Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-06-27 | 2015-06-29 →
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: -addnode works
asciilifeform: -connect --- no
asciilifeform: of course this is useless
asciilifeform: but shows that packets do move
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00039312 = 1.7297 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it really ought not to be necessary to move blockchains with bare hands!
asciilifeform: that's what '-connect' is for
mod6: wow, just getting caught up here. have been afk for a while here today...
mod6: <+asciilifeform> now what i can't remember is whether mod6 already had this orchestra working <+asciilifeform> (with glibc+static) << v0.5.3.1-RELEASE basically is not true "static" build because of the gethostbyname() (DNS/libnss) calls in there. but was trying to build static bitcoind with uclibc/gcc on gentoo, was hitting a problem described here before. If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinkin
asciilifeform: mod6: msg got cut off
asciilifeform: at 'I'm thinking tha'
mod6: oh crap. ok sorry.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i know. what can i do over here.
mod6: If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinking that would get us where we want to be; sounds like you've done that!
mod6: my pos car got a flat today, so I limped it up to the station to get a new tire & walked the ~3 miles back.
asciilifeform: mod6: there is still and also figuring out wtf gives with '-connect'
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:47:49; asciilifeform: (though i'd like to shoot that 'gconv-modules.cache' and 'locale-archive' crud in the head...)
mod6: only to find out that both front springs are broken (lol) and that's what caused the tire to blow out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, ok if i move back to public access for this ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: go ahead
asciilifeform: i don't think overcrowding was the issue here
mod6: so now I've got this company to pay $185 and take it off my hands for scrap. hahah
mircea_popescu: got the command predigested for me ?
asciilifeform: aaand hey
asciilifeform: it worked
asciilifeform: it's milking
mod6: you got connected to mp's blockchain milk? or -connect worked for you?
asciilifeform: what did mircea_popescu do ?
mircea_popescu: i played wiff girl.
mircea_popescu: game of yatze
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima keep it locked to your ip till tomorro then
mircea_popescu: if nothing else then because "don't fuck with shit that works"
mod6: oh, forgot to mention. the place wanted $500 to replace the springs. which is what prompted me to `mv posCar /dev/scrap`
asciilifeform still wondering wtf that was all about
mircea_popescu: very weird.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27097 @ 0.00038778 = 10.5077 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: hmm
decimation: mod6: mechanics are famous for exploiting folks in what they think are vulnerable situations
mod6: yeah, they were pretty blown away when I just came and told 'em i was gonna scrap it.
trinque lawls at the naked folks biking past him
trinque: there are things to like about this communist land
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now stuck again...
asciilifeform: after 43929
mod6: it's not processing blocks? or you're getting disconnected?
asciilifeform: stalled
mod6: hmm. give it 10 minutes to be sure... unless it's taking on those weird errors
asciilifeform: no errors
asciilifeform: just... stalls
asciilifeform: as in, nothing moving over the pipe
mod6: I remember from the block 168`001 issue (tx verification failed) that it would start dumping tons of errors if truly stuck.
mircea_popescu: eh listen, it's prolly getting too much attention
asciilifeform: again, not this
mod6: ah
mircea_popescu: let it be till tomorro, and we'll see what.
asciilifeform leaves the thing running
asciilifeform: picture so far is consistent with massive ddos, imho
mod6: asciilifeform: thanks a lot for your work tonight on the Static Builder. I'm a bit zapped to start getting into that tonight. Is it cool with you if I start testing it out tomorrow morning?
mod6: I can work on that and see where I can get with it; then I have to start working on the SoBA for June.
asciilifeform: mod6: no reason to hurry
mod6: Ok awesome.
asciilifeform: i'm about to sleep a bit myself
mod6: *nod*
mod6: thanks for all of your help :]
asciilifeform: this exercise did not take very long but for some reason very tiring
mod6: yeah, i hear ya.
mod6: get some rest. tomorrow we can keep on.
ben_vulpes: sleep? when all these titties are biking by?
ben_vulpes hauls out lawn chair and bottle of wine
mod6: haha.
trinque: ben_vulpes: y'know no sooner do I even consider relocating to the land of capitalism and Portland's like "but dude! an army of titties on bikes!"
trinque: ok portland, you win this round
trinque: this I think has something to do with the political problems throughout time
trinque: maybe I should get more drunk and see if pete_dushenski ends up writing about it
asciilifeform: another burst of milkage
asciilifeform: to 44429. stall.
mod6: nice. you think it's being packeted though?
asciilifeform: somebody's taking a king-sized shit in there
mod6: ah
asciilifeform: either that or somebody between here and there is 'losing' packets.
decimation: or there's a dysfunctional router somewhere
mod6: what does tr look like?
asciilifeform: decimation: not here
asciilifeform: some pretty serious strange
mod6: is it looping
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
mod6: asciilifeform: mine looks exactly the same.
decimation: asciilifeform: seems like 'unthreading bitcoind' would be an admiral goal
asciilifeform: decimation: ?
decimation: cutting out the locking, threads ,etc
asciilifeform: tcp without threads?
asciilifeform: gonna service 1 node at a time ?
asciilifeform: with polling ?
decimation: yeah, async
asciilifeform: screw that
mod6: heheh
asciilifeform: go build p2p net with 1-at-a-time
asciilifeform: (and what, someone wants to connect, you drop ~everything~ ?)
decimation: I've built several pure async servers
asciilifeform: decimation: what do they do? queue requests ?
decimation: generally, you write a while loop with epoll or whatever
decimation: jump to whatever bell rings
asciilifeform: as if this thing didn't suck enough balls
decimation: well, it seems to me that there ought to be a definable spec between "talk to peers" and "maintain database of blocks"
asciilifeform: decimation: unless i seriously misunderstood mircea_popescu, not only is the reference client the permanent spec, but so are the turdependencies
asciilifeform: and anything purporting to be a human-readable spec is necessarily incomplete
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25944 @ 0.00040271 = 10.4479 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: well, until the book is printed, studied, underped
decimation: over many man-years of effort
asciilifeform: and that we're more or less stuck with this until mythical 'sanity fork'
trinque: decimation: sounds kinda like what I understand nginx to be
trinque: munches a queue of that-which-must-be-done with 1-n workers
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think that a mathematically-rigorous description of openssl (not to even mention boost and bdb) could be achieved in 10,000 years of sweat
asciilifeform: or that anyone would wish to try.
decimation: even the severable bits that bitcoind really needs?
asciilifeform: it's 'the spittoon'
asciilifeform: none of it is really severable from any of it
decimation: well, ultimately it's all running machine code
decimation: might need to start at that level I guess.
asciilifeform actually began there
asciilifeform: tried to come up with a mechanical mapping back from bin to what produced each section in the elf
asciilifeform: even wrote buncha ida script idiocy
asciilifeform: had to put it down, too many other things going on
asciilifeform: gcc, as one might imagine, does not go out of its way to help this be a readily practical thing
asciilifeform: quite the contrary.
asciilifeform: rms ~deliberately~ nudges it, whenever he can, in the direction of being as opaque as possible
decimation: no and as I recall there's hand-written asm in openssl
asciilifeform: decimation: optional
decimation: sure, to keep folks from re-writing gcc
decimation: so he can haz powerz
asciilifeform: decimation: not quite
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:37:06; decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"
asciilifeform: .... and another short burst from mircea_popescu's node
asciilifeform: decimation: rms did not want it to break apart into readily-plagiarizable pieces.
