deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/no-such-labs-snsa-june-2018-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), June 2018 Statement
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when's the ffa restart btw ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in monkey see, monkey gets fucked lulz, https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/dating-columnist-reveals-how-sex-and-the-city-ruined-her-life/
mircea_popescu: choice bits, "Last year, I ended a two-year relationship with a man who ultimately couldnt commit and wanted to be polyamorous." ie "i was somewhere mid-dial on the phone of some dude with some money, who eventually had enough of my airs and stopped returning calls".
mircea_popescu: "These days I work as a change activist, mounting summits for world leaders and serving as an adviser to startups and entrepreneurs looking to better the planet. "
mircea_popescu: ie, "if you're fucktarded enough to think this worn out borderline sleeve is going to pronounce you a ~world leader~, it'll cost you fiddy bux or w/e"
BingoBoingo: Ah, that's Randi Zuckerburg's old bestie
BingoBoingo: *ole bessie
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831734 << launches today ! ( making a few edits atm )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 05:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when's the ffa restart btw ?
asciilifeform: lol i actually somehow missed http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831514 . hey spyked , lemme know when these are ready to eat, they will go in same day.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-03 09:51 spyked: anyways, I am working on putting the ssh keys in the proper format and preparing the full report, there's some extra lulz to be extracted from this experience.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in heathendom, in re the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-30#1830910 lulzfest, https://archive.fo/0AQo0 >> 'what happens when a bunch of people without even first year maths try to write a specification without understanding how to define representations. Technically the representation model is entirely non-normative because it's logically circular.'
a111: Logged on 2018-06-30 13:45 phf: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479 "C Is Not a Low-level Language: Your computer is not a fast PDP-11."
asciilifeform: 'A friend, learning C, asked me for help in understand the results of some such expression as a = (b++) + ((b++) + (b++)) It emerged that one could run this on different compilers, even on the same machine, and get about as many results as one tried different compilers...' etc
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/07/facebook-censors-us-declaration-of-independence-as-hate-speech/ << Qntra - Facebook Censors US Declaration Of Independence As "Hate Speech"
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trilema oldies, http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo some "important" "success story" etcetera from the swamp. because memory hole in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 an' http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-10#1047258
a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
a111: Logged on 2015-03-10 01:54 mircea_popescu: goes with my "Remember the inept newsweek goon, Leah McGrath Goodman ? The chick with the mortgage she can't pay on her own ? Like that other chick, like each and every other chick in this quagmire of chickdom ?
asciilifeform: oh hah whatever happened, incidentally, to leah #xxxxx.. ?
asciilifeform: ( 'adonis xiii' !111 )
mircea_popescu: very much in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-14#795515 : NONE, and i mean it : not a single FUCKING ONE of these "government-sponsored oligarchs" have a penny to their name. every single one "powerful" of the democracy-socialism, be they a senator, a general, a "famous person", a "journalist", WHATHEVER they may be, made out, at all. not like bandits, not like anythings, they're as poor as church mice.
a111: Logged on 2014-08-14 01:43 mircea_popescu: this theory that redditards have like... different personalities. what do you people do in the intimacy of your own house, name goldfish ?
mircea_popescu: EXACTLY mirroring the undemocratic-socialism creation of "bussinessmen" through "corruption" and "stealing from the government" -- which is to say EXACTLY the same process run by EXACTLY the same people the exact same way.
mircea_popescu: zero difference between russian product of the socialist state pretending to wealth and mark-leah cuban-goodman whatever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. the exact same "has happened" to her as to this other one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly minor diff, but the occasional orc oligarch does manage to move some dough offshore and live kakobrekla-style in some zimbabwestan island for yrs
mircea_popescu: precisely same as to the "surprised by wealth" moron. sitting somewhere in a peculiar hovel hoping people from the internet will come anf fix his ac.
asciilifeform: ( afaik the nato variants, seldom manage this )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik kakobrekla was living off his dad's money, at all points in his life.
mircea_popescu: all variants, from sierra leone to canada, manage this, and always have.
asciilifeform: i've nfi, but the 700+ coinz prolly helped neh
mircea_popescu: because he's a fucktard, specifically.
mircea_popescu: it'd have helped... his dad.
mircea_popescu: some people -- can not be helped.
asciilifeform: dragonfly can run on 2 joules / day, for all i know 700btc can run 700yrs of kako
mircea_popescu: eh, he bought some bs midmarket car, 2014s style.
mircea_popescu: then got butthurt that his perceived importance no longer matches his actual importance, and why should it be his fault. then got clever about it. whatever.
mircea_popescu: kinda how the film snaps for all these "fellow travellers" or w/e you'd call them, "herd of independent minds", "reasonable people with reservations", "skeptical but objective observer of own life", whatever socially-acceptable wrappers on narcissism.
mircea_popescu: first it kinda looks like a) it really is a film everyone wants to watch and b) they're in the main cast!!!
mircea_popescu: c) then it changes, as it always does ; and d) they try an' fix it.
mircea_popescu: goethe told it bette.
asciilifeform: speaking of, did mircea_popescu ever watch the ancient silent film of faust ?
asciilifeform: i saw a pretty great showing of it once, complete with pipe organist accompaniment
asciilifeform: re 'surprised by wealth folx', asciilifeform was somewhat astonished to discover that esr's infamous 'open sores ups project' features not a 'make own heavy industrial ups to run for 3 days' but instead... clone of one of those laughably miniature things they sell at konsoomer kompooter shops, 'run for 3min so you can shitdown'
asciilifeform: dafuq, one might naively ask, is the point, of such a thing.
mircea_popescu: windows support.
