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jfw: Hello world! My cargo and person have made it home safe.
jfw: The servers did attract some curiosity at customs, but no trouble once clarified they were my own, used, relevant to occupation, or whatever other checksums the agent was looking for.
jfw: They appear undamaged on first inspection. Can't quite say the same for myself, with one blister on finger to complement BingoBoingo's metal cut.
jfw: I know I've got logs/responses to catch up on; will tackle that tonight through tomorrow.
BingoBoingo: jfw: Good to hear. The finger's healing up nicely, the torn aluminum made a rather clean cut.
jfw: BingoBoingo: Glad to hear that then.
dorion_road: hey jfw good to hear!
BingoBoingo: jfw: I'll also give you a healthy window to get your photoblog out first.
whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I logged 11h of saltmines today. As of now I plan to get in a few extra hours of saltmines this week, and then use those hours to work fewer hours next week.
diana_coman: whaack: on the bright side, good for looking ahead; on the murky side, if saltmines are indeed the single most important thing to you, then you are screwed already.
diana_coman: jfw: good to hear all went well; looking forward to the article too!
diana_coman: whaack: get yourself all the sources that trinque published and make a plan to chew through them; they are mainly lisp too and you wanted that so hopefully you won't take ages on it either.
diana_coman: oh hey, welcome RubenSomsen
RubenSomsen: Looks like my patience has proven fruitful, hello
diana_coman: has it? how's that?
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: ^
RubenSomsen: The rabbit hole I dove in has reacted to my presence
diana_coman: lolz; do you take *me* for a rabbit hole?
RubenSomsen: Trilema was the rabbit hole, and yes, in a sense you are part of it, I believe
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: the point is that holes don't ever react, no; it's always and only people that might *act*; if you just wait until someone taps you on the shoulder, you might end up waiting for ever, you know?
diana_coman: yes, I do this thing on occasion, inviting people to talk but I might be rather ...rare in this.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: anyways; so what did those friends say that got you to have a look in the first place?
RubenSomsen: They were cryptic, it was not entirely clear to me, which is perhaps why I got curious
diana_coman: btw, TMSR is the thing I'm part of; it does/did start with Trilema but it's not quite ~same thing.
RubenSomsen: They're Bitcoin developers, cypherpunks
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: oh huh, where do those cypherpunks hang around those days anyway?
diana_coman: (and do they run away if I go and say hi?)
RubenSomsen: I suppose you can find them in #bitcoin-wizards
diana_coman searches for some old photo where she had blue fingernails and all that.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: are you a cypherpunk too?
RubenSomsen: I try not to carry too many labels, but I suppose it fits
diana_coman: eh, labels are stuck by others, what are they to you otherwise.
RubenSomsen: Well, they become part of your ego, and that leads to attachment
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: what are you working on those days? do you publish anything somewhere I can have a look at? (if you don't mind me looking at it...)
diana_coman: not by default, no; the way I see it, labels are simply ...offered as potential clues; you have a look at them and may choose /decide if you care at all, anyway
RubenSomsen: https://twitter.com/SomsenRuben/status/1145738783192600576
diana_coman: how would that even work if *all* labels were necessarily part of your ego, good god, it'd be all contradictions in there, lolz.
RubenSomsen: and more recently this, I suppose: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017287.html
diana_coman looks
RubenSomsen: I think the ego easily adopts labels. And I suppose that's fine, but it becomes really hard to let go when the label no longer serves you.
RubenSomsen: It manifests in tribalism, and you become willing to forego logic for the sake of it. I guess that's the part that bothers me.
diana_coman: that might fit you, if you say so, but it's not a universal nor a mandatory way-it-works.
diana_coman: hm, RubenSomsen did you stumble on trilema.com on any of the several articles touching on identity and how it works?
RubenSomsen: I did not, do you have any recommended reading?
RubenSomsen: One thing I'm curious about, is there a history between trilema and the early days of Bitcoin?
diana_coman: hm, where to start you from since it's not exactly a small topic; I'd say for basics and at least useful in more ways than one: personal sovereignty, the WoT, the V manual genesis
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: ahahah
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: mind giving me a brief summary as to what you made of trilema so far?
RubenSomsen: Thank you, I will read those
diana_coman: so that I get some idea where you are at.
