Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2014-03-20 | 2014-03-22 →
decimation: these journos will make for amusing reading on the log
mircea_popescu: it's really shocking to me that i have to explain the basics of law to people writing news o.O
decimation: perhaps you can steer one or two to the real lede here - the writ under which USG agencies operate, and the apparently unlimited self-extension of the same
mircea_popescu: more likely future, people will start being arrested by the cable company over there.
mircea_popescu: "hello sir, we're mailmen. please step out of the car"
decimation: "agencies will have to have a public comment period before they grant themselves extraconstitutional authority over a matter"
decimation: you didn't go to the hearing at 9am on Thursday? You could have had your say. That's democracy!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo tried that one.
decimation: I predict that nothing will happen
mircea_popescu: hopefully.
mircea_popescu: else, he blogs from jail.
decimation: I don't think bitcoin rises high enough on the foreign policy hopper to pressure Romania
Duffer1: but terrsm and MONEY LAUNDERING OMG
mircea_popescu: romania ?
decimation: well, ultimately that's the outcome, right?
mircea_popescu: you mean the only country which has a military base which allows the us some sort of semblance of relevancy in the black sea ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, definitely, the us is pressuring romania.
decimation: exactly
mircea_popescu: with... you know... truckloads of cash.
decimation: so you are going to have State vs. Defense
mircea_popescu: (incidentally... without mihail kogalniceanu the afghanistan retreat isn't even all that possible)
mircea_popescu: esp not with a rather hostile syria
mircea_popescu: foir the forensically curious
decimation: There are all kinds of logisitical arrangements with "allies" of various kinds which are never mentioned in the US media
decimation: reading most US newspapers would lead one to think that the US military just shows up somewhere without any baggage train
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
decimation: asciilifeform I had a question about Cardano. I assume that measures have been taken to prevent loss of the private key in the case of the failure of a flash chip or bits thereof?
decimation: it would be sad to have some bitrot render it unusable (or in an uncertain state)
asciilifeform: decimation: cardano is not intended to house your only, 'master' key.
asciilifeform: i believe this was described in one of mp's articles.
asciilifeform: in the event of damage, or jettison (using 'zap') one is to retrieve a secreted, more senior key (optionally kept on a cardano, or in some other fashion) and sign message to the effect of 'this newly baked cardano key is my new pubkey'
asciilifeform: damn do i have to hire my own pr girl now?
mircea_popescu: well... hire.
mircea_popescu: capture a few.
asciilifeform: i spent most of the past half day answering questions that ought to be RTFMs.
mircea_popescu: dun hate the playa.
decimation: is there a preliminary block diagram available?
asciilifeform: decimation: all of the materials presently available to public are on mp's site (with the exception of several photos that live on mine.)
asciilifeform: plus some discussions held in this channel (log)
ozbot: S.NSA pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: Duffer1: thank you
mircea_popescu: probably that category holds 90%+ of the discussion.
mircea_popescu: actual block diagrams not released yet iirc ?
asciilifeform: at present, it should be more than enough for any prospective buyer to decide whether the product fits his needs
asciilifeform must be off to bed.
decimation: ah, that answers my question, it seems that there will be a single key storage EEprom
decimation: I apologize for the bother
mircea_popescu: dun worry.
Duffer1: imo asking questions is usually better than the alternative
mircea_popescu: anyway, decimation : there will be a single key storage eeprom, but the key itself is written quite redundantly on it,
mircea_popescu: and other features generally make it improbable a key will be lost. but this level of specific detail is to be you know, put up once the product actually goes for order
decimation: okay that was my question. I suspected as much, but I was thinking about possible scenarios today and it occured to me that such a precaution would be wise
mircea_popescu: there's a diff eeprom for the symetric key, these are physically separate for reasons etc
ozbot: SEC investigation of Bitcoin-based stock sale could lead to broader regulation
mircea_popescu: engadget figures the way to do reporting is putting 6 links in two paragraphs, all leading to
mircea_popescu: then one wonders why nobody heard of them in a while.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 311 @ 0.0031659 = 0.9846 BTC [-] {5}
decimation: I always feel like I'm reading an advertisement when I visit engadget
steven-__: native advertising writing style
decimation: "Part of the trouble so far has been nailing down exactly what Bitcoin is. "
mircea_popescu: owned by aol, what's one to expect.
decimation: I suppose that is troublesome for some...
decimation: I was re-reading some other early Moldbug and found this one:
decimation: "My test is that a real economist is an economist who believes that any quantity of money is adequate. A quack economist is an economist who believes that increasing prosperity - or even continuing prosperity - demands a continuously increasing quantity of money."
mircea_popescu: not a bad test.
decimation: no. as usual, his post is overly wordy, but he is writing about bitcoin and he doesn't realize it
decimation: "Every nonneutral dilution can be defined as the combination of a neutral redenomination and a nonneutral redistribution. And this is why dilutionists are quacks. Dilutionists are quacks because it is impossible to imagine a way in which the systematic pilfering of wallets could somehow be essential to commerce and industry."
mircea_popescu: decimation kind-of explains why he was so butthurt when bitcoin showed up.
decimation: oh yeah I agree
mircea_popescu: sorta same problem as the average gold bug, except his is more refined.
decimation: he said as much in one if his posts
mircea_popescu: hopefully he manages to work through teh issue.
decimation: well, he should stop trying to make gay navies and start by re-writing the bitcoin client with a real spec
mircea_popescu: anyway, i can readily offer a way in which systematic pilfering is essential to commerce and industry.
mircea_popescu: here goes :
mircea_popescu: society at all times opposes youthful monkeys with aged monkeys. these desire to control the female monkeys, and all the stuff related to this, from cars to stockings. including their means of production and so on, all the way to legislation (which monkey may shave her cunt and show up in garters ? mine or yours ? )
mircea_popescu: by workings of thermodynamics wealth (in all its forms) concentrates with the old
mircea_popescu: whereas by workings of biology will (in all its forms) concentrates with the young.
mircea_popescu: at any time there will exist a quantity of theft, q. at any time there will also exist a minimal quantity of theft, mq, such that it is more productive for the young to work at commerce and industry to acquire wealth
mircea_popescu: than to work at shooting and looting.
mircea_popescu: if q < mq there is no commerce and industry.
mircea_popescu: if q is mq + epsilon, all is well.
mircea_popescu: the study of epsilon and of the means through which q = mq+e may be ensured is then the business of the economist.
decimation: This goes to your point about those who flatter USG make out like bandits; while those trying to make money "from the sweat of their brow" end up funding the fortunes of the flatterers
mircea_popescu: i guess it may, yeah.
benkay: best part of the engaget 'story' is that the world 'currency' is linked and goes to another btc atm.
B007: link bait
mircea_popescu: benkay they definitely have an editor in charge of being 1990s fucktarded
benkay: not uni students majoring in social media?
mircea_popescu: undiscernible until she opens her box.
decimation: yeah that's a pretty good point. Moldbug has a point about closed currencies, but your point goes to human nature - something that "economists" often famously ignore.
mircea_popescu: or pretend to.
mircea_popescu: if anyone is so inclined, the immortal balzac has an excellent depiction of the pilfering problem, in his eugenie grandet
mircea_popescu: the old folks have shit, the young folks want the shit. negotiation ensues.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, let us quote moliere :
mircea_popescu: "Que veux−tu que j'y fasse ? Voilà où les jeunes gens sont réduits par la maudite avarice des pères ; et on s'étonne après cela que les fils souhaitent qu'ils meurent."
decimation: I don't have any french, only german. Google translate for me.
mircea_popescu: they must have l'avare translated in goetesprache by now
mircea_popescu: anyway, "what'd you have me do ? see where young men are reduced by the accursed avarice of their fathers, and they then wonder that sons wish their death"
decimation: So to answer Moldbug: Monetary dillusion could be used as a way to reduce crime - by redistributing wealth (just enough) to keep crime down and businesses open
mircea_popescu: not a matter of crime.
mircea_popescu: to reduce economic inefficiency, by taking from the hands of the savers and putting into the hands of the riskers.
B007: bad idea
B007: how did the savers get their moeny?
mircea_popescu: understand that the most economic way to run the economy - now as during 1614 - is to just turn off all machinery, lock all warehouses and bury the key
mircea_popescu: harpagon's approach.
decimation: that would surely feed the people with the least input!
mircea_popescu: B007 under which system do you ask ?
B007: mixed economy
mircea_popescu: no. if you mean whether they achieved it legally, im sure htey did. if you mean were they once young, i'm sure they were.
mircea_popescu: if you mean, are they taking it with them, they certainly won't.
ozbot: Google CEO Larry Page: Elon Musk would get my inheritance over charity.
mircea_popescu: seems sensible.
mircea_popescu: so do you propose that they who have it are the best arbiters of how it should disposed of ?
B007: possibly, yes
mircea_popescu: perhaps, but argue it to the younguns, not to me.
B007: I'd rather that then gov. or charities deciding
mircea_popescu: no argument.
decimation: in the US hardly any real charity exists
ozbot: Google
decimation: it's barely legal to tell someone 'no'
B007: benkay: that whole situation is a lot of wot
benkay: such wat
ozbot: Twitter / ID_AA_Carmack: Get in the Oculus DK2 Queue: ...
Mats_cd03: they shouldve just built a helmet out of it
Mats_cd03: that thing looks too uncomfortable to wear
benkay: i'll wait until the pixel density exceeds my ocular resolution, tyvm.
B007: helmets are bad for warm climates
B007: sweat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61998998 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: then they can drill a few holes in there
Mats_cd03: install a small fan to move air around
mircea_popescu: lmao propellerheads!
B007: fanheads
Mats_cd03: they solved that problem in CBRNE suits already
Mats_cd03: its not that cool, more like a tiny A/C unit inside the gas mask
B007: why add all that complexity and cost though
ozbot: Why I Never Hire Brilliant Men - Wikisource, the free online library
mircea_popescu: "A nationwide scam involving fake Internal Revenue Service representatives has already resulted in $1 million being stolen from thousands of unsuspecting victims."
mircea_popescu: pretend to be the taxman, even robin hood did that one
Mats_cd03: if i wanted to read hn links i would visit hn
LordPutin: Ukyo why not say something in thebitcointalk thread just to know....letpeopleknow you still care, if its ok?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00084111 = 8.9999 BTC [-]
joecool: LordPutin: hey you're alive!
mircea_popescu: he's simpleminded sociopath, i read in the washington pravda.
LordPutin: i'm alive just more slient than an Obama fart
Mats_cd03: heres an idea
Mats_cd03: someone create a replacement for full-disclosure that solely utilizes the bitcoin protocol
Mats_cd03: id fund dev for that
mircea_popescu: then you'll probably want to specify it better.
mircea_popescu: you know, to sorely contrast with the bitcoin derpotroll
mircea_popescu: s/derpotroll/protocol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.600021 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06345979 = 0.3173 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.057 = 0.57 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.600011 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.0575 = 0.5175 BTC [+] {2}
Izzy_: hello
Izzy_: i'm game to learn about bitcoin
mircea_popescu: good for you.
Izzy_: step 1?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0575 = 0.115 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: reading this log can't hurt, may take a while.
ozbot: Bitcoin pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Izzy_: djing on if you need aural stimulation
deerok: how do you find the log
Mats_cd03: pseudonymous forum that allows for full disclosure while insulating identity of researchers while maintaining a reputation system
deerok: oh
deerok: at top sorry
Mats_cd03: pgp would be great
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 so simply advertise a gpg key, which people can encrypt to.
mircea_popescu: autopublish whatever's sent.
Mats_cd03: i suppose its a solved problem after all
Izzy_: okay, got this message in my email to have access to your blog "Please send exactly 0.01002637 BTC to 16crkmdoaK6Tq8NP3FVK7Uxq5Dwdicb3c3"
mircea_popescu: cryptome are also doing a splendid job of it already
mircea_popescu: but it never hurts to have redundancy
Izzy_: how do i get the btc?
mircea_popescu: Izzy_ well normally you mine it, but i guess most people trade or w/e
Izzy_: w/e?
Izzy_: i can try mining
mircea_popescu: w/e = whatever
benkay: mircea_popescu: you back atc but don't accept it for trilema credits?!
anirgu: nice
mircea_popescu: what am i going to do, run an atc wallet ?
mircea_popescu: but btw, splendid link. i had not know that. weird. wild. etc.
mircea_popescu: "One of the fine traits in human nature is the desire which almost every decent man has to help young men do well."
mircea_popescu: this is quite factual. correspondingly, one of the worst traits of human nature is the delusion by which almost every young man imagines the adults wish him ill.
Izzy_: is there a step by step sight for future bitcoinistas?
anirgu: Amith here from I Have Bitcoins
mircea_popescu: Izzy_ what's your line ?
mircea_popescu: anirgu hi amith.
Izzy_: my line?
mircea_popescu: nice formatting, but don't you find that chinese workers example a little bizarre ?
mircea_popescu: Izzy_ yes, what did you learn in school and what do you do for a living.
benkay: mircea_popescu: by the by, this backus-naur btc network parser is way over my head :(
mircea_popescu: are you a fishmonger or a mechanical engineer.
benkay: humbly submit for canings etc
Izzy_: i studied psychology
mircea_popescu: benkay well what, it was supposed to be a huge taks.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell moiety Izzy_ something tells me your best entry would be one on one tutoring with moiety.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Izzy_: for a living right now, i'm a broadcaster on - we'll see how far i can take it
mircea_popescu: you two seem made for each other.
Izzy_: why does there seem to be a divide w/ xrp and bitcoin
mircea_popescu: because there is.
mircea_popescu: anirgu : that it appears you're proposing the usg regulate the life of chinese workers.
Izzy_: who is moeity?
mircea_popescu: Izzy_ this scottish chick.
benkay: Izzy_: have ye a gpg and wot yet?
anirgu: no no no no. didn't want it to come off like that at all
mircea_popescu: well... it does.
mircea_popescu: at least to my eye.
Izzy_: no i don't think so
joecool: ;;guide
gribble: Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
anirgu: i wanted to drive home that the USA should not be reuglating nayone
joecool: hm they removed it
Izzy_: tutoring w/ moeity sounds good - how do i get in touch with her
mircea_popescu: Izzy_ well i just left her a message above, which is what gribble confirmed. she'll prolly hiot you up if you're around once she shows up
mircea_popescu: ;;seen moiety
gribble: moiety was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 5 hours, and 5 seconds ago: <moiety> i sreepy, good mew all, whatever your timezone!
Izzy_: cool thx mircea
mircea_popescu: benkay so are you giving it a rest or merely wanted to complain ?
benkay: well there's a strategic option that while less tasteful may satisfy
benkay: these conformal doods seem to have their heads screwed on straight.
benkay: excuse me.
benkay: these gentlemen at conformal seem to know what they're doing and going about it in all the right ways.
mircea_popescu: seems that way.
benkay: are*
chetty: yeah the reference to chinese workers needs better explain, could be misunderstood
benkay: i'm considering giving my hacky implementation a rest and diving into the work they've done
mircea_popescu: this can not hurt.
mircea_popescu: in business, stealing is everything.
benkay: kinda the thesis, yeah
benkay: writing too, i hear.
anirgu: ok, that's two. need to reword this...
benkay: anyways, hound's tanks appear to be full, and my reserves depleted. updates rendered
benkay: "leverage". the word i was looking for a few minutes ago. "leverage".
mircea_popescu: "Tokyo funds matchmaking parties to boost birth rate"
mircea_popescu: then people complain about condomacare.
Izzy_: what's up w/ eve isks?
Izzy_: i played the game 10 years ago, but just to hear the music
Izzy_: so now they have a cryptocurrency?
mircea_popescu: not so crypto, but anyway
Izzy_: similar concept? or trading/mining?
Izzy_: of
mircea_popescu: i think it's all backed by stuff you mine out of asteroids, so yea
Izzy_: cool
cazalla: Japan is boosting the birth rate by bringing diversity to the country
mircea_popescu: like what, men who can summon actual erections ?
cazalla: can't find the article but it detailed their plan to bring in negroes
mircea_popescu: should make decent pronz
cazalla: hopefully japanese men have enough sense to grab some rope
mircea_popescu: if they didn't bother to grab the soap so far, why'd they muddle with the rope henceforth ?
cazalla: given they are xenophobic beyond what i could ever be, i expect them to put up a little more resistance to cultural enrichment than the west has to date
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00083912 = 15.9433 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no man that can't be bothered to fuck the woman cares if she goes astray, srsly nao.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22723 @ 0.0008379 = 19.0396 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 70 @ 0.00540004 = 0.378 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0059416 = 0.1545 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1580 @ 0.00013311 = 0.2103 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 15 @ 0.60000273 = 9 BTC [-] {3}
cazalla: i've no retort to that (as much as i've sat here thinking of one)
mircea_popescu: well then i can go to bed
chetty: cazalla: cultural enrichment ? hmm
cazalla: chetty: send 'em to Israel
chetty: the phrase reminds me of 'social justice'
cazalla: that's where it comes from
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21670 @ 0.00083682 = 18.1339 BTC [-] {2}
Izzy_: @mircea_popescu g'night - thx for the contact w/ your scottish friend
Izzy_: hope to hear from her tonight
LordPutin: i hope the ceo of bitcoin gets released onbail tonight so the price goes back up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07001203 = 0.14 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00322945 = 0.1292 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.086 = 0.344 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: i need it to stay down for another 5 weeks :\
cazalla: lower would be ideal
B007: why's that?
cazalla: more coin for my buck
benkay: to get more, duh B007
benkay: chetty: iirc you've been known to read scifi?
benkay: chetty: i'm reading a splendid little space opera set across the solar system. war between mars and the belt, with big rocks waiting in the wings to get tipped down the well.
cazalla: benkay: that + my old man is being generous enough to give his kids some $$$ from his own inheritance
benkay: cazalla: how does the inheritance play?
benkay: oh, I see. you're going to off your father.
cazalla: haha not quite
cazalla: he's kind enough to give my brother and I a windfall
benkay: and the gig is planned for 1.25 months from now.
benkay: what do you plan to do with the hoard?
benkay: at 12, there was a man ranting in ##econometrics about mortgaging himself to the hilt and going long btc.
cazalla: i'm not knocking off the old man
cazalla: just putting what he plans to give me into bitcoin
benkay: i thought him either a fool if honest, or a sly fox if amping the hysteria.
benkay: now might not be a bad time to do the same thing.
benkay: don't take it too seriously, now cazalla.
Izzy_: could someone explain how i get gpg?
benkay: btc's probably the best thing you could do with the stash.
cazalla: i don't but i just wish i had the dosh now incase it goes back up in the interim
benkay: provided it's a cold wallet.
benkay: eh what's the rush.
benkay: we're not in insane appreciation mode yet, although spring *is* coming.
benkay: the counterargument is that the halvening is many moons from now.
cazalla: the rush is that i only appreciate now what i wish i appcreciated 2 years ago
benkay: Izzy_: dost thou run windows? *nix?
Izzy_: mac osx
Izzy_: do i need windows?
benkay: type gpg -k at the console
benkay: or man gpg, rather.
cazalla: i could've had hundreds instead of the plebeian amount i now own
cazalla: or thousands
Izzy_: ok
BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record GPG guide
gribble: PGP/GPG Guide | Bingo Blog: <>; Signature Thursday: Geany a GUI text editor for GPG tasks | Bingo ...: <>; October | 2013 | Bingo Blog: <>
benkay: ha i was sticking something in the fridge, BingoBoingo.
benkay: rest assured that was my next message.
Izzy_: hm i can't type into my console
chetty: benkay: I haven't time for scfi reading much in a while, anyway real life seems to have caught up, the newspaper is mostly scifi
BingoBoingo: benkay: Eh, things happen.
benkay: Izzy_: the terminal?
benkay: my mistake. console is an actual 'thing' on os x.
Izzy_: ok terminal, says command not found
Izzy_: just gpg?
benkay: man gpg?
benkay: oh lord does os x not ship with gpg these days?
chetty: does it at least have a package manager?
benkay: of course not
chetty: << Mac clueless
benkay: curl2sudoTM
benkay: curl2sudo™
benkay: chetty: what's your poison?
chetty: linux
benkay: *eyeroll*
benkay: which flavor?
chetty: ubuntu (atm)
chetty: I need to do some mac and eep win, to make eulora clients soonish
benkay: mhm.
benkay: are the assettes being helpful with building?
chetty: yup see #eulora :)
Izzy_: well if anyone wants to help out a mac user, you can email me @
Izzy_: don't want to clog the forum w/ my tech support needs
benkay: ;;later tell Izzy_ come back for help sometime
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Izzy_: thanks
Izzy_: ok
benkay: not a clog.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00082309 = 18.3549 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00082334 = 8.8921 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19076 @ 0.00083248 = 15.8804 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.07299958 = 0.949 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.05460117 = 0.3822 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1810 @ 0.00012948 = 0.2344 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00083891 = 3.3556 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14122 @ 0.00084039 = 11.868 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 14 @ 0.06482071 = 0.9075 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0546 = 0.1092 BTC [-]
Neil: Uh, who's dumping in China? $520 now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38027 @ 0.00084072 = 31.9701 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 18 @ 0.59508334 = 10.7115 BTC [-] {6}
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 581.1, vol: 13608.15310689 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 575.999, vol: 7410.23018 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 578.0, vol: 8658.31554504 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 604.0, vol: 598.08691876 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 556.07856, vol: 5220.73100000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 593.65, vol: 13.55627424 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 584.696, vol: 95.10254831 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
Neil: Missing huobi; the one with highest vol.
