Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-07-19 | 2016-07-21 →
ben_vulpes: ` << incidentally, renders servers nigh-unusable for other purposes.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 00:16 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: cpanel is useful for lazy idjits like me to ban ips, make back-ups, check traffic figs, and so on and so forth. it might not be lynx-friendly but i'm also unpersuaded that it's 'evil that must burn tonight'.
ben_vulpes: go, try to remove cpanel from a machine.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha!
asciilifeform: i tried, failed, had to ask for whole thing to be thermonuked and reformatted.
ben_vulpes: i recall this, had my own near identical experience lol
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 01:16 mats: and whined to me about having his good naem tarnished on hacka nyooz
ben_vulpes waves to the forever-tarnished robert viragh
mircea_popescu: mats 40% tax on 10.5 dollars an hour 8 hours a day for a year's workdays
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The actual unemployment rate in the USA. -
thestringpuller: charlie shrem is out of jail
shinohai: <<< maybe he can show Roger Ver all the new tricks he learned in the Pen, give him first reacharound
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 09:33 thestringpuller: charlie shrem is out of jail
Framedragger: << well, it's a cheap, dirty, and very quick way of getting repl with $whatever-data-of-interest, functions for graphical plotting, data analysis etc at your fingertips. it's very easy to experiment with data, *save everything and share stuff*. some papers are drafted this way afaik. for example:
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:39 mircea_popescu: << what's the advantage i dun get it ?
Framedragger: but i'm not trying to be a big advocate of $x here, mind
Framedragger: << i've a $10 vps, no complaints, i did the initial ipv4 probing off of that. didn't run any i/o etc benchmarks tho. any particular questions (i can run some benchmark if you want)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:36 pete_dushenski: has anyone here used ? please to share experience if so
Framedragger: << okay; but deciding not to use $tool because it's used by $enemy bloody well sounds like one to me. sure, you can call this a set of (very) useful heuristics. but if this sophistry is accepted, then any ideology is a set of heuristics (usually but not always very bad ones, but the latter is a separate point). ftr though, i'm not saying that sometimes there aren't good reasons for avoiding somet
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 12:17 mircea_popescu: << there is no $ideology per se ; tmsr is principally characterized by lack of ideology. everyone else has one, however, and they're often patently insane and amazingly complex.
Framedragger: hing like the devil avoids the cross; e.g. the recent chinese wifi shit discussion; *any mobile ever, in existence*; etc. :)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i dun get it, do you have to first upload your data ?
mircea_popescu: every computer (well, except for windows and apple i guess ? but they're not computers) has a repl built in as some sort of bash. in most cases you also have both perl and python out of the box. how could it possibly be faster to first upload a chunk of data to some webserver somewhere ?
mircea_popescu: not to mention that you almost always also have, or can easily get a db, and after an import you can then sql repl.
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: [Qntra] Poor Wi-Fi Hygeine Snags Data At RNC -
shinohai: thx BB
asciilifeform: '“I vote Trump! free Internet”. Approximately 1.6 Gb's of data was exposed, with the report stating that 68.3% of users had their identities or other sensitive information exposed upon connection. Nearly 25% of the users browsed porn sites, while only a little over 5% used the connections to play Pokemon Go' << such brilliance!111
asciilifeform: << Framedragger point to actual instance of this ? in the logz ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 10:53 Framedragger: << okay; but deciding not to use $tool because it's used by $enemy bloody well sounds like one to me. sure, you can call this a set of (very) useful heuristics. but if this sophistry is accepted, then any ideology is a set of heuristics (usually but not always very bad ones, but the latter is a separate point). ftr though, i'm not saying that sometimes there aren't goo
asciilifeform: << surprised he hasn't yet shown up here to offer cheeeeeap death ray!
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 09:33 thestringpuller: charlie shrem is out of jail
asciilifeform: (iirc he did, right before the jail)
asciilifeform: << he wanted a repl that can shit graphics. which is something that to this very day is ~monopoly of a gargantuan closed commercial item, 'mathematica'. except that most 'i want a graphical repl' folks don't know this, and think that their imitations (which are roughly what glbse was to mpex) are the real thing.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 12:23 mircea_popescu: every computer (well, except for windows and apple i guess ? but they're not computers) has a repl built in as some sort of bash. in most cases you also have both perl and python out of the box. how could it possibly be faster to first upload a chunk of data to some webserver somewhere ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda why we want a proper tex/svg wwwthing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, google also has some sort of api where you GET it data and it sends back a graph. i recall bitbet using it.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:33 asciilifeform: picture 'sorry you can't use grep, is down'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 13:42 mircea_popescu: anyway, google also has some sort of api where you GET it data and it sends back a graph. i recall bitbet using it.
mircea_popescu: still, read-evaluate-print :D
asciilifeform: << the funny thing is, this was made, in 1980s, at considerable expense, it was called 'NeWS'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 13:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda why we want a proper tex/svg wwwthing.
asciilifeform: but it suffered from the crippling limitations of the c-machine, and withered away.
asciilifeform: (likewise, '80s hardware was not quite up to the task of the rendering)
asciilifeform: the simpler, braindead x11, survived.
asciilifeform: 'Fri, 5 Feb 88... The astonishing baroqueness of X is the greatest threat to the general sucess of UNIX to have come along since System V hit the streets. If you try to give an X system to a real human being, not a computer hacker masquerading as a normal person, they will croak. If X doesn't instantly burn out their eyes and brain, causing them to throw their UNIX box out the nearest high window, it will drive them straight into the
asciilifeform: arms of the Macintosh II. With the toolbox under AUX, all the windowy programs on the MacII will have a clear, understable, and universal user interface. With other alternatives, we face the very real prospect of each window (program) having a different user interface. That, friends, will be the death of UNIX. '
mircea_popescu: i'd think the 2nd item is more relevant here/
jurov: imo TeX is quite bad example for this, it's not designed for realtime rendering, depends on several passes for layout
asciilifeform: jurov: it is ill-designed in 1,001 ways.
asciilifeform: was very much a crude and desperate hack. knuth suffered from idiot typesetters who 'what's one exponent more or less'
asciilifeform: human typesetters ~had~ to be expelled from mathematics.
asciilifeform: and so they were. but at the cost of having this other pile of shit.
mircea_popescu: jurov multipass is no good for real time ?
mircea_popescu: also, the idea isn't to "realtime" ; the idea is to take user input and spit out html i think
asciilifeform: fuck html.
asciilifeform: and the browser.
mircea_popescu: fine. in plai ntext.
mircea_popescu: the idea being that the server does not serve the result of the process directly.
asciilifeform: i thought the idea was 'sane gui'
mircea_popescu: (author types shit in) -> (blog processes it into form) -> (server serves form)
asciilifeform: a concept which pointedly has no room for half-second delays after every keystroke
jurov: mircea_popescu: ever used proggy that was redrawing everything after every keystroke?
mircea_popescu: i don't want any guy at all. even now i <em> by hand rather than clicking the fucking buttons
asciilifeform: 'gui' is not equivalent in meaning to 'microshit word'
mircea_popescu: i want to have alphabetic notation. such as : graph-this-so-and-so,1,1,4,this.csv
mircea_popescu: i have no problem with typing ::sum:: either or w/e
mircea_popescu: and i absolutely do not have alf's mental issue where i can't think of math in words.
