asciilifeformagriculturalsupremacyspykedtrilemaalethepedia
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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


Chillum: and you better stop, because it won't for you
Chillum: people are spoiled by elevators that stop at the bottom all by themselves
Chillum: making them all soft
asciilifeform: l0l, looks like me www is under ddos
asciilifeform: so, http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZdeGe4yclnoJ:www.loper-os.org/%3Fp%3D388+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
assbot: Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdKdUk )
asciilifeform: let's hear it for d3m0cr4cy, where every packet, even from idiots, 'counts', aye ?
asciilifeform: i'll take one guess, that it relates to http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096078
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 00:04:38; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section.
Chillum: asciilifeform: tcp/ip layer or application layer?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160700 @ 0.0002813 = 45.2049 BTC [+]
Chillum: application layer is my favorite
asciilifeform: Chillum: no idea at present
Chillum: different server fail to different things
Chillum: pause for 5 minutes between the header name and header value works for a lot
asciilifeform: not paying enough for this info to be readily available to the naked eye.
Chillum: then forget about the connection on your side and open another
Chillum: another trick is to send 1 byte every second to keep the connection open
Chillum: very hard to mitigate short of load balancing
asciilifeform: Chillum: we all read 'spam like a pro in 21 days' (TM)
mircea_popescu: malcom gladwell ?
asciilifeform: aha
Chillum: what does ddos have to do with spamming? I have not read that
mircea_popescu: !up Armand
asciilifeform: Chillum: mythical book, which i imagined, telling the 'secrets' of 'k00l d00dz' the world around.
Guest64542: Mr. Popescu: Is your website offline? Or overloaded?
decimation: asciilifeform: lol why ddos you?
Chillum: there are tools, but the servers are patched for the tools
Chillum: it is about fiddling around with custom scripts
decimation: works for me
asciilifeform: decimation: why ddos anything
Chillum: there are so many ways to fuck with a web server that they can't get them all
Chillum: you just have to do something original
decimation: ;;isitdown loper-os.org
gribble: loper-os.org is up
Chillum: which is hard but not that hard
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 nah, inept dc caved over a fraudulent dmca notice. will be skinning them for it, next week.
Chillum: that is the difference between a script kiddie and someone who is actually doing stuff
Guest64542: do you expect the site to be back up soon?
mircea_popescu: yeah prolly by tomorrow.
Chillum: the nice thing about application layer DDOS is that it does not require significant bandwidth and can work with high latency
mircea_popescu: and i guess ima hammer the shit out of fetlife now, anyway.
Chillum: which means you can do it through tor
Chillum: it is the smart subtle ddos that can run from a raspberry pi on a dail-up
decimation: Chillum: but who would give a fuck about your hammering?
Chillum: spammers
Chillum: shut down the website they are advertising
asciilifeform: Chillum: why use a proxy net that has canonical exit ip list for any sysadmin with half a brain to add to drop list ?
Chillum: half a brain is the key point
decimation: maybe they have an alternative position on jovian science
Chillum: they don't
Chillum: if they do have an alternative position on jovian science they will have to go through me to get it told!
mircea_popescu: "[W]hen a writer’s education on a topic consists in interviewing an expert, he is apt to offer generalizations that are banal, obtuse or flat wrong." << in romanian this is known as "a waiter at one of these places where university professors gather can actually soak up a lot, often enough to pass himself for one"
Chillum: (kidding, I try to be very neutral on wikipedia)
mircea_popescu: or something like that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this actually is a two-layered shit sandwich
Guest64542: Mr. P: what's that all about with FetLife anyway?
asciilifeform: pinker was covering, making excuses for gladwell's lack of even the most elementary education or curiosity
Chillum: when writing a tertiary source like an encyclopedia one must rely on experts only, original research is forbidden. It is meant to document the information that already exists without adding opinion
Chillum: original research is of course great, but out of the scope of an encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 derps ennumerated their db rather than hashing it.
Chillum: we get experts all the time and we have to tell them that they can only use what they know if they have sources
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i noticed. ridiculous.
decimation: moldbug would say that pinker would gladly suck the cock of a nyt writer so he can be published in the 'grey lady'
mircea_popescu: presenting rank ignorance as, rather than humiliatory, a sort of "problem". it's no problem.
Guest64542: so you just scraped the data? I don't see what the big deal is
mircea_popescu: Chillum everything even remotely worth reading is out of the scope of a wikipedia.
asciilifeform: Guest19244: see also the case of weev.
mircea_popescu: also, every encyclopedia consists of original research of its editors
mircea_popescu: which is what the term means.
Chillum: First we stored the password and that was stupid, then we hashed it but people could build rainbow tables so we added salt, then things got faster. Now we harden by hashing many times
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 internet is large, and mostly inhabited by the clueless.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: it is nothing more than a starting point for understanding
mircea_popescu: it's a starting point for misunderstanding, which wouldn't be a big deal
Chillum: any serious academic knows an encyclopedia is not a reliable source and is just a tool for laymen to get a basic understanding of a subject
mircea_popescu: but it packages it with a very dangerous false sense of competence.
Chillum: if you think an encyclopedia is more you are sure to be disapointed
mircea_popescu: no, iut's a tool for laymen to bolt down their ignorance in such a way that they'll never ever become good, at anything.
asciilifeform goes to dig for the trilema summarizing mircea_popescu's conference-ii speech re: this, but remembers that his www is down
mircea_popescu: i happen to know what things are, having had the good fortune to exist before wikipedia did.
Chillum: tools are tools, people can use them right or bolt themselves to the floor
Chillum: not the tool's fault
mircea_popescu: this is not a tool.
mircea_popescu: a tool is something that does something useful.
Chillum: give a fool a hammer and a nail and they will stick their ear to the floor
asciilifeform: Chillum: know the difference between a tool and a boobytrap
asciilifeform: which is also a kind of tool
mircea_popescu: this is a rube goldberg cube. entertaining, for us. wasteful, for the random derp/.
asciilifeform: but not for the 'user'
Chillum: I know a boob using a tool wrong
asciilifeform: the correct way to 'use' an antipersonnel mine...
asciilifeform: is to bury it and walk away
Chillum: really if you don't know how much confidence to give a given data source then that is a failure to comprehend
asciilifeform: not sing, dance on it.
decimation: your www is up for me ascii
Guest64542: Mr P: I don't understand why you are picking a fight with them
mircea_popescu: you seriously believe that if you split up the value wikipedia added to human society over the years, in "making experts laugh" and "everything else", the 2nd bit would be anything even remotely comparable to the 1st ?
Chillum: Wikipedia says clearly it is not a reliable source and it never pretends to be
mircea_popescu: im not sure it's even 1%
asciilifeform: decimation: up/down, variably
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 actually, they are picking a fight with me. i generally end fights.
Chillum: it is all we can do to keep the pages from just saying "U R GAY LOLOLOLO)(!"
mircea_popescu: i honestly believe ed is actually a better wiki than wikipedia.
Chillum: from chaos great things emerge
mircea_popescu: or was. is it still online ?
Guest64542: OK. But how did the conflict get started? Why are you interested in their DB?
Chillum: ed?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e2 ?
decimation: Chillum: precisely, so how do 'you' spare the cycles to prevent the more insideous defacement?
Chillum: erectile dysfunction?
decimation: encyclopedia dramatica
asciilifeform: ah
asciilifeform prefers lurkmore.to
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 i ended up making a profile at some point. read some "build from the ground up with security in mind" verbiage from the baku character, sounded exactly like the bitcoin scammer broken record.
mircea_popescu: then i saw the horror.
mircea_popescu: thing looks like it was coded by armandi character.
Chillum: decimation: I have a javascript snipet that shows me pages in the "attack page" category. Every so often someone makes a page describing what a fag some other person is and an editor markes it as an attack page
mircea_popescu: decimation has it
Chillum: I delete it and usually block the person who made it
menahem: sorry to interrupt, is trilema down for you ?
Chillum: unless they can provide a reliable source to back it up
mircea_popescu: menahem yes yes discussed above. come back tomorro!
menahem: lol kk thank you. :)
mircea_popescu: np np
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's lurkmore.to
asciilifeform: !s lurkmore
assbot: 11 results for 'lurkmore' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lurkmore
asciilifeform: ^ it
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#847860
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 15:41:18; dignork: mircea_popescu: on a concept level lurkmore is a copy of encyclopedia dramatica, but they do much better job imho
mircea_popescu: oh russki thing. yea
Guest64542: so is your objective to point out flaws in the website? or something else? what are you trying to accomplish?
mircea_popescu: im not trying to accomplish anything. hm... what exactly is your interest in this thing ?
mircea_popescu: !s Ittay Eyal
assbot: 0 results for 'Ittay Eyal' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=+Ittay+Eyal
mircea_popescu: heh.
Guest64542: I have a profile at FetLife, and I have seen a rather lively debate there about this. But I haven't formed an opinion yet. I thought it would be interesting to talk directly with you about instead of relying on a lot of chatter
asciilifeform: Guest19244: in the seek00r1ty business, there is a concept called 'full disclosure'
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 so you're entirely foreign to the bitcoin space, then ?
mircea_popescu: no idea who i am, what trilema is, anything ?
asciilifeform: which boils down to: imagine there is a derelict house occupied by alcoholic bomzhes. the city condemned it, but the occupants refuse to leave.
asciilifeform: they even persist in bringing friends over.
asciilifeform: so after umpteen many warnings, the king's men roust all the bums that can be rousted, and dynamite the place.
Guest64542: I know what bitcoin is. I have not actually used it. Before logging into this IRC, I read a little bit about who you are. So I have some idea
mircea_popescu: aite. so basically, i saw something, said something. fetlife misjudged itself, and sent a spurious "trademark infringement" claim to the dc.
mircea_popescu: i pointed out to the dc that if it abuses dmca notice process in this way it'll end up liable, and linked them to caselaw.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l, not even copyrasty ?!
mircea_popescu: some dude claiming to be "from fetlife" made a proper dmca notification, which i counter-notified
mircea_popescu: waited ten days, reinstated the content, forgot all about it.
mircea_popescu: this was... i dunno, weeks ago.
Guest64542: before your site went offline, I did have a chance to read the DMCA takedown notice and your response
decimation: i can see how the dc is in a tough spot
mircea_popescu: today the dc nulled that ip, which brings them into liability over the matter, as the complaint is clearly spurious,
mircea_popescu: and so ima sue them for all they got and move the blog.
mircea_popescu: bout it.
mircea_popescu: once it's back, im also going to dump the whole db,
mircea_popescu: as a warning for later muppets on the score of "fuck with people you don't know"
mircea_popescu: internet brigading is a great way to deal with nobodies, but you run the risk of stepping on the tail of someone who is actually powerful, on occasion, at which point the whole thing backfires.
Guest64542: I'm not an expert on DMCA, but I do kind of get the idea that all you did was post links to the profiles, and I don't see how that would be a copyright violation
mircea_popescu: i think this roughly brings us to date.
mircea_popescu: wait until you read into the statutory damages for dmca fraud.
asciilifeform knows of no serious cases of such damages having been imposed, but - ianal!
