spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799116 <-- no "pre-existing $thing" was contemplated at any point. lemme exemplify: a. you wanna implement bitcoin-node-os and determine that it requires crypto primitives, bitcoin db/fs, text editor for config files and so on up to a set of components C and *nothing else*; b. you audit the system at [a] and find out that idem, all components present in the systems are in C, and if not, then out the
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 21:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799018 << the notion that there's such a thing or could be such a thing as "resonable expectation" of pre-existing userland on the basis of os is not unlike young women expecting fucking them means they get to reorganize your bathroom.
spyked: window with the box or whatever. that C is the set through which you intentionally make your OS a non-general-purpose item.
spyked: then moving from this approach you can systematically eliminate e.g. "pdf library" or e.g. "udev" or e.g. "protected mode" or everything else that is not *needed* for the system, not just userland (if there should be anything such as "a userland" at all in there)
spyked: i.e. whitelisting instead of the current blacklist-based approach used in e.g. portage, as seen in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-15#1799700 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796255 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793781 and many others in the logs
a111: Logged on 2018-04-15 22:28 esthlos: yes, it's the latest gentoo nonsense.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 15:29 asciilifeform: speaking of which, apparently AS OF TODAY gentoo portage latest ver DEMANDS gpg2.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 23:57 asciilifeform: aaaand apparently emacs 25.3.r4 pulls in... gnutls
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799145 <-- I agree. there are e.g. "pull" games sponsored through kickstarter that made decent products, ( http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/060-thimbleweed-park.html workedforme), and I'm sure part of academic grant proposals are srs bsns. and this might even work for wireguard, seeing as how it has the great advantage of being actual existing item, used by people.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 21:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799029 << anyway, i wouldn't simplify it quite to that point. obviously there's a pull and there's a push way to make money, and if i propose to some guy, "do x, get y" it's my push not his pull, and obviously if he wants to pull instead of waiting to b pushed aroundhe gotta do pull-y sorta things. but anyways.
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06e-sieranevada-cuibul-de-viespi.html << The Tar Pit - Two on the parastas: Sieranevada and Cuibul de viespi
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell ascii_lander http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rSTjv/?raw=true
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
ascii_lander: BingoBoingo: i've been awake for a while
lobbesbot: ascii_lander: Sent 1 day, 1 hour, and 10 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/49SyH/?raw=true
lobbesbot: ascii_lander: Sent 46 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rSTjv/?raw=true
ascii_lander: BingoBoingo: sitting here in hotel currently, fiddling with kvm
BingoBoingo: [dark African Thumbs-up]
danielpbarron: lol BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: [medium brown, but dot-injun as opposed to African surgeon]
danielpbarron: got a message from my former employer that they "Have a service" and were notified of my blog post. hows that for seo? i'm not even trying to game the search
mircea_popescu: good morning republicans!
a111: Logged on 2018-04-15 15:44 danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-15#1799329 << he's available now for a few hours; otherwise, another day
ascii_lander: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: incidentally trinque : i figure http://trilema.com/2018/the-rivers-of-blood-article-or-the-lordship-list-fifth-year/ is ready for application.
mircea_popescu: my my check out my kickass header today!
mircea_popescu: hola ascii_lander . how's miniargentina ?
ascii_lander: it's riotously fun.
mircea_popescu: you're so funny, you know, spend a whole year all dour and then go out for like a week and be all "squeeee"
mircea_popescu: fucking move already, it's allowed.
ascii_lander: and i'm beginning to suspect that they moved the real argentina here
ascii_lander: and the ~other~ one is its ukraine, not vice-versa
mircea_popescu: well, it's sealed, but the seals are made in tiera de lfuego. leak lots.
mircea_popescu: like the submarine's.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-15 18:49 mod6: jesus christ, 1 foot of snow in the last 24 hours, and it isn't even stopping.
mod6: it was /bad/, got like 15" total.
ascii_lander: even such fabled items as BingoBoingo's hostel, are not quite what i expected. there's moar sunlight, walkable space, etc there, than in my house!
ascii_lander: plus gurls apparently
ascii_lander: ( what i expected, of course, was flearidden dank cellar of some 19th c imagination )
a111: Logged on 2018-04-15 22:25 phf: esthlos: mysqli appears to be a force pushed buggy replacement for original php mysql driver (the usual "deprecated!!1" tricks, while missing features and introducing creative bugs)
mircea_popescu: mod6, wow. did you have to shovel all that ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, aha. i r unsurprist.
ascii_lander: also interestingly , BB looked much healthier than in his early pic, he has physique of cosmonaut now, from living here
mod6: mircea_popescu: no, thankfully. I'd probably have died. I have a mean-snowblower.
mod6: iirc posted a pic once upon a time even.
mod6: Was that heavy-wet snow, very difficult to manage without blower/plow.
mircea_popescu: phf, there's been this ancient grudge between "mysql people" and "php people" in the following sense : in the 90s, the "foss community" consisted of a sad indeology-lite republic that still had enough people to get shit done. they needed an egine for their "revolution" which was to be centered around "the web", a shoddy, ill conceived can of mostly "make it easy for people to participate AND IT WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD [of pe
mircea_popescu: ople who need it to be easy to participate]".
ascii_lander is prolly the least in-shape d00d in this whole city atm
mod6: Typically we don't get blizzards in april.
mircea_popescu: but then their successors, two groups of dweebs with sparse goatees, really REALLY don't believe they're just gunk on ancients' unremarkable cogs in a larger system.
mircea_popescu: as there's not enough room in reality for both their larpings, they eventually split, there's a useless "new" php without mysql and a similarily useless "new" mysql withouyt php now. that neitjher were ANYTHING other than "one piece of LAMP, which exists STRICTLY because tmsr v 0.1 says it does" entirely wooshes over all their herads.
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, so get crackin'!1
ascii_lander: about to move 100kg of crate, heh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-15#1799694 << im not gonna read that, not just because github is on the dark web, but also because jesus christ the livejournal. if anyone wants to summarize...
a111: Logged on 2018-04-15 20:50 ben_vulpes: hardfork hijinks https://github.com/5chdn/EIPs/blob/a5-eip-999/EIPS/eip-999.md
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i read it, it was a snoar, ethertards doing their 'unhappen this eggog, unlose some shitcoin' thing again.
mircea_popescu: such a credible effort, that shitpile. imo ethereum is very useful in the following sense : it shows EXACTLY what bitcoin'd have been like if it occured to the ustards.
mircea_popescu: sorta like a taj mahal made out of pet bottles in the approximate shape of clinton's nose.
mircea_popescu: "so in which sense is it a taj mahal then ?" "they say so. that gotta count for something, beyond any consideration of form or substance" "notrly" "TERRORIST!"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799708 << it wasn;t bad. i hope he's treating you to the expensive stuff.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 01:40 BingoBoingo: So, I don't want to spoil alf adventures in Uruguay, but... He loves the cheese here
mod6: In other tales from the TRB: I spent a solid chunk of time this weekend trying to backport all of the rpc rawtx functions from upstream prb. Just to see if it was workable, and an educational endevour. This is not going to be a thing. They change tons of baseclasses and introduce a variety of new ones. Going forward, I think these will just be reimplmented in a trb-fashion.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799719 <<< ahahahaha. what is this, like the bzzzzzt--rppppptkkkchhh of 2018 ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 03:55 hanbot: module
ascii_lander: errything courtesy of ascii_lander's bag o' orcbux , while i'm here, aha
mircea_popescu: mod6, a reimplementation was always the idea, yeh.
mod6: Of course, we have other tasks such as re-doing wallet, how we dump all keys from wallet, and others. Just thought I'd venture in and see what was what.
ascii_lander: mod6: i tried to do this at one point, ended up burning it all in disgust, and wrote shiva ( which then i sadly abandoned for reasons amply discussed in log )
mircea_popescu: mod6, i could have saved you the time, i guess, but then again IF you publish a detailed discussion then we have that.
mod6: Just sayin', wasn't waste of time for me to do it, just thought I'd report my findings.
mircea_popescu: understand the important point here : such marches in the desert are ONLY useful if well documented.
mircea_popescu: if you just keep the results in your skull, it's better to not go.
ascii_lander: mod6: it really doesn't hurt to 'piss on the electric fence yourself' and see what i meant.
ascii_lander: so not wasted time.
ascii_lander: but mircea_popescu is entirely right, gotta document
mod6: fair enough.
mircea_popescu: and more generally : there's two kinds of sallies a gentleman may engage in. the one is where he comes back with a boatload of gold/tomatoes/whatever. the other is where he comes bacl with a well written tale of his travels.
mircea_popescu: the one where he has a lot of fun / sees a lot of things / is all impressed / tastes all the tomatoes IS NOT useful.
mircea_popescu: so, if your desert march results in a jewel of code, a la ffa, sure. if your desert march results in ample "lulz" as we call them, ie, intricate, unforgiving documentation of orcs' idiocy, sure.
mircea_popescu: but those are the two and the only two ways to bring back loot for your trouble.
ascii_lander was just nao having a quite mircea_popescuine 'as above, so below' thought : in usa, hotel maids are invariably bags, in ~every~ orcistan -- pretty gurlz
ascii_lander: and the reason, i suspect, is that in usa the young gurlz are trying to 'become clitler'
ascii_lander: and wouldn't be caught dead changing beds in hotel
mircea_popescu: well, hunger. the usa has perfected the shit sandwich to the point nobody is ever hungry. as a result... http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-13#1798480
a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:37 zx2c4: i'm not saying everyone with leisure _does_ do something worthwhile with it. but you cant deny that leisure is in many cases a necessary precondition for many great aspects of civilization
mircea_popescu: leisure is a precondition for the many aspect of civilisation whereby woman sits on ass all day yakking annoyingly.
ascii_lander: depends whose leisure, neh
mircea_popescu: which is generally what is meant by "africa", also.
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, there has yet not existed such a system where the top wasn't leisurely. the "leisure / no leisure" discussion contrasts "leisure for all" with "leisure for some"
ascii_lander: 'for all' is a lolscam
mircea_popescu: it's the "tourism" "modern democracy" etc idiocy.
mircea_popescu: "tourism" you know. as if that fucking counts as travel. "totally not brownstone tenement sir" british houses consisting of 1.7 sq ft of garden in front, and "bbq space" behind.
mircea_popescu: and so following.
ascii_lander: speaking of 'for all', i saw (on 2 consec. days!) a sight that must be seen to be believed : 500+ gurlz standing in line. for what? for 'starbucks'
mircea_popescu: nah. the line really was for whitehoorse riding prince charmings.
ascii_lander: these live in 'starbux'?
mircea_popescu: they put pegasus turds in those cups didn';t you know.
ascii_lander: can't think of why else. couldn't be for the burned old tyre they serve as 'coffee'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799724 << this is the equivalent of "designing" a caveroom. tell you what : if your approach is substractive, no systems engineering took place. the guy hacking a motorcycle out of two broken cars isn't an industrialist, he's a scavenger. these are fundamentally, and radically, different things.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 10:05 spyked: then moving from this approach you can systematically eliminate e.g. "pdf library" or e.g. "udev" or e.g. "protected mode" or everything else that is not *needed* for the system, not just userland (if there should be anything such as "a userland" at all in there)
mircea_popescu: as a matter of fact, there's no design in cave rooms : you will dig where the soil [read: resistence of the medium] permits you to dig, and that is all.
