(trilema) spyked: !!v 9E6F6B0FFA445BA0C5E02758B2BE677459BB0045720B2B45D1AC8CFB31A1E780
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-03 19:46 spyked: mircea_popescu, it's good timing, since I've been doing some reading ircbot code and comparing with my own implementation. I've actually been contemplating http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-26#1786288 and rolling my own was not a wholly useless endeavour, i.e. http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#selection-322.0-322.5 so I'll document the whole thing on the blog.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-12-30 22:12 asciilifeform: to round off thread -- asciilifeform very much enjoying rewriting ( and it is , yes , a total rewrite ) ffa
(trilema) spyked: now, the reason why this has been taking me so long is that I hoped I would publish the pieces as I went along. but this is harder than it looked, had to write what is now unreadable (other than by myself) prototype, then (point c. on my list) I'll have to rewrite/refactor and then publish. all this despite the fact that this is "known item", not FFA.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( commandline items like ffa generally work; anything with video/audio -- prepare to suffer )
(trilema) douchebag: JiS5ap43JXiUFFAaQ==
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-18 21:17 fettiffany: because socialism is crap, that's what has destroyed my country
(trilema) trinque: sure, just describing current state of affairs.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-07-13 15:16 asciilifeform: the other thing to remember, is that the win from writing in ada - but not in ada in general, but the style demonstrated in ffa in particular -- remains even if YOU HAVE NO ACCESS TO GNAT and gotta compile by hand into asm. because it forces the style of algo that CAN be safely so expressed - i.e. without presumption of pointerolade arithmetic, gc, or other cost-externalizing electrosocialisms
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-18 21:34 fettiffany: they all complain, they march and protest but it's useless.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-05-18 20:29 fettiffany: actually i have no idea what this site is
(trilema) deedbot: fettiffany voiced for 30 minutes.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: !!up fettiffany
(trilema) ben_vulpes: fettiffany: are folks buying/selling bitcoins and dollars? how are folks defending against the inflation
(trilema) BingoBoingo: fettiffany: From what I understand they get it in the mail from people outside the country and the mail gets stolen in transit.
(trilema) trinque: fettiffany: I'm curious, how widespread is the realization in venezuela that "socialism is crap"?
(trilema) deedbot: fettiffany voiced for 30 minutes.
(trilema) BingoBoingo: !!up fettiffany
(trilema) BingoBoingo: fettiffany: Qué otros paises tiene amigos y familia que se fue?
(trilema) hanbot: fettiffany tenes que hacer uno, es siempre un buen idea. mientras tanto hay mucho aqui para leer, como la historia diaria http://btcbase.org/log/ , y por supuesto el blog de mircea_popescu. me imagine que el va a ser activo aqui mas tarde hoy.
(trilema) hanbot: fettiffany what's your mother tongue (first language)?
(trilema) hanbot: fettiffany, make any sense to you? and whaddya do with yourself when not stumbling into spooky irc dens?
(trilema) deedbot: fettiffany voiced for 30 minutes.
(trilema) mod6: !!up fettiffany
(trilema) ben_vulpes: fettiffany: here's some more context http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt
(trilema) mod6: fettiffany: read http://deedbot.org/help.html and get yourself a PGP key, and register it with deedbot per help page.
(trilema) mod6: !!reputation fettiffany
(trilema) deedbot: fettiffany voiced for 30 minutes.
(trilema) mod6: !!up fettiffany
(trilema) deedbot: fettiffany voiced for 30 minutes.
(trilema) asciilifeform: !!up fettiffany
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:48 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 << ah damn, sir. Why are you playing with knives here. It was obvious a long time ago that mircea_popescu just wanted you to submit. You can't block the king from intervening in lordly affairs in his own kingdom.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( the thing weighs far too much for anyone to ever audit in the sense contemplated with e.g. ffa )
(trilema) asciilifeform: e.g., ldd ./bin/ffa_calc returns
(trilema) asciilifeform: i built a ch10 ffa with it, and the result runs.
(trilema) asciilifeform: AAAAAAnd we have a winner! ave1's musltronic gnat builds static, musltronic ffa !!!!
