deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: epony voiced for 30 minutes.
epony: a person, reading the blog at loper..
epony: not previously known
deedbot: apt-get voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: xdeller_ voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: fitzsim voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal
mircea_popescu: who could have predicted getting a large number of morons that can't figure out ip addressing isn't worth anyone's time ?!?!!?
mircea_popescu: IF NORMAL PEOPLE DIDN'T READ LOPER YOU WOULD NOT BE ACCOMPLISHING YOUR GOAL!!11
mircea_popescu: nah, the problem is that it consists of amstan orcs by mass. they're so enamoured with what the mud-toed grandmother back in rural orcistan thinks about "grandson works at google", they'll defect after the anal rape, maybe.
mircea_popescu: you realise there's still idiots in rural kuban / albania / we keeping in ancient closets receipts from the local MMMs ?
mircea_popescu: same exact fucking thing, we'll have long buried alphabet and they'll still have hidden under dirty mattresses "certificates of achievement"
mircea_popescu: heck, idiots had medals from the tsar long after 1920.
mircea_popescu: last thing normie muppet will do, no matter what, is admit he was a normie muppet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, really ? because last i heard, from tu quoque no less, he... wasn't making payroll.
mircea_popescu: mr "oh i don't wanna work for google to pay 5x in rent what their salary is". or we dun remember that now ?
mircea_popescu: the notion that corpses put disinfo on forums because google pays them to is not unlike the notion idiot chinese teenager spams because the sinospam conspiraci pays him to.
mircea_popescu: they don't need to be paid, that's what an idiot is. who pays the wind to pull down your barn ?
mircea_popescu: "what is mgm, with a patch on the eye on the corner begging for nickles ? they repackage free shit idiots gave them in the hopes of '''making name for selves''' and pretend like they;re in business"
mircea_popescu: that's 100% what the shitstack is ; and i bet you amstan for instance is in shock over there in his silent dounce corner, "omfg, these people are impressed ~negatively~ with my political committments ?!?!?! they despisew me ?!!??! how could this be omfg"
mircea_popescu: and yes, amoeba is staunchly republican. no pantsuit amoeba available.
mircea_popescu: perversity only starts from a certain brainbox cubage onwards.
mircea_popescu: seems more often "orc, who could have been lord, instead sells cigs out of a suitcase".
mircea_popescu: it's not clear to me google much hires your type, unless they're mamies.
mircea_popescu: i'm just going by the stereotype. he dun look like jackie brown, he's not enjoying a +ev situation with usg.whatever.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 02:48 hanbot: ^ phf please to update, apologies for the hassle.
mircea_popescu: phf, looked to me like a regrind (patrch got absorbed)
phf: oh that was the idea, kk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, btw, do you want to see what to my eyes became epitomical "get this to compile with gcc 8.1" code ?
phf: (to clarify for logs, mp-wp patchset now, correctly, has reground mp-wp_genesis only)
phf: it's good. i went up to new paltz (upstate new york) for rock climbing and to see an old friend.
phf: they do have a lot of beautiful land
mircea_popescu: paltz, for the curious, is idish for the german palatinate.
phf: my friend, whose father is a professor of divinity, was eager to inform me that the village was founded by huguenots
phf: of course these days it's just a generic american smalltown
phf: it's a beautiful area, an hour and a half train ride from manhattan along hudson, into the mountains, views of catskills
mircea_popescu: this may even be true. the exact meaning of "huguenot" in the period, much like "protestant" etc, is a lot more diverse than contemporaries (like to) think.
mircea_popescu: but the notion of french huguenots speaking plattdeustch...
mircea_popescu: there's this joke in romania that "if you hear a hungarian speaking foreing languages you're looking at a jew".
mircea_popescu: (plattdeutsch is how you get from pfalz to paltz ; very similar to how idish works... or rather worked, it's pretty much dead.)
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 14:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, btw, do you want to see what to my eyes became epitomical "get this to compile with gcc 8.1" code ?
phf: mircea_popescu: that as always makes a lot of sense. i knew that the original was an area in germany, but i didn't give much further thought to the obvious modification
mircea_popescu: phf, linguistics and phonetics is a major solvent for post-medieval mysteries. in some cases even earlier. a lot hinges on what kind of attic or aeolian or whatever other obscure way to say o and u someone employed.
mircea_popescu: also, pfalz is not per se an area in germany ; it's a bunch of areas. originally [holders of] palatine lands elected the emperor, so it's really akin to saying portland-tmsr and seattle-tmsr. tmsr isn't a plage, it's a designation.
mircea_popescu: in any case it's very much "this is what foss is", a token and an icon.
mircea_popescu: the modern equivalent of those medievally fixed timepieces, compensated, recompensated and re-recompensated until the count of moving parts exceeded the "engineer's" capacity to count.
mircea_popescu: these idiots (project something or the other, i forget) spent ten years to reach this pinnacle ; and the whole time wondering why their ~server~ can't hold more than five or so people connected.
mircea_popescu: THEN they "moved on to unity". because "it's slicker visually".
