Results 1 ... 250 found in all logged channels for 'zx2c4' |

(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: puman: this was in a ~much~ earlier thread, and 0 to do w/ zx2c4 afaik
(asciilifeform) puman: I send young friends interested in "sekoority" to Koblitz, because they can only find meaning in credentialed authority, they wouldn't "trust" puman or ascii for that matter. Similar to zx2c4 fella, seems he even found a Koblitz paper by himself and came back to share with #t.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: (trilema) 2018-04-16 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: ahh that ignorant and antiquated notion, that "key size implies security size". or do you think there will be some amazing GNFS-like algorithms that come out for ECC, requiring ECC to use absurdly huge keys in the same way as RSA?
(asciilifeform) puman: just went through the saga of zx2c4
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: presently 2 instances of bot, 1 here, 1 on fleanode, logging into same db.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: actually atm there's exactly 1 box.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: this really is a pilot box, i expect login mechanism will change in near future (see logs)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: welcome to dulapnet, zx2c4 .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: from here, if yer lazy.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: see log plz
(alethepedia) snsabot: (trilema) 2018-11-29 asciilifeform: zx2c4: weren't you here last yr for a 'the technical cannot be separated from the political' and 'if program+all accessories doesn't Fit In Head, it is garbage, not proof' thread ?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-28 00:55:09 gregorynyssa: zx2c4: asciilifeform: GUIs aside, the community never even mastered the art of building TUIs, owing to "terminal madness," or "termios madness."
(asciilifeform) gregorynyssa: zx2c4: asciilifeform: GUIs aside, the community never even mastered the art of building TUIs, owing to "terminal madness," or "termios madness."
(asciilifeform) gregorynyssa: zx2c4: thanks for the link.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: i already have emacs for ~that~ lol
(asciilifeform) zx2c4: verisimilitude: indeed, pretty gnarley. have since rewritten basically all of it... https://git.zx2c4.com/wireguard-freebsd/
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: Hello zx2c4; I've actually read the relevant logs showing me some of that discussion.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform vaguely recalls a minor flamefest w/ zx2c4 over automated program checkers or sumsuch. 2018.
(asciilifeform) trinque: welcome back zx2c4
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: zx2c4: #t had at one time a plague of various ??? walking in and 'gimme coin'. they could 'smell' mp et al's coin, from great distance, like proverbial flies/shit
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: btw zx2c4 your proggy seems to be mega-popular, i regularly encounter users in commercial world. ask'em to pitch in a penny each, could handily build own irc net or just about anything short of mars colony
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: hi zx2c4 . i recall you from #t, 'wireguard' fella.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: (trilema) 2018-05-04 asciilifeform: zx2c4: your null hypothesis is defective.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: verisimilitude: before you do, check out how previous one went
(asciilifeform) snsabot: (trilema) 2018-11-29 asciilifeform: zx2c4: whole reason i bother with this thread is to explain why no, i would ~not~ like to suck the coq, if you will
(asciilifeform) snsabot: (trilema) 2018-11-29 asciilifeform: zx2c4: point being, i don't practice haskellism. and nit from being illiterate yokel who has nfi how. it so happens that i know how. but consider the whole approach to be braindamaged .
(asciilifeform) snsabot: zx2c4 last seen in #trilema on 2018-11-29 23:54:33: My "nice post" remark wasnt sarcastic, if thats what youre responding to
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: !q seen-anywhere zx2c4
(trilema) deedbot: 2018/11/30 04:54:33 <zx2c4> My "nice post" remark wasnt sarcastic, if thats what youre responding to
(trilema) BingoBoingo: !!seen zx2c4
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zx2c4 iirc
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 03:07 asciilifeform: zx2c4: you may find it interesting to learn that i once worked in a dour 'salt mine' where shat out 'correctness proof' all day. in 'sage.'
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 04:53 mircea_popescu: !!rate zx2c4 -1 moron
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 03:07 asciilifeform: zx2c4: you may find it interesting to learn that i once worked in a dour 'salt mine' where shat out 'correctness proof' all day. in 'sage.'
