Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2018-04-30 | 2018-05-02 →
ave1: !Q later tell asciilifeform The gcc makefiles use gnatls to find the runtime system directory, they do 'gnatls -v | grep adalib'. When ADA_OBJECTS_PATH is set, that line will return two directories and the build fails. Could you past the output of gnatls -v? (I can fix it with an extra head or tail call, but that also seems fragile)
lobbesbot: ave1: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !Qseen phf
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: phf was last seen in #trilema 13 hours, 26 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <phf> “Happy Birthday, Karl Marx. You Were Right (”
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the "reasonable" notion would be to not start this conversation well past midnight ; but my expectation is that were i to wait till tomorrow, or till six weeks from now, it'll still have to be carried exactly in the same manner for exactly the same reason, so what the hell difference does it make.
mircea_popescu: yo phf, what's the status on any of the n items you were going to be delivering except failed to ever mention again ?
mircea_popescu: is the manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here.
hanbot: mircea_popescu i noted several times in the last weeks/months phf was reporting pretty clearly what was being worked on, etas, etc, fwiw --eg , . it's gotta be difficult to keep absolutely everything not only organized but also organizedly communicated, eh.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-25 19:48 phf: hanbot: note that i'm going to fix it by wednesday, but if you can give me an unsigned rough draft of a keccak mp-wp.vpatch before then, i'll be able to use it as a test
a111: Logged on 2018-02-25 19:40 phf: in any case i'll produce a fix by wednesday, but not before. this requires careful work
mircea_popescu: dude check out the timestamps, 25th of feb, 25th of march, 19:40ish ? wtf coincidence is that.
mircea_popescu: hanbot, << did this ever progress past hack afayk ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 14:31 mircea_popescu: a right. hanbot do me a favour : download ~only~ those patches which are in the leftmost trunk seen on phf's viewer (so exclude vtools_vdiff_sha, and its dependents) and try to flow again ?
hanbot: nop, last mention was a little over a week ago tho.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-20 04:05 phf: trinque: it wouldn't, i believe there's an antecedent->dependency transformation issues (i.e. the transform in mod6 v is adhoc, so it can't handle the tricky antecedent graph). the approach hanbot used was to just use the patches from the left branch of the graph, until, per mircea_popescu's request, i write a general purpose v graph code.
mircea_popescu: well, so if i'm talking to someone that's not particularly keen on doing me any favours, what do i say to them ? something like "don't use v, it is broken" ? so they can ask me for how long it's been broken and i can say what, a month ? and they can then ask when it is going to be fixed and i can say "dunno" ?
mircea_popescu: i gotta be able to do better than that wtf.
hanbot: well, left branch approach does exist; that's why i was even able to put up the mp-wp genesis, after all. as for fix, sure an eta'd be better than no eta. i'm just sayin', doesn't look much like a runner to me.
mircea_popescu: it's still fucking broken. what's next, "we here at V house all halal, do graph by hand" ? and that's just one thing ; i have the whole / chain
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 04:33 mircea_popescu: how about a convention whereby all new genesises must contain a manifest.genesis file, which file will be constantly patched on each patchj, no exceptions, by adding a line which reads : "This is patch #x and the codebase hash is blabla".
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 23:52 phf: well, i'm now convinced that manifest is an elegant, minimally invasive solution. i'll try it in a regrind.
mircea_popescu: fellow strikes me as intelligent in conversation, then i keep having somehow the exact sort of problems with him that i usually have with idiots : i have no fucking idea what's going on, and i have to twist arms to sorta find out, maybe.
mod6: Back in the old days, there was one tree. I'm still not sure what problem we are trying to solve with all of this.
mod6: If there were vpatches in your flow that went down two different paths, you simply removed those vpatches from your 'patches' directory. Press path A. You want bath B? Then you just add in what ever path B consists.
trinque: the problem is that I have two unrelated patches (in reality, not theoretically)
trinque: how do I introduce a 3rd that doesn't abandon any it does not itself modify.
trinque: this has been restated in the logs several times by now.
trinque: your solution in the makefiles patch was to comment in unrelated files, which was inelegant.
mod6: why are they unrelated ? are they not a part of the same project?
trinque: why did you have to comment in files unrelated to the makefiles patch?
trinque: the answer to your question is right there
mod6: and just because it has been stated several times in the logs, does't mean it makes sense to me.
mod6: I feel like that is two different cases maybe. That was the case of tying up the leaves.
mod6: This is something where you have two totally different trees, merged into one.
mod6: I dunno, nevermind. Maybe will just have to leave this complicated work up to those whom understand it better.
trinque: distinguish "tying up the leaves" from what I said?