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: alright. see the topic / read the logs / register a rsa key etc.
mircea_popescu: and in other "only in this country" lulz, i see a dark halfinch long form squrrying under the bottle washer behind the kitchen skin tap. so i'm all, you know if you've ever lived in new york, or buenos aires, or generally a large town, "fuck you, you little bitch" kill! kill! kill! mode.
mircea_popescu: turns out to have been... A FUCKING MOTH. nectar eating night guy.
mircea_popescu: goes right with the "about the size of a... scorpion, with a dangly apendage behind, looking like a ... scorpion tail" girl saw yest... FLYING.
mircea_popescu: oh, also, lest i forget : see alf ? you just don't do the upping correctly, is all.
mircea_popescu: eh, it's not clear it's worth soldering anything to begin with
mircea_popescu: i suppose you just buy a live-in slavegirl to do the job eventually.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 14:45 phf: it's good. i went up to new paltz (upstate new york) for rock climbing and to see an old friend.
mircea_popescu: i mean, it's the same thing, but at least mine got tits.
mircea_popescu: i haven't identified a use for laptop yet besides "dumbphone replacement for aspiring slavegirls".
mircea_popescu: regulators aren't expensive. and nothing wrong with 5v from battery either.
mircea_popescu: but the last thing anyone fucking wants is an even smaller laptop.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, that does NOT need to be part of the computer.
mircea_popescu: have a fucking mechanical gauge, steampunk all the way
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i didn;t mean VOLTMETER. i meant, separate doohickey.
mircea_popescu: heck, some actuallty even have gauge on themselves. i've seen this. it's not expensive or hard to make.
mircea_popescu: could almost go for a 400 x 450 mm laptop chassis, provided it includes a proper sized kbd.
mircea_popescu: Display size: 17.6" × 13.2" = 232.32in² (44.7cm × 33.53cm = 1498.84cm²) at 79.55 PPI, 0.3193mm dot pitch, 6327 PPI² << get a sxga+ in there.
mircea_popescu: something like the ipad retina, but in 45/35 rather than bs 15 x 12 cm they got.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there is such a thing as people with cars and pack animals.
mircea_popescu: and moreover, i think it is important to MAKE THIS A DIFFERENTIATION POINT.
mircea_popescu: "grandfather's sword won't work for you until you get a horse like your grandmother."
ave1: yes, it's the same chip as in the notebook, also cost more (and will be even more with the european import tax added)
ave1: as an aside, I've been readin the google code for the cr50 but I also did not find any obvious holes so far
ave1: the libre computer board is in the pizarro rk? it seems to be 80$ for 4G. This is the same price, for the rockpro64.
ave1: aha, yes I did not try to order the 4g version (also the 2g version is twice as expensive on the german amazon)
ave1: asciilifeform, no I did not get the board, it seems to me a standard pcie x4 slot and cards for these can be easily had locally
deedbot: yesplease voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: bastard0 voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: gribble voiced for 30 minutes.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 6710.85, vol: 7122.16 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 6967.0, vol: 574.76 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 6696.8, vol: 20943.68 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 6696.85, vol: 8004.02 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 6701.4, vol: 3395.15 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 6702.88, vol: 3265.19 | Volume-weighted last average: 6703.53
deedbot: cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
cnomad: your blog post brought me here
cnomad: thanks, no qs at the moment
cnomad: I don;t have any _specific_ qs at the moment, but i do some IC and firmware RE. I don't even know what this channel is about before joining
cnomad: is this a technical channel or a political or...?
cnomad: you guys have a manifesto or something?
cnomad: currently working on liberating a tl866a programmer, but mostly i do RE and pwning for various security chips
cnomad: I knew about it before, and when I did it was curious noone wrote about it then
cnomad: i don't want to develop reputation, just wanna say hi and observe
diana_coman: cnomad, do you specifically want to *not* develop a reputation here ?
cnomad: im a go-with-the-flow kinda guy. rep will naturally follow
diana_coman: cnomad, precisely; just... it needs a recipient to accumulate in; basically how is anyone to say it's same *you* next time you join?
