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(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: haven't read, but heard of it. also did not know that author had a www. (lemme guess, no one cached it before zapped?)
(asciilifeform) Apocalyptic: gregorynyssa, I read "Debt: The First 5,000 Years (2011)" many years ago and still remember the impression with which I closed the book, highly recommend as well
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: yes - also parts of [apify][http://apify.com].
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 13:42:24 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: or didja mean graeber ? (who i also haven't previously heard of)
(alethepedia) adlai: gregorynyssa: indeed, I found it good enough to be surprised when a friend said the book (supposedly, it is closely inspired by some fellow's autobiograph-ish novel of the same name) was crap
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-10 13:15:02 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: in wordpress, bidirectionality is implemented via pingbacks. Any time you mention someone elses' article, you create a link on their article back to yours with a snippet of context.
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-11 21:43:43 gregorynyssa: there is some problem with my client. sorry.
(alethepedia) snsabot: (asciilifeform) 2020-10-08 gregorynyssa: are the George Floyd riots still happening? really?
(alethepedia) snsabot: (asciilifeform) 2020-10-10 gregorynyssa: interesting fact: nearly every country is mentioned at least once in the logs of #trilema
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: no worries
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-11 20:10:14 thimbronion: alethepedia project status: gregorynyssa has done some work implement some heuristics to generate a map of encyclopedia entries by line number in a db. There is more work yet to be done as the heuristics have yet to be applied to all available volumes.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: alethepedia project status: gregorynyssa has done some work implement some heuristics to generate a map of encyclopedia entries by line number in a db. There is more work yet to be done as the heuristics have yet to be applied to all available volumes.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: regarding encyclopedia-3446.txt, I believe I will also need the line number db to do anything with this.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: 组合 is a new word for me, but having another go: Miao Wang thinks - "these four people who came to find him are a strange combination (of people)"
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: in the unidirectional shitweb we have today, only the site owner, host, or google knows what links to any given page. In a bidirectional web, this incoming links are explicit.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: in wordpress, bidirectionality is implemented via pingbacks. Any time you mention someone elses' article, you create a link on their article back to yours with a snippet of context.
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-08 08:14:27 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: 他的这四个人 is very probelmatic for me. Best I can do is "Miao Wang feels that to find these four people of his is a very strange combination."
(asciilifeform) BingoBoingo: gregorynyssa: Well, in Uruguay's case asian means cattle amenable to herding like post-war Japan. Except here it didn't take a war. Just a flood of Italians arriving in ranching country
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: 他的这四个人 is very probelmatic for me. Best I can do is "Miao Wang feels that to find these four people of his is a very strange combination."
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-07 18:54:46 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: maybe they'll achieve some Chinese version of first world.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-07 18:44:47 gregorynyssa: now that the Southeast Asian countries are approaching first-world conditions, I wonder if South America will follow.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-07 18:33:29 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-07#1022915 << I thought Argentina was a first-world country. how could looters operate in broad daylight without the police seeking to arrest them?
(asciilifeform) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: maybe they'll achieve some Chinese version of first world.
(asciilifeform) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: I haven't been to Chile, can't comment.
(asciilifeform) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: Argentina is not a first world country.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: I don't quite understand how to use 让. I most often hear it used as a way to express something like "He caused me to do <x>", but I also get the impression it can be used to express "allow?" Is this true? Is there a way to know the difference other than context?
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: prediction market
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho it is not even deliberate (as in commercial works) secrecy that explains 'you will not see quality softs'. simply the fact that garbage is what becomes popular by attracting 'fixers'.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: several such co.'s were revealed (e.g. 'orbitz') at one time or another
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: not only 'attempt', but , as noted earlier, most of the req'd pieces already on asciilifeform's desk. simply, haven't currently any reason to hurry to glue'em further.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: i expect at least handful of folx not only tried, but succeeded. simply, found no incentive to publish .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: now i'm thoroughly confused. diminishes ?!
