mats: lots of black bars, but 'xxxxx' for some names
mats: getting some traction, but nothing interesting said https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jan/12/marine-researcher-covid-19-virus-made-chinese-lab-/
mats: dunno why you'd edit a document like this if you want it to be believable
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-12#1072597 << sure, but how does nc(1) know that the host/port (to which it tried to send the datagram) was unbound?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-12 13:00:21 asciilifeform: gregory5: under unixlikes you gotta bind the socket to listen (i.e. tell os which process the incoming packets oughta hand off to, and reserve a port)
gregory5: would that not imply that the host/port, if unbound, emits an error (or, alternatively, that the host/port, if bound, emits an ACK)?
gregory5: how does that not completely violate the spirit of UDP?
PeterL: gregory5: are we talking about seeing if UDP is bound on your own machine or on a remote machine?
gregory5: PeterL: a remote machine.
gregory5: you can try this experiment yourself. on machine A, run: nc -l -p 1234 -u
gregory5: on machine B, run: nc -u $ADDRESS 1234
gregory5: send some lines of text from machine B to machine A. then terminate the process of machine A.
gregory5: the process of machine B will proceed to terminate itself.
gregory5: then, do the experiment again, using your own UDP listening program on machine A, instead of nc(1).
gregory5: the same thing happens.
asciilifeform: gregory5: if the remote box has icmp enabled, you get a 'destination port unreachable' response for it, even for udp. see also.
asciilifeform oughta move the endnote re killing icmp on pest stations to moar visible spot in the spec
asciilifeform: and in fact the 'unreachable' propagates as a signal and apparently crashes blatta, which doesn't catch it.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-13 PeterL[asciilifeform]: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=hznF << yesterday my blatta crashed, I'm not sure what this output means?
asciilifeform: a serious pest station in principle ought to emit 0 icmp packets. incl. ping responses.
asciilifeform: icmp not only demasks the presence of a station, but is a traditional ddos amplification vector.
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $44105.63
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 14 nodes...
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718485
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718485
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.038s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=718485 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.363s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718359
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718359
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.647s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.421s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=718485
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
whaack: asciilifeform: top of the mornin'
whaack: price already recovering, how boring :(
asciilifeform: eh surely will unrecover many moar times
asciilifeform: wb punkman !
punkman: happy new year!
asciilifeform: punkman: thimbronion's pestron meanwhile mostly worx, lotsa action on pestnet. when you have a chance, press 9983, and ping asciilifeform et al for keyz.
punkman: did the discussion move to pest already?
asciilifeform: punkman: 1/2 way there or so
punkman: haven't read logs for a few weeks
asciilifeform: !q uptime
dulapbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 211d 12h 21m
asciilifeform: ^ dulapnet worx still, and asciilifeform intends to keep it going in near future (handy for e.g. n00b visitors) but eventually most of the life will be on pestnet, yes
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-27 13:12:06 asciilifeform: (for sumthing as precarious as a 1-box irc net, dulapnet has worked surprisingly well. but it is rather unsuitable for long-term use, e.g. can't exactly announce isp outages on it, given as it lives in the rack)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-27 13:13:27 asciilifeform: when there's a 100% stable pestnet, will bridge dulapnet's #a to it, i expect.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 18:34:08 asciilifeform: and in particular, the next time the dc folx trip over the main breaker like in dec. of '20, pestnet is what'll be standing and dulapnet awol
asciilifeform: punkman: and incidentally there's a 2nd prototype by jonsykkel ( asciilifeform not tried yet tho )
asciilifeform: iirc signpost is working on yet anuther 1
whaack: maybe punkman should try jonsykkel's implementation, since everyone else is already debugging thimbronion's
asciilifeform: iirc jonsykkel's in fact implements ~entire spec, incl. addrcast, rekey, and getdata, even
asciilifeform: whaack: good idea imho
asciilifeform: punkman: iirc you were making one also ?
shinohai: Wait ... isn't jonsykkel's smalpest still incompatible with testnet, or did I miss a patch?