cnomad: ok here's a sha512sum for now, i'll regsiter w/ your bot a bit later
cnomad: 7d3ca5d5e5e09bdc3ebf53017a883e2c10710fe5edf8f46838ff5e6b5bf33e6c031554b959badb9ef8a0bca772a6df2c8e677227143ea46d3f36d28b43e26135
cnomad: so if you question my identity i'll give you the non hashed text
cnomad: how much are you offering for liberating a cr50? fyi, it'll be a _hard_ target
cnomad: if the goal is to liberate it for public use, then it's easier to justify paying less than market rate
cnomad: If someone popped this chip, I'd value it at _least_ 200k USD. we're talking about invasive analysis that requires equipment, weeks of non-stop work, and experience
deedbot: cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
cnomad: especially since this is a generic security chip with potentially more serious applications
cnomad: but if you re-write the firmware, you own the tpm
cnomad: yeah, using a SEM/FIB is the easy way
cnomad: well it could provide some insight into the target
cnomad: well the most likely non-firmware approach would be finding a way to glitch/fault it
cnomad: that would be scalable
cnomad: that being said, these chips are generally hardened against faulting / glitching / DPA attacks
cnomad: from reading around a few months ago, they use a similar IC that's used for smart cards, which implement a lot of hardening measures like dual rail logic, security meshes, and various other hardening measures
cnomad: so this is likely some evolution of that
cnomad: yeah they can be generic. Mass produce them so engineers can use them for TPMs and whatnot
mircea_popescu: "smart" cards are not usually all that hardened in practice.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 18:48 asciilifeform considers idea of proclaiming a 1 btc prize for a working break of cr50 . any l1 folk interested in contributing to the prize chest , and/or overseeing the refereeing ?
cnomad: yeah i know, i was speaking more generally
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:18 cnomad: is this a technical channel or a political or...?
mircea_popescu: the claim to the contrary is a political ploy put forth by the enemies of humanity.
deedbot: cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:32 cnomad: im a go-with-the-flow kinda guy. rep will naturally follow
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the only problem is, i'm paying bitcoin to fix google's crapolade ? this sounds a lot like the soviet-sponsored "criticism of capitalism"
cnomad: oh this chip will get popped someday, it's certainly possible
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:41 asciilifeform: well yes, for public use. with the caveat that we will not be giving the curative pill to google.
mircea_popescu: if it's software and it's found, well... they'll make a firmware upgrade yes.
mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if "the public" has the werewithal to even liberate 500 of them, should a pill be available now.
mircea_popescu: yes, but you're making less than alphabet is from this deal.
mircea_popescu: the idea is to work things so we make more than they do.
mircea_popescu: there wasn't a single noteworthy one in the whole bunch, yes ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, think : paying for tits resulted, before your very eyes, in ever increasing levels of exam taking. yes ? you noticed this, yourself, i said nothing, you complained about it.
mircea_popescu: now you want to pay for cr-whatever. why ? do you expect it'll go any differently ? why ? and so on.
mircea_popescu: "it doesn't cost me anything" is how filthy person ends up with bug infestation, "oh, the jam they eat cost me nothing".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, folks who can think are cordially invited to extract their head out of their ass, stop cohabiting with monkeys, join the republic.
mircea_popescu: if they can't do this, measured as "don't do this", a) the argument they were intelligent is tenuous and b) paying them is exacrtly thr wrong thing to do.
mircea_popescu: ie, a) if indeed this guy exists that'd give tyou whatever for the whatever prize, and b) i know for certain that he wouldn;'t have otherwise, somehow then c) i'll send a gal over to tie him to a post, slice an inch of his abdomen, and slowly roll his inrtestine on a cat scratch pad.
mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced of anything, but i'd rather discuss it than not.
mircea_popescu: certainly consists of list of miserable overgrown avortons whose mothers should be really, really ashamed they waited.
cnomad: curious, you guys speak russian?
mircea_popescu: but if their brain dun work enough for them to get thjemselves interested on their own, then what's your btc gonna do ?
mircea_popescu: it's the ~advertising~ that does something. you understand this, do you ?
mircea_popescu: ok. let's go back to the original tournament market, the hollywood studio.
mircea_popescu: the item where they ship pre-printed cutouts with the silouette of a girl, and a hole for the head, holding a $x mn check, DOES SOMETHING.
mircea_popescu: it does the thing where it's put in front of every soda joint, and before you know it 17 yos are willing to throw their panties at rolling stones and star in cocksucker blues.
mircea_popescu: whereas their mothers were happy to appear in whistler's mother all decked in black.
mircea_popescu: but this is not what you ask. what you ask is, "what does the $x mn do". well ? what does it ?