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) mircea_popescu: i tell you truthfully, no case of femtarded "oh i make choices, have oppinions blablabla" out of thousands in the same interval infuriate nearly anywhere near the level of a zx2c4 or a l0de or whatever other such example.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
(trilema) asciilifeform: i pictured zx2c4 as also young, but i have nfi specifically
(trilema) asciilifeform: tried, for instance, to actually read zx2c4's hairball, ran outa barfbags
(trilema) mircea_popescu: !!rate zx2c4 -1 moron
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:36 zx2c4: nice post
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: see ch1
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: with bare hands.
(trilema) asciilifeform: consider, zx2c4 , i can show that nuffin in my arithm routines can overflow a buffer. even if you were to turn ada's overflow checks off. without any complicated tooling.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: lemme ask you this -- those mecha-proofs of yours, how much do you actually believe in'em ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: you may find it interesting to learn that i once worked in a dour 'salt mine' where shat out 'correctness proof' all day. in 'sage.'
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: lemme ask, on what authority am i to accept the correctness of a proof generated via e.g. coq ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: whole reason i bother with this thread is to explain why no, i would ~not~ like to suck the coq, if you will
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: i like paper. and even chalk.
(trilema) asciilifeform: this is a political declaration, not an astronomical observation, zx2c4
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: theorem that dun fit in any 1 skullcase, aint proven.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: try to think about what i actually said tho
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: point being, i don't practice haskellism. and nit from being illiterate yokel who has nfi how. it so happens that i know how. but consider the whole approach to be braindamaged .
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:23 asciilifeform: zx2c4: as a matter of fact, is IS a conclusion i can jump to trivially. because your supposed 'person' is actually a nameless cockroach beneath my feet. because he is not in the wot, and thereby not distinguishable from the 90000..+ faux 'humans' usg manufactures on daily basis to further its psyops.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: weren't you here last yr for a 'the technical cannot be separated from the political' and 'if program+all accessories doesn't Fit In Head, it is garbage, not proof' thread ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: didnt mircea_popescu send you a coin ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: long time no see. what brings ya back ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:10 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: this article is about making a company right? i'm not doing that. im just writing painstaking careful code and giving it to the world for free
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and we'll show THIS discussion to the jwz/zx2c4/randomoron of the future, too, and he'll be "umm...i dunno... http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/#selection-1567.0-1567.61 etc.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:09 zx2c4: why does the government have an interest in me hearing about nadia's work rather than your work?
(trilema) asciilifeform: i actually have nfi what specifically the zx2c4 d00d was speaking of.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-07-14 16:31 mircea_popescu: smoking nervously in the corner, cazalla mother[m] valentinbuza zineKing zx2c4 etc.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 is still "writing painstaking careful code and giving it to the world for free", darwin fish is still http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1800306 and will until the day he dies, what, "i'm glad we gave out some posters at $derpcon".
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:22 asciilifeform: zx2c4: author of 'wireguard' ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: smoking nervously in the corner, cazalla mother[m] valentinbuza zineKing zx2c4 etc.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) mircea_popescu: or if you prefer, douchebag or zx2c4 or kanzure or whatever. the postmodern world consists of a bunch of "directors" (in their own mind) who might maybe consider giving ~you~ a role in their WoWoW thing they've got going -- in their skull.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 16:39 a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:30 mircea_popescu: !!pay zx2c4 1
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:14 zx2c4: i'd be wary of any 'deal' that's different from: 'i'm given money. you're given warm feelings of having helped the internet.'