(trilema) mircea_popescu: fromdeedbot, you can also compile alf's ffa and do it all by hand :D
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( and ffa correspondingly delay by a new month ... )
(trilema) asciilifeform: thing is, i also have massively overdue item that i'm in the process of rolling out ( reignition of ffa series ! )
(trilema) deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4A308D3BE72368D73D087C8232A993D4EA6EB720FFA63E121231BCCD77E7315F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1615...4883 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.236.238.102 (ssh-rsa key from 91.236.238.102 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU)
(trilema) mod6: One other thing about ada-vtron, at the time, I was using system commands to execute `gnupg'. Where as now, perhaps we can use ffa/peh.
(trilema) mod6: see, I did think that alf had produced something of this kind that was connected to ffa.
(trilema) asciilifeform: and it worx for building e.g. ffa.
(trilema) asciilifeform: b&w photography is imho correctly seen as 'garage affair', notwithstanding that not 1 in 100,000 photohobbyists could produce the film
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( of the compiler that you produced, that is, when it builds e.g. ffa )
(trilema) ave1: I build it with gnatmake -Pffa_demo.gpr (I did this up to chapter 3 so far)
(trilema) asciilifeform: i'll point out, this is not equivalent to 'build ffa', the gpr file is part of ffa, and contains essential functionality ( mainly , incorporates the restriction flags, mandates staticity )
(trilema) ave1: asciilifeform, that work has been done, it builds a native compiler with gcc/g++ and gnatmake but not with gprbuild yet (this last one can be build on the target machine). I can build the FFA code on an aarch64 machine with the resulting compiler.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i'ma read comments/barfology laters; off to ffa room nao!
(trilema) deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A15D93A29368C0ED998F14D5FB4ACD4324BF3F8683943FFA0E8A4105476CCC95 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1367...3291 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.38.182.218 (ssh-rsa key from 177.38.182.218 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (177-38-182-218.micks.com.br. BR)
(trilema) deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AD82CE9418960169EA33E219FA3E009C42AE3CCD6E415148FFA2CCAA3E54F4C8 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2316...0431 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '216.194.127.240 (ssh-rsa key from 216.194.127.240 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (littleblue.rockpenguin.com. US UT)
(trilema) deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C300E7F53E93306CE671E9C2BEE2440C21AE8142202BD8E090FFA40BFF361FDA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2358...5309 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '50.16.76.136 (ssh-rsa key from 50.16.76.136 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ec2-50-16-76-136.compute-1.amazonaws.com. US VA)
(trilema) trinque: have you built your own trb node? used V? understood it? do you have a working gnat? built asciilifeform's ffa? built diana_coman's eucrypt? stood up a gentoo from scratch? fertile ground all over.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: so, if your desert march results in a jewel of code, a la ffa, sure. if your desert march results in ample "lulz" as we call them, ie, intricate, unforgiving documentation of orcs' idiocy, sure.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: in other obscura, "Koresh had an affair with the then-prophetess of the Branch Davidians Lois Roden, while he was in his late 20s and she was in her late 60s. "\
(trilema) mircea_popescu: nevermind phaedo. socrates tried, his whole life, to make people capable of standing on their own. and his products, among which plato is a minor outlier, held that bloody affair, where most of the city was gutted.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: that way you can move into the future, conduct your negotiations as "three bitcents for 9348aafb and 2.5 bitcents for ffa03994"
(trilema) spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797815 <-- must confess that I am eager to read FFA spark.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: !!v BCBF03DA53D0411F7C81BC7367C96AF0488FFAC5FB83261C5A550C1A258C6AED
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( or see the ffa article series, http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=49 , currently on sabbatical but due to resume after i come back from upcoming biznistrip )
(trilema) asciilifeform: no-dynamic-allocation is also a Good Thing, for instance in my FFA crypto lib ( http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=49 ) this property exists
(trilema) mircea_popescu: it is not written upon reality that it must endure forever, let it mind it's own fucking affairs and endure if it has the mettle ; nor was any penguin born with a certified license to eternal life. let them learn how to forge and fire cannon or let them get the fuck off the evolutionary tree.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-11 10:39 shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796166 <<< I think the time for grace has passed, and if it isn't clear enough already I won't be wasting anymore time participating in Republican affairs since obviously I have nothing else to contribute. I did, in fact, offer to help you add the gribble functions to your bot or share my version of the plugins (Which incidentally, don't require any of the stuff you
(trilema) shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-11#1796166 <<< I think the time for grace has passed, and if it isn't clear enough already I won't be wasting anymore time participating in Republican affairs since obviously I have nothing else to contribute. I did, in fact, offer to help you add the gribble functions to your bot or share my version of the plugins (Which incidentally, don't require any of the stuff you
(trilema) mircea_popescu: * mircea_popescu has changed the topic to: You have reached the public forum of The Most Serene Republic, a terrorist organisation dedicated to the creation of a safe space for the elites to productively defect to, leaving the pantsuit stranded behind. If you'd like to help see http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ . This channel is logged.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-04-04 00:46 asciilifeform: phf: i was vaguely hoping he might grasp this by playing with pehbot / reading ffa ; but loox like no dice so far
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: i was vaguely hoping he might grasp this by playing with pehbot / reading ffa ; but loox like no dice so far
(trilema) spyked: mircea_popescu, it's good timing, since I've been doing some reading ircbot code and comparing with my own implementation. I've actually been contemplating http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-26#1786288 and rolling my own was not a wholly useless endeavour, i.e. http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#selection-322.0-322.5 so I'll document the whole thing on the blog.