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: 1 problem with 'modern' industry is that virtually every design includes elements of 'hack old cars that were ~given~ into new motorcycle'
mircea_popescu: buildings, however, are a very opposite attempt : the dismal resistance of air (and see also un prophete discussion of winds here) and the minimal and well understood constraint of gravity allow enough free space for design to be a thing.
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, this is not a problem with modern industry as much as it's a problem with the EXTREME cognitive cost of design.
ascii_lander: moar with economy of scale (e.g. the impracticality of rolling out a new IC for every new thing)
mircea_popescu: and let's reintroduce the http://trilema.com/technology-and-governance discussion here as well.
ascii_lander: oh hey BB is here
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799742 << you don't have to try. with the company you keep, it does itself.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 14:06 danielpbarron: got a message from my former employer that they "Have a service" and were notified of my blog post. hows that for seo? i'm not even trying to game the search
mircea_popescu: the signal is indeed VERY strong from these parts.
mircea_popescu: ftr, i thought your post was quite elegant, 99% of bloggers, begginner or otherwise, would have fallen into the ditch of "oh, i r allmighty powerful deity, i crush your companee!!!" nonsense.
mircea_popescu: aaaand omfg, caught up with the logs! that... was painless.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799833 <-- but! the a, b examples I gave were *not* in any sense subtractive, read again. and by "eliminate" I mean, the words from vocabulary, unlearn them, throw to trash bin (hence "systematically"!), *not* "take monolith and prod it with toothpick"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 14:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799724 << this is the equivalent of "designing" a caveroom. tell you what : if your approach is substractive, no systems engineering took place. the guy hacking a motorcycle out of two broken cars isn't an industrialist, he's a scavenger. these are fundamentally, and radically, different things.
danielpbarron: i still like them. wasn't trying to do harm with the post. it was my intention to move on after that season, just didn't think it'd get cut short is all
spyked: in fact 90% of blogpost was purely a discussion on terminology. eliminate "general purpose os" from head and you're left only with means to create a sane system.
danielpbarron: lemme know when's a good time to do the atruechurch Q&A
mircea_popescu: spyked, i don't see how this distinction works. what does "eliminate word from vocabulary" even mean, you'll take out some classes/dependencies/whatever out of a pile of lines of code, leaving a them-shaped hole behind.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, indeed. hey, purity is a great boon for blogging.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, now'd be great.
mircea_popescu: spyked, i disagree general purpose os is actually a null concept, or a useless one.
mircea_popescu: the best example i can think of is the code on the old handheld calculators. THAT is a general purpose os : it makes no assumption about the downstream, merely fully, cleanly and directly exposes the hardware.
mircea_popescu: then they moved to a non-general purpose os, and alf threw a fit because the thing took time to boot or w/e.
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: could you elaborate your argument on why you think the 0 response is different from the 16, 32, 48, etc response? spare me the hand-wavy "its always an invariant!" arguments. can you give some real security analysis of what you have in mind? am willing to take your concern seriously if theres a good case for it
mircea_popescu: i suppose at work might be a confusion between what-some-idiots-might-be-thinking-retroconstructed-on-the-flimsy-basis-of-how-they-behave, where "general purpose os" means "the sprinkle of magic turning the computer from a computer to anything i want it to be, which is to say a tool that magicvally works for any purpose i might come up with, especially the nonsensical and self-contradictory ones".
mircea_popescu: whereas the proper definition of "general purpose" is the one mentioned, "which makes no assumptions about the userland".
zx2c4: these are broad and hand-wavy. im trying to find some real meat here to analyse
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, yes.
mircea_popescu: if i have a message, which is not null, i can package that message in any string of any arbitrary sized chunklets. so your observing 8+16+24+8+8 does not tell you whether you observed 5 null messages, or a 64 message, or 4 16s, or anything else.
mircea_popescu: multiple things sum to any integer larger than 0.
danielpbarron: !!up Darwin_Fish
mircea_popescu: NOTHING however sums to 0, not in reality, becasuse there's no negative integers in reality.
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, does that work ?
mircea_popescu: hi there Darwin_Fish
mircea_popescu: ever been on irc before ?
Darwin_Fish: never done much online like this
mircea_popescu: do you know about rsa and cryptography and so on ?
Darwin_Fish: a little from daniel
mircea_popescu: i'll propose something to you : inasmuch as one is in a better position understanding god for god, rather than understanding god for what some guy said, cryptography is the most direct path to divinity.
Darwin_Fish: i didn't know cryptography was a religion
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: im trying to apply what you said to IP
mircea_popescu: but we're discussing theology not religion. cryptography is eminently not a religion. in fact, i'm the frirst one to have ever said anything remotely like the foregoing, and it's giving crypto people hives just reading it.
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, go ahead.
Darwin_Fish: what's the difference between theology and religion?
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, you ever heard that quip, that "in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice ; in practice, there is" ? "theologically, there's no difference between theology and religion. but religiously..."
Darwin_Fish: sorry, don't follow the logic. If there is no difference, what's the difference.
mircea_popescu: well, have you ever met a religious dude who didn't SAY, and broadly think, they're following god ?
mircea_popescu: they all say it. but do they really ? so what's the difference!
Darwin_Fish: I consider an atheist religious. But, of course there are plenty of people who say and don't do
Darwin_Fish: By the way, God doesn't believe in atheists
mircea_popescu: hehe, i might've read that somewhere.
Darwin_Fish: Romans 1:18-32
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, how did that work,
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: let's take a protocol that just encrypts ip packets and nothing more. traffic analysis of the size of packets gives you something, especially in the case of TCP where there are necessary types of responses at various points. but i suppose you want me to consider "general purpose cases". so im thinking about a raw UDP protocol. in this case, it might be that at the end of an exchange, one side has nothing more to say, and so it says
zx2c4: nothing. alternatively, it sends a bunch of garbage data at random points to trip up traffic analysis. now introduce the wireguard final-confirmation keepalive. one side has nothing more to say, yet it just now received a message from the other side. rather than sending nothing, wireguard now sends a single length 0 message. after that, both sides are entirely silent. what does the sending of that length 0 message reveal that sending nothing would
zx2c4: not reveal?
danielpbarron: !~bible rom 1:18-32
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:18 :: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:19 :: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:20 :: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:21 :: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Romans 1:22 :: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
jhvh1: danielpbarron: ERROR: I have more than 5 matching passages from your query (10 left). Please be more specific.
mircea_popescu: shinohai, one line only!!1
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, but the option isn't exactly "send nothing or send 0 length message". the option is "send nothing / zero length message OR send the time".
zx2c4: the time?
Darwin_Fish: For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (Rom 1:20 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, anyway, theology is the study of divinity as a theoretical possibility ; religion is the study of historical human practice. the catholics resolve this problem by claiming (falsely) that they were specifically promised god will preserve their religion in theology. this claim has all the strength of their claim constantine deeded them the world.
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, some random 8 byte string or whatever.
Darwin_Fish: I ok, I understand your distinction now
Darwin_Fish: I often refer to religion as you described it
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, good. so what would you say is the fundamental thing in children that eventually, but necessarily, leads them to at the very least question the possibility of divinity, if not outright seek it ?
Darwin_Fish: That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. (Joh 1:9 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: yes, but i mean in practical terms.
Darwin_Fish: God makes Himself known to every human on the planet
Darwin_Fish: in their hearts
Darwin_Fish: You don't have to have a Bible
mircea_popescu: yes. but i propose to you the instrument thereby is the infantile tendency to question "why ?". that's what they fucking do, all day long, at least the brighter ones.
Darwin_Fish: to know some of the concepts therein
mircea_popescu: eventually they give up, mostly because adults are TERRIBLE at answering why ; and also because they get distraught, and the children dun wanna bother them. so it gets rubbed out.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless... without the why...
Darwin_Fish: oh yes, God has made children inquisitive
trinque: "knock and the door shall be opened" eh?
trinque dusts off the cobwebs in that wing of his skull
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, and that is the substance of my proposition earlier. there is no place known to me where the most refined and annoying whys can be stated quite like in this field.
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: if what you mean is rather than sending an empty packet, i should instead rand(20,200) zero bytes encrypted, then i wonder what this would accomplish. the other side now receives this. if it's a keepalive message (which it knows after decryption), then it goes silent. if it's not, then it either responds with whatever is appropriate to respond to that, or if it has nothing to say, it would have to send a keepalive too. in
zx2c4: otherwords, an attacker still knows that the protocol has gone silent, because one side will stop responding. it sounds to me like what you would prefer is for both sides always to be talking and chatting -- always, and with garbage when not with real data -- to trip of traffic analysis. that's a legitimate desire, and there are many other additional things can add to protocols to further trip up traffic analysis. wireguard distinctly isn't focused
zx2c4: on that, instead preferring to be "stealthy" and "silent" when not in use. this naturally reveals when communications happen, but it also makes the endpoints undiscoverable when theyre not talking. also, it'd be easy to build that kind of 'always chatting' logic into whatever specific application you need to conceal. or, alternatively, simply write an additional utility that sits on top of wireguard that sends junk back and forth at quasi random
zx2c4: intervals relative to the amount of existing traffic. i wouldnt be surprised if something like this already exists.
mircea_popescu: WHY the fuck does rsa even work >:
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i don't mean random (20,200). i just mean, the size of your smallest non-zero packet. was it 8 or what was it ?
Darwin_Fish: It takes patience to answer why repeatedly. It also takes understanding, which most people don't have
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, so is your idea that basically this should be handled by the app importing your lib, rather than the lib itself, more flexibility this way ?
Darwin_Fish: Because, if you keep asking why, it always leads to God
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, quite, "why ?" is an escalator, every successive why needs exponentially more resources to answer.
Darwin_Fish: That's why it always leads to God
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: re:rand(20,200) - sorry. random number of bytes is all i was going for. (an ip header is 20 bytes, so you'd probably want to bound it at that. and 200 seems like a reasonable cut off. but of course we could keep engineering and designing that sort of thing and come up with different numbers.)
Darwin_Fish: He is the answer to every why
Darwin_Fish: For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Col 1:16 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, check it out, agreement and harmony. now satisfy my curiosity : what happened with al soto ?
Darwin_Fish: upholding all things by the word of His power, (Heb 1:3 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, honestly, i'm satisfied with this for an answer "look, wireguard can be used many ways, nothing wrong with your way, and it's supported, but in general other people want other things and so there it is".
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: wireguard isnt a library. its a virtual network interface that tunnels ip packets. what im pointing out is that your suggestion implies that both sides must _keep_ talking always, since thats the only way to obscure termination messages.