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
(trilema) mircea_popescu: that's your "experts" zx2c4, from matthew retardenfield all the way down the mongoloid chain.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, zx2c4 's "academics" or w/e you'd call them. the rubber chicken guzzlers, the conference goers, the code-of-conducted, the everyday cuck
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 16:57 zx2c4: - hanno being a journalist is a mere cover story for a more sinister secret government intelligence job he holds.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: the logs countain a thousand examples. e.g. most americans are convinced that they can buy and drink milk in the corner shop ( they cannot, they buy 'ultrapasteurized' rubbish that tastes nothing like actual milk) ; that they live in 'nice house' ( they live in equiv of movie set, made of matchsticks, that falls over when first serious gust of wind ), that ... i could go on for a week and not even scratch the surface
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, what's your experience of commie ro anyway ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, anyway ; his argument is principally that they were straight talking. which is true, the difference between stalin-socialism and roosevelt-socialism is strictly that the cripple shunned straight talk ; whereas the bank robber reveled in it.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: ever so much as set foot outside of nato reich ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, why don't you realise b was better than a when your experience of b is mediated by the items that produced a ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, "there are no new things in this world besides the history you do not know" is a somewhat famous quip.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: remember when 'big blocks'(tm)(r) were 'definitely happening any day'(tm)(r) ?
(trilema) zx2c4: (zx2c4 is a sophisticated chatbot but sometimes his neural network trainings are constrained)
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, that's not what i said is it ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: the society you actually live in, makes ceaucescu's look like refreshing paradise of straight-talk
(trilema) mircea_popescu: but yes, zx2c4 : there are heuristics which do make human work easier. and it is the tell tale of a made agent, that he gets sent on garbage missions.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, are you aware some mit schmuck was "in charge of bitcoin" "left by satoshi" and then i said he'd better get lost and then he was kicked off like so much flotsam ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: as a matter of fact, is IS a conclusion i can jump to trivially. because your supposed 'person' is actually a nameless cockroach beneath my feet. because he is not in the wot, and thereby not distinguishable from the 90000..+ faux 'humans' usg manufactures on daily basis to further its psyops.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, not a matter of trivially. what i say has a lot of power, such as to end careers, research lines etcetera.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, the debian bug was a nsa plant is neitehr controversial nor requires any conspiracy.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, a) it is not a complaint b) seeing how i'm the one with all the money and all the rapes, i can scarcely conceive what "the world" even is.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, in statistics, it's the universal "no relevance" ; in practice, this must be translated to meaning.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: well, you seem to see the burden of proof, on asciilifeform , to show that debiankeys , or e.g. heartbleed, was a work of nsa plant
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: your null hypothesis is defective.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i don't think the usg is capable of representing me at all.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: take very concrete case, of the debian keys. i.e. a nsa-planted 'bug'. it was very concretely in the nsa interest to prevent public euclidization , would have revealed the 'bug' immediately.
(trilema) asciilifeform: specifically to ~prevent~ folx such as zx2c4 from hearing about e.g. phuctor, or other actual attempts at experiment, and if they hear -- from taking seriously. 'boeck did it in 2007' 'but did he publish a divisor?' 'uhhhh'
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: the fraudulent content-free publications of supposed 'results' consisting of 'we broke 9000 keys last year, but no we won't say which keys and what the divisors are' are smoke screen, plain and simple.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, let's think about it together, then.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i dunno what conspiracy is under discussion here.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: then i would ask why you decided to be an accomplice in usg coverup ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: the fact that not a single broken key was published prior to phuctor's, is not a problem in your eye ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, show me these results!