mircea_popescu: you're not going to reproduce the former by the latter ; just like you're not going to lure my slavegirls away by promising to be "a good sensitive guy with a great sense of humor".
mircea_popescu: howsoever indignant my stepping on their faces in the dungeon may make your tingly sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, and if zeptobars weren't fucked in the head, they'd have a !Z service here.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-13 20:14 zx2c4: i'd be wary of any 'deal' that's different from: 'i'm given money. you're given warm feelings of having helped the internet.'
mircea_popescu: where, of course, "the internet" is really just how he whitewashes satan himself for my benefit\.
mircea_popescu: cuz im supposed to be just as retarded as any other usg-produced neet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i'm just saying, the thing you discuss, with "has costs", works a ~certain~ way. and if you recall how NOPENOPE NOPE!!! kanzure was wrt getting his inept bs in functional shape, you realise that they will NEVER do any work.
mircea_popescu: recall ? "put your pdf reader in a bot" "where are your microscopy shots" etc.
mircea_popescu: where are they ? even fucking today ? a year later, and all the "make mp eat crow" one could conjure up, where is it ?
mircea_popescu: recall the days kakobrekla honestly imagined b-a actually has some sort of future ?
mircea_popescu: they won't work ; and paying them is counter-productive : it encourages them to not work.
mircea_popescu: notion was you working to self-pacify yourself, really.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to cut this : either they do or they don't.
deedbot: cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, consider what the previous bitcoins bought, shall we ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 16:39 a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:30 mircea_popescu: !!pay zx2c4 1
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 20:46 mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 1 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
mircea_popescu: nothing. there's not going to be any work encouragement through payment, because the inca has expertly stuffed this channel full of nonsense on both ends. "Free money" from one "nothing to buy for it" from the other, the zek has no use and no need and consequently no conception of money at all.
mircea_popescu: nevermind the referee. explain the incentive structure.
mircea_popescu: my bet would be, he's working a shitty job in some shitty company and dreams of the day "things will happen".
mircea_popescu: meanwhile nothing's happening, and time goes by, and trinque in the end had a point, no door's open forever.
mircea_popescu: and you know, like shinohai -- if you prod him he'll do some movements, like electrocuted, disembodied frog legs. and if you don't he'll sit. and then wonder why it didn't work out and why he's being so badly persecuted.
mircea_popescu: recall the time i bought that dork a ranked reddit account ? recall the time anything came of it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, if "worked" then where are these things it worked for ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, a tool is worth to the tradesman his life.
mircea_popescu: if he's a tradesman. if he's a kid getting in the way of adults, nothing will EVER be worth anything. not ever, no matter what you do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, and ? they ever won a confrontation with us navy ? they ever won without even needing to confront, like the chinese ?
mircea_popescu: sure. but anyways, to circle back : i'll match. but i also expect exactly nothing to come of it.
mircea_popescu: and somehow, all these inept fucktards sit somewhere "online" on the world wide dweeb, and manage to not notice that "hey, there's some people somewhere , can burn 10s of ks of this shitty green crap just out of boredom. when's the last time our "respectable" "employer" ok'd a $100 expense account ?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: you know, i did this on trilema what ? a dozen times ? two ?
mircea_popescu: recall how it never took less than a year for the fucktarded public to even catch on ?
mircea_popescu: and this is not anglotardation ; at some point a decade ago i actually offered a full scholarship. NOBODY claimed it.
mircea_popescu: "i don't believe in factuality of anything besides usg" is the cheapest brand of shit to eat.
mircea_popescu: as far as i'm concerned, two things remain : republicans and slavegirls.
mircea_popescu: saying "jahveh will clear if sacrifice correct ox" is insanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, nice. like in one hand, and piss in the other...
mircea_popescu: well, you live in dc, send a few girls over to talk to the dweebs.
mircea_popescu: afaik alphabet all lives there, notwisthanding "tech corp" pretense.
mircea_popescu: also, i can say it is extremely unlikely your preliminary "thousands" figure is correct.
douchebag: I've been around, just been busy attending to various issues irl
douchebag: I'm doing well now after a few days
douchebag: Never knew that, I thought they were parasites
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:44 cnomad: If someone popped this chip, I'd value it at _least_ 200k USD. we're talking about invasive analysis that requires equipment, weeks of non-stop work, and experience
mircea_popescu: let's not repeat the mistake that sunk america ; we don't even have an america to sink.
mircea_popescu: douchebag, "parasite" isn't a class. but yes, arachnids.
mircea_popescu: cnomad, outsourcing, rather than buying capital goods.
douchebag: A friend of mine is great w/ hardware hacking, reverse engineering, binary exploitation, firmware exploitation, ect.. He has a ton of equipment, if asciilifeform wants I could have him come in here.
