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asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 11 nodes...
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.023s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.084s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.179s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.165s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.286s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.622s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629048
watchglass: 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.583s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629049
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
asciilifeform: welcome violadivias
asciilifeform: violadivias: you were asking re cr50 ?
asciilifeform: violadivias: this is where i left off, re subj.
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-06-25 asciilifeform: (1) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_ro_sig.png (2) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_hitler_enforcer.png (3) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_hitler_enforcement_businessend.png (4) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_pinned_pubs.png
asciilifeform: violadivias: not long after, i found that one of the vendor updates does allow user to re-enable the use of the thing as spi debugger (gotta unplug & then replug the battery inside, then through the serial cable can enable debug.) but this was only 1 of my 2 objectives -- wanted to get 100% control over the cr50 fw, to snip out the google master key bullshit. but never found suitable hole.
asciilifeform: project's been on ice since then.
asciilifeform: i don't need a box w/ masterkeyed fritzchip for anything.
feedbot: http://thimbron.com/2020/05/costa-rica-servers/ << Thimbron -- Costa Rica Servers
violadivias: asciilifeform: thank you. greetings. yes this is what i was curious about. Im researching the second incarnation of this chip which they call titan m. trying to figure out if or how the suzyqable can speak to the chip on a pixel 3a phone or whether ill need other equipment.
violadivias: thanks for the information
asciilifeform: violadivias: i do not know whether that cable works w/ all of their irons, but suspect that yes
asciilifeform: iirc they sell 'official' one now.
violadivias: ive actually ordered the official one from sparkfun
violadivias: although ive heard different stories as to what can be done with them
asciilifeform: mine took a few min to make.
violadivias: do you know anything about this setup? https://github.com/Peter-Easton/android-debug-cable-howto
asciilifeform: ( at that time, they did not sell the cable )
violadivias: i cant find any official documentation
asciilifeform: violadivias: that one looks to be ~same as mine
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: this was how i deduced the pinout .
violadivias: i was about to ask :)
asciilifeform: it wasn't, at the time, in google's docs, but the usb org's had the pictured table.
asciilifeform: as can be seen in linked piece, i made it from a standard 'usb-c breakout' and 2 trimpots.
violadivias: cool i must admit this is new territory for me
asciilifeform: on the other end, you get a usb plug, and when you plug it into a linux box, you get a buncha tty's
asciilifeform: one of'em goes to the cpu debug, another -- bios console, another -- ec (kbd controller) console, yet another -- cr50 .
asciilifeform: when i first built the cable, i had no idea that cr50 existed
asciilifeform: it wasn't in any of the avail. docs.
violadivias: interesting
asciilifeform: violadivias: see also this thread
asciilifeform: ( where some fella claiming to be 'google employee' openly lied to me re cr50 , 'nobody has the master key' etc )
violadivias: hehe
violadivias: what do you make of this https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/05/insider-attack-resistance.html
asciilifeform: violadivias: the src is public btw
violadivias: thank you
violadivias: https://2018.osfc.io/uploads/talk/paper/7/gsc_copy.pdf
asciilifeform: violadivias: the 'attack resistance' in the linked piece is an artful distraction/disinfo. cr50 is there specifically to prevent the owner of the machine from getting 100% control over it.
asciilifeform: and with the master key, can rewrite the (standard cpu's) bios, without needing to overwrite the cr50 one
asciilifeform: granted, this requires physically handling the box. but not, for instance, switching it on. can be done via e.g. diddled usb power brick.
asciilifeform: ( the machine charges through the usb-c port, so you cannot simply cement it shut )
violadivias: https://alexbakker.me/post/mysterious-google-titan-m-bug-cve-2019-9465.html
asciilifeform: imho the motivations behind cr50 are quite apparent, and fully covered in my piece on subj.
asciilifeform: violadivias: i can entirely believe that some or all of the user-side 'crypto api' functionality of the thing is buggy. however, i don't much care, given as my interest in the item was 100% focused on defusing the boobytrap , and the lock preventing ~that~ , i was unable to find any exploitable bug for.
violadivias: well ive got a mission and ill share what i learn because im standing on your shoulders at this point
violadivias: cheers
asciilifeform: that doesn't mean there isn't one (in a given fw ver; they update'em regularly, and the thing prevents you from downgrading, you're stuck with whichever one you bought, + whatever subseq. upgrades )
asciilifeform: violadivias: plz do post if you find.