Neil: bitstamp catching up...
Neil: Huge selling
kakobrekla: hedge, quickly,
jurov: if gox "finds" anoher 500k that'll be time to hedge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07299999 = 0.219 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: <zveda> visa/mastercard block russia
Apocalyptic: is that confirmed ?
kakobrekla: ;;google visa/mastercard block russia
gribble: ​Visa, Mastercard block US-sanctioned Russian banks ... - <>; Bitcoin FTW in Russia | Max Keiser: <>; Twitter / Datavetaren: So VISA/Mastercard just became ...: <>
Apocalyptic: ty kako
Namworld: ok... that is funny...
kakobrekla: did he check under the couch cushions?
BingoBoingo: Namworld: Here's a likely plan. 1) Be shit and get coins trading for 1/5th value buying many with play money 2) Shutdown and Bankruptcy filing 3) gradually "find" coins 4) ??? 5) Profit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37950 @ 0.00083707 = 31.7668 BTC [-] {2}
Namworld: He has more debt in USD than funds, cheap Bitcoins and an overall profit, in that scenario.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.073 = 0.146 BTC [+]
nubbins`: mircea_popescu based on original pink eye artwork ;D
ozbot: Climate adaptation facing funding crisis warn UN officials
mircea_popescu: good morning chitlins
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 659 blocks | Estimated Change: 11.8648% in 4d 0h 41m 0s
nubbins`: morning
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: ah, so crimea has been officially annexed
mircea_popescu: more interestingly, visa and mastercard have been officially nationalised
BingoBoingo: They always kind of were.
mircea_popescu: also true.
mircea_popescu: the chief difference between the usa and the cccp being that the usa is in denial about building socialism.
BingoBoingo: This was especially true at the peak of McCarthyism, since Johnson though there's gradually been a little less denial though every generation.
Namworld: mircea, no, I'm not coding for noobs. I just give an advice about not trusting anything just because it looks good because code can't be audited.
mircea_popescu: no but usa != the people living at any given time in the areal. just like cccp != the poor russian and other nationalities engulag'd.
Namworld: But they want me to code an exchange regardless.
mircea_popescu: illegitimate governments never can stand for the peoples they claim to represent.
mircea_popescu: Namworld sounds about right.
mircea_popescu: anyway, why not just use Apocalyptic's thing.
mircea_popescu: not enough scamcoins on it ?
daybyter: Namworld: what language you want to use?
Namworld: Have you seen the latest gox?
Namworld: urf, wrong link
mircea_popescu: benkay: at 12, there was a man ranting in ##econometrics about mortgaging himself to the hilt and going long btc. <<< this has long been the practical bank killer.
Namworld: This one is right
mircea_popescu: that man will soon discover that paying back his mortgage is not really in his interest,
mircea_popescu: whatever btc does.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18567 @ 0.00084096 = 15.6141 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: lol @the notion of gox still publishing pdfs
mircea_popescu: unless it's a naked karpeles dancing in the streets of tokio for nickels i ain't interested.
mircea_popescu: what's mtgxo.
mircea_popescu: Izzy_: do i need windows? << ahaha she's so cute.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3483 @ 0.00084294 = 2.936 BTC [+]
Namworld: Gox has now 202k BTC, officially. They also officially don't know how much they have at all.
Namworld: Read it, it's one page in english. It's a good laugh.
mircea_popescu: a, i heard he was claiming that yest
Namworld: Well the official details are entertaining.
nubbins`: mpex on engadget now
mircea_popescu: cazalla you know, i bought tons at about $2.ish per ?
nubbins`: really making the rounds this time
Namworld: You can't make up stuff like that.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: an order of magnitude lower than me ;(
nubbins`: aha.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i like bothering people with that figure :D i imagine all the assholes buying 10k for a pizza are long gone so nobody can bother me.
Namworld: I wish I had bought more at 5ish.
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: first one i ever bought was $11
mircea_popescu: men who live in low price houses can afford to throw pricepoints around
Namworld: I was a few weeks late.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` my first buy was 60 * 15
mircea_popescu: i like round numbers.
nubbins`: i spent most of the early ones
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 676 @ 0.00310111 = 2.0964 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: avg price for the ones i still have was around $22
nubbins`: luckily had the foresight to stop spending them
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.00310008 = 0.2697 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i spent about a year with ppl going "wait so you bought at 15 ? but it's not even half that now! you got duped mp!"
mircea_popescu: and i was liek "let me show you how averaging works"
mircea_popescu: "all you need is an infinity of moneyz, you'll be just fine"
nubbins`: TBF i was buying btc and pushing them into SR as fast as i could, and pascale said "maybe we should sit on a few k's"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Roughly when did you start lawyering up and working on the MPEx/MPOE legal contingencies?
nubbins`: wise woman :0
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo roughly july 2011.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Cool, working on a blog post.
nubbins`: surprising amount of art for sale on btctalk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14456 @ 0.00084295 = 12.1857 BTC [+] {2}
only_: nubbins`: so Bitcoin isn't made for spending, huh?
Namworld: The finest counterfeit Picasso's alongside $1 store paintings?
nubbins`: what makes ya think that?
mircea_popescu: so i can't really believe it, but after being on everywhere trilema ain't been down.
mircea_popescu: i would say moore's law officially solved the problem of slashdotting, permanently.
mircea_popescu: unless you're being silly, it won't happen.
Namworld: So it seems.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin's made for spendin' like them tits are made for squeezin'. not all the time not by everyone.
only_: haha
nubbins`: with the caveat that tits are better squeezed now than later
nubbins`: and btc, the opposite
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00310007 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}
only: dat fixed supply!!1
nubbins`: in fact, tits are inflationary just like btc
mircea_popescu: also deflationary.
nubbins`: there's a pun hidden in there if anyone's looking
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14757 @ 0.00084338 = 12.4458 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00083704 = 10.3793 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: < this explains who gets hurt if the us keeps on yakking.
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @MKRocks @felixsalmon $1k USD ...
ReutersEmily: I am completely unfamiliar with the etiquette in here
mircea_popescu: who knew, mpex is 50% better than the best investment in the history of venture investment.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily hello.
mircea_popescu: don't worry about the etiquette, it fell off.
ReutersEmily: Oh so glad you are here mircea_popescu
ReutersEmily: How does MPEx work? Can one chose what specific investments one wants to make or is it a portfolio chosen by MPEx?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily mpex works exactly like the nyse, if nyse worked as intended.
blackwhite: morning men
mircea_popescu: you put your orders in, it executes them.
ReutersEmily: Ok so you buy private placement share on MPEx
ReutersEmily: like could I buy shares of AirBnB?
mircea_popescu: i'm not sure what you mean by " private placement " but probably.
mircea_popescu: a, no. you buy shares of companies registered with mpex.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00594041 = 0.1723 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 139 @ 0.0031 = 0.4309 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05468 = 0.2734 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: you can't buy say british petroleum on nyse unless someone does a dr deal.
mircea_popescu: which do happen occasionally in bitcoin, but not really for fiat companies,
mircea_popescu: mostly because bitcoiners aren't interested in fiat investments
ReutersEmily: and all of the transactions are conducted in Bitcoin then?
mircea_popescu: like nyse does all deals in dollars,
mircea_popescu: so mpex does all deals in bitcoin
ReutersEmily: so Havelock is the same, right?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05533333 = 0.166 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: Well X.EUR is a thing
mircea_popescu: it aspires to be the same.
ReutersEmily: what if i have an idea for a startup, can i register with you before my company is really up and running in order to get some funding for my idea?
mircea_popescu: people try all the time, some succeed, some don;t.
ReutersEmily: as in - some make it through your registration process and others don't? or can anyone register, and then it's just sink or swim, it's a matter of whether they can attract funds?
mircea_popescu: s.nsa is a fine example of one company that succeeded. the owner there came up with the idea of making an actually cryptographically secure gpg gizmo
Namworld: Havelock works boh as an exchange, and as a broker. It makes it easy to trade, no opening fee and large trade fees. MPEx works like an actual exchabge. Not much interface, very high security, high entry fee for a seat, low trading fees.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, again just like the nyse. you have to satisfy a due dilligence process.
mircea_popescu: if you just let anyone randomly registering you end up with the pink sheets, basically.
ReutersEmily: so what kinds of people or companies do not make it thru your dd process?
ReutersEmily: like, what are the disqualifiers?
mircea_popescu: well, people without a business plan, people without an established identity, etc
ozbot: How does one list on MPEx ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: there's a discussion on the topic.
ReutersEmily: ah - cool - thanks
ReutersEmily: So I see you posted the SEC letter on your site
ReutersEmily: that is unusual, to say the least
mircea_popescu: to quote one excited city trader,
mircea_popescu: "i read it and shared it with everyone i knew. i think it was fantastic. i was going to congratulate you on it yesterday but i figured you were too busy."
ReutersEmily: yeah it is really cool from my perspective (i cover SEC enforcement, etc) to get to see how they operate like that
mircea_popescu: so then good.
ReutersEmily: what else are you going to do about it?
mircea_popescu: as i was pointing out to someone from i don't remember where yesterday,
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: you may want to pick up the glove she failed to identify.
mircea_popescu: (washington post, i'm reminded meanwhile)
ReutersEmily: You were saying the SEC already discussed whether they could have jurisdiction over bitcoin exchanges?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00304264 = 0.1004 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: no, i am saying their debate as to whethet to come out and say its not in their yeard or not ended up in fishtails last tiem they tried to come to a declaration.
mircea_popescu: that'll need a rephrase.
ReutersEmily: does MPEx offer currency exchange services as well?
mircea_popescu: not currently, not ever.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00304003 = 0.1003 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05599998 = 0.168 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there are websites that purport to do this for you, if you can trust them. canonically bitcoin is obtained by mining it.
pizzaman1337: X.EUR....?
ReutersEmily: can U.S. - based customers use MPEx?
mircea_popescu: x.eur is a settled euro future handled by bitcoin-central's davout, so i suppose you could use that.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i have no idea.
pizzaman1337: such a loaded question
ReutersEmily: I'm just trying to figure out how the SEC would argue it has jurisdiction
mircea_popescu: i don't think it would or is trying to.
ReutersEmily: like, some other sites that deal in bitcoin have tried to stay out of range of US regulators by not letting people with US IP addresses log on
mircea_popescu: best anyone can determine, the sec is merely trying to cope with the serious problems of fraud enabled by unscrupulous operators
mircea_popescu: such as glbse, btct, havelock, bitfunder et all.
BingoBoingo: MPEx doesn't really have a "log in"
mircea_popescu: there has been a lengthy list of wannabe-mpex websites to date, it all ended bloody.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00304 = 0.3344 BTC [-] {2}
ReutersEmily: are the rest of those (besides havelock) NYSE-type exchanges as well?
mircea_popescu: no, the ones besides havelock are dead.
ReutersEmily: how did it end bloody for the other sites?
mircea_popescu: people booking the traditional 50% losses in half year.
mircea_popescu: so you know, on the ground there's quite legitimate concern.
mircea_popescu: i have an entyire department dedicated to researching and outing scams
mircea_popescu: i spend hundreds of my own btc to create evidentiary trails
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05683332 = 0.341 BTC [+] {5}
ReutersEmily: how many people in your scam-outing dept and what do they do?
pizzaman1337: how many people work for MPEx? (while we're asking questions...)
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily about a dozen, it varies. they review public communications, keep track on the status of various purported btc companies, make regular statements etc.
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 over a hundred by now if you count absolutely everyone.
ReutersEmily: What is the volume of trading on MPEx?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily it varies wildly. currently in the 20-30k btc range. during one month it handled 400k btc in notional options exposure
mircea_popescu: which at the time worked out to well over half a billion.
ReutersEmily: when you say 20-30 thosuand, is that per month?
ReutersEmily: and how many individuals do you think suffered when those other sites blew up?
mircea_popescu: to date i would guess about 20 to 30k different individuals have lost to unscrupulous operators somewhere between half a million and two million bitcoin
pizzaman1337: in the feb report the expenditure was 8.262335 BTC, how does that cover a hundred people?
mircea_popescu: that is easily over a billion dollars in today's market, but at the time btc was valued a lot lower
mircea_popescu: so if you want actual losses i'd guess ten to a hundred million.
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well there's this dastardly ambiguity in working for mp/working for mpex.
ReutersEmily: does MPEx keep track of where its users are located physically?
mircea_popescu: it doesn't, mostly because it can't.
mircea_popescu: do you understand symmetric key cryptography ?
mircea_popescu: you don't have to run research it, just say no if you don't an' i'll explain. it's not really too complicated.
ReutersEmily: i do not
BingoBoingo: A bit related to the fact this conversation is happening at all
mircea_popescu: ok. so let's first look into prime factors. the prime factors of 12 are 2,2,3,3
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06300312 = 0.126 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: because 12 is made up by multiplying 2 and 2 and 3.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2*2*3
mircea_popescu: with me so far ?
mircea_popescu: ok. can you tell me the prime factors of 30345 ?
pizzaman1337: (not off the top of our heads)
mircea_popescu: as you can imagine, this'd take a while. you'd have to keep trying dividing it
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, calculating 17×119×5×3 is trivial, and any kid in school should be able to do it.
mircea_popescu: now it turns out you can use this disparity for great mathematical accomplishments, in the sense that
mircea_popescu: if you have the 17×119×5×3 set (ie, the private key) you can do some things which someone only having the 30345 (ie, the public key) can not do.
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> not enough scamcoins on it ? // I guess so
mircea_popescu: so now based on this you can send me messages that only i can decrypt, and i can respond in kind.
Apocalyptic: anyway I contacted that guy just for the lulz, if he was willing to pay for such a platform
Apocalyptic: surprisingly he didn't have much coin
mircea_popescu: this is how mpex works : a new user registers his public key with mpex, and registers mpex's public key for himself.
Apocalyptic: and that's an understatement
mircea_popescu: once this is done, there's no more log in, there's no more anything.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1346 @ 0.00304 = 4.0918 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you could just code your message, give it to anyone (publish it on your blog, whatever)
mircea_popescu: only mpex can read it.
mircea_popescu: and in fact you can actually put orders in mpex right from here, by talking to the bots.
ozbot: The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: we use it ocasionally, at least for debugging.
mircea_popescu: so, mpex is not a website in any sense.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic somehow not surprising.
bounce: that's asymmetric aka public key crypto, though. minor point of order.
mircea_popescu: bounce yeah ?
mircea_popescu: o i sayd symmetric sorry. my bad.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the advantage of being here. i gain about 15 iq points when surrounded by these folks.
ReutersEmily: speaking of advantages, does MPEx make any money from individual trades?
mircea_popescu: there's a 0.2% fee on all trades for the seller only.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0030256 = 0.6051 BTC [-] {2}
ReutersEmily: Thanks. And the way you just described the public key crypto, in trading terms, it sounds like MPEx is the counterparty to all trades?
ReutersEmily: or am I missing something
mircea_popescu: not at all.
mircea_popescu: how do you reason ?
ReutersEmily: like, if someone wants to sell something, MPEx is the buyer, and then MPEx turns around and finds a buyer?
ReutersEmily: or do you link buyers and sellers directly?
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic somehow not surprising. // that was ironic :)
mircea_popescu: mpex ensures that he who orders a buy or a sell has enough of whatever is needed, stocks, btc
mircea_popescu: and then whenever someone orders a crossing sell or buy, the trade is executed and reported to the parties.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00302 = 0.3201 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90475 @ 0.00084285 = 76.2569 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: again quite exactly as the nyse works.
ReutersEmily: and how do you verify the share holdings of an individual seller?
ReutersEmily: like, i can see how you would be able to verify the btc holdings
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29525 @ 0.00086236 = 25.4612 BTC [+] {7}
ReutersEmily: you say you make sure that he who orders a buy or a sell has enough of whatever is needed
mircea_popescu: $vwap s.mpoe
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00083879 high: 0.00096 low: 0.00080946 volume: 565745 btc: 474.53976688 7 day: average: 0.00082712 high: 0.00096 low: 0.00079506 volume: 6204983 btc: 5132.28943247 30 day: average: 0.00084866 high: 0.00096 low: 0.000745 volume: 29190747 btc: 24773.1627663
ReutersEmily: I can understand how you could verify BTC holdings but not quite how you could verify the share holdings
mircea_popescu: heh sweet stability.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, why not ? they seem of the same kind no ?
mircea_popescu: mpex keeps a list of what a signature owns, in btc or instruments.
mircea_popescu: anyway, give a contract a read sometime
ozbot: S.BBET last 2000@0.00045000
mircea_popescu: such as.
ReutersEmily: will do
Namworld: The fact it works like it is makes communications for trades and information very secure, using strong encryption. It works like one would make orders digitally with an actual stock exchange. Low fees per trade too. But high entry fee and no interface.
ReutersEmily: so do you think exchanges like MPEx will eventually need regulation the way NYSE needs it - to prevent corners and other bad behavior?
Namworld: One can buy a registration with MPEx and then actually provide the brokering service, complete with actual web interface. Such as what did.
mircea_popescu: mpex does have regulation,
mircea_popescu: what mpex does is for fiat institutions to recognise there are people who understand how things work and are currently working to prevent such corner cases and bad behaviour
mircea_popescu: and help with the process of limiting those.
mircea_popescu: what mpex needs*
mircea_popescu: for instance : i've written a standard for accounting
ozbot: Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation. The MPEx standard. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Pope
mircea_popescu: i force mpex corps to publiush monthly reports,
mircea_popescu: there's a lengthy list, and all this is strictly a mpex thing, nobody else does it.
mircea_popescu: tho i tell them to. but what's in a telling ?
ReutersEmily: so that would be similar to the SEC's reporting requirements for public companies
ReutersEmily: but when you say there are people who are trying to prevent bad behavior, how do they do that?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily take for instance mpoe-pr. you familiar with her body of work ?
ReutersEmily: do you have limits on how many shares in a single company can be bought by a single signature?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily not other than the limits of how many shares there exist in that company.
Namworld: MPEx at its core was made to be simple, secure and without any extras. Designed to be a true exchange. Other places so far dealing with Bitcoin securities have both the issuing and official trades of share, and the web interface. It makes them vulnerable to hacking and meddling with the list of holders.
ReutersEmily: I am not familiar with mpoe-pr
ReutersEmily: where can i find her work?
mircea_popescu: ;;google mpoe-pr
gribble: View the profile of MPOE-PR - Bitcoin Forum: <;u=52741>; Latest posts of: MPOE-PR - Bitcoin Forum: <;u=52741;sa=showPosts>; MPOE-PR, almost two years in the swamp. An anthology. pe Trilema ...: <>
mircea_popescu: there you go.
mircea_popescu: jesus google has gotten good meanwhile ?!
mircea_popescu: what year is this! how long have i been asleep ?!
Namworld: MPOE-PR exposes scams and belittles random strangers looking for investments/offering a service which involves handling third party funds, without any respectability or proof of competency.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily anyway, some highlights include calling out the pirate scam in april 2012, at a time everyone thought they knew better,
mircea_popescu: and unravelling a bunch of scammers posing as "bitcoin bankers" and issuing "credit ratings" and whatnot
mircea_popescu: and a lot of numerous other cases.
ReutersEmily: so...perhaps you don't want to discuss it here but i would love to know what you think of the new cyprus-based 'bank'
mircea_popescu: now, if the sec had actually had a gpgkey registered with me in april 2012,
mircea_popescu: we could have together avoided a shitton of loss and misery.
mircea_popescu: and if the sec was at my april 2013 conference, they could have known about mtgox nine months in advance,
mircea_popescu: like anyone in btc with a clue
ReutersEmily: what do you think went wrong w/mt gox?
mircea_popescu: rather than six montrhs after, like your run of the mill overworked, overwhelmed, sclerotic bureaucracy.
Namworld: On Bitcointalk forum. She tends to be very accurate, yet most often dismissed. In the end, she is usually proven right, sadly for those who didn't heed her warnings.
ReutersEmily: think it was a guy who couldn't run an exchange or an outside theft?
Monarch03: Mircea, what is your opinion about ASICminer, from investment point of view right now? thanks
ozbot: Grave concerns re MtGox pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily it's really all published
ozbot: Grave concerns re MtGox pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Namworld: I'm sorry, I'm probably just interupting and distracting from your questions to Mircea.
ReutersEmily: so when is your next conference mircea_popescu?
mircea_popescu: in about a month.
ReutersEmily: can i come?
ozbot: The conference, second edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: you'll have to read and talk to your editor
pizzaman1337: signup closed 15th
mircea_popescu: but in principle yes
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well i imagine she wants to come as press rather than vip
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily if not, there's going to be another in 2015 anyway, so.
ReutersEmily: yeah i would want to come as press. altho since we have people far closer to Romania than I am here in NYC perhaps one of my colleagues would go instead
mircea_popescu: just as long as they understand what's going on.
ReutersEmily: so can we talk about Cyprus?
ReutersEmily: what is going on there, in your opinion?
mircea_popescu: well their govt collapsed and it seems messy
ReutersEmily: what about specifically in the btc space?
mircea_popescu: why are you asking me ?
mircea_popescu: oh. i dunno, it's a small country.
ReutersEmily: because i want to know what you think about some of the new businesses popping up there
mircea_popescu: the neobee people bought a lot of newspaper space recently, that hat you mean ?
