's my lisp nic?
asciilifeform: trinque: it's in yer gizmo2, lel. just gotta write the driver!111
trinque must quote asciilifeform to g_l
trinque: !#s hire cheapest
ben_vulpes: do eet on muh blergh
asciilifeform: trinque: eh he's a veeery speshul trainflake, managed to read (if one is to believe) my compleateworx, and learn 0
trinque: ben_vulpes: I made the statement here, will wait for the day g_l shows up permanently and raises the thread
trinque: this dancing about like he gets to define how the logs work is out
ben_vulpes: i kid, i kid.
asciilifeform: trinque: it's the national folkdance of 'i am young and GENYOOS and californian and hip and here comes me'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes thing is, i land on your page, i have no easy way of knowing what moves.
asciilifeform: 'Until I can buy a lisp nic, I'll be networkmanagering it up thank you very much.' << lel
trinque: because there is nothing beneath! fucks sake
trinque: can't just talk to wpa_supplicant no
asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
asciilifeform: (y'know, where i stuffed bootable linux kernel + userland + trb into 5MB with 0 drepperola or poetteringola)
asciilifeform: on a godforsaken motherfucking toy arm.
trinque: aha, or your or my gentoo recipes
asciilifeform: 'Gentoo can PRACTICALLY be improved by slowly & surely eliminating it from Masamune. There are plenty of people who can, and have written lisp bootloaders. The only problem with this (and all related projects) is that they're incomplete, due to lacking a working lisp environment one can integrate with. People write code using the _stable_ abstractions at hand.'
asciilifeform: you can tell here that gabriel_laddel either does not know, or care, what sort of herculean labour is involved in undoing years of design braindamage
asciilifeform: how or why, for instance, it took most of a year to arrive at a 100% static and embeddable trb
trinque: all I can say is, take part in the forum. it'll rid you of that american megalomania, or get rid of you, real quick.
asciilifeform: but notice, he won't, like vampire avoids the sun
mircea_popescu: wait, was trilema down !?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not afaik
mircea_popescu: a ok
asciilifeform: also gabriel_laddel inspired me to invent new type of aircraft propulsion system. take ordinary house, and SLOWLY & SURELY excavate a few km of earth from underneath it !
asciilifeform: who needs wings, engines, etc.
mircea_popescu: alf's scathing is getting ever more acidic week by week.
asciilifeform: eh i had more than the appropriate measure of sympathy for the poor bugger because laboured under the impression that he, fwiw, was a monster i had an indirect hand in creating
asciilifeform: but all patience is finite.
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: this is ridoinculous, the paternal fallacy. "oh he sucks but i made him". doh ? do you do the same with code, also ?
asciilifeform: it is ridiculous, and i swore it off.
mircea_popescu: more sympathy by a large margin is owed to the things no one made, than to the suspected fruits of anyone's loins.
asciilifeform: i dunno how mircea_popescu cuts the knot of distinguishing (say, among his pets) 'slow learner' from 'militant ignoramus'
asciilifeform: afaik it is an open problem, and reduces to 'set knob to arbitary place you can live with'
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform death distinguishes. i literally beat them until they either die or reform.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'lisp trb' is sussman's 'scheme83' chip.
asciilifeform: published design, and not only design, but the mask generator (runs on, i shit thee not, itself, also)
asciilifeform: it is slightly older than asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: so lisp exists, as a factual matter.
mircea_popescu: (it is, believe it or not, entirely not evident from the activity of "lisp people" whether it does or does not exist, the object of their work/preoccupation.)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: clarify "what moves"?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in this century 'lisp people' tend to resemble holyromanempire's 'roman people'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "if ch approximates an immutable datastruct over the interval lastvisit - currentvisit".
trinque: ^ aka took me a minute to find g_l's reply to me
mircea_popescu: in practice i come to understand now, after thousands of articles / years blogging, that in fact the frontend to a blog should really be as close to a... vdiff patch! as practicable.
trinque: which was probably intentional on his part
mircea_popescu: and let's pass in silence over the circumstance that i'd have never figured that out if i kept blogging by itself.
asciilifeform: 'At one point in time I reviewed ALL CL codebases.' << d00d read & fit-in-head all of macsyma ? i'd luv to see.
ben_vulpes: smells rather strongly of "read" == "rolled eyeballs over"
trinque: it could be said that insofar as the CL standard does not specify a machine, it is drastically incomplete
trinque: and that lack leads directly to the present day diaspora, and the ghettos, on other systems
mircea_popescu: the idea being c passively specifies the machine ?
asciilifeform: considering that the standard was a product of a truce between competing lispm vendors, it is not mega-surprise. but trinque is right.
trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed
asciilifeform: trinque: c fails even at this, consider the atrocity of 'endianism', word sizes, and 101 other variations that break a c proggy
mircea_popescu: yeah i was thinking... hm.
mircea_popescu: it does not specify it in the sane sense. but his contention is not baseless.
trinque: then the failure of outer specification makes the inner nigh meaningless
asciilifeform: trinque: zetalisp (nonstandardized but exceptionally well-documented smbx lispm lisp) ~was~ specified from low-level machine model
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598150 << i would be happy to stand a trinquebot up for you
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 15:19 mircea_popescu: and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
asciilifeform: trinque: it was an interesting document, at one point i linked it here
ben_vulpes: trinque: any action on recording all message lines or is that a patch i should cook?
trinque: please do if you like
trinque: but lets discuss; I've got idears
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what'd i script it in, lisp ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: sql, lisp if you like
mircea_popescu: great opportunity for me to learn / everyone to lol at my learning lisp!
mircea_popescu: how much for a year's worth of hosting it + the occasional reboot ?
ben_vulpes: ooh pricing exercises
ben_vulpes: let's say 2 btc, and that'll cover the patch to record all protocol lines as well
mircea_popescu: the patch to who ?
ben_vulpes: the patch to the trinquebot
mircea_popescu: yes but to ?
ben_vulpes: currently trinquebot only logs vanilla messages in its channels
mircea_popescu: and what are protocol lines ?
ben_vulpes: not eg privmsg and action
trinque: dunno if that's needed for this
trinque: it does log privmsg
ben_vulpes: ah that's right
trinque: privmsg is used for both channel messages and pm
trinque: what it doesn't log is every protocol line that goes to/fro; it logs parsed message lines only
ben_vulpes: mhm. it's the ACTION lines that it doesn't catch.
ben_vulpes: protocol lines include server banners etc
mircea_popescu: ah. the way i was thinking this'd work would be : the bot answers to any lines where its name is mentioned ; and i can update its "brain" with a !^ url style command. whereby it replaces its "ai" code with the content of the file.
trinque: well, doesn't parse. those are still privmsg iirc
mircea_popescu: i've no interest in action and other such
ben_vulpes: oh then it'd work for you as-is
mircea_popescu: nice. so as an example, my first task would be to figure out how to instruct it to respond to messages only if there've been less than 12 lines spoken the past 15 minutes. that sort of thing.
trinque: ben_vulpes: what I do need to do is release logbot-service.genesis
mircea_popescu: subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
trinque: and you'd extend that class for this
ben_vulpes: trinque: aye
asciilifeform: !#s popescutron
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'd rather read your experiments in lisp than php
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah the idea is, bot will attempt to learn from conversation. with, eg, you.
asciilifeform: i had this itch 2+ yrs ago but my evil plan was to make it simply eat the collected works of mircea_popescu rather than explicit rules
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, the sentiment is mutual - i want mine to eat you lot.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i mean to say "if it gets mircea_popescu to write and think in lisp its a worthwhile use of lines"
asciilifeform: theoretically ought to work on anybody with large body of text. in practice, certain text works better than other
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so therefore considering that you don't have to rewrite trinque's bot nor is a vps more than a few bux a month, dja got a counteroffer ? :D
asciilifeform: (best if you have 'hooks', in this case infrequent words and phrases to latch onto)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is not without merit ; but i was gonna try an interactive slut.
asciilifeform: also neato
mircea_popescu: best i can tell the two aren't blocking each other in any way.
trinque: ben_vulpes: so sounds like we should still consider doing the patch for raw messages, such that we don't have to build this atop out-of-date logbot-service
trinque: I can give it some time next week
mircea_popescu: ill go harvesting parantheses in the meanwhile so i have a few stacks
trinque: deploying other people's code into a logbot service sounds pretty UCI to me
trinque: I like it.