asciilifeform: original thread which led us here concerned... charts
mircea_popescu: yes. exactly.
asciilifeform: go and represent the duplicated-sshkeys thing in.. words.
mircea_popescu: and ftr, auto-repl is for the dogs. i want proper repl : string evaluated when I say, either by clicking the preview button or typing enter or w/e.
mircea_popescu: fuck that stupid ass google auto-search as you type idiocty
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you want to publish something you can't say in words you're part of the problem.
asciilifeform: this is lunacy.
asciilifeform: do we have to do the mega-thread again?
asciilifeform: or can just say we did. 'see l0gz.'
mircea_popescu: omfg what the fuck do you think "fits in head" means.
mircea_popescu: you can see logs all you fucking want, they're all WORDS.
asciilifeform: i sorta wonder how mircea_popescu draws the line at 'this much notation is enough.' i.e., why he does not demand that phuctor stats be spelled out in whole words rather than using arabic digits.
asciilifeform: is it because this set of chars happened to exist on underwood typewriter ?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what your parents did to you people, but this is unseemly. first fucking task of the urchin in an intellectual household is to learn how to put his shit in words.
mircea_popescu: 3 yos point "dat!!!" but 5yo is expected to be able to say "the item resting atop the history of fucking in the roman empire please, what is it?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fits-in-head means that i get to huffmanize TO THE MAX
asciilifeform: which means, yes, integral signs, matrices, tensors, whatever notation i define ~for the occasion~ even.
mircea_popescu: if you can't say what it is, you have no fucking idea what it is, and it's not currently fit in your head.
mircea_popescu: the criteria is any notation i choose, not any notation you choose.
asciilifeform: i can say. and, if it isn't likely to be in the reader's huffman dictionary already - do say.
mircea_popescu: much like kids or bureaucrats aren't to be allowed to decide how to measure their performance.
asciilifeform: sorta what literacy means - to have the huffman table in your head.
mircea_popescu: so then what's the problem.
asciilifeform: if you cannot read integral, you are not literate.
mircea_popescu: make the machine make it.
asciilifeform: would mircea_popescu also say that machine should transliterate the greek texts for you ?
mircea_popescu: russian, certainly
asciilifeform: 'midnight commander' does.
mircea_popescu: (and most of my russian is in latin alphabet, ftr)
asciilifeform: (srsly)
asciilifeform: it will actually crap out translit when you hit f3 ('view file') if the terminal doesn't have cyrillic.
asciilifeform: the only proggy i've ever encountered which did.
mircea_popescu: cuz properly made.
asciilifeform: at any rate i have 0 problem with this.
asciilifeform: what i do have a problem with is 'stop using integral signs, spell it out'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's machine can turn it into sanskrit if he likes.
mircea_popescu: so i guess you can have a fat 8 lines of buttons in the mp-wp thing ; and i'll continue to type tags in directly.
asciilifeform: lel who said i wanted buttons ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile : i want a tag to turn numbers into images ; which i arbitrarily call svg ; and i want a tag to turn strings into scientific notation (which does not JUST mean math, i want chemistry also.)
mircea_popescu: which i arbitrarily call tex.
asciilifeform: how does the thing on pediwikia work ?
asciilifeform: they seem to have something like it
mircea_popescu: they import images.
asciilifeform: yes but iirc they get generated.
mircea_popescu: no idea.
mircea_popescu: but knowing the thing, they're probably stolen.
asciilifeform: and if you have the old mathtex plugin thing, they do not
asciilifeform: (machine w/out the plugin is painful to use if you ever try to copy/paste, you end up getting bitmaps)
asciilifeform: see, if i can't ~paste~ the equation from the viewer into my algebratron, and evaluate it, the system is broken.
mircea_popescu: ::2-propanol:: should yield that.
mircea_popescu: evidently, it doesn't.
asciilifeform: will mircea_popescu barf when a boojum turns up in the massive iupac rule set this imports ?
mircea_popescu: i have no problem with the author replacing iupac.
asciilifeform: before laughing, consider, iupac gold standard program HUNG when fed chiralane for the first time.
asciilifeform: textbooks, i shit thee not, had to be junked
mircea_popescu: just as long as i can use it, i'm happy.
asciilifeform: (most weren't, simply ignored the news)
mircea_popescu: i'm even amenable to saying ::oc/C-COH-C::
asciilifeform: how do i benzol ring ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, ::oc/C-C-C*-C-C-C=/ ?
asciilifeform: (incidentally does mircea_popescu do his organic chem without filthy heathen 2d drawings ? as words ? )
asciilifeform: what's the / do ?
mircea_popescu: i find that especially in organic chemistry the drawings are counterproductive.
asciilifeform: has mircea_popescu ever actually done an organic synthesis ? in anger ?
mircea_popescu: "from organic chemistry take an item that is with carbons linked like so, where * can be anything ie free radical and = at the end links back to origin"
asciilifeform: of an item that wasn't in the book
mircea_popescu: ad hoc nonsense, but to illustrate the point.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes.
mircea_popescu: and i knew i failed within minutes specifiucally because not using the fucking pictures.
asciilifeform: y'know, the buggers actually ARE 3d (arguably 3.5d) ~physical objects~
mircea_popescu: but your brain doesn't beenfit from this.
asciilifeform: chemistry-in-words makes about the same amount of sense as cad in words.
mircea_popescu: your head works principally when its tendency to disregard natural complexity is well supported.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i used to pick architects by the criterion : "nice plan, now tell it to me".
mircea_popescu: most all of them reached for the paper, which i wouldn't give back.
mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised how much you find about an architect with this simple process.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu should have asked 'tell it to the builders instead of showing paper'
mircea_popescu: that sadly happens anyway.
mircea_popescu: but the point is : literacy is a skill not a blessing. does this architect know how to present the tree IN PROPERLY SORTED ORDER ?
mircea_popescu: if not, why not and what does this say about his mental organisation.
asciilifeform: this is not actually hard to do if you have the item in your head.