Chillum: The study of security is interesting, but the study of insecurity is fascinating.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform $100k. remember the bezzleword ?
mircea_popescu: this is a federal statute.
asciilifeform: yes but has anyone lost and paid it ?
mircea_popescu: well, dc kinda has trouble running away.
asciilifeform: or is dmca precisely what it appears to be - a bludgeon for riaa/mpaa to use, and anything else is incidental noise.
mircea_popescu: oh, i'm not suing some bankruipt derps in canada, who cares about them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dmca is EXACTLY and specifically drawn so large players can squash annoyances, but also minor players trying to do the same get totally raped.
asciilifeform: 'large' in the buffett, usg-large sense
mircea_popescu: if you have any experience with contemporary us law, this should be a familiar pattern
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: is my (admittedly surface) understanding
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i predict that the case will hinge on whether 'fetlife' is a tendril of usg in good standing
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a sad state of affairs for actual providers. they're stuck in the middle. can't really pay good lawyers, can't really exactly judge when customer is going to turn around and bitchslap them with a ten ton hammer...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't intend to pursue some dubious "start-up" in canada on the strength of the declarations of some otherwise proven liar / confused internet person.
asciilifeform: (it is probably not enough for tendril status, to merely be in the mythical 'guild of all sc4mz0rs')
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as joint and several liability. let the dc sue them.
asciilifeform: i have yet to hear of a dc being nailed for yanking the machine of a victim of copyrasty
Chillum: severed?
Guest64542: Mr. P: Forgive my ignorace, but who is DC? Are you referring to the provider that hosts your site? Or some sort of third-party abritraitor? And what do you mean by "tendril of USG"?
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 the datacenter, yes.
decimation: heh
mircea_popescu: and i didn't use that term. he did.
decimation: yeah asciilifeform, what do you mean "tendril of usg"
mircea_popescu: yeah asciilifeform !
decimation: heh
Guest64542: ok sorry I wasn't looking at the user ID
asciilifeform: decimation: what i meant was: a lawsuit in an american court is won or lost at the pleasure of usg.
Chillum: do irc client reveal what type they are like web browser's user agent?
Chillum should read the IRC protocol RFC
decimation: mircea_popescu: couldn't the dc simply claim that you were violating their tos?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=13f9814f-b56e-4314-8e1b-95215ce60a6d
assbot: Using a DMCA takedown notice to assert a trademark claim may lead to section 512(f) liability - Lexology ... ( http://bit.ly/1Duf0ed )
asciilifeform: as in the 'nuclear iran' case recently - can even be magicked away without explanation.
mircea_popescu: enjoy.
mircea_popescu: Chillum depends how you set yours up, i guess.
mircea_popescu: some answer to ver ctcp messages.
Guest64542: what does usg stand for?
mircea_popescu: united states government
Chillum: huh. One would think it is either part of the protocol or not
Guest64542: ok
mircea_popescu: Chillum the irc is an old beast chills.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'refused to dismiss counter-claim.' but how did the case end?
asciilifeform doesn't know
Chillum should REALLY read the IRC protocol RFC
Chillum: mircea_popescu: I know I was using it before the web
mircea_popescu: generally these end in settlements, to avoid the ever balooning costs.
Chillum: just never learned the protocol under the client
mircea_popescu: !up Guest64542
Chillum: mircea_popescu: "chills" is what they called me in high school
Chillum: I was very relaxed
mircea_popescu: cool.
Chillum: weed
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I suspect that anyone who has standing to assert section 512(f) probably will get a settlement
Chillum is grooving the Thelonious Monk's - Monk's Dream with a puff of smoke
mircea_popescu: decimation the dc could claim absolutely anything they wish. the standard still is preponderence of evidence.
asciilifeform assumed 'chilam', the traditional smoking instrument
Chillum: yup
Chillum: that is right
Chillum: the high school nickname is a coincidence
Guest64542: Mr. P: is it possible that scraping data is a violation of FetLife's TOU?
Chillum: used to go by HighInBC
mircea_popescu: the dmca does not provide for an avenue to enforce anything you wish.
mircea_popescu: misusing it in this manner is a misdemeanor, and more importantly, a path to civil liability.
decimation: mircea_popescu: true, but I suspect that the dc could 'find you violating' without asserting anything w.r.t. dcma claims
mircea_popescu: they already did.
decimation: but that would be something for a judge to sort out I suppose
mircea_popescu: exactly.
Guest64542: ok I get that. DMCA is not the proper mechanism for enforcement
mircea_popescu: "uh... we just ... didn't wanna do it anymore your honor." "shut up. sit down. "
Chillum: DMCA make a lot of things illegal but does not provide an easy path to conviction
mircea_popescu: conviction ?
Chillum: a toothless old lady shrieking at people
mircea_popescu: im not about to put anyone in prison. this is about money Chillum .
decimation: Chillum: it's a civil claim
Chillum: oh
Chillum: then I am talking about the wrong part of DMCA
decimation: mircea_popescu is performing a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer
mircea_popescu: essentially.
mircea_popescu: what started as a service for folks too simple to understand why they do not wish to be /user/1004555
mircea_popescu: turned into a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer.
asciilifeform: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0KA8PKP.txt )
Chillum: is this like that guy who used a college network to download shitloads of public domain but held by private companies court records?
mircea_popescu: but seriously, they're total fucking idiots. i even had a lengthy comment explaining to the derp in charge how to salt and hash
decimation: the CrossFit thing is hilarious too. it's the latest fad amoung youth
asciilifeform: Chillum: yeah. they hanged him
Chillum: it is amazing how much information not encumbered by copyright is held for ransom by private companies
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: danced the hempen jig, he did.
mircea_popescu: Chillum notrly, no.
Chillum: I am looking at you JSTORE!
Chillum: mircea_popescu: as usual the conversations here require context that takes time to learn
mircea_popescu: myeah.
Chillum: part of what makes this channel intersting
Chillum: at first I stayed for the spectacle, after that for the intrigue
menahem: also the reason why I stfu until I know backstories from trilema.
Chillum: like a movie by some twisted director that keeps you watching in abject confusion/horror
mircea_popescu: lol menahem
menahem: :)
decimation: crossfit is the 1920's 'strong man' circus act, reinvented for today's youth
decimation: which is why claims to originality are doubly amusing
mircea_popescu: but seriously, you're all tech savvy people. who the fuck claims to have, you know, "built the site with security in mind" then makes the db trivially iterable because couldn't be bothered to hash the anything ? would something like user/F2xWjk been so very hard ?
mircea_popescu: gotta absolutely have /10001 so the next one is /10002 ?
mircea_popescu: nuts, i tell you.
Guest64542: Mr P: Sounds like your real dipute at this point is with the dc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is a more or less plain case of 'i have the right to wear this rape dress'
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 as far as i'm concerned, there's a crowd of silly people somewhere on the web that tricked a dc into bankruptcy. yes.
asciilifeform: 'why -should- we have to be solid. the world should not contain pointy things'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well...
mircea_popescu: i like a challenge as much as the next fellow, i guess.
asciilifeform was kinda surprised, he admits, to learn that mircea_popescu even hosts in a part of the world which even pretends to honour dmca etc.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: because annoying idiots ?
mircea_popescu: i also like free money as much as the next fellow
asciilifeform: exploding hard disks ?
mircea_popescu: uh... i'm not particularly annoyed ?
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
mircea_popescu: i still dunno that's related.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, i guess this makes me the first of that evil species of barristish sticklers that you all love to hate that you ever met.
asciilifeform wonders how many readers purchased a spot welder after hearing of this
asciilifeform: (the drives, that is)
Guest64542: Mr P: Thank you for sharing your perspective on this
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
Guest64542: Mr P ummm I am not sure what you are talking about LOL
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097182
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 04:54:00; mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we - or at least i - knew that you're fond of courtroom challenge. but i can't help but also remember the various folk who tried this in ussr.
mircea_popescu: ussr wasn't built on the bezzle tho.
asciilifeform: where - not everyone now remembers, but - believe or not, there were also courts and jurists.
decimation: re: the gray journal: vintage moldbug > "Of course, they can't do much. You can't submit to the gray journal. There is no formal review process. You simply have to know someone who knows someone who... and who is on the end of this chain? Five or ten very ordinary people, with no particular expertise in anything, perhaps a BA in some science or other. Who happen to have gotten themselves assigned, through whatever feat of
decimation: bureaucratic mastery, to the "science beat" at the Times."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the power of the "people's denouncing" in there ? that's the equivalent.
Guest64542: ok I see that there is a record of our conversation
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: god fucking help you if i stand up in the "political meeting" and ask you about X.
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 since you use the web platform andso prolly don't have a local log.
decimation: I thought that the 'political meeting' was for the party to tell people what to think, not vice versa
mircea_popescu: decimation you'd be surprised.
asciilifeform: decimation: enforcement of norms is always - in practice - 'peer to peer'
asciilifeform: nothing else even begins to scale.
mircea_popescu: decimation the problem with a "democracy", aka representative democracy aka people's soviet is that the victory is always to the fearless.
mircea_popescu: feudalism empowers he with most knights, the rest - he wight less concern.
decimation: I suppose the only 'norm' that moscow really cared about was 'nominal submission to moscow'
asciilifeform: decimation: nah. that'd be, e.g., the khanate.
mircea_popescu: not exactly. more important in practice - the need to cut the grass.
mircea_popescu: lest it gets too tall.
asciilifeform: ^
decimation: ah I see
mircea_popescu: and so a position "of power" was a terrible curse no one wanted.
asciilifeform: chingis khan, yes, he only cares that you submit & pay tribute.
mircea_popescu: which is how the thing actually failed.
decimation: one sees exactly the same phenomenon in usg today
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: modern mega-state - micromanages.
asciilifeform: aka 'playing civ-1'
mircea_popescu: they even use the same word - "responsibility"
mircea_popescu: soon the same old jokes from the 70s are going to begin to circulate once more.
mircea_popescu: "promotion = much more responsibility, not much more money" etc.
asciilifeform: 'nah, we're out of meat. fish is what they lack at the fish monger's.'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: you know that still has me chuckling ?
decimation: and 'responsibility' means 'yer ass is on the line now', not 'you can choose to do as you wish'
mircea_popescu: decimation it means, "try and leech as much as you can off the young and impressionable females before a determined and disinterested young male gores you."
mircea_popescu: rather sad state. of affairs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had an eerily 'sovok' experience the other day. went to a shop that sold, among other items, wooden planks. needed one sawed to fit in car. waited for whole hour, while clerk after clerk inquired, where, where is the one and only man authorized to use saw (kept under lock and key)
asciilifeform: he was nowhere
mircea_popescu: drunk, no doubt, out of existential crisis.
decimation: ^ note that the hippies in the 60's were the 'young male', and now they are trying to 'maintain responsibility'
decimation: asciilifeform: was it a home depot? I've had exactly the same experience
asciilifeform: it was.
mircea_popescu: decimation this is an angle alf does not wish to see (deliberate engineer's blindness), but in fact compare the afore-mentioned weev with the unfortunate da prosecuting. is weev a lazy bum ? yes. did the poor da work butt off through law scool ? yes. still not paid debt ? yes.
mircea_popescu: conviction overturned. is da fucked ? yes. is weev feasting on his corpse ? yes.