mircea_popescu: chipping that way
trinque afk for a while
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: counteroffer impending, rescuing dog food from child
mircea_popescu: but... why
mircea_popescu: gotta be cheaper than usual diet.
ben_vulpes: nanners are pretty cheap
mircea_popescu: this exercise promises in any case to be hopefully one of many in a new trend : $item for extremely intelligent people.
mircea_popescu: enough with the "for idiots" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: (i would like to thank the academy, the harem sluts, and phf / ben_vulpes discussions for inspiring me to come this far!)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598258 << you know those guys that periodically stop by lisper venues, and they don't really program, but they want to use LISP to build an AI, because metacircularity of code is data is giving them mystical visions..?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:32 asciilifeform: trinque: eh he's a veeery speshul trainflake, managed to read (if one is to believe) my compleateworx, and learn 0
phf: presumably also read ~something~
asciilifeform: phf: probably hofstadter
ben_vulpes: lol omfg rescue dog food from child, only to be blessed by cries of anger when dog takes banana from child
ben_vulpes: trainflake nice missed that on the first pass
mircea_popescu: you're really better off letting them sort out their food themselves.
mircea_popescu: just provide kanana an bibbles qs.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598294 << scheme83 is like a "canticle for leibowitz" artifact. "published design" is overstatement of the century. scraps of published memos and reports spread over out of print conference proceedings, the bulk of actual technology needed to recreate probably somewhere on a TAPE. i don't know where you got that mask generator runs on scheme83. the entire production stack was for mit cadr
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'lisp trb' is sussman's 'scheme83' chip.
asciilifeform: phf: yer wrong. i have whole thing in a 3ring here.
mircea_popescu: blog it ?
phf: are you talking about aim-514?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:15 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598258 << you know those guys that periodically stop by lisper venues, and they don't really program, but they want to use LISP to build an AI, because metacircularity of code is data is giving them mystical visions..?
Framedragger: luckily enough i realized i was on hash before i could quickly set up a blog in haskell and start writing stupid words about the singularity
Framedragger: iirc same evening included me "really getting" dark side of the moon, "like really getting it you know?"; but eh, it was beautiful so can't complain.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of canticle : anyone looking to write a sf piece in the a c clarke vein willing to model what'd happen if a lead comet the size of ceres showed up on a slow orbit ? at first, comet observed somewhere past kuipier belt, it's slow and dim. then, is it a comet or an asteroid ? then, measurements indicate it's much too dense. then, in timescales ever narrowing, its orbit turns out to be unsafe. then, as it collapses
mircea_popescu: into the sun (which ideally should be done "safely", ie, perpendicular to planetary plane and away from earth-at-the-time, it... moderates it! so the sun cools. which is significant. story goes on.
mircea_popescu: correctly modelling "what would happen to sun if chunk of lead hit it" is more of a "learn qm exercise" than most resources available.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i "really got it" coupla nights ago, out walking, splendid full moon with abendstar in opposition. and it was SO OBVIOUSLY a fucking planet, lit by the star in part that i really had nfi what people had been doing prior. it's fucking obvious omg!
mircea_popescu: not like you can't SEE the whole sphere, and the dark part is dim but visible.
phf: asciilifeform: because i have a paper by shrobe from 1982 vlsi conference (i could only find a hardcopy, been meaning to scan it), that explicitly says that data path generator was written for mit cadr, and that it opts the DPL code out of a gui environment. i haven't seen complete listing for DPL for the cpu either.
ben_vulpes: in related occlusions: http://68.media.tumblr.com/f9c61a195d1bb7b6e3ed3a4dcc404f79/tumblr_ohozg1Qm4a1r6pbcio2_500.jpg
mircea_popescu: the phase of the ovaries ?
ben_vulpes: howl at the blood moon or something i have no iea
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that's pretty cool. i see what you mean - you can see craters and the dark side still being the moon... collective delusion / cognitive dissonance something something! (and btw i meant the album but both work well in this instance..) :)
mircea_popescu: incidentally, /me is not a great fan of tattoos, by which i mean the meaningless optional bs, not the actual tribal/prison stuff. however, from a purely aesthetic perspective, isn't there something fundamentally wrong with the blocky ones (ie, the ones with large monocolor chunks) ?
ben_vulpes: aside from bespeaking poverty of taste and pocket?
phf: they always look like somebody laid paint too thick while painting a metal shed
ben_vulpes: subject of painting metal sheds, i just discovered "papercrete"
mircea_popescu: phf and the effect is especially negative when the girl overdoes the make-up lines, as some girls do.
mircea_popescu: "hey, wanna see my tattoo ?" "o wow, it looks like you did it yourself!"
ben_vulpes: but stick and poke is so hip
ben_vulpes: i'm down for scarification, but only the high-entropy kind that comes of abrading self against road
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you want your code to run on every new message?
mircea_popescu: if it includes bot's name.
cunnigonde: !#s cunnigonde
cunnigonde: should be safe enough.
asciilifeform: phf: i'ma get back re subj after digging through the dead trees
phf: asciilifeform: kk
Framedragger: unrelated: http://flashbak.com/yugoslavian-computer-magazine-cover-girls-of-the-1980s-90s-370271/
Framedragger: this one could be titled "the terror of the c machine" http://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Ra%C4%8Dunari-1993_03_001.jpg
phf: because ultimately chip was manufactured out of DPL files (described in aim-598) the whole deflayout/defregtype/defconst thing. i haven't seen ~that~ published anywhere
mircea_popescu: Framedragger pet plus!
asciilifeform: phf: i excavated my binder and found the item you had just linked. where dpl is described in approx same level of detail as eurisko's 'rtl' was in the lenatleaks thing. but i am now beginning to suspect that it got 'symbolicsized', e.g., subsumed into the properties they licensed from mit
asciilifeform: and remains buried in indiana jones vault.
asciilifeform: also it would astonish me if the build process did NOT depend on having a working cadr around
asciilifeform: as the scheme83 chip was never put into commercial production and afaik existed never more than in handful qty.
phf: well, shrobe went on to work at smbx, and used the evolution of the same stack to make an ivory. i wouldn't be surprised that's where the licensing went
asciilifeform: iirc one of the 'death of symbolics' treatises went on at length about the follow of them NOT having made any attempt to market their chip synthesis stack as a commercial offering
phf: (he i think published another paper on the subject of making lisp cpus, but with smbx as his @)
asciilifeform: i have that paper. it was ~2pgs and about as useful as their sales brochure.
phf: right, i think i was going to source it for completeness, but never bothered because of abstract.
asciilifeform: it was not a wholly bad read, had chip die porn etc.
asciilifeform: incidentally did phf ever post any of his smbx finds ?
phf: i have a second trip scheduled for second week of march to finish the process
asciilifeform: *about the folly of them
asciilifeform: phf: neato
phf: i'm treating it as an avocation, so i'm resigned to glacier speeds that all these people require
asciilifeform: phf: no rush, it is not as if we had a chip fab in which to make clones, or even particularly want to make clone (i have 0 interest in perpetuating 20 years of mit undergrad young cocklet crapolade code)
phf: problem is that our man never really had the code (certainly no "rights" to code), since i think that the asset split went something like "you get the body and you get the soul", and the guy with the soul is keeping it in his garage to "turn into millions one day one i retire" sort of thing.
asciilifeform: some details of the low level arch might be interesting though.
asciilifeform: all i got, for the most part, is what is in the wall-o-deadtree manuals, and what i gleaned from reversing 'snap4' binary in ida.
asciilifeform: having the physical 3620, was, interestingly enough, ~useless.
asciilifeform: phf: and i'm pretty sure that mallery is an nsa asset.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck does he want the millions for.
mircea_popescu: don't tell me "to sit on them for later"
asciilifeform: he's sitting on'em for massah.
asciilifeform: (a good chunk of the logistics code in u.s. dod that actually ~works~ runs on smbx. TO THIS DAY.)
asciilifeform: the other d00d, who asciilifeform and phf both met, is schmidt, and he's a salt-of-the-earth mechanic sort of fella
asciilifeform: 0 theory.
asciilifeform: there is also a 3rd d00d, kalman reti, who i have not met nor know anyone who has
asciilifeform: he's got the emulator src.
asciilifeform: them 3, plus the 'customer' (handler) at fort somethingorother, makes all of modern-day symbolics corp.
phf: well, result of my work will be basically one step removed from useless :} no need for a logic analyzer, but still a gargantuan effort to make sense of architecture. smbx has opposite problem from scheme stack. there's the DPL, but there aren't any AIM-514 equivalents
asciilifeform: at one point there was a probate judge involved also
asciilifeform: but iirc that ended.
asciilifeform: phf: i have indirect clues that there ~were~ docs, and superb ones at that
asciilifeform: but all in indianajoneswarehouse nao.
mircea_popescu: phf can you explain briefly and in short simple words management may be suspected of comprehending why do you think this is worth doing ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: customization aside, .13 for a year of hosting and .17 for a year of support and reboots?
mircea_popescu: it's yours. addy ?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/postcards-from-retardistan/ << Trilema - Postcards from Retardistan
ben_vulpes: i gotta do a food and battery run before these roads ice over, bbl
netmonk: for how long am i voiced ?
phf: netmonk: you've upped yourself at some point, you should be voiced indefinitely
netmonk: got it
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:43 asciilifeform: but notice, he won't, like vampire avoids the sun
gabriel_laddel_p: I was online ~everyday idk, ~2 years ago?