(trilema) asciilifeform: btw, ftr : ffa comes back from sabbatical next wk !
(trilema) mircea_popescu: i expect. well, my other advice is don't take anywhere any girl who's not comfortable naked in public, but i dun wanna mix in others' affairs, so.
(trilema) mod6: which is the only version i've been able to stand up that seems to work 100% with ffa.
(trilema) asciilifeform: hanbot, mircea_popescu , et al : observe in phf's http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools-vpatch/tree/vtools/vdiff.gpr , he did not forbid the linking of libc into the library ( as i did in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/ffa.gpr#L46 ) . apparently this worx on some gnat, but on hanbot's -- barfs
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( on my systems i init the FG's tty at boot, so i did not bake it into ffacalc )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: we will evidently have a ffa-based, canonical gpg replacement. EVENTUALLY. until such an eventually, i don't feel so great recommending anyone gpg (or, heavens help us, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774477 -- just as i had to do, and recently). so a drop-in, eucrypt-based, "good enough" item is more than useful.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-03-08 14:38 ave1: I've started on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-28#1786498, in Ada code and now I'm debating if I shouldn't just move the code to C as the eucrypt interface is C. But then maybe eucrypt will move to FFA someday in the future and Ada will be a benifit. (Working on code with lot's of C calls in Ada is not nice...)
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-08#1787224 << i don't expect eucrypt will ever move to ffa. this is in no sense a disidence, or any negative comment on ffa whatsoever. they are intended and designed as very different usecase solutions -- note the speed differential incumbent. eucrypt works as a "good enough" item, it principally intends to support a game, and same-level crypto needs. it's consequently to be light, fast, and ~r
(trilema) ave1: I've started on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-28#1786498, in Ada code and now I'm debating if I shouldn't just move the code to C as the eucrypt interface is C. But then maybe eucrypt will move to FFA someday in the future and Ada will be a benifit. (Working on code with lot's of C calls in Ada is not nice...)
(trilema) asciilifeform: it so happens that i've designed exactly such a device. but it will be filled with ffaware, not koch. and all things in their proper time.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: bill gates, like any other "oligarch", was made in ye olde socialist manner of "the great inca decrees so-and-so is to fill the role of great rich businessman". it is entirely a paper-only affair of the substance, and of the nature, AND EVEN OF THE FORM! of "joining the hood", carefully not to be scam, and rich through having numbers in bank account etc.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ada folx: re making ada strings out of the c variety : strlen(char *) is a potentially lethal op ( suppose the nullterminator is missing ) so it will never be called implicitly by ada. you gotta either call strlen deliberately on c side, and then form ( can be on stack , declare ... Foo : String(1 .. Length) ... , say, a la http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc#L53 ) a proper ada string and copy the cstring into it.
(trilema) pinochle: long time log eater, taking steps a la http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/
(trilema) deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06c-ffa-egypt-proof.html << The Tar Pit - Egyptian div and mul "work": a correctness proof for the arithmetic operations in FFA Chapter 5
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-02-23 15:45 mod6: I was thinking lsat night about my version of V in Ada, and am using shellouts there for the gpg related things. even with an integrated FFA, still need to add in an integrated Keccac from s.mg - those two I can work around. Others might be harder than it sounds.
