mircea_popescu: spyked re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html#fn4 : the "wrong cut" i'm affraid is the baked-in expectation that you (the impersonal you) might "choose" among "versions" of something as fundamental as the db system, somewhere as late in the flow of things as the userland.
auctionbot: Buy order # 1009: 2k wFF Heard: 499.99mn from mats. Ending: 2018-12-07 06:34:14.465343 UTC (83 hours 37 mins)
mircea_popescu: frankly stated this is patent idiocy, the decision of whether eg driving on right or on left can not possibly come AFTER one has decided whether they want to go out to pub or disco.
mircea_popescu: so no, there's no such thing as "i want mysql and he wants postgres" possible, there has to be an "use this db system for these reasons" much further upstream.
mircea_popescu: this doesn't jive with the current situation, true, but it's in the sense of "healthy domestic relationships do not jive with usg.familycourt nonsense" / "good health dun work with cancer cells present" and so on.
mircea_popescu: we're stuck with paper bridges between pantsuit alt-reality and the construction of republican sanity, which have to be expensively (if temporarily) maintained. the management of the leaking insanity will be a major function of the lordship and overal brain sink going forward, because obviously a bevy of "patch-this-for-that" could at least in principle overburden V conceptually to the point of failure.
mircea_popescu: (if at every node there's multiple tree splits, "here's logbot with mysql, here's logbot with postgres, here's logbot with flatfile, then there's ircbot with mysql, ircbot with..." and so on, the point of even having V is lost, the expense of maintaining the chaos rapidly exceeds the benefits of not living in chaos, and we're right back at "only way to do versioning is github". because yes, for idiots, the sort of disorganise
mircea_popescu: d minds that produce the sort of crap one finds on github, indeed github's the necessary manner and only way.)
mircea_popescu: that said, yes there's evidently a mysql-vs-postrgres holy war in the brewing here. but i don't think that boil's baked enough for lancing just yet.
mircea_popescu: sad fact of the matter is, mysql works extremely well for one edge of what we do (witness http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872279 ) while postgres works extremely well for another edge of what we do (witness http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861669 ).
a111: Logged on 2018-11-15 02:09 BingoBoingo: On the plus size, I did learn that using MyISAM instead of Innodb actual RAM available on the Rockchip for not MySQL
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 03:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
mircea_popescu: i suspect some work on trying mp-wp in a postgres environment would be quite beneficial at this juncture, even.
mircea_popescu: even though, of course, alf will just want to bake own db.
mircea_popescu: not avoidable task anyway, we're stuck pretty much writing a fs anyway, eventually. however, the former is how we build to the latter, so.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878206 << awareness of the letter ʃ / esh would be a great boon, considering it's causing the majority of transliteration errors.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 00:58 asciilifeform: i dun expect these will ever be OCR'd, hand-typesetted-cum-diagrams newtonola is possibly a bridge too far for ocr.
mircea_popescu: (kinda interesting thing, too -- getting rid of the long s type happened in the middle of that century, and people seem to have regarded it as a sort of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-06#912088 )
a111: Logged on 2014-11-06 01:48 asciilifeform: there's also a school of thought where 'notation is worth 80 iq points' and roman numerals are deservingly gone from mathematics
trinque: spyked: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/E7cUE/?raw=true << feedz
mircea_popescu: lobbes : "<auctionbot> B#1009 O=500mn LB=499.99mn E=2018-12-07 06:34:14.465343 (78h34) >>> 2k wFF <auctionbot> --- end of auction list, 499.99mn total bids ---" << wtf did you do!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878217 << observe that the nominal idea behind sql -- 'pluggable, standardized db' -- has failed. sorta like 'unix philosophy'.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 06:56 mircea_popescu: so no, there's no such thing as "i want mysql and he wants postgres" possible, there has to be an "use this db system for these reasons" much further upstream.
asciilifeform: ( and yes it is possible to write certain proggies such that they work with 'any sql db' -- sort how it is also possible to write a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875332 . but in the general case -- failed )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-27 18:40 asciilifeform: phf: interestingly, http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=51 is example of useful (if you will) proggy written 100% in standard cl
mircea_popescu: it's not exactly clear to me yet what the situation is. it's altogether possible postgres may be rescuable through a process similar to how "peculiar linux candidate packaging sterilized into cuntoo".