mircea_popescu: pay a lot to gain very little vs pay nothing to gain whatever you take for yourself. hmm....
asciilifeform: occasionally, ant kills elephant.
mircea_popescu: welll... let's hope you're patriotic.
asciilifeform: but does the smart money bet on ant ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the soviets ? ALWAYS.
mircea_popescu: elephant is not allowed to move.
mircea_popescu: ant wins every time it cares.
mircea_popescu: to*
mircea_popescu: the problems the social security system has are not limited to the social security system. they are endemic, and that because they are systematic.
asciilifeform: i take elephant's retort, 'i did not care to crush the ant', seriously -while elephant remains alive-.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ask someone whom you know in the civil service what does an overturned conviction do.
mircea_popescu: or ask them what % they must maintain.
mircea_popescu: or whatever, ask about how the job sucks.
asciilifeform knows
mircea_popescu: so then... alive ? yeahok.
asciilifeform: even in the godforsaken patent office
decimation: I'm not sure said da really profits by keeping his job
asciilifeform: overturned patent - not so good.
mircea_popescu: decimation if i was sure, i'd recommend it to bright young things.
mircea_popescu: but i don't.
mircea_popescu: it's a rather precarious existence.
decimation: how does getting $60k salary with $200k in college debt 'make sense'
mircea_popescu: 60k salary as long as you know, 65k expended.
asciilifeform: how does 60k with 200k house debt make sense
asciilifeform: how does all debt peonage 'make sense.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "but you own the house"
asciilifeform: you 'own the sheepskin' also.
mircea_popescu: same way you "own" the da office.
mircea_popescu: see, medieval kings were a lot more honest.
asciilifeform: simony.
mircea_popescu: da actually did own his office.
decimation: 'but it's the people's office'
decimation: well, moldbug would say that the improvement was that there was an actual human the da 'was responsible' to
mircea_popescu: never.
mircea_popescu: what king do you think ever talked to the baillifs ?!
decimation: not king, but his wot
mircea_popescu: they didn't even speak a mutually comprehensible idiom.
mircea_popescu: heh.
decimation: lord/duke/baron whoever knows the score, king trusts him to keep a handle on things
asciilifeform tries to recall mircea_popescu's post re: how modern notion of 'chain of command' applied to medieval structures is simplistic; remembers that www is down
menahem: :(
mircea_popescu: incredible how useful trilema actually is huh.
mircea_popescu: sorry bout that.
menahem: big tyme
menahem: no apologies needed. site is pure gold.
decimation: well, my understanding is that in early english monarchy that the king was more of a 'first amoung equals' rather than 'strict commander'
mircea_popescu: pre normans, this ?
decimation: yeah
mircea_popescu: it's all poppycock. they didn't even keep records.
mircea_popescu: the later imperially-ambitious english retconned a bunch of shit into their record
mircea_popescu: so victoria isn't inferior to wilhelm.
decimation: heh they had a quilt somewhere
mircea_popescu: (british-german rivalry goes back a long time. as long as there was a germany, really.)
menahem wonders if we could get a quick lesson on modern chains of command compared to medieval structures ?
mircea_popescu: "In fact if an attacker waits until he sees another block on the network, the attacker can be sure that a majority of hashpower is now working on successors to that already published block, and not the one the attacker has kept hidden. The result is not a toss-up, but a distinct advantage to the honest nodes who have published their blocks already. "
mircea_popescu: this is a rather valid point.
mircea_popescu: that "instantly" is rather iffy.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell funkstein_ not bad.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not mystery
asciilifeform head-desks over the kind of things which might constitute 'revelation' to folks who used bitcoin without looking into how it worked
decimation: this goes to the thread re: how to distinguish 'trusted nodes'
decimation: it strikes me that it would be desirable to operate a node under a 'wot signature'
asciilifeform: decimation: once you are even speaking of 'trusted nodes' something went horribly wrong
asciilifeform: the original conversation, iirc, was about usg sibyls
asciilifeform: decimation: operate a node under a 'wot signature' << ultimately ip-over-gossip yes
mircea_popescu: alf has it. the notion of "good node" is akin to the notion of "clean bitcoin"
asciilifeform sometimes wonders what hanbot does these days instead of working over the old tardphorum with a plasma gun as in the old days.
mircea_popescu: if you think in these terms you're either in an alt-universe where bitcoin can not exist, or you have woefully misunderstood the present one.
asciilifeform: 'clean electricity'
mircea_popescu: well, that exists.
mircea_popescu: POSITIVE electricity tho...
asciilifeform pictures flowing positrons
mircea_popescu: nono, not in that sense.
decimation: but the electric company has no way to much delay the flow of electrons to your house
mircea_popescu: SQUARE ELECTRON-CITY
asciilifeform: decimation: seekreet d4rk kn0wl3dg3: electrons don't move all that much.
mircea_popescu: "perpetually even coordinate electron-icity"
decimation: asciilifeform: aye
asciilifeform: but this is like, 1870s state of art
asciilifeform: we're not there yet.
mircea_popescu: http://daddyslittlewankbait.tumblr.com/post/102596211799/she-was-a-dumb-bitch-who-just-wanted-to-make-her ru pronz ?
assbot: She was a dumb bitch who just wanted to make her... | Teen Wankbait ... ( http://bit.ly/1z58Z28 )
Chillum: mircea_popescu: I found this: http://tim.jagenberg.info/2015/01/18/low-power-esp8266/ the sleep mode power consumption is 78 microamps and it can wake up and transmit packets in < 2ms
assbot: Low Power ESP8266 – Sleeping at 78 micro Amps | tim.jagenberg.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5adKT )
Chillum: if you designed your application right it could sleep the vast majority of the time
Chillum: with wake-up times that fast it can sleep over 99% of the time and scan every few seconds
Chillum: The gps chip I have can operate itself at 50ma and communicate on demand to the ESP8266
Chillum: 2 AA at that level of draw will last near a week
Chillum: both use 3.3v
Chillum: aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body
Chillum: s/naken/naked/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00028083 = 36.5921 BTC [-] {2}
menahem: that is the last thing i wanna picture. going back to the link mircea posted..
Chillum: I look grey but I am not!
Chillum: it is ashes!
Chillum: FYI I am always naked when on IRC
menahem: lol wtf.
mats: ;;gettrust Chillum
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Chillum!~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum. Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mats&dest=Chillum | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Chillum | Rated since: Thu Feb 26 23:32:23 2015
Chillum: you wanna do business mats?
Chillum: you got any gold?
mats: im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up
Chillum: okay well try talking to me first
mats: we just did.
Chillum: Okay buddy
mircea_popescu: chillum it is an impressive little thing.
mircea_popescu: <Chillum> aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body << proof wikipedia is a nudist colony.
mats: have a nice day
mircea_popescu: anyways. tomorrow!
menahem: likewise, ciao!
gabriel_laddel: !rate mats 1 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-04-2015#1091700 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097334
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/691eaa1ffd3b556f
assbot: Logged on 08-04-2015 02:25:15; mircea_popescu: !rate mats 1 Lotta paralegal work on http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 05:52:49; mats: im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up
gabriel_laddel: !v assbot:gabriel_laddel.rate.mats.1:af274b559672ad59e75e9980aa8d67558cdb50339e2cab5747d1fcc90c50c0bd
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mats with note: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-04-2015#1091700 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097334
gabriel_laddel: !up menahem
menahem: off to bed.. wanted to say: with no trilema, it feels like the net is down. dunno where to surf.
gabriel_laddel: menahem: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvzSU )
gabriel_laddel: menahem: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/whyantiint.htm http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/hbaker/hakmem/hakmem.html
assbot: Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvAX9 )
assbot: HAKMEM -- CONTENTS -- DRAFT, NOT YET PROOFED ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvDSD )
gabriel_laddel: http://jmc.stanford.edu/articles/neutrinos.html
assbot: Neutrinos ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvC13 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138450 @ 0.00029365 = 40.6558 BTC [+]
menahem: szick, thanks!
menahem realizes you've given him some great fuel. gracias & night.
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2015#1094268 << so much fraud. like claiming credit for the Rule 110 proof of Turing completeness.
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 21:25:19; ascii_field: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141104/NEWS04/141109944/mathematicas-wolfram-sued-accused-of-secretly-recording-calls << l0l! apparently he's still sc4mz0r1ng folks
gabriel_laddel: !up Vexual
gabriel_laddel: !up hktud0
gabriel_laddel: !up joecool
gabriel_laddel: !up CheckDavid
Vexual: hey
Vexual: alf: electrons that don't all move much
Vexual: has anyone actually found a pencil small enough to mark one?
gabriel_laddel: !down Vexual
joecool: gabriel_laddel: bored?
gabriel_laddel: joecool: story of my life.
gabriel_laddel: !s so sick of asciminerism I can't even begin to tell all
assbot: 0 results for 'so sick of asciminerism I can't even begin to tell all' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=so+sick+of+asciminerism+I+can%27t+even+begin+to+tell+all
gabriel_laddel: http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=so+sick+of+I+can%27t+even+begin+to+tell+all
assbot: 1 results for 'so sick of I can't even begin to tell all' - #bitcoin-assets search
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-12-2014#948253
assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 15:50:58; mircea_popescu: im so fucking sick of asicminerism i can't even begin to tell it all.
gabriel_laddel: /s/asicminerism/earth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105700 @ 0.0002942 = 31.0969 BTC [+] {3}
gabriel_laddel: #bitcoin-assets distro update:
gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an overview of the
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Js )
assbot: Masamune ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Jw )
gabriel_laddel: project. I would suggest that no one waste their time working on this for the time being, I've simply cleaned things up on the off chance that I end up in alphabet soup or the like. The remainder of hacking that needs to be done is of the flavor described here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/master/browser/conkeror.lisp
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf6oH )
gabriel_laddel: Adlai ben_vulpes mats ^
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 458 @ 0.00451914 = 2.0698 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096338 << The docview program for Emacs converts .pdfs into .png files for viewing. Use this in 'batch mode' to prep for OCR. Then use ML to extract images, alignment information, resolve citations, authors.
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 01:11:43; Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
gabriel_laddel: The programmatic object returned then can be used on top of something like e.g., CLIM
gabriel_laddel: Which would be sane, and teh hotness.
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2015#1012802 << Seriously looking at linux has convinced me that this must wait until after a stable #-assets distribution and wotnet.
assbot: Logged on 08-02-2015 19:54:52; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you seriously thinking of implementing a sane pgp ?
gabriel_laddel: !up the_scourge
the_scourge: gabriel_laddel: don't need to up me every 30min i'm just lurking on a rainy morning. plus i've got a bunch of coding do to so i won't want to have voice ... i'll end up chatting too much :)
the_scourge: plus look at the logs i've been kickbanned
gabriel_laddel: !down the_scourge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 247900 @ 0.00029453 = 73.014 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-03-2015#1069268 << for the record I was not attempting to "pass off" anything, but rather clearly define what it is that I'm talking about. I'm rather happy to have second-guessed that decision because the correct answer is that the lordship isn't clearly defined outside of what has been posted to trilema and as one who isn't a lord I have no buisness calling it anything other
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 00:25:57; nubbins`: or, what was it the guy tried to pass off? "the peerage"
gabriel_laddel: than "the lordship".