violadivias: cool sounds good
jurov: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_gVl
jurov: not here lol
asciilifeform: jurov: #trinque oughta work
shinohai: s/Qntra closed/Qntra exit-scammed/
asciilifeform: shinohai: you had shares ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: come to think of it, iirc they were only worth (in theory) >0 because BingoBoingo had a buy order in there for'em. prolly you oughta have tried asking BingoBoingo whether he'll honour it
asciilifeform: shinohai: aside from that, i'ma repeat what i said in '13 re subj. if you 'own' an 'asset' that consists of some fella saying 'x is worth y', and then all of a sudden he doesn't...
shinohai: had shares, more or less shaking head because outcome was more or less what I predicted.
asciilifeform: shinohai: so wait, yer head-shaking is from BingoBoingo giving up qntra, rather than mp's 'shares now 0, haha' ?
shinohai: It was a lesson learned for sure, and made 'ol shinohai rethink WOT activities. Can't buy *that* with coin.
trinque: jurov: it actually just pooted out the confirmation in #trinque
asciilifeform: trinque: btw imho 'accepted: 1' aint a very informative output..
trinque: this is the very first thing I ever built for once-tmsr you realize?
asciilifeform: right. and it worx.
trinque: but yes, whole thing is overdue a refactor, but that's pretty far down the list
shinohai: "Thank you kind Sir. I have inserted your deed into my robotic butthole and it will be recorded in the next BTC block as per your request."
asciilifeform: shinohai: imho would be better to have link to the input text, lol
trinque: too bad, shinohai beat you to the punch. in it goes!
trinque: :D
shinohai: hue
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-05#1011076 <<< this got lost when I was writing reply, but no, I'm shaking head *exactly* because of mp's 'shares now 0, haha'
snsabot: Logged on 2020-05-05 18:34:20 asciilifeform: shinohai: so wait, yer head-shaking is from BingoBoingo giving up qntra, rather than mp's 'shares now 0, haha' ?
shinohai: BingoBoingo's original promise 2nd to that.
asciilifeform: shinohai: didja ever ask him whether he'll pony up the bitcent or whatever it'd have added up to ?
shinohai: I don't think I've even calculated the total.
asciilifeform: lol, asciilifeform always 1st adds up total before grudging!11
shinohai: Item was declared worthless, so why would I bother considering trilema history in that regard?
asciilifeform: shinohai: my observation was mainly that if it 'was worth' to begin with strictly because the bearded fella thus proclaimed, then had problem to start with
shinohai: On further thought, I came to same conclusion after foolishly accepting s.mg shares
asciilifeform: shinohai: for me that moment was when mpex subscription started to cost like boeing
BingoBoingo: shinohai: I'll go through the last statements, and send. I misplaced your paste, so please let me know where to
asciilifeform did not have very many imaginary qntra shares, will not bother trying to invoice BingoBoingo . but appreciates that he upheld.
asciilifeform: i doubt it'd exceed the tx fee .
thimbronion: Anyone think something like mpex will exist again?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: depends what means 'like mpex' neh
asciilifeform: thimbronion: in principle mpex 'still exists', you can go an' give mp 100btc and carry on to buy some smg...
thimbronion: Yes well it exists in the same sense gurls exist in USA
asciilifeform: thimbronion: in what sense then 'existed' but no longer ? i doubt pyramids have gone extinct, you can prolly find one to dump coin into if you insist , somewhere
asciilifeform: mp's had the advantage of being truthfully labeled, arguably. like e.g. 'mmm' in ru.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: whereas if you were speaking of 'invest coin in worthwhile efforts' -- there's 0 to keep you from doing it , it dun need mpex or anyffin of the kind
shinohai: https://xhamster.com/photos/gallery/13383300/355419128 <<< yes, scams will exist again.
thimbronion: Mpex is physically there yes, but ded.
thimbronion: Why pay 100btc for access to a market with no buyers or sellers?
asciilifeform: why pay 100btc for access to market, period.
thimbronion: So will something like mpex circa 2012 ever exist again, with actual market.
thimbronion: Afaics mpex died when the satoshi dice guy got cleaned out.
shinohai just noticed he was in simultaneous conversation abt old women posting on xhamster and posted wrong link ....
shinohai: (. | .) #titsforevah
asciilifeform: lol shinohai i was looking at that an' trying to puzzle out how it related..
thimbronion: lol
asciilifeform: thimbronion: after demise of dice, it still had another 'dice', 'bitbet'
asciilifeform: thimbronion: another story with 'interesting' ending.
thimbronion: Did bitbet predate Voorhees getting taken to court?