mircea_popescu: it's also possible that we simply end up gutting ye olde lamp stack, replacing the dna and keeping the capsid.
mircea_popescu: or other things. this pit will be open for years.
asciilifeform: it's a pretty deep pit.
mircea_popescu: lamp was, in strict historical terms, the ~only~ linux success.
asciilifeform: for the 'cockroaches after ww3' def of success.
mircea_popescu: all other "technology" wank, from wikipedia to social media to what have you, "anti-nonfree-internet civil society movement" rests on it and naught else.
asciilifeform: aha, but typically features http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, i'm not arguing correctness, i'm arguing environment fitness. much like "man is the ~only~ biology success". not intended to mean man's a defensible design.
asciilifeform: it's a 'success' in exactly same way as x86.
asciilifeform: wb Mocky !
Mocky: thx asciilifeform
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878229 << i could be the only one, but the old-school 'integral sign' s never bothered me. devil knows , there's even worse fonts on the web-o'shit today
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 07:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878206 << awareness of the letter ʃ / esh would be a great boon, considering it's causing the majority of transliteration errors.
asciilifeform: Mocky: how goes the salt mine search ?
Mocky: It's coming along, I'm toughening up. I have a couple dozen new recruiter emails this morning and I only want vodka before I start answering and not hollow point so progress!
Mocky: Expecting to get phone interviews with labcorp and lexis nexis scheduled soon, along with a bunch of unknowns
Mocky: I feel lost tho, 2 days behind in the logs, no idea what's going on :D
Mocky: damn, 3 days actually. I think I lost a day somewhere
Mocky: also i still need to finish baking these last 7 Qatar blog posts I wrote up
asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform's 35th today
Mocky: happy birthday!
asciilifeform: ty Mocky
asciilifeform: ( oblig : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876229 )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
Mocky: enjoy it, 35 is a man's prime. I ought to know, I'm in my second decade of being 35!
asciilifeform: lol i thought 25 was prime
Mocky: hell no, 25yo boy has a donkey in his head that won't stop kicking
BingoBoingo: Feliz cumpleaños a alf!
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo .
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878219 << I will say over the past couple weeks the time spent log re-reading recent logs has had to go up
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 06:59 mircea_popescu: we're stuck with paper bridges between pantsuit alt-reality and the construction of republican sanity, which have to be expensively (if temporarily) maintained. the management of the leaking insanity will be a major function of the lordship and overal brain sink going forward, because obviously a bevy of "patch-this-for-that" could at least in principle overburden V conceptually to the point of failure.
asciilifeform: speaking of oldl0gz, re: the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878220 thing , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851362 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-19#1873687
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 07:01 mircea_popescu: (if at every node there's multiple tree splits, "here's logbot with mysql, here's logbot with postgres, here's logbot with flatfile, then there's ircbot with mysql, ircbot with..." and so on, the point of even having V is lost, the expense of maintaining the chaos rapidly exceeds the benefits of not living in chaos, and we're right back at "only way to do versioning is github". because yes, for idiots, the sort of disorganise
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 18:22 asciilifeform: this is the other thing, 'changes are expensive' promote imho a sane view of software, where you actually try to perma-stabilize yer proggy, rather than to keep up the classic 'open sores' eternal cauldron of bubbling liquishit
a111: Logged on 2018-11-19 23:11 asciilifeform: the fact that it feels to noobs like 'unnatural acrobatics' is an artifact of writer suddenly having to pay that actual cost of the complexity inflicted on reader. and yes folx whined, just like in ex-ussr folx whined when they started having to pay for mains current .
asciilifeform: as often is the case, the answr to 'doctor, it hurts when i do that' is 'don't do that'
asciilifeform: also must add that, on a machine having the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=231 property, 99+% of the use cases for 'db' disappear
asciilifeform: (i.e. you use whatever data structure you like in memory, and it gets 'persisted' to nonvolatile storage as part of sane iron functioning)
asciilifeform: ~if~ yer pushing the very limits of what's physically possible on your iron, as in e.g. phuctor -- THEN is the time to massage/hyperoptimize. not otherwise.
