whaack: in good news, i've added some light testing to the block explorer, and it has caught some minor bugs
whaack: ohhh and in bad/good idk news, i have caught a big bug...
whaack: !e view-tx 6f7cf9580f1c2dfb3c4d5d043cdbb128c640e3f20161245aa7372e9666168516
whaack: ^ notice how for this tx we're somehow showing a tx with a different tx_hash then the one we searched for o.o
whaack prays he does not have a corrupt db
whaack: !e view-tx 728 1
whaack: !e view-tx 6f7cf9580f1c2dfb3c4d5d043cdbb128c640e3f20161245aa7372e9666168516
whaack: bug fixed, there was no db corruption issue, it was caused by some mixup with the scope of a variable
asciilifeform: mats: november??
PeterL: saw this, I thought vex was using "pet" the way asciilifeform does, was wondering what kind of crazy bitch have you hooked up with that likes tearing up lizzards?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 22:37:10 vex: current pet actualyy will rip up an mp style asian house gecko. dunno how it gets `em
asciilifeform has both kinds
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076044 << '‘We need to be regulated,’ the CEO says.' >> lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 02:06:38 mats: https://archive.is/2021.11.11-144057/https://www.wsj.com/articles/binance-became-the-biggest-cryptocurrency-exchange-without-licenses-or-headquarters-thats-coming-to-an-end-11636640029
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:07:50 mats: binance doesn't subordinate to any sovereign
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $36600.92
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 14 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.032s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=720349
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=720349
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.172s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.103s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=720349 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.262s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.038s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=720349
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform noticed that yer logger www nao over9000x faster. didja find the magick postgres knob or wat ?
billymg: asciilifeform: i've also noticed that it seems faster but i couldn't tell you what i did
billymg: "all chans" searches still take some time
billymg: but yeah, definitely faster
billymg: asciilifeform: oh, heh, crawler lost its pg connection (doesn't have the auto-reconnect feature yet), probably what freed up the resources for the logger http://bitdash.io/
billymg: asciilifeform: any updates on the bigger boxes yet?
asciilifeform: billymg: oh yes : 'customer a' renewed (was out to sea, lol.) found potential src for missing ram for baking moar dulaps, tho
asciilifeform: can accomodate +1 dulap, after that will need the 'super' rack from upstream host
billymg: how much ram are you short? i remember in my request i spec'd it rather high, i'd be open to starting a subscription with a lower amount and adjusting upwards as you receive the extra sticks
asciilifeform: billymg: 128G. (ecc). tricky to get hold of working set tho, asciilifeform ended up with several duds
billymg: asciilifeform: i'm definitely fine with getting this thing going without the extra 128G, it would still be a major upgrade from the RK
billymg: if that's an option
mats: asciilifeform: they 'want' it, but if you recall the more recent malta piece, would rather have their freedom
mats: piece is more useful for info on how massive it is
whaack: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 720357
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 3
mats: like doing 2.7tn usd in spot and derivatives trading volume in a single month
mats: or being bigger than hkex, nyse, and lse combined
mats: mpex could have been this, it had the lead and nearly the right ideas
asciilifeform: mats: could equally say 'mtgox could've been this'
mats: thats not nice
mats: my initial arg was that cz/binance is a sovereign, and i think that's borne out of the facts
mats: you might not like them because they're an exchange, but at least someone in bitcoin does what they want, free of other sovereign encumbrances
asciilifeform: mats: how's this square w/ 'does what they want' ? they dunwork in usa cuz dun like letter 'u', or wat
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:08:19 asciilifeform: 'Binance is unable to provide services to U.S. users. Binance.US (BAM Trading Services) is a US-regulated cryptocurrency trading platform. In approved states, U.S. customers can use Binance.US to buy and sell over 50 cryptocurrencies with low fees.'
mats: if you read through the entire piece, you'll see that they've firewalled off the us biz from everything else
mats: they like the us market, because there's money in it, but not at the price of submission to usg
asciilifeform: as asciilifeform understands the word, an actual sovereign trades with whoever it likes
mats: and as discussed before, plenty of americans do trade on binance
asciilifeform: via neutral 3rd parties, if req'd (e.g. iran's petro market)
mats: using the binance coin, tether, or any number of alts
asciilifeform: i.e. 1st gotta buy shitcoin locally? why use a 2nd gox then at all ?
mats: because its bigger than the next four exchanges, with corresponding benefits
mats: ...like highly liquid markets, with deep order books and tight spreads
mats: and a derivatives book that americans can't use
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-05-05 19:59:44 asciilifeform: as a rule, they're entirely happy to buy promisecoin, so can 'leverage' and 'play'.
mats: the fees also start at 0.1%
asciilifeform not in target market
asciilifeform must bbl
mats: its an exchange, ofc they trade for promisecoins
mats: you are so difficult
billymg is still waiting for another btc-e, i.e. no passport selfies required
asciilifeform: billymg: may be long wait.
PeterL: it's an open niche, who wants to be the brave soul who tries to fill it?
asciilifeform: PeterL: imho is a niche which rightfully oughta be occupied by folx one knows in meatspace.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 20:07:52 asciilifeform: i.e. you go to yer l1 hawaladar.
asciilifeform: (any other way to organize it will devolve into plain goxism.)
billymg: PeterL: apparently a niche that even "sovereign binance" cannot fill, so dunno who greater than sovereign that could
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-17 19:39:26 asciilifeform: for instance, afaik 100% of 'illicit exchange man' arrests to date, were 'controlled buys' a la dope. i.e. intrinsically impossible in a solid wot context.
asciilifeform: is half of why reich even tolerates goxes -- to put brakes on the development of proper wotronic trade.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 13:03:00 asciilifeform: the reason why various 2010s 'they'll ban goxes!' prognoses (incl. asciilifeform's) came to nuffin, is that turns out goxes are a very effective instrument of exchrate control, and therefore quite valuable to the reich.