asciilifeform: this is annoying but i understand 100%
asciilifeform: why he did it
ben_vulpes: erm i thought bitcoind *did* service one at a time, looping over sockets
ben_vulpes to src
decimation: sure, he wants to keep people from mkaing a bsd gcc
asciilifeform: gcc is the original lonely fort keeping the whole gpl thing alive
asciilifeform: the one thing the fucking parasites couldn't effectively plagiarize without leaving trace
asciilifeform: but this had a cost, yes.
asciilifeform: i will note that llvm (since i mentioned it again) is upon the most cursory examination a piece of shit, that wasn't even built to 'be good' - but simply with the one and only purpose of killing gcc.
asciilifeform: rms is spot-on here
asciilifeform: it exists, was built, to help him die.
decimation: I find it unlikely that the fsf will outlive him
asciilifeform: in the sense in which it is now alive? sure
asciilifeform: in the sense of keeping the 'reasonable' folks at bay? doubtful
decimation: maybe.
asciilifeform: as soon as he's out, 'reasonable' people will crawl in and 'make compromises'
decimation: gpl is pretty weak sauce unless you have a barrel of lawyers to help you enforce it
decimation: aye, agreed
decimation: all I want is a world where I get source when I get software
decimation: but I recognize that rms' stand is probably the only way
asciilifeform: won't ask for it to be buildable ?
asciilifeform: on something which in turn is buildable ?
decimation: really, he's already lost his war for the reasons you harp on re: bedrock
asciilifeform: rms doesn't do war. not for many years, anyway. he does 'lonely fort'
asciilifeform: keeping out whole universes full of filth
asciilifeform: that will come flooding in as soon as he's out of action
asciilifeform: it is already seeping through the cracks.
asciilifeform: has been, for some years now.
decimation: yeah, as far as I can tell gpl only really 'sticks' to fsf software directly
asciilifeform: gpl is really primarily about gcc and linuxkernel
asciilifeform: everything else is window dressing
decimation: not much use to a license if you don't intend on enforcing it
ben_vulpes: (curse these jackholes who littered the source with printstatements that include function names)
ben_vulpes: is there a sane cpp logging thing that could be used in place of these print statements?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there's gcc-specific stuff that folds the line and # into the print
asciilifeform: (can't recall off top of head what, precisely. rtfm...)
assbot: Standard Predefined Macros - The C Preprocessor ... ( )
assbot: Common Predefined Macros - The C Preprocessor ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: fprintf(stderr, "info: %s:%d: ", __FILE__, __LINE__);
ben_vulpes wonders at actual utility of a patch shaped like this
asciilifeform: i was reluctant to throw gccisms in there, but if we go and start building on mircea_popescu's soviet pdp11 we can always roll equivalent macros for that
asciilifeform: but if you ask me, this falls squarely under 'do this after it fucking ~works~' as described by mircea_popescu earlier.
asciilifeform sees another very short burst from mircea_popescu's node
asciilifeform: followed by silence...
asciilifeform: at this rate, the thing will sync some time after the eeproms in my computer lose 9/10th of their bits
asciilifeform: and i die of old age 3-5 times
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: << looping over nodes, handling messages including new blocks
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes but has accept()
ben_vulpes: pardon?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: is able to take new connections while doing said loop
ben_vulpes: << for log readers interested in how precisely bitcoin shits its pants when told to go to sleep
assbot: Satoshi identifier search: fShutdown ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but if you can write your own asynchronous everything, you can finally get the coveted msdos port...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4305 @ 0.00040539 = 1.7452 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: mnope.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja see
ben_vulpes: that'd be threadsockethandler?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok ?
mircea_popescu: what is
asciilifeform: damned if i know
mircea_popescu: does ntt europe have a dedicated, identifiable five eyes leecher ?
asciilifeform: wouldn't be the first
asciilifeform: and not merely leecher, but pisser
mircea_popescu: this entire experience painfully reminds me of the famous phoneline click somehow
asciilifeform: was just thinking this!
mircea_popescu: im sure it's just my feverish paranoia.
asciilifeform: if it's man-made, it's actually pretty classy
asciilifeform: dropping the connection would get bitcoind rotating to next node
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:04:04; asciilifeform: There is no dynamic section in this file.
asciilifeform: (supposing we weren't using -connect)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: partial win, it's still built on (static) glibc
asciilifeform: but the thing is running on my box now.
mircea_popescu: you actually managed to get glibc to static ?
mircea_popescu: this is pretty great.
asciilifeform: pull down the tarball from ml, try
asciilifeform: doesn't take high tech magic
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:30:30; asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu asks, this turd will be deployed to dulap (s.nsa box)
asciilifeform: drop deps in 'distfiles', run
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and yes, was gonna do this after certain tests. such as the one that is presently failing
asciilifeform: (-connect from motherlode)
asciilifeform: and would sorta like other folks to read the damn thing
asciilifeform: (no patches necessary to the bitcoind proper beyond what was published previously)
asciilifeform: see ml post.
mircea_popescu: did someoine actually answer "favourite pubkey algo" q with a ... hashing function ?!
asciilifeform: yeah some anon schmuck
mircea_popescu: "what's your favourite fish ?" "shoe"
mircea_popescu: "you mean sole ?" "o yeah that's the one!"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why "stator"
asciilifeform: 'the most delicious fish is the sausage.' --my grandfather
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: static bin
mircea_popescu: properly made sausage actually floats. therefore not a fish
mircea_popescu: but a witch
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ouch
mircea_popescu: are you a pain enthusiast ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to answer earlier q : i think for thius purpose (running on dulap etc) static glibc is exactly right.
mircea_popescu: doesn't help us on pogo, but that's a diff story.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was actually thinking of doing for ibmpc something like what i did for pogo
asciilifeform: e.g. a kernel that boots right into, this.
mircea_popescu: we'll have to bootstrap ourselves.
mircea_popescu: so that can be v 1.1
asciilifeform: y'know how some hoster folks let you drop an iso in when you get the thing
mircea_popescu: also, kernel is a good idea maybe for pogo. not for a proper server. you want people to add it to all their noncritical dedis.
asciilifeform: 'install favourite os'
asciilifeform: that'd be more for dedicated nodes, aha
asciilifeform: for mixing into daily life - normal package suffices
mircea_popescu: pogo = dedicated node ; this = stick everywhere
asciilifeform: but overall i like the idea of a dc box with bitcoind and LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE
asciilifeform: not even ssh
mircea_popescu: that box should not be in dc
mircea_popescu: but on consumer internet terminals.
asciilifeform: until we actually get limited mempool, shoot fragging in the head, etc. pogo will be a bit slow
asciilifeform: (it'll have to swap.)
mircea_popescu: understand - it's 10x to 100x more expensive to do a on random home cable than it is on servers
asciilifeform: unquestionably the whole 'p2p' thing is the right and proper objective
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46850 @ 0.00040636 = 19.038 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: but of necessity many of the boxes involved in the ramp-up will be pc.
asciilifeform: << can't entirely agree here. every so often folks discover carriers diddling 'consumer' traffic in obscene ways (adding tracking crud to http, even) having gone by for years at a time with not a squeak from the chumps
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 05:28:41; mircea_popescu: understand - it's 10x to 100x more expensive to do a on random home cable than it is on servers
asciilifeform: do this at a serious dc and you have half a dozen 'bofhs' going postal
ben_vulpes: pardon my thickness, but what is "this" now?
asciilifeform: because literate folks, heard of 'tcpdump', 'wireshark', etc
ben_vulpes: oh oh
asciilifeform: yeah, that this.