BingoBoingo: <douchebag> It ended up being a spider bite << How sure are you about that? Prolly safest to tent the place and fumigate to be sure.
mircea_popescu: apparently we'll end up having to organize a defanging lab.
douchebag: BingoBoingo: Well, that's what the doctor told me
BingoBoingo: douchebag: Spiders and ticks aren't the only things that bite. Fumigate.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:51 cnomad: well the most likely non-firmware approach would be finding a way to glitch/fault it
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 15:46 asciilifeform: one interesting observation, is that the update mechanism lets you flash in arbitrary crapola into 'rw' section ( it simply won't jump to it if it doesn't pass rsa(sha256(payload)) ) . so theoretically could put a nop sled there, ending with jump into the magic half of unlock routine. and then expose the thing to beta/gamma, and perhaps in a few months it will Do The Right Thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, honestly, i still suspect there's a clean way to flash-in via the factory pads. however...
deedbot: digshadow-c voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: xdeller_ voiced for 30 minutes.
douchebag: asciilifeform: Are you referring to the motor compressor
douchebag: "i hope hes not referring to the fucking motor compressor"
deedbot: cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: it's right next to the johnson rod
mircea_popescu: douchebag, cr50 is, by all appearances, an arm cortex fpga
BingoBoingo: Even then more apt metaphor for the operation would be a drain and fill
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 16:03 asciilifeform: but if can put a $5 fpga in its place, it's a 15 min job.
mircea_popescu: could just put a sane kbd driver in there and whatnot. i don;'t even fucking want google's kbd driver, they can shove it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, can you publish a very large pic of the chip (and margins) only ?
mircea_popescu: ideally 5k px or w/e you can swing. very large very clear.
mircea_popescu: make 100 shots if you have to, just learn how to use the damned sony and get a proper fixed shot
mircea_popescu: sure. but here no need for that, we're trying to match the chip.
douchebag: My buddy said "although they are mostly factory locked"
douchebag: you can put them in an "rma open" config which will allow some communications functionality
douchebag: I didn't even know what a cr50 was 10 minutes ago
douchebag: Sry, been jumping between quite a few different things throughout the day
cnomad: floating an idea... do you folks have a batch of cr50s around that you might be willing to ship?
douchebag: My friend was also wondering who has access to cr50's
cnomad: and if you send 2-3 to me, I can image it for you
cnomad: yeah, for a whole chromebook
mircea_popescu: cnomad, how about you get a key registered, i send you some bitcoin dust, you order yourself a coupla chromebooks and "imagine it for us".
douchebag: My friend says he's going to research it some more. He said he can have a unit by Friday, he thinks it'll be interesting because it probably hasn't had as much attention given to it due to low market share
diana_coman: funny how this hw guy can't even do as much as the girls with tits managed
douchebag: He's not at his computer at the moment
mircea_popescu: so let him get off the girl and get to his computert later.
cnomad: mircea_popescu: ok. I'm not going to get to it within this month, but i'll ping you back for details to give you a die image
cnomad: it prolly will yield some periphery information about the die, similar families / cells that it uses
deedbot: 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF registered as cnomad.
cnomad: there im now on yer watchlist
mircea_popescu: principally it'll yield an opportunity for you to be reconized or how shall we put it.
cnomad: i don't want money, but thanks
mircea_popescu: cnomad, imagine i shipped you some boards, what difference does it make.
mircea_popescu: !!rate cnomad 1 dood either ran off with my boards or else produced an image of some sort ; we don't know the future yet
deedbot: cnomad voiced for 30 minutes.
cnomad: er, more precisely I'm not going to get to it until sometime next month, so I'd rather accept payment then
cnomad: idk deedbat thinks im not registered
mircea_popescu: cnomad, aite, give it a few mins then, maybe not up to date yet
cnomad: its fine. I'll ping you folks when I'm ready to order some chromebooks and do some imaging
cnomad: motivation for me to finish assembling the fumehood
cnomad: i can't say i haven't considered it
deedbot: asciilifeform rated cnomad 1 << says, he's a reverser.
deedbot: fitzsim voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 20:11 asciilifeform: hey phf !
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine we'll have such a deluge of these the clerical work keeping track is worh the hassle
mircea_popescu: "shows to signs" is not a computable string for the phf-machine.
mircea_popescu: you'll end up having to pay like 5 btc for the work involved in this arbitering lol.