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: get with Framedragger just fix it
ben_vulpes: deeds not words
gabriel_laddel_p: yeah that's never going to happen.
gabriel_laddel_p: I'm never going to use his bouncer.
gabriel_laddel_p: Talk to you in a few months then.
phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
phf: historical record of some of the systems decisions symbolics made, that somebody else might use.
Framedragger: whatyougonnado.jpg ; fwiw gabriel_laddel_p i'd lend you a vps for a month for free (i wouldn't have access to it) just so that you'd stop pissing people off, but your call of course
mircea_popescu: so archeology, basically.
netmonk: i can provide shell
gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger: thanks, but pass. I don't deal with computers I cannot physically touch.
netmonk: for 0.2 btc/y
phf: basically :p
netmonk: on freebsd
Framedragger: admirable approach, but not very pragmatic. then again, pragmatic things can lead to bad places, too...
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: you can touch the server if you can fly to paris
Framedragger: (i don't really see why you'd have to trust this intermediary node, though)
netmonk: and access dc3 equinix datacenter
ben_vulpes: confuse ye not the promiscuous devices with the chaste devices or what was it
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598267 < Thanks for reminding me. I don't trb, so went looking for them last time I was working on the LiveUSB, failed to find them and then continued working using the strategy I was prior.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
ben_vulpes: well having failed to extract the battery from the dead car i must now do the aforementioned food run but also to get a 10mm deep socket
ben_vulpes: hola davout
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598485 << fwiw it is exactly why i was doing it, likewise.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:03 phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
asciilifeform: medieval-style preservation.
netmonk: and for 0.3 more i can provide openvpn
phf: i think we should draw a line at illuminated schematics though
asciilifeform: atm i'd settle for ~any~ useful schematics..
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
asciilifeform: phf: i also have some dead smbx 'xl' boards i got to decap & photo dies, but also never did it, and probably won't live long enough
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: for so long as the x86 idiocy persists, this will remain.
gabriel_laddel_p: No? Because now Masamune exists and we can begin to address the other issues (such as x86) like adults?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: did you ever get it to the point where it installs on hdd ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: no
gabriel_laddel_p: all installs are done by hand
gabriel_laddel_p: ^ Roughly my feelings on the matter, however CLIM is sufficiently enjoyable to distract from this.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: while we have you on the line, plz consider taking a few min to explain the rationale for 'product is ready for selling' but at the same time 'video is not ready for public eye'
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: I'm doing my best to keep it from the hands of idiots.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: it gives an impression that , i suspect, you do not want
gabriel_laddel_p: That being said, I should drop a version in here for the lordship
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: what do you suppose might happen if idiots were to get hold of a copy ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: an ubuntu+sbcl+clim "masamune" gets released and promoted by the whole "lisp community" that lacks sources, macsyma, MJRCALC, MGL, etc
gabriel_laddel_p: I prefer to have access to an untainted market.
asciilifeform: why do you care what the idiots who would consider bastardized product may or may not do ?
asciilifeform: if you ~actually need~ their money, your business model is already catastrophically ill-conceived.
gabriel_laddel_p: I want every penny of commercial lisp code to be directed to republican pockets.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: you want someone among the people here to work as your sales rep ? or wat
netmonk: damn i just realise it still exist people coding in lisp
asciilifeform: well you did use phrase 'republican pockets' rather than ' gabriel_laddel_p's pockets '
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598350 << I love it. babble bots are my favorite kind of bots
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:06 mircea_popescu: subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
gabriel_laddel_p: Thus, they can sell Masamune and pocket whatever they're able to make.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: entirely leaving aside the particulars of your product, i must confess that i get an impression that gabriel_laddel_p is not himself entirely certain yet how it is that he wants to do business, and with whom, on what terms.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: consider posting, publicly, the ad film. if this enables 'idiot' to immediately replicate your work, then there was not so much to it, neh ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: notice, for example, that complete schematic, cpld, etc. for FUCKGOATS is posted on www.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: yeah, but FUCKGOATS has _lots_ of text, whereas this is a video.
gabriel_laddel_p: idiots have an easier time with the latter.
gabriel_laddel_p: Anyways, will encrypt a copy to the lordship and drop it in here today.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: understand that 'this product is not for the public, it is for YOUR VEEERY SPESHUL EYES' patternmatches scamolade.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598267 < if you could point me to this archive it would be very helpful.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 17:39 trinque: aha, or your or my gentoo recipes
asciilifeform: there is a very long history of this kind of nonsense that is ~very~ difficult to overlook.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: tough.
davout: i really don't get this fascination with whatever idiots will do
gabriel_laddel_p: davout: you've never wanted to do anything even remotely similar to what I aim to do.
gabriel_laddel_p: if you want to discuss this in more detail, find me a blog I can post comments on without people bitching
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-03#1421109 << the gentoo recipe thread.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-03 17:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet
asciilifeform: diana_coman , iirc, tested.
asciilifeform: possibly others.
mircea_popescu: phf illuminated schematics with tits seems like a winning strat.
davout: gabriel_laddel_p: i have no interested in taking part in anything for which whatever idiots do or do not do has any kind of bearing
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque repairs on phuctor are complete and the rss feed again consists strictly of genuinely-phuctored mods. the werker will be re-enabled tonight. it is safe to switch the feed back on.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:30 gabriel_laddel_p: davout: you've never wanted to do anything even remotely similar to what I aim to do.
gabriel_laddel_p: davout: lol, you're french right?
davout: no i'm a bot
mircea_popescu: these aren't mutually exclusive.
davout: a bot that could randomly go on strike i guess
netmonk: davout: from what i hear you left
netmonk: France not so long ago
mircea_popescu: i am surprised you two don't know each other.
mircea_popescu: o, wait.
davout: i don't know, maybe we do?
davout: some peeps i meet irl but don't have a mapping to a nick
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598513 << the cause for this ridiculous situation, however, is very much described by the above discussion re symbolics. those were also people who aimed to install all lisp machines, by hand, in their own garage.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:10 gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: idk about that. Symbolics was a different beast with a different set of problems. But then again, I don't know that much about the people involved with Symbolics, so perhaps you are right.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:25 netmonk: damn i just realise it still exist people coding in lisp
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p well, let's put it this way - not a page of symbolics supposedly superb documentation did make it to republican coffers after all.
gabriel_laddel_p: I contend that the current "lisp community" is a bunch of fundamentally broken people, and that symbolics was a bunch of fundamentally broken people, but they're broken in different ways.
mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
mircea_popescu: and legally, and i estimate the barriers would hold.
mircea_popescu: then alf can run the thing ; and altman can't run the thing, both because he doesn't know how to and because he doesn't see any point in trying.
gabriel_laddel_p: Sigh. Altman is probably going to end up with a version in his hands before alf.
mircea_popescu: now, it may be that you don't know how to do this, but that's easier to solve than any other problem.
mircea_popescu: netmonk did you see ben_vulpes 's lisp implementation of V ?
mircea_popescu: kinda neat concept this, incidentally : "license is hereby granted to run this software to and only to those parties who have been wot-rated by $author".
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:26 gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
mircea_popescu: might be ~same as the above musl, i suppose on a curated gentoo.
mircea_popescu: truth be told we're so far into it i can't say in confidence i even fully understand what masamune ~actually is~. this is a sad state of affairs.
ben_vulpes: "awog" == "america was once great"?
ben_vulpes: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598562 << i have tested many many times. works very well
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:31 asciilifeform: possibly others.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you may continue to comment on my blog, others may continue to bitch, there is no pleasing everyone
netmonk: mircea_popescu: im discovering it
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: check your PMs.
netmonk: i used to program in RPL on my hp48 back in the day, does that count ? :)
phf: (in unrelated tooling, mc is handy. i can see why asciilifeform still uses it. you can go pretty far with the whole ofm paradigm, combine it with unix underneath, etc.)