Darwin_Fish: For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. (Rom 11:36 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, yeah. have you seen anything re gossipd, ~speaking the tmsr-wireguard ?
Darwin_Fish: But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person. (1Co 5:11 NKJ)
Darwin_Fish: He was a covetous man
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: and i think having that kind of thing always on -- constant chattiness -- would be a security step backwards, since it'd give up stealthiness. but of course if you still wanted it for a special use case, there's nothing in wireguard preventing you from having it pretty easily
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, that doesn't tell me much, does it ?
zx2c4: (or even general purpose utilities that could ostensibly work over any link)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, aha.
zx2c4: tmsr? gossipd?
Darwin_Fish: He couldn't stop spending money he shouldn't be spending (i.e. creating debt)
Darwin_Fish: Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. (Heb 13:5 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, tmsr, the most serene republic, this thing. gossipd, lessee.... there's http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ and http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gossipd and not much else. it's vaporware for now.
Darwin_Fish: Owe no one anything except to love one another, (Rom 13:8 NKJ)
zx2c4: oh, the most serene acronym, shoulda known
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, so basically he ran up the church / your ccs, and eventually it had to come to an end ?
Darwin_Fish: No, he was spending his money
Darwin_Fish: but creating debt, at least in his own mind
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, the idea being that the "wtf are you going to do, keep talking forever with anyone you ever talk to ?! morons!" problem is not unknown, but a major item giving me a bellyache as it stands now. invariants, god damn them all.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, how does that work though ? i mean...
Darwin_Fish: He thought he was going to owe the gov thousands of dollars
Darwin_Fish: but kept spending money
Darwin_Fish: thus "creating" debt to the gov
mircea_popescu: but how do you know what he thought ? "the devil himself knows not the tought of man" etc.
Darwin_Fish: he told us
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: the more interesting approach to foiling that kind of traffic analysis is the general topic of mixnets
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i suspect you're right.
zx2c4: always swirling data around, so not only do you not know who's talking when, but you don't know who's talking to whom
Darwin_Fish: He knew about it for months
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, maybe he was confused.
Darwin_Fish: He was actually incorrect
Darwin_Fish: He actually didn't end up owing anything, so he said later
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, isn't it silly, to ruin a long standing relationship like that, over what was in the end a small error ?
Darwin_Fish: I had hoped to bring him back in the church, but now he hates my guts
Darwin_Fish: He faults me for being involved in the Ron Paul movement
Darwin_Fish: Which fault I agree with, in part
zx2c4: > For a functional example consider node A, whose "encryption" mechanism consists of sha256(string+"hurr"), and node B, whose encryption mechanism consists of sha256("durr"+string.).
zx2c4: sha256 isnt an encryption function. also beware this construction, especially the second one where the string comes last -- length extension is a problem with sha2
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, tell me about that ?
zx2c4: (quoted from your link)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, was just an example.
mircea_popescu: !!up Darwin_Fish
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, given like that for the sake of ready computability, see. nothing more.
Darwin_Fish: Ron Paul believes prostitution should be legal. I turned a blind eye to that, but I should not have
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, prostitution is legal here (costa rica). are they all going to hell ?
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: im curious -- why are you so bent on RSA? ECC has been around for quite some time now and has numerous advantages
Darwin_Fish: at least in my own conscience
Darwin_Fish: I would not condemn someone else it
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i don't buy into the advantages.
Darwin_Fish: for it
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, what is the problem with prostitution ?
Darwin_Fish: Everyone who practices prostitution and does not repent, yes
mircea_popescu: the whores ~and~ the johns ?
Darwin_Fish: Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot, lest the land fall into harlotry, and the land become full of wickedness. (Lev 19:29 NKJ)
zx2c4: all of them? some of the advantages are indisputable like key size and computation speed and implementation ease. im guessing you dont believe there's a security advantage over RSA? you're not soothed by the fact that many attacks against RSA dont work with ECC? okay, but that still doesn't discredit the indisputable advantages. so then maybe your position is that ECC has _weaker_ security than RSA for various reasons? that'd be a more interesting
zx2c4: claim, if that's the one you're implying
Darwin_Fish: Yes, But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev 21:8 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, no, they're fucking disputable. you're going to tell me you get "the same thing" but "with a smaller key" ? i'm tuning out, this is nonsense.
Darwin_Fish: That is sexual immorality
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, the only thing you can get with a smaller key is "something just as good", in the sense mcdonalds is just as good as the restaurant i go to. perhaps it is -- for the poor. i'm not poor, nor do i orient my life around the needs of the needy.
Darwin_Fish: God makes the rules.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, but is it immoral for both the harlot and the guy paying her ?
mircea_popescu: but... listen. isn't this the whole entire proposition of manhood, both biologically and socio-historically, "go ye and make a pile of resources so females may be attracted thereby" ?
mircea_popescu: and not just human manhood, at that, ~all species.
Darwin_Fish: Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!
Darwin_Fish: 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh."
Darwin_Fish: 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Darwin_Fish: 18 Flee sexual immorality. (1Co 6:15-18 NKJ)
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: the keys in ECC are smaller. if your position is that this cant possibly mean it's more secure than RSA, then i suppose the actual claim you're making is that 'ECC with ECC-sized keys is less secure than RSA with RSA-sized keys'. what's the basis for this?
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i proposition that the smaller the key, the smaller the key. this can't be meaningless.
Darwin_Fish: Not sure if I understand your question
mircea_popescu: my budget for a key happens to be 4096 bits. it makes 0 difference to me that there's a cheaper provider offering 16 bit keys. everyone offering a key under 4096 bits is par for this test.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, well, which part of it ?
Darwin_Fish: If I understand your question, the answer is no. This is God's purpose: And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Darwin_Fish: 27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Darwin_Fish: 28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, (Act 17:26-28 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, and the "that many attacks against RSA dont work with ECC" claim is especially odious, as it comes from a single source, which is a criminal org with a history of manipulatively lying. what happens is that usg publishes every ~useless "attack" on rsa and withholds the few ~working~ attacks on ecc from publishing. then you get this situation where seemingly, for the very naive surface-seekers, "ecc has advantages". it h
mircea_popescu: as no advantage.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, is not man made for work ?
Darwin_Fish: Word is part of the curse, Gen 3
mircea_popescu: so work is a curse, and not substantial to mankind ?
Darwin_Fish: Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Darwin_Fish: 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Darwin_Fish: 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."
Darwin_Fish: (Gen 3:17-19 NKJ)
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: ahh that ignorant and antiquated notion, that "key size implies security size". or do you think there will be some amazing GNFS-like algorithms that come out for ECC, requiring ECC to use absurdly huge keys in the same way as RSA?
Darwin_Fish: God uses our work to bless us
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, looky, i get that i may seem retarded at times and in some lights, but it's not a safe assumption.
Darwin_Fish: He who has a slack hand becomes poor, But the hand of the diligent makes rich. (Pro 10:4 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: the algos for ecc will ~never come out, until the day i water my horse out of the repurposed washington monument, of course.
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: i take it now that mostly you're skeptical because the nsa was pushing ecc in the early years, before everyone else woke up to it
mircea_popescu: what is this "absurdly" large ? why is 4096 even large at all ?
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i am very skeptical because rsa they hated and ecc they pushed and then suddenly everyone forgot the 90s and is all onboard.
mircea_popescu: how T?HE FUCK can you even look at anything nsa says other than "this is what the liars are pushing these days" ? hm ?
Darwin_Fish: The rich and the poor have this in common, The LORD is the maker of them all. (Pro 22:2 NKJ)
zx2c4: i think cloudflare has an ELI5 article from a few years back about "what all the key sizes doth mean"
zx2c4: lemme see if im remembering correctly...
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, so you don't believe there's a sexual motivation in work ?
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-are-some-keys-small/ here we go
mircea_popescu: oh, cloudflare!
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, look, think of a number between 0 and 2, 0 and 2 exclusive. have you ? here i go, ima guess it! you thought of 1!
mircea_popescu: wtf, i have to explain why short keys are shorter than longer keys ?
Darwin_Fish: The person who labors, labors for himself, For his hungry mouth drives him on. (Pro 16:26 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: the hungry mouth of the wife and the wails of starving children notwithstanding ?
Darwin_Fish: No, a man can certainly be motivated by that
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, understand, the expectation here isn't "longer, therefore better". the situation is as described above, my key budget is 4096 bits, both ecc and rsa are ok by this measure.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, but is this motivation evil ?
Darwin_Fish: the sexual drive is not evil
mircea_popescu: so it is not evil for man to work so that a woman can eat ?
Darwin_Fish: of course not
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: so from your mention of "criminal org" it seems to me that your concern is not so much the mathematical issues that are discussed in the literature, but rather a particular history that to you indicates there must be secret attacks that only the select few geniuses at the nsa know about, and everybody pushing ecc is either in on the conspiracy or just dumber than the nsa geniuses. i guess you're entitled to this opinion -- what's
zx2c4: one man's hunch vs another man's? but there has been a lot a lot a lot of open academic analysis on ecc for many years now and this alleged smoking gun still has not been found. so, meh.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, so then what's the problem with whoredom. that they came up with their own arrangement, rather than using a wedding ?
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, my concern is that the literature is entirely worthless.
zx2c4: then crypto is doomed?
Darwin_Fish: God says it's evil. That's all it ever comes down to
mircea_popescu: which is possibly the one point where we mostly diverge in our priors, you look upon published extant cryptology as some kind of a scientific discipline, whereas to me it's ~gender studies for numbers.
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, not doomed as long as the republic stands.
Darwin_Fish: When you are discussing something being evil, it's always because God says so
Darwin_Fish: Otherwise, there is no morality whatsoever
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, there's no deductive component in establishing what is evil ?
Darwin_Fish: Nothing other than God declaring it is so
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, but your source for what god declared is a book which a guy wrote and some other guys maybe didn't alter (too much).
Darwin_Fish: There is no absolute on morality accept God Himself
Darwin_Fish: It was written by about 40 men
Darwin_Fish: Via the Jews
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, i wonder, are you willing to read a story i wrote tell me what you think ?
mircea_popescu: it's not terribly long.
zx2c4: if secret government scientists are lightyears ahead of "entirely worthless" academics, and they have secret attacks on everything academia is currently okay with, then i guess it's game over, and we have to wait until we're at a ripe old age to read the history books on the secret mathematics of our present age. i dont really share this point of view though. and even aside from the factual validity of it, it doesn't seem like a psychologically
zx2c4: healthy assumption to live by. so again, my response to that kind of thing is, "meh"
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, they have no pill for rsa ; which is why the ecc behaviour.
mircea_popescu: we're ok. the various fashionable webtards, i guess not so much.
mircea_popescu: but then again, we're worth trillions, whereas webtards... not so much.
mircea_popescu: which, if you think about it, explains the homeostasis observed quite well.
zx2c4: your guess about secret government conspiracies is as good as mine? some people think they are vast; others think they are small. some think ecc; others think rsa; some think jfk; others think apollo. ...