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's personal history with sad iron, the alpha and omega of the weakness of konsoomer ups, is that it features no way to handle the devil in the details of plugging in gigantic array of battery ( they tend to have minimal or nonexistent inverter cooling, and melt down long before your bank of boat batteries or whichever, runs out )
mircea_popescu: anyway, they exist to foul up the world. fucking obviously "open source ups" is a basement full of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-20#1803817 as pluriously discussed in the logs
a111: Logged on 2018-04-20 18:33 mircea_popescu: the numbers are worth the mention : if you get 500 old truck/high power car batteries, literally, and you put them in 4 lines (gets about 49 - 50V or so), you now have somewhere in the range of 500 * AT LEAST 50 Ah in your hands. that's 25 KWh for the more common measure.
mircea_popescu: well... shed full of ~ ; basement full of iron
asciilifeform: ( btw this kind of thing has some interesting implications: iron that runs in pulse duty cycle can handle unspeakable wattage for so long as the pulse is short. consider typical example, photographer's xenon flash lamp, if you wanted same light in a sustained 100% cycle, you need a 10kg projector rather than 10g flash thingie. or targeting laser for tank, easily 50w , but pocket-sized. )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where's the discussion re the dc and its Fe- batts ?
asciilifeform: ( when asciilifeform was running number for a -- so far, paper-only , gedankenexperiment -- shortwave gossipd station, realized that the traditional outlandish bulk of 1000+w shortwave transmitter, is unnecessary if you only care to transmit millisecond bursts a couple times per hr ; can have fairly compact and inexpensive item, not normally seen in 'heavy' pirate radio experience )
mircea_popescu: anyway, you wouldn't use consumer "tech" for any serious purpose. make a god damned inverter, out of one of those solar power bs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the edison battery thread aha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'make own ups' is a sort of peculiar joke, surplus datacentre ups are just short of a dime a dozen
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo this is not even the wrong way ; will not only significantly cheapen our end, but ~all of the enemy hardware will ahve to be replaced, at capital costs far exceeding its current capacities (projected to diminish in the future as they may be)
mircea_popescu: current gear can't deal with pulse piracy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even kgb at its golden age more or less threw in the towel in face of pulsed pirate
asciilifeform: it is extraordinarily difficult to get even rough triangulation for pulsed station, esp when there are ~several~ going. ( iirc we had the thread )
asciilifeform: my gedanken-schematic contemplated an ~unattended~ relay. ( approx. briefcase-sized, not counting the aerial )
asciilifeform: pulsed tx means you can get away with not only small energy supply (e.g. konsoomer photovoltaic + capacitor) but thin, inexpensive aerial wires, smallish transistor in the amp ( vs the thumb-sized monsters seen in traditional radio design ), and so on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "make own" is always a good idea ; i train new slavegirls in cooking even though i got more star-able cooks here than any restaurant ever afforded.
asciilifeform: always good idea once.
asciilifeform: there is only so much that can be learned from paper.
mircea_popescu: there are things which ~must~ be learned, in order to permit learning in principle. nobody learns arithmetic because the world's desperate for more 9yo accountants.
mircea_popescu: but yes.
mircea_popescu: in any case, power is an important aspect of de-kulakizing the empire.
asciilifeform: study of electronics in particular requires some 'magic smoke', in all cases.
asciilifeform: folx who learned from paper and simulators, tend to end up in a sad corner when time to actually build something.
mircea_popescu: you recall those "build your own radio, or blinkelinghten lamp" things from ye olden days ?
mircea_popescu: not found anymore, though i suppose "buy computer parts make desktop" cvasi-acceptable substitute.
asciilifeform: in particular true for radio work, where the 'lumped' (see maxwell thread) approximation taught in uni, is actually a mere toy approximation of physical reality
asciilifeform: imho 'buy boards, make desktop' is not particularly educational in current-day, aside from the abstract teaching of 'yes, the parts are interchangeable, yes you can work a screwdriver' kindergarten curriculum
mircea_popescu: very fucking educational.
mircea_popescu: are you aware about 2/3 of the fuckage female population does not own a computer ?
mircea_popescu: are you aware the third that does and the two thirds that don't contain the EXACT SDAME PERCENT of seld-diagnosed smarts, intelligence etcetera ?
mircea_popescu: do you know they literally lack the werewithal, as 20something yos, supposedly capable of employment and child rearing, to a) identify the problem ; b) identify the solution ; c) put boards into a mobo and hook it all up ?
mircea_popescu: the saeculum produces girls unqualified to be niggers.
asciilifeform: bonsaikittens aha.
trinque: the sad creatures aren't being given anything to do, which would prompt the "ah shit, I don't even own a proper pair of underwear^W^W^Wcomputer"
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov, it is however ~too many~ meatsacks who own comp (or at least think they do) rather than too few
mircea_popescu: you know that about 1/3 of responsens my bot gets come as "what ?" which generally gets ignored, and generally forms during the day in the more literate complaint of "i can't read the subject line", often with culprit-identification bolted on the side : "~IT~ cuts it off". what the fuyck is this "it" ?