asciilifeform: so imho 'dream of a better gox' is very much wrong direction.
asciilifeform: the best gox is no gox at all.
asciilifeform: seekers of 'star topology' ~create~ the reich, rather than the reverse.
whaack: the only important job in the 'gox' direction imo is a pure btc denominated web wallet for low value transactions, i.e. a place where blue collar new bitcoin users can save up until they are able to afford doing their own biz onchain
asciilifeform: ( once created, naturally, maintained, esp. as folx 'atrophy' and 'ohnoez, p2p trade is impossible, see, 'localbitcoin' died..)
asciilifeform: whaack: a la signpost's, aha
mats: i guess there's no curing allergies to markets
thimbronion: you are all already kyc'd
PeterL: whaack: there is some benefit to having an interface between usd banks and bitcoin, and price discovery is also necessary
whaack: PeterL: If there was no bank<->btc interface you would be inundated with people looking to work directly for your coin. And the price discovery would happen way faster as 10s / 100s of thousands individuals would be weighing in what they believed would be a fair work<->btc exchange and item<->btc exchange.
mats: that's just not the world we live in
mats: you work with the mud and sticks you have, not the ones you wish you had
PeterL: or you would just have less people using btc
mats: hawala doesn't scale, and lets not do the medieval commerce thread again, thats exhausting
mats: being able to ignore these realities is a privilege and not at all conducive to economy
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076084 << asciilifeform, just so this doesn't get lost. let me know if that's an option and how long it would take to get up and running
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 17:33:46 billymg: asciilifeform: i'm definitely fine with getting this thing going without the extra 128G, it would still be a major upgrade from the RK
whaack: there's a reason the reich sets up goxes and it's not for the benefit of btc
thimbronion: Either btc is fungible or it's not
mats: you've removed agency from the discussion and that's not generous
thimbronion: I say it's fungible
thimbronion: If it's fungible it doesn't matter if you got it from a gox
whaack: ^ that's absolutely the case. there may be a risk at the moment of buying from the gox but it doesn't currently hurt the value of your coin.
whaack: mats: i don't understand what you're saying re removing agency from the discussion
mats: not every exchange is being operated by a representative of a government
mats: they don't "set up" exchanges, they are built by people, with their own agency, who make individual choices
mats: and not all of those people readily submit to 200 different sovereigns
billymg: makes no difference to me if binance is indeed sovereign but still requires all the same fiat paperwork in order to create an account
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076144 << oughta work, seems that i've 128G of working stix, will try to fit it into coming weekend
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 14:46:18 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076084 << asciilifeform, just so this doesn't get lost. let me know if that's an option and how long it would take to get up and running
billymg: asciilifeform: nice!
mats: for a very long time, all they asked for was an email, and max daily withdrawals were 2btc
thimbronion: billymg: concretely what is the problem with filling out kyc info?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076136 << 'kyc' is a reich 'limba de lemn', it aint about ~you~ 'knowing yer customer', but rather about gestapo also in real time knowing.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 14:33:57 thimbronion: you are all already kyc'd
thimbronion: asciilifeform: elementarily
mats: you cannot decentralise all the things
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 14:43:28 whaack: PeterL: If there was no bank<->btc interface you would be inundated with people looking to work directly for your coin. And the price discovery would happen way faster as 10s / 100s of thousands individuals would be weighing in what they believed would be a fair work<->btc exchange and item<->btc exchange.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-14 20:00:53 asciilifeform: if over9000 folx do this, before long the 'half' becomes 'full' duplex.
mats: one of the worst memes of bitcoin
thimbronion: asciilifeform: is bitcoin fungible?
asciilifeform: mats: who/what do you rely on to tell you what can and what cannot be decentralized ?
mats: markets require centralisation, its tautological
asciilifeform: mats: ~how much~ centralization, tho. i.e. need 'town market', or whatever conventional place for buyers & sellers to run into 1 anuther. but does it follow that also 'need' walmart or univermag to control all commerce ?
mats: neither walmart nor binance controls all commerce
billymg: thimbronion: good question, in some ways i see your point that we're all "already kyc'd". part of it is just that i've never had to do the "selfie holding passport" thing (goxes back in '14 didn't require it)
mats: they're just very big and there's economies of scale that follow
billymg: goxes back then also weren't diligently generating 1099s for all of your transactions
mats: we can in principle agree that large markets have material benefits, which you may not personally avail yourself of
mats: since you don't trade, you just buy, which is nice for you
mats: there's a whole rest of the economy out there with different needs
thimbronion: billymg: they don't do 1099s of your transactions now
billymg: mats: i think big markets are great, i just don't like that "governments" have their hooks in them in the form of regulations
billymg: mats: why not let market self regulate?
mats: sure, i get it
mats: i feel like i've been around long enough to have earned the benefit of the doubt
mats: but every game has rules
mats: we play by them until they change, or there's an end-run
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076170 << seems to be a 'religious' q. some folx strongly convinced that there are 'dirty' coins. ( fwiw asciilifeform not practitioner of this religion , from his pov the only 'dirty' coins are ones you bought at a reich gox where entered into yer dossier; and they're 'dirty' only vis-a-vis ~you
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 14:58:22 thimbronion: asciilifeform: is bitcoin fungible?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 14:15:15 asciilifeform: PeterL: observe that asciilifeform is 100% happy to accept coinz for rack service today, and doesn't particularly care where $customer got'em
asciilifeform: ~ )
billymg: thimbronion: ah, i assumed pretty much every trade could potentially result in "profit", e.g. if you trade 1 btc for a million doge coin, maybe there was "capital gains" on that, and so they generate the 1099
whaack: not every exchange is being operated by a representative of a government << I beg to disagree. Your poster child example of sovereign exchange has their CEO stating "we need regulation". The USG does not allow ANY "money transmitter" to work within the fiat banking system unless it has aligned operatives inside the system. This predates bitcoin and was one of the motives for bitcoin's creation.