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bznn0f9Mk3KAZTc3blZPVVg2QU0/view?usp=sharing
gabriel_laddel_p: ^ the whole lordship should be able to decrypt it on the off chance you're curious.
gabriel_laddel_p: pete_dushenski: what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes exactly.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p so what is this stick business, a tailored gentoo + masamune ?
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: "stick business"? You are referring to the analogy from ascii earlier?
mircea_popescu: no you said you're trying to get a stick replication ?
gabriel_laddel_p: Oh right. Masamune is a gentoo (no systemd) curated for (sbcl) lisp development only. It offers graphics, CAS & other mathematical libs all in the same lisp process.
gabriel_laddel_p: One of the features I need to complete is replication, which is to say: "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. "
mircea_popescu: and this is for some reason mroe than a dozen lines of bash, for instance ?
gabriel_laddel_p: Yes. For one, I can't create a working livecd. Secondly, it should not touch your personal files when replicating.
gabriel_laddel_p: If you know the dozen lines of bash that will do this, do tell.
mircea_popescu: holy hell ?!
mircea_popescu: are you using what, grub ?
mircea_popescu: for a bootloader i meant
mircea_popescu: in my own mind, it's just unsquash the image, impose a portage on it / make other customisations and resquash it. at least that's how it ~should~ work what the everloving fuck.
gabriel_laddel_p: syslinux is the bootloader
gabriel_laddel_p: and it works fine. The problem is in this "image" business.
gabriel_laddel_p: I cannot create an image that comes with all the required goodies without breaking something or other.
mircea_popescu never used syslinux
mircea_popescu: oh, as in dependency hell ?
mircea_popescu: and in other "bad posture nudity", http://68.media.tumblr.com/aa8ea46ba42d57de36de74c7e0746ddf/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo9_1280.jpg
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: something like that. There are a whole slew of issues: the init that Martin ships works fine, but if I substitute my own init - breaks. Among a million other things I have don't understand, such as
mircea_popescu: it might be a good idea to write all these down ; there's a decent chance people here may read, and a not negligible chance at least one knows why it fails.
gabriel_laddel_p: when creating my image, why must I copy using cp -dpR /somedir/* /someotherdir/ rather than the -a flag?
mircea_popescu: i suspect because of full/relative dirnames.
mircea_popescu: -a = -dR
BingoBoingo: ty mircea_popescu about maximally long but oh so lulzy
mircea_popescu: accepted ? cool.
mircea_popescu: no sauce for it, either, because well... sikrit infoz.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/the-fourth-reich-grips-berlin/ << Qntra - The Fourth Reich Grips Berlin
mircea_popescu: which only adds to the amusement -- got data about what they plan to do in case data leaks which has been now leaked.
asciilifeform: lol germanpublic
asciilifeform: which one 'won't stand for it', the bearded d00dz enjoying themselves on rapesafari, or the chix ?
asciilifeform: or is there a storehouse with actual germans still in it, in cryostorage, next to the nazi ufo and atomic bell ?
mircea_popescu: how should i know!
ben_vulpes: gentoo car quest complete
ben_vulpes: battery tie nuts were so solidly adhesed to the ties that the rod snapped
ben_vulpes: even the mighty pblaster could not free them
ben_vulpes: granted it's 30F out
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do you want an ircbot to play with "now" and migration to trinque's new shiny be damned or do you want to wait for the new shiny?
mircea_popescu: no rush.
ben_vulpes: new shiny entails capture of everything that comes out of irc servers and service/command module
mircea_popescu: i only have a vague idea of what im gonna do with it anyway, will clarify in time.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i really only need it to see when it's highlighted and talk back.
ben_vulpes: sure, gotcha
ben_vulpes: bbl spawn awakens
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo : s/Washington alone/<a href=http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-19#928005>Washington alone</a>/ ?
a111: Logged on 2014-11-19 01:50 decimation: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-23/german-gold-stays-in-new-york-in-rebuff-to-euro-doubters.html << " “The Americans are taking good care of our gold,” Norbert Barthle, the budget spokesman for Merkel’s Christian Democratic bloc in parliament, said in an interview. “Objectively, there’s absolutely no reason for mistrust.” " lol
netmonk: no reason for mistrust
netmonk: but trust isnt mutually excluded with control
mircea_popescu: feminine pov. if you're a herd animal, trust === control.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what a colony is : a female state.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598397 < if you think haskell is of the same family of lisp you understood nothing.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:24 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
gabriel_laddel_p: also rust is for retards.
gabriel_laddel_p: less hash, more sitting at a lisp REPL
Framedragger: take it easy friend, things can be said and appreciated in jest :)
gabriel_laddel_p: no, it can't
gabriel_laddel_p: die painfully
Framedragger: this reminds me of when i earnestly tried to pull a "do you even positivism" russell's teapot "prove it" on mp re. his claims on Tor
gabriel_laddel_p: !!down Framedragger
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p may not !!down Framedragger.
Framedragger: well, i'm sorry if i angered you, did not intend that :)
gabriel_laddel_p: !!rate Framedragger -10 useless
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/2hBgV/?raw=true
gabriel_laddel_p: !!v 09D7D2552E4291B91E5F21B3D7554D23373D9A2A44FF5B185ED693978F70E818
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p rated Framedragger -10 << useless
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598584 < google flights probably has a bigger LoC count.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
gabriel_laddel_p: http://rigetti.com/ < USG.MAGA also uses CL, though I'm not clear on the particulars atm
gabriel_laddel_p: my mistake: usg.altman, not usg.maga
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598589 < http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-23#1144189
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 20:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
a111: Logged on 2015-05-23 06:52 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes in particular it's unclear to me how wise the "licenses" angle is for a serenissima derivative. while i declined to anull IP when diametric asked earlier, i am very very far from any sort of belief that the current model of that stack of stupidity has any sort of hope for survival. << i figured (perhaps stupi
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: bored and want to do something useful?
adlai: sure, why not
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: got a gentoo machine sitting around?
adlai: no, and my trb node never finished syncing either
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: mk. what distro do you use?
adlai: the haemorraging-edge one, dome linoks
adlai: and some sorta bsd but i don't own the iron
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: what runs on the machine that is actually sitting on your lap
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: read my lisp: arch linux
adlai: also, don't laptop literally, that literally kills the sperm
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: well it seems I can't have you do what I had in mind. Could you instead please review http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/ternary/ and work out some basic ternery circuts for the eventual loper machine?
gabriel_laddel_p: All simulations should be written in CL.
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: some further food for thought
adlai hopes gabriel_laddel_p has no dead line in mind
adlai: (also you seem to vastly overestimate my competence, which is fine - a common mistake. others here seem to have a better idea of it)
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: what is a deadline?
mircea_popescu: ah google has an airfinder thing too ? had no idea. apparently written in cl indeed.
adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they bought it (acquihire) for ~$1B
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: you're plenty smart, and could be useful if you'd work on useful stuff.
asciilifeform: a while ago.
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: what is a use?
gabriel_laddel_p: !!down adlai
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p may not !!down adlai.
gabriel_laddel_p: !!rate -10 adlai useless
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. doesn't seem to be going anywhere, iirc they also bought matrix, and never integrated
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: protip, don't drink and rate
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the air tickets thing -- worx, i've used it many times, fwiw.
mircea_popescu: i generally use either girl-who-works-at-agency or else expedia.
adlai: mircea_popescu: iiuc qpx is the ~one~ proggy google did not rewrite in blub after it landed in their laps
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw, i intend to finish the hardcopy of hacker's delight that landed in my life before properly digesting the links you sent me, but out of politeness, i will skim them first.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to dan weinreb (who died a couplea years ago; was one of the key smbx folx, and then -- much later -- also the orbitz air tickets thing) wrote (on his www, that is now vanished, though archive.org might have snapshot),
adlai: !!v 41106D515B449ED8C50D122247FA7FD94F5EFBBB021FD9CEDF6E9A9D8FD72EF4
deedbot: adlai rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << likely impostor until verified otherwise, still needs a bouncer; otoh, talks plenty smart.
asciilifeform: that orbitz was only 1 foot in lisp planet, and had the most cpu-intensive piece in cpp.
adlai has lots of logs to catch up before amending the rating.