(trilema) mod6: I was thinking lsat night about my version of V in Ada, and am using shellouts there for the gpg related things. even with an integrated FFA, still need to add in an integrated Keccac from s.mg - those two I can work around. Others might be harder than it sounds.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: meanwhile being able to authoritatively answer "buy X, not Y" is very valuable, because unlike the above scenario, where time you expend actually dampens republican affairs (as for every dT you put in, everyone has to put in some d'T as well), this on the contrary leverages : for every dT you put in, everyone DOESN'T have to put in some d''T.
(trilema) spyked: hey mod6, I just checked v99993 using ffa ch1-5 and also used it to test a press of phf's vtools and it works fine. NB: Debian systems are now pretty much broken and won't allow setting the default gpg to v1, so I had to manually replace the gpg calls in v.pl to use gpg1.
(trilema) lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784318 << ah damn, sir. Why are you playing with knives here. It was obvious a long time ago that mircea_popescu just wanted you to submit. You can't block the king from intervening in lordly affairs in his own kingdom.
(trilema) mod6: mircea_popescu: well, never the less, I'm still very much behind the utility of ffa
(trilema) asciilifeform: mod6 tried his hand at 'tester of whether ffa really does constanttime modexp'; asciilifeform comments on 1 set of output. is all.
(trilema) asciilifeform: that way you will not exhaust memory (gcc's default stack) when you use genuinely massive ffawidth
(trilema) asciilifeform: after that you can e.g. time echo "??\`\`*[print 0x]##[ == 0x]#[ * 0x]#" | ./bin/ffa_calc 1048576 32 lotsaones.bin | tr -d '\n' | python
(trilema) asciilifeform: so you get however many you want, you got it by simply using ffacalc to compute the desired integer.
(trilema) asciilifeform: echo ".0~#" | ./bin/ffa_calc 1048576 32 | xxd -r -p > lotsaones.bin
(trilema) asciilifeform: a pro seekrit : you can pipe ffacalc output to base64 -d
(trilema) asciilifeform: this is a deterministic test. ffacalc is made deliberately to permit one.
(trilema) asciilifeform: but know that 'iron mul' has been re-introduced (will be made selectable soon enuff) and you can use ch10 ffa to diagnose 'evil' cpu
(trilema) asciilifeform: time echo "??\`\`*[print 0x]##[ == 0x]#[ * 0x]#" | ./bin/ffa_calc 1048576 32 /dev/urandom | tr -d '\n' | python
(trilema) asciilifeform: >> http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch10_karatsuba << ty phf !
(trilema) mircea_popescu: never you mind, you've got the ffa to do.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: but, in any case, more of a curio/bikeshed than anything i think. overclocking isn't likely to have more than a 1% if tyhat impact either way in bbisp affairs.
(trilema) asciilifeform: hanbot: and indeed i'm still grunting out prev item (ffa ch10 ) in conveyor.
(trilema) asciilifeform only nao finished the proggy for ffa ch10, a backbreaker. nao for the text...
(trilema) gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: unfortunately not. Am here because I finally have a nice setup where I won't get kicked regularly. While I have been reading some FFA and DC I do not have anything running at the moment
(trilema) asciilifeform: hey gabriel_laddel -- other than substances... do anything noteworthy in recent times ? ever read ffa series ? interested in s.bisp ? read diana_coman's www ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 23:02 asciilifeform: libffa ( the actual arithmetism ) is cumulatively ~1900 loc, (80col!11) inclusive of whitespace , banners, and commentolade ; ffacalc apparatus another ~900, ditto.
(trilema) asciilifeform: xahlee: intro reading -- http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779409 << this should prolly be standard preface of ada behaviour discussions ; ffa or non-ffa related. asciilifeform maybe you should add it as a comment you know ? at the top of the pile, "if anything's strange say @me in #trilema, please preface the saying with and-here's-my-grep-v"
(trilema) asciilifeform: in other experiments, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-09#1767440 appears to hold true across all ffa chapters.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ^ for reasons unknown to me, ada's standard character i/o routines mutilate newlines. so ffacalc imports the standard unixland ones.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the 'main is in ada; some imports from c' variant is also illustrated in ffa, in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc/tree/ffa/ffacalc/cmdline.ads
(trilema) mp_en_viaje: incredible supply of these, by the way. nfi what the fuck is going on in plebe head, but apparently THIS is very much what they mean by "participation" in public affairs.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( it is imho unlikely that anyone will demonstrate an rsatron with fewer moving parts than ffa-ch5 )
(trilema) asciilifeform: diana_coman: in some applications, speed doesn't really matter almost at all. and in those, it is even now possible to, e.g., take ch5 ffa for rsatron.