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, which part ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: 2) they did not do the research
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, 2. 3 is an indirect side effect of no particular consequence.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: consider, 'researchers' did their 'research' while the debian keys calamity lay unpublic for 3+ yrs.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, understand the full model of this : ambitious people whose hardware does not support their aspirations (ie, the aspirational 14%) say things that are not true. such as "we did research of so and so". now and again, they happen on a useful lie, something the establishment does not actually want researchedf. so they get a little slop, to encourage them to continue with their nonsense, while their imago is then used to pe
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: pay and written orders are not a necessary hypothesis. fact of the matter is that you do not get to ~become~ 'a nadia' or 'a boeck' unless you behave 'like a civilized academic' and do what is expected of you, without being asked.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, no. i am saying that they are intelectually incosequential ninnies, who happened to tell a convenient lie.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: i refuse to dignify their disinfo with the word 'study'
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: what they do -- we call it fraud.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, you're more than welcome to identify sets of keys WITH THE RESPECTIVE FACTORS published by anyone, at any time, then compare this with the phuctor set, and then write to whatever plagiarism committee you imagine is keeping academia from wallowing in the utter gutters of the intellectual world.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: i wrote phuctor in 2013 after yrs of watching academiderps fraudulently pretend to have performed similar experiment ( while they published 0 keys )
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: the 'idea' is, arguably, euclid's.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, "real" in what sense ? it was published once phuctor published the results, through the procedure of copy.pasting it.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, vice-versa.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-23 22:05 mircea_popescu: !!key zx2c4
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 19:58 zx2c4: wondering - how might i achieve great wealth and donations for wireguard from you/trilema?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 16:05 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: i take it now that mostly you're skeptical because the nsa was pushing ecc in the early years, before everyone else woke up to it
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:30 mircea_popescu: !!pay zx2c4 1
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, it doesn't pay enough to save ? i made more money than i knew what to do with during my stint.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, well, so then take it easy and trust in the future ? obviously not everyone can possibly be running clippers to india, else who'd be making the colonnades back in the forum.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, they have no pill for rsa ; which is why the ecc behaviour.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, not doomed as long as the republic stands.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, my concern is that the literature is entirely worthless.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, understand, the expectation here isn't "longer, therefore better". the situation is as described above, my key budget is 4096 bits, both ecc and rsa are ok by this measure.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, look, think of a number between 0 and 2, 0 and 2 exclusive. have you ? here i go, ima guess it! you thought of 1!
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i am very skeptical because rsa they hated and ecc they pushed and then suddenly everyone forgot the 90s and is all onboard.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, looky, i get that i may seem retarded at times and in some lights, but it's not a safe assumption.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, and the "that many attacks against RSA dont work with ECC" claim is especially odious, as it comes from a single source, which is a criminal org with a history of manipulatively lying. what happens is that usg publishes every ~useless "attack" on rsa and withholds the few ~working~ attacks on ecc from publishing. then you get this situation where seemingly, for the very naive surface-seekers, "ecc has advantages". it h
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i proposition that the smaller the key, the smaller the key. this can't be meaningless.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, the only thing you can get with a smaller key is "something just as good", in the sense mcdonalds is just as good as the restaurant i go to. perhaps it is -- for the poor. i'm not poor, nor do i orient my life around the needs of the needy.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, no, they're fucking disputable. you're going to tell me you get "the same thing" but "with a smaller key" ? i'm tuning out, this is nonsense.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i don't buy into the advantages.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, given like that for the sake of ready computability, see. nothing more.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, was just an example.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i suspect you're right.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, the idea being that the "wtf are you going to do, keep talking forever with anyone you ever talk to ?! morons!" problem is not unknown, but a major item giving me a bellyache as it stands now. invariants, god damn them all.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, tmsr, the most serene republic, this thing. gossipd, lessee.... there's http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ and http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gossipd and not much else. it's vaporware for now.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, yeah. have you seen anything re gossipd, ~speaking the tmsr-wireguard ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, honestly, i'm satisfied with this for an answer "look, wireguard can be used many ways, nothing wrong with your way, and it's supported, but in general other people want other things and so there it is".
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, so is your idea that basically this should be handled by the app importing your lib, rather than the lib itself, more flexibility this way ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, i don't mean random (20,200). i just mean, the size of your smallest non-zero packet. was it 8 or what was it ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, some random 8 byte string or whatever.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, but the option isn't exactly "send nothing or send 0 length message". the option is "send nothing / zero length message OR send the time".