trinque: you would have dropped one of the antecedent patches you wanted if you hadn't commented in files they edited, right?
mod6: huh? no.
mod6: not at that time. at that time, we just pressed all leaves anyway.
mod6: this just made it "tidy".
mod6: One leaf.
asciilifeform: trinque: didja ever get a chance to try the algo i demo'd in ? what did you think ?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: Sent 8 hours and 46 minutes ago: <ave1> The gcc makefiles use gnatls to find the runtime system directory, they do 'gnatls -v | grep adalib'. When ADA_OBJECTS_PATH is set, that line will return two directories and the build fails. Could you past the output of gnatls -v? (I can fix it with an extra head or tail call, but that also seems fragile)
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: I actually did.
mod6: Did nasty things when I tried this with TRB.
mod6: Sad to report.
asciilifeform: mod6: considering that the example i gave ~is~ the totality of the trb tree, i'm a bit puzzled, what was it you tried ?
mod6: I'd have to go back an look, but I seem to recall trying to use it to create the trb patches, then inflate from those. and when I did, lotsa hunks/fuzz etc.
asciilifeform: ( if you grab the attachments of the ml post, and follow the instructions, you get bitwise-identical trb on every step of the ladder , vs the respective trb at that step in the orig tree . )
mod6: I'll pull out my notes later today if you actuall want.
asciilifeform: mod6: generally it's good practice to send in the eggogs some time near the time you actually did the test...
asciilifeform: but better late than never
mod6: It's very possible i just misused this tool.
mod6: well, fwiw, i'm trying to not get sucked back into all of this. as far as I'm concerned V works.
asciilifeform: mod6: the linked item was written in as illustration of 1 possible solution to problem posed by mircea_popescu and trinque , in re spuriously-independent patches creating misleading graph
asciilifeform: and the 'tldr' of it is: if you download the patches/sigs in the example, and press to any particular one, you get a file 'trb', which, when put through included proggy 'txt2dir' results in a bitwise-correct (i.e. bit-identical to classical tree that we have for trb) press.
asciilifeform: in the interest of saving log bandwidth >> << thread, where i described.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-02 22:04 asciilifeform: trinque, phf , other vtronicists :
trinque considers the ability to be able to move files without miles of diff insanity pretty damned cool
trinque: and in service to fits-in-head
asciilifeform: trinque: moving, renaming, etc. and yes you get it 'for free'.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, crystals is neato. Just tried to press (iirc) out the big thing and hit some sort of issues.
asciilifeform: trinque: it's actually your algo, i just proggified it.
trinque: I can also see an argument from mod6 that "pressing all leaves" ~did work, but that's not what's currently done.
mod6: I'll have to get you the info. Probably later today.
mod6: And yea, V 99993K removed that, and now can only press to one leaf.
mod6: I personally find this obnoxious.
mod6: If there are 3 leaves, A, B, and C. And for some reason, I shouldn't have B and C, then I should just be a man, and remove them from my 'patches' dir.
mod6: Otherwise we have a lot of extra complexity and mental gymnatics.
trinque: yeah, could remove press head entirely and press all it can, and operator controls via patch, seals, and wot, eh?
trinque: I can see that argument too
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw it was how my orig (unreleased) vtron worked.
asciilifeform: ( the 'press all it can' specifically )
mod6: You may just have to disrgard what I was saying above, asciilifeform.
mod6: (re: crystals) re-reading the email, it is jogging my memory that I didn't use the included trb files specifically. I recall screwing around and wiring in my vtron, as opposed to your vtron, then who knows. I probably did something dumb.
mod6: Which is why I don't think I ever posted about it. My attention probably turned to other things, and I haven't circled back yet.
mod6: I'll maybe start fresh on it and see how it goes.
asciilifeform: mod6: there's not an urgent and dire need to test the linked item ( though fwiw it stood up to exhaustive test on asciilifeform's side ). i linked it in response to thread strictly.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 14:38 trinque: the problem is that I have two unrelated patches (in reality, not theoretically)
asciilifeform: probably i ought to have pointed this out moar clearly.
mod6: well, sure not "urgent", but I shouldn't say "didn't work" either.
mod6: anyway, <3
mod6: bbs
asciilifeform: << forgot to add: recall, it also abolishes inbandism.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 14:59 trinque: and in service to fits-in-head
phf: << well my fiat responsibilities are disrupting any kind of reasonable scheduling. i'm not 9 to 5, my fiat work goes through periods of heavy activity that are aligned with particular industry. and right now it's a particular mess, owner had a baby 3 weeks early, 2 weeks ago, another c level is having a baby in a week, and we're in the middle of a release. previous republican work was kind of cutting into some
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 06:55 mircea_popescu: is the manifest issue fixed ? is the graphing done ? am i what, going to lose v now because i'm too polite to yell, and left to your own devices you're just going to break it, permanently, obscurely, and forget about it ? or what's the fucking logic here.