ReutersEmily: yeah what do you think of them?
mircea_popescu: nothing too highly. to keep this short and sweet, the objections are :
mircea_popescu: a) that while neobee collected funds (on havelock), they have yet to issue a report. this is eerily reminescent of the bitcoin foundation scam, and does not bode well
mircea_popescu: b) that while neobee spends a lot of time executing, it's so far failed to actually come up with a business plan. anyone can buy advertising, and overpay for it.
mircea_popescu: c) that havelock has a history of allowing high rent corporations to just walk away from their obligations, such as they did in the case of virtex,
mircea_popescu: resulting in a good 4k btc loss for their "investors".
mircea_popescu: among others.
ReutersEmily: what about the fact that neobee is collectuing euros promising customers exposure to btc "with none of the risk?"
mircea_popescu: well that seems just about the average stupid thing they'd say.
mircea_popescu: recently, it was discovered (here) that they had misworded their contract.
mircea_popescu: let me find it for you
kakobrekla: its a prospectus.
LordPutin: <3 Putin forever
ReutersEmily: thanks
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily anyway, if you're positive-constructively inclined, they probably mean "with none of the risk holding your own btc entails, such as you not having a clue and deleting the wallet"
mircea_popescu: obviously this is not what one would read, be that one reasonable or otherwise, and obviously this point is not lost on them.
mircea_popescu: but this is what passes for "pr" these days, at least at the havelock level of things.
ReutersEmily: who runs havelock?
mircea_popescu: well apparently nobody.
mircea_popescu: a guy by the name topace used to, and claims he is no longer because some offshore corp bought it.
mircea_popescu: i buy that just about as much as any other flying pigs scenario.
BingoBoingo: "Moved to Panama"
ReutersEmily: well they have numbers you can call for help or whatever
mircea_popescu: until the securities and exchange comission of panama figures out how to work with me, i guess this shitshow'll continue.
BingoBoingo: For a while "moving to Panama" was such a popular claim it was nearly a meme in this space
ReutersEmily: i called one yesterday and got a recording and a menu
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily splendid. so what did you order ?
ReutersEmily: nothing
mircea_popescu: i hear the sichuan duck is good.
ReutersEmily: but someone has to be running it
LordPutin: i called them once and Dave from fbi answered
mircea_popescu: if you hang around maybe topace sees the highlights.
mircea_popescu: (this software works so that if anyone is mentioned - or has any strings of interest mentioned - they get a signal)
ReutersEmily: topace?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it seems just by the time you're done with your post you can start on another eh.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So it seems
ReutersEmily: BingoBoingo where do you post
kakobrekla: just bash it.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The first one was done, maybe an hour ago
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla does assbot support this many lines ? such wow. much amount.
kakobrekla: not enough doges to cover for it.
khersonus: Reuters on IRC? I can't decide if this is the future or the past, but I like it.
assbot: Last 1200 lines bashed and pending review. (
BingoBoingo: !b 1200
mircea_popescu: it's the future in the past.
khersonus: ReutersEmily: how did you find out about this place?
mircea_popescu: and now the hunter becomes the prey :D
khersonus: normally I just read the logs, but this was worth hopping on for
ReutersEmily: khersonus I wanted to talk to mircea_popescu about the SEC letter
khersonus: awesome
Namworld: khersonus, there was no proof provided that whoever is asking question is from Reuters. Someone joined and asked questions. People are answering. It could be left at that. Does it matter how or why someone arrived here?
mircea_popescu: nah im pretty sure it's the genuine article.
ReutersEmily: Huh I wonder how I would go about proving I'm from Reuters - happy to offer proof if you want
ReutersEmily: you can email me at
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily do you have a twitter ?
ReutersEmily: yeah its @FlitterOnFraud
mircea_popescu: so twitter anything related to this convo
mircea_popescu: i'm @mircea_popescu
ReutersEmily: oh sure thing
nubbins`: i have to say, things are interesting around here lately
khersonus: Namworld: I felt the need to ask, so I asked. Does it matter that I asked?
Namworld: No need. What I mean is, someone comes in here and ask questions, they'll probably get an answer, wether from the press or just a random stranger. Who the person actually is doesn't matter.
Namworld: khersonus, not really.
ReutersEmily: oh didn't see your handle till after i tweeted hold on i'll do another one
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Honestly by 2015 I imagine this will be the norm
mircea_popescu: wow this is the prettiest spring outside
mircea_popescu: everything in my garden's in bloom
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, thank fred phelps
mircea_popescu: whats he do.
Namworld: It's spring already eh? Not in Canada sadly.
nubbins`: Namworld shush, you'll jinx it.
nubbins`: i went outside yesterday without a jacket
nubbins`: it was glorious
mircea_popescu: Namworld it has been for a week. all the cherry trees are pink
mircea_popescu: this shall henceforth be known as the mp curse, too.
mircea_popescu: when i originally picked a date for the secret conference, it was mostly tied to when this particular walkway of cherries would likely be in bloom.
mircea_popescu: then they hurried up and everyone missed it.
mircea_popescu: this year ? idem.
hdbuck: "covering financial crimes, including insider trading, investment scams, accounting fraud and financial firm misconduct" that sounds like a hell of a work. ^^
nubbins`: no cherry blossoms here, but there was a man looking confusedly back and forth between my house, the house next door, and the key in his hand
nubbins`: he eventually decided he didn't live on this street, and wandered off
ozbot: Twitter / FlitterOnFraud: @mircea_popescu I wonder whether ...
ReutersEmily: hdbuck it's a fun beat but i don't think it's good for my blood pressure
LordPutin: dont forget ukyo the bitfunder scam artists
mircea_popescu: you have a blood pressure ?
nubbins`: you don't?!
mircea_popescu: gotta have no blood pressure.
nubbins` ponders this over coffee
ReutersEmily: oh right ukyo
ReutersEmily: i am so glad you rbought that up LordPutin
nubbins`: so what, you strap yourself into a centrifuge feet-out for sleep and head-out for thinking?
LordPutin: he ripped off people like 5 million dollars
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's complicated and has a lot to do with spiders.
LordPutin: mircea will fill you in
ReutersEmily: i also am trying to find out - why did he (Jon Montroll) go to hang out with Danny Brewster after that happened, and how did that whole thing get resolved?
BingoBoingo: And that thing might be related to the Cyprus thing, kinds
nubbins`: oh god spiders D:
mircea_popescu: gotta remember, we're on the web. and the web is for spiders.
Namworld: Ah, Ukyo still owes me a large sum.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well you know, people ocasionally go hang out. but
mircea_popescu: ;;seen Ukyo
gribble: Ukyo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Ukyo> Kinda hard to give what doesnt exist.
mircea_popescu: he was here recently, so perhaps can get back to you.
ReutersEmily: I would love to get in touch with him.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily one of the better things you can do is get an irc client and set it up. thgat way you have your own logs, highlights, tab completes etc
thestringpuller: did the Ukyo loan default
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
Namworld: He doesn't speak much at all usually. I doubt he'll talk to the press when he refuses to say anything to anyone.
mircea_popescu: (for instance i don't write out ReutersEmily every time i name you, i just type out re)
thestringpuller: is ThickAsThieves the only person to issue a bond and not fuck over people?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller namworld did it.
mircea_popescu: a bunch of people did it.
thestringpuller: oh yea BTC.BOND
LordPutin: ukyo must pay for his crimes
ReutersEmily: what is an irc client
mircea_popescu: there was some unfortunate guy that took out a bond in btc and paid it out early on
thestringpuller: ReutersEmily: aren't you on an irc client right now?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily what os do you use ?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller she's on the webchat thing
Namworld: Software to access IRC channels. I suppose you're using the webchat?
dexX7: webchat
dexX7: look at the hostmask
ReutersEmily: uh...they just upgraded our computers here at work to windows whatever - 7?
mircea_popescu: ;;google windows 7 irc client
gribble: The Top 7 Best Free IRC Clients for Windows 7 - MakeUseOf: <>; Good IRC Clients? : windows - Reddit: <>; XChat: Multiplatform Chat Program: <>
thestringpuller: lol mIRC it up
Namworld: You can log from an actual, complete client of your choice. Usually comes with logs and more features.
mircea_popescu: pick from there.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: most of us use dedicated software to connect to irc, rather than a website like you're using
ReutersEmily: yeah i'm using the webchat right now
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: sort of like gmail vs. outlook
thestringpuller: lol outlook
BingoBoingo: Except Webchat doesn't log
ReutersEmily: cool thanks
thestringpuller: you mean gmail vs thunderbird :P
nubbins`: thestringpuller: last office i worked in used lotus notes ;D
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nice example nubsy. it's totally like outlook.
thestringpuller high fives nubbins`
thestringpuller: my last office used lotus too!
Namworld: [10:19] <mircea_popescu> thestringpuller namworld did it.
ReutersEmily: when you say, "log," BingoBoingo, you mean save records of every chat so you can go back and read it after?
bounce: reutersemily, mind a personal opinion question?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily exactly.
nubbins`: thestringpuller: great for when you want your computer to freeze when opening an email
Namworld: Well technically I have yet to repay everyone, so, no, that's not yet a fact.
dexX7: this channel is logged anyway:
mircea_popescu: Namworld ah ? didn't know that. how much you still have out ?
thestringpuller: someone understands my pain
BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: Right. This channel has a log linked in the topic, but for other channels and conversations you depend on your client to keep logs for you
ReutersEmily: bounce no i don't mind
bounce: since you're covering fraud and stuff, what do you think about this stance that insider trading shouldn't be illegal?
Namworld: About 180 BTC, more or less. I would need to check.
nubbins`: that's a stance?!
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the real reason you want a client is that you can then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and that is good quality safety, not the sort of crud normally peddled.
dexX7: teach her
mircea_popescu: really if i had to talk to a ws whistleblower, thats what i'd use, or else pgp over email.
bounce: forgot who wrote the piece I remember reading, quick google tells me john carney and dylan matthews said things to that tune not too long ago
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu I would love to do that
mircea_popescu: aite. lots to read, lots to absorb. pace yourself
ReutersEmily: bounce I think carney does think that
nubbins`: i tried to get a local CBC investigative reporter set up w/ pgp
nubbins`: it didn't really take
LordPutin: that's terrible Namworld i feelforyou
mircea_popescu: hey, bounce has good q's.
bounce: well that's clear enough. :)
ReutersEmily: ok so regarding that insider trading question
mircea_popescu: Namworld but you were about 2k at the top right ?
Namworld: 2k? No, never over 500 BTC.
ReutersEmily: i guess the people who think insider trading shouldn't be illegal argue that if you can work hard for the advantage--ie get contacts inside a company to leak you stuff or whatever, you deserve the competitive advantage?
Namworld: I think you're thinking of something else.
ReutersEmily: but the opposite view is that it makes the markets totally unfair
ReutersEmily: how could joe schmoe with an eTrade account ever compete
nubbins`: as an investor, i'd be pretty sore if an officer of the company in which i invested started telling his buddies when to sell
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well the better opposite view is that it's really not against the people working at companies' interest to allow that "hard work" to fruit, as opposed to the interest of the actual companies.
ReutersEmily: i guess, without offering too much of an opinion since I am a journalist and not supposed to have any, i would add that the markets aren't fair anyway
Namworld: Information on the market is assymetric everywhere else, almost. I don't see why force it for securities.
mircea_popescu: Namworld this is exactly the equivalent of "why regulate psychoactives" debate. because if you can you must, and if it's legal to do amphetamines companies will start mandating their employees do it.
bounce: difference between having an opinion and letting it colour your writing, which could well be a challenge to separate.
mircea_popescu: unless you want to live in a world of socialised dope care, it'll have to stay illegal.
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu you're right it also does affect the stability of a company's stock price theoretically when you have insider activity
nubbins`: socialised dope care
bounce: but anyway, thanks.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i wouldn't want to be in any board where the ceo goes "well icahn just offered me 50mn, what you guys got"
ReutersEmily: bounce have you heard of Steve Cohen?
mircea_popescu: because i'd likely just start screaming and overturning tables.
Namworld: No, it's not like saying you must mandate it, you can't mandate assymetry, it naturally occurs.
ReutersEmily: if insider trading were legal we would have an even deeper gap between have and have nots
bounce: the name popped up in a wonkblog piece I googled just now; could well be the one I read earlier. name didn't stick, but he got done for insider trading.
dexX7: mpex as sro.. would this also imply things like the rota project?
ReutersEmily: bounce
nubbins`: ah, the rota
ReutersEmily: he sort of got done in but sort of not
nubbins`: kinda sad i missed out on that
mircea_popescu: dexX7 perhaps. though the rota project as originally designed proved unworkable. it'd have to be worked on.
ReutersEmily: anyway, Cohen said in a deposition a few years ago he thought insider trading rules were "vague"
dexX7: yes, but i really like the idea.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily now that they are.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 i do think there's something there myself. just, you know... apparently it also burns.
dexX7: i read it :p
bounce: hard to see how they would not be
ReutersEmily: well they're pretty straightforward in that you have to have a tipper and a tipee, and the tipee has to know that the tipper is getting a personal benifit in exchange for giving out inside info
ReutersEmily: so actually mircea_popescu i am sure i can find this on your site too but how do you keep people from insider trading on MPEx?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily you've followed the cases in the past few years, since it's your beat. would you say in each and every one it was your opinion that the actions as decided by either sec or courts were in fact correct ?
mircea_popescu: i don't, mostly because i can't.
Namworld: But at the same time, if you need to work hard to earn through Business, why shouldn't those who have information through working hard not trade on it? Why prevent use of such information? I would perhaps only agree to go against management insider trading in case of catastrophic scenario (undeclared losses/bankruptcy), where management would probably both have ruined the company and
Namworld: yet cleared the orderbook.
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu regarding cases brought over the past few years....of the 79 criminal insider trading cases brought by Manhattan federal prosecutor, not one has ended in an acquittal
Namworld: But never prevent insider trading on the buying side.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i asked for your own call.
mircea_popescu: consider for instance the outrageous case of the swiss heinz options traders.
nubbins`: thestringpuller +1
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu i know. i don't know each of the cases well enough to be able to say they were "all correct"
nubbins`: "so are you gonna cash out when btc hits <arbitrary large number>?"
Namworld: But I haven't had time to think about this topic in details to form a specific or resilient opinion of the matter.
nubbins`: "i won't have to"
ReutersEmily: but of the cases i did cover closely i never saw a defendant i thought was wrongly accused.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` fuck, i could have said that. who beat me to the punch ?
nubbins`: morpheus apparently
nubbins`: see tsp's link
mircea_popescu: that is EXACTLY the point. go morpheus.
mod6: :)
nubbins`: i was actually explaining this to my mother yesterday
mircea_popescu: i was actually explaining this to a guy from wired yesterday
nubbins`: she said ":0"
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: did he say :0?
mircea_popescu: "o x y z won't invest in btc" "dude, it matters not if they do it directly or tyhrough n layers abstracting it from you, it's still what's going on"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` he said "i shall ponder this over tea"
nubbins` spits
nubbins`: poor guy ;(
ReutersEmily: i lost you guys on that last little bit
ReutersEmily: maybe it's because i haven't seen the matrix
nubbins`: heh.
mod6: wat
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: a common question is "so will you cash out all your btc when it reaches <large usd value>?"
nullp: exit
nubbins`: which begs the question a bit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06301302 = 0.126 BTC [+]
Namworld: Well it's pretty much what's said in the movie, edited a bit to include Bitcoin.
nubbins`: since if btc has reached a large usd value, it would be because you can actually use it as currency in a great many places
ReutersEmily: as in, people asumme you're going to get "out" of bitcoin
ReutersEmily: instead of continuing to function in it
ReutersEmily: and that is what you were trying to explain to the wired guy who had to go and drink tea and think about it afterwards?
nubbins`: for example: if 1btc=$1m, i wouldn't need to "cash out" because i could just as easily spend my btc at walmart
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily instead of everyone else having to get in, wanting or not.
Namworld: So yeah, if BTC is ever worth a fortune each, there will probably be no need to trade them for cash, they'll probably be widely accepted by then for them to have appreciated that much..
ReutersEmily: ok i get it
nubbins`: the implication being that widespread acceptance is the only thing that will lead to sustained high value
ReutersEmily: yeah that makes sense
mircea_popescu: check out how confusing irc can be!
nubbins`: it's a bit of an "a-ha moment"
mircea_popescu: it gets worse, too.
ReutersEmily: then maybe people will just be asking if you are going to get out the trading
ReutersEmily: like the way you talk about hedge fund guys who make zillions and could retire at 40
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: in my experience, those who day trade don't really hold long-term, and vice versa
Namworld: That would make more sense, at least for those that daytrade.
mircea_popescu: i would agree. there's about a million btc represented here,
nubbins`: for example, i don't day trade, and i don't think most others here do either
mircea_popescu: of which i doubt very much is traded on any sort of a daily basis.
ReutersEmily: have you all met in real life?
Namworld: 1 million? In here? Hmm... Perhaps.
nubbins`: i've met none of these people in real life, and don't have any plans to
nubbins`: altho i think a fair number of people in here will be hitting up the conference
mircea_popescu: nubbins` does that make you a shut in ?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: only on irc ;D
mircea_popescu: so a shut irc
nubbins`: not much of a ring to it
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i've met a few, but as a general rule no.
Namworld: Some have met some of the people in this channel. Although there's currently over an hundred participant and it varies a lot from day to day.
nubbins`: i met people from irc only once in my life, and it was pretty goddamn weird
mircea_popescu: ;;seen nefario
gribble: nefario was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 25 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 43 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <nefario> Those assets are not listed or traded anymore
nubbins`: this was maybe 12 years ago
Namworld: I haven't met anyone in this channel in person. At least not knowingly. But I haven't attended any Bitcoin related event to start with.
mircea_popescu: now that guy, who was running glbse, met a bunch of these folks irl.
nubbins`: well ya know. successful scammers shake hands
nubbins`: what a word for hands that starts with S?
mircea_popescu: i like gribble's precision at any rate. it was x y z and 45 seconds ago.
Namworld: Nefario returned most BTC, decided to screw it for the remainder and disappear.
ReutersEmily: so...Reuters is just getting into the coverage of you guys have buring questions you'd like to see answered in a mainstream press article?
radan: what is the future of bitcoin
nubbins`: heh.
radan: is bitcoin even real
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily if you manage to idle here you'll get the scoops as they happen.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily ^
Namworld: I think that's been covered too much, radan.
radan: how many of these dang bitcoins are there anyway
mircea_popescu: pretty much all the major stories broke here, often days early
ThickerThanThiev: so much log to catch up on...
nubbins`: is the morning newspaper for happenings in this space
mircea_popescu: ThickerThanThiev o hey, neobee is in there.
nubbins`: lots of cruft, but diamonds hidden in the rough
chetty: I'd love to see the press stick a knife in the "bitcoin is a ponzi" meme
Namworld: Well true, events are usually known in Bitcoin IRC channels days before they make the news outlets.
mircea_popescu: qualifications for journalism these days. "must be young and like to read"
Namworld: News people don't seem to hang on IRC too much, although who knows, maybe some of those silent people are from some news outlets.
nubbins`: Namworld you'd hope so
mircea_popescu: chetty that's a cute one. i recently saw a reference to the beanie babies. conveniently failing to mention that this thing's been going for five years, and dropped precipitously three times at least
dexX7: Namworld: too much noise usually
ReutersEmily: well one thing we have a hard time with is how to verify stuff that is said or posted on these forums
Namworld: Yes, that and they don't have much time to allocate to Bitcoin either.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily give an example.
only_: ReutersEmily: something like "will MP get away with running an unregulated stock exchange on the interwebz?" that would be nice.
radan: dr. popescu, what do you think of coinbase
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: the best you can do re: verification is to verify who's saying things.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: this channel -- and a few others -- have identification features that are useful to this end
mircea_popescu: radan i never used them. people ocasionally call scam but it doesn't usually seem to be the case.
ReutersEmily: well like some of the Mt Gox stuff that came out - that leaked crisis plan - and then the back-office stuff
radan: I have a few btc with them, and I'm not sure whether it's secure
ThickerThanThiev: [23:52] <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves you drew that shit ?! /// Not quite, I modified what Pink Eye created into that version. Maybe one day I'll put up my own portfolio again...
mircea_popescu: unless the price moves sharply against them they'll prolly be ok.
Namworld: nubbins', to the press, that's not going to be enough unless it's firsthand from the business' owner if it's about a Bitcoin business.
mircea_popescu: you're always best advised to keep your own wallets.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: regarding that leaked crisis plan, did you see the actual PDF? with the "redactions" on the financials page?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily that stuff was always regarded as dubious
mircea_popescu: but people accepted it as an "well... gotta talk of something"
ReutersEmily: i don't remember off teh top of my head what format that was in because it was my colleagues in Japan who took a close look at that
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: you might be interested to know that the guy who "leaked" the document -- selkis, i think -- actually did the redactions himself
Namworld: True, hard to verify when you don't have your own balance to verify against the leaked info (re hacked accoutns details).
Namworld: Or leaked crisis plan.
nubbins`: which led me to believe that he sort of made the whole document up, and it got traction, so gox figured "now's as good a time as any"
hdbuck: did Magicaltux hang out in here?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` this is definitely a possibility.
mircea_popescu: the other being that he's ver's sock and just you know... came up with something.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: i can't think of any other reason for a document leaker to modify the documents he's leaking.
nubbins`: ah, sure
mircea_popescu: well the guy is kinda attention-seeking.
nubbins`: no kidding.