mircea_popescu: invariably the retort comes as "sucks to be on the phone, huh", for which they are utterly unprepared. notwithstanding six-figure "education debt" in each to the last one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 100% of meatsacks on the internet should own comp.
asciilifeform: ( picture a 'alt-history' where it came to be that 2/3 of population owned a particle accelerator (let's say, for sterilization of even moar outlandishly-gangrenous usa.beef than presently sold . ) picture the pestilential 'omfg i am eating what! isotope?!' complaints
mircea_popescu: if they're online they'd better fucking own the machinery.
asciilifeform: in fact, this sorta happened, recall the early crt tv and its xray killzone
mircea_popescu: i have no problem with http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ ; aftert all i came up with it. but i have a problem with halfway measures towards it.
asciilifeform: there may not be quite enuff chechens in natolandia for anyffing better than halfmeasure, atm
mircea_popescu: so then, they'd better own computers.
asciilifeform: sorta why asciilifeform sank 100litres of sweat into the armlappy thing.
asciilifeform: btw in addition to mircea_popescu's earlier observation, it aint a total loss also in that asciilifeform can bake a neutered replacement rom more or less immediately if the key is ever popped.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828397 -> ben_vulpes, mod6, BingoBoingo what's the status on this?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 19:02 mircea_popescu: mod6 a) why not just sell it to pizarro and b) it's really no rush, end of the month's fine.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc ben_vulpes's last gasp, prior to disappearing into his unfortunate sabbatical, was to ship disks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's still conceivable we'll eventually give enough of a shit to perfect a chip lifting process.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's nice, but what do we do ?
asciilifeform: !Q later tell BingoBoingo plz lemme know if you have the tracking info
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu fwiw kid also got a basic set of electronic components and a board to stick them onto + booklet with ~100 basic circuits and he's been having a blast with it although I'd say he still has a way to go to fully grasp what he's doing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mod6 appreciate the situation here : 1. customer walks in. this is a MAJOR item for a company that apparently lost its only candidate manager over the inability to organize a sales mechanism, whereby doesn't have to wait for customer to walk in.
mircea_popescu: 2. customer gives ~2 week early warning, and then the mark comes and goes, and customer doesn't have what he wanted.
mircea_popescu: now what do i do, do i wait ? how do i know i'm not waiting for an infinite loop ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman are these ics ? or ye olde resistors capacitors etc ?
diana_coman: resistors, capacitors, a led
mircea_popescu: not bad! i wouldn't care whether he consciously understands what he's doing. that's not really how the brain works, at that age. he learned to speak without understanding what the fuck he was doing also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if no answer from ben_vulpes in day or 2, i'ma have to ctrl-C that loop and take over reactor controls, and ask mod6 to make good on his offer to sell his spare ssd's, currently kept in the bilge, to pizarro, and then give the signal to BingoBoingo to install it in diana_coman's auxiliary box.
diana_coman: aha; (though I must say: next time anyone says kids learn languages "easily" I'll punch them on the spot)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman subjectively easily. for the obvious reason : because they perceive no alternative.
asciilifeform: it is however my current understanding that diana_coman wants a trinque cuntoo install. this means that trinque gotta give the signal and supply with what to install -- and ideally prior to going on his vacation.
mircea_popescu: the role of the belt/whip with adults is exactly same -- to remove the false perception of alternative.
mircea_popescu: for those that can't do this in software.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought he had published the thing
mircea_popescu: am i confused ?!
trinque: asciilifeform: that's not happening, there's still plenty of work to be done.
diana_coman: eh, ~anyone stuck in a similar situation would learn it quite as fast; and that "easily" means mum talking like crazy all the time, lol
trinque: mircea_popescu: I published a build script that upstream subsequently trashed, abandoned gcc versions, and all the rest.
mircea_popescu: trinque so wait, how do i follow your cuntoo in production ? or shouldn't ?
mircea_popescu: i thought you had published something recently, like a week or so.
diana_coman: trinque, my understanding was that you can release something that can be installed currently (although not final version)?
trinque: this build script was to have a gentoo which uses musl, and uses patched ebuilds from the libressl and musl overlays.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: as i understand there are exactly two variants : 1) waitloop on trinque to declare his item as ready for battlefield test 2) asciilifeform bakes an exact clone of existing s.mg gentoo ( really, dulap-iii's gentoo )
asciilifeform: trinque: i thought you've successfully seceded from upstream gentoo (i.e. baked own ports tree mirror etc )
asciilifeform: or is this still in the works.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828010 <- this; my understanding is that it would still give a musltronic system, right?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 14:35 trinque: diana_coman: I have updated the script you last tried, such that it again works. What I have not completed is the v-tree which is to replace imperial portage.
mircea_popescu: trinque aha so basically the situation here is, 1. you did an ablated gentoo last year, which was more vanilla ; 2. meanwhile it was discovered no longer builds, because imperial shitstack can't be a foundation for anything but the cockroaches ; 3. since ave1 work meshes well with older asciilifeform work we've updated the cuntoo target for a full musl integration, and this will come but 4. prolly later this year ?
trinque: this is correct; I've been fighting a war against upstream and reposessing items since the original build script. this process is close but not done.
mircea_popescu: so then the correct decision here is to clone the gentoo.