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
mircea_popescu: so no, my guess is not as good as yours. i can speak ex cathedra.
zx2c4: * shrug *
mircea_popescu: this is where all that "how the wot works" thing is referenced again.
mircea_popescu: man acting alone is stuck with these "oh, a conclave of idiots bent on self preservation and avoiding the lowly station their idiocy warrants them holds all the power, and i'll act as man alone confronted by governemnt".
mircea_popescu: whereas terrorist org couldn't give less of a shit about a weaker other org.
mircea_popescu: and so no, i'm not in this position of haplessly, helplessly poking at the great-mystery
Darwin_Fish: It reminds me of Job 12
Darwin_Fish: 7 "But now ask the beasts, and they will teach you; And the birds of the air, and they will tell you;
Darwin_Fish: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; And the fish of the sea will explain to you.
Darwin_Fish: 9 Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this,
Darwin_Fish: 10 In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind? (Job 12:7-10 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: well, so did you like it ?
Darwin_Fish: To be frank, it was a little hard to follow. But, that could be a comment on my own intellect
mircea_popescu: who knows these things.
mircea_popescu: so what's life like, in rural oklahoma ?
Darwin_Fish: Very thankful to be here
Darwin_Fish: more freedom than CA
Darwin_Fish: Better laws, except for pot
Darwin_Fish: No building codes
mircea_popescu: have you ever considered starting a blog ? it's really not that hard, and i mean look at danielpbarron : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799742
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 14:06 danielpbarron: got a message from my former employer that they "Have a service" and were notified of my blog post. hows that for seo? i'm not even trying to game the search
Darwin_Fish: no building permits, freedom to homeschool
mircea_popescu: !!up nodehelp
deedbot: nodehelp voiced for 30 minutes.
danielpbarron: !!up Darwin_Fish
Darwin_Fish: Although, I prefer CA for the abundance of big events to attend
Darwin_Fish: and preach at
nodehelp: hi, it's just me or deedbot host is painfully slow to download the initial files?
mircea_popescu: does it ever do anything ? people convert ?
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, not usually slow, no. may be your connection ? which initial files are these ?
Darwin_Fish: On very rare occasion
mircea_popescu: so maybe you're not missing all that much anyway.
nodehelp: libboost and linux kernel, etc...
Darwin_Fish: People don't believe the Bible, even those who claim to
nodehelp: i'm not very expert, just trying to follow the script to install trb
Darwin_Fish: No, I like doing it despite the outcome
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, consider this place, chicks regularily come asking to write strings on their tits, and it's not even in california!
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, link ?
shinohai: !~bible Job 12:7-10
jhvh1: shinohai: [KJV] Job 12:7 :: But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
Darwin_Fish: I've never been attracted to loose chicks
jhvh1: shinohai: [KJV] Job 12:8 :: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
jhvh1: shinohai: [KJV] Job 12:9 :: Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?
jhvh1: shinohai: [KJV] Job 12:10 :: In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Darwin_Fish: they turn me off
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, ok, but the point is ~they come seeking~. numbers for their tits!
Darwin_Fish: Even before I believed the Bible
Darwin_Fish: Like I said, that's not appealing to me
Darwin_Fish: Those kind of chicks carry crabs, diseases, etc..
mircea_popescu: but the point was the seeking not the chicks.
Darwin_Fish: I've seen that plenty as a Probation Officer years ago
mircea_popescu: o yeah, that must've been some experience.
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, that is a deed of a linux kernel. like 105mb.
Darwin_Fish: It was. I saw alot of things that were kind of mind-blowing
mircea_popescu: make a blog, write them up. i'd read!
Darwin_Fish: Kids pounding their head against a cement floor as hard as they can
mircea_popescu: why ?
Darwin_Fish: Because of the utter frustration. The system is unjust and oppressive
nodehelp: mircea_popescu: i know, but is going at like 1 mbit the download
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, so then, 20mins or something. doesn't seem slow, just, large file.
trinque: nodehelp: why the hell would I let you use all of my pipe
douchebag: !!up CindyB
deedbot: CindyB voiced for 30 minutes.
Darwin_Fish: It is not just to treat people like animals and cage them up
deedbot: E4D372C98806FA0DC4AF87C7C0CFA01EBCC4105F registered as CindyB.
CindyB: Im here to show my tits
nodehelp: trinque: how large is your pipe?
Darwin_Fish: That's too bad. May God have mercy on you before it is too late
nodehelp: just to know for science purposes
mircea_popescu: CindyB, e638a18a. you got half hour.
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799145 i dunno if i had any pull-y things in mind. im not making a product or anything. just designing secure protocols and implementations and hoping something comes out of it
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 21:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1799029 << anyway, i wouldn't simplify it quite to that point. obviously there's a pull and there's a push way to make money, and if i propose to some guy, "do x, get y" it's my push not his pull, and obviously if he wants to pull instead of waiting to b pushed aroundhe gotta do pull-y sorta things. but anyways.
trinque: nodehelp: I don't care to discuss it with you.
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, well, so then take it easy and trust in the future ? obviously not everyone can possibly be running clippers to india, else who'd be making the colonnades back in the forum.
mircea_popescu: one obvious in for you to make dough is consultancy : take for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-09#1794662 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-14#1798991
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 15:16 mircea_popescu: soo trinque, can i hire you to install your blessed gentoo in there ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-14 06:15 mircea_popescu: !!pay trinque 0.03
mircea_popescu: he maintains a very minimal gentoo packaging, which is useful.
douchebag: !!up StephanieCx
deedbot: StephanieCx voiced for 30 minutes.
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: well seems pretty clear that the future doing what im doing now is unlikely to yield aforementioned flowering sums of 2000btc (unless of course bitcoin tanks), unless a philanthropist comes along
StephanieCx: im here to show tits
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: yea consulting is what ive been doing for over a decade now
danielpbarron: suspicious timing, but then i'm a bit of a cynic
mircea_popescu: StephanieCx, 3224f5e6. half hour.
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: interesting re:gentoo. im a gentoo developer
zx2c4: but again, does not yield floweringsums
mircea_popescu: zx2c4, it doesn't pay enough to save ? i made more money than i knew what to do with during my stint.
trinque: here's the other sad thing; these cunts are taking the coin and throwing them into 3-addys and segwit, even.
mircea_popescu: trinque, sad indeed. hey douchebag i thought you were gonna get them propper 1addy ?
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: sure i can save a little. but the point is that the more i hustle consulting, the less time i have for making more valuable contributions to the world, like developing new crypto
trinque: they take them from the 1addy and then do the idiocy behind the curtain
trinque: or douchebag is
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, he's evidently herding the kittens. but then again...
douchebag: I make them Electrum wallets which is a proper address
zx2c4: mircea_popescu: so if the consulting demands suddenly disappeared forever, im quite sure great things would come
douchebag: but they're crackheads, they just want it straight to an exchange
mircea_popescu: trinque, ah, right. such it is.
mircea_popescu: douchebag, a well. we're giving them the word of cryptogod. that they scatter it... well... experimentally verifies the prophecies.
trinque: lol, that it does.
Darwin_Fish: mircea - why do you call yourselves a terrorists org?
nodehelp: trinque: ok, now the speed for some unknow reasons has raised up
Darwin_Fish: ok, thanks. I'll read it
nodehelp: trinque: can I just ask if the dl of the deeds is more or less 1GB?
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, another advantage of having a blog is that you don't have to type everything by hand all the time. meet new people, have ready library of explanations and references. i find it QUITE empowering.
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, it's 105mb, i toldja
mircea_popescu: or you mean ~all of the deeds~ ?
nodehelp: mircea_popescu: i know but there are various, i was too lazy to open everyone and make a sum
Darwin_Fish: Yeah, it's not a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: oh oh. nodehelp if you also have a witness chain in there it may well be 15gb.
mircea_popescu doesn't presently recall if this is the case.
deedbot: 0A521A1FE1684061A47C9D87AE55F16801C3812C registered as StephanieCx.
nodehelp: can i also ask: if i want to use trb i can only do it by commandline via bitcoind or there is a way to add a gui?
mircea_popescu: afaik trb comes cli only ; you can add a gui but a) you'd have to write it and b) it'd necessarily introduce dependencies.
nodehelp: ok, i'm not confortable with cli but if is the price required i'm in
mircea_popescu: consider also that especioally b is problematic as trb isn';t ~really~ intended to be used in a home environment ; and racked servers may not provide your video whatever.
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, here's something to explain to you why cli wins and it's worth your time to spend the time on it : http://trilema.com/2015/what-amused-me-today/
mircea_popescu: there's a very clear difference between those who talk to webserver via curl and those who use browser.
nodehelp: but if is not intended, what i should use on my laptop to use bitcoin in a non bloated way?
CindyB: I messed up writing it the first time rly hard 2 write it backwards
nodehelp: ok, first problem on compile: "cfns.gperf:101:1: error: ‘const char* libc_name_p(const char*, unsigned int)’ redeclared inline with ‘gnu_inline’ attribute"
CindyB: i had to rewrite
Darwin_Fish: I think I get the general point. "Terrorist" has become quite the catch all word and word used to criminalize a person or org.
Darwin_Fish: Yet, "That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun." (Ecc 1:9 NKJ)
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, as i said before, "if it was 1800 it'd be 'witches'."
Darwin_Fish: I can't say you are wrong on that
mircea_popescu: lol check out the kaballah. also, who's bobby ?
mircea_popescu: !!pay CindyB 0.02
Darwin_Fish: Except, I think it was more like 1600, historically speaking
mircea_popescu: !!pay StephanieCx 0.02
StephanieCx: he is my ex boyfriend
Darwin_Fish: Bobby? I am not well educated on the Kaballah
mircea_popescu: StephanieCx, that's how it always works huh.
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, you gotta look at the images for tyhe comment to make sense.
StephanieCx: dont tattoo lovers names
mircea_popescu: !!up nodehelp
deedbot: nodehelp voiced for 30 minutes.
Darwin_Fish: oh, images of tits?
mircea_popescu: !!up Darwin_Fish
trinque: when we get to meth witches from crackheads, at least make 'em do the pen scribble on the forehead
nodehelp: i'm on debian 9
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, Darwin_Fish, consider making a rsa key and registering it with deedbot, then you can self voice rather than having to do this every half hour.
douchebag: if you pay extra i can get these whores to write wherever
nodehelp: is there a distro where trb generally 100% works on the first time?
trinque: douchebag: don't misunderstand it for interest
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, pretty much everything it was tired on, from ubuntu to old debian.
douchebag: I'm thinking more of entertainment value
nodehelp: what version of debian?
ben_vulpes: douchebag: go, entertain
mircea_popescu: i had it working on sarge, which is why "old debian", not that i expect you can find one.
mircea_popescu: but really, i don't know of a linux it doesn't work on, so if you find it say.
nodehelp: i've gcc 6 on this debian 9, i see on the instruction that gcc 4.x is needed
ben_vulpes: nodehelp: it builds in its own tiny linux environment, 'buildroot', you might be missing one of the few tools necessary to get/verify/build buildroot itself on a gentoo or an ubuntu but probably not
ben_vulpes: nodehelp: pick one and go for it, report results here for great glory
mircea_popescu: nodehelp, what ben_vulpes said ; it doesn't use the system much.
ben_vulpes: also register a nick and key so that glory can properly accrue
nodehelp: that's ok that the system isn't touched, but on thebitcoin.foundation site is specified to use a 4.x of gcc g++, can i ask if there is an easy way to downgrade gcc 6 to 4?
ben_vulpes: nodehelp: nope
nodehelp: or it's easier to install an older distro?
trinque: the build process itself does that.