(trilema) diana_coman admits that is one of the things she really, really likes about ffa
(trilema) asciilifeform: diana_coman: the observation re 'take as much speed as you actually need, but not more, if costs ugliness' is correct and is in fact the basis for ffa
(trilema) asciilifeform: in re shifts/rotates ( as seen in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis/tree/ffa/libffa/w_shifts.ads ) one nitpick : Shift_Left, etc. are not per se gnat-specific; they are in the standard. but for some perverse reason their ~invocation~ is implementation-specific, and requires this gnaticism.
(trilema) mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, tis a sad state of affairs. this item in my hands is, in a physical sense, quite fine. but then there's this intervening bullshit. literally like kid with autism/depression/anxiety/whatever the fuck. it would work fine if it just weren't born to ustards in ustardia.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 17:36 asciilifeform: the only way to detect overflow on risc-v is the algo i used in ffa.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-30 16:45 asciilifeform: !~later tell ave1 http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/#comment-15
(trilema) asciilifeform: !~later tell ave1 http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/#comment-15
(trilema) trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-29#1777911 << not at the moment. when my stack's popped to ffa will try to do my homework on one of the g5s
(trilema) asciilifeform: and when i say 'complete' i mean zero-libraries, a la ffa. kernel calls for i/o, and that's it.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( not to mention WBool, present in ch1, is constrained to arithmetize on 1bit. but indeed Word is smallest physical unit used, there is no byte-addressing in ffa )
(trilema) asciilifeform: ave1: 'Word is the smallest unit used for the arithmetic in FFA' is not strictly true, there is a HalfWord ( see ch9 )
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-29 15:46 ave1: I see you are already at ch9, I only just finished with ch1: http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/.
(trilema) ave1: I see you are already at ch9, I only just finished with ch1: http://ave1.org/2018/on-ffa-chapter-1/.
(trilema) pehbot: asciilifeform: 4B22E1172FCE727E6B314B8C59C8E006C757BC27D8D4E74759F0C7BFFA55178C4C2C83F6BC069144F61ECEBF9D8C1B427C04675B8107FCCB541FE11979610AB5
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: why didja truncate to the ffa bitness ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: and oh forfuckssake, apparently asciilifeform cannot change any of the '2017' to '2018' in ffa , because :
(trilema) asciilifeform: fwiw ffa is endian-insensitive .
(trilema) asciilifeform: ffa for instance is result of 'why not see what constant-time costs'
(trilema) ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-27#1777455 << great exercise, actually. type in each chapter's version of ffa
(trilema) mod6: lol, i've not "formally" started it. I have however, looked through most of 1, 2, 3, and 4. Did the homework for ffa_calc. But again, not enough to say "I've done it. Lemme sign."
(trilema) asciilifeform: but asciilifeform for one will read his vtron. and ffa homework answers.
(trilema) asciilifeform: douchebag: alternatively, ( or best of all, in conjunction ) read the ffa series and do the exercises.
(trilema) asciilifeform: just like if a d00d managed to sneak in and steal it, it ain't 'exploit for ffa' . etc
(trilema) asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's develop your picture. because it still isn't a complete one . because e.g. knowing the magicpacket for that particular box's nic, is not 'exploit for ffa', it is for $nic.
(trilema) mod6: Honestly, I loved the homework for ffa_calc. That was awesome.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the other fortunate bit, at least re ffa, is that it is not complicated from the ada pov
(trilema) mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: i dun particularly disagree with any of this, but the pov that 'vetting ffa' is a 1time thing, that can be done and then 'is done', imho is mistake : each user must read it ~himself~. << I basically just mean for me & ben.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mod6: i dun particularly disagree with any of this, but the pov that 'vetting ffa' is a 1time thing, that can be done and then 'is done', imho is mistake : each user must read it ~himself~.
(trilema) mod6: I'd like to see the Republic continue to expand the number of trb nodes we have available this year. There are activities currently afoot that immensly support that. Getting FFA vetted and used as a base lib really will help get the ball rolling for any proposed trbi.
(trilema) mod6: Some of this is my fault, I've been trying to keep up here. Getting kinda swampped with a bunch of things at once. But! These are all good things. FFA, eucrypt, ada, vtron stuff, et. al.