asciilifeform: btw asciilifeform muchly appreciates trinque's sweat, last yr asciilifeform was quite certain of having to do all of this with own hands.
mircea_popescu: we'll have yet another flip flop later when we move to the musl.
mircea_popescu: not the end of the world i guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a second devil potentially in the details -- not knowing much re eulora particulars, asciilifeform does not know whether it will actually build 100% musltronically
mircea_popescu: kinda what we're trying to find out.
asciilifeform: ( the gpg-derived coad -- will. but as for the rest, i do not know )
mircea_popescu: diana_coman has been tickling it for the past 2-6 weeks.
asciilifeform: this is actually testable on diana_coman's existing box, all it requires is to set up ( as i understand, diana_coman already has ) ave1's gcc toolchain , in user homedir
mircea_popescu: afaik that passes. diana_coman did it ?
asciilifeform: this will not interfere with the operation of the production proggy
diana_coman: asciilifeform, uhm, but how about the deps?
diana_coman: e.g mysql
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if this were my system, i'd build'em rotor-style ( using existing rotor script, add e.g. mysql to the deps set )
asciilifeform: this will reveal where, if anywhere, your orchestra breaks on musl
diana_coman: myeah, but what is there to gain from that instead of simply building it on cuntoo directly?
diana_coman: on musltronic system?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: strictly in that we do not yet have an operating musltronic cuntoo.
asciilifeform: if, as appears to be the case, the latter is far from battlefield deployment, it may be worth .
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> afaik that passes. diana_coman did it ? <- yes for eulora-server code itself
asciilifeform: i will help but strictly if mircea_popescu specifically asks, given as he had asciilifeform swear not to meddle in euloristic matters.
mircea_popescu asked for a box!
diana_coman: asciilifeform, we are atm trying to not waste effort, not really adding *more* effort into it
diana_coman: I do appreciate both your offer and your other work
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 17:19 asciilifeform: !Q later tell BingoBoingo plz lemme know if you have the tracking info
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: Sent 15 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plz lemme know if you have the tracking info
asciilifeform: diana_coman: as i understand, it would not be a wasted effort , given as if a musl-incompatibility is revealed , diana_coman can go straight to patching it, working in parallel with trinque's finishing touches on cuntoo
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the point remains, though. given that apparently we both misread the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828010 line, it may actually be entirely spurious to get a box and build on it.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 14:35 trinque: diana_coman: I have updated the script you last tried, such that it again works. What I have not completed is the v-tree which is to replace imperial portage.
asciilifeform: however if no such incompatibility is found, then yes, it doesn't win anyffing over 'wait for cuntoo' scenario.
mircea_popescu: trinque so what was it ? premature excitement, does not in fact work ?
asciilifeform: trinque: is there a chance you can supply us with a 'pre-release' cuntoo ?
asciilifeform: with no warranties etc
trinque: one sec, received a phone call. brb.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, he doesn't want to have to support that and i don't want to use unsupported release.
trinque: I was saying the script (which is now a bootstrapper) can be used to produce a usable system (which is not cuntoo, but gentoo), and I think it's reasonable not to want to use that.
mircea_popescu: because if i do and something breaks, i have no way to extract value out of the foregoing effort. what will i do, trilema article about "here should be some words nobody knows how they'd go" ?
mircea_popescu: trinque ok, but it's not musl.
asciilifeform: iirc i explained this in an earlier thread, but it is not possible to test selectively-musltronic e.g. mysql installed ~systemwide~ on a conventional glibc box
asciilifeform: the only way to muslate on a conventional (glibc) box, is via the rotor method.
trinque: mircea_popescu: it is musl; it is just not using a v-tree of ebuilds for its portage
trinque: nor using ave1's gcc
trinque: I am not persuading the bootstrap script be used
mircea_popescu: trinque ok, help me understand this. so you have a script that a) works, in the sense of bootloading a b) gentoo which is musl-compiled but c) doesn't have a proper v tree.
mircea_popescu: so if i use it, the resulting system will in fact permit my testing of a whole set of musl-compiled deps, system wide, such as mysql and whatever other libs eulora pulls.
diana_coman: from the other side: why would rotor-style be a better option than using trinque's script above?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you mean other than because it dun require pizarro provision a box ?
diana_coman: right; yes, indeed
asciilifeform: the gain is strictly that it can be done 100% homedir-locally.
asciilifeform: (on a conventional box.)
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo (mod6, asciilifeform): http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DPsAP/?raw=true ssd tracking number
trinque: mircea_popescu: you get a fully musltronic gentoo out of the bootstrapper which will be useful for exactly that purpose
asciilifeform: oh hey
asciilifeform: ty ben_vulpes
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: ty
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's in this crate ? 4 disks ?
mircea_popescu: trinque ok so then why wouldn't i use it ? would you rather not have it tested or i don't get it ? idea here was to put the item into work see what comes out.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 5 evo 860 1tb disks
asciilifeform: danke schon, ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: bitte
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-7-5#393729 << http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-6-21#384989
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-07-05 17:02 mircea_popescu: 2. customer gives ~2 week early warning, and then the mark comes and goes, and customer doesn't have what he wanted.
asciilifeform: hmm bot choked on the 2nd link ?