whaack: You and I may have different definitions of what is a USG operative, but I consider anyone who submits to the culture of the politic USG pays taxes, goes and votes, and in general hallucinates that some ppl in washington have more rights than others are all part of the USG. They may be, and very likely are, wholly unconscious of their alignment, I'm sure the employees of Coinbase say and believe
whaack: they work at a private company.
billymg: whaack: well said
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076174 << wasn't the allegation. however reich ~does~ control all Official electric usd motion -- buy x kg of fertilizer at 1 shop, x litres of diesel at filling station, get visit from gestapo. sell a car at dealership, didn't report the 'income' -- expect tax visit. etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 15:00:29 mats: neither walmart nor binance controls all commerce
mats: for an operative, they put up an awful fight to regulators
mats: i guess there's no evidence that can possibly convince
asciilifeform: convince of what?
mats: quitting malta because of eu regulation means they might possibly not be gestapo
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076169 << imho not only not 'worst', but factually the only real purpose to bothering with the thing at all. i.e. to slowly get the reich outta folxs' hair, cutting 1 small tentacle at a time.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 14:58:21 mats: one of the worst memes of bitcoin
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-15 12:03:03 asciilifeform: imho ~whole point of bothering with the extremely gnarly rube goldberg apparatus is to piss on the reich in various ways.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
mats: what if agreeing to submit, and not really, meant that partisan exchange operators could take money from clients of the reich, while resisting in other quarters through i.e. legal shenanigans? until v-day?
mats: isn't there an asymmetry to that?
asciilifeform: mats: seemingly orthogonal q, but gotta ask: per your pov, are e.g. cocaine smugglers 'resisting the reich' ? or, are they part of it ? (could their biz model w/out it?)
asciilifeform: *exist w/out
thimbronion: asciilifeform: what is the concern re: paying taxes on bitcoin profits?
mats: they could not do without it, they need airplanes, airplane registration, fuel, hangars, bank accounts, corporate registration, etc
mats: this involves fiat
asciilifeform: thimbronion: this, for instance. i.e. taxation of the 'gain' amounts to simple slow confiscation imho
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 12:24:15 asciilifeform: 1. ... it'll be taxed (i.e. some uknown, potentially up to 100%, of its value confiscated by busybodies taxing imaginary 'gain', which in actuality consists strictly of ~their~ toiletpaper's debasement)
thimbronion: asciilifeform: have you heard of lifo accounting?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: elaborate ?
mats: working with the reich doesn't imply doing so in good faith
asciilifeform: mats: reich worx entirely fine largely using human material that aint working 'in good faith'. good % even thinks 'resisting!'
mats: embrace and extinguish
mats: bitcoin with the bear hug.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: maybe i'm thick, but not sure how pertains
thimbronion: asciilifeform: you claim you will have to pay cap gains taxes. How is this the case if you use lifo?
asciilifeform: ( or how it gets you around 'gains' going into yer dossier automagically, but 'losses' having to be justified, potentially, ad infinitum, w/ no guarantee of 'legitimization' )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-10 13:15:34 asciilifeform: when you get a lump of usd from an official (e.g. gox) org, they generate a 'this fella owes' event in usg record. ~loss~ (i.e. rebuying same coin) generates no similar automatic subtraction.
mats: the cap gains thresholds are kinda low for moneybags like asciilifeform
mats: long term cap gains kick in at 15% after the first 40k
asciilifeform: reich tax system is specifically, quite deliberately built to maximally rape the people w/ sumthing to take, and w/ income deriving from work (rather than dividend drawing). this yes incl. asciilifeform , folx like famous joe stack, etc.
thimbronion: If you convert your monthly income to btc and spend whatever percent you normally spend to pay off your cc every month and use lifo, your cap gains will be minimal or nothing at all.
asciilifeform: re cap gains taxation -- in inflationary hell, is simple theft. 'sold house? made 'profit'' 'now i want an equivalent house' 'sorry, yer 20% short nao, tax'
mats: oh good, another 'woe is me, the oppressed middle upper income taxpayer'
whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076201 <<--- this is projection
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 20:07:19 mats: i guess there's no evidence that can possibly convince
mats: there's plenty of handouts, you just won't take them
asciilifeform: lol mats, which 'handouts' ?
mats: mortgage interest expense deduction, rooftop solar subsidy, extended child tax credit, investment interest expense deduction
thimbronion: business expenses
mats: there's probably more but i can't think of them
asciilifeform deducts biz expenses. doesn't have a solartron yet; but that's a 1time thing, chicken change
asciilifeform: and yes if e.g. asciilifeform borrowed 10mil$, the interest deduction would add up to sumthing. (but why??!)
mats: more bitcorns
asciilifeform: imagine if there were a 'cost of heroin' deduction. would start shooting up..?
mats: oh right, i forgot, loans are haram
mats: you are the actual worst
asciilifeform doesn't consider loans per se 'haram'. just normally bad idea.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: dying with the most debt is a win
asciilifeform: well if it's 'trump-style' infinitely-rollable debt, then a++
mats: euros complain about americans not having wealth tax
asciilifeform: (rather than plebe 'collections took the car and dog' sort)
whaack: asciilifeform: there are buckets of cash being sent to everyone in the country dontjaknow? (not really sarcasm)
mats: famously, american billionaires are pilloried for being able to put up their equity as collateral, borrow for incredibly low rates, and basically 'hodl' until dead
asciilifeform: whaack: ikr? it almost covered asciilifeform's electric bill for 6mo!