RubenSomsen: I have no idea. Perhaps developers who talk about more than just coding. It feels like its glory days are in the past, and I am left looking at the remains. This is mostly my imagination filling in many blanks, I am probably wrong.
diana_coman: you are ...how to put this, not even close enough to be ...wrong, lolz.
diana_coman: do you know this thing that being wrong about something means that you are talking at least close enough to the topic as it were.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: from those links you gave, I get the impression that you are very much in with the popular crowd, segwit and all that; correct?
diana_coman: re timing, you know you can for starters perhaps look at the keys of people around and where were they created, might give some hint, lol.
RubenSomsen: I would say that is fair to say, but I am generally very open to differing opinions. I would not say I came to those views because they were popular.
RubenSomsen: And I am looking forward to being corrected on the origin of trilema.
diana_coman: well, for as long as you are still able to actually evaluate and re-evaluate things as you find them out, everything is still open; it's just when you are done re-evaluating anything that there's nothing left really.
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-10-08 mp_en_viaje: "no time to read" implicitly includes "i'm done re-evaluatin ganything"
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: do you know what this chan here is for/about?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012374 - meant "when the keys were created", no idea what/how I messed that up.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 06:48:38 diana_coman: re timing, you know you can for starters perhaps look at the keys of people around and where were they created, might give some hint, lol.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: btw, you should register a key with deedbot if you want that there is at all any "you" around here.
diana_coman: the WoT article I linked earlier should help explain "why" on this.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: re keys and exploring the wot, see wot.deedbot.org eg. this is me
diana_coman: anyways, now I snowed you in with links and all that, I'll let you chew through them; I'll bbl.
RubenSomsen: yes, I am chewing, thanks for the links and for the chat, diana
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: yw
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: have you been organising this ?
diana_coman: oh huh, "Prof. Ruben Somsen" too; this will be fun.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: why not give the links above when I asked about you?
RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha
RubenSomsen: I went through all your links, but I'm still puzzled. I see the WoT as a recurring theme, and this particular web seems to center around mircea_popescu
RubenSomsen: that individual seems to be an early bitcoin trader who did quite well for themselves
RubenSomsen: and your comment regarding segwit made me wonder whether there's some dissatisfaction with the direction that Bitcoin took
whaack: diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012331 << Ack. For Thursday and Friday I reduced reading The Odyssey to 1h from 2h, and I added 2h for both of those days of reading/drafting an article of annotations of trinque's irc bot. I also assigned my Sunday 4h slot to doing a final draft of said annotations article.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 04:05:56 diana_coman: whaack: get yourself all the sources that trinque published and make a plan to chew through them; they are mainly lisp too and you wanted that so hopefully you won't take ages on it either.
BingoBoingo: RubenSomsen: It is less of a dissatisfaction with what the core and other devteams did, and more of a rejection.
BingoBoingo: Bitcoin today works fine without segwit. It works very well on clients that don't use levelDB, etc
whaack: RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012391 - without any haha really, you should make your own website and own everything you did/do, yes; it's quite basic personhood at that.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 09:54:00 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012393 - ahaha, now this is quite something; a bit like saying "oh, that sun seems to be a little glowworm that got a lucky break.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 09:56:21 RubenSomsen: that individual seems to be an early bitcoin trader who did quite well for themselves
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: it's all there and here and in the logs - it just needs reading really; and maybe realising that "x years in bitcoin" might mean quite a different thing from what you thought it did.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: here, let me help you just a bit: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/ http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/ http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/ ...
diana_coman: ... http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/
diana_coman: if after all that you can't find the rest on your own steam, it's unlikely anyone can help really so I'll leave it at that.
diana_coman: RubenSomsen: http://trilema.com/2015/curriculum-vitae/
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012333 << welcome.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 06:22:04 RubenSomsen: Looks like my patience has proven fruitful, hello
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012391 << setting up a blog with mp-wp is a standard starting point, lobbes wrote a set-up guide and he links to a few others. the exercise will provide a useful intro to V.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 09:54:00 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-10#1012398 << works fine without the 'multisig' softfork likewise.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 10:20:59 BingoBoingo: Bitcoin today works fine without segwit. It works very well on clients that don't use levelDB, etc
diana_coman: spyked: can you add the younghands.club feed to feedbot in here?