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: just as, close your eyes and describe your house to a stranger
asciilifeform: you can do it in ~arbitrary detail
mircea_popescu: and if you don't, i'm not underwriting the eventual wreck.
asciilifeform: but this is NOT the most convenient format for ~editing~ (transforming, etc) the thing.
mircea_popescu: it may not be the most convenient format for doodling,
mircea_popescu: doodles are.
asciilifeform: there is a reason why most folks play chess with a board vs with telephone
asciilifeform: (though many do, i have)
mircea_popescu: but then again stop fucking pushingyour doodles on other people. they are the exact equivalent of used condoms.
mircea_popescu: i do not want them. nobody does.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: find me a chemist - a practicing, professional organiker - who will not barf at this suggestion.
asciilifeform: or an architect who will agree to design a building ~wholly~ by putting words, sentences, to paper.
asciilifeform: or machinist who will accept an essay in lieu of a drawing.
mircea_popescu: find me a computer programmer - a practicing, professional wwwtronicist, who will not barf at v.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i found, what, six? seven ?
asciilifeform: they are here.
mircea_popescu: all the machining i ever had done was presented in essay form.
mircea_popescu: scandalous, i know.
asciilifeform: what was it ? 'cut me a rod 10cm in length and 3 in diameter' ?
asciilifeform: that ain't machining.
mircea_popescu: bout a paragraph's worth, but still.
asciilifeform: go and describe kalash bolt in words
asciilifeform: and have it machined.
mircea_popescu: for the sake of why not, i will.
asciilifeform: i would love to see result !
mircea_popescu: gimme 5 minutes.
mircea_popescu: gotta locate a drawing on THIS USELESS INTERNET
asciilifeform: possibly bad experiment, because machinist will cheat
asciilifeform: he will pull the ubiquitous drawing once he realizes what you described.
thestringpuller: the ethereum hard fork is making the VER-ified crowd go wild.
asciilifeform: and cut from that.
thestringpuller: incoming bitcoin hard fork FUD
thestringpuller: and drama
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: link ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform already disawoved ? fine.
mircea_popescu: i won't bother then.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: please don't assume that folks read reddit unprompted. i don't
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not necessarily - it is worthwhile experiment
asciilifeform: but i would like to read the essay first
mircea_popescu goes back to finishng his article.
asciilifeform: it should not mention the purpose of the part.
asciilifeform: (if mircea_popescu dun feel like doing this experiment, perhaps another mechanically-literate fella ? ben_vulpes ?)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i don't like posting reddit links as not to infect the channel
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: again, if you ~mention~ a thing that is happening solely on reddit, it is just the same as linking
asciilifeform: may as well link
asciilifeform: because i sure as fuck ain't going ~looking~ for it
asciilifeform: ty thestringpuller .
thestringpuller: that's 1 of many
asciilifeform: they fired already ?
asciilifeform: and, what, traditional-eth vanished immediately ?
asciilifeform: no one bothered to set off 'difficulty bomb' ? etc
thestringpuller: nope. it was all staged to act as fud to get Bitcoin to hardfork while creating FED-chain.
thestringpuller: Never though Ethereum would become more scandalous than paycoin.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you realise you're about the only reader ver actually has ?
phf: Framedragger: re ipython you could probably avoid all the discussions about right and wrong by simply doing and then presenting the result
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: Reading involves comprehension. I merely glance over it for lulz. I invest more focus on reading my comic books than Ver.
mircea_popescu: phf word.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller rotate the lolcow ? preferably towards something with tits ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well no one bothered to actually hold any of the tokens, either, so...
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i used to read amanda b johnson. But she is more for the children I think.
mircea_popescu: $google amanda b johnson
deedbot: << The Daily Decrypt (@TheDailyDecrypt) | Twitter | << Amanda B. Johnson | << Re: Amanda Billyrock is Amanda B. Johnson of The Daily Decrypt
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody no one ? not even on the battleship mircea_popescurora ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh what do i care what they do. the idea here is "o look, a scamcoin nobody holds managed to hardfork. this is about as relevant to bitcoin as guy soiling his pants and then washing them in the sink. I AM ROVER GER AND I THINK ITS TIME FOR BITCOIN TO! "
asciilifeform: why bother with the etherape thing only to release the mouse, still alive and well, from the mousetrap later ?
asciilifeform: i dun get it
shinohai: Mouse is dead, just doesn't know it yet.
phf: "i'm not dead yet"
asciilifeform: i suppose we can add it to the very very long list of items which are supposedly 'dead' but continue to live, spraying out ecological poison left and right that will take eons to clean up
mircea_popescu: wait, ~I~ should clean up ? what am i, someone's wife ?
asciilifeform: didn't say that anybody in particular ought to clean up.
asciilifeform: but am surprised that whoever took the bother of raping dao, did not follow through.
mircea_popescu: the boat issue goes way the fuck deeper than you realise.
mircea_popescu: you're wide open, in a security sense, because of this notion of cleanliness.
mircea_popescu: who in his right mind would close a hole in teh mit budget ? by all means, let them succeed and keep on succeeding, like they've won the war in the middle east.
asciilifeform: by not firing the control shot, dao raper allowed mit to close own hole.
thestringpuller: phf: "i'm not dead yet" << "i'm still alive"?
mircea_popescu: damn, i thought it was the black knight always triumphs.
phf: << i've been going through that exercise with code recently, where the original developer abandoned the project and there's a new maintainer. the exercise is to see how much of it is gendered pronouns. not surprisingly in many cases for every 1 bug fixed, there's a dozen entirely inconsequential commits. file shuffles, renames, code removals, README copyright updates, that sort of stuff. it's like nobody's
phf: writing code anymore
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:51 asciilifeform: if you subtract obvious drepperisms, 'comment commits' by genderfucks, etc. - you end up with circa-'90s mass every time.
asciilifeform: but 'I HAZ MILLION COMMITZ!121111'
asciilifeform: mega-cv, such hireable, etc.
phf: github streak
asciilifeform: and if you dun hire, 'DISCRIMINATION!1111'
asciilifeform: recall the 'flycheck' thread ?
asciilifeform: often there is ~whole project~ which consists of gendercommit.
asciilifeform: as in, it NEVER had the slightest legitimate reason to exist.
phf: "contributor to X, Y and Z, wasn't hired because obviously your organization is -ist"
asciilifeform: any of it.
asciilifeform: 'to examine a granfalloon, remove the skin of a toy balloon' (tm) (r) (vonnegut)
phf: i saw one of those operators in action yesterday, rme of clozure cl is doing "open office hours" on irc, and They come. "why are you using ccldoc instead of BIG PACKAGE NAME??? i want to change docs to BIG PACKAGE NAME for increased adoption" "why are there stale useless files? i want to remove them to improve maintainability" etc.
phf: so i push back on the guy, rme says "let's change subject", within minutes guy goes "it's late here i gotta go to sleep"
asciilifeform: i dun get why more folks won't declare total war.
asciilifeform: what does rme (who i know nothing of..) have to lose ?
asciilifeform: why 'change subject'
asciilifeform: why not 'die in a fire, scum'
phf: perhaps they don't see it as an existential threat
asciilifeform: decade ago - i could even see
asciilifeform: but today - one would have to be clinically stupid
asciilifeform: count, merely, the software packages that CANNOT BE USED today, that worked fine decade ago
asciilifeform: (xpdf...)
phf: well, they don't realize anything changed. decade ago a newbie was younger version of you, today with some chance a newbie might still be a younger version of you, but much more likely it's a person who never knew you had to wash hands after bathroom there purely to turn everything that you've built to shit
phf: also culture was gutted. it was acceptable to be an asshole a decade ago, now flaming someone on irc is equivalent of voting for trump.
asciilifeform: or xmms !
asciilifeform: or consider the contortions you must go through, to build geda
asciilifeform: or 1,001 other once-commonplace breads and butters of linux world
phf: progress!
phf: it's kind of funny that xmms got "replaced" with various itunes clones. i had at various points a very large partially pirated, partially salvaged, partially ripped collection of music and i'm convinced that there's nothing better than an fs level folder structure for managing music.
asciilifeform: i've been using command-line players ever since.
asciilifeform: not fun, but no real alternative.