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2015#1054484
assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 02:24:27; asciilifeform: thing was called 'flare'
gabriel_laddel: ^ Amazing that this shmuck (Yudkowsky) has funding.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-03-2015#1050100 << \o *high five sound*
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 12:07:24; Adlai: o/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 184600 @ 0.0002859 = 52.7771 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 155.16184834 BTC. Current weight: 64,464.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 273500 @ 0.00029479 = 80.6251 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095085 <<< wake up before it goes off :P least that is what i've been doing
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 18:16:14; ascii_field: i - age two weeks every time my alarm clock rings.
cazalla: RE: collapse and motor vehicles, seriously now, ya'll want a dirt bike, what fucking use is a car going to be? dirt bike can go anywhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230750 @ 0.0002949 = 68.0482 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai reads the gabriel_laddel manifesto
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51900 @ 0.00029075 = 15.0899 BTC [-]
mats: windows server 2003 EOL in under a hundred days
Chillum: Good morning
Apocalyptic: !up Michail1
Michail1: Heard people in here play with pogoplug. True?
asciilifeform: !s pogo
assbot: 377 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo
Michail1: Thanks.
asciilifeform: Michail1: see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev starting from feb.'15
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev -- redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ and then times out.
Apocalyptic: Michail1, yeah same here, looks like the server is down
asciilifeform: works here
asciilifeform: jurov: ?
Michail1: Ok, you're sucking up all the BW. Let Apocalyptic and me in. :P
Michail1: Strange. works if I go directly to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
assbot: The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqxN0p )
Michail1: Ok, found the issue.
Michail1: Your link was to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev <~~~ no trailing /
Michail1: So, it redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ instead of: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
assbot: The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqxYsC )
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev does not work.
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ does work.
assbot: The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqy7w5 )
asciilifeform: jurov ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172850 @ 0.00029063 = 50.2354 BTC [-] {2}
mats: http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/national/2015/04/fbi_man_plotted_suicide_bomb_attack_at_kansas_military_base_0 USG exploits another mentally unwell person
assbot: FBI: Man plotted suicide bomb attack at Kansas military base | Boston Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1aivASy )
Adlai: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3275k9/daily_discussion_saturday_april_11_2015/cq8ll5j "What is China's trading area called, Great Wall Street?"
assbot: selectorsam comments on [Daily Discussion] Saturday, April 11, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1aiwCxT )
funkenstein_: mats, sounds like "the secret agent" by joseph conrad
mats: nothing fictional or derivative about it
mats: this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook
mats: a shit tsunami of tcpip.sys bugs lies in wait for server 2003 EOL
mats: http://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf intel me overview
ben_vulpes: mats: go to sleep
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel interdasting, i'll look over this
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: holy hell this is a manifesto
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel why are you in particular doomed for the alphabet soup?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: 'lo, sir
gabriel_laddel: good afternoon
funkenstein_: afternoon
funkenstein_: sorry i didn't get through reading the references in the references in the start of your material <-- how slow i am
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: i was under the impression you were in the process of curating a distro, was i mistaken
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: no
gabriel_laddel: the distro has been curated - the development on top of that has not been finished
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097455 << I'm not "doomed to it" anymore than anyone else. But I am looking for someone in the silly valley to pay my bills. When I explain what it is that I'm doing, let's say that this individual truely understands the implications of
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:02:01; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel why are you in particular doomed for the alphabet soup?
gabriel_laddel: "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. Coupled with meaningful extensibility, the unsophisticated interests that have taken ahold of the bureaucratic process of all linux distributions are bypassed. Imagine hunting down 1000s of individuals distributing a less crapp
gabriel_laddel: y linux kernel via sneakernet produced by ? who didn't interface with the kernel devs and originally uploaded his modifications from several drones abandoned on coffee shop rooftops."
gabriel_laddel: They are guaranteed to have an agent one or two handshakes away.
ben_vulpes: nobody's coming after distro authors.
ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase.
gabriel_laddel: I'm not saying that it will happen, merely planning for the unlikely
trinque: regendering << what a time to be alive
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: plan for victory, hedge appropriately.
gabriel_laddel: yep.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: have you heard of la serenissima's insurance policy?
gabriel_laddel: nope, do tell
ben_vulpes: bigger deal than the declaration of sovereignty.
ben_vulpes: http://deedbot.org/350404-1BguzAaZR1j1j3EaAipNtt4xJoroy8V25o.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fyfb57 )
ben_vulpes: ey trinque, d'you have time to get the legacy deeds in this weekend?
gabriel_laddel: impressive.
ben_vulpes: it's be stellar to have them in place before con3.
ben_vulpes: it'd*
trinque: ben_vulpes: yeah I have time today
trinque: doing some work atm but I'll make sure that happens this afternoon
ben_vulpes: thank youuuuuu
trinque: ben_vulpes: as I understand it I'll just take the old deeds and re-bundle them?
trinque: is that what's desired, or should I involve the old transactions somehow
ben_vulpes: buuh you and his popescuity have a better handle on the thing
ben_vulpes: hm
ben_vulpes: well the embedding transactions already went out
ben_vulpes looks at deedbot.org
trinque: embedding?
trinque: arguably this is the first time this deedbot has seen any of these docs, so I don't think it makes sense to use old transactions as the timestamp
ben_vulpes: do you think it'd be adequate to publish the block, the address and the bundle in the same table on deedbot.org?
ben_vulpes: sure, *your* deedbot.
mats: is there a direct equivalent for docview in vim?
trinque: ben_vulpes: I could just make another deed with the original transaction data too
ben_vulpes: sure
ben_vulpes: seems like a waste of btc, but w/e
ben_vulpes: no, actually no.
trinque: I'm saying all as one bundle
ben_vulpes: no no no
trinque: publish them like they're new docs, and put an additional doc in there saying "hey here are the original txns for these"
ben_vulpes: those deeds were published in certain blocks
trinque: ben_vulpes: what what what
ben_vulpes: the block in which a deed was published is actually important
trinque: I am aware of that
mircea_popescu: yeah, they were published in certain blocks, you/re not re-deeding them
ben_vulpes: more rows at the bottom of the table, with block, addr and bundle.
trinque: I'll just add a "from" address column, which is always the same for new bundles, but will be the old address for these
ben_vulpes: did the encoding of deed bundle -> addr hash change between your and punkman's versions of the thing?
trinque: shouldn't have
mircea_popescu: i don't get why you'd do anythin other than a db import
ben_vulpes: why is the "from" address necessary?
trinque: ben_vulpes: strictly speaking it's not, except to answer the question "were these supposed to come from a different address?"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 o.O
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
mircea_popescu: uhh..
mircea_popescu: the address they COME FROM dun matter, just the address they GO TO
mircea_popescu: and that is constructed procedurally, for a reason
mircea_popescu: remember ? people can spend the dust ? so you or anyone knows what address proves any claim ?
ben_vulpes: yes yes yes
trinque: I get it
trinque: I just didn't run the old one, so was going to maybe mark these as having come from the old thing
ben_vulpes: if you want to, deliniate with an <hr /> and a note.
trinque: it's not a big deal
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gotta have a look at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
ben_vulpes: at the same time...it's la serenissima's list of deeds. the notary in question is somewhat irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: craftsman allowed to put a history mark in there, <hr /> is quite reasoanble actually.
trinque: ^
mircea_popescu: no need for a knote. who knowsn knowsn and who doesn't know better go suck some cocks to find out.
trinque: not saying the old one didn't work, just wasn't my work
trinque: easy to verify whether it did too
ben_vulpes: is the dust getting collected?
mircea_popescu: !rated gabriel_laddel
assbot: You have not rated gabriel_laddel.
trinque: ben_vulpes: it's still all out there
trinque: afaik
ben_vulpes: ibd
mircea_popescu: !rate gabriel_laddel 1 http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5e6532f9ff1c1706
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Js )
assbot: Masamune ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nrogq5 )
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gabriel_laddel.1:571f1ba6498d6c3fdb57a76a9bceb507251f88ce8977775e25f165ecfb533340
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gabriel_laddel with note: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel "If you're reading this on github there is a more attractive HTML version here." but "here" IS on github. subdomain.gutrot.io
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: mebbe i dun understand teh terminologies.
ben_vulpes: i think it's a note for people reading via the repository browser
gabriel_laddel: ^ correct.
gabriel_laddel: unless I give someone the direct link, as in here they'll only see it from that code path.
mircea_popescu: oh
gabriel_laddel: anyways, that is confusing and I'll update it
mircea_popescu: was masamune the "good" sword or the bad sword ?
mircea_popescu: funny that all the west knows of a millennium of craftsmanship perfection and perhaps the matrix for all human accomplishment is "but which was the bad one".
gabriel_laddel: It is the good sword. However in the game I stole the reference from - it was the sword of the villain.
mircea_popescu: because yeah, totally, good-evil duality, most important thing that happened. was tom cruise in that ?
gabriel_laddel: yeah, him and Bruce Willis
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you wish to blame someone for the new jersey approach, blame constantine. it is HIS fault he stopped throwing idiots to the lions.
mircea_popescu: the nj dudes were just wasps, an irrelevant, far removed margin of the idiocy pie.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "MOOCS (massively open online courses and the like) have failed due to fundamental issues with their technical perspective - a perspective shared by nearly the entire fiat world. New frontiers have opened, Masamune provides a technical foundation for mission critical programmes of the future."
mircea_popescu: this is vague, and in being vague is shit.
mircea_popescu: what is wrong with "moocs" ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: have you tried to use one?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: or seen their completion rates?
mircea_popescu: seems besides the point, but no and yes.
gabriel_laddel: they're failures.
mircea_popescu: in the "completion rate" sense, esp if ill defined, b-a is a failure.
mircea_popescu: i don't see how it matters. a school which takes 100 7yos, produces 86 dead 18 yos and 14 sane 18yos is best school.
gabriel_laddel: Completion rate is really irrelevent, the problem is that they've created this new "format" and books are still superior.
mircea_popescu: appalling completion rate, but fuck their mothers.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel show, don't tell.
gabriel_laddel: kk, will do
mircea_popescu: and show me right here, at that.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, i could tell you what's fundamentally broken with them :
gabriel_laddel: Let's say that you sign up for a course. You cannot possibly learn anything interesting because they've got to execute all code in the browser, or barring that, you're aping youtube videos.
mircea_popescu: they purport to be learner-driven. this is as idiotic as it gets. education works in the following stages : learner picks a teacher TO SUBMIT TO, blindly. teacher rapes the learner. this is education.
mircea_popescu: in trying to insulate the learner from the hot core of education (the rape), moocs succeed in educating the learner from education altogether,
gabriel_laddel: but what about autodidacts?
gabriel_laddel: I've never had a formal teacher.
mircea_popescu: becoming something in the style of wikipedia : a great way to batten down the ignorance of users. after a mooc they're just as ignorant as before, but now it's much harder to fix.
gabriel_laddel: (well, one that I learned from)
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel autodidacts are a case of split personality
mircea_popescu: in those cases where they exist.
mircea_popescu: look at mats, nut can't even sleep.