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 19:08:15 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: so, what? to write emulator (for whatever current or future irons) in which these can live, is trivial exercise .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: so, what? to write emulator (for whatever current or future irons) in which these can live, is trivial exercise .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: why exactly not ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho there aint anyffin wrong w/ trying ( jfw, for instance, went off to sell trb. i have nfi, however, what became of this.. ) but be aware of the history of folx trying to profit from 'better compiler' and similar .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: no one is going to ever massively profit from writing a better (for any sense of word) btc client. imho the reason for this is quite obvious, does not need elaborate explanation.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: it's exactly same bind as for other opensores products.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: eth is usg's Official 'replacement' for bitcoin. see logs.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: not all known, sadly.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: it aint as if there were no gangsters in usa, but imho problem is 99% fictional (i.e. monster w/ which to frighten 'whitebread' suburbanites into crowding in high-tax districts and paying for mega-inflated real estate there )
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 16:11:35 gregorynyssa: intelligent people across the world still immigrate to America in the race to enter
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho the focus on incomes is organized misdirection.
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 16:14:37 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: most of usa's 'spacious home and cars' people are in abject debt , and 1-2 missed paycheques from penury.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: most of usa's 'spacious home and cars' people are in abject debt , and 1-2 missed paycheques from penury.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the house which was setting for the film, most recently iirc sold for ~$10m.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: 'possible' is a broad word.
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 16:02:28 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: admittedly asciilifeform not a cn expert. but afaik cn culture suffers from severe 'worship of wealth' as concept; and catastrophically underdeveloped concept of 'motherland' (in sense of 'not to betray')
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: and yes entirely same type of trick as perpetrated via fingerpuppets yeltsin & co. in same period.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: admittedly asciilifeform not a cn expert. but afaik cn culture suffers from severe 'worship of wealth' as concept; and catastrophically underdeveloped concept of 'motherland' (in sense of 'not to betray')
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 16:01:01 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the anglos pulled their usual 'integrate'em into (controlled) 'global market', then kill'em w/ financial machinations' stunt.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the anglos pulled their usual 'integrate'em into (controlled) 'global market', then kill'em w/ financial machinations' stunt.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: japan -- 2 catastrophic modernizations. (1) upper 19th c.: meiji/civil wars. (2) conquest by usa in '45.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the most terrifying thing, to a civilization, is a 'pepsi' -- i.e. alternative model that folx might defect to, because in some (sometimes many) respects is superior. then, 'carthago delenda est', the disinfo is slathered on in kilometre-deep strata, and even very idea of honest picture of what took place becomes pipe dream
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the english historians (and pretentious amateurs) focus almost exclusively on the discontinuities (given as these were events w/ anglo involvement) but entirely forget re the 1000+ (or in case of cn, 5000+) yrs of entirely divergent cultural hist.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: indeed, most n00bs to the subj are quite astonished when faced w/ the depth of the hell.
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: picture if someone were to ask you same q re china ! would 200yrs be enuff to answer ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the principal difficulty in 'rewrite trb', historically, is the massive bag of bugs an' warts, where omitting any particular item risks an exploitable (quiet 'fork') break of compatibility in unspecified future
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:07:35 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: he was also, in asciilifeform's pov, a laughable ignoramus re: all sovok-related subjs
(alethepedia) snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:07:01 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: fella wasn't particularly consistent. so impossible to 'agree w/ all'
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: he was also, in asciilifeform's pov, a laughable ignoramus re: all sovok-related subjs
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: fella wasn't particularly consistent. so impossible to 'agree w/ all'
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: he wasn't sued -- was sacked from his professorship. sued (successfully) for reinstatement. 2nd time -- nfi. 'made offer that can't refuse'(tm) presumably.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: but this does not yet add up to 'rewrite trb'.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: apologies if sowed confusion : danimal was pseudonym of an american, who lived in iirc ohio. he was active on usenet in early 2000s. ilkka kokkarinen, otoh, a finn, emigrated to canada and to this day (afaik) teaches comp sci. was censored twice, once sued and reinstated, 2nd time -- apparently perma-hushed
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: not familiar w/ peterson
(alethepedia) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: see also.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: netsplit is simply when fleanode nodes get disconnected from one another and go outta sync for a time.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa as IRS agent is a terrifying alternate universe to consider
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: honestly haven't read Gatto since the early 2000s, while trapped in a government cube farm.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: have you read John Taylor Gatto?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-27 16:17:40 gregorynyssa: something about it seemed troubling when I was reading it.. couldn't put my finger on it.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: also in this case I'm not clear on what 了 indicates. It's not like the monster didn't want to kill him *before* coming to find him.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: There's something odd about the use of 了here: 我只记得那个姑娘是个妖怪,它来找我,要杀了我。Why isn't the 了after 我?