asciilifeform: FUCK 'metadata in file', 'libraries', etc.
asciilifeform: the muppets who 'i Just Want just like itunes...' must be expelled from civilized computing.
asciilifeform: its continuation as whatever going concern is incompatible with their presence
phf: "oh your carefully annotated rip of late 80s punk tape of misc artists is all different artists. let me helpfully spawn a folder per track for you. a cover art scan? kek!"
asciilifeform: just as you cannot have a theatre that is also a dairy farm
phf: there was a pleasant notion of ownership with xmms, your playlist becomes an organic thing with a state, with most listened artists at the top, sequences organically created that align with your personal feel for harmony, etc. without bringing that whole aspy ocd file management into the equation. can't really do it with cli.
asciilifeform: aha, all i get is bash history
asciilifeform: sorta like going from 'bic' lighter to flint.
asciilifeform: yes, can haz fire...
mircea_popescu: ~same reason folks don't get laid.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:43 asciilifeform: i dun get why more folks won't declare total war.
asciilifeform: not same. total war, you can declare.. alone.
mircea_popescu: the space between not getting laid and noticing you're not getting laid is short. the space from the noticing to the fixing however...
phf: i have friends who still swear by winamp
asciilifeform: and win95 to go with it ?
mircea_popescu: i still swear by winamp!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on what do you run it? 'wine' ?
mircea_popescu: runs on os X!
asciilifeform: lel srsly?
mircea_popescu: one of my secret lulz, for all the extra holes apple gets in here, nobody goes "stfu winamp"
asciilifeform: and since when did mircea_popescu keep a crappletron in his fleet
asciilifeform: then again he probably has a vax also.
mircea_popescu: i keep gurlz!
asciilifeform: fair'nuff
phf: asciilifeform: you can get winamps of some vintage that still run on recent windows machines
asciilifeform: i've historically kept crapple boxen around for various occasions (commercial proggies for which no substitute exists, etc)
mircea_popescu: winamp is prolly the best example of niche owner.
asciilifeform: ida is ~the~ example
mircea_popescu: for as long as this "music library" thing was a thing, winamp was the thing for it.
trinque: runs great on wine too; I ran it there longer than on winderz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wait, we're counting proprietary shits now ?
trinque: 2.x vintage
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we're counting 'niche owners'
mircea_popescu: well then most of them will be "tivo software owns tivo niche"
mircea_popescu: the idea is, others could have ; haven't.
asciilifeform: ida is the example of 'sole inhabitant of niche'
mircea_popescu: not a niche, more like a cranny.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: used by pretty much 100% of reversers, auditors, etc. for whatever cpu ever manufactured.
mircea_popescu: << this "newbie was an earlier version of you" never fucking happened in reality. it was just the fashionable hash for the pipe the wikipedia-generation idiots were smoking.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:48 phf: well, they don't realize anything changed. decade ago a newbie was younger version of you, today with some chance a newbie might still be a younger version of you, but much more likely it's a person who never knew you had to wash hands after bathroom there purely to turn everything that you've built to shit
asciilifeform: ditto 0day hunters, etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in dispute is not the ownership part, but the niche part. it's not a niche!
asciilifeform: i have nfi what, then, is a niche.
asciilifeform: reversing is just as much a functional niche as 'music play'
asciilifeform: or 'drawing proggy'
mircea_popescu: ok fine!
mircea_popescu: mr "oh i'll never run someone's binary give me my ida!"
asciilifeform: hey i run virii
asciilifeform: used to do it, for a living, even.
asciilifeform: have entire room of machines devoted to same.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 15:38 asciilifeform: trinque: fact remains, if you think i'm gonna run a binary, ANYONE's binary, for whatever reason, yer smoking dope.
mircea_popescu: now what ? negrate for scam ???
asciilifeform: 'run' here shorthand for 'on battlestation'
asciilifeform: picture i were to run a pesticide shop
asciilifeform: does it mean i eat chrorophos for breakfast ?
asciilifeform: *chlorophos
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not the one sprouting spurious absolutes, which is why i'm not the one with this problem. what picture.
trinque lols
asciilifeform: i suppose my assumption that ~everyone~ has distinct 'circles of hell' for running proggies, is baseless
asciilifeform: so consider it explained.
asciilifeform: different machines, for different purposes, on different lans, etc.
mircea_popescu: well no, but your assumption that you making a general statement will be taken as made rather than modified ad-hoc is not only unwarranted, but actually contrary to your declared preference.
mircea_popescu: what, you're talking ascii ?
mircea_popescu: "everyone is welcome to substitute it randomly" ?
asciilifeform: neh simply forgot to explain that i 'redefined number 2'
asciilifeform: so - here you go, 'run' does not mean 'run all in one pot'
mircea_popescu: which is culpable, seeing how the entire argument there hinged on the definition of number 2.
asciilifeform: just like i take a shit, you should not assume that i did it in same room i sleep and eat in.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to do this like i do it on trilema ; but it's another to do it in the face of contention.
asciilifeform: even if it turns out that most folks do.
asciilifeform: (why? nfi, maybe they are in jail)
mircea_popescu: the latter is how ambitious if incompetent lawyers lose 90% of the cases they lose.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a point here, but i did consider 'run' to have been explained eons ago, when i publicly described my profession.
mircea_popescu: check out all the unexpected trouble one can stir up out of entirely left field dao.
asciilifeform: incidentally i might not even ~know~ all of the assumptions which some luser somewhere might read into the text. mircea_popescu reminds me that most of'em probably think 'he has 1 computer, and 1 lan'
asciilifeform: but what else?
asciilifeform: i might not even be able to catalogue what else.
asciilifeform: this would require a dedicated anthropological dig
asciilifeform: by qualified specialist.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 16:15 asciilifeform: hey i run virii
asciilifeform: shinohai: malware in the general case.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, they keep thinking "mp has one suit", so why not.
asciilifeform: shinohai: e.g., 'cryptolocker'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lulzy, even i have >1
mircea_popescu: you're "men with jobs, jerry! and secretaries!" whereas average has one stale pizza box and one pizza stained tshirt.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 15:43 phf: so i push back on the guy, rme says "let's change subject", within minutes guy goes "it's late here i gotta go to sleep"
trinque: there's a pragmatic distinction here between "this is a statement of holy truth" and "this shovel is currently doubling as guillotine in a pinch"
shinohai: Kind of imagined you meant plural of viruses there.
trinque: nothing wrong with that; I was saying the same yesterday
asciilifeform: shinohai: 1 per box at a time..
trinque: worth probably also giving n00bs the holy truth beating and leaving redefining english to shakespeare
mircea_popescu: trinque the thing is that you're perfectly allowed to use your own, consistent definitions, even if they may contradict "the common sense" ; provided that a) they are consistent ~and stable enough so as not to change by context~ and b) you're capable of expliciting them on request and this will not contradict previous construction. ie - you may have any graph you wish (chiefly because anyone does anyway, "community consensus"
mircea_popescu: is not a thing, no matter what it pretends), but it must have no cycles in it.
mircea_popescu: of neither kind.
asciilifeform: trinque: no redefinitions involved. i run'em. what's the problem.
trinque: mircea_popescu: I see it
asciilifeform: y'know, hobo wears a shirt. mircea_popescu wears a shirt. etc. no contradictions involved.
mircea_popescu: (cycle kind 1 : when your definitions can be forced into a cycle by changing contexts ; cycle kind 2 : when your definitions can be forced into a cycle by changing spot in time)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my shirt was weaved out of virgin tears tho!
asciilifeform: rule #1 of vtronics: no cyclez!1111111
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know ? it's actuallty much huger than originally realised ; v is actually a model of knowledge in the general sense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja know: if you forbid cycles, mark'n'sweek garbage collection works ?
asciilifeform: this has implications beyond gc.
mircea_popescu: which is by itself an achievement which dwarfs the accomplishments of the entire current genewration of anthropologists and kinda takes my breath away.
mircea_popescu: i think we're sitting on a poorly understood oilpatch.
asciilifeform: anyway it is a good knife, now folks must pick it up, cut.
asciilifeform: it is not the sword from norse saga, won't fight by itself.