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: anyways, iirc hackers delight is a bunch of tricks for binary machines. I see no reason why you shouldn't just skip it.
gabriel_laddel_p: also, if you could locate the precise knuth book where he discusses balanced ternery, and then find me a warez copy, that would be useful
gabriel_laddel_p: chop chop.
netmonk: not so difficult to find taocp on bittorrent
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: I've been ignoring everything you've said because it is clear you've not read 6 months of logs.
phf: actually it would be nice if somebody were to warez the cross referenced version of taocp that was produced by tug. stuff that's on bittorent is junk
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: start here: http://trilema.com/2014/a-compendium-of-basic-points-about-bitcoin-for-the-benefit-of-various-confused-noobs/
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: that's a valid reason currently
ben_vulpes: chop chop lol the stones on this guy
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: then come back after a month or so and we'll see if we can have an actual conversation.
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: alright, but still, it's not so difficult to find it on bittorrent
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: try reading my message again.
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: also, I can't torrent anything atm
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: I don't want all of them (well, I do, but nevermind that) - I want the specific book & page number where knuth discusses balanced ternery.
gabriel_laddel_p: netmonk: and a copy of the book
netmonk: gabriel_laddel_p: first part of your request is basic google search : https://www.google.fr/search?espv=2&biw=2131&bih=998&tbm=bks&q=the+art+of+computer+programming++balanced+ternery&oq=the+art+of+computer+programming++balanced+ternery&gs_l=serp.3..30i10k1.2454.6331.0.6518.104.22.168.0.0.0.327.1357.10j2j0j1.13.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..1.6.461.HHB-vlpZ1EQ
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597346 << 09:13:20 adlai | one could argue a lot of things, such as "miners should voluntarily reduce the block size, to drive up fees, and then increase the block
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 06:27 ben_vulpes: eh, the leaving of free money on the ground baffles me.
adlai: | size gradually enough that users don't realize they can pay lower fees again"
asciilifeform: adlai: there is an even simpler plausible hypothesis - that it is simply easier to build the massive blockwithhold-chains the cartel builds, if one does ~not~ include wild tx-en in'em
asciilifeform: (easier in the sense that the perpetrator does not risk having his withholdchain invalidated by a 'wild' tx being included twice (dun ask me why this would be a concern, but we DO know that they program with arse muscles) or conceivably mined by another
adlai: how's it go... "hidden are the devil's machinations" (rough transation of "nistarot hen darkei ha'el")
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598709< jesus fuck. I somehow misread this as anything other than "deadline".
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 23:21 adlai hopes gabriel_laddel_p has no dead line in mind
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: anyways, to that point, there is no deadline for any of this, but your updates should be ~weekly and you should be working on it 6hrs+ a day if you want your life to amount to anything.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p it's ternary not ternery.
gabriel_laddel_p: Godamnnit. I fucking _hate_ whiteboards and these stupid fucking "air fresheners" they stick all over the place.
phf: gabriel_laddel_p: have you tried resurrecting (?) beirc, seems like a proper tmsr machine needs an irc client
gabriel_laddel_p: What _exactly_ was so wrong with blackboards that they had to be done away with?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the mined by another is probably the operative concern.
gabriel_laddel_p: that they worked?
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p people get exposure chalk dust allergy.
gabriel_laddel_p can barely resist the urge to stick "google toxic encephalopathy" under each air freshener I find.
gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, does anyone know of an intelligent person who uses air fresheners/fabreez?
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: it works fine.
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: ships with masamune.
phf: ah, k. i just keep seeing kiwiirc in your quit
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: you dun want to know about my life situation...
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: anyways, I have suggested using a +v irc channel + CL-FTP + beirc as a "CLIM-web" so we can ditch the browser tomorrow
gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger was supposed to put this together, but (surprise) has not.
gabriel_laddel_p: adlai: ^ another thing you can do. The patch to fix CL-FTP is in the logs.
Framedragger: i was not supposed to do anything gabriel_laddel_p. stop with the passive aggressive tone already, it's annoying
phf: wait how does cl-ftp ties into ircing?
adlai: gabriel_laddel_p: please don't give me makework, it's more than enough to have received a rootset of (what's the word that means what 'people' actually mean when they say 'hopefully'?) useful material.
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: instead of having "web applications" we have a +v, invite only irc channel where our CL programs communicate. Well-formed messages are treated as FTP endpoints to download arbitrary information.
gabriel_laddel_p: ditch the whole stupidity of "caching" the web, local storage etc
gabriel_laddel_p: just download the DB along with the UI.
adlai thinks gabriel_laddel_p would make an excellent phb
adlai: nothing passive nor aggressive about this, just plain old fact.
gabriel_laddel_p: and a bot you can "deedbot" a networked program to
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598410 << at the risk of furthering the thread on harmonic interferometry, you don't "get" dsotm until you "hear" (not with teh ears, but in the heart, or wherever the pineal gland lives these days) the 251
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:31 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that's pretty cool. i see what you mean - you can see craters and the dark side still being the moon... collective delusion / cognitive dissonance something something! (and btw i meant the album but both work well in this instance..) :)
adlai: gabriel_laddel_pm | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598715 < also, it sounds like you might have been sorely miseducated your entire life. << whaddya want, he was a populist; yet in his defense, he was my first math^H^Harithmetic teacher who... how do i put this, had a mentor relationship with his charges rather than just "these are the numbers, these are their sums"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 23:22 adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: mnemnion_ is back
adlai: oh, the right word is 'algebra'. dude taught me algebra.
ben_vulpes: beirc shits itself when i run it naively. complaints re no generic function for cl-irc:nickname or the like
ben_vulpes: i have nfi dude
adlai ceasefires re:glp until he has something to show for himself (all for antecedent superpositions are valid)
adlai: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p and fwiw, i have somewhere in my desk-mess a whiteboard+eraser that make beatiful love without any solvents
jhvh1: adlai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: dude srsly ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:39 gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger was supposed to put this together, but (surprise) has not.
Framedragger: i told gabriel i'd be interested in reviewing clim-web etc.; he sent me a very nice email with instructions incl. setup; this was 20 dec; i didn't have time to look at it.
mircea_popescu: a ok.
Framedragger: ("supposed" and "putting this together" is really stretching it, but i agree that "hey i didn't commit to anything" is a really shitty attitude, of the same kind as "i hacked up loggotron but it's bad lol")
mircea_popescu: i dunno why he expects "i'll act like mp" will work for him, but i guess it's worth a shot.
ben_vulpes: not necessarily that shitty of an attitude in this case Framedragger
ben_vulpes: anything other than "yeah i'll get right on it" is a "no" in my book
Framedragger: true. and treating it differently leads to mismatched expectations.
ben_vulpes: now if gabriel_laddel_p has returned to say "omfg you said you would" the fun continues!
ben_vulpes: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: slow night on tmsr
mircea_popescu: more voice more voice have a look 'an here we go
ben_vulpes: hey ovh why does it take more than fifteen seconds to charge a cc? what do you use, bitcoin?
adlai is confused, can't the _p-erson up itself?
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598796 < if only there were some system you could buy where everything worked out of the box.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:48 ben_vulpes: beirc shits itself when i run it naively. complaints re no generic function for cl-irc:nickname or the like
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: omg come back with a reproducible build
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:39 Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: i don't have much free time now, either. maybe end of next week, at this rate. re. CLIM web - any notes / writeup to help? as in, 20min of your time to save some hours of my time while helping you?
mircea_popescu: buenas tardes senor
mod6: Hola Senor Popescu!
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598800 < proof by counterexample works I suppose.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:51 adlai: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p and fwiw, i have somewhere in my desk-mess a whiteboard+eraser that make beatiful love without any solvents
mircea_popescu: donde son los albondigalitas
mod6: It's like 7 deg. F., but I just grilled some awesome cheddarworst on the grill. Damn they were good.
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: iirc with ovh, paypal sometimes doesn't clear till next business day. possibly same with CC. needs to be checked manually. if you raise a ticket with them they'll tell you that, and nothing will get fast-tracked. :/
mircea_popescu: everything i hear about ovh makes me think it's a french company.
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: you realize that there will be a price hike after this is complete correct?
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: it was 200, then 300, now 410
mod6: what about for me? can i still pay 200?