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, and if your model is correct, secret waits a month thereby ? what's in a month ?
mircea_popescu: your idea is that "what if i don't have enough time to get to the store after contest is declared" ?
mircea_popescu: imo it's a way better story if it goes "and then google patched with bated breath WITHIN MINUTES"
mircea_popescu: holy shit oxigen line punctured. aite, ima be back in a few, this just became a hazardous environment o.O
a111: Logged on 2017-10-22 14:54 asciilifeform: aaalso why are there signs warning of buried ~oxygen~ pipes !
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: can i get the copyright r ?
trinque: asciilifeform: just register a nick that represents the pot, have folks !!pay that nick
lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> would it be possible to set up a public address that will auto-add to the pot when sent coin to ?
trinque: yep, thing works best if there's always a somebody on the other end, of course.
trinque: no such automatic reader of address balance is currently in the loop. process by which I confirm deposits is unspecified, varies.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:44 asciilifeform: for my purposes, a proper break is when i can load in arbitrary firmware in place of the vendor's.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:50 asciilifeform: i'ma brb, teatime
phf: the discussions after that though are all over the place, and introduce some requirements that i don't think i can arbitrate like "didn't leak the code back to google"
phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
phf: asciilifeform: i see, i'm sorry, but i don't think i can properly be called a referee under these conditions. i can do independent testing for you though, i.e. test against current c101pa, and against one that i purchase at a time you indicate.
trinque: lacks the machines and spare hands, and yes, ass located square in natoreich
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, in between the tank and the valve, fucking bullshit hecho en mexico nonsense.
mircea_popescu: wtf is this world coming to. i just vented a few m3 into the biodiversidad
mircea_popescu: "oh it dun do anything, it's just oxigen" "sure. until the day it does something, then you'll really see a show"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, fwi, "No word from oil insiders on interest in the shambling cryptographic provenance solutions still in search of a problem to solve and customers to buy it; but this has not deterred Team Cockchain ("Smokin' it!" ®) from announcing eleventeen different projects to disrupt this massive industry from its mother's basement." makes 0 sense to me.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824464 << in perhaps better formulation, the very point of having arbiter is so as to avoid exam taking ; the whole point of having "written contract" (import here pizarro's coc, import here the "opposable instrument" thread with trinque, etc) is to permit exam taking. these are contrary design constraints.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
mircea_popescu: but i'm not doing it, am i ? i dunno how i'd do it ; i'm also not against exercising the doing it muscle, but commetary is part and parcel of the exercising.
mircea_popescu: note however that practice is alligned : when you protested (essentially) that the tits thing is being exam-took, i ignored it, specifically because... it was specified!
mircea_popescu: gotta pick what you pick ; and as per the common sense notion, if your job isn't a good fit for any tool, your job's not a well defined job.
mircea_popescu: so far it's not altogether clear what specifically other dood's to do.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:16 asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 23:39 asciilifeform: phf: you will test using your c101pa. and so you will need the debug snake, i will need to put the output of sysinfo , ver , brd , etc cr50 console commands into the statement.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:06 asciilifeform: phf: correct, full overwrite of whole 256kB fw space with arbitrary bits . repeatably.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 asciilifeform: after $time , phf goes and buys, from amazon, a c101pa , and administers the pill. if it is cured just the same as his current one, the other half of prize is to be awarded.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824502 << right. it's also not a good idea for an arbiter to sign someone else's exam, as if it's anything but. i've offered to run the proposed experiments without arbitrating, but that's not what ascii wants.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:30 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824464 << in perhaps better formulation, the very point of having arbiter is so as to avoid exam taking ; the whole point of having "written contract" (import here pizarro's coc, import here the "opposable instrument" thread with trinque, etc) is to permit exam taking. these are contrary design constraints.
mircea_popescu: by now they cost more in storage than they cost to acquire, even though patriotic republicans' have been eating the cost for us.
mircea_popescu: in general. but converting the general to practically actionable bits is usually the challenge.
phf: asciilifeform: i'm up for a job of contest arbiter, i don't think that what you're proposing is arbitration. i thought that you're going to give goals, and it's up to me to evaluate if the goals have been achieved. but you want me to merely verify your procedure. that's fine, but that doesn't make me an arbitrator.
mircea_popescu: i think i have one right here. from ~period. it's a workhorse, sure, and it paid for itself many times over, but...
mircea_popescu: i bet you i could, if i wanted to. there's plenty of old crap here.
mircea_popescu: well like it or not, it's old crap. the thinkpad sitting sadly on a chair is...like 2gb ram and a fucking pentium
mircea_popescu: i think you conflate economics and coolness. for one thing, an original trinitron bought the year sony came out with them was like 5k ? or some shit like that. for the other thing, 1k from 1988 is like 10-15k today. so... i don't see the $100k price tag that'd merely cover inflation.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the same money put in bitcoin went from $2 to whatever the fuck.
mircea_popescu: kim kardashian also routinely changes hands for price of ~lawnmower ; doesn't mean she's any good. they just like having their picture taken with her.
mircea_popescu: but back to it : i see the value in taking a magic marker to the outside track of google's "drm". i do not see the value in your hairebrained scheme to make a business out of it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the value here is "lol @google", not "oh, ima sell 500 laptops for 0.01 btc profit per".