ben_vulpes: i was under the impression that you wanted to wait for a machine that you could cut eulora server over to in toto
mircea_popescu: i dunno why ; cuz i said the idea is to ~test a musl process~ ; without hosing the machine currently running it.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-21 19:03 ben_vulpes: end of july for the whole package
ben_vulpes: my mistake, then.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i , possibly mistakenly, wait()'d on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828294 signal.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 17:43 diana_coman: so then it would seem this is the best available option currently: asciilifeform can I have trinque's cuntoo on that machine when it's available?
mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-6-20#383755 << item of interest
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-20 16:30 mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
BingoBoingo: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-6-1#385827 << There's a box powered on inside the rack with two fuckgoats, one raid card, one disk, and a KVM plugged in for this purpose
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-22 23:12 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: KVM is plugged in. Raid card, disk, and two FUCKGOATS installed
mircea_popescu: the "a full gnat musl thing" portion seems to be satisfied by trinque 's currently published bootloader.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: aha. asciilifeform did this machine ever get engentooated?
mircea_popescu: at least as best i can discern.
asciilifeform: trinque: plox to clarify re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831920 . what would be involved in bolting it on ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 17:38 trinque: nor using ave1's gcc
asciilifeform: as i understand, diana_coman's system calls for the troo 'single gcc' toolchain, i.e. ave1's
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: nope, i haven't touched it since receiving http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828294 signal
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 17:43 diana_coman: so then it would seem this is the best available option currently: asciilifeform can I have trinque's cuntoo on that machine when it's available?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you are aware that the only means of testing a musltronic build of your proggy + deps on a conventional (glibc) box, is the rotor method, yes
mircea_popescu: why does this have anything to do with anything ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lemme find the thread, 1s
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 12:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827977 << 're-emerge' seems to imply systemwide ? you're more or less guaranteed a borked box, muslism has to be done either rotor-style (i.e. 100% user-local build of 1 proggy at a time) or systemwide ( trinque's cuntoo ), on account of the impossibility of cleanly linking glibc libs to musl proggy or vice versa
diana_coman: asciilifeform, trinque's script is basically proto-cuntoo as far as I understand it; and it will result in a mulstronic system so why are we talking of a glibc box?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i was referencing the 'let's stand up clone of dulap' variant, strictly.
mircea_popescu: look, the bootloader thing is either musl or isn't. if it isn't, i expect trinque wants to hear about it ; whether he wants to or not i still want it said.
asciilifeform: if trinque has a pre-alpha cuntoo for us, by all means let's fire away, and test
mircea_popescu: and if it is, it is, and forget about all this nonsense that's already sunk an hour of time pointlessly.
asciilifeform: trinque: can haz ?
asciilifeform: i'd like to fill mircea_popescu's order asap.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I get it: clone of dulap is pointless because it requires rotor-style which can be equally done on existing server; but we are talking of having a box with trinque's musltronic proto-cuntoo
asciilifeform: then we're on same page.
trinque is rerunning the current bootstrapper and will hand same to asciilifeform if/when completes successfully
phf: gentoo out of the box turned out to have all kinds of interesting surprises (i haven't ran gentoo in years, so it was interesting to see the holes through which the darkness comes). like the foo-9999999.ebuilds that just pull from the mystery github repos without any kind of checksumming
asciilifeform: trinque: is your item packaged roughly similarly to my rockchip thing ? (i.e. a tarball that i can unpack onto an empty ext4 , and jump into ) ?
mircea_popescu: phf ikr
phf: asciilifeform: his is a vpatch
trinque: no. not yet, he's getting a tarball signed
asciilifeform: aa ok
asciilifeform: phf: indeed there were a great many ports without even a heathen gpg sig
asciilifeform: afaik almost all had a sha2 baked into the port def tho
asciilifeform: ( fwiw )
mircea_popescu: or a md5
asciilifeform: i dun recall seeing md5 lulz but wouldn't rule it out
phf: well, yes, you have all the tarbas/ebuilds have a blake in manifest, but there's no equivalent for a git repo. those are just pulled
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo btw, here's an idea : suppose someone from pizarro were to contact ~all the "sexuality cultural war" websites out there, "feminists" "mra" whatever, and proposed pizarro sponsorship ?
asciilifeform: phf: if you have a handy list of these lulz in your notes, plox to post
mircea_popescu: way the fuck better than trying to "buy ads" on sites that try to sell them.
mircea_popescu: "if stuck in africa, stick to fucking virgins" or how did it go.
asciilifeform: this is smart. and iirc BingoBoingo has his fiber nao and is ready for battlefield.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: try lafonde & co too, while at it
mircea_popescu: all of them, whatevers.
asciilifeform: the fascists, the communists, whoever.
mircea_popescu: most people are too shy to talk to girls ; be the girl that talks to them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not like imperial ideology is meaningful in any sense anyway. might as well.
asciilifeform: there's a whole bunch of weev types who aren't aware that anyffing like pizarro is even possible. somebody, somewhere, among'em, possibly isn't entirely tard
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo btw, here's an idea : suppose someone from pizarro were to contact ~all the "sexuality cultural war" websites out there, "feminists" "mra" whatever, and proposed pizarro sponsorship ? << I'd actually been warming up some old accounts on these forums to do exactly this sort of thing.
BingoBoingo: But yes, selling webhosting to culture warriors seems riper than selling web hosting to people on web hosting forums
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo understand, i don't even necessarily mean "sell webhosting". don't open a conversation by a pitch in any case anyway.
mircea_popescu: no, i mean sponsorship. remember when i sponsored the what was it, 8chan maybe ?