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you realize that every day you continue faffing about like this the odds anyone here will pay one red cent for masamune goes down?
phf: mod6: will be selling it on ebay for 5k "collector edition ma-sa-mu-ne" in 40 years
Framedragger: verifying ovh downtime is sometimes a matter of deciphering french tweets from this octave guy https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000515962445/dbcf2529f787de1233a72011d216d992_400x400.jpeg straight from french cinema
ben_vulpes: it was low, then you lost your key, now i don't even wat
mod6: i actually kinda wanna test this guy out
mod6: but yah, wtf with the key, etc?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger butter sauce. i can tell by the liver-shot eyes and the wattle.
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: it wasn't for sale at any point when I had the old key, but I suppose that's just "faffing"
gabriel_laddel_p: ben_vulpes: incidentally, if I'm wasting my time here with Framedragger and adali, can you also negrate them so they can be put !!down?
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel_p: you're the one damaging snr tonight
mircea_popescu: wait, he's actually serious ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it boggles.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: but of course
mircea_popescu: listen, take a break. all this "work" you do on computers is getting in the way of your life.
mircea_popescu: it'll still be here next year.
mircea_popescu: and in other boating girls, http://68.media.tumblr.com/2088dfe8c6c6bbf2200fbfeb3706c352/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo10_1280.jpg
mod6: but yeah, im not gonna live on some boat like rud00d, but would be into taking her out for daily runs of piracy and vaginal stabbings
mircea_popescu: boat is never as cramped as when the four resident girls get their cramps.
mod6: yah, im with you. i don't think i could deal with being at sea, indefiniately.
ben_vulpes: lotsa jewesses today mircea_popescu
mod6: for a short trip, fuck yea. otherwise, no.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can you tell by the length of the penis ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski ahahaha waterbatgh eh ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 as friend once said, "solitary confinment is just great - i take one just about every time i go to the john."
mod6: when reading "Snow Crash" this year, and after Hanjin went bankrupt, was thinkin, "sure, could buy some of those things... tie 'em together and start an ``ark''". but who would wanna basically live at sea for years on end?
mircea_popescu: well it has the advantage that you can piss out the window.
mod6: aha, ya, well, 'tis true.
mircea_popescu: also in red cup news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/0511676a0cdec1e72600da644c703a8d/tumblr_nxy4dmDkF21uw9prro1_1280.jpg
mod6: I like this Red Cup news.
mod6: also, is that Col. Kilgore?!
mircea_popescu: may be the antivirus guy
mircea_popescu: what was his name
mircea_popescu: mctoffee or something
mod6: ah ya
mod6: Anyway, nice chatting for a minute ... but I better get back to work :]
mod6: will check in later.
ben_vulpes: phf: consider making http://btcbase.org/patches/*/seal/ return a plaintext list of seals?
phf: like all the seals?
ben_vulpes: for the * patch
phf: sounds good
ben_vulpes: also if you'd be so kind as to add http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017_cleanup.vpatch to your tree i'd be much obliged. if the hopper is working again just let me know and i'll dump vpatches in there
ben_vulpes: thank yew!
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: haha yup, the wild west needs a wittle washing ;) and ty for the qntra ups, might've been the first time BingoBoingo actually used my suggested title!
pete_dushenski: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p "what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?" << if you're thinking of one as a residence, i could see it.
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
phf: i still have an issue of global namespace for vpatches. i'm not yet sure that they need namespacing. it's sort of inconsequential for when you do your own press, but in terms of permanent urls you have the first come first served problem..
ben_vulpes: phf: saw it, gracias!
ben_vulpes: phf: aye
pete_dushenski: also, dear republic, laocoon (22.214.171.124) is back online, relaying better and more widely than ever. sorry for any inconvenience.
ben_vulpes: i left -verifyall in my node's boot script for some reason, took me a minute to figure out why it was taking forever to reboot the other day
ben_vulpes: strace showed LOTS OF FUCKING READS which got me thinking in the right direction
pete_dushenski: Framedragger: can you shed some light on how exactly scriba archives ? wondering if my little 'medium trick' has any merit at all or is merely a duplication of effort if links are dropped in-chan
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: how much faster is boot w/o --verifyall ?
ben_vulpes: couldn't tell ya, i killed the process and ran it again without the flag in question
ben_vulpes: did you ever grok what i said about kill -9?
ben_vulpes: you can nuke a stuck node in place without having to restart the whole machine.
pete_dushenski: o ya, sorry for not answering directly but yes, grokked
ben_vulpes: groovy, nbd
phf: (psa: will corrupt data with higher probability)
ben_vulpes: didn't like the thought of you wasting your time on operating system reboots
pete_dushenski: phf: which will ?
ben_vulpes: yeah phf makes a point: kill -9 can hose data.
phf: well, both
phf: i think if you shutdown kernel will give a grace period to stuck userspace processes and then kill 9 it anyway
pete_dushenski: in other groks, http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/japans-new-business-language-english
pete_dushenski: "Japan's population is ageing. Our economy is slowing. We are not producing enough coders and digital gurus. The only way we can catch up and restore growth and dynamism is by looking outside our borders for talent.
pete_dushenski: " << doesn't quite jive with mackenzie's experience as to the availability of coders but gotta sow the seeds of propaganda that 'japan is falling behind' when in fact seiko, toyota, yonex, panasonic, and more are all leading their fields globally
pete_dushenski: one can only attribute the electronic reliability of toyotas and hondas to the availability of ~the right kind~ of coders in japan. compare and contrast with those of us or germany, it'd be a hoot.
phf: that gwern's paper that i linked indirectly explains what's "right" kind of coder, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1580059
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 23:21 phf: and on the subject of japan and doing things right, gwern wrote about internet culture in japan http://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20Society#japan-and-the-internet he got everything wrong, but the subject is interesting
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598886 << in general it should be tree_author_arbitraryname ; that resolves the namespace issue i expect
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 02:07 phf: i still have an issue of global namespace for vpatches. i'm not yet sure that they need namespacing. it's sort of inconsequential for when you do your own press, but in terms of permanent urls you have the first come first served problem..
mircea_popescu: so that it's trb_mod6_doesgirlsonboats.vpatch vs vtron_phf_addsnamespaces.vpatch. no conflict possible.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski verifyall actually rechecks the chain. takes potentially hours.
mircea_popescu: phf ben_vulpes : it won't corrupt anything if the berkley db is ran in "detached" mode, which it prolly should be. i don't recall if we put this in the trb or not.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597363 << please excuse the nitpick, but given this thread, 'tree' is a misnomer.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 06:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem of "how to sort two patches which alter entirely disjuncts subsets of the file set" is not exactly clear. unless they declare how they prefer to be sorted.
mircea_popescu: how do you reason ?
adlai should probably provide an example instead of babbling, but: it's possible to produce distinct antecedents for the same patch
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski fortunately nobody gives a flying fuck what esl speakers say on any topic. this is very deeply difficult for the selfsame esltards to grok, but it DOES explain why trilema is more widely read than nytimes.
pete_dushenski: linguistic sluts ftw
mircea_popescu: adlai in general, patch says who its antecedents are.
ben_vulpes: ah, the "roots" thread?
phf: the read part of the story is vapid, but the unread part is more interesting, and therefore will be completely missed by the target audience of that article: somewhere in the world, there's a corporation that can change its ~internal communications language~ because the ceo said so
mircea_popescu: no, this'd be different ; that was about adding references ~in the files~ as comments ; this is about the patches (ie, diffs)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: patch says what antecedent file hashes it stemmed from, no?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah, different layers.
adlai: patches state what state their antecedents must produce, but they don't commit to the antecedent itself
phf: adlai: i agree, it's a general graph, rather than a tree, has loops etc.
mircea_popescu: phf this has happened before. specifically the guy recently named in log, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584020
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 13:42 mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of nothing in particular, everyone heard of carlos ghosn ? quite the fellow.
mircea_popescu: adlai yes, in that formulation it could be linked to the antecedent-in-file thread.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the reason it's a tree is ~because we say so~, not because in and of itself it ~is~. there's no way for a pile of code to be a tree outside of the will of the people writing code.
pete_dushenski: phf: aha cheers. saw the link but didn't read the gwern piece. will now.
phf: pete_dushenski: just the linked appendix, rest requires even more entomological equipment.. :p
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in accidental vulva accidents, http://68.media.tumblr.com/83278159c3180a1620e23653612bfa07/tumblr_o85u04w8pZ1qzhjh2o1_1280.jpg
pete_dushenski is more enthralled with japanese culture by the day. intends to construct a house (and garage) stocked with their finest products.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty fxd
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: ganbatte
Framedragger: pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/05/a-quick-trick-to-save-medium-articles-before-they-go-bye-bye/#comment-53750
Framedragger: (tl;dr right now, scriba only submits to archive.is (with no local retention of requested site); the "did archive.is actually accept the submission" check has been improved, and can be used via the `!$ getarchive` command. local retention should take place eventually though, imo.)
asciilifeform: phf: the part where jp is pathologically, direly, trapped in winblowzland, is actually true.