asciilifeform: in almost all extant proggies, 'db' and 'filesystem' are ~both~ 'tv rafts' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 )
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
asciilifeform: i.e. ugly hacks around the idiocies of the machine arch, where ram is 1) laughably small 2) dies when power cut 3) poorly impedance-matched with persistent storage 4) persisted 'in software' rather than as reliable function of the iron, resulting in (2)
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i am considering to actually buy the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877988 artifact ; cuz i've come to the conclusion that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 experiment pretty much requires access to a working unit. otherwise asciilifeform risks a repeat of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624964 nonsense
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 16:48 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf loox like dks is selling another! 'ivory' on lulzbay >> https://archive.is/Bkm8E
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 16:26 phf: asciilifeform: before you agree to a decap, give me some more time to get you the docs, maybe they'll be enough to get things going. i'd hate to lose an ivory to get some pretty but useless pictures, i'd rather it fry on a breadboard in the process of directed discovery
a111: Logged on 2017-03-11 00:14 asciilifeform: phf, incidentally, do you know that i blew MONTHS, if you add it up, possibly most of a year of life, sawing open 'snap4' genera in ida ?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: sadly they aint getting any cheaper..
asciilifeform: pretty painful proposition, to pick up a $5k board simply to read off the GALs and xray the pcb. but unless somebody has one to lend for the purpose, i dun see how that dig will ever move beyond 'i have these here 2 ic's' without access to orig ivory pcb.
asciilifeform: and hah, loox like dks is also selling a https://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-XL401-lisp-workstation-with-Genera-8-3/113419020606 ( phf-style machine ) nao . it is not however fit for the experiment, much moar complex board ( given as it's a standalone box )
asciilifeform: 'ivory' board, however ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875835 ) is moar or less exactly the correct item, it's a minimal set of support logic for the chip, and piggybacks on ancient 1980s crapple ( box that's been reversed nine ways to pluto and 100% emulatable today ) for i/o
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 19:41 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i did finally turn up a high-res (enuff to read the ic labels) shot of ivory2; http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ivory2.jpg << mirrored.
asciilifeform: and so happens that i've dug up the src for the supporting proggy that talked to it, 5 or so yrs ago
asciilifeform: currently i see the chance that somebody will lend asciilifeform a unit for 'hey lemme pull and waltz the GALs and i'ma give it back to you, will try not to zap it' as pretty slim.
asciilifeform: ( prolly oughta extend http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878295 with : 'it's on the piratebay iso' , lest anyone mutter 'whisperers' )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 17:25 asciilifeform: and so happens that i've dug up the src for the supporting proggy that talked to it, 5 or so yrs ago
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in the local language: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/cuando-concha-dejo-de-ser-un-pan-dulce-y-se-convirtio-en-una-mala-palabra-2018124102320
asciilifeform: lol BingoBoingo , remember when 'cock' was a bird ?
BingoBoingo: And now cockfights are porn
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: incidentally, in world of ru prison, even worse , 'петух' (cock [bird]) came to refer to d00d who's been lowered into pederasty, resulting in even mention of having at one point eaten chicken being quasi-taboo
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877390 appears to work 100%, no turds in modqueue, fullstop
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 20:04 asciilifeform enhanced the spam trap a little bit
asciilifeform: what it loox like, is that the derps were willing to make N numeric guesses for q#1, and that occasionally fired. but for q#2, none
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878233 <-- ty trinque! processing them atm and will notify you when feedbot is ready to fire up
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 07:24 trinque: spyked: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/E7cUE/?raw=true << feedz
trinque: sounds good
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in entomology dept, bukovsky ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877898 ) on 'coke machine' >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qSL5l/?raw=true
a111: Logged on 2018-12-02 20:01 asciilifeform raged. hence prepared microscope slide with the thing in formaldehyde, for if anyone ever walks in bukovsky to link..
asciilifeform: 'The story was very typical. The famous Roifman who was at the center of the first of the “textile trials” also kept his mouth shut, so that not even the snoopers could talk him round. Then he was summoned to see Semichastny, head of the KGB, and Malyarov, the Deputy Public Prosecutor, who gave him their sincere Party word that he wouldn’t be shot if he gave up his riches. Roifman believed them, handed in his valuables—and
asciilifeform: was shot. There were many ridiculous aspects to this form of bargaining. Underground millionaires are reluctant to part with their accumulated riches, but they don’t want to lose their lives either, so they start giving up their gold bit by bit, swearing each time that this installment is the last. But the investigators and the snoopers are perfectly well aware that there is more to come, and they keep up the pressure. “Listen,
asciilifeform: ” they tell him, “the October holidays will soon be here, the anniversary of the Revolution. Give us a bit more for the anniversary and they’ll probably lop a couple more years off.” So he hands in his gold in installments—some for November 7, some for May 1, then for Constitution Day, and maybe even for March 8 (Women’s Day). The investigator gets his bonuses, the snoopers early release, and the millionaire—a bullet.'