ReutersEmily: roger?
mircea_popescu: so you know, who knows what goes on in the narcissist head.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily yes.
nubbins`: roger sounds right
Namworld: Well at least hanging in here could at least provide info about where to look for verifying soon to be news before it happens.
mircea_popescu: anyway ReutersEmily the verification of such things is a fuzzy affair at best. you end up weighting things, who said what who they work with who trusts them and why etc.
mircea_popescu: a web of trust sort of scenario.
BingoBoingo: That whole foundation crowd really is just a wash.
ReutersEmily: yeah i will hang in here. i can't believe 2 hours have gone by since i got to work and this is what i've been doing the whole time - ha!
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily that's ok, you've barely scratched it :p
ReutersEmily: you mean the bitcoin foundation BingoBoingo?
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: keep this up and you'll join the clan of people who can afford to sit around on freenode all day ;D
Neil: More evidence that money in your bank isn't really yours:
BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: Yeah, they just really pump each other's dubious ventures and collect money they don't provide accounting for
nubbins`: bitcoin foundation is a bit of a lel.
nubbins`: what do you expect from a group of self-appointed wizards tho
ReutersEmily: what do you think of the Wall Street contingent in bitcoin, like SecondMarket?
Namworld: Even the public figures, there's distrust in them. Mostly because they tend to always have numerous ties with big scammers which keeps showing up in the public figures pool.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily they're trying, but i think you probably know more in places by now than silbert does
ReutersEmily: does Silbert chat in here?
mircea_popescu: not afaik.
Namworld: SecondMarket fits its goal like intended, neither great nor bad.
mircea_popescu: Namworld well afaik they got burned pretty well in gox.
mircea_popescu: which is... whatever, kinda noobish.
BingoBoingo: The Wall Street contingent seems more honest, but they are going to have to go through growing pains
BingoBoingo: Learning the lessons other people learned much earlier
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu how do you know they got burned in gox?
only: SecondMarket held coins in gox? lol
dexX7: i doubt that
mircea_popescu: in other words, bitcoin is its own field. having a good fundamental basis in finance is a plus. a big one, perhaps,
nubbins`: EVERYONE held coins in gox
mircea_popescu: but it doesn't do your work for you.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i hear things.
Namworld: Their problem, unlike Gox/others, they can deal. If they can't learn/adapt, they'll drop it.
nubbins`: well, i shouldn't say everyone
BingoBoingo: Much of the Bitcoin Foundation seems to be career hucksters of the Amway-franchisee sort.
nubbins`: but a lot of people who you'd think would know better.
chetty: not everyone nubbins'
mircea_popescu: nubbins` tell you what ? a lot of people who i'd think would know better had btc with pirate.
mircea_popescu: people be people. they tend to the flame.
mircea_popescu: as the great persian poet said.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: it's hard trying to figure out how greedy to be, as the great nubs said
mircea_popescu: so you got burned in gox. coulda just have said that you know :D
nubbins`: nooooo, i never put a satoshi in gox
mircea_popescu: too late now.
nubbins`: my battle with greed was more focused on satoshidice and asicminer
ReutersEmily: ok guys....thank you so so much for being so nice to me and answering my questions. i am going to get on the phone in a minute so probably won't be able to pay as much attention in here, but i think i'll stay signed in
ReutersEmily: anyway thank you. i really appreciate your time.
mircea_popescu: yeah asicminer. when were they delivering the new things again ?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily cheers.
nubbins`: ReutersEmily cheers
dexX7: almost ready to re: am
dexX7: cya
nubbins`: mircea_popescu who knows, i stopped keeping up with AM months ago
mircea_popescu: i thought it was just about now or something like that.
nubbins`: sounds familiar
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima go eat. don't break bitcoin meanwhile pls.
nubbins`: yah, i've got a busy day too
nubbins`: procrastinating here
nubbins`: gotta make bread AND sausages :D
Namworld: I think Silber was involved in Bitcoin way before SecondMarket thing if I'm not mistaken. Shame he doesn't hang out in the BTC channels.
Namworld: Different point of views are nice.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00093089 = 21.3639 BTC [+]
nubbins`: anyone able to suggest a suitable marinade for moose steaks?
ozbot: Google
Duffer1: sounds good
nubbins`: gonna go with the allrecipes beer/soya/dijon one
Duffer1: i was just reading that one
Duffer1: beer can make a surprisingly good marinade
nubbins`: nod. beer can chicken, even
nubbins`: not quite a marinade but y'know
Duffer1: not quite marinade but more than a seasoning
nubbins`: normally i get roast-style hunks of moose, but they're more like t-bones this time around
nubbins`: yeah
Duffer1: i've never had moose
nubbins`: it's nice
Duffer1: compared to deer?
nubbins`: never had deer
nubbins`: it's slightly gamier and spicier than beef
nubbins`: and very lean
nubbins`: so lean that it's usually consumed ground, either in burgers, meatballs, or sausages
nubbins`: generally with pork fat
Namworld: Well that's lean lean
Duffer1: i'd love to try that
nubbins`: moose sausage is divine
nubbins`: this will actually be my first time eating moose steak
Duffer1: what are your sides?
ReutersEmily: omg i love moose sausage
ReutersEmily: are you in western canada?
nubbins`: ReutersEmily, eastern canada - newfoundland
ReutersEmily: oh - cool!
nubbins`: they brought two moose over here in the 1800s, didn't work out, so they brought over two more
nubbins`: now the island is covered in 'em :)
ReutersEmily: heh, seriously? i had no idea they were introduced
nubbins`: yep, invasive species
nubbins`: they're a real danger on the highways :D
ReutersEmily: oh gosh i can imagine...that would be the fastest way to turn your car into a convertible, hitting a moose
nubbins`: well the problem is that they're tall with skinny legs, so if you hit one, it's coming in through the windshield
nubbins`: and as much as i like moose, 1200lbs all at once is a bit too much ;)
nubbins`: Duffer1: not sure yet, but i'm thinking roasted potato and maybe asparagus
kakobrekla: what you get is a nonconvertible convertible
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: seriously tho, it's a real danger, to the point where some people have been calling for a widespread cull
nubbins`: "why do we value moose more than our children" etc
Duffer1: because moose are more delicious than children?
ReutersEmily: so i would imagine there's a ton of moose hunting though right?
kakobrekla: have you tried children?
nubbins`: kakobrekla ;D
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: yep, i've never paid for any moose meat
nubbins`: it finds its way to the people who enjoy it
Duffer1: ha no nope not nooo
nubbins`: i've been considering getting a license, but having friends in rural communities is just as good, in practice
ozbot: [Now IPO on ripple] exchange shares
nubbins`: anyway, seriously gotta get moving. i've got ten pounds of pork shoulder to cut and grind, two loaves of bread to bake, and a ton of prep work in the studio
nubbins`: cheers
Duffer1: good luck ^.^
mircea_popescu: btw, someone drop a link in #freenode so they know they've been useful.
hdbuck: really dont know what to think of ripple since everybody claims its a scam :/
mircea_popescu: if they can't figure out how to take donations at least let them have that satisfaction
mircea_popescu: <ReutersEmily> oh gosh i can imagine...that would be the fastest way to turn your car into a convertible, hitting a moose <<< bwagaga
mircea_popescu: so that's a first, she gets into the bash.
kakobrekla: too slow.
ReutersEmily: what does that mean?
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily a bash is an old internet tradition, a collection of striking, funny or just memorable quotes
ReutersEmily: oh - cool
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets bash
mircea_popescu: seems you were alrwady in there tho.
ReutersEmily: because of your "what did you order" comment
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm an enabler.
mircea_popescu: i make other people's shit work.
spam_mania: hello
ReutersEmily: indeed
mircea_popescu: did anyone else notice nubsy sounds just like a girl in a 1950s strict household ?
Duffer1: ReutersEmily: who runs havelock? >> The Panama Fund SA (no idea what that means or who's behind it, I suspect Voorhees is related somehow)
ThickAsThieves: Such log
ThickAsThieves: I made it
ThickAsThieves: good day
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 srsly ? why ?
Duffer1: cause panama
dexX7: your daily dose of -asset gossip, eh? ;)
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves how long did it take you ?
ThickAsThieves: an hour or so?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00331456 = 0.1359 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07035515 = 1.4071 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 that's a point i guess.
Duffer1: i mean 'suspect' in the loosest, just pulled that outta my ass, sense
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves just wanted to get it on the record for 2016, when it'll be like the 10k btc pizza.
ReutersEmily: so - i just downloaded HexChat and if I just click out of this window, will I be able to put ReutersEmily into "nickname" and have it work?
ThickAsThieves: ReutersEmily, I can offer some insight on Havelock and Neo, but I am not an official representative for either.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily possibly not
mircea_popescu: best to register your nick first.
mircea_popescu: do you know how to use nickserv ?
ReutersEmily: ThickAsThieves I'd love to hear your thoughts.
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu I don't know what nickserv is
ozbot: How to Register a User Name on Freenode: 7 Steps (with Pictures)
dexX7: lel
ThickAsThieves: Well, Havelock, we are told at least, we purchased by the Panama Fund. It, as far as I can tell, is run by the same person that runs CFIG.
Duffer1: it will allow you to keep your nick across any freenode irc chan
ThickAsThieves: we = was
LordPutin: agent smith runs havelock
ThickAsThieves: CFIG is listed on Havelock.
ThickAsThieves: I'm not sure if its actually done anything itself.
ThickAsThieves: topace, is a contractor for the IT side of Havelock afaik.
LordPutin: didn't you useto represent neobee the start?
ThickAsThieves: only as a contractor
LordPutin: ahh k
ThickAsThieves: I have no authority to speak for them, but I have helped to deliver their messages
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000023 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00331456 = 0.1989 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: Danny Brewster, the CEO, is generally easy to reach though.
ThickAsThieves: They issued an updated prospectus, and afaik, will release updated finanicial projections this week. I am not clear whether they we will include a report of current accounts. I assume it will.
dexX7: ^ TAT is an asset issuer on HL
ThickAsThieves: Yes, I have represented ASICMINER depositary receipts and issued, and made whole, a successful bitcoin bond.
ThickAsThieves: I don't run any of them anymore though.
hdbuck: tat why? got bored?
ThickAsThieves: Grew up.
ThickAsThieves: My confidence in ASICMINER exposing me to liability was justifiably compromised over time.
ReutersEmily: huh it looks like HexChat is trying to connect me to freenode but it says connection failed...a couple of times
LordPutin: i thinkitsover forasicminer
LordPutin: theyreally messed things up
ThickAsThieves: that's not even clear, not even to the board
ThickAsThieves: part of the problem really
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily if it's trying to connect you on this same name it'd prolly fail as the name's already in use.
ThickAsThieves: there's a whole story in there i may write up some day
ReutersEmily: Oh i see
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well why not today ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^
ThickAsThieves: well how to write while IRCing?
mircea_popescu: touchtyping!
mircea_popescu: you lean over and touch on someone who's typing
ThickAsThieves: basically i really need to get a blog going
mircea_popescu: i took mp's advice and started one earlier.
Duffer1: ;;gpg info ReutersEmily
gribble: No such user registered.
Duffer1: too soon? ^.^
LordPutin: idliketosee atatblog
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 probably tomorrow's job :p
LordPutin: ireallyneed a new spacebar
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you could call it Tit for Tat, and have a nice shapely round tit in the header.
thestringpuller: ReutersEmily: so you're getting paid to be on irc right now? lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'technologies of controlled chaos'. subject more or less beaten to death in the russian world.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so much in english
ThickAsThieves: Don't we all get paid to be here?
ReutersEmily: thestringpuller yeah i think that's funny too
mircea_popescu: i don't ;/
mircea_popescu: nobody's ever paying me to do anything.
rithm: vir quisque vir
rithm: tit for tat my ass
LordPutin: you'rerich enough anyway mircea u dontneedtogetpaid
rithm: y y guys talk so much
rithm: hu huh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik, pretty much the only one who's put in the sweat to explain it in english is orlov
Duffer1: you're in the right chan for sure reutersemily this chan spawn enough material to sustain multiple daily blogs
ThickAsThieves: I feel like I'm paid to be here.
ThickAsThieves: When really we should all be PAYING
LordPutin: oprah cleans yourtoilets
mircea_popescu: rithm and who might you be ?
rithm: yo mamma
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly so yeah
rithm: i'm gawker
rithm: i like to write things
mircea_popescu: you're a gawker moar like it.
rithm goes back to gawking
LordPutin: so tat can you give some insight what you're workingon atm?
ThickAsThieves: as mentioned before, i'm still trying to decide.
mircea_popescu: o hey, tat sounds like a girl in a loose 1970s household.
mircea_popescu: we got it all.
ThickAsThieves: I have a few paths to consider, but none seem to be the obvious choice.
BingoBoingo: rithm: From Gawker?
hdbuck: I'd like some insights on Havelock & AM since i happen to deal with both simultaneously ^^
LordPutin: what areyouroptions oristhat confidental?
rithm: BingoBoingo stop nick highlighting me sometimes i lie on the internet
ThickAsThieves: really the one pulling me is to backpack across europe... but I have a wife.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's jcpham
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so send her postcards.
chetty: TAT: so take her along
LordPutin: wife? sorryto hear that bro
mircea_popescu: chetty yeah, even better
ThickAsThieves: well she has a more traditional career, and newly scored a dream job in endangered specis conservation.
ThickAsThieves: species*
ThickAsThieves: so at best maybe we'll get regular trips to the Congo :/
chetty: TAT: so backpack thru some deserts and jungles
ThickAsThieves: I'm not interested in such
LordPutin: endagered species like a straight bitcoiner?
mircea_popescu: o yeah, backpacking throgh the congo outbush.
mircea_popescu: that's happening.
mircea_popescu: spend a day with the machete to go from the house ot the garage
LordPutin: going through europe sounds good you might evenmake some connections or findwhat you're looking for in the world
ThickAsThieves: and then get raped and killed by poachers
Namworld: thestringpuller, she's probably paid to talk with people all the time. I don't see why that would exclude chatting session with relevant people to an article, like Mircea. Which happens to be mostly talking only in this channel, as he seems to have made his online residence here.
Namworld: So probably not too strange.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves not even necessarily in that order.
ThickAsThieves: western conservation reservations in the congo have been pillages in such ways just so rebels could make a point to unrelated parties
ThickAsThieves: pillaged*
mircea_popescu: well, that and the rape.
LordPutin: my goal is tto video interview mircea oneday, i hope to achieve it
rithm: bad idea
rithm: he'll burn a koran
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily so anyway, what's the story with this Bob Dobalina ?
ThickAsThieves: "For an entire day scenes of horror and panic ripped through Epulu. Many people fled into the forest, others were taken hostage to carry the loot of the attackers. Women were raped. Seven people were killed. Among the dead are two park guards and the wife of another. Two of these were burned. Some reported that Amisi’s wife was burned alive, perhaps caught in the chaos as the outlaws
ThickAsThieves: incinerated park infrastructure and guard homes. Others seemed shot almost at random: Two people on a truck passing through Epulu, two other Epulu residents."
ThickAsThieves: Mr. Dobalina, Mr. Bob Dobalina
mircea_popescu: o jesus, some obscure cultural reference. i thought must be some junior senator or w/e. a square is me.
ozbot: Del Tha Funkee Homosapien - Mistadobalina (Video Version) - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: I like me some Del
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.41085150 BTC to 4`075 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
LordPutin: new deltron record was abit wack tho
ThickAsThieves: yeah i skipped it after the previews
ThickAsThieves: the original is classic tho
LordPutin: agreed
LordPutin: very classic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0706 = 0.1412 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 50.96337928 BTC to 80`674 shares, 63172 satoshi per share
ReutersEmily: same album as Mistadobalina also features a wonderful song called "What Is A Booty"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0654996 = 0.1965 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6076 @ 0.00093149 = 5.6597 BTC [+]
ozbot: Twitter / ReutersJamie: Those sanctions really having ...
mircea_popescu: this reminds me of an older mp article, re how the market knows who will win any conflict.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07298999 = 0.219 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06549985 = 0.131 BTC [+] {2}
LordPutin: itsa warm safe place that protects you against fear
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 50 @ 0.070576 = 3.5288 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: "I am starting to think that this "China" news is just a tactic to make the price drop."
ThickAsThieves: quick, these reddites
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: turns out the 50's housewives were running the show and just letting the men think they did ;)
mircea_popescu: there's an excellently superb quote in that link benkay pasted yest.
mircea_popescu: "I was flattered by his interest, so I thought it over. That is, I indulged
mircea_popescu: in what young men frequently mistake for thought. In imagination, I saw my
mircea_popescu: name over the door and myself in a fine glass office looking out and
mircea_popescu: watching clerks taking in money. I had, in anticipation, the thrill of
mircea_popescu: buying one store after another and going from town to town on tours of
mircea_popescu: inspection. I tickled my fancy with the idea of coming back to college and
mircea_popescu: letting the boys consult me as an experienced man of affairs. And having
mircea_popescu: finished this process of "thinking" I wired Carroll that I was ready to
mircea_popescu: join him."
mircea_popescu: so... yeah. he's starting to "think".
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07298999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yeah. they and those chicks of epulu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07298999 = 0.5839 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: The commissioner of the Texas State Securities Board issued an emergency order last week barring a private energy exploration company from accepting investments in bitcoin from non-accredited investors. The company, Balanced Energy LLC, allegedly solicited investors at the Texas Bitcoin Conference on March 6th with the statements “we don’t do any verification” and “we’re not
ThickAsThieves: the paperwork police,” and informed interested parties that capital contributions in bitcoin would be accepted.
ThickAsThieves: and you thought Havelock was bad
ThickAsThieves: these guys are doing worse on a stage
mircea_popescu: well obviously its a sliding scale.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07000023 = 1.05 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52400 @ 0.00093677 = 49.0867 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: personally, i blame the bitcoin foundation, and murck especially.
ThickAsThieves: interesting to finally see a bitcoin securities article in the bitcoin "community" media
mircea_popescu: their completely clueless, "let's do the motions" calisthenic approach to things is going to get a lot of young men as per the quote above in a lot of trouble
ThickAsThieves: the BF is scourge in most ways
LordPutin: i really hate bf
LordPutin: such scum
LordPutin: but at least they're taking the heat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.61038917 = 3.0519 BTC [+] {5}
ThickAsThieves: "However, anecdotal accounts have suggested that many participants in successful Kickstarter campaigns ultimately receive nothing at all from the companies to which they contribute."
ThickAsThieves: is that true?
jborkl: I did see the booth there pimping oil and gas
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61098914 = 3.6659 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: "At least one website,, provided a centralized place to both solicit and offer shares in Bitcoin related startups before shutting down last fall. "
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves its not anecdotal.
ThickAsThieves: THAT'S who gets a mention?
jborkl: GLBSE should have been the headliner
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin ragazine ? what is surprising to you here ?
ThickAsThieves: lol and of cource an Ethereum plug follows shortly after
ThickAsThieves: "Further, the concept of self-executing contracts, powered by Ethereum, could take much of the risk of non-performance by managers of startups off the table. "
mircea_popescu: this is exactly the problem. they keep getting beaten to shit, they keep hopping right up again
mircea_popescu: because infinite hitpoints.
ThickAsThieves: they seal it with a big fat kiss
mircea_popescu: at least shrem had the minimal decency to admit he's wrong. vessenes will have to go to prison,
ThickAsThieves: "Given the technological sophistication of most Bitcoiners, equity crowdfunding with payment in bitcoins is undoubtedly a solid match."
mircea_popescu: and he will go to prison still sprouting his delusional nonsense.
ThickAsThieves: bitcoinragazine has a sense of humor now?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well apparently some people see right through it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not like it's hard
ThickAsThieves: so, to confirm, Tor is essentially useless, in regards to its original purpose, now?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves twas on trilema was it not.
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Has it ever been useful for its stated purpose?
ThickAsThieves: i have no idea
ThickAsThieves: i asssumed it once worked as intended
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: tor is great because any kid can set up his own nsa, vacuuming up the packets of 'seekoore' idiots. i'll leave it at that.
ThickAsThieves: but i guess that window was very small and closed long ago
ozbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ThickAsThieves: if it was ever a window at all
asciilifeform: ;;google tor exit sweden
gribble: Dan Egerstad's Tor exit nodes get him arrested and proves a point I ...: <>; Swedish Researchers Uncover Dirty Tor Exit Relays: <>; Tips for Running an Exit Node with Minimal Harassment | The Tor (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: not exactly a secret in any sense, except for the reddit crowd.
radan: so, dr. popescu
mircea_popescu: why do you keep calling me dr. btw ?
ThickAsThieves: mircea, do you have any earned titles?
mircea_popescu: well... baron ?
radan: you said you would explain how a turn for traditionalism is related to femininity
mircea_popescu: radan a, that was a previous discussion, did you read that log ?
radan: I did
ozbot: Iran's fake aircraft carrier: U.S. officials say Iran Navy might blow it up for propaganda purposes.
mircea_popescu: ok. so i didn't read your "i wanna go to syria" as a "turn for traditionalism"
mircea_popescu: i read it simply as a desire to be hurt.
radan: well, young men have traditionally wanted to fight, and kill, since time immemorial
radan: modern society provides no outlet for this
mircea_popescu: not true.
mircea_popescu: you can start slinging dope downtown, you can join the marines, on it goes.
mircea_popescu: both the mob and the govt are always hiring.
ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure fighting and killing is the accurate distillation
radan: I'd rather not get arrested, and I'm well on my way towards getting a good degree
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but it seems to be his distillation nevertheless.
radan: if I can fight, I want to do it in defense of my people and for a cause I deem just
mircea_popescu: radan and you wish me to explain how all this is all about being a cunt ?
mircea_popescu: right right.
ozbot: The Divine Cunt pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.611 BTC [+]
radan: I'm interested in your analysis
BingoBoingo: radan: Most nations with armed forces have some sort of Officer Candidate course that can be pursued after a degree
mircea_popescu: seems self-obvious, neh ? if you want to wear a skirt in the shape of a good degree or not being arrested, that's fine and dandy, but if you want to be a man you generallyt couldn't care less what you're wearing.
mircea_popescu: at least, that is the traditional view on the matter.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61976742 = 1.2395 BTC [+]
radan: see, I don't think there's anything manly about dying for a ridiculous cause
radan: and most causes the US Army pursues are ridiculous
mircea_popescu: but what makes you suspect you;d know ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.0009405 = 6.7716 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.62 = 2.48 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: so what IS manly?
radan: in general, anything with high testosterone
radan: in this specific scenario
radan: to fight in defense of your people
radan: at least, that's what I think of it
mircea_popescu: you ever seen The Caine Mutiny ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05899899 = 0.295 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.06902187 = 1.1043 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.063001 = 0.126 BTC [+]
radan: so I value much more the syrian who goes to war for his people - on either side - than the US soldier
ThickAsThieves: btw I watched Gardens in the Night, turns out I had seen it before. it's awfully slow movie
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it is slow.
radan: who signs his life and his family's future over for thirty talents
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves anyway, i like how between our two questions he picked to answer yours.
ThickAsThieves: and it wasnt even really an answer
radan: dr. popescu, the vagaries of the US army are well known the world over
mircea_popescu: that's a lot more debatable, not that i idsagree.
ThickAsThieves: what's manly? well man juice of course!
mircea_popescu: radan the "us army" are not your problem.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.11950724 = 0.5975 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: quoth Lt. Barney Greenwald: "Ah, you're learning, Willie! You're learning that you don't work with a captain because you like the way he parts his hair. You work with him because he's got the job or you're no good! "
radan: they would be if I joined them
BingoBoingo: radan: There's always the French foreign legion
radan: which is one of the reasons I'm not
mircea_popescu: no, tyhey whould not be
radan: the FFL is full of arabs
radan: and criminals
mircea_popescu: not unless they call you a general chief of staff
ThickAsThieves: does one really even choose to join the US Army?
ThickAsThieves: it's more likely baked into a man
radan: the French use them as cannon fodder in colonial hellholes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06201001 = 0.124 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094037 = 2.8211 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899899 = 0.118 BTC [+]
radan: I say the French
radan: I mean sarkozy and his oligarch bunch
mircea_popescu: you know the communists took over meanwhile ?
radan: where?
radan: France?
mircea_popescu: well yes.
chetty: from the female standpoint = taking up arms beyond your own needs does not make you a man
radan: hollande is prime minister, now
mircea_popescu: anyway, being a man is all about fighting and getting killed for the proper oligarch.
nubbins`: chetty +1
mircea_popescu: this bullshit where you find fault with the world belongs with the skirts in a cramped greenwich village coffee house.
radan: the contry is run as it has been for an eternity by unelected bureaucrats and "rootless cosmopolitans"
mircea_popescu: you can say jews you know, nobody cares.
chetty: the country? you mean the world
radan: France more so than many other places
hdbuck: +1 ^^
radan: I think they have very little leeway over North Korea and Iran, for example
radan: which may be the reason those countries are so vilified lately
mircea_popescu: wasn't khomeini jewish ?
nubbins`: did i ever tell you guys about the client who insisted on "eco-friendly" (6.25%!) garments flown in from the other side of the continent rather than choosing local garments for half the price?
nubbins`: well this supplier they insisted on choosing fucked the order royally, and the remainder of it showed up today, 21 days late
nubbins`: the word "organic" isn't even on the tags anywhere
nubbins`: imagine, paying an extra ten dollars per shirt for the word "earth"
mircea_popescu: people pay an extra ten bitcoins per site for the words "bestest ever"...
nubbins`: my sides, etc
chetty: probably a lot more pollution too, transport and all
nubbins`: chetty: massively larger carbon footprint
nubbins`: but y'know, "organic"
nubbins`: "nature"
mircea_popescu: i wonder if they ever genetically engineer a colony of bacteria that knits
nubbins`: she was given the choice between a minimal environmental impact and the appearance of one, and she chose the latter
mircea_popescu: or maybe really small spiders.
nubbins`: STOP IT
mircea_popescu: imagine nubs : underwear you could eat
mircea_popescu: and so silky smooth...
chetty: sure, nanobots
nubbins`: you can already buy edible undies
nubbins`: but would ya really eat a pair? ;(
mircea_popescu: yes but not nearly as disgusting.
ozbot: xkcd: Control
nubbins`: ^ spiders and lsd in the same comic!
nubbins`: worlds collide
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radan: my philosophy goes like this.
radan: the current system of governance and finance, media and education, is dominated by a people hostile to my own
radan: any interaction I have with this society can only benefit them to our detriment
mircea_popescu: radan which are your own ?
radan: as a result
nubbins`: gone again, gotta track down sausage casings
radan: I don't see anything manly, or even beneficial in a feminine way, from sticking with it
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LordPutin: we need to get rid of women also
LordPutin: so can just hang out with our guy friends all day
chetty: radan there are many ways to buck the system, hang around here for a bit
radan: I'm Bulgarian, but nationality's a social construct. when I say "my people" I'm using it as a shorthand for people genetically close to me
radan: and anyway I study in the United States
radan: where the people are mixed beyond all belief
radan: and equally deluded
mircea_popescu: mkay. so saying "any interaction I have with this society can only benefit them to our detriment" is not only problematic seeing how you're away studying, but moreover a restatement of "x is invulnerable"
mircea_popescu: if you really believe that it'd seem your failure to reculturate is insanity.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07000022 = 0.14 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: besides, the best fucks i ever had were with people who weren't particularly genetically close to me.
mircea_popescu: don't limit yourself.
radan: I think the combined force of 15 million merchants and half a billion shabbos goyim is invulnerable to a single teenager, yes
hdbuck: me sad for france :(
mircea_popescu: what, sort-of like goliath ?
mircea_popescu: depends on the teenager.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00409107 = 4.0911 BTC [+] {6}
radan: I don't know what you mean by reculture, either
radan: I've mostly grown up in American culture
radan: my mannerisms are American
mircea_popescu: aculturation is the process throuygh which one becomes a part of a culture.
mircea_popescu: reculturation is the process called marriage for women, where an individual moves from one culture to another.
radan: what is American culture, though
mircea_popescu: well you're there, what are you asking me for.
radan: I follow the customs of this country
radan: beyond that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00412996 = 2.478 BTC [+] {10}
mircea_popescu: so do you like date ?
radan: yeah
BingoBoingo: American culture is mostly distorted versions of other cultures kind of assembled after a long game of telephone
radan: not this semester
radan: but
mircea_popescu: what's it like ?
radan: it's not anything like the movies portray it, lol
radan: it's just
radan: if you like a girl
radan: you hang out with her more
radan: and schedule stuff to do I gues
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0041 = 0.41 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you're obviously not studying very hard.
radan: I don't know how you do it in Wallachia
mircea_popescu: horseface whatshername would be ashamed of you.
radan: it's just normal, here. I can't really think of an alternativfe
radan: it's just normal, here. I can't really think of an alternativfe
mircea_popescu: ;;ud sex in the city
gribble: | A now retired HBO series in syndication that chronicles the life of four single heterosexual women living in New York City who behave like stereoty...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: sex and the city
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07000022 = 0.28 BTC [+]
radan: going back to the society bit
LordPutin: should you shave your balls for the first date?
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radan: seeing as how all of modern life and culture and all that are dust
radan: vanity of vanities
radan: umm
radan: just generally meaningless
radan: the natural thing for a man to do
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't go as far as to say all.
mircea_popescu: not that it's a novel idea to do so.
radan: is to follow the same prerogative that has guided his ancestors since the dawn of life
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299 = 0.365 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24050 @ 0.0009405 = 22.619 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well that may be tricky.
radan: the biological imperative.
mircea_popescu: so what are you doing here then
radan: of course it's tricky in the West
mircea_popescu: epulu awaits.
radan: they call it racism, nepotism, whatever
radan: unless you're a minority you're expected to treat everyone equally
radan: and those bastards have the audacity to call it altruism
radan: never mind that altruism refers to helping out one's own
radan: not the entire vast sum of humanity
mircea_popescu: not necessarily.
radan: what am I doing in the United States
radan: it's a damn good question
radan: some days I really feel like getting the fuck out of here
mircea_popescu: well i imagine your parents just took you there as an object
radan: but
radan: my plan is to graduate with a degree in petroleum engineering
radan: work for a few years in the oil industry
radan: save up a reasonable sum of money
BingoBoingo: radan: What part of the States are you most familiar with?
radan: invest a little in Mongolia or somewhere with a lot of resources
radan: and finally return to Europe
radan: where I can work on my goal full time.
radan: I live in Louisiana, bingo. it's a great state
radan: the people are very polite and friendly
Ghaleon: poboys
ozbot: SEC investigation of Bitcoin-based stock sale could lead to broader regulation
Ghaleon: i was in New orelans after Katrina
Ghaleon: good folks there.. city is corrupt tho.. sin city...
BingoBoingo: radan: It is polite country out there
BingoBoingo: Ghaleon: Corruption isn't always a bad thing
radan: well, when you look at the people doing the corruption
radan: you begin to notice a trend among them
radan: it's either nigs doing it or cajuns
mircea_popescu: Ghaleon i doubt anything beats chicago, still.
Ghaleon: new orleans cops were scary.. the DEA helped me rebuild a school for some nuns.. but first they wanted to beat me lol
radan: and of course there's the jewish nepotism you'll find anywhere
Ghaleon: lose the tan when dealing with them :/ if ya know what I mean
radan: but that isn't considered corruption here
Ghaleon: lol yeah...
radan: dr. popescu, my parents did take me here.
radan: and, all things considered, I'm glad they did
radan: but it's a miserable society.
LorenzoMoney: jewish nepotism and new orleans and hyrricanes? WHat a fucking idiot you are
radan: people always ask me about New Orleans
radan: I tell them it's a great city to live in
LordPutin: LorenzoMoney i'm scared
LorenzoMoney: no wonder your ancestors were stupid enough to give up their paganism for the idiocy of catholicism
radan: but I would never raise children here
ThickAsThieves: <radan> but it's a miserable society. /// how do you distinguish a miserable society, from a miserable world, from a miserable you?
radan: well, obviously one leads to the other
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radan: but I really don't think I would be unhappy in a traditional lifestyle
ThickAsThieves: yeah but you probly have the order wrong
Ghaleon: orleans was scary as hell during and after katrina... the racism there is so dense..
radan: I mean
radan: the world is fucked up
radan: but there are still happy people in Afghanistan and Thibet and Borneo
Ghaleon: felt with the army, sea, nuns and a bunch of dudes carrying heavy weapons shoed up usually.... pretty much bandits.. but i felt their pain
radan: and those weird as fuck little tribesmen in Africa
hdbuck: and mp ^^
Ghaleon: the native , aboriginal peoples are closest to God
radan: depression, mental ilness, and the concomitant host of modern evils
BingoBoingo: radan: Have you ever tried the Mardi Gras thing? I've found that SoCo Hurricaines make the misery go away.
radan: are not found where people have work to do, real work.
radan: "the Mardi Gras thing"
radan: you're outting yourself for a yankee
BingoBoingo: radan: MidWesterner
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.00360002 = 0.4968 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000023 = 0.35 BTC [-]
radan: everything north of the Mason Dixon line and west of Texas
BingoBoingo: Closest major city is St Louis
ThickAsThieves: alcohol is a mistress that way BingoBoingo, "The love I sell you in the evening, by the morning won't exist"
radan: might as well be Boston
ThickAsThieves: although that lyric is likely about cocaine
radan: I spent some time in Indiana
radan: the white people there act like africans here
BingoBoingo: radan: A good portion of the neighboring country here was functionally in the other part of the US in the 1860's
ThickAsThieves: a great song, if you can handle a dash of emo:
radan: going back to my point
radan: people are happy when they can work to feed themselves and their families
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: I actually rather enjoy the hangovers
radan: and ensure an existence for their children
radan: they are generally not happy in huge impersonal concrete cities
radan: doing "work" solely of the intellectual flavor
ThickAsThieves: my point more lies in that alcohol causes a creeping depression
radan: and having very few children
ThickAsThieves: mostly hard to detect
radan: as is, for some reason, the modern custom.
spam_mania: no alcohol causes a creeping depression.
ThickAsThieves: such that you begin to feel it's the world, when really it's your body
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ThickAsThieves: chased by the dragon, in a way
BingoBoingo: It thought chasing the dragon was about people racing horses in their veins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00093881 = 9.3881 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: radan nobody is arguing that the us isn't miserable. most of all not thinking people living there
ThickAsThieves: well chasing the dragon is chasing a high that cannot be physiologically achieved anymore
mircea_popescu: and i dunno who in their right mind would raise their children there, either.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to liven up the discussion a little,
ThickAsThieves: // they didnt include an address to send flowers, nor a funeral date
mircea_popescu: heh, gallipi really wants to be stupid huh.
mircea_popescu: i guess every man gets to make that choice for himself.
ThickAsThieves: i like the typography of the new bitpay logo, but the left angle on the box is not parallel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00093079 = 4.654 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: the "ay" snuggling is kinda pro
kakobrekla: if only highlevelminer had such logo
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what's a snuggling ?
radan: the a and the y follow a curve
mircea_popescu: oh i see
ThickAsThieves: it's just good lettering
ThickAsThieves: but they ruin it with that lefy angle
DudeSj: mircea_popescu,
ThickAsThieves: such things stick out like sore thumbs to me
mircea_popescu: "murder she wrote"
Namworld: [12:57] <radan> the world is fucked up
radan: ikr?
radan: it's horrible
radan: we need to fix it
Namworld: Well I can't say this year compared to the latest years. But on the longer term, the world is the least fucked up it's ever been, if by fucked up you mean things like torture, violence and such.
radan: of course I don't
radan: why would that be metric for "fucked up"
kakobrekla: horrible? terrible is what it is.
BingoBoingo: Eh, if the world was stable, there'd be no room for opportunity
mircea_popescu: the world is runcible
ThickAsThieves: abominable too!
chetty: the best way to 'fix' stuff is leave it be
ThickAsThieves: best way to fix all your problems is to die
ThickAsThieves: you first!
Namworld: Not that it doesn't need improving. There's no perfection that can be reached. There's always room to further improve.
Namworld: But the world ain't as bad as the medias portray it.
radan: it's much, much worse
ThickAsThieves: "The White House wants to know how worried you are about data privacy"
kakobrekla: blah blah blah heat death of the universe, who cares
radan: anyway
ozbot: Watch a message from Counselor to the President John Podesta. | The White House
radan: if things were at equilibrium
radan: leaving them be would be the greatest course of actionj
ThickAsThieves: Have a problem with NSA? Fill out this form. Have a nice day!
radan: but with a whole host of hostile actors pushing them in a certain direction
mircea_popescu: radan you're in school anyway. why's your focus the state of the world ?
radan: it is the duty of any right-thinking man to push them back
mircea_popescu: the world's a lot older than you are.
radan: this is a world I plan to live in
Namworld: Crime, corruption, violence, torture, selfish wars. They were far more frequent in the "good old time of yore".
radan: I'd like to know more about it before I pay it my pound of flesh
radan: and what I've learned so far isn't very encouraging
Namworld: World is literally paradise compared to what it used to be.
ThickAsThieves: "How much do these types of data collection concern you?"
chetty: if the direction is bad it will fix itself - not pleasantly but ...
ThickAsThieves: "How much do you trust these institutions with your data?"
ozbot: Twitter / RichardEngel: Alaska was part of #russia ...
radan: namworld, you define paradise like a soft fat man
kakobrekla: he can just chargeback through paypal
mircea_popescu: hahahaha
Namworld: Study history further before saying it isn't very encouraging. World has improved and it can still be improved.
Namworld: What do you mean by soft fat man?
Namworld: I'm neither fat nor soft. Although yes I am a male.
ThickAsThieves: "How much do you trust these institutions with your data?" "Stop."
ThickAsThieves: wrong quote
ThickAsThieves: How much do you trust these institutions with your data? Stop.
ThickAsThieves: they wont let me quote it
kakobrekla: just stop.
mircea_popescu: get a real os ?
ThickAsThieves: Is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your thoughts on this issue?
ThickAsThieves: thqat was it
ThickAsThieves: fukn joke
ThickAsThieves: what answers do they expect? Yes, I love people collecting data on me!
mircea_popescu: is this thing legit or mostly a seo-spamsite
asciilifeform: radan: do you know russian? because if yes, you'd enjoy limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium' (
Namworld: The life in nature is a very cruel one, radan. Humans can be just as cruel. But as time passes and our understanding of ourselves improves, we seem to be doing away with that.
ThickAsThieves: here's your answer Mircea: "SatochiDice "
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Appears to be a page scraper
radan: I love Russian
radan: I was talking to some russians a minute ago
Namworld: Sure there's regions where it's a hellhole right now. Those places change over the ages. Globally, overall, crime rate, wars, torture, hate, violence, etc are pretty low.
radan: you're so deluded, mate
radan: hate
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radan: terrorisms
radan: do you even believe in these things
kakobrekla: and graffiti
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is how the nsa works, by the way. we've just used BUMBLEBEE to identify the source of leaked documents.
radan: they're meaningless, unquantifiable buzzwords
ThickAsThieves: this is a good little tactic, insert retarded mistakes into articles
mircea_popescu: this is why my rss feed starts with the ip of the scraper
radan: and I guarantee you the modern liberal has much more hate in his heart than a christian 2000 years ago
mircea_popescu: so i can ban them
Namworld: That you hear about it a lot in the media doesn't mean that the world isn't better than before. Sure those things happen. I'm not questioning it.
radan: you're problem is that you define good as anything weak
radan: like softness
radan: and being a pacifistic, sexless pusys
ThickAsThieves: i was thinking, itd be nice to have the trilema model accessible to more of us
BingoBoingo: Soft tits are good though
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. (
ThickAsThieves: credit system
ThickAsThieves: IP blocking
ThickAsThieves: i dont wanna deal with runnning Wordpress
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it's trivial to implement neh ?
radan: whereas goodness to me is virtue
radan: and living like a man
ThickAsThieves: not trivial to maintain though
radan: and having a lot of children
Namworld: Did I ever define good as that? I don't recall using those words you portray me to have said.
radan: orwell wrote about people like you
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: It isn't as onerous as some make it seem
ThickAsThieves: WP exploits are like daily, no?
Namworld: I'm saying, if you're not happy about the current state of the world, will you just lay down or work to help it keep improving?
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Depends on the kind of exploit
radan: it's not improving
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i never had one. never updated since what, 2008
radan: that's the whole point
radan: it's becoming softer and worse
radan: worse in every conceivable way
Namworld: I've never said to be apathetic and not doing anything.
ThickAsThieves: i dont have "people" to set such up properly anymore
radan: you and I have very different conceptions of improvement
ThickAsThieves: my statement remains, it'd be nice
Namworld: It's been becoming worse since when, tell me?
radan: I think you think "activists" and little intellectual fuckers with low testosterone to be helping the world out somehow
chetty: radan: worse in every conceivable way // lack of imagination
radan: whereas they are the very ones destroying it
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mircea_popescu: if anyone cares to read romanian mobster blogs, i give you
Namworld: activists don't achieve much at all
Namworld: Not modern kind anyway.
radan: no, jews do.
radan: but you and I cannot become jews
radan: so
ThickAsThieves: I'm not sure I have the energy for this guy now the MPOE-PR broke him
ozbot: Decentralized Securities (Mastercoin, Colored Coins, etc.) - SEC regulation?
radan: we need a better alternative
Namworld: What is it with people seeing the world as becoming bad invoking jews?
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radan: that's what I'm trying to set up.
Namworld: What a silly idea.
chetty: jews accept converts
radan: my goal is to found a traditional society
radan: for people of my genetic stock
radan: and live out my life in it.