diana_coman: whaack: look though at your plan as well as a whole and figure out what % you are where.
diana_coman: see if you're happy with it.
whaack: diana_coman: Do you mean for this week, or for all things planned since I started in younghands?
diana_coman: whaack: I mean for any week; look at % of time you spend and on what sort of things.
diana_coman: take this week's plan for instance.
whaack: diana_coman: Ah I see, I misunderstood the request to be what % I have completed so far, not how am I allocating my time.
diana_coman: so good you asked then, at least it got clarified.
diana_coman: jfw: why no pics!
jfw: diana_coman: they're coming, they're coming! I'm expecting it'll take some time to sort through them though so I wanted to make sure the text wasn't taking a back seat from the start
diana_coman: well, next time I'll have a go then "why no text!!!" :D
BingoBoingo: The nice thing about photoblogging is once the pictures are organized, they make nice signposts for the text.
jfw: any tool suggestions for photo culling btw? I'm quite sure my current setup is sub-optimal.
BingoBoingo: jfw: And do feel free to ask if you get your bronze men on horseback mixed up
jfw: BingoBoingo: if in doubt I can always guess Artigas right?
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-06#1012166 - I reckon this advice is valid for me too.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 12:27:14 diana_coman: whaack: it's certainly a reflection of the fact that you find it important, yes; and so indeed you should certainly write about it; note that this doesn't mean that every tiny detail is just as important ie you aim for truthful (if, inevitably, subjective since it's your own lens) not some "objectively complete" nonsense.
BingoBoingo: jfw: Right! Darktable doesn't suck too much for batch processing a folder full of images. Ristretto is good for flipping through a bunch of pictures and hitting the delete key as needed to get a folder ready for darktable.
diana_coman: jfw: it is, yes.
BingoBoingo: jfw: With your camera I imagine you should be able to read names, but Artigas is a good default guess.
BingoBoingo: Lavalleja another
diana_coman: re photo tools, I'm probably not the best person to advise; I used all sorts, gimp, ristretto, feh, imagemagick; I think it's more a matter of figuring out the process that works best for you and then fitting the tools into it.
diana_coman: ie I can't spend too much time on photos or I'll throw all of them to the bin, so...
BingoBoingo: The workflow where I dump the photos from the camera into a folder, prune the folder with ristretto, and batch export them to blog size with darktable came about with the pizarro dismantling. Probably not the best work flow, but it keeps me from having to devote much attentive time to the task.
jfw: BingoBoingo: darktable is looking more advanced than anything I need now compared to existing imagemagick recipe, but good to know; on ristretto, I was an XFCE fan back in the late '00s but it's now sadly blocked by DBus ban
jfw: either cleaning that from a current release or reviving an old release that didn't mandate DBus would make a strong candidate for tmsr-os desktop imo.
jfw: I think I can stick with 'feh' for now and focus on the process as diana_coman says.
BingoBoingo: The particular tools involved probably aren't important as the look, cull, resize (if needed), and order workflow
jfw: I'll say - it's pretty neat to read BingoBoingo in his real voice now; my imagined one was pretty far off, as such things tend to be. Not Middle Western enough probably.
diana_coman: hah; so... are you going to publish a recording too?
BingoBoingo: Writing too much about the photos before you've got them ordered seems like a recipe for leaving a lot of text on the discard pile
jfw: diana_coman: didn't get one I'm afraid.
BingoBoingo: jfw: Nice to hear. It's always interesting to encounter in the irlspace folks from the IRC.
whaack: diana_coman: Okay without spending the time to create categories and come up with specific percentages, I see a problem and the reason for your message about saltmines being the most important thing for me. The issue is that I have this big chunk of saltmines to start the week, and then i'm scattered throughout 'a little/(a lot of) writing here, a little reading there, a dash of home improvement.' I would like to have a long multid
whaack: ay block of time allocated where I am working on a tmsr related project. How about for next week and going forward I adjust by doing (1) 16 hours of saltmines a week split on Monday and Tuesday (2) 2h timed-and-capped writing sessions (ideally I can squeeze these into my saltmines days, but otherwise on Wed/Thursday) (3) allocate the rest of the time (about ~28 hours) to a tmsr related project you assign me. For next week the proje
whaack: ct that makes the most sense imo is building my computer and installing one of cuntoo/gales linux.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It also didn't occur to us that a photograph of the servers rolling down the rambla is something that we should have taken until the servers were done rolling. Will try to get one when asciilifeform's servers are moving.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: aha, servers rollin' for sure.