shinohai: asciilifeform: you can fap to it, I won't judge. ^.^
asciilifeform: lol
BingoBoingo: jurov, not especially urgent. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=PKYG
thimbronion: shinohai please accidentally paste links only to hot chix thx!
asciilifeform: thimbronion: bbet was a later and unrelated item. ( and iirc vorhees of sdice was tried for some later and unconnected (w/ sdice) scam of his own)
shinohai: thimbronion: are you aware of my past in "republic"? I had linx galore.
shinohai: Check out #6 in that link btw, I've never seen an ass that far down on a slut before.
thimbronion: shinohai: I don't recall many pix in #trilema other than mp's rando links some kid who got whores to write addrs on their boobs.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: at one time there was a bot that spat out random pr0n linx.
shinohai: I have two of said addrs on boobie girls at my side as we speak.
thimbronion: There's something there: key bitcoin concepts illustrated with porn.
trinque: shinohai: pics of addr tats or gtfo! :D
asciilifeform: thimbronion: world of '09-~'14 bitcoinism was a very... interesting (entomologically speaking) place.
shinohai: lol trinque you saw 'em in trilema!
trinque: haaaa oh those boobs.
trinque: k say what you will about tmsr; the boobening was epic
shinohai: Not the transexual hooker I hired to infiltrate #trilema, the other girls
asciilifeform: for some reason the only 1 of those pics i still remember was the revolting faux trans-whatever critter
trinque: on that subj, asciilifeform plenty of markets have barriers to entry to keep them worth being in.
trinque: but sure, once there's no market, and still barrier, not much left to talk about
asciilifeform: trinque: in principle yes. but i expect the folx who belong participating in such, 'already know who they are'
asciilifeform: i dun expect there are many traders at e.g. nasdaq who saved pennies to buy the membership.
trinque: certainly
shinohai: lol it's still there #27 http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/
trinque: history's immortal eh
asciilifeform: trinque: the 'two-thirds of its revenue is from membership sales' bothered me exactly as much when it was 30 btc which in turn was 630 $ as since.
asciilifeform: if mp had been using that 30btc to e.g. build p2p net over oceanic buoys, rather than pyramidism, i'dve bought
trinque: the thing about being rich is you don't have to give a fuck what someone else would've done with your money, definitionally.
asciilifeform: surely
asciilifeform: i simply dislike pyramids. this more or less kept me away from entire subj of btc for yrs.
asciilifeform: didn't give half a fuck how rich (or 'rich' etc) pyramids made whoever.
asciilifeform: sergey mavrodi of 'mmm' was at 1 pt richest man in orcistan. and even sat in parliament. still died broke and folx came to shit on his grave.
trinque: eh bringing in pyramids as some kind of negative symbol doesn't make much sense.
trinque: their function in the ancient world as wonders displaying the power of egypt wasn't pointless at all.
asciilifeform: subj, for the unaware.
asciilifeform: trinque: i've nuffin against the original egyptian kind, lol
trinque: oh derp
asciilifeform: was speaking of the other one.
asciilifeform: ( tho if speaking of the egyptian sort, they're considerably more enjoyable to look at than to build, i suspect..)
thimbronion: Anyways, perhaps the time for an mpex is after the dollar dies.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: '...and with strange aeons, even death may die'(tm)(r)
thimbronion: asciilifeform: appears to be dying faster than I anticipated.
asciilifeform: dollar will die, but another indistinguishable scam will take its place.
asciilifeform: paper 'wealth' is addictive dope.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: i watched ruble die as a boy. suddenly had whole sack full of'em, felt 'rich'. until a little later, when noticed it wouldn't buy even candy bar
asciilifeform: traded that sack before blasting off for 1 $ .
thimbronion: asciilifeform: bitcoin isn't a thing or what?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: is a thing, but observe that 'paper bitcoin' also a thing. and accts for some unknown % of the exch value.
thimbronion: Ah well yes - fiat will have to stick around.
thimbronion: for luzers.
asciilifeform: wasn't speaking of fiatbux
asciilifeform: but of most of what passes for 'bitcoin' in the heathen markets
asciilifeform: i.e. where folx pay but don't hold the keys
asciilifeform: that's quite possibly ~most of it. people do it so that they can 'leverage'. hence periodic mega-crashes where holdings auto-liquidated, etc
thimbronion: Yeah I would agree at least a huge portion of it is on exchanges.
asciilifeform: so, yes, somewhere at the heart of that pile o'shit is actual bitcoin. which a, i suspect, rather small # of people actually have any dealing with.
shinohai: "But they asked for my ID and personal info, no way this exchange will scam me. Above board."
asciilifeform: shinohai: wasn't even speaking of plain scamming where you pay an' get 0. tho this also .
shinohai: https://t.me/s/rektplebs?q=bitmex+leverage
asciilifeform: shinohai: for instance.
thimbronion: Those people will run out of btc eventually though.
thimbronion: I estimate they lose half every 4 years or so.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: they won't run out. it's an ecologically closed cycle.
thimbronion: The waterfall leaks!