Framedragger: (and in regards to duplication of effort, technically yes, i think (though you're advising web.archive.org'd sites to be then submitted to archive.is, right?), but that can't be a bad thing. additional prudent advice could include "how to save local copy with images and stylesheets" note, i guess..)
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598387 << Just set a jar of peanut butter between then and let them sort it out
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:17 ben_vulpes: lol omfg rescue dog food from child, only to be blessed by cries of anger when dog takes banana from child
asciilifeform: i at one point wanted to use the mighty 'super-H' (ss in sega) chip, salivated over the manual, but turned out, all the dev tools from vendor are microshitian, and even the ~example sources~ wouldn't unpack without some microturd
Framedragger: pete_dushenski: i haven't checked, but `wget --page-requisites $URL` may be enough for the latter.
asciilifeform: *as in sega
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: likely less amusing than you'd expect, scarcity is key to conflict
pete_dushenski: Framedragger: comment answered, cheers :) /me didn't have much success with wget and, eg. tlp, but other sites may be more amenable to it
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 02:55 Framedragger: (tl;dr right now, scriba only submits to archive.is (with no local retention of requested site); the "did archive.is actually accept the submission" check has been improved, and can be used via the `!$ getarchive` command. local retention should take place eventually though, imo.)
asciilifeform: *thought about
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I didn't think dogs, especially big dogs had a concept of "plenty" when it came to peanut butter.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: child will get distracted by the wonder that is a fistful of pb tho
ben_vulpes: ah which reminds me, gotta go lubricate the child
Framedragger: asciilifeform: actually what i also like about archive.is (don't get me wrong, i agree that trusting a service run by some d00d not in wot isn't super future-proof, ahem) is that it *does* save a bitmap rendered image for the site, too
asciilifeform: it is not only closed-rando, but takes eons.
asciilifeform: (a standard heathen browser loads same crud in a fee sec)
asciilifeform: *few sec
ben_vulpes: should be a paid service, really, debiting the accounts of whomever pastes the link
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598955 << problem is solved problem, just requires work. at the very least we can easily replicate archive.is functionality
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 03:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm not pulling out the fucking launch codes to sign a beobachter url omfg
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: from the log!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i think ben_vulpes intends to say that deedbot's forthcoming payment service could keep track of invoicing
asciilifeform: if we were on mars and paid a buck a byte for bw, it'd almost make sense
ben_vulpes: and whoever !!up's someone is on the hook for the cost of archiving their links.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: needs no dependency on deedbot
Framedragger: asciilifeform: there's that station-key vs. identity-key idea of yours, perhaps the former could could be allowed to go a few cents into debit, though this is maybe a road to complexity madness..
ben_vulpes: oh ffs
asciilifeform: Framedragger: mircea_popescu had a more recent discussion re 'sybil constellations'
asciilifeform: but presently we have no such thing
ben_vulpes: we have a log attributing lines to wot members whence this nonsense i ask you
a111: Logged on 2016-10-21 21:42 phf: they are using Qt webkit integration, either through a hacked up version of phantomjs, or something handwritten. there's enough hooks in qt, that you can figure out what was loaded, where it got stored in local cache and where it's being used.
asciilifeform: phf: this method has a problem
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: i think asciilifeform hates the idea of trusting fleanode to maintain nick-to-identity mappings. the !!up/down model was *supposed* to eliminate gribble-like state anyway, right?
asciilifeform: if your www renderer has a hole...
phf: asciilifeform: i said ~at least replicate archive.is~
asciilifeform: phf: a public www toilet ideally would have guaranteed isolation of universes.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: we're talking usgpennies here
pete_dushenski to pizza
asciilifeform: replicating a.is would not be all that hard, could even use an instrumented civilian browser
asciilifeform: but quite unhygienic.
phf: right, just nobody dun it :>
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: suresure, i agree that it'd be fine, but i expect someone could concoct a "sybil account keeps draining pennies" argument.. but eh. yeah.
phf: instead they's splitting bitcents between em :p
asciilifeform: nobody wants to preside over the syphilitic bordello that would result.
asciilifeform: and yes i have nfi what is with this preoccupation with charging each other pennies for a ~0-cost pipeline
asciilifeform: reminds me of the scene in b00k 'atlas shrugged' where the zillionaires in the invisible magic valley give each other gold coins when borrowing cup of sugar
Framedragger: well, you mentioned sybil. this may help avoid sybil url submission spam. granted, the latter may be avoided by "only people currently voiced / currently in l2 / l1" filter, etc..
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'sybil' in that thread meant something rather nonstandard
asciilifeform: it was about folks like asciilifeform having multiple keys that are used for different things, but wot-connected as if they were people
ben_vulpes: could just be for wot, point is nothing for allcomers
Framedragger: creating an impression of a strong wot and so on, i see.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu proposed this as a somewhat cleaner solution to the vectored-sig problem
asciilifeform: and i am quite convinced now that no cleaner answer will be found.
Framedragger off to sleep, damn you west-of-ocean peoples!
asciilifeform: (thread was iirc originally about a vtronic gentoo cleanup, and i noted that nobody with half a brain would sign a gig of dubious rubbish code with their naked, unvectored lordly key)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: just don't autoarchive pastes by tempvoiced folx
Framedragger: ahh. so you'd e.g. have a 'weaker' key (with a certain limited degree of trust) which could sign those kinds of abonimations. pretty elegant! (also disregard my "impression of strong wot" comment, i had misunderstood)
asciilifeform: one of the minuses imho is that it will increase the cost of ferreting out cases of http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ .
asciilifeform: (then again, maybe not)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598911 << apparently while i slept in my cave, jp went down the same toilet as everybody else: honda had a ~firmware bug~ recall recently , power steering controller crashed while in motion, users instructed to reboot motherfucking auto! on roadside
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 02:25 pete_dushenski: one can only attribute the electronic reliability of toyotas and hondas to the availability of ~the right kind~ of coders in japan. compare and contrast with those of us or germany, it'd be a hoot.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598613 << Until you get a mailing address a better question is "What are the dealbreakers I should look for on a 2003 Saturn L-series?"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 21:26 gabriel_laddel_p: pete_dushenski: what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?
asciilifeform: (at least the thing wasn't a 'fly by wire', it remains physically possible to steer sans hydraulics, but the sudden wtf may well get you crunching under oncoming traffic or off a bridge )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo : if/when my auto gives up the ghost, i'm getting another ~2003, and not because cheap, but because wtf omfg firmware?!
asciilifeform: some of the recent machines are rumoured to contain winblowz, even.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: AHA! Yes.
asciilifeform: 'no comp' is a moherfuckng FEATURE
asciilifeform: iirc even recent 'cessna', for instance, had 0 cpu
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598655 << Oh my? And what happened when you hit breaker bar with mallet? That's when things revealed their defects?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 22:18 ben_vulpes: even the mighty pblaster could not free them
asciilifeform: 100% carburetted.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: for passenger car engine control computer for fuel injection is nearly necessary due to the ethanol dabacle
asciilifeform: the z80 in my old toyota -- worked for 20+ yrs and probably worx even nao
asciilifeform: 0 crashes.
asciilifeform: 0 detectable bugs.
BingoBoingo: But now "new" includes fucking MSWindows dorkathon instead of actual Radio!
BingoBoingo: And turdscreen is plugged into fuel injection computer
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: no breaker bar necessary, these were 10mm fuckers
ben_vulpes: battery tie down rod simply failed under torsional load: "that...didn't feel like the rust giving way. jesus /fuck/."
ben_vulpes: hah fml my v implementation presses into the same directory as that as which contains the patches and seals
phf: can make vpatches that generate vpatches! it's metacircular
ben_vulpes: if only it could also evaluate itself
ben_vulpes: OH WAIT
phf: you just put the lisp code in the same folder
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:35 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p people get exposure chalk dust allergy.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598772 << Cleanliness is the better than coverup, but OMG PineSol's active component is turpentine! Think of the wonder VOCs!