mats: hey nao, i got 7 hours yest
mircea_popescu: see, THAT is fundamental. what you're describing is not fundamental in any sense, but merely technical. which may be whats' wrong with them, for that matter
mircea_popescu: mats how's life feel
gabriel_laddel: While I think that the whole submitting to a teacher thing is important in some cases, we have 100ks of people running through e.g., introductory chemistry courses. There are only so many paths to walk.
gabriel_laddel: One should be able to pick up a computer and learn
mircea_popescu: the path analogy is very misleading, imo.
mats: its a relatively nice spring day in new england
mircea_popescu: irl, there exists such a thing as gravity. you can't float broadly over a path. gravity pushes you down into it.
mircea_popescu: in abstract fields, no gravity to be your cruel mistress.
mircea_popescu: same must be provided for you elsewhere for your learning to be a path.
mircea_popescu: this can not be fixed by making the path itself different. it is outside the path. yes chemistry is the same.
mircea_popescu: for a learner to learn it, it's not enough for chemistry to "be".
mircea_popescu: mats nice spring here too, which means cooler o.O and for some reason they call spring autumn.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel if you wish the path analogy, moocs are like tourists : they go "to a foreign country", spend their time between local mcdonalds and local starbucks in the "idiot foreigners" quarter.
mircea_popescu: travel is not tourism. travel is when you have pregnancy scares with local women that do not speak your language.
mircea_popescu: which brings us back to my point : tourist in kenya is not more knowledgeable on "the country of africa" than obama. guy that went through "mooc introduction to chemistry" has NOT been introduced to chemistry.
mircea_popescu: he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry.
mats: autumn? weird.
mircea_popescu: take enough of these you will never ever know anything.
mats: i'm headed out in a bit to check out some MIT exhibits
ben_vulpes: ask them to wire a lightbulb up
mats: where you at whaack
mats: yall don't give MIT kids enough credit. just sayn.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, another important hook is the scientific method. (kuhn's book on the topic is absolutely required here, and really it's 100 pages or some shit.)
trinque: mats: the US is literally idiocracy throughout
mircea_popescu: the scientific method exists to provide support for research BY DENYING RESEARCH. that's all it does : marks wide swaths of perfectly valid human inquiry with a tar brush reading "STUPID SHIT WE DONT CARE LALALA"
mircea_popescu: this is of course silly, in the abstract. in practice, it's the only way to have research, by cutting paths out of the unknown.
mircea_popescu: the kid who wants to go "in all directions" just ends up making wall pizza
ben_vulpes: eerie parallel to the "disqualifying bad teachers" thread.
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, moocs are made for the wiki generation of broken heads, and a necessary outgrowth from the brokedness baked in the pseudo-encyclopedism.
ben_vulpes: "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim.
mats: trinque: underestimating dangerous people is how clever folks get killed all the time.
trinque: eh?
mircea_popescu: mats how's the mit grad dangerous ?
ben_vulpes: lol mit kids are dangerous now?
mircea_popescu: well... "danger to himself and others"...
trinque: my comment was sarcastic; I'm sure there are those at MIT that can manage a lightbulb
ben_vulpes: the notion that google/facebook/mentorgraphics/ibm feeder schools produce dangerous individuals is *laughable*
mats: i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir.
ben_vulpes: precisely.
ben_vulpes: feeder schools for the meatrobot farms.
ben_vulpes: MIT killed Schwartz.
mircea_popescu: uh. this is like saying "these drama nerds are very sexy, i know one writing for sex in the city"
mircea_popescu: that's... not how it works.
mircea_popescu: !up sinetekVII
ben_vulpes: all of the other smart kids now know - MIT murders those who step out of line.
mats: presuming there is not one functioning brain in the lot is fantasy.
ben_vulpes: best go to reed or something.
ben_vulpes: "not one functioning brain" << oversimplification
mircea_popescu: mats the presumption is merely that any remaining brains are there IN SPITE of mit
mircea_popescu: not because of it. that's all.
ben_vulpes: moreover, MIT isn't producing more "functioning brains"
mircea_popescu: but less.
ben_vulpes: but simulacra that pass the sniff test at palantir and other usg sinecure production theaters
mircea_popescu: fuck knows what palantir actually does.
mircea_popescu: dubious if even the head has a clear picture. mebbe,
trinque: persuade the usg to cut them fat checks
ben_vulpes: procures and doles out usg cash. what else does one need to know?
mircea_popescu: well, that's the function, financially, whatever. i mean you know, in its own privacy.
mats: what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT
ben_vulpes: writes haskell, wanks in ever more theatrical ways, no doubt.
mats: and its nothing to scoff at. even for a second.
mats: underestimate at your own peril
mircea_popescu: so i should be careful with my windows 7 - ready laptop around them ?
ben_vulpes: zing
mircea_popescu: i've been there yo. i lived half a year in lowell, mass. i ate half my meals in the house of professors there. i know the place, as it happens.
mircea_popescu: unless they found some sort of unction in the intervening decade, you can't find a single soul on the entire communist autonomous enclave of cambridge that can speak latin.
mats: lowell is the anus of greater boston, yo.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: 6.2.3 has some bogus character formatting
mircea_popescu: lol is it ?
mircea_popescu: at the time they were spending massively on some sort of "re-whatever" urban thing. turned a bunch of the old mills into artist lofts and whatnot
mircea_popescu: (middlesex college has better tail, btw).
mircea_popescu: http://mxcc.edu/future-students/ < http://mxcc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Benefits-of-Community-College-You-May-Not-Have-Thought-About-300x228.jpg
assbot: Middlesex Community College - Middletown, CT ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynCxh )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynEoX )
mircea_popescu: shit, wrong one. wtf.
ben_vulpes: trinque: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html << 6.2.5 speaks to our shared visions of corporation as research/engineering labs
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynIFh )
mircea_popescu: https://www.middlesex.mass.edu/ sadly no lulzy picture of words.
assbot: Middlesex Community College - Homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynQ7E )
trinque: ben_vulpes: this writeup is triggering my end-user-programming ptsd
mircea_popescu: he really got something there.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i hope you appreciate i hit you over the head because i like you.
ben_vulpes: i've gleaned some useful stuff from this.
ben_vulpes: mostly that curating a distro and then building a lispy "os" on it is a bugger of a task.
ben_vulpes: (also that SLY exists)
trinque: ben_vulpes: 6.1 was eric's thought on the matter as well
trinque: that the right computing environment would just naturally de-derp the user
trinque: I have my doubts
mircea_popescu: "The technical apartheid."
trinque: mircea_popescu: my old boss called it the "end-user/developer divide."
mircea_popescu: ^ lulzy. naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret
mircea_popescu: so... you do in fact agree self directed doesn't work, and the shit has to be stomped out. just don't wanna say it.
trinque: I agree 100%
mircea_popescu: trinque there's definitely something to it. taking people out of a social context which forces and incentivizes them to be stupid usually results in shock, and then significant improvement.
ben_vulpes: #b-a in a nutshell.
trinque: anything I know is because I had mentors yelling at me and/or my work over my career so far
mircea_popescu: kinda how "brainwashing" in the harem works. or body washing, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: "i can't believe i'm losing all this weight. i am eating way more than b4"
trinque: how could the student know how to construct a scenario which will teach him something he does not yet know
trinque: maybe accidentally, but that's about it
mircea_popescu: ... rather than provide for him the illusion that he has something new while saving him the effort by merely renaming the old shit in his head.
mircea_popescu: self directed learning is like declaratory gender. "i am a woman now". "i am a chemist now". wd eh.
mircea_popescu: " oil, refineries " << spurious comma at least.
mircea_popescu: footnote 2 is at best confused, and fails to make its point.
mircea_popescu: regarding the following questions: [basic, sensible questions] … doth not work, for one.
mircea_popescu: " Prior to this, the IRS scandal, and currently the administration is refusing to take action on the illegal immigration problem. " << the main clause lost its verb.
mircea_popescu: whole thing looks to me like so much emotion flailing to find expression.
mircea_popescu: Googling "Leeland Yee", "California IOU", "Keith Jackson" or "mexican gangs" paints a rather grim picture. << i thought the web was broken.
trinque: I think this self directed learning thing is just a reaction against having shitty universities; I know that's what motivated me to work on something similar
mircea_popescu: ow sheit look at that. linking to... "the myspace anyone can edit" from your foundational document ? what happens if tomorrow that thing reads "laddel eats c0ks lawl" ?
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, which i insist on the score. the way the brokedness system has propagated itself since at least hamilton, ie two centuries ago,
mircea_popescu: is the carefully managed "reaction to".
mircea_popescu: if you think about how a split is driven into wood, i mean the newtonian mechanics underlying the process, you have the model ready : each advancement of the split is a "reaction to" one side or the other overbalancing.
mircea_popescu: you can waltz straight to the devil on x axis by bouncing from -1 to +1 on the y axis.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel " I've assembled some quotes from Wikipedia which paint, from what I could tell, an accurate picture," what is the meaning of "from what i could tell" in that sentence ? because the follow-up, "I've lived in the US for 22 years and heard nothing about" seems essentially an appeal to ignorance. but that aside, how does the "From what i could tell" construct emerge here ?
mircea_popescu: people don't want to sign code, even code they've written. trinque doesn't want to vouch for bundles he inherited. yet you're willing to vouch for this. why and how come ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "this" the distro?
mircea_popescu: no, this the excerpt.
ben_vulpes: ah
mircea_popescu: "africa is still trying to work around the genetic/epigenetic/cultural relationship that leads the inhabitants to destroy anything resembling order."
mircea_popescu: africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered.
mircea_popescu: kinda the subhuman indolence discussed in http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/whyantiint.htm is its problem. not teh "violent disorder".
assbot: Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( http://bit.ly/1DUukCU )
mircea_popescu: rhodesia is the informative example on this topic. the white guys could survive the attack of outside blacks with the support of the inside blacks, even as the outsiders were being sponsored by the usual "helpers".
mircea_popescu: if you can spend half your tiem on your farm and half the time shooting socialists in the head and still be a region leader, clearly the region's not much of a challenge in the first place.
mircea_popescu: !up williamdunne
mircea_popescu: an' all that's really missing is someone willing to go to the trouble.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_modem
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel see, the djikstra quotes are great. because they are SOMEONE.
mircea_popescu: i propose, broadly, that nobody ever cites wikipedia, in any context. for this exact reason : source needed.
mircea_popescu: "knowledge" without source is gunk. ideally the source is a pgp signature. absent that, it may be a name pre 1980.
mircea_popescu: but people we don't know from before 1980 MAY NOT EVER BE CITED unless they get in wot.
ascii_modem: in old town dc / seppukuras bloom / but no sword have we.
ascii_modem: ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat?
mircea_popescu: to go with the "how to fight pseudoscience : ignore it" stuff on trilema.
mircea_popescu: lol maybe his pussy.
mircea_popescu: I once knew a girl, she was very smart. she went to mit, and never came back.
mircea_popescu: no wait.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: What about using citations found on WikiPedia from somewhat credible sources (post 1980) that lack PGP sigs?
mircea_popescu: I knew a girl once, she was very smart. She went to mit, then returned but never came back.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne someone late may not be credible if they do not get in the wot.
mircea_popescu: someone early may be excused because the word did not exist, is all.
mircea_popescu: "exactly like the bible was driven. before was before, but this is after."
mircea_popescu: "During the last decades the American Departments of Computing Science have severely suffered from a discrepancy between what society asked for and what society needed, but, be it slowly, the gap seems to be closing."