spyked: trinque, done. standing by to launch bot, on your signal.
trinque: spyked: stopped the service on my end
spyked: all done. all feeds should be now delivered from the feedbot end. if someone doesn't get theirs delivered, pl0x to poke me.
spyked: next step will be to get this + some of the code it depends on (namely, xml+rss parsers) published.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878058 << what i thought also.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 22:24 bvt: lobbes: i am also interested in learning which gnat version/type and vtools leaf was used, and seeing strace output; i thought this error can happen only on adacore gnat >=2017 with a strict libc (which rejects 3-character template)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878081 << which new voice model is this then ?
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 23:30 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878032 << I actually ended up getting a logbot_command_router-based self-voicing thing working (auctionbot uses it), but it uses the interface-with-gpg method instead of the stash-of-OTP method, and considering we may be moving to a new voice model anyways I did not publish (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1851087)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878262 << o hey, happy bday.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 16:25 asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform's 35th today
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878268 << that's mp's fetlife female cutoff lol. NOT same thing at all.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 16:28 asciilifeform: lol i thought 25 was prime
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878282 << from prime principles this view is quite defensible.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 16:54 asciilifeform: in almost all extant proggies, 'db' and 'filesystem' are ~both~ 'tv rafts' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 )
asciilifeform: aha, writing files / db queries really can be seen as elaborate ritual where you sacrifice to moloch and beg the iron to prettypleeez not lose yer bits when cord pulled
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878296 << i don't expect that's gonna happen.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 17:34 asciilifeform: currently i see the chance that somebody will lend asciilifeform a unit for 'hey lemme pull and waltz the GALs and i'ma give it back to you, will try not to zap it' as pretty slim.
asciilifeform: ( i dun even know anybody who ~has~ 1 )
asciilifeform: over the yrs, i've written to a number of folx who have the thing, some 'collectors' , some 'museums' that keep the thing under glass and away from the gold recycling people. but 0 replies. ( tbf, wot problem, they can't readily distinguish asciilifeform from gold recyclers etc )
asciilifeform not terribly astonished that museum doesn't bother to reply to 'hey whydontcha lemme borrow your kohinoor diamond for a spell'
asciilifeform: ( oblig vintage trilema : http://trilema.com/2013/me-aged-5/ )
diana_coman: happy birthday asciilifeform !
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman !
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/denmark-working-hard-to-move-criminal-migrants-out-of-denmark/ << Qntra -- Denmark Working Hard To Move Criminal Migrants Out Of Denmark
asciilifeform: 'Negotiations ongoing regarding outsourcing to prison in Lithuania' << bahahaha loox like the nato gulag in ro must be full nao
asciilifeform: 'The prison won’t have to measure up to Danish standards either. “I’m sure they [the criminals] would rather serve in a Danish prison, but there needs to be room for many others,” Preben Bang Henriksen, the spokesperson for Venstre party on judicial issues, told DR Nyheder.' << mega-outsource biz idea!11
asciilifeform: ( iirc in 1990s ru actually suggested this biz model to eu, but for some mysterious reason the latter balked )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, in 1990's Merkel hadn't flooded the EU yet with Petrus-kin
mircea_popescu: nah, just expensive.
asciilifeform: convenient, that there aint a solzhenitsin writing a 'gitmo archipelag'
mircea_popescu: who's left in the reich that can write ?
asciilifeform: not an alt-pantsuit alt-stockholm to give'im an obummernobel
mircea_popescu: witness http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878186 ; morons can't even fucking COPY worth a shit anymore.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 00:35 asciilifeform: lol terrifyingly rotten ocr
mircea_popescu: worse performance than 1018.