ben_vulpes: diddling.
ben_vulpes: what is the 10x to 100x refer to - not the ip cost at a 'home' terminal?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: cost of setting up diddler
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're thinking the 90s.
mircea_popescu: those people are retired.
asciilifeform: i'm still in the 90s
asciilifeform: posting from them right now, l0l
mircea_popescu: nice for you - but...
asciilifeform: it's about 1994 here in this room
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes just more nonsense to filter.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "what's your favourite fish ?" "shoe" << haha
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:31:39; trinque: ben_vulpes: y'know no sooner do I even consider relocating to the land of capitalism and Portland's like "but dude! an army of titties on bikes!"
assbot: World Naked Bike Ride | As Bare As You Dare ... ( )
mircea_popescu: << pretty much. HOWEVER, more movement has been made towards sanity in this chan over the past six months than since 2009.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:49:18; asciilifeform: and that we're more or less stuck with this until mythical 'sanity fork'
mats returns to the shadows
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:59:46; decimation: I find it unlikely that the fsf will outlive him
mircea_popescu: the fsf, and the "foss" concoction, are going to be gone before the usg.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, trinque, decimation: how does implement serialization such that it writes correctly-shaped data to CBlock here:
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
ben_vulpes: (and anyone else who understands cpp)
decimation: ugh template shit
ben_vulpes: maybe someday i'll understand what precisely's going on in serialize.h
ben_vulpes: just strikes me as a bit of black magic that a CDataStream can deserialize itself into a CBlock with just an overloaded right shift operator
decimation: yes, that's what the template does
decimation: 'overloads' >> with another function
ben_vulpes: but how does it know what to serialize the block message into
decimation: as in, what type?
ben_vulpes: maybe? perhaps i'm speaking poorly of ignorance.
ben_vulpes: is that `CBlock block` a contiguous-ish memory section?
mircea_popescu: unlikely.
decimation: can you tell me what line you are trying to understand? where the cblock is?
decimation: honestly I usually end up reading C++ reference books and mumbling to myself
ben_vulpes: decimation: i'm struggling to understand how results in a data structure that ProcessBlock can understand
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
ben_vulpes: << processblock, third line of which calls pblock->GetHash()
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
decimation: the IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE in CBlock is here
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
decimation: any class that serializes implements this macro
assbot: My isopropyl alcohol story. - Inhalant Abuse Prevention ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00040276 = 15.8486 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: mats, lol. he's in netherlands, has money, and can't find better drugs than denatured alcohol?
mats: that occurred to me as well
trinque: "I did it because i like the smell." << bahaha
trinque: I've heard that one re: cocaine too
trinque: I'm sure in this case he means it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14050 @ 0.00039684 = 5.5756 BTC [-]
trinque: I have sometimes been so worried about what huffing isopropyl alcohol did to me that I have even faked symptoms so that I could go to the doctor repeatedly and get all kinds of check-ups. << I gotta wonder if these people aren't just addicted to the notion that they're doing something crazy and bad.
trinque: and love whatever attention that brings too
assbot: Gorilla Shabani who was raised in Australia has found fame in Japan | Daily Mail Online ... ( )
assbot: RGJ Exclusive: BLM wants $1 million VIP compound from Burning Man ... ( )
cazalla: mircea_popescu, ya have not blocked me from with iptables have ya?
assbot: Scary fire accident in Taiwan!!! - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00039608 = 3.0894 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: punkman, we don't need no water let the mother fucker burn..
punkman: heh
assbot: Walmart Refuses to Make Confederate Flag, But Makes This Cake Instead - YouTube ... ( )
cazalla: could only get better if they storm his house and arrest him for an ISIS cake
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44812 @ 0.00040145 = 17.9898 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 17:21:41; mircea_popescu: "fata care cere palme" < face that demands slapping
assbot: Referendum (Grèce, Grecia, Greece, Griechenland, Grécia) : Alexis Tsipras - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15145 @ 0.00041102 = 6.2249 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9255 @ 0.00041723 = 3.8615 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: cazalla: would benefit from a chart
cazalla: ben_vulpes, ay yo charts don't be earning no s.qntr shares CC: pete_dushenski
assbot: FX Brokerages Move To "Close Only" Ahead Of Monday Open | Zero Hedge ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24445 @ 0.00042024 = 10.2728 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: CNN confuses sex toy banner for ISIS flag at Pride · PinkNews ... ( )
jurov: lol they see isis everywhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4131 @ 0.00042098 = 1.7391 BTC [+]
punkman: jurov, in their defence, it looks like one
jurov: not on second look
cazalla: somewhat similar to that if you dropped a few stars from the ussa flag, you'd still think it was the ussa flag
mircea_popescu: cazalla have not, no.
cazalla: got in eventually, just took 5-10m to log into wp-admin for some reason
mircea_popescu: now, why would it be for ~officials~ is another matter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30708 @ 0.00042154 = 12.9447 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: !up MacCheese
MacCheese: Does slackware spy on what you do on your computer?
MacCheese: I am Jesus Christ
punkman: welcome
MacCheese: meowmix081?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55750 @ 0.00041856 = 23.3347 BTC [-]
MacCheese: !s meowmix081
assbot: 1 results for 'meowmix081' :
MacCheese: !s meowmix
assbot: 59 results for 'meowmix' :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11791 @ 0.00042428 = 5.0027 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00041856 = 1.6742 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41098 @ 0.00041744 = 17.1559 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10526 @ 0.00042428 = 4.466 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68803 @ 0.00042449 = 29.2062 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49550 @ 0.00041744 = 20.6842 BTC [-]
assbot: William Hill PLC: No More Bets On Grexit - Media releases - Newsroom - Media ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00041744 = 5.385 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38800 @ 0.00041531 = 16.114 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00041437 = 8.909 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform, others: < hilarious. C++ methods being 'metaprogrammed' by C macro
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
decimation: satoshi had no shame
decimation: mixing C preprocessor and C++ templates would only occur to someone who had programed much C spagetti code in his life
decimation: ben_vulpes: to be clear, IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE is a C preprocessor macro that is composed of other C preprocessor macros (READWRITE) that ends up dangling all the serialize/deserialize methods onto classes of his choosing
decimation: the methods themselves being C++ template methods
punkman: nice one
kakobrekla: spacex just disintegrated heh
mats: i was also watching the stream
mats: rocket disintegrates mid air
mats: ...oops.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19904 @ 0.00041404 = 8.2411 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sync from your node (or from hitler's mitm node...!) is at 193600+ and counting
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: traceroute looks same today as last night.
asciilifeform: and it still runs in 'bursts.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00040364 = 15.076 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'BLM Special Agent Dan Love of Salt Lake City was cited multiple times as the person behind many of the BLM requests, according to the emails. Love will have a personal bathroom trailer to be shared with only one other official, according to documents. Love also led the BLM operation against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy that ended in a standoff with Bundy's armed supporters. He did not return requests for comment this week.'
asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l
asciilifeform has never been to 'burning man' thing and never really grasped the appeal
mats: 'culture'
asciilifeform: if i wanted to sit in the sun and dig latrines i could do it for free in .mil
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16491 @ 0.00040364 = 6.6564 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: they have better pyrotechnics too.