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: mr d is fortunate to have never considered "social studies" seriously.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163250 @ 0.00029545 = 48.2322 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: \\
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150120 @ 0.00029247 = 43.9056 BTC [-]
whaack: MIT duped a bunch of old guys to give us ~1,000 coins. Sure there are many "bad apples" but MP is definitely hating. Idk what's up with the lightbulb video it is a selected subset for the segment IMO
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172100 @ 0.00029703 = 51.1189 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: whaack for all we know it's actors.
mircea_popescu: i've never irl met anyone who couldn't actually light a bulb.
whaack: right, that is not realistic
mircea_popescu: still - ars longa, vita brevis. betting on ignorance is always safe.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that they are selling themselves wrongly : as an achievement rather than as an attempt. which is what allows stuff like that video to *denote*, whether it describes or not.
mircea_popescu: and that problem is present, and that problem is the deep reason i despise mit as an intellectual approach.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure it's why everyone else here, too.
mircea_popescu: you follow ?
whaack: oh definitely, that is a great way to word how I feel about MIT too
mircea_popescu: so there we go.
whaack: it's marketed that way due to the widespread lack of self-confidence in the community
mircea_popescu: now what might be the cause of that.
mircea_popescu: sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt.
mircea_popescu: to a sadly larger degree however, the mit graudates' professed confidence rings hollow, like the posturings of the tiny dicked.
mircea_popescu: the important part of that video isn't even (to my critical eye) the "light a bulb" segment. the important part is the opening sequence. a dweeb dweebing about how "we are the premiere bla bla". o yeah ?
mircea_popescu: well for one, rhetorics is more than praxis, it's also the voice. that is NOT how you speak, if you even know what speech is.
mircea_popescu: but he doesn't. why does he do it then ?
mircea_popescu: oh, shall we excuse him because well... he didn't say premiere humanities, he said premiere technical, and this distinction is actually a thing ?
mircea_popescu: if we shall excuse him for this, then why is he speaking at all ? he should show, right ? he's a technical guy, riught ? how come the only way his technical achievement reaches me is through rhetorics ?
mircea_popescu: it's a sort of self-parody, that thing. the lightbulb segment merely drives this point home to people who aren't accustomed withj judging discourse : the guys are making total fools of themselves. the way they do it reminds the way the original guy did it.
mircea_popescu: it's really a very well constructed piece, what with this classical parts of discourse, reinforcements of thesis etc approach. the guy that made it handshakes with me, and that's why i believe the piece to be important. it's not a matter of the wikified "was it or wasn't it", totalitarian superficialism. it's that the guy that made it clearly knows what he should be saying, and how.
whaack: well for starters the person who winds up on the podium is going to be the one who spent his time trying to make sure he was on the podium instead of doing something interesting, so he/she will always be amongst the least interesting people at MIT
mircea_popescu: and this can possibly excuse mit ?
mircea_popescu: sounds a lot more like an indictment.
whaack: also, he is likely stating this to try to fight against "sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt." Whether or not he's having an internal struggle and displaying it or trying to help others with their internal struggles idk, probably the former lol
mircea_popescu: i do not read in the original speaker even the faintest glimmer of intellectual life.
mircea_popescu: he is simply making stuff out of masticated wood pulp, like a wasp
mircea_popescu: "because it's what's done. because it's what was always done. citation needed."
mircea_popescu: a more grievous insult to what mit aims to pretend it is could not be devised. even if they invited elena ceausescu to hold that podium.
mircea_popescu: an earthworm taped to an empty box at the grocer's is at least unrelated to academia, rather than the exact opposite of it. they would have been better served by the earthworm.
whaack: right, but you collect a lot of people into the group "mit" The people who are in charge of running the quasi-religious graduation ceremony are logically always going to be the ones who are not pursuing interesting shit
whaack: About half the students don't show up to this stuff, and when they do it's just because it's a place to socialize while someone is rambling in the background
mircea_popescu: why logically ?
mircea_popescu: that's the crux here. why "logically" ?
whaack: because if you are deeply invested in research you have no time for the podium shenanagins, so it logically follows that those who are not deeply invested in research are the ones who do have time for podium shenanagins
mircea_popescu: so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ?
mircea_popescu: division of labour is one thing. thought however... now that's indivisible.
whaack: so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ? << I'm confused what you're saying
mircea_popescu: i am saying that historically kids that could add were excused from having to express themselves on the very flimsy grounds that "hey, not like they went to vassar, they're technical minds". hence the humanities-technicals division.
mircea_popescu: now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ?
mircea_popescu: like alf's meta-nsa ?
whaack: now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ? << basically, yes
mircea_popescu: like, you know, "my real self hasn't shown up yet" ?
mircea_popescu: seems a diseased state.
mircea_popescu: imo society would be better off with a lot of conjugally abused women ("but you don't know him like i do!") and functioning institutions
mircea_popescu: than with no conjugal arrangements to speask of and institutionally abused people ("but you don't know mit like i do!")
mircea_popescu: wtf even is all this cancer.
mircea_popescu: ssergorp or something.
hanbot: brandworld problems. the moment people care more about being associated with the group than doing the group's work, groupname is a lost cause.
mircea_popescu: used to be. not anymore, thanks to wot etc, but myeah.
mircea_popescu: still, a significant bias against anyone that offers their being a mit graduate does attach. one necessarily thinks "so this kid is dumb or what."
mircea_popescu: even if they appear smart, that flaw is hard to wash. "he's dumb at least some times, apparently..."
whaack: So... do you hold it against me for even revealing that I'm a student there?
mircea_popescu: i don't particularly care, but doesn't it make you yourself wonder ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, to answer the general question : biases are a statistic concept, they are meaningful when discussing groups, not individuals. for all i know you're there to troll them, or the only pipe you can get water to your house in happens to be rusted, what are you to do, be without water at all ? gotta wash etc.
mircea_popescu: moreover,without specific cause, why would i judge the affairs of another to begin with ?
mircea_popescu: you can be the dean of aids-is-cured-by-raping-virgin-infants university of harare for all i care.
whaack: so revealing I go to MIT, for the most part, commands the respect of ignorant people
whaack: so instead of "he's dumb at least some times, apparently.." you may want to think "is this fucker insulting me?"
mircea_popescu: well if you do it inappropriately it may well command the disdain of thinking people.
mircea_popescu: everyone's dumb at least some of the time.
mircea_popescu: what exactly would be insulting about you going to mit ?
mircea_popescu: i go to fratelli icecream parlour, does that insult you ?
whaack: I'm saying that some ignorant people exalt those who go to MIT
whaack: so, if for whatever reason I want the respect of an ignorant person, I may reveal to them that I go to MIT
mircea_popescu: well, kinda poisoned. you don't generally want the respect of ignorant people on their own terms, but on yours.
mircea_popescu: if you allow them to respect you on their own terms you end up buying into their stupidity sooner or later.
whaack: right this is something I've realized / been coming to terms with only recently
whaack: (sadly)
mircea_popescu: you got plenty of time,
mircea_popescu: for tomorrow, you die.
whaack: your words hit hard, gonna copy that one
mircea_popescu: !up e63
whaack: ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key))
mircea_popescu: great conversation piece
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097448 << sadly.
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 17:09:13; mats: this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097470 << werd.
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:14:20; ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase.
mircea_popescu: and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" and why is it that the retarded seem to be particularly offended at whatever you happened to write last.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the bear wondering why he's not getting any milk and the shepherd dogs bark.
mircea_popescu: "if only you were a sheep" "but i'm to big to be a sheep!" "nevertheless" "but sheep don't get milk anyway" "well... they're in the general area of where cheese is made..."
mircea_popescu: logic.
mircea_popescu: "So what is power? According to our friend Thomas Hobbes: servants, friends, riches, reputation, success, affability, nobility, eloquence, and being handsome." sheeit i had forgotten that definition.
mircea_popescu: it actually is not even half bad.
mircea_popescu: SFRRSANE&BH
mircea_popescu: sfrr, sane & bh.
mircea_popescu: (much funnier in romanian, where sfrr is an onomatopeia for sizzle, as in a steak's sizzle, and thus implicitly a pars pro toto reference to "servants, friends, riches, reputation", ie the steak's sizzle.)
mircea_popescu: with expressions like "nici o sfiriala" =lit "no sizzle" = no big deal.
ben_vulpes reviews the logs
ben_vulpes: it's the mircea_popescu show!
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: irc is the largest challenge to blogging i ever saw.
ben_vulpes: anyways nonzero odds my grandmother passes during con3
mircea_popescu: well... "irc". assbot-wot-irc.
ben_vulpes: specifically #bitcoin-assets, and that only this year.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu is out of grandparents.
ben_vulpes: this is the last biological one i have
ben_vulpes: and the second to pass while i'm in argentina, if things do play out that way.
mircea_popescu: well here's to not.
ben_vulpes: had an amusing conversation with a "transhumanist" the other day about life extension. counterparty had the notion that somehow we'd seen the limits of the body but not the limits of the brain. i asked if this person had actually ever watched an elderly person go through terminal decline, and the answer was of course "no".
mircea_popescu: See, 3D Labs was a dying company. Their expensive GPUs were being marginalized by NVIDIA's increasing pressure on the workstation market. And unlike NVIDIA, 3D Labs did not have any presence in the mainstream market; if NVIDIA won, they died.
mircea_popescu: Which they did.
mircea_popescu: So, in a bid to remain relevant in a world that didn't want their products, 3D Labs showed up to a Game Developer Conference wielding presentations for something they called "OpenGL 2.0". This would be a complete, from-scratch rewrite of the OpenGL API. And that makes sense; there was a lot of cruft in OpenGL's API at the time (note: that cruft still exists). Just look at how texture loading and binding work; it's semi
mircea_popescu: -arcane.
mircea_popescu: dude...
ben_vulpes: somehow to this person body and brain are separate things. this person who's never actually watched the terminal trainwreck of cascading failures.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes and this person was under 30, and had never taken a virgin asshole, or planted a tree or butchered as much as a rabbit, couldn't put together a disassembled weapon of their choice if they had the whole day
mircea_popescu: and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr.
ben_vulpes: heh mas o menos
mircea_popescu: (pro tip : if you get your job from the hr dept you suck. real men get their jobs from the ceo.)
ben_vulpes: does actually know how to leverage meatwot for work, could probably put a bolt action together, but that's about it.
mircea_popescu: and to never pass on a good sexist joke : real women, too.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> well here's to not. << happens to all of us, no sense derping about when or under what conditions.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187450 @ 0.00029744 = 55.7551 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <whaack> ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key)) << you only have the one addr, and plan to tell folks about it?
ben_vulpes: <ascii_modem> ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat? << 'tis a tentacle of the beast slithering out of the lake, seeking to fasten its suckers onto and drag under those who'd otherwise fight by my side
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 449 @ 0.00251001 = 1.127 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, mod6 (others tracking the DNS seed thread as well): i'd like to hear from you all as well
mircea_popescu: that js at google "leaked email" thing is retarded.