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, happy birthday!
asciilifeform: ty mod6
mod6: hanbot: glad to hear you're on the mend.
mod6: just stopped by for some salutations.
mod6 bbl, meat
lobbes: salutations mod6 (and belated happy bday asciilifeform / happy recovery hanbot)
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878321 << ftr this was indeed an adacore gnat >=2017 (see thread), though I'm not sure about the libc.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 20:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878058 << what i thought also.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878323 << y'know, the thread link was in the line you quoted :D. but anyways, here's the top of that thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850999
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 20:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878081 << which new voice model is this then ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 19:38 mircea_popescu: trinque tbh i was thinking of revising the voice model altogether, in favour of a voice-or-kick model.
lobbes: unrelatedly mircea_popescu do you care if spyked's rss bot takes over in #eulora? lobbesbot's RSS-tron has always been buggy and is 100% heathen atm. Imo makes sense to just transition to spyked if he is okay with it
phf: asciilifeform: happy birthday!
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 6 days, 6 hours, and 9 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i did finally turn up a high-res (enuff to read the ic labels) shot of ivory2; http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ivory2.jpg << mirrored.
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 6 days, 6 hours, and 6 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> turns out i was wrong re the rom, the rom-shaped object is actually a 1980s 'programmable event timer' thingie, am2971adc
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 day, 9 hours, and 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> loox like dks is selling another! 'ivory' on lulzbay >> https://archive.is/Bkm8E
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 8 hours and 40 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i am considering to actually buy the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877988 artifact ; cuz i've come to the conclusion that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 experiment pretty much requires access to a working unit. otherwise asciilifeform risks a repeat of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624964 nonsense
asciilifeform: ty , phf , lobbes , et al
phf: also i'm alive and on the other end, will soon return to regular scheduled programming
asciilifeform: congrats phf
asciilifeform: moscow flat ?
phf: signing the lease today
phf: it's all about that escape velocity
phf: re ivory i think we had a thread about macivory being much easier to reverse, since it's all isolated, but you will still have to spend time (re?)learning the gnarly details of apple bus, and whatever adhoc protocol is used to communicate with host. going by an xl might not be a worse option
asciilifeform: phf: funnily enuff, i did the gnarl of the bus already, during (aborted) proj for dks where he asked 'make me a replacement crapple mem expander board for nubus'
asciilifeform: back in '10
phf: that explains why he remembers you by name
asciilifeform: he did?!
asciilifeform: lemme guess, 'that d00d who was gonna make mem board but returned nil' ? lol
asciilifeform: tho i suppose could also be cuz asciilifeform successfully persuaded the salt mine he toiled in at the time, to buy alpha+genera, paying dks's rent for month or 2
phf: it's more of a mental rolodex of 5 guys who are not in their 70s who are or were actively working with anything at all symbolics. he also knows the ones in their 70s, but those, except for reiner joswig, rarely come up, since they are, at this point, the kind of people who boot their symbolics, if they still have one, once in 5 years to remember the glory days
asciilifeform: i have vaguely positive memory of the fella, minus the part where he answr'd 100% of asciilifeform's attempts to buy sumthing moar than iron, in same way as mcdonalds clerk might react to attempt to buy the mcdonalds
asciilifeform: chances are, i was Doing It Wrong, but still dun have a concrete idea of exactly how.
asciilifeform: 'you can get all the sandwich you brought the green for, but 0 recipe'
asciilifeform: it was like trying to buy cocacola recipe from coke vending machine.
asciilifeform: ( but i'll stop with the analogy before i ruin errybody's appetite )
phf: heh, i like that last analogy
asciilifeform: ( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863774 )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-19 01:04 asciilifeform: amberglint: when i went to his house 10y ago, offered to him to make fpga-ized 'ivory' , 'pro bono', if he'd only cough up with what. answr was approx 'can't , unless my master permits, and he wouldn't'
asciilifeform: phf: re adhoc protocol, it's laid out pretty well, surprisingly, in genera/distribution/sys/embedding/macivory/interface-support ( on the magic iso )
asciilifeform: how to reset board, throw in boot rom ( it dun have own rom ) , start/stop cpu , peek/poke, etc
phf: asciilifeform: ah ty, i was mostly making a "bright side" argument, since we do have an xl1201
asciilifeform: pretty sure there's custom bolix ic other than ivory in xl
asciilifeform: which multiplies the cost of the effort to the point of utter riotousness
asciilifeform: ( and even if not, coupla dozen times moar GALs and misc. period exotica )
phf: re dks and fpga, i'm also not sure that he has enough data, or if he even knows if he has enough, or if the "master" in question has enough. i'm starting to suspect that the reason nothing's moving forward is because it's an intellectual bezel, a cat that's alive only until observed
asciilifeform: ( whereas i'm pretty sure that i have datashit for erry single item on ivory3 board other than the cpu itself )
phf: i regret not buying a macivory at discount when i had a chance, it also would've been easy to take to russia with me
asciilifeform: they're 'portable', yes, in the sense that there's no particular need to transport the crapple 'quadra', can always get from junkyard on-site
asciilifeform: phf: did you actually pack that xl ?! thing weighs, what, 50kg?