asciilifeform: << cpp programmers in particular have no notion of hygiene. and the more experienced, the less of a notion they have, as a rule
assbot: Satoshi ... ( )
asciilifeform: << pretty much what naggum said: the language and its ecosystem encourages this kind of mental decay - and selects for the susceptible in the first place
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 14:23:29; decimation: the methods themselves being C++ template methods
assbot: Re: Why a lisp OS? Re: Help required on Limitations of Lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
asciilifeform: in particular, 'in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^^
asciilifeform: (re: the gconv thing. i've been bashing my head against the conundrum of how to tear out that idiocy from my static build)
asciilifeform: it ~has~ to go
asciilifeform: go and strace the thing and yes, it snarfs up this perfectly-irrelevant turd from disk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00040671 = 18.3426 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: poettering et al are small change in comparison
asciilifeform: linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers.
asciilifeform: << my build cannot be considered battlefield-ready in this sense until the gconv thing is burned out with hot irons
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 05:26:58; mircea_popescu: also, kernel is a good idea maybe for pogo. not for a proper server. you want people to add it to all their noncritical dedis.
asciilifeform: that thing is a ready, lubricated orifice for slithering vermin
asciilifeform: the thing that boggles my mind is that rms ~must~ have known about the fifth column
asciilifeform: how has he not spoken out (or eaten his pistol...) yet ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17892 @ 0.00039688 = 7.101 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40805 @ 0.00039626 = 16.1694 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12648 @ 0.00039532 = 5 BTC [-]
assbot: Artificial Intelligence Machine Gets Testy With Its Programmer - Digits - WSJ ... ( )
chetty: is it just me or does that machine sound a bit like mp?
asciilifeform: '...The exchange sheds further light on the latest work carried out by large technology firms in the field of artificial intelligence, a booming field...' << apparently today is still 1966, weizenbaum's 'eliza' is 'latest work'
asciilifeform: !up bitcoinfailed
asciilifeform loves the open-ended 'failed' used in the english language
asciilifeform: sentence doesn't need an object, why'd ya want that, aha
kakobrekla: Human: What do you like to talk about?
kakobrekla: Machine: Nothing.
kakobrekla: seems quite honest to me
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo in your gardening, have you ever used a 19th c.-style muscle-powered grass cutter? i did today, and noticed that it is actually less exhausting than petrol-powered variety on account of my not breathing CO from tailpipe
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52197 @ 0.00039377 = 20.5536 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00039826 = 8.005 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00039826 = 7.2882 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23800 @ 0.00039416 = 9.381 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 208002...
asciilifeform is coming to think that we will be needing a mechanism for out-of-band (hashes, pgp) comparison of blockchains
asciilifeform is not ~at all~ certain that he is actually pulling from mircea_popescu's box, rather than a preet's
ben_vulpes: how could one tell? ordering of blocks?
asciilifeform: tell what ?
asciilifeform: whether he and i have same ?
asciilifeform: by hashing and sending pgpgram...
ben_vulpes: there's no guarantee that you'll produce the same blockchain on disk, though.
asciilifeform: precisely
asciilifeform: hence why we need a mechanism to actually checksum the blocks and dump it to a man-readable form
ben_vulpes: i would actually be *surprised* if you did produce the same disk bytes via a network cslurping
asciilifeform: can reuse the 'checkpoint' code for this
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you know full well that it won't
asciilifeform: which is why i said 'we need mechanism...' rather than 'hey mircea_popescu, hash those db turds and send me back via pgp wontcha'
ben_vulpes: i surmise
ben_vulpes: the thing at this point lies spread apart on my vivisection table
ben_vulpes: i've not yet mapped its circulatory system, much less how it excretes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you wanna perform a heroid deed, find out how to nuke gconv
asciilifeform: *heroic
asciilifeform: so far, all i learned is that it can - supposedly - be disabled during glibc build config. but this is not what i want
ben_vulpes: i'm not actually entirely certain where the gconv stuff is coming in
asciilifeform: if i have to write an elf diddler to yank it out of the binary, i will
asciilifeform: but would rather not come to this
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is coming via glibc
asciilifeform: see the drepper link earlier today
asciilifeform: that fucker is responsible
asciilifeform: was quite open about it.
ben_vulpes: that, sir, is over my pay grade.
asciilifeform: i'm still hoping that i overlooked something, and that it can be disabled via civilized means
ben_vulpes: behavior tracker has my attention at the moment.
ben_vulpes: (or is that another "jam tomorrow"?)
asciilifeform: which behaviour
ben_vulpes: "peer ranker"
ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, there is no intelligence in it beyond the misbehave... crap
ben_vulpes: i speak of mircea_popescu's desired behavior.
asciilifeform: that will only make sense once the pipe itself is authenticable
asciilifeform: (gossip)
asciilifeform: right now, as i said, no one has any idea who he is talking to
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
asciilifeform: for all i know, i'm syncing from a stooge box planted only a few miles away at my isp
asciilifeform: and it is slow because philipinos have to crap out the diddled blocks by hand
ben_vulpes: and if thbox serves at a high bandwidth few bastards and blocks that all verify, why not prefer it over others?
asciilifeform: 'few bastards' is not a criterion while we're using the classical sync mechanism;
asciilifeform: e.g., mircea_popescu's box craps out as many bastards as anyone's
asciilifeform: on account of there being no intelligence whatsoever in the sync code
ben_vulpes: ah have ye tested that yet?
asciilifeform: i have the thing scrolling on own display
asciilifeform: have been watching it, on and off, since started
assbot: Sex Offenders Now Required To Have Transparent Rainbows On Their Profile Image - News Examiner - Examine Your World ... ( )
ben_vulpes: "blonde, brunette, redhead..."
ben_vulpes is still curious about the block-vomiting process, and how bastards make it in
asciilifeform: mats: l0l, a new 'the onion'
mats: pretty good.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 313 @ 0.00463062 = 1.4494 BTC [-] {10}
decimation: asciilifeform: I use plug-in electric lawnmower
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35700 @ 0.00039416 = 14.0715 BTC [-]
decimation: the cord is a little annoying but lack of co coming from exhaust is worthwhile
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and it still runs in 'bursts.' << this is a very strange behaviour. what's 193k, like 3-5% ?
mircea_popescu: 'BLM Special Agent" ? what the fuck ? everyone in the us got their power rangers now ?
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform has never been to 'burning man' thing and never really grasped the appeal << pretty much the ONLY remaining spot on the west coast to meet slovenly females that are undemanding.
mircea_popescu: your average adolescent male does not own a shirt. the female he'd be interested in dreams about waiting for "the right saudi prince".
mircea_popescu: imagine the tensions.
mircea_popescu: them silly kids will not really shoot for burning man, of course, but they'd be REALLY really sad in their corner if it went away.
mircea_popescu: "self reliance" = "we fuck in the dirt"
decimation: I wonder how long it will be until 'BLM special agents' start claiming sovereignty over their lands
mircea_popescu: in other news, i propose a petition to have the "Child Porn" utility removed from linux. why is not MauVe enough ?
mircea_popescu: only thing they do with CP is CI anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00039876 = 11.9628 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gets a confirmed kill drepper's the enemy.
mircea_popescu: " nobody used the code for real " ; "I personally don't care at all how big static binaries are."
mircea_popescu: it's like a religion.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16776 @ 0.00040003 = 6.7109 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "Nobody must use them except for very few exceptions and for those larger code size is ok."
decimation: well, as we have discussed here before, the whole idea of shared libraries is kind of a fucktarded version of 'global namespaces'
mircea_popescu: not ~really~.
mircea_popescu: and i base myself on the fact that they worked pretty well in practice until the new generation of "reformist" idiots got involved, and put 'locale' as a concept in c.