BingoBoingo: Ah,yes. Polite approaches, making friends
mircea_popescu: expect a whole lot of http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/ of course ; but then again bear in mind sifting through the refuse pile of "western man" goes exactly like it goes : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831817
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 17:02 mircea_popescu: are you aware the third that does and the two thirds that don't contain the EXACT SDAME PERCENT of seld-diagnosed smarts, intelligence etcetera ?
BingoBoingo: Sure, incredibly common. I suspect the whole reason "crowdfunding" gets pumped is to encourage that sort of idiocy
BingoBoingo: Inca has to keep telling all the children they are special well into their 70's
mircea_popescu: tournament markets, what happens to capitalism once the sons of unbeaten mothers in monogamous arrangements grow up.
mircea_popescu: aaand major tropical storm / hurricane incoming.
mircea_popescu: free connectivity testing!
BingoBoingo: And battery testing!
mircea_popescu: and horse floating testing!
BingoBoingo: And motorcycle swim tests!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831795 << piling on to this thread ftr : ~fiddybux buys you a device that can eat, 24/7, the entire 30MHz or so usable sw spectrum, and search for whatever. pulsers can then transmit short luby slices of $block pretty much wherever in said spectrum , at various times, even regardless of ionospheric season; a % of these will get eaten by $receiver, and slowly reconstitute a valid parcel.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 16:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo this is not even the wrong way ; will not only significantly cheapen our end, but ~all of the enemy hardware will ahve to be replaced, at capital costs far exceeding its current capacities (projected to diminish in the future as they may be)
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831979 << indeed, none of these are making it into the final cut
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 18:02 phf: gentoo out of the box turned out to have all kinds of interesting surprises (i haven't ran gentoo in years, so it was interesting to see the holes through which the darkness comes). like the foo-9999999.ebuilds that just pull from the mystery github repos without any kind of checksumming
trinque: (none ought be in the bootstrapper either, as I think they're all masked, though not by any hard protocol)
trinque: asciilifeform: happen to have a recommended SDR?
asciilifeform: trinque: battlefield version of the hypothetical device would need a purpose-baked (fpga) sdr. but for experiment, could use e.g. 'hackrf' ( i have it, but hesitate to recommend it to others, it comes with a massive ball of open sores rubbish, really wants an ab initio driver , ars longa, etc )
asciilifeform: the ubiquitous realtek sdr dongle is unfortunately wholly worthless for shortwave work
asciilifeform: ( i tried the chinese-made 'downconverters' to bring it into the necessary band, thus far none worked worth a sparrow's fart )
asciilifeform: the most economical receive-only station would prolly still consist of the realtek + a (working) downconverter.
asciilifeform: re the 'unattended relay' concept, the gnarliest sticking point is the need for a rsatron that can verify a 4096b signature in a few msec, and while running on battery/photocell, not with whole comp
mircea_popescu: downconverting is a much stickier issue than meets the eye
asciilifeform: the holy grail would be to stuff this into a fpga. however ice40 isn't even remotely bigenuff.
asciilifeform: in principle, this here would be one of the rare cases where baking an asic would be a massive win (in that there's not much of a practical alternative)
asciilifeform: if device made for unit cost of e.g. 1 $, enemy can then enjoy going bankrupt spending 5k to find each one in the woods.
mircea_popescu: in principle.
asciilifeform: a larger and expensive version of the item could be built conceivably with off-the-shelf iron, all it'd take is a bit of courage, can plug it in wherever one happens to have access to unguarded mains socket plus a window to string the aerial from.
asciilifeform: box, incidentally, doesn't need to know anyffing re particulars of gossip protocol; simply verify(4096b) luby packets, rejecting old nonces, reassemble into block, and then retransmit until a newer block is assembled, then repeat ad infinitum.
asciilifeform: ( using 1 or more hardwired pubkey )
asciilifeform: while imho this is not a 'let's do this right nao' scheme, it is prolly the Right Thing in re 'trb-i' block propagation. no moar 'block withholding' nonsense. no reason why trbi should not own ionosphere the same way mircea_popescu projected bitcoin will 'own' mains current generation capacity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i misspoke re 'downconverter' for realtek, really it was ~up~converter ( realtek intake starts at 100MHz or so)
asciilifeform: but yes, tricky
mircea_popescu: kawaiiwhore little red tab right next to this one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform certainly.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in peculiar difraction phenomena, https://78.media.tumblr.com/ef0f6b77e8b26bbb1819ff2eb451f3e0/tumblr_n8mvg1JFHi1tgimpio1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember back when "self evident" was a thing ? legitimately, was an actual thing.