PeterL: shinohai: I beleive blatta needs a patch to ignore the non-implemented commands
shinohai: ah kk.
jonsykkel: my prog can be peered with a blatta that has this patch aplyd http://zzz.st/up/jT70pm4A/9983-tmp-disgusting-hack.vpatch http://zzz.st/up/pG8KEMVi/9983-tmp-disgusting-hack.vpatch.jonsykkel.sig
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-13#1072662 << that explains so much. thanks.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 09:15:03 asciilifeform: gregory5: if the remote box has icmp enabled, you get a 'destination port unreachable' response for it, even for udp. see also.
gregory5: I have never studied the ICMP protocol.
asciilifeform: gregory5: best known use of it is the familiar 'ping'
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-13#1072667 << this is so sinister.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 09:20:54 asciilifeform: icmp not only demasks the presence of a station, but is a traditional ddos amplification vector.
asciilifeform: gregory5: interestingly not so trivial to kill icmp completely under linux. seems like requires iptables rule. (i expect we're gonna need a kernel patch to make it 100% stick)
gregory5: I think I found the "iptables" command: iptables -I OUTPUT -p icmp --icmp-type destination-unreachable -j DROP
asciilifeform: you'd want to nuke ping response also
gregory5: maybe this would work: iptables -I OUTPUT -p icmp -j DROP
asciilifeform: worth testing on various linuxen
asciilifeform: echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all is the popular recipe, but iirc only blocks pings and does nuffin re outgoing crapola
gregory5: I will need to read the RFC of ICMP.
asciilifeform: to meet the 'indistinguishable from unplugged box' 'nothing to the stranger' criterion of the spec, gotta 100% nuke icmp on the station.
gregory5: without familiarity with the RFC, you cannot be sure.
asciilifeform: gregory5: not even need to study the spec in detail, simply gotta make sure that the station never sends ip packet with protocol==1 . at all.
asciilifeform: (ideally also drops'em before they eat cpu when any appear incoming. but that's strictly secondary.)
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-13#1072730 << how will we do that? Wireshark?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 13:01:32 asciilifeform: gregory5: not even need to study the spec in detail, simply gotta make sure that the station never sends ip packet with protocol==1 . at all.
asciilifeform: gregory5: asciilifeform naively assumed that there's a working knob, but currently seems that there aint one, will need kernel patch.
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-13#1072731 << this is a problem. the "iptables" command only catches the packets as they are leaving the machine.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 13:02:00 asciilifeform: (ideally also drops'em before they eat cpu when any appear incoming. but that's strictly secondary.)
asciilifeform: ( alternatively can do so on router standing b/w station and world )
asciilifeform: the logical conclusion of pest station, asciilifeform suspects, will be a dedicated box.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-21 17:27:23 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: hypothetically solves ddosism (you can build, hypothetically, a device which forwards only validly-signed packets at GB/s)
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-13#1072737 << speaking of which, do you personally use a router with customized firmware? which hardware/firmware would you recommend to others?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 13:02:44 asciilifeform: ( alternatively can do so on router standing b/w station and world )
asciilifeform: gregory5: i use 'pfsense' currently. defo aint perfect, but beats the shit outta the extant alternatives imho
asciilifeform: gregory5: on an apu1, currently
asciilifeform: it dun 100% keep up with the Gb/s pipe, which is annoying, but i like that it is fanless and unfritzed fwiw
gregory5: asciilifeform: I will look into it. before I used Linksys WRT54G and AC1900 but I couldn't get OpenWrt working.
asciilifeform used the linksys 20y ago, was adequate for the pipe of the time but today rather ugh
asciilifeform: if you gotta have wirelessism, use a standalone thing for it hanging off a proper router
whaack: question for all: do you think view-block should return the list of transactions in a block?
whaack: !e view-block 560000
trbexplorer: height: 560000
trbexplorer: size: 910011
trbexplorer: version: 549453824
trbexplorer: prev_hash: 0000000000000000002f0bc62e1afc2c8502728bb98c7af661b4e6e75cb60b15
trbexplorer: hash: 0000000000000000002c7b276daf6efb2b6aa68e2ce3be67ef925b3264ae7122
trbexplorer: merkle_root: 28ee01906672e5d3f3427d22e3890057bc04df3b42da1c130f26267aeebe269b
trbexplorer: timestamp: 1548389645
trbexplorer: target: 389010995
trbexplorer: nonce: 1623994776
trbexplorer: num_txns: 3300
whaack: currently it just returns the above metadata, and the number of txns
whaack: !e view-raw-block 560000
trbexplorer: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=kDSR 1 of 4 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=a4os 2 of 4 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jUeR 3 of 4 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Xia- 4 of 4
asciilifeform: whaack: prolly best to return in a paste rather than to eat a kilometre of log, imho
whaack: yeah that view-block command is a bit obnoxious
gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-13#1072749 << the RPC protocol of Ethereum requires a Boolean flag from the user specifying whether or not he wants to see the transactions.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 13:11:59 whaack: question for all: do you think view-block should return the list of transactions in a block?