mircea_popescu: first off, the ios bs is no thread to the web. second off, the web's reach was never a major factor. third off, the web is failing, on its dismerits, but those have exactly nothing to do with javascript.
mircea_popescu: fourth, js was never a significant or worthy of mention part of the web, at no stage in its lifecycle and certainly not during "infancy".
mircea_popescu: fifth, the "web designer community" is ~= vc bezzle. it has exactly nothing to do with the web, relevancy, the future or anything else.
mircea_popescu: and i could go on but whatevs. not like we're writing the encyclopedia of stupid.
mircea_popescu: !up williamdunne
mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot williamdunne
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user williamdunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/williamdunne | http://w.b-a.link/user/williamdunne
williamdunne: Thank you
mircea_popescu: !rate williamdunne 1 new blood
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a22aaa1730ad9108
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.williamdunne.1:6f842a3ee562affa0e377e4854d8c2a068b5464a0bb241fec1ff5a28c232aa96
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for williamdunne with note: new blood
williamdunne: So the b-a WoT is separate to the b-otc WoT
mircea_popescu: yes.
williamdunne: And yeah, JS has always been about sacrificing security/performance for UX
mircea_popescu: "ux".
williamdunne: Well yes, most of the time they take it overboard and it ends up being a suicidal ordeal
mircea_popescu: dux, more properly said. "interface with the stupid users". while i see a clear reason why all women should twerk, whether they like to or not, i see no reason any computer should ever twerk, whether women want them to or not.
mircea_popescu: currently this situation is ass-backwards.
williamdunne: "how do i use mpex - i think the css is broken1"
mircea_popescu: i should probably put a "if you don't see the css, please get the latest version of your browser"
mircea_popescu: drive people nuts.
williamdunne: "please install internet explorer 6"
mircea_popescu: "mpex is from the future. you need internet exploder 28 to view its css v 9 1/3"
williamdunne: However that sort of tomfoolery might lose you your "slightly smoky dragon" award
mircea_popescu: " The ability to incrementally develop programs (featured in the first video) has been a cornerstone feature of Lisp since the 80s (or earlier). " << you know this is the only way i like to program in the rare cases i actually do ?
mircea_popescu: lol
williamdunne: Yes I can remember reading something by you about the stupidity of beautiful code
williamdunne: Or at least of having beautiful code being prioritized over functional code
mircea_popescu: mebbe
assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 10000 @ 0.000206 = 2.06 BTC [-]
williamdunne: Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 157550 @ 0.00029285 = 46.1385 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: once the blog's back remind me an' i'll link you.
williamdunne: Thank you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 301100 @ 0.00029719 = 89.4839 BTC [+] {2}
williamdunne: Is the source for the WoT available? If I have some free time I'd like to take a crack at making it more readable
felipelalli: !rate mircea_popescu 2 "his articles are great and fully of truth"
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a198584104efc51a
felipelalli: williamdunne: "Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?" << I wonder the same.
felipelalli: williamdunne: this was for me the icing on the cake.
williamdunne: Gotta love some hedging
asciilifeform: re: the mit thing:
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846759 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846760
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:43; asciilifeform: sussman, surrendering to decay:
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:44; asciilifeform: 'You have to do basic science on your libraries to see how they work, trying out different inputs and seeing how the code reacts.'
williamdunne: If anyone is looking for a keybase.io invite hit me up
asciilifeform: ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe.
asciilifeform: williamdunne: we don't want invite to coprophagic restaurant either...
williamdunne: To each his own, while its certainly not a WoT it seems useful to me
williamdunne: (It is not meant to be WoT)
asciilifeform: williamdunne: keybase and friends (usg in the broadest possible sense) can read your mail and sign as you.
asciilifeform: if this satisfies you, why are you even bothering with crypto
williamdunne: I don't store by GPG keys on Keybase...
asciilifeform: to continue with mit thread: and to answer whaack's question: yes being associated with modern mit (vs 1980s and prior) is a serious strike against you. especially if you 'succeed' there. or, heaven help you, employed therein
asciilifeform: to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so.
asciilifeform: virtually 100% envirowhinerism, 'solutions' for the turd world, or 'accomplishments' of the Officially Sad
asciilifeform: nothing even remotely SICP like.
asciilifeform: since 1990 or so.
asciilifeform: and yes i wanted to probe ben_vulpes before saying all of this.
asciilifeform: see how much his picture overlapped with mine.
asciilifeform: but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard.
asciilifeform: and wish to see it demolished, the earth - salted, the inhabitants - lowered into pederasty
asciilifeform: folks who went there - either of these or any other top academies of usg - by all rights ought to pretend to have spent their youth in jail or army.
williamdunne: Both of which cost less
asciilifeform: suppose you meet a chemist who enthusiastically studied and 'succeeded' - top marks! - under elena ceausescu.
asciilifeform: or a biologist - under lysenko.
asciilifeform: what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:asciilifeform you gotta have a look at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 << gabriel_laddel has good summaries of things, but i must confess that i am not particularly interested in 'lispy unix' as i consider it coprophagic pizza.
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
asciilifeform: trimming down a unixlike to run therealbitcoin and other traditional proggies that we're stuck with - is one thing
asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.
mats: 22:22:28 <+asciilifeform> ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe. << link?
asciilifeform: mats: linked shortly below in one of the linked log threads
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry. << a more or less complete description of most american 'education' on most-any subject today.
asciilifeform: not just at university level, either.
asciilifeform: mats: i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir. << i imagine you know what takes place there.
mats: its not linked, but i did find it by querying the fragment http://wingolog.org/archives/2009/03/24/international-lisp-conference-day-two
assbot: international lisp conference -- day two -- wingolog ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXDJsm )
asciilifeform: (palantir holds the title for best nameable candidate for meta-nsa. in that they are known to produce the tools which actually work, and - not being part of civil service hierarchy - are free to actually pay programmers something like real money)
asciilifeform: when i say 'meta-nsa' - again it does not meant that every bipedal amoebal 'success organism' drawing pay there is a brilliant master
asciilifeform: most folks in any large organization whatsoever are chaff.
mats: yes, thats why i mentioned it. as a word of caution about respecting the enemy.
mats: sometimes i wonder if folks in here have spent too much time battling midgets and have forgotten what its like to fight a man.
whaack: to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so. << as was expressed in my conversation with mp, mit's press facade is different than its internals. Much like bitcoin
asciilifeform: mats: man appears to fight mainly by swinging midgets like hammer
asciilifeform: (why - ask him, not me)
mats: lol.
asciilifeform: whaack: ultimately 'you are what you pretend to be, so choose carefully what to pretend to be'
asciilifeform: this applies to mit, usg, rome, whoever.
decimation: mats: http://madsciencedefense.com/2014-hand-to-hand-study/ < turns out us military has used hand-to-hand more often than one might think
assbot: The 2014 Hand-to-Hand StudyMad Science Defense ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXEpy1 )
decimation: "216 out of 1,226 Soldiers (19.0%) reported using hand-to-hand combat skills in at least one encounter. The Soldiers’ descriptions indicated that hand-to-hand combat occurred in a variety of tactical situations "
mats: of course. USG spent the last decade in iraq fighting in hovels.
asciilifeform: how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ?
mats: 'combatives' are an essential part of training. especially in MOUT.
decimation: “The second lesson incorporated from the PAIs was that Soldiers in OEF and OIF reported that their hand-to-hand combat encounters revolved around a contest over the Soldier’s weapon (e.g., rifle). It appears that a Soldier’s opponent regularly attempted to wrest control of the Soldier’s weapon during hand-to-hand combat encounters.”
mats: (military operations in urban terrain)
asciilifeform: mats: what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT << i find it peculiar that anyone would expect to encounter any concentration of such folks in the flesh, for the most part anywhere
mats: i didn't expect it, i sought them out
asciilifeform: what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen
asciilifeform: prestige farms draw narcissists, 'news at 11.'
mats: if not to learn from them, then to identify useful assets
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/03/campbell_harvey.html < a wider indictment of academia
assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBi8Wn )
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 237.73, Best ask: 237.89, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 237.82, 24 hour volume: 18095.46381514, 24 hour low: 233.72, 24 hour high: 240.58, 24 hour vwap: None
decimation: "So the sort of papers that are published in psychology, over 92% of them are, 'Oh, here's a hypothesis; I did an experiment; and I get support.' So that is a problem. Because it leads to people essentially data mining to find a result to find a result and then getting it published. "
asciilifeform: decimation: iirc they recently abandoned the very concept of 'p-value' in its entirety.
asciilifeform: because 'our pheeeelingz matter'
asciilifeform: damnatio memoriae.
asciilifeform: everyone responsible - straight to butugychag.
decimation: "What worries me is that some of these findings that are found with the big data and the data miners, that people look at the findings and then only after the finding, they concoct a story or a theory, develop ex post some intuition, as to why this should work. And I think that's dangerous. I prefer to work on the basis of first principles: what is reasonable."
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is merely the top concern among such meat processing plants, just as mcdonalds is a leader but sole player in the recycled-food field.
whaack: what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen << my point is the showmen are simply the loudest
asciilifeform: i choose to place the fall of mit as the moment when sicp fell
asciilifeform: just as the fall of rome is pinned to the particular overthrow where it is traditionally pinned
asciilifeform: though both edifices were rotten quite thoroughly to the core long prior.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i labored a bottom-tier version of same. if that place was as it was, MIT must be even more so.
ben_vulpes: at* a
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my first gig out of school was at an abominable usg-contracting salt mine where little gurlz straight out of mit, for that fact alone, were promoted, repeatedly, over everyone else's head
asciilifeform: revoltingly studious think-in-the box bitches, just as you might imagine
ben_vulpes can readily see it
ben_vulpes: i studied with many of the like. getting them to think outside of the box was not worth the time as there was no prerequisite dicksucking going along with it.
asciilifeform: it was even more of a circus:
asciilifeform: as you may know, i live nowhere near mit. there were two offices. one, in cambridge, contained these masturbators, where they played with (largely nonfunctional) robots all day. whereas ours did the - predominantly deadly boring - work which actually paid the bills.
asciilifeform: but enough of salt mines. i mention it because it was my first wake-up call that something happened to the mythical 'mecca' which i respected for 'having produced lisp machine and sicp'
asciilifeform: before this, i only knew of mit at all from books.
asciilifeform: it was a quasi-mythological animal in my mind, like library of alexandria
asciilifeform: *not sole player in recycled food
decimation: asciilifeform: example of such an mit gurl > http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/863.08/people/nadya/
assbot: how to make almost anything ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBj5Ot )
asciilifeform: decimation: no shortage of these
decimation: she apparently spends her time coming up with python code to control motors
decimation: as a 'graduate student'
asciilifeform: decimation: have you -met- a modern graduate student ?
asciilifeform: if the code is not plagiarized wholesale, this puts her above 99% of'em.
decimation: heh good point
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase. mircea_popescu: and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" << a large part of the purpose of current mit is to produce the folks who will produce these patches.
asciilifeform: they are not, as someone might suppose, dead weight;
asciilifeform: rather, they are politruks.
asciilifeform: and there is to be one in every office, lab, bus, train, - elevator.
asciilifeform: never out of earshot of a Party member.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: I love this article: http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/ do you keep this opinion?
assbot: Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca77d8 )
asciilifeform: ;;isup trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is down
felipelalli: it's not just you! http://trilema.com looks down from here.
assbot: Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8nPcr )
asciilifeform: felipelalli: it was unplugged (see mircea_popescu's explanation last night) and evidently not yet rehosted.
felipelalli: asciilifeform: thanks.
felipelalli: !gettrust asciilifeform
assbot: Trust relationship from user felipelalli to user asciilifeform: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 7 via 6 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/felipelalli/asciilifeform | http://w.b-a.link/user/asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr. << i have never once found work through an 'hr'. this is not uncommon among my meatwot. (not a magical feat by any means at any rate.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo? << the initial nodes must be us.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: can't speak for others, but i refuse to consider the leaking turd usable in any sense whatsoever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160000 @ 0.00029166 = 46.6656 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/blob/master/browser/conkeror.lisp << why?!>!!?
assbot: masamune/conkeror.lisp at master · gabriel-laddel/masamune · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBkHrs )
mircea_popescu: <williamdunne> Is the source for the WoT available? << if you mean, how to interact with assbot ? it's in wiki.
mircea_popescu: !h
assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097925 << not that bad if you're black, tho.