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, i don't fucking remember having to explain anyone how to use webirc in 1998.
asciilifeform: aa but you weren't training circus seals in '98 wereya.
mircea_popescu: i wasn't ?
mircea_popescu: same thing as now, really.
asciilifeform: i dunno, were you?
asciilifeform: hm then.
mircea_popescu: "things that crawled out of their mother's cunt, stuck around long enough to grow a cunt of their own, and tits to go with it"
mircea_popescu: yep, same exact thing then as now.
asciilifeform: then nfi, perhaps backthen sov schooling and father's army belt did some of the work prior to getting'em into your circus.
mircea_popescu: or maybe the ~COST~ of diversity is stupidity.
mircea_popescu: because back then, yes less diveristy, and consequently, also more obviousness.
asciilifeform: the cost of stupidity always includes moar-stupidity-later, yes
asciilifeform: and just how many webirc scrips are there.
mircea_popescu: somehow this never figures in the blather (also called "conversation" in-universe) : that the COST for "being inclusive to left handed people" is that a) all tools now must come with manual indicating whether left or right handed item and b) it's ambiguous, when going for a tool, which hand to go with.
mircea_popescu: "oh, but this means 7% of kids don't get their shit beat out of them regularly ages 6-9 for THIS reason"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence the old-time su (or, for that matter current-day jp) solution: There Will Not Be Lefthanders. Period.
asciilifeform: reportedly to this very day NOTHING in jp comes in left-hand -- not desks, not toilets, not rifles in their miniature army, nuffin.
mircea_popescu: very much like "preventing ~other people~ from smoking means 7% of the taxpayers don't die early from cancer they got ~in this manner~, so they either find some other abortion mechanism or else even worse news, they get to pass on their shitgenes)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are some very strong arguments available for intolerance.
mircea_popescu: starting with obama.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik it is quite difficult to smoke to death early enuff to keep from reproducing ( possibly i'm missing some detail )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends for whom.
asciilifeform: ( re 'intolerances', see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-14#1482737 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774181 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779522 , elsewhere. )
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 14:25 asciilifeform: did we ever do a 'postel's law not only considered harmful but a disaster of epic proportions, quite comparable to leaded petrol' thread ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 16:40 asciilifeform: gnat has a deliberately brittle behaviour re the restriction pragmas -- if you use one it doesn't know about, it barfs. ( and i'm not even convinced that this is wrong. half of the appeal of ada is that it takes 'postel's law', rips off its head, and fucks the stump )
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:23 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die.
mircea_popescu: but what we got for the "diverse, inclusive internet" is the move from the "sov schooling & father's army belt" 1980s where ~all kids understood most basic things naturally~ through a period of "confusion" and into this situation of smartphone and food delivery, where ~all kids understand nothing useful~.
asciilifeform: 'diverse, inclusive' has ~massive~ cost, that somebody ends up paying.
asciilifeform: with interest.
mircea_popescu: it'd have been a fuckhell of a lot better to NOT liberalize it, and for the effort we'd still have a bunch of sad faggots crying in the corner, AND ALSO a natural and universally confirmed expectation 20something housewife-to-be can work webirc by herself on first encounter.
mircea_popescu: i care about how "the world was briefly better for X insignificant minority" like i care about flea pageants.
asciilifeform: more often than not, the joke's on the insignificant minority folx.
asciilifeform: ( who do not actually get lifted to wherever level, but instead grow a set of unreasonable expectations and rage moar than before )
mircea_popescu: ie, exactly what's going on now.
mircea_popescu: what the "gay community" got out of the mess is that it's actually even MORE difficult for gay man to find a partner today than it was in 1980.
asciilifeform: re gui-ism, naggum had a pretty good discussion re the resulting psychopatholigies, i cannot possibly top it
mircea_popescu: can find a bunch of "i can't believe it's not butter"s, but...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: exactly like with damn near errything else.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-27 23:41 asciilifeform: generally -- the industrialist saw the artisan as a headache, and killed him. nao we get to 'enjoy' the fruits of de-artisan'ed industry.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't remind me, i am $1000 dollars into the adventure of finding underwear for myself.
asciilifeform: sounds exactly liek the shoes thread etc
mircea_popescu: fucking worthless "industry" of superficial painted paper.
asciilifeform: i'd almost expect at this point mircea_popescu would have his pets learn to sew.
mircea_popescu: they're so god damned useful, these pointless morons, i have an assembly line of stripper-phds running all over to find the most banal of items.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform handsewn underwear, so help me. this is how stuff like mormonism endures, ftr.
asciilifeform: btw if anyone ever in usa met chix born in past three,4 decades that know what sewing even is -- do post.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform sews own, i shit thee not, buttons.
BingoBoingo: I have met
mircea_popescu: yes it's fundamentally stupid ; but superficially sane. and in a world that's fucking stupid throughout, the "i don't give a shit what they started with, they have x y z working processes" is quite tempting.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: where ? mormonistan ?
mircea_popescu: fwiw, proper size beach towel had to be crafted, "not available" from "retailers" of "industry"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You gotta look for the girls that grew up in places where "4H" is a thing
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the agronomist society ?!
mircea_popescu: and SAME fucking thing with bath robes. you have your choice of a) plastic, imported from miami or b) chinese notion of fluffed cotton, looks like insane asylum ware, WITH SHORT SLEEVES
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, they teach the girls to raise livestock and fix their clothing
mircea_popescu: who and in what cloud of toxic smoke came up with short sleeved bathrobes ?!
asciilifeform: i've yet to see shortsleeve bathrobe lol
mircea_popescu: yet EVERY shop in this cowtown HAS IT. same exact item. everywhere. pretentious malls, built for no reason, "expensive" "brand" shops, offering... the same exact nothings.
asciilifeform: mine loox sorta like old-style kimono, the kind to seppuku in, and is prolly 20yo at this point
mircea_popescu: yeah well, i like inch-thick cotton stuff.
asciilifeform: aha, it
asciilifeform: i think it's from back home.