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, trilema is a foremost example of "i have my set of defintions and you likely don't know what they are ; nor will likely figure it out through a whole article - shit's too fine."
mircea_popescu: drives people up the walls.
mircea_popescu: part of the problem is obviously that english is a language spoken by idiots, and it shows. but this isn't a large part and certainly not the largest part - i was doing the same thing in romanian. arguably much worse - people don't realise romanian is ALSO mostly spoken by idiots.
mircea_popescu: anyway. fucking javascript of a language if i ever saw one, this english thing. how do you people live ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: never forget, it is a commercial pidgin
asciilifeform: not a language, really, hasn't been in eons.
mircea_popescu: how do i humorously say "male whore" as in, "curv", which is the never-seen but PERFECTLY GRAMMATICAL masculine of curva, whore ?
asciilifeform: 'puto' !
mircea_popescu: aha lol.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and yes but it drives stupidity such as chomsky's rank nonsense about "what is gramatical". if you recall that recently linked essay.
asciilifeform: i guess anglicization might be 'he-whore'
asciilifeform: no worse than 'she-wolf'
asciilifeform: ilsa, she-wolf of auschwitz!111
mircea_popescu: i'd rather use hoare - hor if forced to do something with it.
mircea_popescu: $google blutjunge verfuhrerinnen
deedbot: << Blutjunge Verführerinnen (1971) - IMDb | << Blutjunge Verfuhrerinnen 197 - YouTube | << Blutjunge Verführerinnen 3. Teil (1972) - IMDb
asciilifeform: aha, it.
asciilifeform: 'misleaderess'
PeterL: << are you familliar with the SMILES system of notation?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 14:34 mircea_popescu: i'm even amenable to saying ::oc/C-COH-C::
mircea_popescu: PeterL not very.
mircea_popescu: but mind, i wasn't seriously proposing this be used ; just ad-hoc showing that it can be.
asciilifeform: PeterL: aha, i had this! in chemgroup's 'MOE'
asciilifeform: PeterL: which i programmed for, every day, for years, long ago.
mircea_popescu: PeterL it's kinda what i was doing pedestrianly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's ~only use is to key in structures from journals, and to keep'em in db
PeterL: I only use it by drawing the structure and having it generate the SMILES, which can be, E.G. pasted into another program
asciilifeform: it is not meant for human consumption!1111
asciilifeform: aha, PeterL has it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fu you're not to speak for humans! PeterL sure, and most people only write html by clicking on buttons. but i like to type my shit out.
asciilifeform: and yes you can close rings, etc. but it rapidly turns into a regexp-like monster.
PeterL: its like trying to see a picture by looking at the bit values, works better if you have a program draw it out for you
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wilfully ignore the benefit this exercise has for thinking.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my point was that everyone who worked in chemistry in any capacity since '90s or so, has used it, but no one works WITH it on paper or in head !
mircea_popescu: PeterL depends man. if i am involved in a process of trying to understand something, which may take many hours to many months, that i am saved five minutes for a typing out is not necessarily useful.
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm using that as a thinking support. which i usually am.
asciilifeform: PeterL: you may have missed mega-thread earlier , where mircea_popescu suggested that the pictures are unnecessary because the textual representation is possible.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am willing to state that the reason nobody discovered anything interesting since the 90s or so is because they haven't.
asciilifeform: wake me up when there is any support for this hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: obviously, if you'e looking at a picture of snatch, catlols etc, best to scroll through. if you are trying to decide if there is or is not a nuclear base there ; a cancer cell there, etc
mircea_popescu: you WILL look at the fucking bit values
asciilifeform: overall i agree with 'folks dumbly copy, paste, dun think things through'
mircea_popescu: you will, or you're no good.
asciilifeform: you will look at the ~relevant~ zoom level.
mircea_popescu: no, because bullshit interpolation is no good.
asciilifeform: rather than at protons of cancer cell, because you get the notion that they differ from regular protons in your garden.
mircea_popescu: they do. they're the protons of the cancer cell.
mircea_popescu: the world was built on logos. deal with it.
mircea_popescu: fucking inept wanna-be demiurge of drawing shit omg.
PeterL: protons differ, that is how NMR/MRI works
mircea_popescu: $google "fiat lux, zise cu gura plina, si pe loc se si facu lumina"
deedbot: No results.
asciilifeform: PeterL: they differ like the letters on my keyboard differ from yours.
PeterL: isn't your keyboard cyrilic?
asciilifeform never in his entire life owned a non-latin kbd
asciilifeform: though... i might have a japanese one somewhere.
PeterL: nevermind, was supposed to be joke
asciilifeform: pretty sure i do.
asciilifeform: PeterL: phf i think might have a genuine cyrillic kbd somewhere
asciilifeform: i haven't even ~seen~ one since '92 or so
asciilifeform: PeterL: most orc folk use transliteratrons of one kind or another.
PeterL: OK, but still, there are differing protons. Not all are the same, just like not all keys on the keyboard are the same, is that the metaphor you were going for?
asciilifeform: if you heat the thing to 5000K and they come out, they will be same as any other proton.
PeterL: yes, so?
asciilifeform: so they are same.
PeterL: they have the potential to be the same, right now they are different
asciilifeform: the idempotence of items like electron is whole basis of chemistry.
asciilifeform: they are not different, just emplaced differently.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> if you heat the thing to 5000K and they come out << dude... gohead cancer to 500k. wtf is with you.
PeterL: what does that have to do with graphical/alphabetic notations?
asciilifeform: discussing idempotence of the parts.
mircea_popescu: but you're discussing something that is entirely unrelated to what we were discussing.
asciilifeform: PeterL: the zoom levels item.
mircea_popescu: this is not discusing!