Darwin_Fish: If that is all, I will be leaving. Thanks for the discourse.
ben_vulpes: "application binary interface" changed radically during that time, but it won't bother you because buildroot has its own gcc
ben_vulpes: yeah what trinque said
mircea_popescu: Darwin_Fish, have a great time!
douchebag: hey trinque, that is occuring when she tries to check her balance
mircea_popescu: StephanieCx, i'm batching these, so a whole set is going to go out every few hours.
Darwin_Fish: Thanks. May the Lord give you all His understanding (Pro 2:1-6).
mircea_popescu: !!key StephanieCx
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, did you have any fun ?
mircea_popescu: yeah me too.
trinque: douchebag: thing works, do not ping me for tech support for impatient crackheads.
douchebag: I was just wondering because for CindyB it at least gives a proper gpg message to decrypt
mircea_popescu: trinque, i can imagine what it's like for him at the other end though, lol.
trinque: sure, and he did that
mircea_popescu: he may also have a point, seeing how they're both in the same situation, and it behaves differently.
trinque: so then I go find out what she fucked up about her key, and so on.
mircea_popescu: have you been through a few passes of this i take it ? :D
mircea_popescu: anyway, if it accepted the reg...
trinque: might as well say now, the next cunt that pm's me over this is getting a week added to her withdrawal
mircea_popescu: tsk tsk.
mircea_popescu: trinque, should i turn it off ? too much load ?
trinque: nah, the actual withdrawals are one more boop of a qr gun.
douchebag: I know, I haven't had any girls pm you since you told me to last time. I just figured I would mention that the bot was behaving strangely for her incase that was an issue you'd be interested in
mircea_popescu: douchebag, i hear somebody fucked his server while he was setting up raids and stuff. so let's all go have an ice slush smoothie and unroll the log back to theology.
mircea_popescu: aand in today's cogitations, "all machines are milling machines -- some self-milling, some not entirely".
trinque: danielpbarron: you go to Darwin_Fish's church? doesn't seem like a half-bad guy.
trinque: pretty great name for a pastor though.
trinque: if usglandia were populated with these christians rather than the others, it'd be *far* more tolerable. I've always gotten along with them, because the skull contents tend to be orderly, even if they originate at "because the book"
mircea_popescu: trinque, "go to church" doesn't begin to describe it. here's the story as condensed by intel :
mircea_popescu: 1. there's a large, seinfeld-style (why did that guy make a bn ? was it because he was funny, sigma funny != sigma money ? or was it becauyse he put all his effort into powerwashing any "controversial" anything from everything about him, sigma pantsuit ~= sigma money ?) church in socal ("grace community church"), like ten thousand others all over the us ("new religion revival or w/e the fuck, protestand heresysnake eating its
mircea_popescu: tail forever).
mircea_popescu: 2. this item went through 4-year leadership until announted the current head (a certain macarthur fellow). he was 30ish at the time (and is 80ish now).
mircea_popescu: 3. darwin fish spent a decade, up until macarthur was ~50, in that church (after some other wrangling, mormons, whatever). then suddenly, as he himself reached 30, there was a major "time for my own church" moment. except, of course, nobody gave HIM the bn-dollar moneymaker. any they even told him why : he's way the fuck too cool for it, or as joe pesci put it, "that was the last fucking time...."
mircea_popescu: 4. he spent some time wrangling around the edges of this, words were exchanged, on the solid footing of complete misunderstanding : on one hand, "i am cool therefore wtf" ; on the other hand "dude, we're in the business of frantic activity as a cover for impotence, wtf is wrong with you".
mircea_popescu: 5. fast forward TWO DECADES. the guy lives with a small group in nature's own poverty in rural ok, then 5.a. refuses ~7 grand windfall on principle grounds but 5.b. does actually show up, ie, his refusal isn't the common "nyah nyah nyah can't hear anything" sort.
trinque: even comes across as sane but humble
mircea_popescu: if he's putting up an act it's like the most disciplined, dedicated acting i've seen.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the intricate details of the history of the interaction between him and that behemoth of inanity are literally worth the study. very clear cut teardrop diamond of issues surroundant male inheritance in pantsuitland.
mircea_popescu: the reasonable expectation is that he'd have descended into madness by now ; which is the root impetuus of why the discussion even took place. "i wonder how the hell this guy hasn't shot anyone".
mircea_popescu exposed the hand because danielpbarron doth have a knack for ferreting out interesting cases, so a sort of "here you go in exchange".
mircea_popescu: but a word to the wise : all the details aside, dear kids who dream of "revolutionizing" and "entrepreneur culture" and so on and so forth generally "usa-usa-rarara-techblabla" : it did not work for david fish, EVEN IN THE NINETIES.
mircea_popescu: and it won't work for you. not just because you're late to the game, they're about to put out the lights. it wouldn't have worked for you in the 90s, only, "surprised by wealth" half-stories & assorted gargle notwithstanding.
trinque: yeah, I'd say he probably already collected on the order of as many "actual christians" as could be found, even if the bar you're using is literacy
mircea_popescu: trinque, this is a difficult point to delve into, so i'll just concede it for expediency.
danielpbarron: work in what sense? he cares only about the Bible. still true today as it was then
mircea_popescu: in the other sense.
trinque concedes it's a bias of his own, left the church young on the basis of "magic book didn't prevent lying shitbags from infecting the magic book building"
danielpbarron: he does not expect a large following, and even prays to NOT be rich
mircea_popescu: trinque, no wot, no shoes, no service.
trinque: this before even evaluating whether the magic happenings in the book were credible
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, you know that jewish thing, "if wealth is a curse let god strike me down with it, and may i never recover"
danielpbarron: !~bible pro 30:8
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 30:8 :: Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
mircea_popescu: trinque, his other misfortune is of course environmental hazards. strikes me as a clever fellow who'd have benefitted immensely by spending his youth among people who could read the original greek texts, rather than in the mindless hive of pests "quoting" bits at each other. the functional illiteracy of the protestant church crowd wrt classic languages is patently offensive. picture "security expert" conversant in php yet una
mircea_popescu: ble to use a terminal and you've just about got it.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1800300 << he's not the leader (anymore) ever since one of his daughters fell away from the faith
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 18:39 trinque: pretty great name for a pastor though.
mircea_popescu: "oh, so and so term means bla bla" motherfuckers, makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, who is ?
danielpbarron: !~bible tit 1:5-6
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Titus 1:5 :: For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Titus 1:6 :: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, darwin
mircea_popescu: yes but if he is no longer the head then who is ?
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, re greek texts, drawin can read greek hebrew and aramaic, and is working on his own translation of the Bible
danielpbarron: ah, nobody
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, but the discussion was re his teens and early 20s.
danielpbarron: we could all have benefitted from starting what we do now, sooner
mircea_popescu: understand something : ancient languages are complex. reason 1 is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-11#1697164 ; reason 2 is http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 ; add these together suddenly proceeding hermeneutically on pre-renaissance written matter is a life's work for immortal beings.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 18:37 mircea_popescu: this is how it manages the inapproximable "whisks" of meaning that latin-style then has so much trouble noting down.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mircea_popescu: i can also read phf's code, "can read" is a low standard in this context.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the original argument against "translating the scripture" is so strong. and yes it was a mistake.
danielpbarron: it was a mistake to translate?
danielpbarron: i think the kjv and nkjv are suitable english translations
danielpbarron: and darwin's even better
mircea_popescu: "suitable" may work in some contexts ; but in this one the word is already the seal of doom, you've lost.
danielpbarron: you don't need to read the Bible to believe it
trinque: danielpbarron: how can you judge that without reading (and loading the time's literary graph into skull) the ancient original
mircea_popescu: yes ; but you do need to read it to read it.
trinque: or call it cultural graph, broader
danielpbarron: God has caused me to believe it, against my will
danielpbarron: !~bible psa 97:6
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Psalms 97:6 :: The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
danielpbarron: do i need to speak heavenese to hear this declaration?
mircea_popescu: were the book written in this heavenly tongue, it'd be immediately readable i guess. but it factually is not.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the argument against translating is twofold, and leaving the first obvious fold aside (hey, perfect translations may be impossible, but good translations do exist, and that's the job of the exceptional person, wtf else -- anania did it in romanian, and others did it before, it is not entirely impossible) : it introduces the NOTION of translation. i dunno if you're familiar with the meaning of that term, the original m
mircea_popescu: eaning, as captured in "traddutore, tradditore" or otherwise in english "conversion" as the form of theft.
danielpbarron: God chooses (before they are born) who will believe. If He wants you to be saved, He can do it whether you can read or not. He could miraculously make you literate, not that such a thing is even required
mircea_popescu: so then what's the use of these suitable substitutes ?
danielpbarron: i'd like to eventually get Darwin's translation up as a html rather than the pdf it's currently in
danielpbarron: it's helpful to have translations when contending with others
danielpbarron: we come accross people all the time who claim to believe in God, and then deny what their own translation says about Him
mircea_popescu: so what do you need a translation for then, just use their string as-is.
danielpbarron: contending also takes place within the church
danielpbarron: when you rebuke a fellow, you should have scripture to cite
mircea_popescu: yes, but it is never because of a misread and always because of an erection. referring to the sources never fixed the latter.
danielpbarron: if someone won't consent to wholesome words, they are without faith and should be cast out
mircea_popescu: why ?
danielpbarron: 1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From
mircea_popescu: are you stuck maintaining god's wot now ? why, because he's too stupid to know how to work the rating system ?
danielpbarron: \ such withdraw yourself. (cut off from first line)
mircea_popescu: there's space enough between "from such withdraw yourself" and "and should be cast out".
mircea_popescu: compare and contrast the handling of #b-a / #trilema split and rando "incorrectly minded" etc. withdraw yourself from egregious idiocy of a pernicious bent, sure. but...
danielpbarron: if there is one person in the fellow that won't consent to wholesome words, and everyone else withdraws, is that not like casting the one out?
mircea_popescu: it is, if it were what occured. most of the time it's not what occured.
danielpbarron: it's happened plenty of times here
mircea_popescu: sure, here. i meant with the religious practice abroad.
danielpbarron: the false churches are wicked in everything they do, even when what they do is good
danielpbarron: 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
danielpbarron: re: maintaining God's WoT
danielpbarron: Daniel 4:37 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all of whose works are truth, and His ways justice. And those who walk in pride He is able to put down.
danielpbarron: ^ there is hope for even you mircea_popescu, for there have been rulers of the world who praised the true God
mircea_popescu: lol well that's good news.
