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(asciilifeform) adlai: here, I strongly disagree. I can spend arbitrarily long drafting an email responding to a bunch of different points, without the risk of a draft earning me responses of anyone other than, perhaps, an overzealous advertisement vendor, if I save the drafts with e.g. Google;
(therealbitcoin) adlai is referring specifically to "find 'which end to grab'" of contracts that become anyonecanspend, relative to trb (and other clients') logic, were miners to arbitrarily cease enforcing specific softforks.
(therealbitcoin) asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc yet-another anyone-can-spend tx variant ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: verisimilitude: sadly, not so clean, idjit miners routinely enforce all kindsa arbitrary garbage narrowings of the protocol
(agriculturalsupremacy) thimbronion: jfw - ok I can see those two main points - no warning about upgrade, completely ignoring the security flaws of segshit - which is namely that anyone can spend it
(ossasepia) whaack: I agree, jfw's article is gold, it's a new development in the ongoing story of "people" storing "their" bitcoin in anyone can spend addresses. qntra should milk the segwit line until the miners finally take the coins that are laying on the table for them. If qntra ran a piece that explained the manner in which coins are taken from someone storing their coins in segwit the article would be like
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: tangentially, mp never Officially backpedalled re his claim that 'no serious miner sits on prb' -- but evidently false, given that segshitness etc. 'anyone-can-spend' nonsense still not unwound
(ossasepia) BingoBoingo: NOTd41r: They are indeed "anyone can spend" transactions.
(ossasepia) whaack: RubenSomsen: From my understanding to someone that ignores segwit that question translates to: would you be okay with receiving coins from an anyone-can-spend address? The coins should be safe in their new home, so why not? Maybe you will want more confirmations since anyone could replace the txn sent to you with a txn w/ a higher free for the miners.
(ossasepia) RubenSomsen: You can of course ignore it, but what I meant is some of your coin history will be "tainted" by segwit, which is theoretically less secure if you think those are anyone-can-spend outputs.
(ossasepia) ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 10:22:55 whaack: RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there.
(ossasepia) whaack: RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there.
(trilema) snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-05 05:23:04 mp_en_viaje: atm i dunno i'd trust anyone from russia or recommend anyone move there. the one time this happened it blowed up in such a sickly manner, i absolutely don't want to spend the significant resources involved in dealing with the clean-up. as far as anyone knows, moscow's bogon-radioactive
(trilema) mp_en_viaje: atm i dunno i'd trust anyone from russia or recommend anyone move there. the one time this happened it blowed up in such a sickly manner, i absolutely don't want to spend the significant resources involved in dealing with the clean-up. as far as anyone knows, moscow's bogon-radioactive
(trilema) mp_en_viaje: how the fuck can you spend 50 hrs/month calling is anyone's guess, i'm not sure i spent that long on the phone since i was born
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-08-24 14:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702759 << eventually this will necessarily happen, yes. "segwit" transactions are stored on the bitcoin network as "anyone can spend", so eventually miners will unroll the segwit chain. how soon is not easily predicted (which is why the idea is stupid/usg-like, introduces impredictability in the currency)
(trilema) asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: trb is happy to ~eat~ anyonecanspendolade, just won't shit it
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-08-11 17:52 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 15:34 asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody bother lately to add up how much anyonecanspendolade in typical block ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 15:34 asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody bother lately to add up how much anyonecanspendolade in typical block ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody bother lately to add up how much anyonecanspendolade in typical block ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: it ain't 'to black hole', it's an 'anyonecanspend'
(trilema) asciilifeform: 'anyonecanspend' offers easy fracturing points for 'unwinders' tho
(trilema) asciilifeform: recall, 'anyonecanspend', so it got spent, possibly a block or however many in the past
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( gotta walk the tx upstream by hand and look for anyonecanspendolade )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1702759 << eventually this will necessarily happen, yes. "segwit" transactions are stored on the bitcoin network as "anyone can spend", so eventually miners will unroll the segwit chain. how soon is not easily predicted (which is why the idea is stupid/usg-like, introduces impredictability in the currency)
(trilema) mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the substantial weakness segwit adds to bitcoin chain security is that witout it, one needs the power to unwind the chain AND the keys of old txn to steal bitcoin. whereas with it, one only needs the hash power, as anyone can spend the segwit shit.
(trilema) phf: (and until you do its nature as a wallet can be debated philosophically. i think majority of tmsr is platonists, so there exists an infinitive number of wallets to which you can spend whether or not anyone has possession of them. you can though discover a wallet through the process of key generation)
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let the anyonecanspendolade bloom? what does it do to actual btc users
(trilema) asciilifeform: iirc prb already is written to reject blocks that attempt to 'illicitly' spend the perfectly legitimately anyonecanspendolade
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu or anybody ever so far bothered to count the total coin presently sitting in 'anyonecanspend' ?