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu's assertion that 'you ought to take the benzyl ring and look at the bits of the jpeg'
asciilifeform: granted, it is difficult to avoid doing this, mentally, on occasion - when dealing with, e.g., vsepr
mircea_popescu: what i said was that a) ultimately all data is in point of fact data, and unless you're fucking around you will wish to look at the data ; b) that "Saving time" is only useful to people in a hurry ; and people thinking are seldomly in a hurry. rather than play with a desk weight while i try to comprehend x item, i might as well longhand its structure.
asciilifeform: 'the data' is not strictly defined, nor the instrument with which to look productively - raster display, or teletype, or play it through the sound card (i sometimes do...)
mircea_popescu: and, to all unstubborn engineers and others present : when encountering a difficult problem, do try and EXPLAIN IT. in writing.
asciilifeform: i've experimented with playing protein structures, yes, through sound card.
mircea_popescu: it's the fundamental reason "correspondence" even exists as a thing in science.
mircea_popescu: language makes people smarter.
asciilifeform: ~correct abstraction~ makes people smarter.
asciilifeform: sometimes, it is a custom language.
asciilifeform: sometimes - plastic motherfucking models.
asciilifeform: (nobody ever beat these for chem)
asciilifeform: NOBODY.
mircea_popescu: it's also a large part of why i even bother with trilema, otherwise i could just put up a page consisting of
phf: i think i might've had a cyrillic keyboard at some point. fwiw they are usually dual labeled, e.g. on Q you're also going to have a smaller Й somewhere on the side
phf: i haven't seen one of those since russia though. or maybe i brought it with my old computer, but strange i probably would've kept it.
phf: << it's not fiction, the facts are sourced, the interpretation that bey puts on them is his own though and i feel like he often stretches it to keep the narrative consistent with the "utopias" part of his premise
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:22 mats: oh wait, these are fictional huh
mircea_popescu: guy's some brit though neh ?
thestringpuller: i have a puzzle for http developers
thestringpuller: so i copy a raw http request from soapui, i put it into the raw section of postman
thestringpuller: SOAPUI gets the correct response, postman causes 500 error
jurov: what's soapui and psotman?
jurov: it can be caused by millionc possible things
mircea_popescu: put wireshark on, see what the difference is.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, send telnet/curl raw like sane ppl. wtf is postman.
trinque: teh parallel with "look at the data!!" from earlier vs "UI" as styled high-level API
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 23:51 mircea_popescu: at this point, project either delivers and is done or takes on life of own. if takes on life, then 3. more wizards are added, they slowly asm-ify the loops, inside out.
mircea_popescu: sooner or later all abstraction melts away.
mircea_popescu: oh and speaking of : so i was scammed into watching A TV SHOW. not substantially different from "pride and prejudice"/random televisa production. lotta spurious "interpersonal relations" shots without much logic interspersed with meaningless "warfare" shots without much logic.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-18 00:43 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu re: , didja ever see mega-film 'ogniem i mieczem' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did you even see same thing i saw ?
asciilifeform: it was a 3-parter - iirc part 1 made in '90s, 2 - '80s, 3 - '70s (yes)
mircea_popescu: 4 parts, with a deeply inept izabella scorupco
mircea_popescu: yeah. well i only managed to get through ~1.5
mircea_popescu: fucking bond extras thinking themselves actresses wtf is this.
mircea_popescu: what did you like anyway, the costumes ?
asciilifeform: what was 4 ?
mircea_popescu: ugh. i guess ima go look now.
mircea_popescu: 4th starts wqith scene of ilsa in shot with the bizarro "witch" woman (typical televisa shot, both face the camera, because totally this is how people interact) ; ends with balcony scene of the obnoxious derp + ilsa wedding.
asciilifeform: yeah but wtf was 4th? when filmed ? can haz imdb ?
mircea_popescu: wtf was with that guy, there's a montage worth a good 10 minutes of him gurning meaninglessly at the [mostly burning] scenery
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect it might have just been re-cut for convenience ?
asciilifeform: this is possible.
mircea_popescu: ie, they made it into 4 parts.
asciilifeform: so which of these did mircea_popescu see 1.5 of ?
mircea_popescu: tho it starts and ends with credits, so im guessing prolly stolen from some polish tv ?
mircea_popescu: 1 and ~2
mircea_popescu: i managed to crawl up to the part where the weird woman reads auspices in water wheel.
asciilifeform: the older chunks are better.
asciilifeform: at any rate if mircea_popescu knows of better film about rzeczpospolita, let's have it.
mircea_popescu: but this is in no sense a film
mircea_popescu: it's a tv show. like the price is right and jeopardy.
asciilifeform: y'mean in 20 min chunks with 15m of ads ?
asciilifeform: it was - film.
mircea_popescu: i mean it's vignettes of no internal sense, designed to appeal to the emotional brain of middle aged women, strewn together by no glue other than the happenstance of having been so presented.
mircea_popescu: like porn, exactly. except without the redeeming value of cunt.
asciilifeform: i'm not actually sure who it was for. i liked because - weird enough.
mircea_popescu: i suppose "rzeczpospolita" may substitute for the perverse ?
mircea_popescu: anyways. ima just mark down that you really liked the hats an' move on.
asciilifeform: i liked the stakes.
mircea_popescu: same difference.
mircea_popescu: fetishism, you understand me ? "i like this book because of the way capital letters are drawn at beginning of paragraph"
asciilifeform: fair'nuff
mircea_popescu: one of the very best offerings in comparative cinematography, btw, is imo ; a collection of 5 or so shorts - coupla of which made by exceptional directors, which shows ; the rest made by inept derps (hanno hofer worst of the lot), and they look exactly like "someone filmed 80 30second ad clips and spliced them together)
mircea_popescu: if i ran a culture of cinema phd programme i'd spend a few hours with that thing.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: re: wordpress so is there a better way to do all this than the lamp behemoth ?
shinohai: smeday
trinque: gonna need an OS, web server, db, programming language neh?
trinque: minus the part where you install the wordpress apt package
trinque: apt-cache showpkg wordpress << should give ya list of packages you'll need
shinohai: thx trinque
shinohai: <<< this is just autism, plain and simple.
mircea_popescu: shinohai in theory. in practice, no.
mircea_popescu: in any case, we're way the fuck better off with you putting in the medium-skilled 100s of hours to get this working ; and then gradually improving on that basis - than to wait for someone to put in the 10`000s of hours of very highly qualified work to replace lamp&all.
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not autism, they're hatching the cornel derp as "expert" for teh future.
mircea_popescu: shit dun work, but it's all they know how to do, so it's all they're doing. "should be good enough".
danielpbarron: and in other channels news >> Clash> I spoof my phone's location to manipulate Pokemon Go. << nifty idea huh? I don't know the game well enough but it sounds like someone could rile up a lot of feathers if they took this concept to the extreme
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: danielpbarron: cell phone's still a radio beacon at a particular place even if it's lying to whatever API
trinque: $s stingray
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron not really that hard to do afaik
pete_dushenski: << "The results indicate that scientists, engineers or technicians were not well-represented among the British great inventors, and their contributions remained unspecialized until very late in the nineteenth century. For developing countries today, the implications are that costly investments in specialized human capital resources might be
pete_dushenski: less important than incentives for creativity, flexibility, and the ability to make incremental adjustments that can transform existing technologies into inventions that are appropriate for prevailing domestic conditions." << basically get the govn't out of the way and que sera sera, the meat will be what it'll be.
pete_dushenski: << i guess i don't subscribe to the theory of server scarcity. at least not any more than the theory of global food scarcity. if server only does one thing for one man, so be it.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 04:07 ben_vulpes: go, try to remove cpanel from a machine.