(trilema) asciilifeform: hey NoSatoshisHear -- you say you read the ffa series ? in what order of complexity does modular exponentiation run ?
(trilema) NoSatoshisHear: ffa, some cool stuff, making a braindead c one just cause I can learn better. Sure wish I could pour some fast multiply hardware, but don't know enough prolly.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: because self-effacing "nobility" of retarded white cuck.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re the 'guillotine neck vs mandible', if it ain't obvious, i'll spell it out ftr : bigendian nums look 'ffaistic' when hexdumped, i.e. correct . littleendian -- you gotta mentally flip'em.
(trilema) asciilifeform: what you can do, is either a) operate bitwise, ffa-style. b) mandate an endianism for the data format. and since you know the endianism of the machine you're building on, in particular build, you know whether the machine's is opposite or same as the data's.
(trilema) asciilifeform: sorta like how ffacalc works ( observe that it does exactly same thing on all possible endianisms , even 'middle endian' ( yes exists ))
(trilema) mircea_popescu: but in practice, it turns out i get ffa and other things, because my friends love me even more than i love myself.
(trilema) asciilifeform in the midst of fairly hefty conversion of '5000 log frags' to proper blogotronic text -- in re ffa . but ffa is in this respect substantially simpler item; it is not a mega-mystery how to do arithmetic.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: we got fna, ffa and faff!
(trilema) asciilifeform: i should've thought of that!111forffa
(trilema) spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1774969 <-- nah, finished just this december and enrolled into ffa class just after. :D thus my earlier http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736817 derping
(trilema) mircea_popescu: and ffs is more fundamental math than << ffa, obviously.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( ffa , yes, is made to work ~ on people ~ primarily )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: you are a terrible classifier, you know that ? seriously, ffa, 3rd grade ? what next, telekinesis, preschool ?
(trilema) asciilifeform: in that sense yea. ffa however is not frege, it is moar al-kwarizmus
(trilema) asciilifeform: not in ffa either, lol
(trilema) asciilifeform: i found it interesting to consider, why winblowz '0days' exciting to 19yo n00b, but e.g. ffa -- not
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 17:53 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774737 << btw, ty ben_vulpes for writing this article. After I get archive .zip delivery up and running I will be taking time to get my castle in order. This will include: 1) learning 'v' 2) get a working trb 3) testing my damn fgs already 4) ffa chapter 1 (at least)
(trilema) lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774737 << btw, ty ben_vulpes for writing this article. After I get archive .zip delivery up and running I will be taking time to get my castle in order. This will include: 1) learning 'v' 2) get a working trb 3) testing my damn fgs already 4) ffa chapter 1 (at least)
(trilema) asciilifeform: observe, e.g., in ffa.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ffa makes it for the first time both doable and appealing imho.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 16:29 asciilifeform: !!rate diana_coman 3 industrial FG user; adatronicist; ffa reader
(trilema) asciilifeform: phf: consider the practical diff b/w ffa-in-log-cum-pastes and the current series.
(trilema) mircea_popescu: but yes, "ffa mostly exists to show you that no, you actually DO NOT have a leg there".
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( again in re individual built item, e.g. ffa, rather than whole gnat )
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for whole gnat, is prolly an unliftable load, at least until it is sawed into small pieces and rewritten in whatever we end up with as 'machine scheme' . i was speaking of individual built bin, e.g. an ffatron.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ftr potentially interesting, to n00bz, ffa thread, in http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema-mod6?d=2018-1-22#289427 today.
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: loox like he appeared today, introduced as ffa reader.
(trilema) caaddr: and my vpatch was trivial work, I just wanted to report it here to avoid other ffa pioneers having to duplicate trivialities
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 14:08 caaddr: I've been working on Chapter 1 of the ffalib guide
(trilema) mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773933 << you know alf, it occurs to me ffa actually attracted a lot more intelligent commentary than phuctor's results. fucking_unexpected.gif.
(trilema) asciilifeform: prolly right after ffa series is done.
(trilema) ave1: Yes on restrict.adc plus it's the inline pragma that did not work for earlier FFA (adacore 2014).