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: wrong window again?
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: ty.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-26 22:19:07 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: given your previous comments about randomness and whitening, am I right in guessing that you consider [this article][http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/] to be dishonest propaganda?
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: Thanks - I had forgotten the rule about proper verbs and adverbs.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: I recently encountered 猜测. Is this digraph more often used than just 猜alone?
(asciilifeform) Aerthean: gregorynyssa, asciilifeform: As a poor hypothesis, I think that the more software practitioners abstract away from hardware the worse things become.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: not simply mid-90s, but specifically end of msdos era.
(alethepedia) thimbronion: welcome gregorynyssa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: wb gregorynyssa
(alethepedia) thimbronion: adlai: This channel is mostly about lekythion, secondarily about alethepedia, and tertially about mandarin chinese study. If gregorynyssa ever joins, there will be many great discussions of Chinese languages to be had.
(asciilifeform) feedbot: http://thimbron.com/2020/09/notes-on-chinese-from-gregorynyssa/ << Thimbron -- Notes on Chinese from gregorynyssa
(asciilifeform) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: Vernor Vinge?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-24 14:43:55 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: btw. since you seem to be a fan of science-fiction, maybe The Three Body Problem by Liu Cixin would interest you.
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: I'd have no context for an opinion, but you'd say the simplified script had no political (e.g. orwellian) aim?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: was speaking of mao's 'simplifications'
(asciilifeform) trinque: heh, latter has been unhappened gregorynyssa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: iirc mats also '2nd gen' , and knows chinese, but the somewhat incompat. tw (i.e. pre-revolution) variant
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: interesting, have any sources on discussing the difference?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: can read as well as speak ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: outta curiosity, 2nd gen what ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the method adopted to train armies of supposedly-needed mindless clerks, consists largely of the latter.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there are 2 quite distinct items both being marketed , for past 2 centuries or so, as 'education'. 1 being actual education, i.e. from 'educe', 'bring out'. the other -- animal training.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: melvil dewey (whose decimal), not john dewey (who helped fuck ameri-education)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: it did. i actually barfed when ~decade later, reread
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: might take some work to get, 'gizmosphere' has been outta print for a coupla yrs. but i expect you could still find it
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: you can also buy minipcie vga card and stuff it into apu1, even. at one time i did this for an industrial proj.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-24 12:40:58 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-24#1020298 << we need an APU1 with VGA.
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa, why do I need such a thing?
(asciilifeform) deedbot: asciilifeform rated gregorynyssa 1 at 2020/06/30 12:09:56 << reader & #a denizen.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: !!rated gregorynyssa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: !!key gregorynyssa
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-23 05:32:43 gregorynyssa: in other news, a tutorial was released relatively recently, trying to use glossy demonstrations to help modern-minded programmers understand the design of X Window.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-22 14:14:33 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: suppose we don't use any FPGA. suppose you directly owned a fabrication-facility and could perform your own runs on whim. how low does the process-width have to be, for it to be worth your time?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-22 14:05:24 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-22#1020101 << yep. MIT's CAR and CADR, for instance. but I meant implementing your own peripherals for the FPGA using TTL, not an entire CPU. cf. the late 1980s CGA or EGA graphics adapters with the little eight-bit micro-controllers.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: for that matter, bolix's 'ivory' was a 2uM item.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-22 01:11:29 gregorynyssa: nuclear engineering students today know how to rebuild 1940s atomic bombs at a fraction of what it had cost that era. someone should likewise re-trace the machinery of 1985 from first principles.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-22 01:04:21 gregorynyssa: (1) some universities have small VLSI facilities. see if you can get a deal to use those. (2) start your own coarse-grained fabrication-facility. 100-500 nm is fine for the next ten years of Lisp Machine revival. I don't think < 100 nm is necessary. presumably the costs of building such a facility have decreased compared to the 1980s.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-22 00:54:11 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-20#1020010 << what you are looking for is arguably not an FPGA, but a bag of LUTs. the interface between the LUTs and one's work-computer is something which he could implement by himself using TTL and PCB.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-16 10:47:08 trinque: gregorynyssa: the point at which I tune out is when I offer an avenue of research, and the creature baws, gets strangely emotional, and repeats the simpleton question.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-16 02:25:46 gregorynyssa: it semes to me that kiwi_58 was worried that a legal crack-down against USDT would harm the price of BTC.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-16 02:21:27 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: Tether (USDT) is a Bitcoin-like currency supposedly pegged 1-1 to USD. widely used by online exchanges. market cap. of 10 bil. USD. however, there have been continual allegations of insecurity and fraud, but the trading public mostly turns a blind eye.