ben_vulpes: feel free to boil shit in gutter oil in your own kitchen.
ben_vulpes: just ain't kosher.
ben_vulpes: and whoever said scarce, or anything like that.
ben_vulpes: os reinstalls are trivial.
ben_vulpes: should one care to.
ben_vulpes: idem server purchases.
pete_dushenski: << cheers. i'll let you know if i come up with any more questions about
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 10:47 Framedragger: << i've a $10 vps, no complaints, i did the initial ipv4 probing off of that. didn't run any i/o etc benchmarks tho. any particular questions (i can run some benchmark if you want)
ben_vulpes: "nah it's fine, i'll just have the shit-cooking kitchen *over there*"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i'm still not sure i see the angle but it's probably fair to blame my own ignorance on the subject
ben_vulpes: looks like you 'just want to' server stats from here.
pete_dushenski isn't chef, still sous sous sous sous chef
pete_dushenski: i've had no issues with cpanel in the past, nor is 'cpanel doesn't unglue without reformatting' a cause to abandon it in my book
ben_vulpes: tools you might consider instead, fail2ban, iptables, apache mod_status
ben_vulpes: should you give a shit
ben_vulpes: i mean yeah, it's a microwave, to continue the cooking metaphor.
ben_vulpes: rattles water molecules, makes $thing hot
pete_dushenski is fond of the micro onde
ben_vulpes: i have a live in chef for food, and my own two hands for servers.
ben_vulpes: jus ribbin ya
ben_vulpes: << ever hear of letterkenny, pete_dushenski ?
pete_dushenski: i'm content with a few hot meals a week, the rest, i scavenge. makes the hot meals all the better.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: hm nope.
ben_vulpes watches again
pete_dushenski: btw mazel tov on the new pad, ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: ty, that's just money though
ben_vulpes: fence was the actually onerous thing.
pete_dushenski: ha, that vid is priceless.
ben_vulpes: here there's another good one with the hockey players
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: whaddya mean 'that's just money' ? you did buy house for little vulpes fam, no ?
ben_vulpes: nono, america es un pais pobre
ben_vulpes: but the rent and the move etc are just money
pete_dushenski: lol america can be pobre without you being pobre
pete_dushenski: i've been looking high and low for a decent house rental
ben_vulpes: i moved out of the city!
ben_vulpes: that's the best part
pete_dushenski: it just... isn't the culture here. pickings are slim as shit.
pete_dushenski: how far out ?
ben_vulpes: i saw a few vancouver rentals this weekend
ben_vulpes: blech
ben_vulpes: 8.3 ish miles from the office
ben_vulpes: 35 minute ride in and out
ben_vulpes: 85%+ of it on dedicated bike routes
ben_vulpes: and by dedicated i mean physically segregated and no stopping.
ben_vulpes: 'springwater corridor' etc
ben_vulpes: quite idyllic, and far enough out that people whose egos are tied up in
ben_vulpes: 'living in portland' aren't interested
ben_vulpes: plus the american flags and crosses and big pickups tend to scare the hipsters away.
pete_dushenski: sounds... lovely.
ben_vulpes: no sidewalks.
ben_vulpes: i did not envision living in a neighborhood without sidewalks.
pete_dushenski: and you can cycle year round neh ?
ben_vulpes: i mean raingear's a thing
ben_vulpes: kinda obligatory in the summer for commuters due to the wacky climate dynamics in the area.
ben_vulpes: "most likely won't rain" every day
ben_vulpes: *even* in the summer.
pete_dushenski: i'm halfway considering 'fat tire' cycle even
ben_vulpes: give this town two inches of snow and you get
ben_vulpes: happens pretty reliably once every other winter or so
pete_dushenski: in other news no one here can use, i'm brokering a rather minty 1991 porsche 964/911 carrera 4 coupe manual if anyone's in the air-cooled market.
ben_vulpes has enough cars, salivating over pickups and haustrucks these days
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: lol mega skillz on display. like 'stars on ice'
ben_vulpes: town of derps.
ben_vulpes: and they think they only behave that way /on ice/
pete_dushenski: << betcha you could make a darling house outta this girl
pete_dushenski: << ok now this is just flat-out impressive. from whence such a display of creativity and courage ?
ben_vulpes: idly considering acquiring several old trailers, rehabing them with ladybird and renting them out
ben_vulpes: in large part to avoid showing taxable incomes
pete_dushenski: not a bad strat.
thestringpuller: the 90's are alive in portlant
thestringpuller: portland*
ben_vulpes: never died
BingoBoingo: People who plead aren't news because not people
BingoBoingo: also thestringpuller when did shinohai let you on his dpastey thing?
shinohai: did you tell me you didn't like that pastebin and I forgot ?
BingoBoingo: Oh it was your piece?
BingoBoingo: But yeah
BingoBoingo: pastebin is the suck
BingoBoingo: Oh, no thestringpuller's sig
BingoBoingo: But yeah you're the only person to use it and then thestringpuller gets an invite before I do?
shinohai: i mean, no invite really needed just curl lol
BingoBoingo: oh, ic
shinohai: cat article.asc | curl -F 'f:1=<-'
BingoBoingo: oh, ic
shinohai: wordpress makes wiki articles look kinda nice
thestringpuller: yea. is good for qntra writers. just make script to dump gpg turd into and then i can just dump that to irc
phf: z << it's a term of art from the 90s, back when malware carried exclusively destructive payload, but since then particular broken latin form morphed into oldfag leet speak for "malware"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 16:24 shinohai: Kind of imagined you meant plural of viruses there.
phf: pretty sure most 90s script kiddies at some point cracked latin dictionary and went "waitaminute" followed immediately by "well, what the hell, that's kind of cool on its own"
shinohai: ah kk
thestringpuller: drop the spike!
phf: sux
shinohai: btw pete_dushenski cheers for ``
pete_dushenski: "specifically the one who though Mark Karpelès did it." << thought.
mircea_popescu: dang... thisis going to be >1k lines a day isn't it.
mircea_popescu: << hence alf's etc "bombmaking in your garage" complaint6.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 22:20 pete_dushenski: less important than incentives for creativity, flexibility, and the ability to make incremental adjustments that can transform existing technologies into inventions that are appropriate for prevailing domestic conditions." << basically get the govn't out of the way and que sera sera, the meat will be what it'll be.
mircea_popescu: they have a point. when i cant get a bottle of nitric acid to carelessly spill on table, there's not going to be any inventions.
pete_dushenski: kudos to B. Zorina Khan for the enlightened perspective. hey, maybe (s)he's even a log reader.
mircea_popescu: << ftr, awstats or w/e you're using is just a python script, you can get it standalone.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 22:28 ben_vulpes: looks like you 'just want to' server stats from here.
ben_vulpes: the entire point i apparently failed to make.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, phpmyadmin is also just a script you can get standalone. tho in generall it's a case of "people haven't actually ever tried to cli mysql because nobody ever told them they could"
ben_vulpes: repl up
ben_vulpes: getcher hands dirty
ben_vulpes: and put that motherfuckin browser down, kid
mircea_popescu still recalls the utter "holy shit" face of chick when shown this magic
mircea_popescu: I DONT ACTUALLY NEED THE WEB ?!?!?!