mircea_popescu: i thought sepukky was silk
asciilifeform: was speaking of the cut, not the fabric
asciilifeform: yes, for proper seppuku attire gotta silk.
mircea_popescu: and yes definitely from "back home", bought it in romania, was unable to replace because spanish speakers are idiots to a man, for the reason that their stupid mothers spoke a stupid language to them.
mircea_popescu: a language dumb enough, by the way, that there's no way to distinguish between "i expect" and "i hope". espera-m-ia-i pula.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform has this recurrent real-life nightmare erry time he has to replace a piece of ancestral tech. most recently, i shit thee not, a pillow
asciilifeform: ( fully 50 y. old, picture this )
asciilifeform: and on subj, not long ago asciilifeform repaired, for relative, ancestral clock, what looked like cheap alarm clock but is actually an enlarged sov copy of ~swiss~ movement , made to 'cosmonaut' specs, believe
asciilifeform: ... these are just about eternal, just needs change of oil erry 3 decades or so
asciilifeform: tell usa victim about su konsoomer ~mechanical~ clock with temperature compensation, ruby bearings, etc., he will assume you've taken lsd.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> a language dumb enough, by the way, that there's no way to distinguish between "i expect" and "i hope". espera-m-ia-i pula. << My eyebrows have been getting an incredible amount of exercise here
asciilifeform: ( what do you own that's worked ~continuously~ for 40+yrs without stopping ? outside of own torso )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1832116 << dun forget 'in'shallah' ( iirc rendered in sp as 'ojala' )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 22:12 mircea_popescu: a language dumb enough, by the way, that there's no way to distinguish between "i expect" and "i hope". espera-m-ia-i pula.
asciilifeform: لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله(tm)(r)!!
asciilifeform idly wonders whether this actually displays on anybody's box but mine
asciilifeform: btw how the fuck does one go about writing r->l orclangs without smudging, i'd like to know.
asciilifeform: afaik they did not like lefthanders any moar than europistan did.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform displays here.
mircea_popescu: https://www.zdnet.com/article/cdt-pulls-the-trigger-on-180solutions-and-cjb-net-for-deceptive-and-unfair-business-practices/ << 2006 piece about item still sending referralspam.
BingoBoingo: !!up epony
deedbot: epony voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: epony: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
epony: I'll have to ask that too.
epony: Can you guess what the answer was?
mircea_popescu: "little whorses" ?
epony: "your mom"
epony: almost there
BingoBoingo: your mom?
epony: cut the crap, what do you want?
mircea_popescu: i guess next time i ban his whole c class. two bit shitheads on two bit shitnet with pooled ips
epony: careful you may ban homeland
epony: now can you answer a question
epony: if it was you who donated..
epony: what did you get in return?
asciilifeform: lol the cheek.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 13:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831734 << launches today ! ( making a few edits atm )
asciilifeform: motherfucking opensores liquishit
mircea_popescu: !#s gnuplot
mircea_popescu: ah i supposed i whined on trilema directly.
asciilifeform: 1 of the things asciilifeform would luvvv to see reimplemented in a nearfyootoor sane scripting lisp
mircea_popescu: and i suspect the "unicode" problem is tightly bound into this.
asciilifeform: how's that ? ( verily it is problem, but how here )
mircea_popescu: the issue of textual->pictographic representation is a lot wider and deeper than what the imbeciles rephrased it as, and proceeded to "solve" in their usual fucktarded manbners.
asciilifeform: aa this muchly yes
asciilifeform: in other definitely-not-noose, turns out chechen has ( sorta like the turkic langs ) an astonishing proliferation of tenses ( e.g. you cannot say 'last night epony was impaled on scimitar', gotta specify a tense that depends on e.g. whether you personally witnessed said edifying act, and whether impaled repeatedly or merely 1 thrust, or... )
mircea_popescu: if you recall, unicode started as "how about we produce replacement for "Box drawings vertical single and right double"
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, is a character you apparently ~can no longer paste~.
mircea_popescu: but cp437-198 ftr.
asciilifeform: hm i thought ansi 'norton' graphics made it in
mircea_popescu: seems not.
mircea_popescu: used to be exactly what alf says, the building blocks of "gui".
asciilifeform: oh forfuxsake
asciilifeform: srsly?! what did they put in its place, urdu ?
asciilifeform: 'where, sir, wouldja like this put!'
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want anyone to be able to make a gui without importing rust-whatever ?
mircea_popescu: who would want that!!!1
asciilifeform: phunphakt -- because of insistence on supporting idjit rendering systems, they let korean ( hangul ) script eat O(N^4) space ! ( i.e. erry possible combo of subglyphs ) apparently.
asciilifeform: because this somehow makes sense.
asciilifeform: ditto, naturally, chinesium ( plenty of cn/jp'kanji' are decomposable into subglyphs, the amt of use made of this fact : 0 )
asciilifeform: http://archive.is/xa79A#selection-4043.0-4055.26 >> 166 A6 Feminine ordinal indicator / 167 A7 Masculine ordinal indicator << where the fuk is this used?!
asciilifeform: 158 9E Peseta sign << lol!!
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/05/settling-into-apartment-life/ << Bingo Blog - Settling Into Apartment Life
mircea_popescu: meanwhile teaching girls to make zwiebelschnitzel. in french chablis, for maximal gains.