Namworld: That you're jew or not matters not. Not at all.
radan: that's what I envision as an alternative... others may disagree
radan: dr. popescu may have a better solution
mircea_popescu: radan sure you can become jewish, what are you talking about
radan: yes, I can. I can even become an orthodox jew
radan: because I'm maternally jewish
mircea_popescu: irrespective.
radan: but your average person won't.
radan: and really
radan: can't.
radan: and anyway
Namworld: What does it matter?
only: mircea_popescu: what the actual fuck, lol. why does he think he needs a blog?
radan: Judaism benefits the jews
Namworld: Tell me how being jewish changes anything?
mircea_popescu: only he's getting old, got bored.
radan: I don't want to invest in the genetic stock of another nation
radan: another people
mircea_popescu: been in ibiza for 10ish years now
radan: another race, even
ThickAsThieves: mobster blog doesnt load for me
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i dunno who would bother in that topic tbh
mircea_popescu: so some random nobody who scammed a bunch of investors wants to continue derping on bitcointalk as if.
mircea_popescu: not the first, not the last, what of it.
asciilifeform: i'll take the liberty of translating
asciilifeform: 'Испуганное проявлениями своего собственного каннибализма в первую и, более всего, во вторую мировые войны, «цивилизованное» человечество отшатнулось от hard к soft режимам. (Плюс сыграли роль еще два важнейших фактора: 1. сдержив
asciilifeform: ающее агрессивность влияние ядерных вооружений и 2. появление новых технологий производства, сделавших возможным закармливание масс.) Если сущность hard заключается в физическом подавлении человека, soft основано на поощрении е
asciilifeform: го слабостей. Идеал жесткого насилия — превратить мир в тюрьму строгого режима, идеал мягкого — превратить человека в домашнее животное.'
asciilifeform: 'Frightened of its own cannibalism during the First, and, moreover, the Second world wars. 'civilized' mankind dashed from the 'hard' to the 'soft' mode of violence. (The deciding factors: 1. the restraining influence of atomic weapons and 2. the advent of new technologies of production, which made possible an overfeeding of the masses.) If the essence of 'hard' violence consists in the physical suppression of
asciilifeform: man, 'soft' is based on the encouragement of his weaknesses. The ideal of 'hard' violence - to convert the world into a maximum security prison, of 'soft' - to convert man himself into a domestic animal.'
Namworld: There's one race and only one.
asciilifeform: (limonov's 'disciplinary sanitarium')
Namworld: (For humans)
radan: we are all one race
Namworld: You just said another race
radan: never mind the overrepresentation of cosmopolitans in any powerful body in the west
radan: never mind the genetic differences between us
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radan: never mind that your average african really cannot function in a modern society
radan: no
radan: we're all one people, blah blah blah, diversity
radan: ^ the modern manifesto
mircea_popescu: radan inasmuch as pretty much any girl can carry your babies, what's your argument to difference based on ?
radan: look at it this way
radan: the whole point of reproduction
radan: is ensuring the passing on of your genes
dignork: radan, anybody can become jewish, google ״giyur״
ozbot: 8 Reasons Why You're Pretty Much Batman - Dorkly Comic
radan: your average countrywoman will share more of them with you, even before the act, than a papuan or botswanan
radan: so by having kids with her
radan: you're passing on more of your genes to your offspring
radan: than the alternative
Namworld: Not at all...
mircea_popescu: i think this is at best a naive interpretation of genetics.
asciilifeform: 'Among all of the crimes, the most terrible (though not punishable) is the crime against one's own self -- the failure of an individual to use his own, only life. Listen to the idiotic musical noises, park the car, labour in the light but uninteresting work, and before you know it, your tenure upon this earth is over. The collective, so-called 'civilized mankind,' has excelled in the creation of (and imposition
asciilifeform: upon the furthest reaches of the planet) a life colourless, boring, stupid, devoid of any real joys. The life of domestic animals. Against a 'Big Brother', the old 'maximum security' wearing boots and a menacing uniform, it was possible to (as history shows, this takes place sooner or later) - rise up. But how about uprising against one's own weaknesses - is this possible?'
radan: it's the whole reason we help our brothers and parents even though we have no intention of fucking them.
radan: they share our genes
radan: it's the genetic background for altruism.
BingoBoingo: This representation of genetics seems to to in practice lead to the discovery of novel diseases preventable through hybridization
radan: hybrid vigour has been disproved a long time ago
mircea_popescu: radan it seems to me my brother has just about equal chances to die by my hand than to be helped by same.
mircea_popescu: and my father is probably even worse off.
Namworld: You have a strong misunderstanding of genetics and relationships... I care not for genes, familial loyalty has more to do with being raised with people who cared for you and which you're familiar with than genes.
radan: namworld
radan: you're a soft little pale fellow
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radan: your understanding of the world is skewed
benkay: wth is going on in here this morning?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves funny how your list of "i used to think but" keeps swelling
mircea_popescu: benkay putin launched a nuke
mircea_popescu: so now we've got stuff going on
Ghaleon: lol
radan: dr. popescu, have you heard of the bedouin
Ghaleon: we can only hope
mircea_popescu: actually i rode with the bedouin.
Namworld: You're a sad little piece of coal, brushing off darkness on everything, your understanding of the world is skewed. See, I can play that game too.
radan: that's amazing, I'm jealous
radan: anyway, they have a saying
mircea_popescu: Namworld the piece of coal conceit is actually quite good. yours or read somewhere ?
Namworld: Can I have arguments, not personal dismissal?
radan: "me against my brother, my brothers and me against my cousins, then my cousins and me against strangers"
mircea_popescu: radan it's not so hard to do you know, and neither expensive.
Namworld: I don't know, first black thing which popped in my mind.
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves funny how your list of "i used to think but" keeps swelling // via reading, experience, or boredom, I shall transcend!
ozbot: loading
benkay: whoa whoa whoa mircea_popescu are you trolling me?!
mircea_popescu: "You're a sad little piece of coal, brushing off darkness on everything," definitely. should be in a poem or soemthing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.60000006 = 3 BTC [-] {3}
radan: when you remove the distractions
dexX7: hehe i didn't know anotheranonlol is still around
radan: the whole point of our existence is to further our genes
Namworld: I'm sure piece of coal was used already somewhere by a thousand different people, and I might have read something similar. Pretty sure the sentence is original. That or brought out from a subconscious memory.
radan: so I'd rather help people out who are close to me, genetically
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07100101 = 0.355 BTC [+]
Namworld: Why?
ozbot: GavinTech: It ain't me I've got a PGP imposter
radan: like bulgarians, wallachians, and eastern serbs
radan: than people with no genetic link to me
radan: who are "as chaff unto the wheat"
Namworld: It actually reduces the chance of your genes going on.
Namworld: Difference is good, when it comes to genetics, typically.
radan: you have a high school understanding of genetics, friend.
radan: if it was so
dignork: radan, idea of keen was born way before discovery of genes, they just happened to snap right into your bizzare view of world, it's a pure coincidence
radan: then the optimal look for people would be a coffee-skinned melange
radan: with black
radan: eyes
radan: black hair
radan: there would be no diversity in the world.
Namworld: You want to reproduce with people with as different genetics as possible, and as big a variety as possible.
radan: if mixing was genetically good
radan: then species would never seperate
mircea_popescu: you understand that even if the entire population only reproduced on strict mixing guidelines there'd still be a bunch of blondes etc.
mircea_popescu: heck, a black couple recently had a blonde kid wieth blue eyes
radan: there would be no reason to adapt to different conditions
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.05899899 = 0.472 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.06200012 = 0.496 BTC [-] {2}
radan: because the hybrid state would have a higher chance of survival
Namworld: Mixing your genes with more of the same, less risk of improvements. Many offspring with different genetic partners, more chance of having a good combination.
asciilifeform: last one
asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is a rebuke,
radan: yet we live in a world with millions of species
asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permissible pecadillos, and is pl
asciilifeform: eased with their mediocrity. 'But this fellow from the desert!' (Interestingly, that among the hundreds of tyrants, in uniform and without, depending on the united states or the european sanitaria, none provoke a fraction of the wrath caused by Kaddafi. Evidently, the cause is his independence.) Kaddafi - is an extraordinary living proof of the fact that the fairy-tale version of life remains possible today. Bu
asciilifeform: t only outside of the sanitaria.'
radan: somehow they speciated
asciilifeform: ^ the limonov is for radan. everyone else, feel free to ignore
Namworld: Species separate because they are physically separated and cannot travel easily/evolve in a different environment.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 8 @ 0.11950724 = 0.9561 BTC [-]
benkay: i want a pickup full of hotties with m16s.
benkay: when i am bitlord of cascadia...
Namworld: So they don't come in contact with each other. That's when the get speciated....
radan: that's allopatric speciation
radan: you don't even know about parapatric or sympatric speciation
radan: either you're still in high school
radan: or you've never taken a biology class
radan: or a statistics class, for that matter.
ThickAsThieves: or he forgot, geez
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0585 = 0.117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.062 = 0.124 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: lol matonis heard of trilema.
radan: maybe
radan: I tend to remember what I read
mircea_popescu: news travels fast, unless you're in the bitcoin peanut gallery.
Namworld: Even then, it's still because they're separated. People don't know it's ideal typically, and don't usually care about it. If they can't be assed to get to the next neighborhood to have sex and still speciation occurs, what can you do about it?
benkay: subject of bitlord of cascadia, the campaign has begun and is doing quite well, ty for asking. simply by showing up to the 'meetups', calling out scams and repeatedly hammering on points such as 'btc ≠ consumer tech' has rendered unto me many lunches and dinners paid for by cautious and quiet folk of wealth and power.
BingoBoingo: Reasons why breeding outside the group is useful
Namworld: More offsprings with more diverse genes is still better statistically. Never said people actually strived for it. They tend to prefer personally enjoyement over ensuring their genes survive.
radan: Jews have been marrying their first cousins for millenia
Namworld: Thus will mate with however they prefer, not based on genes.
radan: that's irresponsible and leads to bad effects.
benkay: some groups of jews
benkay: there are several, radan.
benkay: it's how they maintain fitness across the whole smorgasbord.
radan: third cousins, on the other hand, improve the genetic stock
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I imagine the BTC peanut gallery has the inverse problem of the one I supposed the media had in the morning's post
radan: "The researchers suggest marrying third and fourth cousins is so optimal for reproduction because they sort of have the "best of both worlds." While first-cousin couples could have inbreeding problems, couples who are far-removed from each other could have genetic incompatibilities."
ThickAsThieves: he just skips over the "bad" parts I guess
Namworld: If you're having a single partner, then yes, maybe that's the best course of action. But then again, what does it matter?
radan: it matters because reproduction is the whole point of our existence
radan: everything else is fluff
BingoBoingo: I wonder is ReutersEmily is filling out a requisition for a few bitcents to get Trilema credits
Namworld: You plan to live your life exclusively around optimal gene dissemination?
ThickAsThieves: wtf is this conversation?
Namworld: You'd better travel the world and rape every women along the way like Genghis Khan.
ThickAsThieves: a science class pissing contest?
dignork: radan, your personal point of existence is reproduction? Your life is boring I tell ya.
radan: not just reproduction
radan: honey bees survive despite 75% of them having no children
mircea_popescu: <radan> that's irresponsible and leads to bad effects. << dfude srsly. if i want a green eyed mulatto for breakfast, i'm porking a green eyed mulatto for breakfast. what "bad effects"
radan: because the beelets they do raise are genetically close to them
radan: so I'm the process of founding a society
radan: for people of danubian stock
mircea_popescu: there's such a thing as "danubian stock" ?!
Namworld: I have no clue. Radan is unhappy about the world and keeps mentioning jews and about mating and promoting his gene pool.
Namworld: I think I know where this is headed.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.59070675 = 17.7212 BTC [-] {7}
radan: yes sir
mircea_popescu: seems a tenuous theory.
radan: Romanians and Bulgarians both have 70%+ old thracian genes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.59 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: so radan is here to puke his top-of-mind reading requirements all over us
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of difference between say transylvania and the south even in romania.
radan: culturally, yes
radan: genetically, you're very similar
Namworld: So what, you purport to promote your own genes, you should promote people close genetically and crush the rest?
mircea_popescu: that aside, amusingly enough, the romanian natl poet seems to have hated bulgarians (and greeks)
radan: I have a friend from maramures and we look fucking identical
Mats_cd03: im going to pour chlorine in your gene pool
mircea_popescu: for very similar reasons
Mats_cd03: this conversation sucks
mircea_popescu: "Voi sunteţi urmaşii Romei? Nişte răi şi nişte fameni!
mircea_popescu: I-e ruşine omenirii să vă zică vouă oameni!
mircea_popescu: Şi această ciumă-n lume şi aceste creaturi
mircea_popescu: Nici ruşine n-au să ieie în smintitele lor guri
mircea_popescu: Gloria neamului nostru spre-a o face de ocară,
mircea_popescu: Îndrăznesc ca să rostească pân' şi numele tău... ţară!"
mircea_popescu: roughly translated as you r bad ppls!
mircea_popescu: (also humanity is ashamed to call you pepole)
Mats_cd03: 'science'
radan: it's funny
radan: I can read that
mircea_popescu: also plague and so on.
radan: sorta like latin and bulgarian mixed
radan: slavim te, romanie
Mats_cd03: longitudinal study beats all the stupid links that have been appearing as evidence in this channel
BingoBoingo: Speaking of ancient web games everyone forgot about
mircea_popescu: haha latin and bulgarian mixed, that's an idea.
mircea_popescu: actually... few people know but at some point bulgaria was the major kingdom in se europe
Namworld: Or you know, there's ~99.9% of genes in commons between any human and the next. Maybe if you want to promote your genes and people close genetically, you should consider all humans the same and work on ensuring humans can colonize space. That would help your genes' survival. Most of them.
mircea_popescu: kinda propped up byzantium for a while.
radan: humans will never work together
radan: as a whole
Namworld: Go do some research work for that.
Mats_cd03: its amusing that people talk about genes as though its a single cohesive entity
radan: there's a reason all attempts at it have failed
mircea_popescu: he's right. humans will only work together as a whore.
Mats_cd03: instead of, you know, dna expression being manipulable by 7-9 different factors
radan: I know all about epigenetics
mircea_popescu: well maybe not all ?
Mats_cd03: wheres that ms immunology dude that can explain this better than me
radan: it's what's behind the recent outbreaks of autism in the west
Mats_cd03: lol outbreaks
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 bugpowder ?
radan: it's not a disease our ancestors ever had to deal with
Mats_cd03: you right
mircea_popescu: radan neither is cancer.
radan: cancer has also been exacerbated by modern life
Mats_cd03: there is so much more than epigenetics in play
radan: but not to the extent of autism
Namworld: It doesn't matter if the whole of humanity doesn't work together. Humanity isn't a damn ant colony. Why would it work together as a whole?
radan: namworld
radan: what's your goal
radan: in life
Namworld: It's not like you need the whole of it to participate to go to space.
radan: what standards do you use to judge things
radan: I have a feeling they're very short sighted ones
radan: I also think you really don't have a direction in life, but maybe you'll prove me wrong
Namworld: To live. As long as possible. Surefire way of ensuring your genes' survival.
radan: oh lord
radan: you're a yudkowskyite
Namworld: I don't know who that is.
radan: it's always very young people and the insecure who want immortality
rithm: that's what i want
rithm: immorality
Namworld: I don't mind dying if that's what you're implying, or feel threatened by death in any serious way.
radan: real men
radan: even real people
radan: don't want to live forever
radan: soft fellows with low testosterone, on the other hand...
radan: well
radan: I'll leave the obvious unsaid
Namworld: You see, nothing is eternal. I've never said I'd want to exist forever.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00085071 = 0.1701 BTC [-] {4}
aclot: radan: always the young people and the insecure who talk about meaning of life :)
radan: my hypothesis is thi
radan: the reason insecure people want to live forever
radan: is that they're scared of death
radan: in nature, fear is the domain of women
Namworld: I've said as long as possible. Immortality is not a possibility. Even if you extended your life, the universe won't last forever. Killing yourself is always an option too.
radan: because they are physically weaker they need protection
radan: as such
Namworld: If you offered me immortality, I'd be scared of it. Scared of being left alone in darkness for eternity as the Universe dies.
radan: rushing head-on into situations is imprudent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21250 @ 0.00093281 = 19.8222 BTC [+]
radan: when men are exposed to low fetal testosterone
radan: they end up very feminine
radan: with man boobs and soft skin and very little facial hair
radan: and as part of that complex
radan: they acquire a woman's timidity
radan: this is why they're scared and fearful of everything
radan: case in point
radan: "If you offered me immortality, I'd be scared of it."
radan: you're scared of death and scared of immortality
Namworld: I am not scared of death. I am of immortality however.
radan: you're literally scared of everything
radan: that is unacceptable outside of 12 year old girls
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 75 @ 0.0701 = 5.2575 BTC [-]
aclot: why?
radan: no one respects a pussy
mircea_popescu: 12 yo girls aren't particularly cowardly.
mircea_popescu: and are you kidding man ?! the entire us worships 12 pussy atm.
aclot: i respect good pussy
Namworld: That, and what does it matter what people think?
radan: a pussy and pussy are different things
radan: the other
radan: well
radan: one is cowardly and repugnant
radan: it's pussy
kakobrekla: pizda is a chemical
radan: *nom nom nom*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07010001 = 0.3505 BTC [+] {2}
radan: of course it matters what people think
aclot: fear != cowardice
radan: you might spend the majority of your time on the computer
mircea_popescu: tbh 12yo girls are on average a lot braver than 12 yo boys
radan: but the whole world is outside of it
Namworld: Nothing has a purpose. So I'll extend my life given the possibility until I grow tired of life and any purposes I would give myself along the way.
aclot: and hawter
radan: with 7 billion people you have to interact with
radan: if you're a pussy who's scared of everything
radan: you won't be able to do that
radan: and consequently, will die alone, miserable, and unloved
Namworld: What people think matters? For the coward, maybe.
aclot: if you're afraid of nothing, you're dead in 15 secs:\
radan: anyway dr. popescu
radan: that is my philosophy
radan: I think I've talked enough about it
radan: hopefully we understand each other better now.
BingoBoingo: radan: You've not gotten to your metaphysics though.
Namworld: If you're angry, grumpy and glooming individual, you'll probably end up dying alone, miserable and unloved.
Namworld: That applies to both extremes.
BingoBoingo: radan: I am interested in your perspective on the relationship between form and extension
radan: hmm
aclot: BingoBoingo: that's pataphysics...
radan: sounds like nietzhe
radan: nietzchzche
mircea_popescu: so i was looking for econ 302. is this philosophy 101 ?
radan: neechy
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Mebee
mircea_popescu: any hawt chicks ?
BingoBoingo: radan: Actually I was thinking Spinoza
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's mid semester, they won't be back for a few more weeks
mircea_popescu: btw, whoever recommended black mirror, cazalla was it ?
rithm: .bait
mircea_popescu: i've seen something about a black guy living in a sort of america has talent futuropia
mircea_popescu: not bad.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did you drop a l ? black or back ?
radan: dr. popescu
Namworld: You seem to view everything with always a lot of assumptions made on the spot, or already established in your mind.
radan: is it true you're a billionaire
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
radan: I like that answer
mircea_popescu: well it's bitcoin, who ever knows.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It was an intended back.
radan: I have 1.75 btc
radan: once bitcoin reaches 10000000 million dollars each
radan: I'll be a trillionaire
radan: I think it should happen by sometime next friday
mircea_popescu: then you can buy snake island and start your own, ukrainian-free utopia
Namworld: This will probably not serve you well in life, radan.
radan: snake island is very small
mircea_popescu: only buchar\est whores and honest hard working cabbage farmers from russe.
radan: I already scoped it out on google earth
radan: besides
radan: the seas are vulnerable
mircea_popescu: well how big does it have to be.
benkay: asl mircea_popescu
radan: as big as eurasia, as small as an acre.
mircea_popescu: 19/f/cali whai ?
radan: depends on how many people I can recruit
radan: right now I'm looking at a few places
benkay: wanna cyber hottie?
benkay: .bait
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15502 @ 0.00093305 = 14.4641 BTC [+] {3}
deadweasel: jesus christ, i haven't seen 'wanna cyber' in 20 years.
Namworld: About 12700 kilometers large and spherical would be ideal, mircea
mircea_popescu: benkay that looks very irresponsible and wrong benkay
mircea_popescu: she's turkic stock. at best.
radan: the pontic and siberian steppe, the balkan mountains, and the north caucasus, mainly
benkay: nineteen's even culturally acceptable in my jurisdiction
radan: though one of the guys in our project really wants afghanistan
mircea_popescu: radan putin ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13598 @ 0.00093131 = 12.664 BTC [-]
radan: what's he going to care
benkay: .bait
benkay: .bait
mircea_popescu: no i mean, what guy on your project, putin ?
radan: no
radan: he's from satu mare
benkay: deadweasel: that'd be the joke
ughlol: holy macaroni
ughlol: these girls are HOT!
benkay: .bait
benkay: oh yeah
Namworld: Well, I expect you to collect a lot of hate along the way and probably fail, radan, but I can always appreciate that someone fights for his ideals.
mircea_popescu: deadweasel i say it occasionally, works to distinguish adult womenz from the igirl generation.
benkay: more slips and stockings for all the babes.
benkay: and heels. always heels.
mircea_popescu: slips ?! gtfo. garter belt is all one needs.
radan: we're not going to be doing farming, either
ughlol does /msg ozbot .bait over and over again
mircea_popescu: ughlol don't overuse it, it's really here for the sec.
ughlol: oh
ughlol: sorry mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: ughlol: Also you don't want to see what happens when it runs out of good bait
ll: lol that looks like it was taken in the uffizi
ughlol: haha
benkay: i like having something to strip them out of, mircea_popescu.
ozbot: WAKHAN - Art Film - Trailer on Vimeo
radan: this is the kind of lifestyle we're going for
BCB: any news on the SEC drama
benkay: 2 weeks, BCB.
BingoBoingo: BCB: Just ore news is interested in the old news
ThickAsThieves: some conversation with the writer
ninjashogun: what happens if a wire transfer is received in the wrong denomination? does the bank just convert it at whatever rate they feel like?
ninjashogun: (for example if someone tries to wire pounds internationally to a usd account or vice versa)
BCB: any journalists turning up in here
benkay: BCB: several.
benkay: Reuters, most recently.