phf: nah, left it at the office. at least there's enough wiring in place to do remote x11 (though i haven't tried yet, have people in place to flip switches, but not necessarily to reseat the boards)
phf: i was thinking though of moving it out of the ridiculous steel enclosure, that might make it a touch more transportable
asciilifeform: i like how they used to make workstation case from 5mm steel
asciilifeform: always looked for , but never found, pc chassis like that.
asciilifeform: 'if piano falls, yer $100k box has a chance', i suppose the thinking went
mircea_popescu: lobbes ah damn, yeah, right you are.
asciilifeform: phf: at the risk of repeating , i dun really buy the 'they lost errything' hypothesis. e.g. as late as '98, the docs req'd to bake the alpha-based emulator, evidently existed
asciilifeform: ~somebody~ is sitting on it.
mircea_popescu: lobbes i see no problem whatsoever with rssbot taking over eulora.
phf: asciilifeform: a lot of things happened since 98 though, that predates a couple of particularly gnaly fire sales. also alpha based emulation is "easy" to do from first principles for an experienced symbolics professional, you need an instruction list, some understanding of the architecture and a the sources for the os.
phf: you have hobbyists building emulators with much less to go by
asciilifeform: phf: the 'understanding of the arch' is the sticking point
asciilifeform: it's documented (aside from the gibblets seen in the logs) exactly nowhere.
phf: right, which is where somebody like kalman come in
phf: the hypothesis though is not "they lost everything", it's rather that they all have a handful of what they were told were gold chests by people who can actually recognize gold. when poking at contents stuff seems vaguely gold like, so they hold to it hoping to cash it in, never really "having time" to go to an appraiser.
phf: it's possible that one of those boxes actually have gold in it, but the handful that i opened had _mostly_ garbage
a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 22:50 asciilifeform: there's also the 'is it really ~the~ tapes' aspect. as in the old thing with the gold bars that nobody wants to drill for tungsten. consider for instance how nikola tesla was able to live in the waldorf for years, with the loan collateral being a trunk containing 'great invention of much dangerous power'. when died, turned out to contain a whetstone bridge.
phf: i concede that there might be a faint within a faint, but i can't Munchhausen my way out of that one: i kind of have to assume that my perception of reality somewhat corresponds to reality, rather than a bunch of people playing elaborate games with me
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-05#1878425 << tbh i find this rather persuasive.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 02:24 phf: the hypothesis though is not "they lost everything", it's rather that they all have a handful of what they were told were gold chests by people who can actually recognize gold. when poking at contents stuff seems vaguely gold like, so they hold to it hoping to cash it in, never really "having time" to go to an appraiser.
mircea_popescu: it's also precisely how tech gets lost.
asciilifeform: phf, mircea_popescu : whether orig src/ns masks/etc lost or not, i dun expect ever to ~see~'em. hence 'reverse with available iron' being the only approach that has chance of working.
mircea_popescu: scholar-pre-gap : "so what if rat ate cable, trivial to replace" ; custodian : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710182 ; scholar-post-gap : "holy shit wtf!!"
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 21:26 mircea_popescu: now this man... he had a set of 9V lightbulbs. and so as any good respectable citizen i sat down with the dead man's dragon pile, to TEST everythiung I got. yes ?
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. will go for ride, bbl.
asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu revving up zundapp with mg sidecar
asciilifeform: i suspect that cr is a++ zundapp country
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/YgtWB << subj, in its natural state
asciilifeform also bbl.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-05#1878419 << roger that. spyked: if you're cool with taking over #eulora rss let me know and we can work out a transition
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 02:16 mircea_popescu: lobbes i see no problem whatsoever with rssbot taking over eulora.
mircea_popescu: nah. they don't even really have vespas here. just shitty toyotas