(trilema) BingoBoingo: badD00d: TRB now WILL accept segwit blocks, but it will not parse the segwit'd portion as anything other than "anyone can spend"
(trilema) asciilifeform: the finding i keep bashing my head against, is the realization that the current scheme ('anyone can make any number of valid tx they want, and everyone else must spend cpu cycles again and again and again testing it') has no future.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 03:29 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the difference between eyes and electronic sensors on cars, ofc, is that you know when eyes stop working before it's too late. either way, if trumpenreich is to restore full employment to amerika, abolishing the minimum wage will make a full-time chauffeur affordable to anyone who can also spend $100k on a tesla or equiv.
(trilema) pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the difference between eyes and electronic sensors on cars, ofc, is that you know when eyes stop working before it's too late. either way, if trumpenreich is to restore full employment to amerika, abolishing the minimum wage will make a full-time chauffeur affordable to anyone who can also spend $100k on a tesla or equiv.
(trilema) asciilifeform: (no moar mining of tx containing actual signature, vs 'anyone-can-spend' crapolade.)
(trilema) asciilifeform: (summary: usg's most recent attempt to pound in the cock 'halfway', 'segwit', consists of prb churning out txen that result in 'anyone can spend' from trb pov, but miners are to 'agree never to process counter-softforkian tx', a la 'timelock' etc)
(trilema) asciilifeform: it's a nonsense. miners can induce pretty much anyone to 'doublespend' by failing, for long enough, to mine a tx
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-09-28 14:40 mircea_popescu: anyone willing to spend 1mn can have ~10k us registered businesses by friday sort of thing.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: anyone willing to spend 1mn can have ~10k us registered businesses by friday sort of thing.
(trilema) adlai: ;;later tell copypaste fwiw, I'm fully in favor of segregated witness being implemented and available for those who see fit to use it. the main problem is one of education; users need to understand that there's bitcoin, and there's anyonecanspend-witcoin
(trilema) asciilifeform: if 'ANYONECANSPEND', what exactly prevents an uncastrated node from... spending it ?
(trilema) punkman: actual output that requires a signature. Instead, the outputs do not push these scripts that we required to be satisfied, they would be encapsulated, it would be pushed as a piece of data. This allows us to, this effectively to every node, and every node not using this system, it's an ANYONECANSPEND. It's just an output that pushes data on the stack, the output doesn't do anything else.
(trilema) punkman: It's ANYONECANSPEND. In a soft-fork, we can add a new rule that restricts what's valid. We can add a rule like, whenever we see, we could say it's a new type of script that is able to instead of updating its inputs from the signature field, it takes it from the witness instead. The witness becomes a third part of the transaction in addition to the inputs and outputs of a transaction. For
(trilema) BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "softfork" uses "anyone can spend" non-sense
(trilema) punkman: "if the spend amount has a lot of trailing zeros, eg, 2.34000000 BTC, then have change outputs that also have the same amount of trailing zeros. Otherwise, it's obvious which one is the spend." << anyone can explain this?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: remember ? people can spend the dust ? so you or anyone knows what address proves any claim ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: there's literally nothing anyone can do to force the president to spend money, a bias that actually comes from the olden days that's never been challenged, ever.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: that's the whole idea, anyone can spend the sum on the basis of the notarized documents.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "Anyone who plans to waste the shareholders' money can undercut the competition. The easiest thing in the world is to charge too little, it is just as easy as spending too much of other people's money. Customers will flock to those who do because they are giving away some, if not all, of the value for free. Somebody may even pick up the underpriced goods and sell them at a profit when the stupid company ceases to ex
(trilema) mircea_popescu: HECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can be used to create outputs that are provably spendable by anyone (thus to mining fees assuming miners behave optimally and rationally) but only at a time sufficiently far into the future that large miners profitably can't sell the sacrifices at a discount.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: i wonder if the fucktard "justice" warriors realise that their constant if innefectual nipping at the heels means that anyone involved who can afford it will in fact spend the money and clobber everyone in range.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: Can anyone else see qntra this morning or is every one else seeing our page as suspended by the host?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: because anyone can spend the something, and in so doing super-prove the whole charade.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: jurov: and if situation gets interesting, mp can pull asks, leaving me unable to add something to other side << i shouldn't be the only person in that market. provided anyone gives a shit about the derps themselves or their general market, enough to actually spend the usd they CLAIM to have received in investment, then that market should easily compete with s.mpoe.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: b) that while neobee spends a lot of time executing, it's so far failed to actually come up with a business plan. anyone can buy advertising, and overpay for it.


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