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: the point at which I tune out is when I offer an avenue of research, and the creature baws, gets strangely emotional, and repeats the simpleton question.
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: sure, it was quite clear what food pellet he wanted.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 03:05:51 gregorynyssa: do you think the 1971 cancellation of the gold standard played a role?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 03:04:22 gregorynyssa: I mean, why buying power has plummeted, and working hours have not decreased.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 03:04:56 gregorynyssa: Mill once noted that labor-saving devices never end up saving labor.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho the 'feminists vs catholics' or 'irish vs polacks' etc of 20th c usa are simply symptomatic distractions, rather than prime movers.
(asciilifeform) trinque: hm, how much have you traveled in the US gregorynyssa?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: in 1 form or another, this has gone on since darwin
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: my cosmography is rather different. the 'shared enemy' is alive & well, and succeeded in replacing 100% of movements with 'movements' constructed to sum to 0.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: or didja mean graeber ? (who i also haven't previously heard of)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the typical algo is, '1) pick yer favourite personally-annoying people 2) thatswhodunit! they killed civilization!1' roughly
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: did this fella not believe in paragraphs ?!
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: it long ago went from 'mistake, like leaded petrol' to deliberate 'job-creating tech' fraud.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: aha, quite well-documented
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 12:32:01 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the much larger scale thing that happened in 1980s usa, is that there was a shift in the values of the elites. went from 'built sr-71 blackbird' to 'liquidate, merge, move 100% conveyor to asia, buy 9000x yacht'
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: it's rather like to say that man who lost both legs in a wreck 'lost interest in running'
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the much larger scale thing that happened in 1980s usa, is that there was a shift in the values of the elites. went from 'built sr-71 blackbird' to 'liquidate, merge, move 100% conveyor to asia, buy 9000x yacht'
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 02:24:01 gregorynyssa: and how do you view the purported ongoing AI Renaissance, catalyzed by DeepMind and TensorFlow?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 02:18:44 gregorynyssa: did the proliferation of UNIX play a role?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: if you picture tech development as a 'hill-climb' search -- there are 'peaks' that can only be reached by plowing through lotsa 'valley' by ~brute force. i.e. high-risk, ruinously-expensive experimentation.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 02:15:29 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: what exactly happened during the Lisp Winter? always wondered.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the way 'macivory' worx -- it sits in that mac, and the latter boots normally, then you run their console proggy -- which handles screen, kbd, and disk i/o for the card, and gives you a standard bolix console on normal vga monitor.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-11 01:38:09 gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: if I understand correctly, MacIvory was like a graphics-card containing a LISP environment, which could be plugged into the Macintosh, is that right?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-08 23:14:39 gregorynyssa: verisimilitude: the data-model of Emacs gets uglier the more you study it, not unlike Git.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-08 23:06:10 gregorynyssa: one of the catalysts for my disillusionment was when I decided (as a college student) to exhaustively read all the available documentation for GNU Emacs, front-to-back (thousands of pages) to better understand this platform which I was using every day. unlike many systems Emacs does reward learning... up to a point...
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa, verisimilitude : if only wooden jokes in the docs were the only problem in gnu world..
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: I'm truly not seeing the issue here, gregorynyssa. If wanting to read documentation devoid of any humanity, why not visit Github's official documentation?