mircea_popescu: before that existed, python worked fine, and static builds were trhe default and so on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.0004011 = 10.1879 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers. << kinda why everyone is reacting with so much disbelief at the sudden "this is not acceptable". they had been doing it forever, gavin as a marginally retarded peripheral agent of the idiocy got totally blindsided by an armed insurection. that we'd pursue it is i suppose plainly unthinkable, the sort of thing the rmcgraths of th
mircea_popescu: e world were dreaming about in their cells twenty years ago, like my grandfather looking at the sky waiting for "the americans" to show up.
mircea_popescu: this is also why poettering et all so plainly expected it to work etc/
mircea_popescu: it all makes perfect sense, looking at it now. they look like patently insane if considered on the merits, but if considered culturally they are simply "i just work here" and "this is how the world works". about as insane as an ant.
mircea_popescu: and as decimation points out, yes we've agreed an ant's insane.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the thing that boggles my mind is that rms ~must~ have known about the fifth column << you would have expected to read about it on his trilema, yes ? of what is this expectation built, if not out of the existence of trilema, and of the existence of mpoe-pr at my orders, and of the culture this engendered ? rms does not read trilema ; in his ignorance, trilema does not exist and same thing can not be rep
mircea_popescu: roduced for "reasons". and so he is in the unenviable position of one whom we do not doubt that behaves as one that is guilty - ie, must have known, said nothing ever.
mircea_popescu: <chetty> is it just me or does that machine sound a bit like mp? << o.O
mircea_popescu: "The exchange sheds further light on the latest work" << yeah. it sheds the following light : "work" by these wankers consists these days of outputting random strings from pre-made texts and trying to do a cute seleciton thereof.
mircea_popescu: it's so wrong it's not even cargo cult.
asciilifeform: thing is still running in (short) bursts, as before.
asciilifeform: plenty of outright disconnects, too
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:04:02; asciilifeform: can reuse the 'checkpoint' code for this
asciilifeform: 209209.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's been in my head for a while now.
mircea_popescu: can this actually work for 1.1 ie next version ?
mircea_popescu: have a -checkpoint=111 -checkpointe=113 which takes blocks 111 to 113 hashes them dumps hash.
asciilifeform: really shouldn't be hard. when commanded, will piss out ascii text with block # <<>> hash
mircea_popescu: to think that it's not already in there for crying out loud.
mircea_popescu: how have i lived before ?
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:04; ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
asciilifeform: other thing, that will have to be added, imho, asap, is a non-retarded version of 'connect'
mircea_popescu: << as you clearly notice, the pipe is authenticable does not equal gosspid : we can have out of band authenticifaction as per the above mechanism.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:46; asciilifeform: that will only make sense once the pipe itself is authenticable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also 1.1 ideally yes.
asciilifeform: where 1) can -connect to *multiple* boxes 2) does not as result wall off from inbound connections
asciilifeform: say i wanna cycle between mircea_popescu's 3 boxen
mircea_popescu: 1 before 2, yes.
mircea_popescu: the entire idea of what we are building here is NODE HIERARCHY.
asciilifeform: or say i wanna permit inbounds from lusers but never getblocks() from them
mircea_popescu: which is to say, i wish my node to connect only to people on THIS list, and let anyone connect to it.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about connecting something to a running bitcoind, siphoning off blocks as they are 'validated'?
decimation: re-index into sane database
mircea_popescu: then the ability of the wankers to poison the chain becomes nil : sure, whatever nodes listen to them listen to them. the infrastructure does not.
asciilifeform: decimation: that's plain old -connect
asciilifeform: decimation: or if you meant some oddball 'embrace & extend' of the sync protocol - yeah, we'll probably get there eventually
decimation: yeah I guess that's kinda what I mean
mircea_popescu: << this would be so fucking great if it's the case.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:11:44; asciilifeform: and it is slow because philipinos have to crap out the diddled blocks by hand
mircea_popescu: those poor schmucks imagine.
decimation: implant probes into bitcoind to suck out its blocks
mircea_popescu: they had to murder the connection to buy themselves another 16 hours, because OMFG THEY'RE DOING WHAT ?!?!? NOW ?!?!
mircea_popescu: and now have to work it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if enemy action indeed rather than the net being a ruinous ball of yarn - they were probably fuzzing for various protocol boojums
asciilifeform: of course, plain old reroute for snorting with derelict infrastructure would have similar 'molasses' effect..
asciilifeform: ^ the most likely picture
mircea_popescu: << i use the same thing. co2 doesn't bother me much, however, i will go into the ss before i put up with that sort of wrist vibration.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:31:21; decimation: asciilifeform: I use plug-in electric lawnmower
mircea_popescu: i intend to remain able to type my entire lifespan.
decimation: well, the other reason I use electric: one less engine to maintain
asciilifeform: what kind of grass mircea_popescu cuts in his flat, lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in timisoara i had a garden recall ?
mircea_popescu: well, that.
decimation: no gas to store, no oil to change, etc
mircea_popescu: and it was about 1/4 ton of grass each cutting.
mircea_popescu: which means about 20 in a year, which the neighbours helpfully PUT OUTSIDE BY THEIR DUMPSTERS.
mircea_popescu: then went to supermarket and bought feed for the poor yard.
mircea_popescu: then they will wish to know why isis comes and beheads them
mircea_popescu: and it will be an unexpolainable hatred, i'm sure.
decimation: mircea_popescu: generally here the received wisdom is that you want to leave grass clippings on the lawn
asciilifeform bbl, playing with pet
decimation: rots, recycles nutrients
mircea_popescu: decimation what i did was pile it all in a corner.
mircea_popescu: also rots. also provides nutrients. can be split up over the yard beforer first snow.
decimation: yeah, that works too
mircea_popescu: also attracts birds.
decimation: you can add kitchen scraps and wood clippings, make good compost
mircea_popescu: ideally you start it with a good offering of herbivore droppings.
decimation: that's a good idea
mircea_popescu: and i did add the wood clippings, ie, me cutting off an apple and a pear tree into shape over a coupla years, after having been neglected for 5ish
decimation: I've also heard of going to the nearest swamp and grabbing the muck
mircea_popescu: not very useful, for your thing will not be either that wet or that basic. very acidic
mircea_popescu: horsesht the only way to go.
decimation: yeah that's a good idea
decimation: ^ note that this is how people made fertiziler since the dawn of time
mircea_popescu: just don't put anything coniferous / wallnut in there.
mircea_popescu: like the ornamental tree stuffs.
mircea_popescu: "You don't have to boot frmo the CDROM. And if you need a router you have a network and therefore can connect to another machine."
mircea_popescu: Date: 19 Aug 1999 15:38:56 -0700
mircea_popescu: imo nsa of 1999 was much better organised than the crap of today.
mircea_popescu: For instance: #include <stdio.h> int main(int argc, char **argv) { printf ("Hello World\n"); } compiles to 985,018 bytes. This is almost all libc overhead.
mircea_popescu: what is it by now ? 4mb ?
decimation: it's only 8.3k on mac osx
mircea_popescu: that's pretty good.
decimation: 6.4kbyte on redhat 6
decimation: that's shared linking though
mircea_popescu: nonono, static
decimation: heh 743kbyte on redhat
mircea_popescu: incredible that this "free world" thing has waited patiently, and incredibly quietly, for 25 years for us to show up. i imagine it will be very hurt in its hopes and aspirations when i spit in its mouth.
mircea_popescu: because truly, it was waiting for salvation! resisting through culture!