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 21:02 asciilifeform: it isn't even wholly about the machines, from asciilifeform's pov, asciilifeform would like to see the enemy bleed some, hear the laments , see the mules driven before him, etc
mircea_popescu: well, say they were 500 heh ? SINCE IT WAS YOUR NUMBER
mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
mircea_popescu: it's perfectly possible google just fixed it on their own. and now you want phf to decide this somehow ? fucking how ?
mircea_popescu: and you imagine complicated injustice is better than just a shrug and a pat on the ass ?
mircea_popescu: yes, but the key to communication, which is what you do when you try to engage others, is that you step outside of what you have need for, and speak of something ~they~ can relate to.
mircea_popescu: you may have no need, but putative player has no way to control wtf will hapen in a month.
mircea_popescu: well, to me this seems a much larger risk than the possible insolvency of alf.
mircea_popescu: seems to me that if the one is looking to eat out of his work, he'll likely not even know you exist. because the sort of people dumb enough to depend on their daily labour for their sustenance while at the same time smart enough to reverse engineer are a very narrowly defined set. one is guaranteedly pantsuit.
mircea_popescu: whereas if he knows about you, it seems altogether unlikely he'd even consider talking to google about it, and for the same reasons.
mircea_popescu: so... i can't imagine the problem you're trying tro approach even exists, which is why i can't come up with a way to solve it.
mircea_popescu: well looky, i'm not trying to ruin your fun here, but if yo uwant me to try an follow along ima try as best i can. so far, it's not taking me far.
mircea_popescu: it's not even dumb, it's like a pcb with a large hole in the middle.
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: asciilifeform: my thinking is that your goals ("didn't leak to google") ought to be separate from the testing procedures ("can buy from amazon in a month"). some of your goals are potentially untestable and it's up to whoever's doing independent verification to come up with the procedure for testing, or dismiss the goal as untestable. then up to you to either find a different arbiter, or agree not to pursue one of the goals. i think that providing both
phf: goals and procedures inadvertently put the arbiter in the position of affirming that the goal has been or been not achieved but without following own procedures. in other words you want me to potentially call that the source has been leaked to google, but rely on a procedure that i can't possibly consider adequate for the verification.
phf: mircea_popescu: _procedure_ is testable, but it doesn't necessarily verify the _goal_ (following my adhoc terminology above)
phf: err asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: consider this : i set up a tent at porcfest, advertising "mp slavegirl intake". and there is sure enough a lengthy line of bikini clad beauties before it. i also put slavegirl in tent, and instruct her to reject the ugly ones. ugliness is "mechanically testably alf 3.o" defined as "lacks third tit". end of day, my slavegirl's pretty downcast.
mircea_popescu: "what the fuck is your problem ?" "i just spent all day telling teenagers they're ugly because they don't have three tits".
phf: i don't think "can still buy and diddle of amazon in a month" is adequate test for "didn't leak the patch to google". but i don't think there's a procedure to test the goal in general (see absence of evidence above). perhaps you could restate the goal, but then whatever restatement i'm not sure it will be under the control of the participant. in fact as mircea_popescu pointed out, a restatement of this particular goal simply introduces a random element
phf: outside of participants control to the game.
mircea_popescu: a review of extant literaturer shows this is the only known-to-work example of a cut to your problem.
mircea_popescu: well, scholarship only helps in the way it helps, what can i tell you.
phf: gentleman's word, if only there was a mechanism to verify a gentleman's trustworthiness
mircea_popescu: it may be the case, now and again, that your own fetishes aren't a worldwide concern.
mircea_popescu: the more i think about this, the more i want alf to be in charge of all sorts of things. imagine alf-run horsetrack.
mircea_popescu: "this opera is only good if building not flooded during a nine week interval after itwas played"
mircea_popescu: hence -- marriage. that prostitution contract whereby if the fuck doesn't take, worker's obliged to re-do.
mircea_popescu: i'd like alf state lottery. "if you win and after 10 years are poor, you win again"
mircea_popescu: i think the principal result of the discussion is, "can't have multi-pronged or articulated contests"
mircea_popescu: either can have arbitered contest, which defines a goal in human lang ; or else can have exam, which defines a final state, in machine lang.