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: That's not the way to learn Emacs, gregorynyssa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: same way as ocean imprisons shipwrecked sailor clinging to a plank.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: from the very beginning c had ~nonexistent insulation from certain machine-specific behaviours. e.g. integer overflow.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: They were what I deem ``intelligent idiots'', gregorynyssa. They may have been physicists, but that doesn't mean they'd any place designing a computer system.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: This isn't POSIX, gregorynyssa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: indeed. one of the main reasons i picked up ada is the strict minimum of 'impl.-defined' crapola and the existence of a ~paper~ standard.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: POSIX idiots are infuriating, gregorynyssa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there is a concept of 'downward pressure' that slows down and mostly prevents breakage at low level by wreckers.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: observe that linux syscalls actually return eggog codes directly, when req'd.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: libc is retarded, primarily because requires the 20GB of ????? liquishit to even bootstrap. even the ultracompact musl.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: how do you suppose statically-linked proggies (e.g. trb, or ave1's gnat) work ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the idea is to not only throw out gcc, but to eventually replant on naked iron relatively painlessly.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho 'M' is a fairly complete guide not only to mips arch (as was intended) but to asm-on-amd64 in totality.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: write the reader in the lisp per se. in asm, implement only 'secd-like' item; the init. lisp world write using asm macros. then, when have working world, rewrite inside the lisp.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: mno. on linux, mmap/remap, and whatever allocator + gc write in the lisp per se.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho even an item written in ordinary amd64 asm (for starters) would fit the bill. so long as it is done correctly -- i.e. ONLY implement in asm what absolutely cannot be moved into the lispy 2nd layer of init. 'world'.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: plz elaborate re 'idiomatic cisc' ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: these are a dime a dozen. and not very interesting to me, on acct of what it takes to bootstrap that with which you can then build 'few hundred lines of c'.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-07 11:33:57 trinque: gregorynyssa: busybox also has a tiny wget, might be worthwhile to take a look and see how bad it is
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: busybox also has a tiny wget, might be worthwhile to take a look and see how bad it is
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: I'd be very happy to use an in-wot, significantly decrufted curl.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: this is leaving aside the 64e3 $ question, of why the everliving fuck does a z80 ~need~ an 'os'.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: 'Built from a POSIX environment with minimal tooling: only cc, make and ncurses are needed.' << lol, 'minimal'
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-27 05:38:54 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-24#1017075 << this reminds me of chapter 7 of UNIX-HATERS Handbook: "Why would you ever need to point to something that you've drawn in 3D?"
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-26 04:55:30 gregorynyssa: what is stopping us from writing our own implementation of Ada, if I might ask?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-26 04:45:02 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-25#1017215 << the difficulty of setting up static linking (and cross-compilation) is a deliberate conspiracy by GNU. related to this earlier remark.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-25 12:07:37 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: ... or, read just about any ball of py liquishit on shithub. all the thoroughly redundant oop you could ever want, in there .
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-25 12:05:00 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: very good point re oopism. and arguably descended, at least in part, from much older american traditions of 'salvation through method'
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: ... or, read just about any ball of py liquishit on shithub. all the thoroughly redundant oop you could ever want, in there .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho it is sadly mistake to suppose that 'oop worship died' -- rather it became a stolid 'state church', in e.g. the uncountable blighted java saltmines , the oopism prayer wheels turn to this day
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: very good point re oopism. and arguably descended, at least in part, from much older american traditions of 'salvation through method'
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 12:31:14 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: outta curiosity -- didja ever actually program in that horror, or simply find appealing in theory ?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 13:10:45 adlai: gregorynyssa: re:unorthogonality, C++ is also unorthogonal to the point of eating its own spine, yet somehow one or two blubhubs still seem to hire C++ programmers
(asciilifeform) adlai: gregorynyssa: re:unorthogonality, C++ is also unorthogonal to the point of eating its own spine, yet somehow one or two blubhubs still seem to hire C++ programmers
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: outta curiosity -- didja ever actually program in that horror, or simply find appealing in theory ?
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 10:59:36 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-19#1016727 << before 8.5, everything was either: a string, a (nestable) list of strings, or a hashmap. lists of strings were encoded as strings (like JSON but simpler; the AST of every program itself was represented this way). a hashmap was a (one level) mapping from string to string. file-handles and sockets were represented as strings (such as "file1," "file2," ...) which were understood
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 10:44:13 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-19#1016726 << the "uplevel" primitive is a general way of allowing functions to choose whether they are pass-by-value or pass-by-reference. it enables other tricks as well, including, I believe, Scheme-like continuations.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 09:36:47 gregorynyssa: for instance, Tcl follows Smalltalk in not having control-structures. conditions and loops are just function-calls with delayed evaluation. that makes the semantics more concise.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 09:24:20 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-19#1016709 << because Common Lisp is "bloated and unorthogonal" while Scheme is "minimal to the point of uselessness."