BingoBoingo: Less than a week till halving if hashing doesn't go weird
asciilifeform: thimbronion: are you familiar with the 'paper gold' racket ? worx well enuff to keep 'price of gold' in check for ~century nao.
asciilifeform: i.e. it does creep upwards, but not at anywhere near the rate of fiatola buying power dropping.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I am. Gold bugs are clearly dumb though. It was hard to see how dumb before bitcoin.
asciilifeform: it worx because there's a neverending supply of a) dumb shits who see 'paper gold' as == to actual b) greedy shits who want 'leverage'
asciilifeform: so its existence drives the price of the physical kind down. which is what the paper printing folx want to begin with.
asciilifeform: the 'mass of usd' in circulation ~doubled in last month. w/out, observe, anyffin like a proportional effect on btc, gold, etc
shinohai: that was an airdrop!
asciilifeform: this is because btc did not magically make folx smarter .
asciilifeform: as a rule, they're entirely happy to buy promisecoin, so can 'leverage' and 'play'.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I know the type personally
asciilifeform: it's the vast bulk of errybody involved w/ the thing in any capacity.
thimbronion: One had 2 mil in shitcoins now down 9x percent or whatever.
asciilifeform: most of the folx who 'bought bitcoin' have never handled a privkey. just like the 'oil futures' folx never touch a barrel w/ own hands.
asciilifeform: wasn't even speaking of the shitcoin enthusiasts. tho i'd be surprised if the observation didn't hold equally for'em
shinohai: Trust me, it does.
asciilifeform: i wouldn't be astonished if the usd exch rate, after a hypothetical complete removal of the 'paper coins', were closer to $10 than the current number.
asciilifeform: but this speculation is outta my pay grade.
thimbronion: Yes there are endless dipshits who believe in technical analysis.
asciilifeform: ( there is no contradiction here, incidentally -- the paper serves both to inflate the perceived value, and to depress, when necessary . the latter is very easy to do w/ a value that is artificial to begin with)
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I don't quite understand the terminology. If coins are removed from the market, wouldn't the price go up?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: near as i can tell, most of the heathen exch rate is accounted for by folx dropping usd, eur, etc. on faux-coin (e.g. #s in spreadshit, rather than privkey)
asciilifeform: if these were to go home, what would remain is the folx who were there in '09-11. at which time was 0..10 $ exch rate.
thimbronion: right so if there were fewer paper coins available, wouldn't the price go up?
thimbronion: Yes if the demand went down, the price would go down.
asciilifeform: only if demand were to stay put, neh
asciilifeform: most of the demand, afaik, is for the faux variant.
trinque: ever look into how commodity markets work?
trinque: gold/oil/whatever isn't being hucked around for every txn
asciilifeform: trinque: right
asciilifeform: trinque: near as i can tell , btc behaves very similarly. didn't think this was an outlandishly controversial notion.
trinque: I'm saying it's quite difficult to remove the speculation in either case
asciilifeform: i thought it was strange, 'holding privkeys is much easier than storing barrels of petro' but later understood that it has ~0 to do w/ difficulty of storing, but rather 'leverage'
trinque: this was the soviet project, eh? if we get the speculation out of the works, imagine the savings
trinque: not saying therefore I love string-theory-of-economics; more like calling both ends a turd
asciilifeform: trinque: funnily enuff su ran on speculators. just like old imperial ru, travelling merchants 'buy cheap , sell dear.' under stalin, there was unwritten decree exempting'em from harassment
asciilifeform: hrusch cancelled it.
asciilifeform has nuffin against 'buy cheap, sell dear' sort of merchanting. does it himself. but imho the kind where 1bil loc of src 'leveraging' and folx periodically wake up broke for no human-discernable reason, is idiotic
asciilifeform: at least when robbers come an' take yer wares, it makes some kinda visible sense. rather than 'god of spreadshit turned away his holy face from you'.
trinque: if one find himself so exposed to a goldman sachs spreadsheet, there appears to be a far-upstack problem
asciilifeform: trinque: the rub is that errything's exposed to'em.
asciilifeform: incl. btc.