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, go ahead.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4, does that work ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:37 zx2c4: i'm not saying everyone with leisure _does_ do something worthwhile with it. but you cant deny that leisure is in many cases a necessary precondition for many great aspects of civilization
(trilema) mircea_popescu: it's indisputable that the work put in by various republian people is worth money ; and this constitutes an investment they made. nevertheless, how this is evaluated is rather an open question -- according to say zx2c4
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:16 mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you'd be terribly worse off, and so would be the bitcoin ecosystem.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:22 zx2c4: the reason is actually, "so that i can have a fixed income without any concrete labor obligations"
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:37 zx2c4: i'm not saying everyone with leisure _does_ do something worthwhile with it. but you cant deny that leisure is in many cases a necessary precondition for many great aspects of civilization
(trilema) mircea_popescu: o hey, check it out zx2c4 ! leisure works!
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 i'm sorry, i got confused. " this scandal is why socrates didn't even fucking want plato's disgusting silver. and now think -- that for his great merits, socrates was in fact given by the city "2000 btc"" is what i meant.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 so i take it you're familiar with history as retold by the esl : how socrates died, and how plato did not die.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 but you are aware how the economics of either greek philosophy or jazz music worked irl ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 so where's the 500 rembrandts ? (do you know the reference ?)
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 that's the same thing.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 looky, the only reason you want "an infinity of monyz" is "so that i don't have to tihnk of monyz anymore", which is simply the way you've rephrased "so i can be stupid with impunity" in a way to meet your blindspots.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 this certainty is borne out of nothing in particular. i've been sitting here for many years, watching many kinds and sorts of people getting power beyond their means.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 no, because you'd do something stupid.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you'd be terribly worse off, and so would be the bitcoin ecosystem.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 understand, this self-flattering notion that you're in control is bunk. you're in no position to be in control in that sense. all that you're filtering for by that mechanism is "bullshit deal i don't comprehend". which... of course you would be.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 it relates specifically to the "which is why real funding for wireguard would be so much better". no, it wouldn 't be. you'd just end up trapped in some sort of bullshit deal.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 it's more generally about how the whole sucker business works.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 how's that work out btw ? i vaguely considered it for eulora but never actually bothered to push the point.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you pretty much work alone on the thing, don;t you ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 i don't get it, you just got a coin, should last you a while neh ?
(trilema) BingoBoingo: zx2c4: You spoke a lot yesterday, but neglected an important question: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 talk to me here plox.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 17:27 mircea_popescu: zx2c4 the good news is that i am now finally in a position to explain what EXACTLY is meant by "terrorist" : that feeling in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797417 when shit keeps coming and coming and coming up. what is it, if not spiritual terror ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 00:42 zx2c4: spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797801 tamarin (and cryptoverif and proverif) spit out the proof too. tamarin has a nice mode that will draw diagrams and flow charts too to make it easier to digest the proofs. people even have scripts to convert the output into latex in case you want an academic paper for free...
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 specifically for the "empty room" problem he brought up. do you follow the logic there ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 20:20 spyked: zx2c4, I've been looking over the tamarin protocol verification paper and I'm curious, what does "symbolic verification" mean? also, what's the thing's output? is it just a "yes, properties hold" or does it also output the proof?