mircea_popescu: they really did mean to assassinate hitler!
mircea_popescu: just biding their time, waiting for a good opportunity, honest! wanted to do maximum damage, and as we all know, ~MAXIMUM~ damage is always in the future.
mircea_popescu: what's needed is a fucking ISCS. the intellectual state of computer science.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37819 @ 0.00040263 = 15.2271 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110900 @ 0.00039366 = 43.6569 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23043 @ 0.0003933 = 9.0628 BTC [-]
punkman: ...and banks closed for a week, maybe.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41350 @ 0.0003933 = 16.263 BTC [-]
punkman: also first jackpot yesterday, burglars got away with some guy's safe containing 700k in cash/jewelry
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00040537 = 14.8568 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: 214873.
asciilifeform: << still need it, to, e.g., keep lusers from taking shits into the mempool
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 19:13:22; mircea_popescu: << as you clearly notice, the pipe is authenticable does not equal gosspid : we can have out of band authenticifaction as per the above mechanism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31619 @ 0.000407 = 12.8689 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27793 @ 0.00040714 = 11.3156 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32407 @ 0.0004092 = 13.2609 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.0004092 = 16.3475 BTC [+]
chetty: asciilifeform, if my node only connects to your node mempool is safe right
asciilifeform: whose ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.0004048 = 5.2422 BTC [-] {2}
chetty: mine
asciilifeform: depends on who got to crap in mine, doesnit.
chetty: yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10820 @ 0.00039959 = 4.3236 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> << another worthy direction yes. << not jam tomorrow, then?
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:04; ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: Misbehaving is p lulzy
ben_vulpes: great enumeration of badness
cazalla: <<< electric mower and whipper snipper seems like a recipe for trouble
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:31:21; decimation: asciilifeform: I use plug-in electric lawnmower
mats: i dun even have a lawn
mats: and i am glad
cazalla: i wish i could mow the lawn every day
mats: what are we talking about now
ben_vulpes: caz has a shaving fetish, gets razor burn, tries not to cry, cries a lot
mats: pretty tame compared to mp's interests
cazalla: a shaving fetish.. that's a first.. gotta google this one
cazalla: who would've guessed..
ben_vulpes: rule 48.
cazalla: seriously though, i enjoy mowing the lawn, that fresh cut look, the smell, the goodies for my compost
mats: i dunno what i expected when i clicked that
mats: insta regret
cazalla: mats, just don't drop dead in front of PC with that page open eh
mats: "There are still too many people out there who think (or even insist) that static linking has benefits. This has never been the case and never will be the case." this guy...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00039431 = 3.9825 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: a yard sale was selling a mac performa for five bucks... so now I own one of those
trinque shrugs
trinque: maybe fun for old mac games
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30388 @ 0.00040896 = 12.4275 BTC [+]
trinque: hypercard "player" ?
trinque: wtf is this shit
assbot: Loper OS » How to Run HyperCard Under Emulation ... ( )
asciilifeform: get the real one
assbot: Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( )
trinque: sweet, ty
trinque: asciilifeform: it does seem as per your write-up, that there was a far more inventive apple once upon a time, which jobs put to a stop in favor of iOS appification
asciilifeform: trinque: hypercard was written by 1 guy
asciilifeform: (initially)
asciilifeform: so not 'more inventive apple'
asciilifeform: just less actively retarded
trinque: would this one take that microexplorer card?
trinque: not that I've been able to find one anywhere online
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4150 @ 0.00039412 = 1.6356 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: microexplorer ?
trinque: lisp machine board for the mac of some sort
asciilifeform: you may be thinking of symbolics's 'macivory'
asciilifeform: you can get these from dave schmidt, virginia, usa
trinque: that's another I think
asciilifeform: 'explorer' was the crappy texas instruments lispm
asciilifeform: (they were among the original mit licensees, yes)
assbot: Lemonodor: TI microExplorer ... ( )
trinque: ah k
asciilifeform: it is barely a step above the original 'cadr' machine
asciilifeform: 'macivory' was on the other hand pretty much as good as it got
trinque: only purpose of this archaelogical dig is my own historical education
asciilifeform: << if you want one, talk to this fella
asciilifeform: it'll be somewhere south of 2k usd
asciilifeform: (last i checked. which was some years ago.)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've used a couple. I like the strong lines they put in the grass, but they cut so short
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53347 @ 0.00040923 = 21.8312 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: ah turns out it had an original hypercard already on there from 1996
trinque: and flying toasters!
trinque: what else does a guy need
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16403 @ 0.00040763 = 6.6864 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: trinque: does it have 'naughty dog' as well?
trinque: ben_vulpes: nah this version of after dark only has 5 screen savers
trinque: no naughty dog, no lawn mower man
ben_vulpes: disappointing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8157 @ 0.00039844 = 3.2501 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00041034 = 5.7858 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: How To Escape The Age Of Mass Delusion ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4950 @ 0.0004107 = 2.033 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Circle City Con 2015 - Analyzing The Entropy Of Document Hidden Code ... ( )
BingoBoingo building stator on HUGEfreetop. Just set freetop up with Linux Mint 17.1 because lazy
asciilifeform prepares to release mighty cool thing
mats: BingoBoingo: do ya have a pogo yet?
BingoBoingo: mats: Not yet. I prolly ought to get on that soon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40054 @ 0.00040187 = 16.0965 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 100000 @ 0.00003331 = 3.331 BTC [-] {13}
mats: did anyone ever buy a pallet of em or whatever the plan was?
BingoBoingo: Someone may have?
mats: i'd be happy to share a few bits to encourage folks to get one
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:
asciilifeform: '(EXPERIMENTAL) Raw Block Extractor'
mats: would love to read the code and assist in other ways but am occupied atm
assbot: mubix | NetSec TLDR Podcast ... ( )
mats: r/netsec roundup podcast
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu asked for this (after mircea_popescu asked, )
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 19:09:48; mircea_popescu: << this is actually a very beautiful idea.
asciilifeform: here it is.
asciilifeform: now who has the balls to write 'eatblock' !
asciilifeform: after that, one could sync over 'netcat'
asciilifeform: (if suicidally brave)
asciilifeform: at line speed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00039403 = 17.1009 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: and iirc the BuildMerkleTree() is not necessary
ben_vulpes: yaay!
ben_vulpes: dude i've prayed for a thing like this for some time
asciilifeform confirmed that merkletree is not needed
asciilifeform: for this
ben_vulpes: what's with the odd indentation on 35/6?
asciilifeform: no idea
asciilifeform: all looks same on my emacs
ben_vulpes: i see a tab on 36
ben_vulpes: not that it matters i don't imagine
asciilifeform: which one's that
ben_vulpes: line number of patch
ben_vulpes: let's fight about whitespace rules
trinque: this whole concept of "website" is fucking stupid
trinque: I want to simply publish the fact "I want to buy a macivory" and have anyone selling one be able to find that out
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:
asciilifeform: '(CORRECTED) (EXPERIMENTAL) Raw Block Extractor'
ben_vulpes: trinque: wotclassifieds!
ben_vulpes: gribble did this.
trinque: ben_vulpes: had a vague thought re: putting buys/sells in the blockchain somehow
trinque: yus
ben_vulpes: just say no.
trinque: I can put whatever I like in the blockchain
ben_vulpes: pissing in mother crypto.
ben_vulpes: anyways asciilifeform if you care there are still misalignments
trinque goes off to encode dickbutt.jpg as transaction outputs
ben_vulpes: dickbutt.ascii hyuuuu
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: fix it yourself. this can be part of you signing the thing 'i read it...'