BingoBoingo: Not a single person asked us what we were moving or why.
diana_coman: whaack: it's also simply overall; also, reading is not work ffs, it's meant to be enjoyable; the way you plan the reading it's like a chore; is it that horrid for you or what?
jfw: BingoBoingo: makes sense re photos as guideposts.
whaack: diana_coman: No reading is not horrid at all lol.
diana_coman: whaack: so then why so planned and eating out of the time for work, I don't get it.
diana_coman: jfw: you know, I just realised that there are even some old voice recordings from old [fain.polimedia.us][fain] days, ha.
whaack: diana_coman: Because it is enjoyable but needs focus, I don't see it as something to do while tired before going to sleep. (Nothing wrong with reading before going to sleep, but I have to assume I didn't digest the text as well as I could have.)
diana_coman: whaack: well yes, but what, after 8 hours of saltmines you are so tired that you can't read for 2 hours??
BingoBoingo: jfw: Here's a sample from my blogging output that does the narrative/photo mix. You probably recognize a lotta these places now. http://bingology.net/2019/notes-from-the-second-meeting-with-counsel-or-what-i-have-come-to-expect-from-urugauyos-in-offices/
whaack: diana_coman: No, 8 hours of saltmines by itself does not incapacitate me for reading.
diana_coman: whaack: re installation attempts, give Gales a spin at least; at any rate, if you want graphics though, you'll still need something else.
jfw: diana_coman: is the fain link supposed to be alive? looks like 'domain parking' from here
jfw: whaack: at your service for any questions on the Gales front.
whaack: diana_coman and jfw: Thanks. The only reason I need graphics afaik is for reading my own/others' blogs. If this is a 'self-perceived need' that i don't actually need, lmk.
jfw: whaack, I do think you need at least one machine capable of that. ANd you were interested in Eulora client work too right?
diana_coman: jfw: ah, no, sadly it's not alive anymore; I linked it for reference as to what it was, though probably I should have linked some trilema articles on it (eg http://trilema.com/2011/sa-desenam-cu-fain/); but the recordings are on blogs, there was some poem reading/translating, hm
whaack: jfw: ah yes, that as well.
diana_coman: whaack: for reading blogs you wouldn't need graphics absolutely, no; that being said though, you DO need ONE station with graphics, lol
diana_coman: yes, for eulora if not for anything else.
jfw: photo blogs??
diana_coman: jfw: are you *reading* photos now?
jfw: ahaha, no, indeed. But it'd be harder to make sense of the text in them.
diana_coman: yes, if no graphics then no pics, obv; if all the article is nonsense without seeing the pics, then shame on the author really :P
jfw: true too and I had a feeling you'd say that.
diana_coman: yes, well, what's "harder" going to do though? ie all sorts of reasons for "harder" otherwise anyway; but yes, pics should not be mandatory for making sense of text, really now.
whaack: diana_coman: So I think I mentioned before, i have a lenovo laptop with a hello-world gentoo install. I could replace the gentoo with gales, and then use my new computer for an os with graphics.
diana_coman: perhaps not as much "harder" as missing one part, ie less content than the author provided, which is indeed precisely what it is: cut something out and you'll have less than it was (that being said and pushing this to the absolute ideal, even pics ca have textual descriptions to convey precisely what they are there for but let's not get too carried away).
diana_coman: can*
diana_coman: whaack: makes sense; but maybe first build that computer and get it running.
diana_coman: for the logs since I brought up fain, this is the end announcement, when it was auctioned but nobody wanted to take it on and keep it alive.
whaack: diana_coman: Okay that will come before installing anything on the lenovo. I still need to choose an os that has graphics between now and ~Monday. Cuntoo afaik would be the best choice in terms of having something working where I can also be of use testing.
jfw: I stand corrected on "harder", and wouldn't disagree that the text should stand on its own. So, just missing out on some of the provided content.
diana_coman: whaack: what do you mean? cuntoo does not have the x stack, no.
whaack: diana_coman: Ah for some reason I thought it did. Well then nevermind.
diana_coman: whaack: no but it's based on gentoo so in principle if you can get it to bring in the whole x stack you'll end up with...gentoo, I suppose.
diana_coman: ahaha, jfw for your ro-practice, here's from fain days: http://ossasepia.com/2010/07/20/versuri-si-traduceri/ answering the request from http://trilema.com/2010/cateva-versuri/ (and in turn the PS + some comments answer mine, as it happens).