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:29:20; asciilifeform: but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard.
decimation: ben_vulpes: looks like they rolled ERC into the new emacs (24.5)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853306 ?
assbot: Logged on 01-10-2014 11:58:20; mircea_popescu: if i were black in the us i would be fucking worried for my children. being ~10% of the population and >50% of the public discourse is how the hasidim suddenly disappeared from history.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097931 << one of the brightest minds in an XX body i ever met had finished her thesis under romania's most inept "logician", cca 1988. the woman was not significantly harmed by a half decade's internship with that bootmaker in disguise.
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:31:41; asciilifeform: what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ?
mircea_popescu: the thing is, romania at the time had a very specific atmosphere, one that protected such people in such situaitons like al oxides protect the al.
asciilifeform: happens!
asciilifeform: i, for instance, happen to believe that soviet mathematics will not be equalled for the next 500 years.
asciilifeform: (yes, pulled number from my prophetic sphincter.)
asciilifeform: and it worked on precisely this 'oxide' principle.
mircea_popescu: which is why despising mit as a group is so important : people who despise their inept professors may survive them even when forced by events to work there.
asciilifeform can only with great difficulty picture anyone 'forced' to partake of mit, but allows for the sake of argument.
mircea_popescu: similarly, but in the other direction, abject slaves that nevertheless unwholesomely despise their superior masters remain abject irrespective of time spent in slavery thereof.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so don't have children. problem solved.
asciilifeform thinks it will be a hilarious cosmic joke if the sharashka he is worked to death in happens to be built at mit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which problem
mircea_popescu: seems only fare. i mean fire. i mean pharoh.
mircea_popescu: fair, whatever.
mircea_popescu: the children problem. ten lines up.
asciilifeform: aha that one.
asciilifeform: i would observe that everyone presently in good favour of usg by virtue of their 'passport data' - skin, gonads, etc. - runs the risk of ending up weimar-jewed
asciilifeform: if events take a sudden turn.
mircea_popescu: ironically, the jewish situation... oh gawd. at the time of the holocaust, the hasidim were arguably the most advanced troop in the world. certainly > 90% of jewry by cultural and intellectual weight, if 50% or so by mass. for all the squalor of the old manhattan, which is what eastern europe was, the place rocked.
mircea_popescu: then the nazis wiped them, modern jewry is in this situation where someone cut the flower, kept the stalk in a vase.
mircea_popescu: not only very very sad as it decays... but also mindboggling.
asciilifeform: is the last yidish newspaper in brooklyn out of print yet?
mircea_popescu: either a decade ago or a decade hence, but yeah.
asciilifeform was last there in '01, shortly pre-bigboom, and it was in business
asciilifeform: mainly shipped to old folks' homes though
mircea_popescu: yeah, but in 2001 you could not find a better newspaper in new york.
mircea_popescu: and that was 2001. long, long before the greenwaldization, long long before the pr-intern and dumb-blonde-chick-from-minessota that eventually yielded its own bastardized meta-story eventually apotheosized in that horseface dumbass...
mircea_popescu: pretty decayed, yes, but nowhere near today's.
asciilifeform: the seeds of all of it were not only in the ground, but long sprouted and budding leaves.
mircea_popescu: sure, no argument. nevertheless, there was still ground.
asciilifeform: al schwartz observed the signs in '94 up
mircea_popescu: and on that ground that there was, nyt could not compete.
mircea_popescu: funny that newspapers survived mad koontz but did not survive vint cerf.
mircea_popescu: btw, was http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389 here ? i forget.
assbot: Google's Vint Cerf warns of 'digital Dark Age' - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV78o6 )
asciilifeform: iirc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116387 @ 0.00028979 = 33.7278 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: insulting to the intelligence of anyone who watched google usenet archive decay
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097935 << it's a draft, eh.
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:36:29; asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, you think usenet was salvageable ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hybrid of oxcart and airplane, where we progressively remove pieces of the ox yoke - uninteresting to me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: salvageable in the preserve-in-ice sense
mircea_popescu: ok, one at a time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am at this point convinced that google killed it deliberately.
whaack: to end the discussion of mit O, "MIT Technology Review" http://www.technologyreview.com/view/524666/bitcoin-lacks-the-properties-of-a-real-currency/
assbot: Bitcoin Lacks the Properties of a Real Currency | MIT Technology Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV7kDG )
mircea_popescu: the guy's draft : nothing has been construted. let him draw.
asciilifeform: the folks who were making fools of themselves on usenet now want to be usg brass
asciilifeform: so it was time to desaparecer the spew.
mircea_popescu: the usenet : you can not "preserve in ice". this requires two naive presupositions : one that the text is self contained, the other that the text is fixed. neither is true.
mircea_popescu: much like any living organism, the text can only be interpreted in its environment (here - the people who wrote it), and only as a functional, living thing.
mircea_popescu: otherwise...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fact is, there was a pretty useful and fairly complete snapshot in the ice. and now i look in the cryostat and find rotting gibblets and alive with flies.
asciilifeform: there were no flies before.
mircea_popescu: this is true of the lenin mausoleum as well.
asciilifeform: and -considerably- more flesh
mircea_popescu: it is a property of the ice.
asciilifeform: and the process was -not- continuous, as in lenin's case.
mircea_popescu: the perceptible part was not.
asciilifeform: the thing stopped being searchable roughly two years ago.
mircea_popescu: again - the supposition that the entire text is given in itself is naive.
mircea_popescu: just as much a part of it is invisible, and that invisibly decayed.
asciilifeform: i have copies of several groups day-by-day of own making.
asciilifeform: google's snapshot was 99+%, for them.
mircea_popescu: they only exist because you saved the unsaveable as well,
mircea_popescu: if unintentionally.
asciilifeform: unsaveable lol
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: think in variety speak terms. for it's what it is.
asciilifeform: if what mircea_popescu is alluding to is that the design of usenet allowed for the possibility of 'parallel universes' where folks carry on a conversation that never reached my server - then yes.
asciilifeform: it is true.
mircea_popescu: not in the slightest.
mircea_popescu: what i am saying is that preconceived notions must be shared, for the text to be readable. these preconceptions melted.
asciilifeform: 'xxxx is not yet dead, while we still live' (TM)
mircea_popescu: careful with that "we".
mircea_popescu: it does not mean what it appears to mean.
asciilifeform: well, just me.
mircea_popescu: well, so there you have it.
mircea_popescu: everyone that can read it may keep a copy, and no one else.
mircea_popescu: however they may try.
mircea_popescu: and by "can read it" i mean, of course, "could have written it"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's suppose. then, when precisely did the flame go out ?
mircea_popescu: probably dotcom bust rattled enough of the people that they wanted to forget.
asciilifeform: i mean, i grasp that mircea_popescu is referring to cultural death.
mircea_popescu: it may be that they wanted to forget for the reason you suspect, but i do not think so.
mircea_popescu: rarely do people wish to forget for a purpose. it's almost always for a cause
mircea_popescu: and that cause almost always is, "i can not believe how stupid i've been"
asciilifeform: the 'digital vellum' think is maddening precisely because of the idiot scholasticism implied
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: he's going to freeze the text AND THE OS dontcha know.
asciilifeform: sorta like the monks who copied geometric tracts without any comprehension at all, or any regard for the actual content
asciilifeform: but only the pretty pictures, perverted to taste
mircea_popescu: tyvm. meanwhile, i can't fucking remember where the tread on X is. so what do i do ? i ask here. and someone remembers and links.
mircea_popescu: freeze that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180400 @ 0.00028431 = 51.2895 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32270655
assbot: Capitol Hill locked down as gunman shoots himself - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBn6Cu )
asciilifeform: mega-l0l
mircea_popescu: the problem with ascii being like naughty bits is merely a reflection of the much larger problem : everything about a text is like that. by itself.
asciilifeform: i walked right by, saw no more than the usual amount of stormtroopers.
mircea_popescu: introducing the gossipd style of comms changes nothing at all, merely makes this divide palpable, like that famous japanese butcher's following of the lines already there.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the same string from different hands is different, irreducibly.
mircea_popescu: links right into why one can't have "ideas" and all that.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, why do they not say "gunmanorwoman" ?
asciilifeform: l0l guess.
mircea_popescu: "Confirmed: self-inflicted gunshot by neutralized subject," Capital Police spokeswoman Kimberly Schneider said in a statement.
mircea_popescu: uh...
mircea_popescu: this language...
asciilifeform: my mental image was inevitably a hog-tied fella, extracting a little pistol from his arse houdini-style, to end it all and avoid the torture chambers.
mircea_popescu: i thought houdini couldn't get it up.
asciilifeform not familiar with this detail.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097958 << arbalest.
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:47:09; asciilifeform: how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or these well-known items, http://world.guns.ru/ammunition/russian-special-cartridges-r.html
assbot: Современное стрелковое оружие мира - Специальные Российские патроны ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBnHEg )
asciilifeform: ^ produced even today.
mircea_popescu: for the obvious reason. bette than a knife
mircea_popescu: in fact, most sentires do not even realise they've been shot at if you miss before you reload.
asciilifeform: subsonic, aha.
mircea_popescu: and anyone (tm) should be able to sever a cervical spine at twenty paces.
asciilifeform: http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=815 << original, afaik, example of the principle.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV8Cij )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097977 << stanford is the patriotic one.
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:52:11; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'.
asciilifeform: in gurevich's system, there was no iron piston, as in the later 'СП'. instead, there was a small quantity of... water.
mircea_popescu: mit is the "for the economy" one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually mit subdivision 'lincoln labs' - and several smaller orgs - serve top tier .mil and intelligence contractors.
mircea_popescu: also for the economy.
asciilifeform: what then happens in the 'patriotic' zoo ?
mircea_popescu: mmm... obama.
mircea_popescu: see, they're all selling the same snake oil, but! harvard is "for humanity', stanford is "patriotism", mit is "for the economy", the chicks one whatever it's called is "for the arts" etc.

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