mircea_popescu: shall i quote thomas at you or no need ?
danielpbarron: i don't see the point, as it's not part of the Bible
mircea_popescu: you know, "show me the light, by all means, but later"
danielpbarron: Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. 26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, "Who then can be saved?" 27 But Jesus looked at them and said, "With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible."
mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the 2nd fold of the error : the NOTION of translation is pernicious, and stuff like the protestant lulz of "church of self-esteem" or "we choose to emphasize <bla>" are not unbound errors.
mircea_popescu: they're the necessary fruit of "here, learning languages is too hard, we translated it for you"
mircea_popescu: "well gee! if you can trnaslate it for me, why can't it all be about what i want to do anyway ?"
mircea_popescu: the ancient "a philanthropist is the guy who gives me money so i can do what i was going to do in the first place".
danielpbarron: yes but you can hold against the false churches, theire own translations!
mircea_popescu: and in the EXACT same vein, the catholic jesusnonsense ( http://trilema.com/2017/and-dont-go-around-upgrading-the-testaments-either/ ) & "god got over it" ( http://trilema.com/2016/hail-cesar/#selection-65.1-52.9 )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, sure, why not.
mircea_popescu: im not proposing anyone's doing something wrong. i'm disputing whether anyone's doing anything at all.
douchebag: !!up TammyLol
deedbot: TammyLol voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: 1E2A462B7D3948185C0D6A5AA099DF103B50478E registered as TammyLol.
mircea_popescu: douchebag, for the record, this thing whereby you get a coupla in, wait for them to be processed, get another coupla in etc is not only dumb, but against the very concept of a batch. get all of them in, save me the trouble of having to handle n batches.
mircea_popescu: TammyLol, 679967b6. half hour.
danielpbarron: "huh what's that for? i'm here to show you my ADA bitcointron i wrote"
douchebag: Alright, I'll get another in a sec
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, ahahaha. that'd be something.
danielpbarron: btw Darwin said he was glad some chix showed up while he was in here, so that he could give them a warning
mircea_popescu: sure, why not.
danielpbarron: would it be over the top to warn each and every one of them? probably spammy i figured
mircea_popescu: well, if he does it in channel he'll prolly get whacked. if he pms them... whatever. maybe freenode won't like it.
danielpbarron: i meant me doing it. he's not interested in doing the whole irc thing on a regular basis
mircea_popescu: have him register himself, get a cloak, he's silly dreaming of south california while eschewing this wonder.
danielpbarron: i shall write up a blog post to link to them i guess
mircea_popescu: ah. well, same to you, except you';re already registered lol.
douchebag: !!up Brittt
deedbot: Brittt voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: FB5FBFD1059024E472E05DD3703049DF5038DD7D registered as Brittt.
mircea_popescu: Brittt, ec410a1d. haaalf houer!!1
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, why not, anyway ?
mircea_popescu: !!pay TammyLol 0.02
danielpbarron: right now i'm trying to figure out why the pretty urls thing broke my edit-post thing to where the handy "insert link/blockquote" buttons disappeared
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, sounds like permission issue on the js dir. check all your htaccesses.
mircea_popescu: but the why not was re " he's not interested in doing the whole irc thing".
mircea_popescu: !!up ascii_lander
deedbot: ascii_lander voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: tell me i got my minigame box now ?
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: it's racked. still need engentooation
mircea_popescu: well let me know. and re douchebag 's item also!
mircea_popescu: eeexciting times.
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: you can have dulap's gentoo, or make own when the ipkvm comes online tonight
ascii_lander: ( it needs a dr mengele job re the power cord )
danielpbarron: aha, i see the problem. js/.htaccess had "deny from all"
ascii_lander: of greater concern is trinque's machine; i am starting to think that one of his sub-blades has overheat issue
ascii_lander: trinque: around ?
danielpbarron: is it not a good idea to allow all on this directory? is it not protected in the same way the rest of wp-admin is? via username/password SESSION or w/e?
ascii_lander is on a pingpong table in BingoBoingo's coworkery, freeloading on a sp pronounciation lesson by very puurty venezolana chixx
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, it's not world-readable in principle, but you can just lock it to yourself only without drawbacks also.
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, oh the why not irc, i'd have to ask for more specifics but generally he's pretty busy as it is, and he doesn't like to hang out with non believers too much
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, pic the lovebirds, i'm curious if any of the weight rubbed back off on him!
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, so are you going to become the al soto v2.0 ? historically the guy did a lot trying to get the thing online, with mixed success.
danielpbarron: i hope not
mircea_popescu: are you moving there permanently btw ?
danielpbarron: already did
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: took pic. will upload when i get back to room where the photo-extraction cable is
mircea_popescu: !!pay Brittt 0.02
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, cool deal.
ascii_lander: bahahaha i could listen to this chix allday
ascii_lander attemps to eat log before battery dies
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: lemme know if you will be making own gentoo (or whichever alternative) for smg box, or whether you'd like an engentooation with my own hands
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, ?
ascii_lander: ( 100% of cargo racked btw. tho some of the rails had to be bent, i bent'em back by hand lol )
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me : next trip could actually be bingoboingo himself ?
diana_coman: engentootation by ascii_lander's own hands sounds good to me
mircea_popescu: cool. ascii_lander you using trinque 's recipe or own device ?
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: own, which is much moar 'plane jane', isn't musltronic yet sadly
ascii_lander: but if trinque wants to do his, i can put him on kvm
danielpbarron: huzzah! got my buttons back! tyvm
ascii_lander: the q is, will your item run on musltronic gentoo ( is it static ? )
mircea_popescu: just trying to merge these eventually.
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, i don't expect it is no.
mircea_popescu: but he got fucking deluge and other arbitrary "here's some web-picked shit" going on his, so i am currently very highly regarding it.
ascii_lander: then prolly you'll be wanting mean old drepperistic gentoo then.
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i am to understand that he has a 100% working musltron
ascii_lander: but on those you gotta be yourself statically linked (rather than trying to load glibc)
mircea_popescu: i am unclear on the details yet.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, ascii_lander anyway, i expect you'll keep each other entertained for a spell with mg server, so.
ascii_lander: i had a musltronic selfmade buildrootlinuxoid on pogo, it had this attribute (unsurprisingly)
diana_coman: sadly not static, no
ascii_lander: ascii_lander's current objectives : 1) find out wtf is happening to trinque's blade 2) drmengele power distributor to fit #14 cable 3) power up the ipkvm (ru plug) and 5v power source for rockchippen (ditto)
ascii_lander: after (3) engentooation can be carried out from a place where i dun have to sit on the floor and have back of shirt menacingly sucked into the exhaust manifold
ascii_lander: 'peligro! rotando'
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, listen, better if you put the gentoo in, unload his schedule some.
ascii_lander: i'ma get a boot stick in there also
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i played 100% of my cards correctly, thus far, prolly will have 2 ~empty days even
mircea_popescu: next you know, he's sucked through manifold, spends them in hospital.
diana_coman: ascii_lander, did you publish anywhere the recipe you intend to follow for this?
ascii_lander: inside dc proper, i fear nuffin, i spent moar time than i care to admit, in'em
ascii_lander: diana_coman: i published the 'seekrit ingredient' (the use flags for banning crapola) and then danielpbarron turned it into a proper recipe
ascii_lander: danielpbarron wouldja happen to have the link handy ?
ascii_lander is on a battle-weary x60, dun have the bookmarksen
mircea_popescu: in any case we have to reconcile and converge these two trunks.
mircea_popescu: trinque, link me again to your recipe, what was it ?
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: trinque has the superior item, it oughta supercede the trad gentoo
ascii_lander somewhat distracted, first class chixx
danielpbarron: ascii_lander, my recipe (on old blog) http://meadow.danielpbarron.com/2017/gentoo-eulora-quest/ ; but really trinque's is better
ascii_lander: danke schon, danielpbarron
ascii_lander: danielpbarron: trinque's is musltronic, which is Teh Fyootoor but gotta make sure that mircea_popescu's proggy runs on this.
danielpbarron: also my recipe almost certainly doesn't work anymore, but it's a good starting point
ascii_lander: oh incidentally !!
ascii_lander discovered that the rack in fact contains a remotely-operable power distributor
ascii_lander: seems like we can live like white men indeed
ascii_lander: (i.e. remotely cycle boxen)
ben_vulpes: whoa nifty
ascii_lander: one fewer item i gotta put in the next crate
ascii_lander: ( it was on the list )
douchebag: !!up KellieCx
deedbot: KellieCx voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: B0181F095A36FE3FCA512AE9ABE341A534817776 registered as KellieCx.
diana_coman: I have ascii_lander's cribsheet at least but after the previous experience with trinque's stuff I'm almost sure there'll be some fresh trouble
trinque: you can still use the script as literature, but no, my cuntoo installer is not done.
diana_coman: trinque, and it's very useful as literature for sure
ascii_lander: diana_coman: if you like i can even produce a straight copy of dulap's gentoo, which you can later customize.
trinque: ascii_lander: can I direct your attention to #pizarro, or BingoBoingo's?
diana_coman: to recap: I have ascii_lander's cribsheet; danielpbarron's old recipe; trinque's script
ascii_lander: trinque: BingoBoingo is occupied
diana_coman: ascii_lander, sounds tempting but... what is dulap's gentoo?
ascii_lander: diana_coman: conventional (drepperistic)
deedbot: 28C5818B5E149FCDA63E1731CAA99B9A7CBAF619 registered as Melissalmao.
diana_coman: it's a pity there isn't really time now to experiment with this machine as the server has been down for long enough already, ugh;
ascii_lander: diana_coman: hence why i suggest to have what i'm eating.
ascii_lander: ( luckily you have exactly same type of box. )
trinque: diana_coman: did you want a gentoo build?
trinque did one for mircea_popescu, wouldn't be opposed to doing one for you.
diana_coman: ascii_lander, ah, I see; I was puzzling re box type, searching for dulap's description to compare
ascii_lander: lemme know what you need for this, trinque
ascii_lander: other than kvm
ascii_lander: diana_coman: you an' i have exactly same box, with the exception where you have 2 ps, and moar disk
diana_coman: trinque, ascii_lander offered to do it; if it's not done by pizarro there's at least more useful experience for me to do it anyway
ascii_lander: ( incidentally lemme know how you want the disks arrayed; if this were mine, i'd put them in raid5 , using 4tb to yield 3tb of storage, plus using 5th 1tb as hotspare. )
trinque: ah k
ascii_lander: i have no objection to doing it; but i also have no objection if somebody else wants to.
trinque will back away, splitting attention, will bbl
mircea_popescu: Melissalmao, c3354a50. half hour --- starting nao.
mircea_popescu: KellieCx, 80d4b66c same deal.
mircea_popescu: aite, seems like the dulap clone is the correct approach here. we'll maybe look at moar cuntoo stuff later.