mats: musk can sell when he wants, not necessarily because he has a 0.1% annual wealth tax to pay
mats: but also alf!
asciilifeform: we have 'wealth tax' in usa. i.e. inflation. it simply only applies to plebes
asciilifeform: the folx w/ rembrandt, dun have to 'pay 0.1% of rembrandt' quarterly
mats: yeah ok, the long suffering american taxpayer
whaack: asciilifeform: sure they do, they print themselves N and then pay their fair share of N/4
mats: i'm just reminding you how good we have it, relatively
asciilifeform: whaack: lolyes
asciilifeform: mats: y'know, you might find yerself working for a living one day. even if think to be no chance of this.
mats: i actually start soon on some unspeakable wage slavery
mats: after a short break
asciilifeform: oh hm mats , i thought you've 'made it' in machinations w/ leveraged goxisms etc for sumreason
mats: i'm too young to retire
mats: it was boring
asciilifeform: (and running on clean-burning btc a la thimbronion)
mats: did half of my bucket list and lost interest
whaack: "how good we have it" "unspeakable wage slavery" you get the log comedy medal today mat
mats: i'm not doing it because i need the money
whaack: if you don't need the money then why don't you do something interesting here
asciilifeform 's 'bucket list' includes things like 'bake sane cpu arch, prog lang, & os' so unlikely to suffer this 'illness' even if somehow escaped from wageschwitz
asciilifeform: whaack: iirc mats dun program ( ? )
mats: i'm following along with the pest stuff, might write a small client
thimbronion: oddly the more btc you accumulate ultimattely the less of your income you will pay in tax
asciilifeform: thimbronion: per current tax regime, factual
mats: i don't program with regularity but i have in the past
asciilifeform: (i.e. currently selling microscopic chunks of 'hodl' is taxed at 'long' rate, rather than 'wage' rate)
asciilifeform: mats: i recall you used to do reversisms
whaack: mats: how are your hands nowadays?
whaack: i should mention in logs my pain has gone from 5/10 back down to 1/10
whaack: pretty much zero hinderance to my work right now, thank god
asciilifeform: happy to hear this, whaack . ( asciilifeform assumed 'cured' or near, given that whaack returned )
mats: whaack: no improvement, but i have talon voice to help these days
asciilifeform often asked how he escapes wrist rot. answrs 'by typing very little, likely'
mats: so long as i avoid doing 30 consecutive mins of typing it stays at a dull roar
whaack: asciilifeform: from my investigation the brachial plexus gives genetic RNG on how the nerves are setup, so very possible you are lucky / mats and i are unlucky
asciilifeform: also possib
whaack: mats: i have no idea if what i did helped or if i'm even actually better vs. just having reduce symptoms, but i've been focusing on keeping an upright posture, taking collagen and magnesium supplements everyday with store-bought water, and doing exercise on the slackline
asciilifeform has suffered symptoms resembling early stages of wrist rot in the past, tho, when actually had to key > coupla kB / d
mats: i ignored it for a long time and probably made it worse
whaack: mats: have you tried the john sarno route? I mentioned in the logs before, it seems to have helped a lot of people
mats: bengay and ibuprofen are not actually helpful
mats: no, ill look at it
mats: i mean, if i quit keyboards completely, it goes away entirely after six or seven weeks
mats: and then it'll come back when i'm neglectful and sit down for a few hours where i'm actually using it a lot
mats: so in some sense it can be very manageable and i just can't get myself there
whaack: mats: alright, take it in with an open mind
whaack: mats: and i highly recommend getting a slackline, it helps you with posture and building up shoulder muscles and it is incredibly fun
whaack: shoulder and back muscles *
asciilifeform: oh hm tightrope ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076304 << asciilifeform finds this kinda thing moar interesting than simply for 'hands gave out' application
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 15:48:04 mats: project here https://github.com/pokey/cursorless-vscode
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-06 19:09:24 asciilifeform: theoretically interesting -- there were concepts in interlisp that never appeared in mit cadr + successors (bolix etc) -- e.g. the 'structure editor'
asciilifeform: muchly neglected concept in the current dark age of kompyooting.
whaack: mats: also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8CP-rfqp0s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQS0tdIbJ0w
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-19 18:33:39 amberglint: asciilifeform: Interlisp-D emulator's src is up: https://github.com/Interlisp/maiko
mats: guy works on it full time and i donate
mats: hes also a cripple
asciilifeform: structure editors would be a++ even for folx w/ working hands..
whaack: i really hope you get better, it sounds like i have had 10% of the pain that you have had for less time and that has been incredibly frustrating and depressing.
mats: thanks for mentioning it, i shared it with him in case he hasn't seen
whaack: asciilifeform: a slackline is similar to a tightrope, but a tightrope has more tention and you hold a bar to help you balance
mats: whaack: i appreciate it
whaack: i've been using my slackline even more than surfing now, it's much faster to get a quick fun workout than going to surf
mats: is there more information about this structure editor somewhere?
asciilifeform must bbl
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076232 << this makes sense but how is it different from just spending that fiat directly? i guess technically you're avoiding capital gains tax, but only because you're not generating any capital gains
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 20:19:59 thimbronion: If you convert your monthly income to btc and spend whatever percent you normally spend to pay off your cc every month and use lifo, your cap gains will be minimal or nothing at all.
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076266 << what type of salary work do you do mats?