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 00:36 gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, does anyone know of an intelligent person who uses air fresheners/fabreez?
adlai: such puns
asciilifeform: for non-usaschwitzinmates, who have nfi what gabriel_laddel_p was on about: the medieval idiocy of hygiene-via-parfumery is alive and well in this monkeystan
asciilifeform: it is especially entertaining to asciilifeform that this was brought up, because in so far as i can tell the entire masamune thing is precisely an instance thereof, in its domain.
asciilifeform: (and yes i watched the film)
asciilifeform: apparently nothing has changed since last saw clim !
asciilifeform: i can still WATCH the fucking scrollbars draw.
BingoBoingo does not have time to watch advertising videos unless they are selling black girl pussy.
asciilifeform: (i will admit that until watching the film i held out hope that g_l ACTUALLY fixed the thing. but turns out -- no dice.)
BingoBoingo: Anyways new Pinesol sucks because "reformulated" now just another perfumed mess of detergents
asciilifeform: and since he's asleep i will predict what he would say, 'stfu, the perfume smells great, even if it is exactly same one you smelled decade ago without me, and i'll get the bubonic plague underneath out later!'
asciilifeform: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p didja ever write down publicly what it was precisely that you did to clim ~other~ than to carve your initials into its flesh ?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598946 << i thought that was more of a south korea / banking driven thing, not so much japan
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 02:56 asciilifeform: phf: the part where jp is pathologically, direly, trapped in winblowzland, is actually true.
asciilifeform: also jp.
mircea_popescu has nfi, i'll believe.
phf: fwiw i wouldn't say they are "trapped". as i don't think they care about anything else. they don't keep up to date with microsoft modern and bestest. they still release ms stack software with xp compatibility for example
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598955 << just download the fucking archive.is archive zips already omygerd.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 03:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i tried, recall, this.
asciilifeform: got garbage about half the time.
asciilifeform: curl, wget, whichever. same result.
mircea_popescu: you did ? hm. i somehow dun recall.
asciilifeform: forgot the magic-zip thread ?
asciilifeform: still unsolved enigma.
mircea_popescu: all i recall from it was "alf got problem couldn't be replicated".
asciilifeform: i dun recall anybody but mircea_popescu trying the replicate
asciilifeform: but otherwise yes
asciilifeform: this aside, the most recent thread began with archive.is being ~down~
phf: i was playing along. i think could unpack it with pkzip, but not the open source equivalent
asciilifeform: which one didja use phf -- the msdos one ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what he says is what happened, you had broken unzipper wouldn't fix it. which is fine, but also no basis for discussing anything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: holy fuck, 'broken', using same one for decade+ with zero incident.
asciilifeform: and fwiw the turd wouldn't unzip on winblowz or crapple either.
mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall tracing the problem towards unzip version but giving up under barrage of strange.
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu or anybody else get MY hashed zip to unpack ?
asciilifeform: link to log plox ?
asciilifeform: (and i meant MY zip, as in what came out of my wall plug, and not what-mircea_popescu-got-from-curl)
phf: crapple uses open source code for unzipping. where's i believe pkware eventually open sourced their code too. so now there's two competing versions floating around.
mircea_popescu: but why would i/anyone do that ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because my working hypothesis was that my copy came from mitmtron.
mircea_popescu: well ok, but what's that do.
mircea_popescu: just get it over diff connection.
asciilifeform: i still have nfi exactly what. it's been backburnered since.
asciilifeform: but it remains that relying on that one rando's box to create the zips, is a dubious thing.
asciilifeform: i'm not certain how it beats, for instance, google.
asciilifeform: or archive.org. or any other creature of heathendom.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1599001 << no dude, this suffers of apocriphal bible issue by now. point was that outsider ~can't distinguish~ between "different" identities in the sense of bit-different or cock-different.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 03:14 Framedragger: creating an impression of a strong wot and so on, i see.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it beats it in that it's there.
asciilifeform: well today, for instance, it WASN'T there.
asciilifeform: when it was needed.
mircea_popescu: not everything has or needs a deeply philosophical answer. archive bot should save the urls and get the zips. big whoop.
mircea_popescu: and if they're mitm'd, it's even more valuable, now we get a collection of strange zips.
mircea_popescu: how could that POSSIBLY be an argument against.
asciilifeform: is mircea_popescu really defending a single point of failure being presided over by wotless heathen ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude the whole discussion was what happens if archive ~goes away~. NOT what happes if archive is down.
mircea_popescu: stop mixing everything together ffs.
asciilifeform: and, iirc, the very same wotless heathen who was responsible for the fate of dulap-1.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you're on about on either of these.
asciilifeform: the 'we'll unplug nightly' thing.
mircea_popescu: what about it ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you think he did not know ?
mircea_popescu: who's he!
asciilifeform: the archive.is d00d.
asciilifeform: who was subcontractor for that box.
mircea_popescu: look. i dunno what set of assumptions/convictions/determinations of fact you're operating under ehre, but to be plain, the situation as observed from my chair is as follows :
mircea_popescu: a) alf wrote a first version of phuctor, which wasn't very good. this is excusable in that it was a first version, and altogether irrelevant ; b) alf's version being not very good was accidentally exposed through ordinary course of business ; c) alf got very butthurt at this circumstance, and kept whining about it in the logs ; d) having had enough of the whine at some later point, i presented him with the choice of either fi
mircea_popescu: xing his code or going away ; e) so butthurt was alf over his code being no good in some particular and not terribly relevant way, he decided to go away. this caused phuctor to be offline for about a year. f) at some later point, getting a machine in the same datacenter if memory serves, alf declared that remnants from archive.is were found i dun recall how or where. this is entirely possible, and in any case i've not invest
asciilifeform: it was absolutely not-very-good.
asciilifeform: ran in O(N^2).
asciilifeform: but you're missing a letter between c and d, which is where the hoster found out about the particular weakness and started unplugging the box.
mircea_popescu: now - wut of all of this ? maybe it was the same guy, i guess, maybe there was a conspiracy to reboot the server, i guess, maybe etcetera. i'm unconvinced nor do i see it matters any.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
asciilifeform: and granted if this had not happened, i probably would not have gotten off arse and rewritten the thing, and it would be ~useless nao.
mircea_popescu: a cheap explanation would be for instance
asciilifeform: but the perpetrator was still no friend.
mircea_popescu: holy shit check out this idiot.
mircea_popescu: a cheap explanation would be for instance - that archive people hosted in same place, and left for same reason.
mircea_popescu: or whatever thousand others. i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: well i dun think anyone's a friend, including the baker. i've not yet geiger-countered the flour.
asciilifeform: granted that i do not know, if he left, if he stayed, what role he played. at least partly because d00d is not in the wot! and never speaks in the forum.
asciilifeform: which was 100% of my complaint really.
mircea_popescu: i think i shot him an email once which he replied
mircea_popescu: o yeah, cuz i lifted the js for text selection from his site.
mircea_popescu: and iirc reported a bug or something. anyway.
asciilifeform: at any rate i did not say d00d is enemy. only 'not friend.'
asciilifeform: but 'tmsr has no friends but its army and navy' or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: right. anyway, to dispell the possible implication - it's not that i like secretly know whoever runs archive.is
mircea_popescu: i have nfi, item seems to work is the entire extent of the thing ; and i don't specifically know him to be a hitler crony, like i do specifically know archive.org to be a hitler crony.
mircea_popescu: and i see no problem with any other or only other services be used - which iirc i even said when bot spec for archival was drawn, that everyone making one should ideally use a diff service
asciilifeform: speaking of rusty infrastructure, mircea_popescu -- the link to wot on your www appears to still point to mike_c's
mircea_popescu: but for some reason nobody seems to have an alt preference. such as for instance because they don't exist or i have nfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc i was waiting for trinque to ok it.
asciilifeform: aah ok
asciilifeform: !#seen trinque
a111: 2017-01-07 <trinque> afk for a while
asciilifeform: lol, just when i needed him!1111
asciilifeform will plug the shiny new rewritten phuctorwerker back in when trinque's rss baselinesyncs
asciilifeform: it was tested until it screamed, worx 100%.
asciilifeform: also db scrubbed of all spurious factors.
asciilifeform: (strictly matching the rule of 'f == m and f is not factor of any other m'
BingoBoingo: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p Are you ready to take step 1 yet?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: cool. anyway, what's teh rush.
asciilifeform: no rush.
asciilifeform to bed.