phf: of that fiat work, but now i can't even afford to borrow against future time. basically since i came back from a vacation when the bulk of V work was done, i had very little free time. the republican policy is variations on "fuck your fiat excuses", but that is what's creating these vacuums of "it'll be done... sometime"
mircea_popescu: phf, ok, so then say. "hey folks -- job fucked me over, i'll be lost in the swamp for [2 days ; 3 weeks ; 4 months]" whatever it is. why should i have to try and guess ?
mircea_popescu: you didn't even as much as say "hey, i have a job irl". am i to assume you do ? why should i have to assume, why should i have to guess, there's simply no benefit to doing it this way.
mircea_popescu: !!up mother[m]
deedbot: mother[m] voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, we have examples of diana_coman etc. who manages to do republican work while "raising a baby and having a day time job". presumably this shit can somehow be scheduled and managed better, i.e. the fact that those things even need to be communicated is an organizational failure. some progress could be made.
phf: those thing being "i have a job irl"
mircea_popescu: i know her! her day job is working for me!
phf: lol
phf: well then
mircea_popescu: just because i seem to be guessing successfully in case X does not mean you should put me in the situation of guessing about you. it just does not fucking pay.
mircea_popescu: if i have to guess i'll possibly guess wrongly ; if i have to assume i will conceivably assume incorrectly. why ? what does it pay ? just say. i know they told you discreet pays, but they lied. discreet does not pay. blunt wins.
mircea_popescu: mod6, they're "unrelated" in the sense that not all files are touched at the same time, by each patch -- principally because we favour small patches.
mircea_popescu: << "did nasty things" is not a report ;/
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 14:50 mod6: Did nasty things when I tried this with TRB.
mircea_popescu: << and operator will bite an anvil made out of solid combinatorialexplosioum.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 15:05 trinque: yeah, could remove press head entirely and press all it can, and operator controls via patch, seals, and wot, eh?
phf: aight, i'm going to be out of commission until mid may. i have comments for eulora that i need to type up (i got to sit down with a printout out over this weekend), i'm not sure about the amount of work required for the grapher until i have time to sit down and read (i sort of have an idea of how to implement it as part of vtools, but i'm not sure if the slicing is adequate), until i do i don't have a clear idea of how long it's going to take. i m
phf: ight have time to sit down with before mid may. i can also just remove the right hand side of vtools for now, since this new complexity is coming from an experimental v graph anyway. i've no idea though if people are using a sha512 vtools in preference of awk vdiff / gnu patch.
mircea_popescu: cool. so now we know!
mircea_popescu: "fuck your fiat excuses" cuts both ways. we simply don't care, which can mean also we don't mind! just you know, make it easy for everyone to not mind, it'll be that then.
mircea_popescu: trinque, what's your stance here, do you particularly want to implement a grapher / manifest / generally fix a v ? not really ?
mircea_popescu: i specifically don't want it on asciilifeform 's plate because i'm hoping that he and ave1 can actually get gpr work for irl purposes. if i manage to get eulora server off the fsf toolchain it'll be such a win the likes of which i hadn't dared hope for last year. between that and getting pizarro off the ground he has plenty, and not readily replaceable.
mircea_popescu: but we have esthlos waited on a fix, and then there's whatever you were waiting to publish. so i'm guessing it'd have to be one of you.
mircea_popescu: hey mod6 how's your ada v coming along ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of which, his fix seems to work ( build still going , already got past where last barfed )
phf: well, manifest is in the vtools project, but there's no programmatic support for it, because it's not even clear to me what sort of programmatic support might be needed. as it stands anyone is free to add or not add a manifest to their particular graph. the result of this experiment is that manifest works, you can see its output on the site. problem that we have is the need for a smarter grapher, the solution to which might just be "if it hurts when yo
phf: u do it, don't do it"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, *thumbs*
asciilifeform: theoretically should output a musltronic gnat.
mircea_popescu: phf, i get it dood, takes some thinking you've not had time to do. it's not the end of the world or anything, what the hell.
mircea_popescu: the ~only~ item here is that if you had said "hey, i work with women, we're at that age when they're becoming patently useless / damaging to a professional career, i'll be fucked till mid may" when they started popping babies while preternding to be "owners" of shit, we'd have had this convo late march not early may.
phf nods
mircea_popescu: not like you're the first to run into something in the entire history of the world.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> << "did nasty things" is not a report ;/ << Yeah, my apologies, I'll re-do.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-01 14:50 mod6: Did nasty things when I tried this with TRB.