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, plox to clone it in at your leisure.
diana_coman: ascii_lander, raid5 as described sounds good; go ahead then and put the same as on dulap
ascii_lander: ok will do exactly this
ascii_lander: you can always rebuild/tweak later
ascii_lander: and potentially once moar disks are brought over, can use your 'spare' box as a staging box
ascii_lander: ( ascii_lander's cargo included 1) dulapIII 2) dulapIII-spare 3) smg 4) smg-spare
diana_coman: ok; if there's anything else - I'll be around for about half hour more now and then tomorrow (in ~9 hours from now)
ascii_lander: let's pessimistically shoot for smg box to be inbiznis by end of tomorrow
ascii_lander discovered that some things take a while in orcistan: hour march to get to cable shop, plodding behind flocks of zombies, then hr back..
douchebag: !!up KellieCx
deedbot: KellieCx voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: KellieCx, way too low light. look at http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ and redo.
mircea_popescu: !!pay Melissalmao 0.02
mircea_popescu: let's try and get the first one right shall we!
mircea_popescu: eh, nevermind that.
mircea_popescu: Melissalmao your first one was way too blurry, you missed half the face in the 2nd.
mircea_popescu: do it properly!
mircea_popescu: not any better.
douchebag: some people are just losers
douchebag: Much better.
ben_vulpes: is it though?
ben_vulpes ducks back out
douchebag: Well it's not blurry and I can see her face
mircea_popescu: a blurry gaze for the books, huh.
mircea_popescu: how goes Melissalmao ?
mircea_popescu: are you high on anything ?
Melissalmao: A little, yourself?
mircea_popescu: not really.
mircea_popescu: well, myself, but i'm getting inured.
Melissalmao: what does inured mean?
mircea_popescu: used to it, like tolerance.
Melissalmao: I know that all too well myself
mircea_popescu: so what's your favourite trip ?
mircea_popescu: what's ex ?
mircea_popescu: ecstasy ?
mircea_popescu: do you rave too ?
Melissalmao: no not really i have before but i wouldnt call myself a raver
mircea_popescu: so what do you do with yourself ?
Melissalmao: im a sex worker
mircea_popescu: but besides that ? or is it one of those things, like being religious, takes up the whole day.
Melissalmao: it goes on until the phone stops ringing its a hell of a lifestyle
mircea_popescu was always impressed by how similar really devout religious people, doing the whole purity thing, and really dedicated whores, doing the whole thing, drugs etc actually are.
mircea_popescu: Melissalmao, got a pimp and everything ?
mircea_popescu: how much does he get ?
mircea_popescu: !!rate Melissalmao 1 working girl.
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2018/a-conversation-between-darwin-fish-and-mircea-popescu/ << Daniel P. Barron - A conversation between Darwin Fish and Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, it's aluded. to elude is to avoid.
Melissalmao: well no amount in particular we pay for eachothers shit though
mircea_popescu: so basically it's like an arthouse/halfwayhouse w/e, there's a bunch of you girls living together and trying to make ends meet ?
Melissalmao: something like that
douchebag: mircea_popescu: I think it's worth mentioning that both Melissalmao and Brittt are recieving the same issue with deedbot as earlier
mircea_popescu: Melissalmao, so it's not really a pimp, more like the house mother ?
mircea_popescu: douchebag, somewhat suspicious, as it told me "<deedbot> mircea_popescu paid Melissalmao 0.02". is their key no good or something ?
mircea_popescu: aite, we'll see what trinque says about this when he has a moment. in the meanwhile Melissalmao Brittt dun fret, your cents are safe.
Melissalmao: she calls herself a pimp but shes not like most pimps
mircea_popescu: is it thatbitchlola or different girl altogether ?
douchebag: it is
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, http://danielpbarron.com/2018/a-conversation-between-darwin-fish-and-mircea-popescu/#identifier_4_28 < technically it was CCs, ie, plural of credit card.
mircea_popescu: !!up Melissalmao
mircea_popescu: Melissalmao, if you want to hang around, you can voice yourself (say !!up to deedbot in pm).
Melissalmao: okay hehe
danielpbarron: fxd ty
mircea_popescu: incidentally, if any lord wants to sample lola's wares, i'll pay for your chicago hooker.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, so is it your inference the wireguard fellow got bothered by the wrongness of it all / jealous / whatever ?
danielpbarron: possibly, or the devil caused him to in order to disrupt it
mircea_popescu: seemed to me the interplay was actually productive.
mircea_popescu: ie, each convo was better jointly than it'd have been on its own.
danielpbarron: maybe it was, but the purpose of my post is to highlight just you and darwin
mircea_popescu: i dun see a problem.
ckang: hello all
douchebag: h ckang
mircea_popescu: hey ckang. got more frukr beauties queued up ?
ckang: oh just reading, wireguard guy got upset?
ckang: ill ping him in a few and see if everything is okay
mircea_popescu: nah, don't pester the guy.
trinque: seems like for some reason some of these aren't making it through the registration process
trinque: !!up Melissalmao
trinque: balance will show now.
Melissalmao: okay <3
ben_vulpes: https://gizmodo.com/meet-the-woman-who-leads-nightwatch-google-s-internal-1825227132 << haw haw, google 'cmu alum' attempts to get homomorphic encryption into production, discovers upon review by people who actually write instead of wank^H^Hx theoretic that it'd take more horsepower than google has worldwide
ben_vulpes: scuse me 'cmu *cryptography* alum'
ben_vulpes: probably same programs that harp on quantum decryption and steadfastly ignore their own failures to produce constanttime encryptulators.
douchebag: trinque: don't forget about Brittt too
douchebag: don't mean to bother you, just reminding
trinque: nah ty, will do that one too
lobbes: phew, killer logs today
lobbes esp. loved the parallel running convos of mp/wiresharkguy with mp/atruechurchguy
mircea_popescu is unswampable.
ascii_lander: aaaaaaand reporting live from inside the fuckin' rack!!
ascii_lander: trinque: plz try an' ping yer box ?
ascii_lander: it pings here
ascii_lander: and in fact pung here since we walked in noprob
ascii_lander: aaaaaaand the rockchippen are live
ascii_lander: aaaaaaaand ipkvm is live
mircea_popescu: lol this guy
lobbes: life all around! congrats pizarro folx
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, your pingbacks made it alright too!
trinque: cannot ping.
ascii_lander: not congrats yet, apparently ^
ascii_lander: trinque: which ones are you ?
trinque: .250 (dead) and .251 (live)
ascii_lander: both ping here
trinque: .250 has SSDs
ascii_lander: any other ports open on these that i can try ?
ascii_lander: ( possibly 250 just dun like icmp ? )
trinque: nah pinged before. also can't ssh
ascii_lander: it accepts ssh attempt from here
trinque: then not routing from outside world?
ascii_lander: something peculiar !!
ascii_lander: did somebody dupe .250 ??
ascii_lander: cuz that would do it
ascii_lander: and i do happen to know that it wasn't me
trinque: yeah I speculated that in #pizarro
trinque: I can indeed ping 250 from 251, inside that net
ascii_lander: let's move the proceeding to #p
trinque: aye aye
ascii_lander: we will at some point post photos of, e.g., rooftop at night where we drmengele'd the mains distributor panel bought from orcshop
ascii_lander: diana_coman, mircea_popescu : i'ma bring up yer box nao
ckang: !!up jaxxie
deedbot: jaxxie voiced for 30 minutes.
jaxxie: mircea_popescu: here for picture.
lobbes: !!v B9A2A84E0F515EDC426BFE17C5DC57841A0EEDC8330DB33BCCD3543D17ECC6D7
mircea_popescu: jaxxie, da91029. half hour.
ascii_lander: all 6 rockboxen ready for lease btw.
ascii_lander: mod6, ben_vulpes , & prospective userz ^^^
ascii_lander: we now adjourn for the evening, rack-wise, gotta eat, sleep
ascii_lander: smg box i expect is to be brought into service early tomorrow.
ascii_lander: once i can get hold of a bootable-sumthing that knows about the raid.
lobbes: any pricing info out on those rockchip boxen (I, too, may have missed but dun see anything)? >> http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-4-8#327990
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-08 04:28 PeterL: Oh, I see the question got asked but I don't see an answer in the logs? http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-4-8#327411
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-07 05:33 Vexual: any idea on cost to rent an rockchip board?
mod6: lobbes: we're workin on that.
mod6: there are only six, seems like they're gonna go quickly.
lobbes: I'm probably too poor, but if it is in my range I'll most likely try and grab one for trb-ing
lobbes: my current trb box I'm planning to run at home is a mystery box someone gave me; troubleshooting all the hardware issues I keep uncovering are delaying things. Would be nice to have two eventually anyhow
jaxxie: I can't find a black one
mod6: shinohai: happy belated!
mircea_popescu: jaxxie, get all your face in there ; get all the string in there.
ckang: i told her to get a black marker and face but she had to run off
ckang: !!up roxann3
deedbot: roxann3 voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: at least she's pretty
roxann3: mircea_popescu: here for same too
mircea_popescu: roxann3, 59266286. same half hour.
mircea_popescu: ckang, or she couldyou know, write under rahter than over tattoo.
trinque apparently missed a whole bunch of pretty ones, saw instead trucker whores on parade
mircea_popescu: trinque, theoretically women are more clustered towards the mediocre. in practice however...
trinque: when american goes bad it goes allthewaybad
ckang: yea she got an earful, may have scared her off lol
trinque was fucking this chick for a while, real cute, but had same-position chest tattoo
trinque: hers was a ribbon tied up like a present, extremely poorly done
trinque would stare at the thing the whole time, eventually lost interest. "that ain't coming off or getting covered"
ckang: least it wasnt a coverup
ckang: those can look way worse
mod6: Here comes the flood.
mod6: !!v 740D55B917DD09C3FED463BBF78CC2380E471667B8167F5FF7C126CB045E3EBA
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of mircea_popescu from 6 to 6 << Met IRL. MPEx, Trilema, S.NSA, S.MG: Father of The Most Serene Republic.