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-19 08:41:53 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-18#1016686 << no truly exemplary platform exists, but pre-Unicode Tcl comes closest, I would say. have you tried that yet? the next closest competitors would be Forth and Smalltalk. all three of these languages are "not quite LISPs."
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: correct. and similar problem w/ post-2013 amd products (tho must note, the net mass of vendor liquishit they require to boot, is substantially smaller vs intel's)
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: lol, what 'better documentation' ?! i have a shelf-sized full set o'docs for opteron + their gpu. where do i get intel's ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the js highlighter is simply blunt text offset pair.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: unfortunately the resemblance is skin deep -- in nelson's scheme, transcluded object ~knows~ that it was transcluded, and, conversely, the transclusions ~know~ when it has moved
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: re tesio -- he aint wrong re wwwism, but i can't help but fall down & laff at fact that he hosts this essay on 'medium', where serves up MBs of liquishit, incl. js
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: plz put link 1st, then text if you want it to work in logger
(asciilifeform) trinque: gregorynyssa: the marketing people latch onto any meme they can; this one's distinct in no way.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the only difference b/w the 2 is protocol# field..
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-07 16:30:03 gregorynyssa: very interested in 9th and 11th editions of Britannica.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: see also .
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: best i can tell, public idiots have a kind of 'ostrich' psychology, persuade selves that logging somehow 'isn't happening' if not public/searchable
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: esp. given that fleanode/usg logs universally.
(asciilifeform) thimbronion: gregorynyssa: I am very excited to see how this turns out.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: search #t logs for clim
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: believe or not, i only use emacs to edit text (proggies & human txt), i dun abuse it as wwwtron, or irc client etc
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: problem was that asciilifeform dun have 20y to devote to writing a font renderer.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-03 14:20:01 gregorynyssa: excellent observation at the beginning as well: support for rich text in 2020 is also alarmingly bad.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: As with other languages doing this, there's a subset of Chinese Hanzi used solely for their sounds, perhaps akin to the Japanese katakana, by my understanding, gregorynyssa.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: I'm glad that article of mine was enjoyed, gregorynyssa; I'm in the process of rewriting all of my older articles, and that one could be improved.
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-07-02 20:27:24 gregorynyssa: few programmers have had the courage to call out "never roll your own crypto" as propaganda.
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-02#1015656 I agree, gregorynyssa. I claim that, after OpenSSL, it should be obvious to all that only fools make this suggestion, and that those who supposedly should clearly aren't qualified; it creates a perverse selection, where the least qualified do the work.
(asciilifeform) ben_vulpes: merci, monsieur gregorynyssa
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the morons suffer from very different problem than 'no actual crypto avail.' consider, even ye olde gpg is galaxies ahead of the nonsense they were using (and PAYING! for.) but for'em may as well not existed.
(asciilifeform) deedbot: asciilifeform rated gregorynyssa 1 << reader & #a denizen.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: !!rate gregorynyssa 1 reader & #a denizen.
(asciilifeform) deedbot: 67227A5E4F5B000B5D3FE975E1E421057AEDB38C registered as gregorynyssa.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: 'pgpdump' is a useful util, btw, if yer not familiar
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: see also.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: GregoryNyssa: see also.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: GregoryNyssa: you may have misconception re trb tho. i certainly did not write it from 0 (ugh, ever seen the thing..?) , it was taken at 1st from ancient bitcoin (0.5.3) and then cut ( by asciilifeform & several other folx , see e.g. this chronology )
(asciilifeform) snsabot: Logged on 2020-06-28 20:13:53 GregoryNyssa: did you read Bitcoin's C++ codebase and work backwards?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: GregoryNyssa: link plz ?
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: GregoryNyssa: i have no idea, fella never yet linked to his item.
(asciilifeform) asciilifeform: welcome to #a, GregoryNyssa


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