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 20:31:40 mats: i actually start soon on some unspeakable wage slavery
billymg: i'm also in this camp. whenever i start thinking of going back to slaving for fiat i remind myself that working for the enemy is a trap
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-21 18:26:51 thimbronion: I personally prefer the price to stay high so I can work on meaningful things, as opposed to almost anything you can get fiat for doing.
bitbot: Logged on 2021-11-04 03:31:08 billymg: signpost: lately i go back and forth between a) hunker down and grow/raise my own food, b) join megacorp and hope the keycard they give me gets me into whole foods after the masses get locked out
bitbot: (trilema) 2018-05-14 asciilifeform: there's a common set of jokes from su, q: 'if only we let germany win, we'd be drinking bavarian! riding in mercedes!' a: '... yes, ride in mercedes. but -- as the leather seat.'
whaack: yup, time is the spiritual currency, spend it wisely
billymg: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1486051087736094729 -- it still feels like el salvador is the only sovereign actually pissing in the reich's cheerios these days
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-15 12:03:03 asciilifeform: imho ~whole point of bothering with the extremely gnarly rube goldberg apparatus is to piss on the reich in various ways.
thimbronion: billymg: you will generate capital gains on average. You will pay tax on it. This has the advantages of a) not losing money due to fiat inflation b) not supporting regime wars funded by fiat.
thimbronion: I suppose you could argue weather paying taxes supports the regime more, or holding their scrip
thimbronion: however whether one of the other is true, you end up with more wealth.
billymg: thimbronion: i understood it, from your description as, take monthly paycheck -> convert to btc -> convert back to fiat to pay bills (e.g. a rapid one-month cycle -- not much time for btc to appreciate considerably)
billymg: er, move that comma right before 'as'
thimbronion: billymg: I believe bitcoin appreciates something like .3%/day
billymg: ok, so you hold the btc for at most one month, if it gains in that month you're now taxed at the short term rate, which is the same as your wage rate
billymg: so i'm not saying hold dollars, but rather, hold the btc forever, and only spend the dollars that are coming in
billymg: the convert to btc and convert back again is what doesn't make sense
thimbronion: billymg: you are taxed on profits, yes, so that means you are making money.
thimbronion: regardless of the rate.
thimbronion: the tax is not 100% of the profit, more like 20%.
billymg: for long term, yeah
thimbronion: long term is lower
billymg: right, there are different brackets
billymg: 20% is the max long term bracket right now
billymg: short term capital gains iirc is basically just your wage bracket
thimbronion: in any case, whatever balance you hold in fiat, you're missing out on .3%/day
thimbronion: for whatever period of time longer than a day
thimbronion: and that's assuming you spend your entire paycheck
billymg: and what mats mentioned here i believe is based on your total income for that year. e.g. if you make $50k salary and then sell some asset for a profit you're already in that "kicks in at 40k" range
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 20:17:17 mats: long term cap gains kick in at 15% after the first 40k
billymg: thimbronion: ok i see your point, basically always hold "the float" in btc because on average appreciates at .3% to usd
thimbronion: billymg: yes exactly
asciilifeform: if yer rapi-cycling btc in goxes -- also will eat the spread
asciilifeform: (aand the volatility)
billymg: asciilifeform: i think his point is that the volatility, over a long enough time frame, comes out in your favor
thimbronion: asciilifeform: check out the lvl card - there's a spread, but no fees. Strike I belive has a smaller spread but lower limits.
billymg: and i guess if you "lose" one month that's "capital losses"
asciilifeform: likely would also need to hire a full time accountant to magick away all the 1099 bullshit 'gain' that'll go in yer dossier
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I currently pay my accountant 1k/year
asciilifeform: the fundamental problem w/ tax games is that they 'work until they don't'. i.e. what'll you do when tax collectors decide that you owe 20x what you've paid.
asciilifeform: + interest.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: will pay it off in payments. can't take my house from my ex.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-25 14:39:16 asciilifeform: punkman: it's, roughly, what killed naggum, for instance.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: that's norway
asciilifeform: and usa.
thimbronion: in any case those are the rules as they stand
thimbronion: retroactie tax changes are highly unpopular
asciilifeform: there's a reason why the 1k/y accountant won't give you an actionable guarantee that you will ~not, under any circumstances~ get that surprise bill.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 12:43:44 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik there isn't even a deterministic algo for 'i need q*x coin to buy this item priced x, q >= 1.0, cuz tax'
thimbronion: asciilifeform: irs doesn't provide any guarantees about anything
thimbronion: also what they're gonna charge you a 200% tax?
thimbronion: it's on profits
asciilifeform: it's on anyffin you might've been 1099'd for
asciilifeform: (which these days includes even absurdities, e.g. selling a piece of shit on ebay)
thimbronion: I mean yeah you're gonna pay tax on sales of btc
thimbronion: if there were gains
billymg: thimbronion: is this an accurate summary, roughly, of your philosophy on this? "there's no guarantee the irs won't come and shoot your dog tomorrow, regardless of what you do, so why not try to increase your btc stack and/or lifestyle in the meantime"
thimbronion: billymg: absolutely.
billymg: i can see it
thimbronion: if you are driving a nice car, better be paying a fuckload of taxes
asciilifeform rather regularly gets 4-fig surprise tax bills
billymg: from irs??
asciilifeform: more often from state
thimbronion: asciilifeform: same
billymg: i've had large tax bills at the end of the year too, usually not big surprise though
thimbronion: once they fucked up and actually corrected it
billymg: i've had to pay the penalty for "not properly withholding" too, it amounted to jack shit
thimbronion: I mean if I had a polish passport things would be different
asciilifeform: what amts to will naturally vary w/ yer weight class
billymg: like such a small % of the amount you "didn't properly withhold" that it's actually in your favor to pay the penalty
billymg: i.e. can invest the money during the year to make up for it
billymg: oh yeah, after mats was talking about binance today i got curious and looked to see if they have a "crypto credit card", they do, and here are the countries they support: https://www.binance.com/en/support/faq/ed89f6797ae943ad87841e58591eb229
asciilifeform: invest? well that's if you have magick amulet which makes the roulette come out to the colour you bet on always
billymg: asciilifeform: invest in btc for example
asciilifeform: and let's say you invested 6mo ago, lol, and need the fiatola nao
thimbronion: index fund evven
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076404 << pretty typical 'anywhere but usa' list
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 18:28:13 billymg: oh yeah, after mats was talking about binance today i got curious and looked to see if they have a "crypto credit card", they do, and here are the countries they support: https://www.binance.com/en/support/faq/ed89f6797ae943ad87841e58591eb229
billymg: asciilifeform: no latam either, which is what stuck out to me
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-08-16 asciilifeform: there's a reason, i guess, why eu passport is 800k.