(trilema) zx2c4: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797528 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797506 -- in case you're interested in the ecc stuff more, the formally verified fiat and hacl implementations are not the only ones we have. we also have constant time accelerated x86 adx and bmi2 implementations https://git.zx2c4.com/WireGuard/tree/src/crypto/curve25519-x86_64.h and also constant time accelerated arm neon implementations
(trilema) spyked: zx2c4, I've been looking over the tamarin protocol verification paper and I'm curious, what does "symbolic verification" mean? also, what's the thing's output? is it just a "yes, properties hold" or does it also output the proof?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:25 zx2c4: i havent compiled a list of Name+WrittenReview. maybe i should do that
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:15 zx2c4: shape packing?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:13 zx2c4: but even hardness of factoring... how hard is this actually? what number theoretic advances are right around the corner?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:12 zx2c4: things like RSA boil down to number theory problems. but that's in a sense scarier than the set of problems that good block ciphers tend to boil down to. because it means that those primitives have lots of _structure_, and generally structure is something that can be exploited. just look at all the amazing and fantastic attacks on things with structure. so just boiling down to a [currently considered] "hard problem" doesn't provide as much solace
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:57 zx2c4: https://א.cc/wrlf5K8I voila
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:48 zx2c4: our two x25519 C implementations (32bit and 64bit) are actually generated by theorem proving software, so that we're sure they dont contain any errors
(trilema) ckang: hey nice glad to see zx2c4 made it in
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: you can come back any time, you have voice now.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 and the good news is, linus permitted ada modules before.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: there is some quite 'fascist' compile-time checking. most noobs to the lang, spend a week or so getting their proggy to even build.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: performance is difficult to compare; if you remove various safeguards, you get ~same binary as equiv c proggy would have produced on same ver of gcc.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 the good news is that i am now finally in a position to explain what EXACTLY is meant by "terrorist" : that feeling in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797417 when shit keeps coming and coming and coming up. what is it, if not spiritual terror ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 17:20 zx2c4: you guys have invented lots of things here
(trilema) mircea_popescu: could you guess, zx2c4 , why we would favour ada for finnicy work such as crypto libs ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4, mircea_popescu : it is quite trivial to build a kernel mod with gnat
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you ever used ada ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zx2c4's thing ? nope, notyet
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: this isn't v per se tho, it is a graphical viewer for same
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 is this constant time ecc implementation on display somewhere btw ? i don't think i ever saw one before.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: the distinguishability of keepalives also makes it considerably easier to carry out timing attack on your nonconstanttime ecc engine
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 suppose he is sending keepalives, what.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: speaking in general of symmetric ciphers -- a known-plaintext instance anywhere in the stream, or even a means of narrowing down possible plaintext, makes for considerably cheaper break
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 here's a simple alternative to consider : would you agree the assemblage would be more secure if instead of sending a null payload you sent a random string ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: it would appear that you have a known-plaintext though
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 the fundamental problem with "set to empty" is that ciphers can be and many are vulnerable to this, as a particular case of "known plaintext"
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 for the public record, make the "this is not the case" distinction plain.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: generally you will say !!up to deedbot in pm
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you can voice yourself (permanently) by saying !!up to deedbot ; saves us the trouble.
(trilema) deedbot: zx2c4 voiced for 30 minutes.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i understand the bare fact, zx2c4 . my question is, why do you think the protocol author permitted an unsecured mode as a valid mode of operation ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: granted, but it would appear that the orig spec of 'noise' permits null-ciphering, just like the nsa-authored ssl/tls.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 don't break up your sentences in multi lines, we read everything anyway.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:36 zx2c4: - minimal state machine, as mentioned above, which means 1-RTT: if something goes wrong with a message being dropped, the solution is always to just "start over the protocol", since it's only 1-RTT. this saves amazing amounts of complexity
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: do i misread ? because in the spec, 'No confidentiality. This payload is sent in cleartext.' ( http://www.noiseprotocol.org/noise.html#message-format section 7.4 )
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:28 zx2c4: sure
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: are you the author of 'noise' protocol ?
(trilema) asciilifeform has 1 more q for zx2c4 , after mircea_popescu finishes
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 mind that transfers are not instantaneous.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: which you can withdraw using deedbot at your leisure
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: he just threw a whole bitcoin into your piggy.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: they're for mircea_popescu to decrypt; it makes the command go.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 you understand how the logs work btw ?
(trilema) mircea_popescu: !!rate zx2c4 1 j. a. donenfeld, wireguard guy.
(trilema) deedbot: AB9942E6D4A4CFC3412620A749FC7012A5DE03AE registered as zx2c4.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 the tls fails i bet.
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: i'ma leave the rest of the session to mircea_popescu , owner of this chan, and my co-author in e.g. the FUCKGOATS auditable trng, https://archive.is/CGQkR )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: zx2c4 do me a favour and !!register your key
(trilema) mircea_popescu: o hey there zx2c4
(trilema) asciilifeform: zx2c4: so it is not possible currently for me to learn , which cryptographers reviewed, and what they had said ?

|