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-06#1012198 - thanks whaack, small changes went a long way on the css, mostly one color pick and deleting some web designer silliness. The stylesheet should make an easy diff against the one from stock 'classic' theme
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 13:50:36 whaack: jfw: have fun in Uruguay, btw I never mentioned - the css on your blog is lookin sharp indeed! it's a nice touch for the great content that's being produced (although I admit I haven't found much time to fully read your articles.)
whaack: diana_coman: Is starting by installing cuntoo and then setting myself up with x11 a worthy exercise?
whaack: jfw: your welcome
whaack: you're*
diana_coman: behind the scenes, people ask for the recordings so here are the 2 rather poor recordings - first 2 links as the rest (other people reading same text) meanwhile vanished, gah.
diana_coman: whaack: well, it's a ... workout, lolz; how much did you use gentoo so far?
whaack: diana_coman: i didn't use it at all.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-08#1012243 - muahaha, chips whose time has come had best fear my pliers. 120 VAC smoke testing is fun too though we didn't go for that here.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-08 09:01:39 diana_coman: heh, jfw finds out he likes destroying things too, not only making them?
diana_coman: whaack: hm, in that case it's not all that clear if it's worth it really; tbh on my eulora-client-has-to-have-everything I ended up setting centos 6 because no idea wtf else is even remotely sufferable currently otherwise
jfw: "Click si ascultati:" - this much I understand!
diana_coman: the first is a text with all words starting with f - you can read it too as it's the previous article there
diana_coman: jfw: ^
jfw: haha nice.
diana_coman: whaack: last time I had a gentoo all graphics and bells and whistles and all that, it was horribly stinky (though I didn't bother to try and clean it, it was going to be stinky and that was that)
whaack: diana_coman: Well then centos 6 sounds like the practical option. I can use my side laptop for masochistic exercises with experimental operating systems.
jfw: whaack: manual X11 build even on dynamic-linked musl and as someone who knows what most of the necessary pieces are was a workout indeed; wouldn't recommend as beginner exercise. OTOH, a 'normal' gentoo (if there's even such a thing) could be good experience and can indeed run full graphics after the requisite driver futzing. But yeah, centos 6 probably easiest.
BingoBoingo: whaack: Centos6 is probably the safer option. Playing with Devuan "Jessie" it seemed fine, but who knows how long the mirrors supporting it will remain before it gets depreciated for the next "oldstable" release.
diana_coman: whaack: aha; note that centos 6 is a. last one without systemd b. set to vanish next March iirc ie get everything you need for it offline.
diana_coman: and sure, plenty of masochistic exercises available, don't worry of any lack there.
jfw: there is however http://vault.centos.org/ , they preserve better than many.
diana_coman: yeah; still better on own shelf :P
jfw: aye, and iirc it's not all that big of a thing to mirror at least if you restrict architectures
whaack: the council appears to be in agreement. Okay I will go with centos 6 and make backups of drivers and such.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-08#1012284 - I totally just got what 'shannonizing' means, long after having seen the term in logs and read partway through his paper.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-08 13:25:00 diana_coman: whaack: words are NOT chosen at random around those parts! if you want random-words, go to the shannonizing crowd.
jfw: RubenSomsen: welcome. "this is by no means a replacement for running a full node" - heh, well at least you say it!
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 06:33:39 RubenSomsen: and more recently this, I suppose: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017287.html
jfw: I wonder though, why the interest in exploring the space of how "owning btc" could be made easier for leechers who don't actually care to own their node?
jfw: "It is our hope that gaining a deeper understanding of Bitcoin will lead to a deeply motivated community." - nice; deeper understanding can certainly be had from hanging around here though "community" might be too squishy a term.

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