thimbronion: there will never be a wealth tax in the US
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 15:27:18 asciilifeform: we have 'wealth tax' in usa. i.e. inflation. it simply only applies to plebes
asciilifeform: ( what other 'wealth tax' is there anywhere?)
thimbronion: asciilifeform: no I mean a real wealth tax
thimbronion: ie a tax based on an asset that you have not sold
asciilifeform: what'd that look like ? 'pay 1% of that rembrandt' ?
thimbronion: asciilifeform: yes
billymg: asciilifeform: 1% of btc stack
asciilifeform: i'm sure rubes will be found who actually register their stack and will pay
billymg: re: eu passports, the first country that does what el salvador is doing but that also has a standard of living *at least* comparable to cr -- i'd probably move there
asciilifeform: just not anyone w/ srs mass
thimbronion: The US is in fact the biggest tax haven
asciilifeform: taxes per se only apply to plebes. lizard pays % of income comparable to candy wrapper for you or i
asciilifeform: and will pay 0 % of 'wealth', will offshore as much of it as req'd and remain untouchable
billymg: dunno if anyone saw the michael saylor interview on tucker, but he actually goes as far in explaining the properties of bitcoin as saying "the government can put a gun to my head and take my house, but if they pull the trigger they won't get my btc"
asciilifeform: the only known way historically to tax a lizard is in a cork-lined cellar, a la lenin
thimbronion: putin figured it out
asciilifeform: imho his success there overhyped.
asciilifeform: for that matter e.g. abramovich still cackles in london
thimbronion: hope I never have to live in London
asciilifeform: bonechewer: how could they not be? modern ru is run by folx w/ 1e9$'s parked in zurich, children in harvard and oxbridge
asciilifeform: thimbronion: iirc d00d mostly lives on yacht in tropics, only the dough 'lives' in london
thimbronion: asciilifeform: that makes more sense
bonechewer: The propaganda in the West is that Putin reined those folx in and got them on board to back the Russian state. I suspect that the reality involves much more influence in the other direction as well
asciilifeform: bonechewer: it's a spectacle put on for plebes in ru. to certain extent leaks into reich fishwraps
thimbronion: what actually went down?
asciilifeform: iirc in cn similar (tho can't comment in detail, asciilifeform dun know cn)
asciilifeform: thimbronion: e.g. demonstrative dekulakization and jailing of hodorkovsky (kleptocrat, nao 'critic of putin' etc)
thimbronion: Khodorkovsky didn't serve time or wat?
thimbronion: Russian oil money is still net outflowing from Russia?
asciilifeform: 1-2 served time, over9000 not only still on yachts but succeeded in sawing apart country, converting to yachts & cocaine century+ of plebe blood
asciilifeform: phunphakt -- stalin forbade petroexport. 'we will not sell the blood of the country'
asciilifeform: hrusch's conversion of su to a petrostan was '1st swallow of spring' re the sawing apart.
asciilifeform: ( petrostans are inherently kleptocratic, i.e. instead of building up the kingdom, instead yer building up balances in zurich )
bonechewer wishes Luka were more competent (link: "hipster bars continue to metastasize all over Minsk, lovingly adorned with POC portraits") but Belarus sounds okay
asciilifeform: bonechewer: funnily enuff, right here in the heart of the reich asciilifeform not yet encountered the supposed 'ausweis, bitte' 'vax passport' whatever
asciilifeform: must not be going to the right bars or wat.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: belarus incidentally is a kind of 'sovok theme part' economically dependent on largesse from ru
asciilifeform: *theme park
asciilifeform: see e.g. mp's tour of the place
asciilifeform: if you like crumbling hruschebas, sov-style cops & train conductors in period uniforms, etc. -- yer paradise is waiting there
asciilifeform: might even land coveted job in still-functioning tractor factory, if yer a level-6 lathe man.
bonechewer: yes, in particular oil acquired from ru below the world market price -- but that is in keeping with retaining it domestically the way asciilifeform seemed to approve of just now!
asciilifeform: bonechewer: it's a 'muppet' rather than 'puppet' state, tho, fuhrer coquetted with west reich for many yrs, then ran crying to moscow when his 'partners' decided to set him up colour revolution
bonechewer: In NYC and Boston, not only bars but museums, etc., enforce the vaxpass
asciilifeform: a here museums simply closed afaik
asciilifeform: already before covidiocy they were gettin' heavy on the posters & reproduction an' light on exhibits
asciilifeform suspects sold and yachted
asciilifeform: even animals in the zoo were disappearing 'temporarily'
asciilifeform: in ru comical lulz, what w/ folx standing in queues in crowded train stations to get 'covid pass' etc
bonechewer: That's because, in best lizard fashion, it is about societal control, not any sort of health precaution
bonechewer: The distinction between "muppet" and "puppet" is null, at least to me
asciilifeform: 'muppet' bites the hand.
bonechewer not encountered that usage before
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-13 15:39:56 asciilifeform: punkman: small change compared to the great theft .