asciilifeform: pseudo-money is contagious.
trinque: incidentally, and somewhat related, where is your thinking on gossipd these days?
trinque: sure, man is more prone to violent detachment from reality than any creature
asciilifeform: trinque: even now sweating over the numerics , since you mention it.
asciilifeform: there's a 2nd and 3rd part to that ch.
trinque: I have been sweating over an owned distro these past months, and working through FFA atop it is next on my conveyor.
asciilifeform: after ch21 out, can generate keys..
trinque: fucking amazing.
asciilifeform: ch22 will be specifically rsa demo.
asciilifeform: ( incl. keygenning, that is. rsa e.g. verification already worx and ch20 concerned pgp-eatin' )
asciilifeform: thing is already imho fast enuff for a modest 'gossip' etc. i expect w/ the bvt asm massages glued on, will be more obviously fit for the job.
asciilifeform: iirc w/ his variant, ~400msec 4096b rsaism.
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm quite interested in compact distro , yours and the jfw fella's. but presently trying to focus on 1 thing
asciilifeform: i had hardwarisms going, put'em on ice for the time being, to bring ffa to where can be used in anger
trinque: yeah, and ftr not trying to "compete" with jfw. I hope we'll actually merge our efforts at some point.
asciilifeform: trinque: as i understand, yer doing somewhat diff. things there
trinque: I think so. I have for example no intention of supporting X any time soon.
asciilifeform: he has commercial turnkey thing that gotta run x,y,z . rather than attempt 'from gcc4 and busybox' etc
trinque: I think for their project they must.
trinque: mhm.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: for my part, i have a miniscule x86 thing that boots a box into 'ffa over rs232' but aint ready for primetime.
trinque: incidentally not an attempt anymore; this motherfucker self-builds as of yesterday
asciilifeform: (nor a replacement for a linux, arguably, for general use, obv)
asciilifeform: trinque: neato
trinque: sorting some gnat-specific cruft and then genesis
asciilifeform: this is gcc+busybox item ?
trinque: yep
asciilifeform: defo interesting to asciilifeform . e.g. server dun need x11 for anyffin.
asciilifeform: if can run e.g. trb there, already battlefield-useful right there.
asciilifeform: if you recall, my orig. 'pogo' experiment, where 1st static trb build, was exactly this kind of item -- busybux+kernel, weighed 5MB incl. trb.
asciilifeform: ( had no gcc in it tho , so wasn't self-reproducing )
asciilifeform: for 'M' i built a busybox+kernel+gcc , iirc weighed 200M or so in total
asciilifeform: that was dead end experiment tho, 'run at 486 speed on opteron'.
trinque: yep these are the uses I see for it
asciilifeform: notion was tho to turn the currently-unremovable thompsonian binary deps (e.g. the gnat that builds gnat) into sumthing that runs on fully documented/reproducible pseudo-machine
asciilifeform: for that, built in ~13kB (asm, 0 libs) emulator of 1980s mips32. but arguably as useful as 'eiffel tower from toothpicks' in the end.
asciilifeform: possibly not wholly useless -- anyone who wants to learn to write linux proggy in plain asm, 0 libc, 0 linker, imho would do well to read 'm'
trinque: eh and I spent however long trying to drown gentoo in the bathtub
trinque: and this present item is far superior
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm still drowning mine, lol
trinque: yeah, I have a frozen one I use
asciilifeform: i have just about 2dozen boxen w/ that particular variant on'em.
asciilifeform: it aint 'ecologically clean' (i.e. not musltronic, or especially compact) but at very least free of poettering/gcc5.
asciilifeform: (and permanently)
trinque bbl, food
asciilifeform also
verisimilitude: I don't know how the feedbot is managed, and I see it's currently not present, but feel free to add my RSS to it, if anyone would be interested by that.
asciilifeform: defo interested. spyked plz add when you get a chance.
verisimilitude: I just released [this][http://verisimilitudes.net/2020-05-05] a few hours back.
asciilifeform: http://verisimilitudes.net/rss.xml
verisimilitude: Yes.
verisimilitude: Damn; I even looked first and I still reversed those bracket contents.
asciilifeform: hm interestingly i'm normally able to read aplisms, but this 1 has glyphs that dun display in my console
verisimilitude: I just released this a few hours back.
asciilifeform: aha, was looking at the src linked there
verisimilitude: I've not yet figured out how to have the HTTP server send the proper character set header, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: I don't particularly care to ever configure it.
asciilifeform: reminds me of 1990s ru www's, where one had to guess 'is it koi8 or win1251' errytime

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