mircea_popescu: no, the objection is to the mix. if you want to specify, then you must specify. if you're going to "incluide an element of chance", then the specification pretense is spurious.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as chainsaws sold with elements of chance.
mircea_popescu: consider : i give you pill, you sell it to google, you tell me it's my fault.
mircea_popescu: and if you want to be trusted, why aren't you trusting ?
phf: also contest starts around the time that ascii publishes articles on subj, conceivable that someone else decides to look at the cr50, white hats a vulnerability to google.
mircea_popescu: it's entirely there, that's exactly how this "foss" shit works, by sexiness.
mircea_popescu: and who thereby makes you an instrument of fucking up the market for people who genuinely put sweat in. and so on.
phf: asciilifeform: yes. a bounty is open to all comers, even the dude's brother.
phf: "wanted: johnny pistolas. $1000 dead or alive. bounty not accepted from relatives."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, notice how well arbitering works! i have no way to specify ~whether~ im actually paying a coin into this shipile or not. NOR DO I CARE. i'm just letting you arbiter.
mircea_popescu: phf, "bounty $100 paid for any information of whereabouts of dangerous criminal, except if he shoots the police and escapes"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, honestly, it was a pretty entertaining and informatrive discussion, by my lights. what mosfilm always wanted to make and never managed.
deedbot: kiboneu voiced for 30 minutes.
cnomad: is the competition you guys are referring to for popping that chip?
mircea_popescu: cnomad, might have run into some oddball bug or something, we'll see what maintainer sez.
cnomad: so, some advice, if you want -- competition format for long term research is not a great motivator, since it doesn't guarantee that someone will get paid for their time
mircea_popescu: that one -- once a day. but afaik "is registered" == "!!key outputs"
cnomad: like if 2 ppl work on the chip, someone pops it first,
cnomad: right but you see what I'm saying?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, understand the problem he describes. if arbitrarily prize is 1k, work required to pop is 1k, and 1k people participate, you are likely to pay about 0.5 per unit work.
cnomad: you need to assemble a team of people and pay them according to a statement of work.
mircea_popescu: yes you pay 1k for the pop ; but the long graph of sub-1k effort adds up to maybe even multiples of 1k.
cnomad: success isn't guaranteed but you could make a lot of headway for future research
cnomad: anyway, just food for thought
trinque: gpg: 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF: skipped: unusable public key
trinque: cnomad: why did you put an expired key into poor deedbot?
cnomad: no it expires in november
cnomad: prolly looking at a subkey
trinque: I'm looking at what ended up in deedbot's keyring when you fed it that key
cnomad: pub rsa4096/0x8D6436492F4A69AF 2015-11-14 [SC] [expires: 2018-11-10]
cnomad: 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF
cnomad: uid [ultimate] Kiboneu <*@kibon.eu>
cnomad: sub rsa4096/0x493D43E595D52480 2015-11-14 [E] [expires: 2018-11-10]
trinque: also use the paster next time
cnomad: i guess i didn't update my site
cnomad: it might be harder to assemble a team than a contest, but you'll prolly have better results
cnomad: well that's where reputation comes into play
trinque: cnomad: expect me to go looking for your key or what?
trinque: no, he has to hand it to me now in a paste
trinque: no, I'm not doing this for you again in November.
cnomad: i'll get to it when i get to it
trinque: what's this 14 year old cunt routine now?
trinque: this isn't comcast technical support, might find me getting to it when I get to it too.
cnomad: you're the one who asked me
cnomad: anyway, good luck with your project
trinque: deedbot has to be one of the longest running and most reliable services here
trinque: I dun recall kicking, or even telling the guy to leave.
trinque: stopped what he was doing to help, guy couldn't lift a finger.
mod6: is finally caught up
mircea_popescu: in other news, this doris thing sure knows its steaks!
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 01:49 asciilifeform: revisiting upstack : i categorically refuse to pay for any cr50 related work that does not produce a working and practically applicable pill. because there is no way to ensure that 'paid to advance art' rather than 'paid 10 derps' mortgages and student loans'
mircea_popescu: though, amusingly, the costa rican standard of food service is "solo bueno", which literally means they'll waive charges for items you didn;t like.
mircea_popescu: i'm in an impossible situation, on one hand this happens to be the correct approach i'm deploying, not dumbass contests. on the other...
mircea_popescu: "oh, don't send bitcoin to noobs unprepared to appreciate what it is".
trinque: any transfers the dood got are right there, waiting for him to politely give me a nonexpiring key