ben_vulpes: no, you don't.
ben_vulpes has seen this face.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
ben_vulpes: so well
mircea_popescu: "of fucking course you can paste sql results into grep. it's called a pipe. and alternatively... you could just write your sql correctly"
ben_vulpes: psql will even shit csvs
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ^^
ben_vulpes: tooootally tangentially and not at all related to anything else, would there be any reason to store merkleroots, block/txn hashes as integers vs byte arrays?
mircea_popescu: should be a fucking data type.
ben_vulpes: what, "hash" as its own data type?
mircea_popescu: merkle root as its own data type
ben_vulpes: well the mr is a hash of hashes, no? doesn't have much structure to it.
ben_vulpes: the tree, though...
mircea_popescu: right, right. merkle TREE as its own data type.
ben_vulpes: yeah, yeah.
mircea_popescu: i suppose unrelated to your q so nm.
ben_vulpes: my question is about data in the blockchain. eg merkle roots, block/txn hashes.
ben_vulpes: don't disagree! just...not relevant.
ben_vulpes: anyways, very interested on notions about tradeoffs of byte arrays vs. massive integers
mircea_popescu: << the only good one of this was the one with the southern womenz. i have nfi why everyone thought they could do a version of their own.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 22:33 ben_vulpes: << ever hear of letterkenny, pete_dushenski ?
mircea_popescu: they can't.
ben_vulpes: that's not nearly southern women as it is "women who live in suburbia in the south of usgistan"
phf: ben_vulpes: if you're talking lisp, there's no reason not to store those values as numbers
ben_vulpes: phf: talking postgres, actually.
phf: ben_vulpes: in fact reading a hash becomes (parse-integer ... :base 16)
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 22:40 ben_vulpes: 35 minute ride in and out
a111: Logged on 2015-07-04 00:48 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: could do an even shorter/sweeter bidirectional (!) version with 'binary-types' ( )
hanbot: mircea_popescu everyone in ben_vulpes 'land smokes pot. you do know how potsmokers drive, do you?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: a bicycle.
mircea_popescu: hanbot ahahaha zing.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bro do you even pedal.
mod6: heheh
ben_vulpes: so hard bro
ben_vulpes: so hard
ben_vulpes: TARTS OFF
ben_vulpes: LET'S GO
mircea_popescu: #trilema. best testosterone. also almonds.
phf: ben_vulpes: well, binary types are unrelated to the issue though. binary types you declare your struct, you still want to decide yourself what goes in the struct. treating hashes as numbers makes sense if you're going full lisp, i.e. you're actually going to do math with those numbers (which is at the end of the day their whole purpose), unless it's not actually a hash but a bit mask or a xor'd something or other
mircea_popescu: phf his question is not really formulated. "best" what, "least likely to be fucked up by the c compiler" ?
ben_vulpes: ftr i do an average 24.6 km/h for thirty five minutes.
mircea_popescu: i walk faster than that! backwards!
ben_vulpes: nonsense!
ben_vulpes: get out of here with your sticks and magic numbers
mircea_popescu: i walk about 14-14.5.
mircea_popescu: no joek.
ben_vulpes: that stroll we took in ba never cracked ten
mircea_popescu: tru. can't properly walk with womenz present.
ben_vulpes: ho ho ho
ben_vulpes: said the ostrich
mircea_popescu: do you do 24.6km/h with teh woman ?
hanbot: by getting her some combat bootz.
ben_vulpes: girl dun bike
mircea_popescu: hanbot nah, human female is built to not be fast enough.
ben_vulpes: can't be sent out for infrastructure on a bike
mircea_popescu: but for this bit, we'd be extinct.
ben_vulpes: nobody can be sent out for infrastructure on a bike.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sorry wut ? sent what ?
hanbot has a small aneurysm
ben_vulpes: phf: i'd like to stick these values into postgres, not hold them in memory in a lisp process.
ben_vulpes: hence the question of 'integer vs. byte array'
mircea_popescu: hanbot it's an anthopological fact. if woman could outran man the species would not be here.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 'could' doesn't explain why whole cities stood still on the plain for slaughter and rape by the mongols
hanbot: species shmechiesh
mircea_popescu: << ok those kinda rule. redneck bikes!
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 22:44 pete_dushenski: << this is what winter riding looks like 'round these parts.
mircea_popescu: you can always tell an anthropologist by that womenz and bikers are in a confederacy against him!
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: will have to send me a bottle of whatever he's enjoying tonight
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha ahahaha omfg that "o noes snow" vid is priceless
mircea_popescu: it's like cats driving
pete_dushenski: "redneck bikes!" << rich rednecks too. og 'fat bikes' were >$5k until the last year or two when clunkier steel $2k models starting hitting stores.
pete_dushenski: s/started/starting
pete_dushenski: which i guess basically describes albertans in a nutshell : a buncha rich rednecks
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: semi-relatedly, the delicas are migrating south
pete_dushenski: "culture ? what culture ? imma wear my cowboy boots to the opera goshdarnit!"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: delicas ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 22:50 pete_dushenski: << ok now this is just flat-out impressive. from whence such a display of creativity and courage ?
ben_vulpes: $g delica
pete_dushenski: ;;ud delica
gribble: Error: We broke The Google!
ben_vulpes: coulda sworn that was a thing
ben_vulpes: mitsu adventurewagons
ben_vulpes: anyways, client has arrived for dinner
ben_vulpes: adieu
pete_dushenski: celica is the toyota sporty car...
ben_vulpes: ;;ud lmgtfy
gribble: Error: We broke The Google!
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: aha! we've had those for a coon's age. 15yo import laws baby. suck it.
pete_dushenski: anyways, cheerio
shinohai: $gettrust webbyz
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
phf: ben_vulpes: well, fwiw that question doesn't quite make sense from postgresql perspective either :) since your actual choice is to store decoded byte array in a BYTEA, decoded number in NUMERIC or original hash in CHAR. integer won't fit an entire hash, since it's 4 bytes.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: that's a hell of a mommy.
phf: ben_vulpes: but i'm just being pedantic
phf: well, now is down too..
phf: << emacs has (standard-display-cyrillic-translit "Russian"), which i remember being enabled on the dos build of emacs
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 14:28 asciilifeform: the only proggy i've ever encountered which did.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 01:33 phf: well, now is down too..
pete_dushenski: << you can't resign from usg.trump just because you're illiterate and didn't do your job (resignation letter from speechwriterlady who not-so-lightly lifted bits from usg.michelle and gave them to usg.melania)
pete_dushenski: sorry, not resignation letter, just statement about resignation letter.
mircea_popescu: the us election drama intensifies ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the mastermind behind 14 seasons of 'the apprentice' always provideth the lulz
Joshua-I: Pretty much the same intensity it has been this whole time
mircea_popescu: maybe gets better as winter comes.
Joshua-I: Well it's all going down in November
Joshua-I: Maybe someone will shoot him in the face
pete_dushenski: i thought august was supposed to be the 'hot month'
pete_dushenski: in general.
mircea_popescu: maybe trump comes out as a transsexual.
Joshua-I: but why
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