BCB: benkay: 2 weeks for what
ll: ninjashogun: from my experience, yes
benkay: everything in bitcoin, BCB :)
Namworld: oh, if that's the kind of thing you're shooting for, go for it. Looks nice.
ninjashogun: ll how terrible are those rates? like 2-3 percent of the normal spread or worse?
BCB: benkay: I wait for 6 confirmations
ll: i forget
ughlol: hey ninjashogun! o/
ll: best to call your bank
BCB: BingoBoingo: yes they are all now starting to print the same story over and over again
Namworld: Fortunately, humanity hasn't blanket claimed desertic places like that yet.
BingoBoingo: BCB: There are variations, so far the best mass media writeup I've seen came out of Gawker of all places
BCB: MP is famous now
Namworld: It can be hard to live a traditional lifestyle if the land required to do so is all claimed already and people won't let you.
nubbins`: now, where were we
BCB: Anyone here involved in Etherium
Namworld: The sad aspect about such a large population of humans, diminishing amount of land available.
ninjashogun: humans outweigh half of humans by 2:1. Let that sink in.
ThickAsThieves: if any one here were involved in Ethereum, they wouldn't be involved in Ethereum
Namworld: Redundancy has sunk in. I am now afflicted like a disease by the redundancy sickness that is infection-like.
benkay: ;;google drinking record most important
gribble: History of alcoholic beverages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Bob Hawke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; History of Alcohol and Drinking around the World: <>
benkay: ;;google drinking record counterparty
gribble: A Reminder – The Most Important Word in Bitcoin, Again because Gox: <>; Why Fractional Reserve Can't Work in Bitcoin | Bingo Blog: <>; February | 2014 | Bingo Blog: (1 more message)
benkay: no mircea_popescu google still sucks
Namworld: I can now speak of the same thing as if they were the same thing in multiple ways of saying that this same thing is the same thing.
Namworld: Thank you, ninjashogun.
ninjashogun: on later guys see you
Namworld: Later.
Namworld: I think I'll do the same.
Namworld: Goodbye everyone.
benkay: what is that, steven-__?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves> if any one here were involved in Ethereum, they wouldn't be involved in Ethereum << that.
mircea_popescu: lmao Namworld
steven-__: some talking head talking about how mh370 and black hole talks about lost and twilight zone
mircea_popescu: steven-__ lmao. black hole, srsly ?!
mircea_popescu: are these people... braindead ?
steven-__: money talks
ughlol: most probably
steven-__: ratings are out of contorl
mircea_popescu: if a blackhole pops up anywhere in the atmosphere we'd likely hear about it.
mircea_popescu: and i literally mean HEAR. outdoors.
ughlol: lol ^
radan: Did Bitcoin Crash MH370? This Article Will Shock And Amaze You
mircea_popescu: so cnn aspires to be ?
radan: regardsl gawker
steven-__: thats not until next week radan
steven-__: cnn aspires to be fox news
Namworld: We'd hear the outdoors moving... as a whole. but only very briefly.
Namworld: It could also happen almost at any time.
Namworld: You just have to live with it.
radan: the kazakh steppe is empty
radan: everyone in russia and the white part of the world in general is running to cities
radan: the countryside is completely empty in a lot of the world
ozbot: | Russian farmland selling for as low as 2% of EU values
ThickAsThieves: CNN aspires. That's really the whole of it.
Namworld: But not everywhere is suitable to certain traditional lifestyles.
radan: voronezh chernozem going for $250 a hectare!
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so does a black hole.
radan: what the fuck is the world coming to
radan: a man can feed himself comfortably on 4 acres
ozbot: Twitter / bobmcmillan: @BBoingo Hey man, I had that ...
radan: can feed a family on 20 acres
Namworld: radan, that's just demand and offer.
mircea_popescu: << i had a dumb kid, and i decline any responsibility.
ozbot: Alleged Silk Road Founder's Mother Speaks Out - YouTube
radan: you can buy buy enough land to support your descendants in perpetuam for 2000 bucks
radan: absolutely ridiculous
asciilifeform: charming eastern tradition of obligatory seppuku should be adopted in the west.
asciilifeform: (re: silk road kid)
radan: if I was going for agriculture instead of herding
Namworld: So, what's your view on the topic, Mircea? Can a parent decline responsibility for what their kids are?
radan: I would park my ass so quick on voronezh chernozem
Duffer1: wouldn't work without also a culture of shame
radan: whoever lifted me from it would be crowned king arthur
nubbins`: asciilifeform, you're always pasting bits of interesting text. got a reading list anywhere on your blog?
asciilifeform: radan: can you even put together a decent minefield for 2000? much less a real defense
ozbot: Twitter / Bitcoin_Assets: @bobmcmillan @BBoingo Why?
mircea_popescu: Namworld sure, why not ?
mircea_popescu: better have a good reason or two ready tho
asciilifeform: nubbins`: the pasted text was from eduard limonov's book, 'disciplinary sanitarium'
mircea_popescu: seeing how anyone can decline their decline
Namworld: Yes, exactly.
ThickAsThieves: probly shoulda linked to trilema private convesation article...
radan: the janissaries parents were often times killed by the janissaries themself
asciilifeform: nubbins`: very quick & dirty on-the-spot translation. afaik there is no english version, official or otherwise
radan: ienicerii
nubbins`: ah, shame
asciilifeform: radan: there is a serbian song about exactly this!
nubbins`: anyway, you're always posting interesting snippets. would love to examine your bookshelf
Namworld: The reason or two being: 1. Having done everything without success 2. Not having been the legal guardian and involved at all
BingoBoingo: So @bobmcmillan seems to be under the impression we had a long DM conversation. Is he confusing me with mircea_popescu
Namworld: Other than genetic involvement.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ask him neh ?
ThickAsThieves: he's confusing his private conversation with being as topical as Emily's public one
asciilifeform: nubbins`: a good chunk of my bookshelf, as your probably also, is in ascii.
mircea_popescu: there's oil in that bookshale!
asciilifeform: nubbins`: another reason to learn russian. you can read virtually any book ever printed, originally in virtually any language, for free, searchable.
nubbins`: a good chunk of mine is actually in .epub format, but through the wondrous Calibre, conversion is but a click away
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> nubbins`: another reason to learn russian. you can read virtually any book ever printed, originally in virtually any language, for free, searchable. <<< this.
mircea_popescu: romanian has a similar, but proprotionalyl reduced advantage.
mircea_popescu: as romanians don't really translate eastern stuff and happily ignore us stuff
radan: русский язьiк очень приятной
radan: думаю я
mircea_popescu: язык :p
asciilifeform: 'я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин.'
dignork: that's mine! well, Mayakovskovki's...
mircea_popescu: how was that quote, i speak french to my horse, german to my wife and russian to the chickens ?
radan: lermontov is the best author
radan: east of the vistula
Namworld: Well bob just answered you, BingoBoingo
dignork: Маяковский
asciilifeform: radan: bulgarian? perhaps you can tell me how come every statue in bulgaria has a beautifully depressing song that comes with it.
mircea_popescu: ok not a bad question.
BingoBoingo: Namworld: This new twitter conversation organizer breaks too much for clarity
radan: lol
radan: you're probably asking about that
radan: andryusha
radan: statue or wtv
asciilifeform: radan: 'alyosha.' 'lilia.' etc
radan: we're a soulful people ^^
mircea_popescu: "we used to be great but everyone raped us, for the past millenium. even the romanians"
Namworld: Every people is soulful
radan: I don't think the vlachs had any influence on modern bulgaria
radan: beyond the genetic
radan: the slavic influence on romanian is much greater than the reverse
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 59 @ 0.0052101 = 0.3074 BTC [+] {2}
radan: but that's language.
radan: which is a cultural construct and thus irrelevant
asciilifeform: sov. music about dead ww2 folks tends to be cheerful
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's because the composers were drunk.
asciilifeform: bulgaria... total 'депресняк'
radan: I prefer to focus on our ancient brotherhood than any arbitrary divisions imposed by the western world
radan: there was once a time when herders crossed from the carpathians to the balkans at will
radan: and farmers on both sides of the brother saw themselves as the same people
radan: were it not for the turks
radan: it might yet be so
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00624389 = 0.6244 BTC [+] {13}
radan: *border
mircea_popescu: there definitely was. see miorita etc
nubbins`: well, i have to say i'm questioning the wisdom of a recipe that calls for 1/4 cup of soy sauce AND a tablespoon of salt
mircea_popescu: btw, got a link to the bulgarian version ?
nubbins`: so it should be interesting to see how these moose steaks turn out.
asciilifeform: virtually all of the bulgars i've ever met looked exactly like every turk i ever met...
mircea_popescu: but a good one, preferably an 1800 notation.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's talking of an idealised pre-turkish time obv.
asciilifeform: aha, a la greece, ok
mircea_popescu: otherwise "bulgaroi cu ceafa groasa" etc.
radan: there hasn't been any turkish genetic impact on bulgaria
mircea_popescu: ah come on.
asciilifeform: i, too, would like to visit the parallel universe where the ottomans didn't happen.
mircea_popescu: i would like to visit the paralel universe where the arab invasion of egypt didn't happen, and the original tall lanky egyptians still roamed free
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899 = 0.118 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes! i wanted this as a kid even.
radan: whenever a turk married a bulgarian (or greek, or romanian, or serb etc.)
radan: the kid was considered turkish
radan: that's one of the reasons turkey has 70 million people
radan: and bulgaria, 7 million
nubbins`: twurkey
Radi777: just looked on this channel and you guys made me laugh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.058999 = 0.295 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Radi777 we live to serve.
nubbins`: ah, i see the bet is slowly growing larger
Radi777: this guy saying every bulgarian he met looks turkish lol either have seen only gypsies or turkish bulgarians, no real turkish looks like a real bulgarian..big difference
radan: there are dark bulgarians, for sure
radan: they're usually haplogroup E and from the macedonian part of BG
asciilifeform: radan: do you still have the underground churches over there?
Radi777: but its ok for me blacks look the same, and assians....LOL
asciilifeform: the ones that were required to be 'no taller than a mounted horseman'
radan: I personally don't consider macedonians to be my people
radan: anything south of the balkans is basically greece
mircea_popescu: Radi777 turkish secret service guy in istanbul volunteered that i'm definitely not turkish, he bets i'm bulgarian.
mircea_popescu: so while the difference exists and they themselves can tell it, it may be the case that for the rest of the world a pigeon is a pigeon.
radan: dr. popescu, is your family from wallachia?
mircea_popescu: nah. i'm from transylvania
Radi777: yea cross-race effect that's why i said the joke about blacks and asians lol
radan: ardealul, eh?
radan: not bad
mircea_popescu: well how could it be bad lol
radan: have you heard stefan hrusca
radan: "tu ardeal, tu ardealm, iti suntem osteni, templu sfant, templu sfant, muntii Apuseni."
mircea_popescu: yes yes, well, that's a little like feelings.
mircea_popescu: if you understand romanian you'll prolly better appreciate actual stuff like
rithm: no one understands that gibberish quit joking around
radan: lol
radan: I'll take a listen
asciilifeform: anyone fansub?
rithm: what are saying deprecated ocopus-noodle language
BingoBoingo: I prolly ought to throw this link up as a courtesy for journos and SEC
radan: umm
radan: kinda funny, I guess
radan: where do you find this stuff
rithm: good read BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: teh girls find it for me.
BingoBoingo: rithm: thestringpuller collected it
radan: I like romanian music tho
mircea_popescu: lol pretty epic github
rithm: My personal fave: Because these idiots won’t fucking die already, everyone else has to be inconvenienced. I deeply regret this. If it were practical I’d just kill them all with my own hand. Unfortunately, it is not practical, and so with my deepest and most sincere apologies to sane people everywhere I have to modify the MPEx FAQ.
radan: it's what bulgarian music would sound like if it wasn't for the turks, I think
mircea_popescu: radan well, let's see then... hmm... prolly bug mafia for oyu.
ozbot: B.U.G. Mafia - N-ai Fost Acolo - YouTube
Namworld: For one who said there is no purpose, you sure are quite obsessed with race. For one who said how being manly and fearless and getting girls is important, you sure seem afraid and lost as to how to act in a modern society to get it. For one who said modern culture is dust, you sure seem eager to go away and adopt an old one almost not practicioned anymore. There's nothing wrong with
Namworld: feeling like you don't belong and choosing to live the lifestyle you want, but your arguments about what's wrong with the world are off. The world isn't wrong, it is simply wrong for you.
Namworld: You can't shape yourself to fit in where you don't belong. Or at least shouldn't.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: blew my mind how much of it i was able to digest
mircea_popescu: Namworld is getting trolled into booklet length responses by now i see.
radan: your "for X you sure are X" statements don't even make sense
radan: moving on
asciilifeform: it/sp/ro, etc. 'singable' languages are very amenable to the soviet linguist (hard head, wall, dictionary) treatment
radan: have you heard vali sterian, dr. popescu?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is true.
mircea_popescu: of course romanian has, much like russian, a very rich subtextrual register
asciilifeform: i can tell, yes
radan: lol
radan: this rap's nice
mircea_popescu: greatly helped along by the fact that every other noun means either cunt, whore or fucking
Namworld: My point is that you're contradicting yourself. You're saying the world is wrong, not you, because they don't fit your ideal. While there is technically no one that is right or wrong.
radan: didn't know Romania had a hip hop scene
mircea_popescu: next you're going toi tell me you didn't know romania had a warez scene and we can all go to bed.
Namworld: It's more of a question of individuality and who you are, which is not falling close to the average.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07489527 = 0.1498 BTC [-] {2}
radan: thanks for the analysis, freud
radan: "unde sunt doi romani, este romania"
Namworld: You say that there is no purpose other than spreading genes, yet you're obsessed with promoting an arbitrarily sized sample of people with similar genes. You could scale up or down with a more specific or more generic group and call it promoting close genes all the same.
radan: that's actually true
radan: and I'm impressed that you thought it out enough to reach that conclusion
radan: but I've thought about it a lot longer than you have
radan: let's say you help out someone who'se close to you
rithm: i like sex
radan: and they don't have any kids
radan: then the investment is ruined
asciilifeform: radan: variation on the theme of Po's 'Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła'
radan: all nationalism is a variation on itself
radan: that doesn't stop it from being beautiful
radan: at times
mircea_popescu: radan so oscar wilde had no kids.
mircea_popescu: actually he was a nigger faggot jew afair.
radan: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00092986 = 8.7872 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00328258 = 9.8477 BTC [-] {23}
Namworld: You said it was important to be manly and fearless to get girls, yet seemed confused as how to date in modern society. Your personality doesn't fit the modern culture. You say the culture is bad. Perhaps that is true, but you've given no justifications to it. Just that it doesn't fit you.
radan: I'm not sure where you get that I'm confused about daring from
radan: I've had girlfriends since middle school
Namworld: I seem to recall... hmm, let me check
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1578 @ 0.00320092 = 5.0511 BTC [-] {8}
radan: I'm not saying american girls are worthless or anything
radan: I'm never gonna marry one though
Namworld: I didn't say otherwise, just unsure about the best way to go about it and not liking how it's done.
mircea_popescu: saving yourself for that special guy ?
Namworld: Re, entering a relationship.
radan: of course ^^
radan: in actuality, even if I get a girl pregnant here
radan: the leaders of this country have implemented a massive social security system
radan: so really
radan: there's no need to raise a kid as a father per se in obama's america
mircea_popescu: well... but it's still your girl lol.
Namworld: Which is my whole point. It's all personality related. There's not really any right or wrong, re the way of living you choose.
radan: no, there is no objective right or wrong
radan: that's not going to stop me from doing what I think is best
radan: namely
Namworld: Yes, exactly.
radan: trying to save my people's genetic livelihood
radan: and when I see westerners acting like faggots or women
radan: I'll call them out on it
radan: it's a free world.
radan: if they want to stop me from hurting people's feelings
radan: or whatever the current casus belli is
Namworld: Yes, pretty much, live and let live. Not shape yourself to fit where you don't belong. Voice your opinion.
radan: they can kill me, until then I'm a free man.
radan: I don't get your point Namworld
radan: I'm already doing that
Namworld: I'm calling you out on calling the world is going bad or people are wrong-headed when it is doing so only by your standards, which are arbitrary.
radan: they're not arbitrary
radan: they're subjective
radan: there's a difference
Namworld: You understood that I meant you've set those standards' limits where you pleased.
Namworld: Which yes, is based on your subjective point of view.
Namworld: So not really arbitrary as in a random absolute rule set out without any reason.
radan: from my moral outlook
radan: which is the same as that of my ancestors thousands of years back
radan: modern society is feminized and shit
radan: from your moral outlook
radan: we're proceeding infinitely leftward on an uninterrupted train to Toleranceville.
radan: an objective observer can decide for himself which of these opinions is the more realistic one
asciilifeform: radan: wait till you find out what passes for organized resistance to this crap in the usa
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.01687349 = 0.1687 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: radan: me, i'm a believer in 'salvation of the drowning is work for the hands of the drowning' - but if you want organized - straight to limonov et al.
radan: read some spengler
radan: and evola, if you want to get into the metaphysics of it
radan: they're great
asciilifeform: i sort of assume everyone here has read both
asciilifeform: or at least, a good selection of each
asciilifeform: but i tend to assume thing that turn out to be mistake
Namworld: No, from my point of view we're progressing toward less famine, poverty and sickness through technology, and better understanding of our nature as an animal. Which in turn decreases violence, torture, wars and hate, as a side effect.
asciilifeform: trololol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07489628 = 0.2247 BTC [+]
Namworld: I don't think we can eliminate those things, short of simply eradicating ourselves.
Namworld: You seem to find this funny?
asciilifeform: the funny part is the supposed progress
asciilifeform: but nm.
Namworld: It depends what you consider progress.
mircea_popescu: i don't get what the trouble with tolerance is in the first place.
radan: it's a fantasy
mircea_popescu: some of the best houses for the history of western thought were tolerance houses.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think he was speaking of 'tolerasty'
mircea_popescu: a well. then he should say that :p
asciilifeform: толерастия
Namworld: Some would say loss of culture and traditional way of living is not progress. Me, I don't feel fondly attached to any culture particularly.
mircea_popescu: teh iconic tolerasty cartoon
asciilifeform: терпила == literal trans. of 'patient'
asciilifeform: in my ad hoc lexicun, 'chumpatronium'
Namworld: Anything that reduce the motive behind wars, hate and violence is progress. Most technological progress have done just that so far.
asciilifeform: *lexicon
radan: "I don't feel fondly attached to any culture particularly."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012986 = 0.6493 BTC [-] {9}
mircea_popescu: torpila, in romanian, torpedo. funny how that works.
radan: of course you don't
radan: yet you would feel deeply uncomfortable outside of the west
mircea_popescu: "that's because you're a rootless cosmpolitan!"
mircea_popescu: amirite ?
radan: is he?
mircea_popescu: well isn't that the criteria ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in rus., the useless winglet sometimes found on a car is often called torpedo. same in ro ?
radan: I think he's a bit more perceptive than your average happy merchant
radan: a merchant would've called me an anti-semite by now
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the bug mafia band quoted earlier discusses, in a song about cars, "sau vre-o torpila dunarita, la volan o fata, mai tata"
mircea_popescu: in this context torpila means ancient but workable car
mircea_popescu: such as a volga
Namworld: radan, are you sure about that? What is it with all those assumptions?
mircea_popescu:‎ < in there
radan: I went to a jewish high school
radan: my roomate is a jew
radan: I know how they think
Namworld: Knowing a jew does not make you know how they all think.
mircea_popescu: i once was with a girl so i know how THEY think!
radan: I'd imagine you do
radan: it's not exactly hard to figure out
Namworld: You talk as if jews where a single entity. One person with one mind.
mircea_popescu: i also had a computer so i know how those think too
radan: when you spend 7 hours a day for four years with representatives of a certain group
radan: you get to know the similarities
radan: and the individual vagaries
mircea_popescu: elected or otherwise ?
radan: of their thought
radan: OH MY GOD
mircea_popescu: Namworld what of bitcoin jesus then ?
radan: - so done -
radan: regardsm, tumblr
Namworld: One person and another from the same group can be complete opposite.
mircea_popescu: Namworld not in sid meyer's civilisation...
asciilifeform: 'you are on speaking terms with the night, as with an old enemy.' 'you sit in front of a machine that throws electrons in your face, all day, every day.' (former colleague's list of 'ye are a programmer if...')
Namworld: They're not all born with the same ideologies and values as their ancestors
asciilifeform: (re: 'how computer thinks')
radan: no, they're not
radan: they're raised in them
radan: saying "there's no similarities between individuals in a group" is a logical fallacy
radan: "nba players are just like any other people, some of them can shoot a basketball, some of them can't"
radan: "if you say otherwise you are racist"
Namworld: I didn't say there's none. It might be common. That's okay to expect similiarities to be probable. But one should not assume people from the same group will be alike.
radan: I never did
radan: this dialogue is veering dangerously close to autism
aclot: this dialogue is veering dangerously close to monologue
radan: ^^
Namworld: You said you knew how jews think. Jews have a common religion. Everything else could be completly different. Although the religion might influence a good portion into certain ideas, if you took jews and non jews mixed together and asked their point of view on various things that doesn't touch jews like Israel and such, you'd have a hard time spotting them.
aclot: ono! jew.gif
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6540 @ 0.00012502 = 0.8176 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.058999 = 0.531 BTC [+]
Namworld: I think it's been established what is progress to me. Speaking of groups in absolute fuels hate, especially when the one speaking doesn't believe in such absolute, is bad. Thus I will speak against it when I see it. Just like you would call out people on doing things you disapprove of.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00341123 = 0.2729 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: You know the biggest change in bitcoin from 2013 is last year is was hell trying to get mass media journalists interested in talking about MPEx.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19002 @ 0.00093155 = 17.7013 BTC [+]
Namworld: Well anyway, no point in talking further. I don't have anything else to do on the computer, I'll be on my way.