ben_vulpes: as i said: 'if you care'
asciilifeform: << have you tried buying from the fella who is living in a warehouse full of'em ?
assbot: Logged on 29-06-2015 01:09:31; trinque: I want to simply publish the fact "I want to buy a macivory" and have anyone selling one be able to find that out
asciilifeform: ^ there he is!
trinque: asciilifeform: I'll e-mail him, but read chatter from the last few years about not getting replies from the guy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu we have blockshitter
trinque: 2k's outside the historic artifact collection budget for now
trinque: saw somebody snagged one for about 600
trinque: maybe five years ago
asciilifeform: trinque: macivory ?
trinque: believe it was, yeah
trinque: somebody sold one on ebay
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sorry ?
asciilifeform: oh and it only works in certain macs, with certain videoboards
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see log. new patch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does the thing we spoke of
asciilifeform: craps out block x on demand
trinque: asciilifeform: since the performa in question was five bucks, I wont be too sad if it ends up in the garbage
asciilifeform: trinque: dks used to supply the mac and video board to go with it, when you bought from him
trinque: seems the other route is finding an alpha machine
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm sitting on a stack of those
asciilifeform: trinque: you can have one for the cost of postage
trinque: oh? I'd be interested in that.
asciilifeform: (pgpgram if interested)
asciilifeform: would need to dust it off, see if still runs
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell agorecki how's the learning coming along ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: $ sha512sum 217040.bin
asciilifeform: 580c13b6492b526d2564398e5f28d17aa4d2e97c3321aa47908bf02da12237425cb0c17e6fdfbab1f347d5c4e1851c96b1e0ee36c088b18ae4ef3ed6e5bd1099
asciilifeform: ^ example, freshly pulled from mircea_popescu's box
asciilifeform: forgot the
asciilifeform: ./bitcoind dumpblock 217040 217040.bin
asciilifeform: anyway, pretty obvious how to use.
asciilifeform: why this was not included from day 1, who can say.
ben_vulpes: it'd make introspection easy!
asciilifeform waits to learn what cthonian horrors will be uncovered by folks using this item
asciilifeform: in principle, when we get 'eatblock' it will be possible to pass around a 'naked' blockchain with upper bound of its mass being $blockheight MB
asciilifeform: (less, with compression)
asciilifeform: i'm not thrilled with the idea of folks doing this as daily practice
asciilifeform: because it sorta defeats the whole point of a p2p gizmo
asciilifeform: but there is a time and place for it
trinque: asciilifeform: sent
asciilifeform: trinque: will answer when i wake up
trinque: k, no rush
trinque: and I appreciate it
trinque: if it doesn't work or ya decide you want the box yourself, no worries
asciilifeform: i already have some
asciilifeform: trinque: btw, it is my understanding that most of the opengenera enthusiasts are using the 'snap4' unofficial warez x86-64 port now
asciilifeform: trinque: i'd suggest trying that one on for size before resorting to archaeological dig
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25597 @ 0.00041111 = 10.5232 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: maybe that's one I tried a while back in kvm
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, yes, tomorrow. but can't hurt thinking about.
BingoBoingo: strator bitcoind built and running up to block 45000
ben_vulpes: scratches through shitpile for 'jam today' tickets
ben_vulpes: in other news
ben_vulpes: libboost-all-dev << what is this horror
ben_vulpes: how would i see what this thing contains
assbot: 100 (25+25+40+10) BTC Bounty: Blkindex.dat Rebuild Function & others ... ( )
decimation: "It?s as though Americans are buying into a fast-talking sales pitch without being allowed to read the print, whether it?s large print or small."
mircea_popescu: !up agorecki
gabriel_laddel: Lord Vulpes's Academy for Gifted Youngsters?
gabriel_laddel: Vulpes Academy?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that's the kind of patch I was implying
assbot: Logged on 29-06-2015 00:50:35; mats: i'd be happy to share a few bits to encourage folks to get one
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: 'tain't about the youngsters except insofar as their parents are in the wot
ben_vulpes: anyways, i'm off to grill chicken and romp dog with other junior members of the clan
mircea_popescu: << no need to be suicidally brave. what it does is, "people's checkpoints". as in, anyone may run a bitcoin with a chain starting with an arbitrary block.
assbot: Logged on 29-06-2015 00:54:21; asciilifeform: (if suicidally brave)
mircea_popescu: sort of, everyone's a checkpoint manager.
mircea_popescu: or, "i don't give a shit about txn prior to X"
ben_vulpes: (^ more or less kills headers-first abomination)
mircea_popescu: incredible the amount of innovation simply sprouting forth from the ground once someone says "nobody asked you anything" @ the usual barnacles.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: so there will be no making a (slight) profit educating other's youngsters?
mircea_popescu: the profit is to be made in flesh.
mircea_popescu contemplates a future where the only tuition is prostitution.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: the profit is in amortized costs of education over wot
ben_vulpes: anyways, out for real now.
gabriel_laddel: I'd sort of imagined the camus as a set of WoT-enabled buildings.
gabriel_laddel: In maybe Beijing, Tel Aviv, Seoul
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel think about it. why would you want to spend time with an idiot if you're not fucking her. and what else is an idiot if not one in dire need of some education.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: there are not many real people in my locale that I get to play with :/
mircea_popescu: virtual educations are like virtual machines.
mircea_popescu: cheap, dispensable solutions you can't rely on.
gabriel_laddel: also, I would be very much like to have some Chinese & Korean kids educated by WoT members
gabriel_laddel: My impression of Vulpes Academy was that it would have a physical manifestation.
gabriel_laddel: Sort of like a club for kids whose parents are on the up and up
gabriel_laddel: with a library
gabriel_laddel: and a lab
gabriel_laddel: and visiting instructors
mircea_popescu: how about you educate your children pre-puberty, and whoever they feel like educates them post ?
mats: lol what
mircea_popescu: there is really no substance to the institution of marriage outside of this.
mats: 22:21:54 <+gabriel_laddel> also, I would be very much like to have some Chinese & Korean kids educated by WoT members << you adopting asians now?
gabriel_laddel: mats: someone has to bribe fab operators.
mats: get back to me in a few years, huh
gabriel_laddel: mats: lol, I need to be adopted, not the other way around.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: It seems to me that the academy should educate kids of ages 15 and older, so you have something to work with.
mircea_popescu: a) you can't educate "a class". individuals only ; b) you can't educate people you don't, most intimately, know ; c) there's no education outside of the educated's choice.
gabriel_laddel: "we assume you can read, write and do simple mathematics - now build some rockets and jungle IC on the cheap"
mircea_popescu: so... let them pick sex partners. that's the only education they either can have or need.
asciilifeform: anybody build that thing ?
decimation: I was gonna, but gave up trying to get the pile of dependent patches
asciilifeform: decimation: you can use my tree from last night
asciilifeform: it's in the tarball
decimation: oh I thought that was just the binary
decimation: I'll start it
asciilifeform: for testing only
asciilifeform: naturally
assbot: How To Escape The Age Of Mass Delusion ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "The fuel, as usual, is the emotional blackmail of people of goodwill, the uses of mass mobilization to exploit that goodwill, then, finally, to render all such goodwill meaningless."
asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody who wants can now easily serve http://yourthing/blocks/x
mircea_popescu: yes. empty "goodwill" is closer to a crime than to a good thing.