asciilifeform: gregory5: in their debug log or where?
whaack cringes at the thought of taking inspiration from ethereum, although that sounds like the right idea.
asciilifeform aint sure how this pertains to the q of whether bot oughta spit over9000 lines into log
whaack: asciilifeform: that wasn't my question
asciilifeform: seems obv. that one's rather it didnt
asciilifeform: whaack: hm do i misunderstand, what was it then?
whaack: view-block currently does not return the txns in the block, it just returns the metadata
asciilifeform: ideally would show the tx's, imho. (in a paste)
asciilifeform: y'know, errything typically shown in a traditional heathen block exploder
whaack: asciilifeform: right. one design goal is to have ZERO use for using heathen block explorers, (apart from heathen-specific interaction, i.e. dealing with segwit addresses)
asciilifeform orig. baked 'watchglass' specifically so could stop relying on increasingly trb-hostile heathen noad exploders; as i understand whaack is doing precisely similar for the block exploders
asciilifeform: this is an a++ proj imho
asciilifeform: ( imho a hypothetical 'adult trb' oughta have 1 built in and optionally toggled, visible on localhost and routed elsewhere if noad operator wants. but we aint there yet )
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 22:31:08 asciilifeform: imho it is however entirely possible to transplant a sane db in place of bdb.
asciilifeform: billymg's thing arguably obsoletes watchglass, asciilifeform still uses the latter largely from habit and a desire to have noad history searchable in the logz
asciilifeform: hence wai asciilifeform thinks whaack's approach ( to have block exploder operable via either www or dulapnet/pest ) is the Right Thing
billymg: yeah, i was thinking of adding bot UI to crawler
billymg: would be easy to do
asciilifeform: billymg: i seem to recall that whaack had a prototype
billymg: i thought whaack's was for his block explorer?
asciilifeform: ah yes nm he had a proto of www frontend for his exploder
asciilifeform on too many terminals , lol, too few head cycles
whaack: the blockexplorer is going to be published for anyone who wants to run it along with their trb
whaack: your 'blockexplorer' search history in many cases should be private
asciilifeform: using a public toilet to query 'have i been paid yet to this seekrit addr' rather defeats a basic point of using bitcoin to begin with
asciilifeform suspects that in this sense all major public blockexploders are honeypots for precisely this kinda thing
asciilifeform: 'link addr to ip' etc nonsense
asciilifeform: reich finds this kinda noise interesting and occasionally pays a pittance for it
billymg: since we're touching on this topic again, i had a follow up question that only occurred to me later, could clean (per asciilifeform's standards) be achieved via kyc exchange -> private wallet -> mixer -> private wallet? and if not, what means "clean"?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-10 14:10:47 asciilifeform: mats: well wouldn't be problem then, neh. would buy clean coin tho
asciilifeform: billymg: 'clean' in asciilifeform's conception simply means 'not from a gox' presently
billymg: asciilifeform: but how far back in its history?
whaack: asciilifeform: ugh sorry we are bouncing back and forth between chat logs, but i need to respond to the thread in pestnet here since here is where trbexplorer resides
asciilifeform: billymg: not immediately from a gox, i.e. didn't have to give some reich idjit yer postage addr, tax #, etc. to buy it
whaack: !e view-txn 4945ea572a9595cef9529cd6f6afdcfdd72f3d83f7bffeae916872375100da9e
whaack: !e view-txn 450000 5
whaack: ^the current block explorer allows access to txns both by (block height, index) and hash
whaack: note that the above 2 are same queries
whaack: err, the above 2 have the same result
whaack has to go for now
PeterL: asciilifeform: so if you buy from me and I send from gox to you, is that "clean enough" since you wouldn't have to interact with the gox directly?