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 16:04 ave1: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773970, it seems that gcc simply lags behind and a releases version will never be updated / fixed to newer adacore releases. AdaCore 2014 also cannot build FFA from the box
(trilema) deedbot: asciilifeform rated diana_coman 3 << industrial FG user; adatronicist; ffa reader
(trilema) asciilifeform: !!rate diana_coman 3 industrial FG user; adatronicist; ffa reader
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 14:18 deedbot: diana_coman rated caaddr 1 << ffa reader
(trilema) ave1: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773970, it seems that gcc simply lags behind and a releases version will never be updated / fixed to newer adacore releases. AdaCore 2014 also cannot build FFA from the box
(trilema) caaddr: anyway, see how sad the state of affairs is? we can't even reproduce the technology of the early 1980s, whereas we ought to have had nearly three decades now of advancement in this area
(trilema) asciilifeform: ffa should not even be necessary, on sane iron
(trilema) deedbot: diana_coman rated caaddr 1 << ffa reader
(trilema) diana_coman: !!rate caaddr 1 ffa reader
(trilema) diana_coman: upload the patches there + discussion as to why and what; link to asciilifeform's ch1 ffa and you're done
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose asciilifeform will want to have a look at them perhaps ; I'm not sure though I see a point in changing ffa to fit whatever gnat4 wants though
(trilema) diana_coman: wait, you created a vpatch for ..ffa?
(trilema) caaddr: I've been working on Chapter 1 of the ffalib guide
(trilema) deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06a-ffa-ch4-puzzle.html << The Tar Pit - A solution to the largest-of-seven FFACalc puzzle
(trilema) mod6 is having some fun stepping through some ffa procedures
(trilema) phf: ooh ffacalc should do that
(trilema) phf: i don't grok the first homework: do you mean produce random computations, and programmatically verify ffa against them?
(trilema) pehbot: asciilifeform: A8026C7DED2F18208F70797AE7ECEFFAF8C6F6BBAAF297B749CE6F6943BB354A
(trilema) asciilifeform: i.e. Product is only written to as result of the FZ_Mod call , http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch7_turbo_egyptians#L148 , which in turn , inside FZ_Mod, is a clean 1-shot, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch7_turbo_egyptians#L102 . QED.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-20 11:37 spyked: ftr, asciilifeform's ch4 seal (grabbed from http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig ) also seems to be binary (found it while double-checking my copies)
(trilema) spyked: ftr, asciilifeform's ch4 seal (grabbed from http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig ) also seems to be binary (found it while double-checking my copies)
(trilema) spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-19#1773176 <-- yikes! sorry phf, I fixed it (and double-checked, as I should have in the first place) --> http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/v/seals/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.spyked.sig
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-19 17:56 mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked "Note that this article is not meant to replace the actual thing. If you want to understand FFA properly, go read FFA. And just so that we understand each other, that DeGrasse Tyson guy is an imbecile" << no links ? what did links ever do to you!
(trilema) mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked "Note that this article is not meant to replace the actual thing. If you want to understand FFA properly, go read FFA. And just so that we understand each other, that DeGrasse Tyson guy is an imbecile" << no links ? what did links ever do to you!
(trilema) asciilifeform: he's been following ffa, doing the homeworkz
(trilema) asciilifeform: in other noose, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051&cpage=1#comment-18804 << >> http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06a-ffa-ch4-puzzle.html
(trilema) asciilifeform: consider a translation of ffa to c
(trilema) mircea_popescu: say it in the fucking comments of ffa, not here, at that.
(trilema) asciilifeform: and i will say, ftr, that invocation of ANY ffa components on ANY overlapping segments, is an abuse. and there is not in fact any way to guarantee correctness , if such a thing is permissible.
(trilema) asciilifeform: nuffin in ffa is an import, in classical v, or in asciilifeform's ideal v
(trilema) mircea_popescu: note how ffa ends up satisfying the greenspun rule, through the predictable entry point.
(trilema) asciilifeform: it's next on asciilifeform's conveyor after ffa. ( this should not discourage anybody else from writing adatronic lisps of whatever type, however )
(trilema) asciilifeform: currently ffa has 0 pointerism.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i have a similar item , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1657241 , it proved to be of very, very limited help for ffa , the constraint of the pc arch limits the use of fancy adders etc
(trilema) asciilifeform: !#s from:fromloper ffa
(trilema) a111: 0 results for "from:fromloper ffa", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Afromloper%20ffa
(trilema) asciilifeform: he's a very clever maths d00d. logs in every other week or so, nitpicks re fine points of ffa.