mod6: !!v CF327512C35E25FC0155F9A35E6664E8CE74EE3F37DE0F396C46E1FC2A6AD571
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of ben_vulpes from 5 to 5 << Met IRL. The Lord of the Well, Bitcoin Foundation Co-Chair, Pizarro Manager
mod6: !!v 00A4C202C9DF9C961CCAA3DDFFF7F99DEBDB71650311F398C0B8E303C9A314D6
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of hanbot from 4 to 4 << Met IRL. The Lady Falconeer, Tester of all things TMSR~
mod6: !!v C851B6EC714F5421E76F0B60B51D0DD7F9F27BBC0DD9F17654F0DE85603A8A71
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of jurov from 4 to 4 << Three years of service as The Bitcoin Foundation Treasurer
mod6: !!v 57E8CA238AB07F914E7796B2AF4A11D8DC8A2E978035261C66A05FE47CDF6B69
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of asciilifeform from 4 to 5 << Met IRL. Lord Admiral. S.NSA, FUCKGOATS, Pizarro: Shiva
mod6: !!v C7E456293CC3EDDE50561A065B9D0FC08A0E5FC92FB008B05B3CADC6157E6937
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of trinque from 3 to 4 << Master of the Rolls, deedbot
mod6: !!v V
mod6: !!v 09EA11B0A4743A7F86F7A79072505DA58081B7B05850CDD2112351966BD67D82
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of danielpbarron from 2 to 3 << The learned Trishop
mod6: !!v 4B97876D551E532CAF4C1220C58C7E41F915AB6F64518C69C196C0EADA820C62
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of diana_coman from 2 to 4 << Marquess Eulora, Eulora CTO
mod6: !!v 6D62BB334504EADC72C5A45B3F79A3C0BC98F7415A4ABC5C796129D3F38B270F
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of BingoBoingo from 1 to 5 << Lord Goebbels, qntra, Pizarro System Administrator
mod6: !!v 737538AF79B0609AD31A82BBFFB6B9BE622ED4B2B10ED83D881A5CC4076FE795
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of phf from 1 to 4 << Lord Chancellor, btcbase.org, logs, vtools
mod6: !!v FB4FDC9D14879B1AB911738FA1144A9C39C54AA41EA69E0157A5C88651DB6168
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of btchero from 4 to 1 << Original rating dating back 6 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v 292B8363199732EBA43A83E8DCF1F43ED0549A2C2CD1BDC6021AF45B88C71E86
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of glooboy from 4 to 1 << Original rating dating back 5 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v 2BA3C77FD169226E2E3FB9E6B826067A80A80856E1931A6B7364DE05FA39BA1A
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of cory from 3 to 1 << Original rating dating back 6 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v 68C5260ECDFE08D79C714DAFFF03C996EE3128348984E01164C364526627DBF3
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of mike_c from 3 to 1 << Met IRL. Former Lord, off doing other things.
mod6: !!v D6BCC5D9A708947A7046F4D16964C54488D129CF5DD32D6FBED5A070537244BD
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of paulzag from 3 to 1 << Original rating dating back 6 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v A35E56105B164A9B1615498C95D1C25617102E10DFE147ED9FA6F40549F38AD3
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of pho from 3 to 1 << Original rating dating back 6 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v DA3517780EBF8C3758BAEB0D19ADC2A9642D4E1872A87258A2750EE4AA7D7940
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of imsaguy from 2 to 1 << Original rating dating back 6 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v 4DDB595B7B65D4F955DA8B63518D34576AB18A59DA75B7A1A8C738CEA97326D7
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of pete_dushenski from 2 to 1 << Runs two TRB nodes. Has bitcoin related blog.
mod6: !!v 4F054F9FD2649032C88D0D6C6CAA566A8214B8B5CD33275240F982CC340206AA
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of sgornick from 2 to 1 << Original rating dating back 6 years. Have not heard from in long time.
mod6: !!v 155231619BB6017871F4D1C1E5BCAC614DD5C1B327A29D9A0C048713D427ED8B
deedbot: mod6 updated rating of davout from 2 to 1 << Met IRL, #trilema
mod6: !!v 4745ECDFB4B0D92A3F969FE1CED2D90EDFB2B5A7CDD5F3807BECD5471FE22690
deedbot: mod6 unrated kakobrekla.
mod6: !!v E3B4EB5538E7BA483D1F39E460067DEDDE3EB8988448B419DF030F49A3576BD3
deedbot: mod6 unrated smickles.
mod6: !!v 19BDFF5C0EB9170467CCAD4FBEA277A8FA160F6F46DB37176C3BA6B8C625796D
deedbot: mod6 unrated thestringpuller.
mod6: !!v E9F75F9E6D61F7E8836F475C54E700B4E15675BCEAB52C2BFD3967ED86629987
deedbot: mod6 unrated funkenstein_.
mod6: !!v C999969A6CEBD2842768CB7A1FE7C108924530092C902D55A33E05B88EF9937A
deedbot: mod6 unrated pinkposixpxe.
mod6: !!v 02D057C088F2632495617A512A2D9A35CF891BE0FD00E8952B56AD7886E59DB6
deedbot: mod6 unrated punkman.
mod6: !!v 8B1EEFAE03346FC70DD3824D4E44F711BC882AD2AD7603F4BFE580667282D49F
deedbot: mod6 unrated apocalyptic.
mod6: !!v B77B05BF8823D2B9B985531AD06E9866A11EC625D2F2626D09905A918AD6BD96
deedbot: mod6 unrated artifexd.
mod6: !!v 50F62C5D7CDAB5341AE220A3FA236D5E313D3368D2F496CF2E6FA5E4A90E7354
deedbot: mod6 unrated assbot.
mod6: !!v 90D235373A73F90DAFD7AD5ADD48AA79DA48832A31C400A206E83B8DBF43CCCA
deedbot: mod6 rated lobbes 1 << Lobbesbot, #trilema
mircea_popescu: !!pay roxann3 0.02
mircea_popescu: !!up kendraB
deedbot: kendraB voiced for 30 minutes.
kendraB: here of picture
mircea_popescu: kendraB, b2056c91. you got... half hour.
lobbes: !!v 19B8E1A224D9F9961713C9C89307A28786D3557868D1A7375B01FDE73F96AF9B
deedbot: Invoiced diana_coman 0.00000096 << Auctionbot Service Q1 2018 (http://deedbot.org/deed-516215-2.txt)
lobbes: !!v B527A84AF232D3EE394C008B99EDCAA146781DA718B5E841817E045DB1677ABE
deedbot: Invoiced Birdman 0.00000096 << Auctionbot Service Q1 2018 (http://deedbot.org/deed-516215-1.txt)
esthlos: hanbot et al: my mp-wp seems borked: when trying to make a new post, the "tab" to switch to raw HTML is greyed out and does nothing, and HTML tags are ignored. Also, the visual editing features aren't showing at all. Any ideas?
esthlos: I should add: there's no toolbar to edit text, and nothing is being written to the log
lobbes: esthlos I feel like danielpbarron just resolved a similar issue >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1800429
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 20:24 danielpbarron: right now i'm trying to figure out why the pretty urls thing broke my edit-post thing to where the handy "insert link/blockquote" buttons disappeared
ascii_lander: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800708 << the stock disk is 128GB, lobbes , toosmall for trb
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 01:12 lobbes: I'm probably too poor, but if it is in my range I'll most likely try and grab one for trb-ing
ckang: !!up kendraB
deedbot: kendraB voiced for 30 minutes.
ckang: she couldnt figure out how to upload
esthlos: lobbes: excellent, thank you
ckang: !!up veronicalol
deedbot: veronicalol voiced for 30 minutes.
lobbes: ascii_lander: ah damn. ty for info
ascii_lander: once we can get moar ssd over here, will start to offer options
ascii_lander: but 1) rockchip will prolly never be an idea trb box 2) wakeup folx installing 77th trb in the rack ! trb dun do much good with N nodez hanging off 1 fiber.
trinque: so... how did the tattoo end up one direction, and the numbers the other?
trinque: kendraB: ^
kendraB: what do you mean ?
kendraB: I wrote around the tattoo
mircea_popescu: !!pay kendraB 0.02
mircea_popescu: veronicalol, 4632a32e.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, ascii_lander the blockchain isn't even 50gb yet. so it'll work for years.
trinque: kendraB: I mean your tattoo's lettering goes one way, and your writing the other way.
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: indices
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: srsly log in to yer node and size it up, du -h .bitcoin
ascii_lander: as for only the bloxx -- mine weigh 150+G
mircea_popescu: darn i was a degree of magnitude off
ascii_lander: 217G total mass of the dir.
mircea_popescu: trinque, im guessing it's in a mirror ?
lobbes: well, she'd have had to write either the string or have had the tattoo mirrored when creating
lobbes: i.e. lettering mirrored on one but not the other
kendraB: tattoo is such it can be read in a mirror
lobbes: ascii_lander: agreed on 1) and 2), but still, as a secondary node may as well have one than not eh?
lobbes: my aim is to have > 1 trb node in > 1 physical locations
mircea_popescu: nah, rox notrly useful for this application.
ascii_lander: lobbes: iirc current trb won't even ever simult-connect to 2+ nodes nearby in ip space
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: yea verily, this is possibly the 1 commonplace thing where they definitely won't shine
ascii_lander: trb lives and dies by i/o bw
ascii_lander: and this box has late'90s-era i/o bw.
trinque: that's too bad about not connecting to nearby nodes
trinque will have a synced node in there before long
trinque: ascii_lander: not even with -connect ?
mircea_popescu: trinque, im not even sure it's so bad. spreads the load.
ascii_lander: trinque: iirc not
ascii_lander: it was prolly an anti-sibyl measure originally
mircea_popescu: think about it, if 500 nodes want to talk to bbistan, each local trb will talk to 500/n
trinque: I just mean for initial stand-up of somebody's node
mircea_popescu: so they just pick one local node.
trinque: makes sense to spread out connections normally, totally.
mircea_popescu: not what i mean. here it is : if you have n nodes in ip a.b.c.*, each node from outside will pick ONE a.b.c.* node to talk to.
mircea_popescu: resulting in this situation where if a large k nodes wnat to talk to the n group, each node in the n group will see k/n inbound connections on average.
mircea_popescu: so adding more nodes in bbistan helps, somewhat. it doesn't help the pipe, but it spreads the load among boxes.
ascii_lander: current trb (not speaking of my 'wires' attempt) doesn't give you this behaviour
mircea_popescu: how not ?
ascii_lander: if a node it tried to connect to, failed to answer, iirc it skips to a random node from the cache
ascii_lander: which is overwhelimingly heathen
mircea_popescu: the only guarantee is you won't have outside node talking to 2 locals.
ascii_lander: there is not , in traditional trb, a 'talk to these N nodes' mode.
ascii_lander: ('-connect' doesn't do quite this; it makes own node a slave-only)
mircea_popescu: admitting ad absurdum that there's a large number of nodes only knowing this set of peers.
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: right
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: aha, then would
ckang: !!up driscole
deedbot: driscole voiced for 30 minutes.
ckang: another for you mircea_popescu
trinque: kendraB: so when you were getting this tattoo, how it looked in a mirror took precedence over how it... looked as you stand there?
ckang: trinque: ive know several ppl to do that
ckang: the reason is who sees a tattoo the most
ckang: you do, in the mirror
ckang: why would you want to read a tattoo every time you get out of the shower backwards
ckang: if its on your arm however thats a bit different...
trinque: heh, even the crackwhore's "bobby" was the right direction
ckang: i imagine thats so "bobby" can read it
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 20:03 mircea_popescu: you know, "show me the light, by all means, but later"
ben_vulpes: ckang: mirroring tattoos on self turns the narcicissm to eleven
ckang: ben_vulpes: im not trying to justify it, but ive seen it before
ckang: im not a huge fan of tats, they look bad with time
ckang: but its mostly been little short things like 'stay strong' or some personal reminder
trinque: that bobby pic (with presumably ex-dood's hand in frame) is fanfic-worthy
ckang: so what brave man is going to sample her warez?