asciilifeform: PeterL: historically enuff, but in current day with tighter fascisms, if i buy it w/ e.g. bank wire, prolly 'as good as' if i bought from gox
asciilifeform: the correct algo today is prolly to 'buy' some benjies 1st and pay with that. req's living reasonably near yer wot folx tho.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 08:30:30 asciilifeform: cgra: nobody's in fact abolishing cash, it's an 'unprincipled exception' quite necessary for the reich to function, and attempts to phase it out give similar result to hruschev's idiocy
asciilifeform: PeterL: observe that asciilifeform is 100% happy to accept coinz for rack service today, and doesn't particularly care where $customer got'em
asciilifeform: the headaches start when you gotta deal w/ fiatola.
asciilifeform: (or if yer foolish/desperate enuff to resort to trading with strangers)
asciilifeform also not fiat-loaded to the degree where he could make an appreciable +% to his coin by purchasing -- hence not made much effort in this dir
asciilifeform: !q seen lobbes
dulapbot: lobbes last seen here on 2021-07-31 19:10:38: once re-established a home base of operations, I'll be able to sort some things out
billymg: asciilifeform: what about mixers?
asciilifeform: ^ lobbes had a very handy auction bot, really oughta be used if folx intend to buy/sell coinz imho
asciilifeform: billymg: for what need mixers ?
asciilifeform: ( not that asciilifeform is even aware of any such thing operated by anyone in his l2 )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-13 14:08:00 asciilifeform: billymg: not immediately from a gox, i.e. didn't have to give some reich idjit yer postage addr, tax #, etc. to buy it
asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform not fond of 'send megacoin to a stranger and maybe get some of it back' apparatus. esp. when to counter a largely imaginary problem.
billymg: right, but say one was operated by someone in-wot
billymg: how is it an imaginary problem? you mentioned it as a requirement for acquiring coin (not linked to reich db)
asciilifeform: billymg: afaik the only presently effective snoopage happens at the direct gox level
asciilifeform recalls a debate w/ signpost re subj but can't immed locate the log ptr
billymg: i read a case study recently, can't remember where, in which they went to much more trouble (though it was for ~60k of btc, maybe from btc-e?)
billymg: as in 60k btc, not dollars of btc
billymg: involved tracking isp records, etc.
asciilifeform: billymg: keep in mind that in 'famous' cases, the 'evidence is tortured until it talks correctly'
asciilifeform not aware of anyone on planet3 being gassed, fined, or even harassed 100% from btc tx 'evidence' ab initio, to date
billymg: asciilifeform: i suppose your publicly advertised rack service is also a testament to that
asciilifeform: for instance.
asciilifeform: justabout as loud and public, with trumpets, as could be
asciilifeform: the parsimonious hypothesis is that reich for the most part simply ignores poor folx.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-10 14:31:34 asciilifeform: mp's hypothesis, that they want not a corpse, but a suitable actor ready to act 'correctly' and enthusiastically in show trial play , prolly had some merit.
asciilifeform: re upstack tho, observe that even if in yr or 2 asciilifeform was gassed, won't be from 'evil tx' but from loudly beating the 'gas me' drum for yr after yr
billymg: yeah, just thinking ahead to when level required to be "not poor" (and therefore worthy of attention) changes sufficiently
dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-12-15 asciilifeform: awaits the first fractional-btc deathray trial.
asciilifeform: the various usg corps peddling 'blockchain analysis' is largely a 'favourite son' racket like f35, and of no consequence to anyone who not already 'on conveyor' to gulag
dulapbot: (alethepedia) 2020-10-11 asciilifeform: thimbronion: the altcoinists -- sure . but i was speaking of the fact that the exch rate prolly aint growing another 0 -- or rather, not w/out the dollar price of archaetypical sandwich also growing a zero.
billymg: asciilifeform: "loudly beating the 'gas me' drum" like McAfee?
asciilifeform: difficult to outdo mcafee, lol
asciilifeform not a deliberate competitor in this 'olympics', but doesn't make any seekrit of e.g. offering boxes for btc etc
asciilifeform historically trades w/ l1 folx entirely in the open, except when the latter specifically request otherwise.
asciilifeform bbl in a bit
asciilifeform: PeterL: nifty
asciilifeform: (can put arrows on the graph edges tho?)
mats: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2022/01/07/google-chrome-hack-warning-new-attacks-exploits-upgrade-chrome-now wonder if thats a record
asciilifeform: mats: lost count of the 0days for that thing
asciilifeform: there's a bottomless well of these, just like for mswin and whatever other ball of overflowandcrashlang liquishit