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-17 15:17:20 asciilifeform: seems like current (i.e. post- Great Theft) situation is a return to the ancient norm, as intended by the lizards, where 'you work a day, and what do you get? anuther day older and deeper in debt'(tm)(r)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-31 23:13:21 asciilifeform: signpost: in '19 was already clear imho 'they need a worldwar' but also clear that can't afford actual one. so instead organized fictional one
asciilifeform: for the stage prop, used the weakest sauce avail. from the old biowar labs
bonechewer not convinced they won't run an actual war
asciilifeform: moar than sufficed for the marks.
bonechewer: A++ way of explaining the inevitable currency devaluation
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-11-02 15:33:53 asciilifeform: all the current slave empires have exactly 1 strategic objective : 'business-as-usual'. ad infinitum.
bonechewer: currency has much farther to fall, need new and better official justifications
asciilifeform: ( in actual war, yer palace might get levelled, and yacht -- sunk )
bonechewer: actual wars happen in grubby places far from lizards (Libya, Syria, Iraq) but are no less real
asciilifeform: and cocaine supply tighter
asciilifeform: bonechewer: speaking of Actual War, i.e. 'world'
asciilifeform: not 3rd world pissing contests
asciilifeform: ( the latter largely set up to churn reich inventory and cull surplus males in goatfuckistans )
bonechewer: yes, 3rd world pissing contests are orchestrated by lizards to grow access to cheap labor pool, justify importing "refugees", and fund bonuses that will fund some nice kitchen and bathroom renovations in a few Northern Virginia suburbs
bonechewer nontheless has queasy feeling that lizard hate for US plebes will get even more active
dulapbot: (trilema) 2019-02-01 asciilifeform: these are the folx for whom e.g. tyre fire of libya is a 'success' ( ghaddafi dead? check. no unified arabistan ? check. etc )
bonechewer: because what's to turn it around?
bonechewer: Gadhafi not only dead, but nobody else tempted to demand gold in exchange for their oil
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-15 12:21:23 asciilifeform: the reason why inflation is observable in 'cartoon colours' in sad orcistans, e.g. argentina, is that in such shitholes, the elite's ~only asset is the printing press. crowned muppet ~will~ try to keep palace and private jet etc, even if has to pay for it 100% by printing peso.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: correct
bonechewer: asciilifeform: lizards per se may not hate amerikaners but a lot of their minions sure do
bonechewer: Nearly as much as Nuland, Blinken, & co. hate Russians. Deep-seated ancestral hatred.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: there's an interesting psychological trick that asciilifeform is ill-qualified to comment on, where 'desk flyer' in blue hat is conditioned to hate trucker in red hat, powered by likely his dread of having to do honest work w/ own hands, or his red-hatted grandfather's belt buckle in his arse, etc
asciilifeform: fact is, w/ exception of lizards , ~erryone in usa is no moar than 3 gens 'outta the coal mine'
asciilifeform: or the cotton plantation etc
asciilifeform: the hatred is -- engineered -- self-hatred.
asciilifeform: lizards in usa 'solved' the 'unions problem' by getting rid of labour, creating caste of lumpens on left side of bell curve and caste of paper shufflers on right side, with the sleight-of-hand moar than sufficing to ramp down expectations of life for all of'em
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-04-22 14:01:38 asciilifeform: this is a '50s-era decision, btw. originally made, in usa, to destroy the unions.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-12 16:01:23 asciilifeform: there is a large, brick (quite rarity in usa) house near where asciilifeform lives. owner -- died, no immediate heirs, somehow ended up in bureaucratic limbo, uninhabited, decaying lawn machinery, etc. for many yrs, i assumed it had belonged to a successful businessman, or high official. then found out from elderly townsfolks -- a schoolteacher had lived there.
bonechewer: hmm, your contention reminds me of old-school sovok class-based analysis
asciilifeform: cuz it was factual.
bonechewer: by which broke-ass blue plebe should make common cause with broke-ass red plebe
bonechewer: which is logical, don't get me wrong
asciilifeform: both colours of plebe have 1 actual enemy.
bonechewer: economically, sure
asciilifeform: wasn't so long ago that they were even issued the coloured hats.
bonechewer: but same goes for shia plebe and sunni plebe in iraq
asciilifeform: well those were issued hats 1000+y ago
bonechewer: or catholic plebe vs. protestant plebe in northern ireland
asciilifeform: rather diff. case
bonechewer: blue and red plebes belong to different religions, de facto
asciilifeform: rather young religions tho.
bonechewer: blue plebes follow the Woke, Globohomo cult
bonechewer: red plebes some post-Reagan remnant of pro-US flag waving
bonechewer: Whatever nominal Christianity they may also profess (fewer and fewer of them) hardly enteres into it
bonechewer: indeed, rather young religions.
bonechewer: whether this was engineered by the lizards, or happened naturally, I couldn't say
asciilifeform had a family friend in deep dod contract payola dough, who liked to say 'whether the catholics win the election, or the lesbians, i'ma still get paid just the same'
bonechewer: Although the evidence that lizards engineered feminism to get more women into the workforce and monetize child care is pretty good imho
asciilifeform: bonechewer: orig. was to double the clerk supply and put wages through the floor. worked a++
bonechewer agrees re: feminism
asciilifeform: (at one time a bank clerk's wage sufficed to feed a family)
bonechewer: family friend also not wrong, but doesn't change the fact that antifa plebes hate MAGA plebes enough to shoot them down in the street
asciilifeform: to date moar shouting than shooting
bonechewer: yet lizard regime funds and protects only antifa
asciilifeform: is funny, how erry time they need to agitate for yr+, bus in over9000 morons of both hat colours into some shithole, and spend 1e8$ on provocateurs, to get 1-2 corpses
asciilifeform: (which then can be paraded on tv for yrs)
asciilifeform: rather low roi.
bonechewer: number of corpses grew steadily in 1970s, likely to do so again
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-02 14:33:31 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034974 << tried to have reichstag fire, but no one could find a match that'd light..?