Namworld: Goodbye.
radan: I want to invest my 1 bitcoin
radan: in a good bitcoin bank
radan: any recommendations?
mircea_popescu: what's a bitcoin bank ?
hdbuck: some entity that holds your BTC for IUOs, then trade the shit out of it and run off whenever you claim them back?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.059 = 0.118 BTC [+]
ozbot: A Fundraiser, because this is way to young to have a paywall, but hosting isn't free | Bingo Blog
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.00093313 = 12.7372 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: I've put more though into the fundraising thing. If anyone really prefered the oil painting option I guess I could throw that in as well.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.07489628 = 0.9737 BTC [+]
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: i've seen a few wagers on bitbet that have "house bets" attached to them -- are there specific criteria for whether the house will throw down on a bet, or is it left to mod discretion?
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: "way to young to"
mircea_popescu: afaik all bets have house bets
nubbins`: ah, i see
nubbins`: what's the reasoning behind that?
mircea_popescu: gotta provide some initial turbulence, gotta reward people going out and crafting bets,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00093316 = 13.7175 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: by now coming up with bitbet bets is probably the highest paying writing gig on the internet.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Fixed
nubbins`: well i guess that explains why the house bet chose my address for payout
nubbins`: good to know, ty
ozbot: FAQ BitBet
nubbins`: well why don't i just read the fucking faq ;(
mircea_popescu: perhaps not paid enough ? :D
mircea_popescu: "Fred Ehrsam, a co-founder of the Bitcoin trading platform Coinbase, said his company took a position early on that it would not fight regulators. Regulators have cited it as an example of how others should behave."
mircea_popescu: who was asking about coinbase ?
mircea_popescu: "The whole reason we have such confidence in our company is that from the start we said this has got to be something that plays nicely with the traditional financial world," Ehrsam said in an interview.
radan: I was
mircea_popescu: so there you have it.
radan: is this a bad thing, or
mircea_popescu: that's entirely your call.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4158 @ 0.00012528 = 0.5209 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: !t h hif
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIF] 1D: 0.00047505 / 0.00047799 / 0.00051000 (233 shares, 0.11137229 BTC), 7D: 0.00039967 / 0.0004784 / 0.00051299 (5563 shares, 2.66135052 BTC), 30D: 0.00038617 / 0.00050487 / 0.00057500 (66212 shares, 33.42869431 BTC)
pigeons: coinbase: we're kinda like an exchange, but worse
nubbins`: heh.
mircea_popescu: in every conceivable way.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 581.66, vol: 21583.87073183 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 579.0, vol: 10000.35433 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 576.7096, vol: 18569.4595607 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 597.5, vol: 546.23592357 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 566.115, vol: 9728.67500000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 590.0, vol: 14.44894067 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 568.0781, vol: 118.14869583 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell reutersemily "Shortly after that, a bitcoin exchange known as bitfloor was shuttered after its US bank account was closed because it had not properly registered with regulators." << nah, bitfloor was run by shtylman, who either ran off with the coin or "lost" it.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell reutersemily "Concerns that regulatory action would cause customer funds to be trapped resulted in a sharp plunge in Bitcoin, falling from $US230 on April 10 to a low of $US68.49 on April 17" nah, that'll explain it to you.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: "Most professional users moved away from Mt. Gox months ago, leaving April 2013 or thereabouts. By June 2013, the final nail was in the coffin for US users," said one of bitcoin's core developers, who requested anonymity.
mircea_popescu: i love that part tho lol.
benkay: BingoBoingo: pm
BingoBoingo: benkay: ACK
benkay: ;;gpg eauth benkay
gribble: Request successful for user benkay, hostmask benkay! Get your encrypted OTP from
benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:3c006002ce8cbbf72573b4158142c2bcb43048cc8f368dd2f5480477
gribble: You are now authenticated for user benkay with key 39F274AFBC7ACAC7
benkay: ;;gettrust bitcoinpete
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user bitcoinpete: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never
BingoBoingo: ;;eauth BingoBoingo
gribble: Request successful for user BingoBoingo, hostmask BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo. Get your encrypted OTP from
BingoBoingo: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:299744a8584b2de5c5c306c2f3f5844ca6284e6dae1b43185c4e4295
gribble: You are now authenticated for user BingoBoingo with key 309BB8D7F3251143
BingoBoingo: ;;gettrust benkay
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask benkay! Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user benkay: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Sun Mar 10 13:57:45 2013
the20year1: just went in contract for #4
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00329954 = 0.1188 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 84 @ 0.00320001 = 0.2688 BTC [-] {4}
the20year1: mircea_popescu: where is this quote from, about professional users leaving gox in 2013?
ozbot: Mt. Gox was always dead in the water | Business Spectator
BingoBoingo: So my location is in the middle of a "Fire Weather Warning"
benkay: ;;later tell bitcoinpete let's do some gpg practice when you get back
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: On that note Imma head over a few hollers to pickle the liver. I am already considering at least 1 sponsorship offer for the blog, and I'll prolly contnue entertaining offers through Thursday.
benkay: yoloOppenheimer: great handle.
benkay: ;;google trilema doge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.000934 = 19.8942 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 518 @ 0.00315536 = 1.6345 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00313 = 0.1221 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07489628 = 0.1498 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05899999 = 0.295 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.062 = 0.31 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 22 @ 0.059 = 1.298 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 105 @ 0.00320001 = 0.336 BTC [+]
benkay: does kncminer ship product?
benkay: on a scale of "would buy from" to "utter scam", what is kncminer?
mircea_popescu: closer to the former afaik
mircea_popescu: these are the swedes neh ?
lyspooner: yes, they just put scrypt asics on pre-order yesterday
mircea_popescu: bout time.
benkay queues up the 'i told you so' routine for the local yokels
benkay: "memory from here to the garage"
benkay: get out of my face.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sed no, i sed no, what garage.
mircea_popescu: there was no garage.
the20year1: We just entered contract on property #6
the20year1: 8br/4ba 3200sf duplex, $1300/mo in income for $40k purchase , no repairs
mircea_popescu: the20year1 so thats 6 + 2 from b4 ?
Mats_cd03: .ud gpg
Mats_cd03: ;;ud gpg
gribble: | GPG. Grosse Pointe Guys. Loser guys that are deceitful, small, boring, worthless, and a complete waste of time. Glad Priscilla finally broke up with her dumb ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: gpg
the20year1: Property #6, this results in a total unit pool of 11
Mats_cd03: ;;ud pgp
gribble: | PGP. A pubic hair in plain view of the public, usually found on a toilet seat. Pube Gone Public. Instead of sitting on the toilet to unload my turd, I hovered over it ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: PGP
Mats_cd03: fucking loled
asciilifeform: ;;ud gru
gribble: | GRU. The Soviet military intelligence organization. GRU - Glavnoye Razvedyvatel'noye Upravleniye. by Да здравствует Родина September 03, 2012. 338 18.
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: gru
asciilifeform: well that's a first.
benkay: mircea_popescu: sed no as in scrypt asics are not possible?
mircea_popescu: sed no as in no such memory to garage is needed
mircea_popescu: and moreover, sed no as to "ram is cheaper than any other chip wtf are you on about"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you fail at ud game.
benkay: the garage comment came from a carpenter and not a silicon engineer.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.11950724 = 1.1951 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: Да здравствует Родина.
mircea_popescu: what's a здравствует ?
mircea_popescu: born to... live ?
asciilifeform: 'Да здравствуе' ~= '[let there] [have good health]' ~= engl. 'glory to'
mircea_popescu: but then... what, born what ?
asciilifeform: Родина == 'motherland'
mircea_popescu: o there we go
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 352 @ 0.00319027 = 1.123 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37150 @ 0.00093441 = 34.7133 BTC [+]
cazalla: mircea_popescu: i could've bought cheaper than $2 but like most idiots, i dismissed it
cazalla: and it wasn't me that recommended black mirror
mircea_popescu: now suffer.
cazalla: looks interesting though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00093441 = 11.3064 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07489628 = 0.3745 BTC [+] {2}
Mats_cd03: has anyone tried and have anything to say about it?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 21 @ 0.01686047 = 0.3541 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: aren't they the assholes who want your private key?
mircea_popescu: i recall people briefly considering and dimissing it
benkay: "On the website, all crypto is performed in JavaScript, in your browser. Some people have strong feelings about this, for good reason."
Mats_cd03: i have been told the implementation is undesirable
Mats_cd03: i appreciate your opinion
benkay: " is also a Keybase client, however certain crypto actions (signing and decrypting) are limited to users who store client-encrypted copies of their private keys on the server, an optional feature we didn't mention above."
benkay: it's a feature!
the20year1: I coulda bought bitcoins at 10c/ea
the20year1: but decided against it when faucets were free
benkay: Mats_cd03: i don't see the utility of training people out of good crypto habits.
Mats_cd03: i don't either
benkay: actually, I do, but it's nefarious.
benkay: and I won't stand for it.
asciilifeform: if livestock could be trained to seppuku, wouldn't need butcher.
kakobrekla: do you think they have that much dignity?
Mats_cd03: life is an indignity
benkay: and a burden
jurov: ultimate purpose of life is death
benkay: don't tell that to the geneticists from this morning, jurov
jurov: why?
benkay: oh it'll turn into a whole purpose of breeding niggers.txt thing
jurov: what, should i go on to logreading binge?
benkay: god no
dexX7: you guys were saying several times that the largest amount of bitcoin stolen from gox was rather in 2011 and 2012. is there any reference? what was mentioned in the drama timeline accounts for about 20k only
jurov: yes that was the biggest heist cuz no one knows
dexX7: ah so this is simply an assumption?
jurov: disregard me, i had some wine
jurov: but i'd suggest linking us who said what when
dexX7: well, i thought it was here at least ;)
mircea_popescu: o look it's a jurov
mircea_popescu: how;s the snow ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22093 @ 0.00093441 = 20.6439 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: dexX7 it's unclear what happened recently with gox.
mircea_popescu: the actual quote from drama timeline as to 2011 hack is "Amusingly, reports about the security such as it was having been breached were trickling in for weeks prior. Tis impossible to evaluate the actual loss with this one, but suffice it to observe that BTC was temporarily trading for 1 cent at the time."
mircea_popescu: which just goes to show mtgox is continuing in the same tradition
mircea_popescu: phin is trolling pretty hard :D
mircea_popescu: interesting. these are plots on the leaked data huh ?
mircea_popescu: useful effort, tho obviously one'd have to be cautious allocating too much credibility to the underlying datapoints.
mircea_popescu: sooo... some noob made a post suggesting is/was in cahoots with gox and waning against it. that post is now deleted off forum
mircea_popescu: anyone happened to have retained a copy ?
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, anyone happen to be the noob in question.
dexX7: there is some kind of mirror forum of btctalk which does not delete deleted posts
mircea_popescu: ttps://
mircea_popescu: found a repost.
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : "My guess: they lost money on trades while Gox was Goxing people, and now they're passing this loss on to "suspicious" accounts."
BCB: dexX7: what is that
mircea_popescu: BCB a mirror so as to prevent deletion of interesting material.
BCB: interesting.
dexX7: tbh i don't know exactly what it is. i guess the attempt to create bitcointalk 2.0
BCB: The FEDs already have a mirror
BCB: dexX7: GOAT is trying to do that
dexX7: a lot of people tried, i heard
BCB: mircea_popescu: you should conduct your own investigation into Satoshi Dice
mircea_popescu: so far relatively little grounds to.
jurov: lol i almost forgotten the snow by now
BCB: mircea_popescu: uncover the identy of the "mysterious buyer"
mircea_popescu: that's a fiat world thing to do neh ?
mircea_popescu: "Seems like this is the equivalent of a LE officer asking to search your car or house looking for evidence."
mircea_popescu: teh peanut gallery will turn evertything into its owne experiences.
dexX7: why should one care about the buyer?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin economy ? like the supermarket! regulatory matters ? like a traffic cop stop!
dexX7: it's only a thing between erik and the buyer
mircea_popescu: everything's like a peanut to these people.
jurov: mircea_popescu: oh and the trilema comment was meant like TIL what I said.
jurov: or TIL I should not interject with stupid remarks
ozbot: This privacy thing… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: yeah, srsly, no jurovs were raped in the makes of these epic lolz.
mircea_popescu: Bijan Sabet @bijan So I have this friend who wants a motorcycle. But my wife, I mean, his wife doesn't think it's a great idea. Any ideas how to win her over?
mircea_popescu: Kevin Thau @kevinthau · 12m @bijan I have the same friend.
mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu · 19s @bijan … (nsfw, meaning not safe for wife).
jurov: is she sitting on the grill? riding over cobblestones?
jurov: yea definitely nsfw
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.059 = 0.236 BTC [+]
benkay: mine liked it
benkay: but you know, pet redheads etc.
dexX7: to what office belongs +0731 076 827?
jurov: dexX7 wrong window
dexX7: nope
dexX7: was mentioned in the trilema article
dexX7: "Not that I don’t maintain offices or anything, you can call +0731 076 827 and talk to the receptionist any time you feel like."
mircea_popescu: dexX7 that'd seem to contain your answer ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.059 = 0.354 BTC [+] {2}
dexX7: no. >> what office? - it belongs to an office
mircea_popescu: mine dood.
pizzaman1337: I can't imagine MP going to an office
jurov: inb4 <dexx7> TIL.
mircea_popescu: it's really just a converted sauna
pizzaman1337: that makes me feel better
mircea_popescu: i just go there to lay on a couch with all sorts of flatware all over my head
pizzaman1337: pics or it didn't happen
benkay: heh im a museum
benkay: great url
dexX7: well the thing is, there is not even one phone number country code starting with a 7 :p
jurov: mp has own code
mircea_popescu: you add the country code
dexX7: then don't use a +
jurov: ^ true dat
ozbot: How to call Romania: country code, area codes, phone books
radan: are you in romania, dr. popescu?
radan: most financial people I know move to places like london and nyc
mircea_popescu: dexX7 i guess you'd want to see +40 731 076 827 ?
radan: I guess btc is decentralized enough for that not to be necessary for you
benkay: bitcoin finance happens anywhere but london and nyc, radan
radan: right
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96850 @ 0.00093923 = 90.9644 BTC [+] {5}
radan: like moscow
mircea_popescu: well there was some in nyc
radan: and omsk
radan: and chisinau
jurov: pyongyang
benkay: problem is keeping bitcoins within reach of the United States Government.
dexX7: yes, please. :p
radan: why doesn't north korea start an exchange
benkay: why bother? they just print all the usd they need for their iphones and chandon.
pizzaman1337: they'd need electricity first
mircea_popescu: they have electricity. they make people turn a huge wheel
jurov: radan you can easily wire usd thre?
radan: I don't know
radan: I'm the last person to ask about the north korean economy
mircea_popescu: it's a mess.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, they had a kidnapping white women programme going since the 70s, so you can't conveniently take a harem over unelss you actually shoot the little rat
mircea_popescu: whatever his name is, kim-stuffed-cabbage
dexX7: some guy on wikipedia uses trilema comments as reference.. hehe
mircea_popescu: so wait, wait. i said in a comment on trilema that the hansa exists since 1267 and thus this is the source of wikipedia ?
pizzaman1337: [unreliable source?]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16597 @ 0.00094018 = 15.6042 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: flattering.
mircea_popescu: anyway. there's an english royal charter mentioning the name
mircea_popescu: " Sciatis me concessisse civibus meis de
mircea_popescu: Escardeburg omnes libertates et leges et consuetudines suas, et nomina-
mircea_popescu: tim Gildam suam mercatoriam et hansas suas in Anglia et Normannia
mircea_popescu: et lestagia sua per totam costam maris quieta, et quod praedictas leges
mircea_popescu: et consuetudines habeant et teneant cum omnibus libertatibus praedictae
mircea_popescu: Gildae suae et hansis suis pertinentibus. "
dexX7: appears to be actually quite useful. while btctalk is returning 502, is still available
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21346 @ 0.00093304 = 19.9167 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: if only you could mirror thermos' wallet.
benkay: ;;later tell bitcoinpete subject of creative marketing and cars, did you ever see the frisky dingo scion episode?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00094024 = 7.945 BTC [+]
BCB: dexX7: is pretty fast too.
joecool: down?
joecool: !isitdown
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6186 @ 0.00094024 = 5.8163 BTC [+]
benkay: is that a thing?
benkay: ;;isitdown
gribble: is up
benkay: ;;isitdown
gribble: is up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05899 = 0.5309 BTC [-]
radan: are there btc index funds?
benkay: not really, radan. what would they be indexing?
benkay: all the scamcoins?
benkay: all the scamstocks?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 39 @ 0.0055584 = 0.2168 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.059 = 0.59 BTC [+]
radan: idk
radan: I'm an engineer, not a banker
nubbins`: what sort of train do you run?
benkay: a choo choo twane
nubbins`: too tooo
benkay: nubbins`: many thanks for design consult
nubbins`: hey, my pleasure
benkay: ;;rate nubbins 1 designs and prints
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
benkay: d'oh
benkay: ;;gettrust nubbins
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user nubbins: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never
benkay: ;;gettrust nubbins`
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user nubbins`: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013
benkay: ;;rate nubbins` 1 arts and prints
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user nubbins` has been recorded.
benkay: wow "excellent javascript skills"
nubbins`: i actually added nubbins without a ` to my highlight list because i was missing so many pings
nubbins`: and convinced nanotube to urlencode nicks so my rating page would display as nubbins%60 and not break clients
nubbins`: i tell ya, the things i do for this ` ;(
benkay: nanotube's generally amenable to not horrible ideas.
nubbins`: javascript, language of tomorrow
nubbins`: you might want to adjust the way footnotes are presented too
nubbins`: i.e. put the <sup> of the footnote number inside the <p> of the footnote text, so it doesn't put a huge break in there
benkay: javascript: it's totally lisp
benkay: ha yeah excellent idea, nubbins`, ty. fixing that's been on my agenda for a minute now
benkay: just.
benkay: exceedingly.
benkay: busy.
benkay: is there a non-horrible web analytics operation?
nubbins`: they're all a bit intrusive
nubbins`: google analytics is at least easy to implement, but people have strong opinions on it
benkay: starting with google.
nubbins`: lel yeah even without getting to the second word in the product name
benkay: having used it, it also sucks.
nubbins`: we used this one analytics package at my last job from -- i think -- adobe
benkay: shit operator, shit product.
benkay: any experience with piwik?
nubbins`: it took weeks to figure out what the fucking stats and graphs represented
nubbins`: i avoided working with analytics stuff whenever possible
nubbins`: terrible voodoo, this
nubbins`: innocently add analytics to a website, next thing you're spending your weeks tweaking goal funnels
nubbins`: rather than making websites
benkay: let me tell you something, dear client, you must actually sell your product.
benkay: *rolls eyes*
benkay: right up there with "sometimes the best mobile strategy is no mobile strategy"
nubbins`: just went downstairs to reclaim and recoat some screens -- found two fresh ones already coated and ready to burn
nubbins`: fist pump
nubbins`: we've got a rush job lined up for tomorrow and we won't get the final content for the posters until like 4am ;0
benkay: ka yikes
benkay: where can I see hashrate stats etc for atc?
cazalla: ;;seen ReutersEmily
gribble: ReutersEmily was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 58 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ReutersEmily> same album as Mistadobalina also features a wonderful song called "What Is A Booty"
cazalla: i wonder if she will return
ThickAsThieves: I suspect she will
KRS-One: I love that song Mistadoblina lol its good
KRS-One: i think the singer is ice cube's cousin or something
KRS-One: .bait
nubbins`: hmm.
KRS-One: Mmmm. Supple.
benkay: .bait
benkay: lame that's the same one!
benkay: .bait
KRS-One: wtf
KRS-One: .bait
KRS-One: the rng ok?
benkay: haw
KRS-One: someone needs to delete these black and whites..damn
cazalla: well, she didn't take the time to register her nick
BCB: ozbot, are they PM's girls
diametric: .bait
BCB: bait for what
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00093627 = 17.7891 BTC [-]
diametric: oh was showing my wife the command when she glanced over
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00093641 = 2.9965 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00324 = 0.1458 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 55 @ 0.0032295 = 0.1776 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10296 @ 0.00093627 = 9.6398 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00334999 = 0.1474 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 153 @ 0.00319985 = 0.4896 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07467777 = 0.3734 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00093579 = 21.3154 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07467777 = 0.1494 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10501 @ 0.00093472 = 9.8155 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.07475801 = 0.6728 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 155 @ 0.00315301 = 0.4887 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 803 @ 0.00315301 = 2.5319 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 27 @ 0.074989 = 2.0247 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.075 = 0.675 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.075 = 0.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00094066 = 47.3152 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00093976 = 14.1434 BTC [-]
Namworld: So anyway, yes, it seems the US-Russia clusterfuckshowfest is returning.
Namworld: There is a touch of Cold in the air.
dignork: Namworld, try reading the same text twice, it's FUD. Punchline is Jay Carney's phrase from two days ago
dignork: But nicely written, yes
← 2014-03-20 | 2014-03-22 →