(trilema) asciilifeform: for single-author, e.g. ffa, nothing really changes.
(trilema) asciilifeform: ftr several different items in ffa seemed to me to be 'five-angled heptagons' (starting with how to compute the asm-less addition carries) until i solved'em
(trilema) asciilifeform: the other open q is where to draw the line re 'somebody, some day, with mutilated ffa' .
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-17 16:43 asciilifeform: concretely, e.g., Dividend_Index in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch7_turbo_egyptians#L31
(trilema) asciilifeform: ( at the very least, if range checks are enabled for ffacalc )
(trilema) apeloyee: if FFACalc code is correct, then it's also safe to omit that zero-indexed element from Stack
(trilema) apeloyee: an extra element won't save the father of russian democracy (c), if FFACalc stack manipulation code is wrong; e.g. if a 'Want(X)' statement is omiitted
(trilema) asciilifeform: concretely, e.g., Dividend_Index in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch7_turbo_egyptians#L31
(trilema) asciilifeform: ffa itself is a sort of tightrope walk, an attempt to 'и рыбку съесть и нахуй сесть' . it isn't actually possible to make all of the routines able to take every conceivable kind of compile-time abuse ( which i'd argue overlap of arguments, is ) without conditional jumps.
(trilema) asciilifeform: i never proclaimed, fwiw, that all ffa routines must be able to cleanly walk over own inputs.
(trilema) apeloyee: (on FFACalc stack)
(trilema) asciilifeform: (spoiler : ^ == ffa ch4 )
(trilema) mircea_popescu: "It is a well-known fact that Illuminati consist of Multi Millionaires, Billionaires who have major influence regarding most global affairs, including the planning of a New World Order." << poor nigerians got left outta da loop. it's all billionaires nowadays yo.
(trilema) asciilifeform: the whole point of ffa is that it is to contain NO such possibility of NO such thing.
(trilema) asciilifeform: does he have a micro that is just 4kbit short of a useful ram for doing ffatronics ? and needs to shave that 1 cell ?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-16 06:15 apeloyee: FFA homework is fun! I'd like to present a homework problem of my own, the following Perfectly Innocent (tm) patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tcvvO/?raw=true . The task is to find a bug WITHOUT running the code (that's cheating, per Dijkstra: " we see to it that the programming language in question has not been implemented on campus so that students are protected from the temptation to...
(trilema) apeloyee: FFA homework is fun! I'd like to present a homework problem of my own, the following Perfectly Innocent (tm) patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tcvvO/?raw=true . The task is to find a bug WITHOUT running the code (that's cheating, per Dijkstra: " we see to it that the programming language in question has not been implemented on campus so that students are protected from the temptation to...
(trilema) asciilifeform: though i'll point out that ffa as seen today, does not use the cpu carry flag ( recall, no-inline-asmolade rule )
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-15 19:45 BingoBoingo: phf: If I remember right Elbrus was a SPARC64 y entonces likely missing an ASM instruction useful for FFA with speed
(trilema) BingoBoingo: phf: If I remember right Elbrus was a SPARC64 y entonces likely missing an ASM instruction useful for FFA with speed
(trilema) mircea_popescu: dja happen upon either ffa or eucrypt write-ups, as it happens ?
(trilema) asciilifeform turns head and looks at the literal wall of ffa
(trilema) asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me, asciilifeform's brother not long ago said to asciilifeform re ffaseries, 'think, how many chinese phd theses you've written'
(trilema) mod6: from_ffa: sorry I missed ya on here. but for now, yeah, that behavior is intended.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-01-10 20:17 from_ffa: at any rate, if I run "v.pl p ~/workspace ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch" I expect to find ffa alongside all other projects. not an empty workspace dir with ffa in it
(trilema) from_ffa: at any rate, if I run "v.pl p ~/workspace ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch" I expect to find ffa alongside all other projects. not an empty workspace dir with ffa in it
(trilema) asciilifeform: from_ffa: so please consider logging in
(trilema) asciilifeform: from_ffa: and please consider getting a name, and registering with deedbot,
(trilema) asciilifeform: from_ffa: post it, he'll answer when he wakes up
(trilema) from_ffa: a regular lurker of the chan. just started to muck around with your ffa series
(trilema) asciilifeform: from_ffa: who might you be ?