asciilifeform: bonechewer: in '70s mostly slum dwellers agitated into torching own slums (since became a kind of tradition in usa)
dulapbot: Logged on 2019-12-02 02:26:44 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: disappointing, but unsurprising. in usa also riots ~always like that -- the designated 'kindling' (i.e. slums) burn, and (almost...) never the skyscrapers.
asciilifeform: observe how it's never a 1e7$ mansion that's torched, and never lockheed hq, nor a yacht, nor harvard, etc
bonechewer: separately upstack re: wrist pain, I wanted to reiterate that for pain in the little finger and ring finger, the Kinesis Advantage keyboard is the way to go
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-13 11:44:19 bonechewer: I saw an orthopedist and he recommended two things, which I followed:
bonechewer: Plus 50 mg of Vitamin B6 per day
asciilifeform: bonechewer: not yet encountered anyone cured by keyboard rec (incl. asciilifeform's)
bonechewer: That combination has been a silver bullet for me and one former co-worker
bonechewer: But again, only for pain caused by squishing the nerve on the little-finger side of the wrist
asciilifeform: 'emacs pinky'
bonechewer: Precisely emacs pinky
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-09-22 asciilifeform: switching caps lock and ctrl << 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. http://www.xach.com/na
bonechewer developed after a few years of heavy emacs use at work
bonechewer: Since not everything is emacs, the Kinesis Advantage (or similarly shaped Kinesis Classic) is exactly what's needed
bonechewer: This puts backspace and control on thumbs
asciilifeform still suspects that 'gold standard' prevention & cure of wrist rot is simply not hammering in MB of txt / d
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 15:41:38 asciilifeform: has suffered symptoms resembling early stages of wrist rot in the past, tho, when actually had to key > coupla kB / d
bonechewer: That may be, but I am paid much better to hammer in MB of text than I would be to hammer in nails
bonechewer: And that keyboard plus the B6 has let me do so for 2+ decades, when thought would have to quit after a couple years
asciilifeform: (and also perhaps not smashing yer hand on rock-hard incompressible horror all day long)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-10-12 21:26:03 asciilifeform: yer fingers need tactile feedback to give the muscle power somewhere to go; as well as to come to a comfortable stop before smashing into immovable object (keyboard bottom, desk)
bonechewer: Yes, Kinesis is a mechanical kbd, but just using a conventional mechanical kbd was not enough to prevent pain for me
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's current kbd for instance has 10mm of spring travel.
bonechewer: As to specifics: the "KB500" models should be avoided; they have a bug and do no function with modern USB controllers
asciilifeform not used subj, cannot comment
thimbronion: bonechewer: re vitamin B6, recently found a butcher that gets liver in weekly.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-06-18 17:04:45 asciilifeform: from above, pic of the particular item i use .
bonechewer: Current model is the "KB600", works A++. Old PS/2 versions ("Kinesis Classic") also fine.
bonechewer believes firmly enough to make the following offer:
bonechewer: If one of you guys on this channel tries the Kinesis + B6 for pain that numbs the little finger and ring finger and it does not work, I will purchase it from you at the list price
asciilifeform: iirc whaack had sumthing like this
asciilifeform: eh that aint 'spendy'
asciilifeform: 'model f' for instance cost, wat, 2k$ in ~1980~ $
asciilifeform: i.e. like 'harley'
bonechewer is impecunious enough to not part with $319 lightly
asciilifeform 's cost him very little to purchase but weeks of time spent in restoration
asciilifeform: in particular, soldering in wong's controller was a bitch (ribbon cable)
asciilifeform: not to mention the sanding, stripping, painting, ultrasonic baths for the mechanicals
asciilifeform: was worth it imho tho
bonechewer: Relevance to Kinesis is that to make the KB500s usable, have to crack them open and attach the appropriate cable to make it a PS/2 kbd rather than USB
asciilifeform: thing is indestructible short of running a train over it
asciilifeform: (and impervious to dust, liquids -- contactless electrostatic switches)
asciilifeform: ( this re 'ibm model f' )
bonechewer shares some of that experience: at one work location, had to press his original 1997 Kinesis Classic into service after removing over a decade of grime
bonechewer thinks I used similar item 1991-1992 on horribly slow IBM AIX box of the time, but can't be sure of the details
asciilifeform: most likely was the 'model m'
asciilifeform: 'f' uncommon
asciilifeform: ( in 'm', springs but over a conventional rubber dome matrix internally. and annoyingly riveted down, difficult to clean 100% )
asciilifeform: the key caps are compat. tho
asciilifeform pulled caps from buncha 'm'-s to terraform the 'f' into a pclike layout instead of the oddball dumb terminal thing
bonechewer: The machine was the IBM RT PC, slow even by the standards of the time, but what the keyboard may have been I defer to asciilifeform
asciilifeform not encountered subj, cannot comment in depth
bonechewer: In any case, I logged on purely to once more extol the Kinesis like the fanatic that I am
bonechewer: But ended up having pleasant conversation with asciilifeform, for which I am grateful
bonechewer: Must leave the terminal now; have a good evening!
asciilifeform: nighty, bonechewer
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 09:06:12 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: asciilifeform reverted the 4.3.1 step8 thing before went to bed
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-24#1075838 << ok, so if blue(b) speaks after green has stored yellow as designated blue relayer, it will show up as "blue-fake1" or watever in greens console? (even tho direct peer) while messages from blue(a) will show up as just "blue".
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 10:42:25 asciilifeform: if they do not, and, say, blue(a) fires, all three (yellow, red, green) will store 'yellow' as designated relayer for 'troo' 'a', and worx
jonsykkel: wat then happens if blue(a) unpeers yellow and peers with red instead? and starts talking
jonsykkel: also in original case entire net will agree on whos real blue guy. wat if 2 nets with no collisions yet merge where net1 agrees that blue(a) is real guy and net2 agrees on blue(b)?