cazalla: ermagawd 10 day count down to something.. bg3
assbot: Baldur's Gate ... ( )
asciilifeform: << the non-gay mathematicians et al will have problems with this algo
assbot: Logged on 29-06-2015 02:28:44; mircea_popescu: so... let them pick sex partners. that's the only education they either can have or need.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform most mathematicians hate teaching anyway
asciilifeform: somebody's gotta teach the damn stuff
mircea_popescu: because why ?
asciilifeform: ditto engineering, programming, etc
mircea_popescu: if nobody had taught poettering how to write, the loss ?
asciilifeform: the better schools use a kind of 'riker's island' approach anyway
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel your protest is not unlike protesting everything on earth gotta spin around the sun.
mircea_popescu: society is built on fucking.
asciilifeform: 'listen maggots, in six weeks come back with a basic unix'
gabriel_laddel: I'm not protesting, just noting that perhaps not everyone is *quite* as sexually driven as yourself .
mircea_popescu: why do you think i myself have anything to do with it ?
mircea_popescu: it is with great sorrow i say the above, no sort of anticipation.
gabriel_laddel: Hrm. Perhaps I should have said "not everyone sees everything through the lense of sexual attraction constantly" - myself being a prime example.
mircea_popescu: that'd be a problem of poor sight.
gabriel_laddel: And the probably also the straight(?) mathematican I had a conversation with last weekend.
mircea_popescu: "I think the reason there is so little “comedy” that’s funny today is the genre itself has been hijacked by the humorless PC crowd." <<-->>
assbot: "Parody" is not there for you cancerous fags to try and hide your cancer behind it. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel the notion that one can educate outside of a sexual context is not unlike the notion that one can write code without reading any.
mircea_popescu: you know... for kids!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> anybody build that thing ? << i did try to build your "stator" tarball from lastnight. i provisioned a new deb6 with glibc/gcc-4.5.4, had some issues, never was able to build whole orchestra. I think its perhaps system related.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one can educate in a brutalizing/disciplinarian context
gabriel_laddel: I've *never* slept with anyone I've learned from.
asciilifeform: (as in army)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform brutality is purely sexual.
asciilifeform: what was the sexual element in 'come back with operating system in 6 weeks or go flip burgers' ?
mod6: I have to pull up from this and work on the SoBA now. Otherwise would have normally given you all kinds of dpastes/asked for help. But instead, I'm just going to look back into this after the start of the month. I hope that's alright.
asciilifeform: mod6: no hurry
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel's committing this error where he's proposing that since he's not fucking the girl, he's not in love with her ; asciilifeform is committing this error where since there was a building in the vicinity of the learning, the building is now a school.
mircea_popescu: these are unsubstantial, purely nominalist problems
asciilifeform can sorta see where mircea_popescu is going
mod6: Ok, I'll for sure revisit this after the doc is done. I think this one is gonna be lengthy, just wanna make sure I get that done.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00041039 = 6.279 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Along these lines, Meerloo offers a prescription: “We must learn to treat the demagogue and aspirant dictator in our midst just as we should treat our external enemies in a cold war – with the weapon of ridicule. The demagogue himself is almost incapable of humor of any sort, and if we treat him with humor, he will begin to collapse. Humor is, after all, related to a sense of perspective. If we can see how things s
mircea_popescu: hould be, we can see how askew they can get, and we can recognize distortion when we are confronted with it.” << for the record, this is rank nonsense. it only seems to work because americans are the worst of all german stocks - incredibly stolid, unhumorous fellows.
mircea_popescu: societies exhibiting an incredibly exacerbated "making fun" cancer have been recorded. they still have the same problems with demagogues and peoples' general emotional insanity. humor is no panacea.
mircea_popescu: that said, it'd be incredible cultural progress for the us if it actually was a little funnier.
mircea_popescu: the only stable solution is in any case willing submitting to chosen people. and there should be no room for "state" anywhere once that's done.
asciilifeform just heard, at close range - out of window - a bird devoured by cat. nature's music.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the bad news is that it looks like node will be off for something like 24 hours.
mircea_popescu: but hopefully this fixes the nonsense.
asciilifeform: no spares yet ?
asciilifeform: and did mircea_popescu ever learn of a cause for the nonsense in question ?
mircea_popescu: (note that at the current rate, it'd have been a lifetime)
mircea_popescu: well not yet, no.
asciilifeform: i'd have tried tunneling 8333 from some very distant place
asciilifeform: and connecting through that
mircea_popescu: any improvement ?
asciilifeform: well, let et al chew on a crypted turdstream
BingoBoingo: strator built now passed block 123455
mircea_popescu: o hey wd bb!
asciilifeform: stator?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: where did you build it ?
BingoBoingo: Built on the Phreetop running linux Mint 17.1 (because lazy)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tried the block dumper patch yet ?
asciilifeform: applies cleanly to same tree
BingoBoingo: Not yet. Build... took some time... will try to get further in sync first
asciilifeform: i sorta want to start doing this thing where we for blocks 0 ... n, sha512sum block_n | gpg ...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15057 @ 0.00041084 = 6.186 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: certainly can go into deedbot. which will go into the blockchain. which... inception
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: (afaik this would be the first example of a closed loop, which is to say a cyuclicity i nthe graph of modification dependencies
asciilifeform blows stack
mircea_popescu: or at any rate the first publicly known one.)
mircea_popescu: imagine the inconvenience of trying to diddle history with this arrangement.
mircea_popescu: truely needs qc.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttstamp
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 250.16, Best ask: 250.28, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 250.15, 24 hour volume: 5557.75187228, 24 hour low: 247.04, 24 hour high: 251.24, 24 hour vwap: 249.205171345
mod6: BingoBoingo: did you build the whole thing with the script? or did you just build bitcoind? or are you running the static binary provided?
BingoBoingo: mod6: Built the whole thing. Hung up once because I was using .gz boost archive instead of .bz2
BingoBoingo: Once that was fixed everything built
decimation: asciilifeform: stator built for me
decimation: on rhel6
mod6: yeah, i hit that small problem too... i had other issues further down the line. thanks, i must just have an environment issue.
mod6: i'll have to circle back around to this later.
decimation: bitched about mktemp "(.text+0x774d): warning: the use of `mktemp' is dangerous, better use `mkstemp'"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00040299 = 12.6539 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: daemon is at 136 MB of RAM usage
asciilifeform: congrats BingoBoingo decimation
BingoBoingo: Only pheature I miss from 0.7 series is "getpeerinfo" command
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: shouldn't be hard to re-create it
BingoBoingo: Yeah, and it isn't an urgent thing
asciilifeform is dumping and hashing all of the blocks he sucked from mircea_popescu's box earlier
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00040299 = 8.8053 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: will sign the result when it has run to the end (likely in the morning)
assbot: dpaste: 0CXHK64 ... ( )
asciilifeform: a bit of a hasty job, forgot the 'dest' thing
asciilifeform: but works
decimation: asciilifeform: of course, next step: force feed bitcoind with array of blocks
asciilifeform: !s eatblock
assbot: 0 results for 'eatblock' :
asciilifeform: did mention this.
decimation: was it in the email
asciilifeform: nah, here
assbot: Logged on 29-06-2015 00:53:18; asciilifeform: now who has the balls to write 'eatblock' !
asciilifeform: wtf does #b-a search not behave exactly like grep ?
asciilifeform: i still can't see any reason
asciilifeform: the 'words' thing is asinine
mircea_popescu: poor mod6 lol/ nothing comes easy to the bsd crowd
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