phf: ok, back to the grind for me then
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey mod6 how's your ada v coming along ? << Still stuck in the drawer. I haevn't even touched it since Q3 of 17. I'm distinctly intersted in rawtx tools getting into trb, currently.
mod6: The problem with the Ada version is the string parsing.
mircea_popescu: alrighty, do that then.
mircea_popescu: i should prolly have a betting pool over how many retarded byte errors of the "hey, check them out, they forgot a comma" type he's gonna find before he releases anything.
mod6: And I'll certainly need to write something (or work with someone) to produce a ~fast~ parser. It's a giant ass-pain with the fixed-length strings.
mod6: Where I did get to last year, had some of this working, not all, but some; and it was SLOOOOW. Too much string processing.
mod6: mircea_popescu: oh, betting against us or prb?
mircea_popescu: mod6, there's no rush there, esthlos had 90% of a working lisp v, i expect it can be tweaked into a deliverable. can have ada v later on.
mircea_popescu: mod6, just how many you'll find, it's already 1, and the rule goes 0-1-inf.
asciilifeform: mod6: parser for what ? tx ? you allocate a max-tx-sized (1 decimal MB...) buffer and shift the input into it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no that was re v.
mod6: fwiw, I did look for other appearences of the same bug in all of the trb source files, however, I didn't see one. Doesn't mean that they don't exist. I invite all to examine the source.
mircea_popescu: it's not a trivial problem, from ada perspective.
mircea_popescu: "so how long is this gonna be ?" "We don't know." "bitch, go back to picking apples."
mod6: Exactly, 0, 1, inf. I was worried about this. MOre pairs of eyes are good here.
asciilifeform: trivial if you download 'horsecocks.tar' and use my mmap routine.
mircea_popescu: "programming is for when you know."
asciilifeform: then no need to allocate anyffing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there is that.
mod6: see, I did think that alf had produced something of this kind that was connected to ffa.
asciilifeform: mod6: prior
mod6: I need to go and look at that, I might be able to use that outright, or borrow from it.
asciilifeform: it was used in my 'nqb' ( 'not quite bitcoin' ) skeleton
mircea_popescu: mod6, was a while ago. but anyway, nevermind, you'll do all this later. get tx tooling into trb, by all means.
mod6: oh, hmm. I'll have to remind myself.
asciilifeform: and yes it can be used straight, the demo builds on all known gnats iirc
mod6: Yeah, I've got 'getrawtransaction', 'decoderawtransaction' working and minimally tested. createrawtransaction is built and untestd entirely (was working on recent bug report instead). that leaves signrawtransaction, and sendrawtransaction... and maybe listunspent too.
mod6: But listunspent I already had working long ago, but not with the way you wanted it.
mod6: which, requires a lot more changes, so we'll see.
trinque: neat mod6. super useful for the wallet.
mod6: sign and send are gonna be a tough ones, so we'll see how it goes. I've got a new test machine on the way, so I gotta stand that up, etc for all of this too.
trinque: mircea_popescu: I am entirely willing to help esthlos finish his V
a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 19:40 asciilifeform: mod6, phf , et al : << i dun recall posting this before, so here it will live, for nao : unofficial release of mmaptron
a111: Logged on 2017-06-09 17:17 mod6: speaking of ada stuff. i did get horsecocks to compile just fine with the changes that were discussed previously with diana_coman
a111: Logged on 2017-07-13 15:27 asciilifeform: phf: witness what i did re mmap for instance.
asciilifeform: ( btw, all of the nosuchlabs/pub/* linx , work again ! )
mod6: Thanks asciilifeform
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks too for prodding me about Ada-vtron. I'll poke at it as I can, for sure.
mod6: One other thing about ada-vtron, at the time, I was using system commands to execute `gnupg'. Where as now, perhaps we can use ffa/peh.
mod6: Or work up to that point, anyway.
mod6: Anyway, food for thought.
mod6 bbl, meat.
mircea_popescu: mod6, that's actually... exactly the opposite of what i said!
mircea_popescu: do the tx stuff ; ada vtron can wait.
mircea_popescu: trinque, alright, then that's the plan here, you and esthlos come up with a v i can point people at when they have to publish ; you can test it by publishing whatever it was you were about to on it, and there we go.
mircea_popescu: keccak hashing, yes ?
trinque: yep, all sounds good.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, ^
asciilifeform: quasi-relatedly, asciilifeform found himself wondering, why we're still on fleanode... between pizarro, mircea_popescu's racked boxes ( idk where, but presumably good ones ? ) , asciilifeform's own fiber, trinque , etc. could have a very solid irc net, potentially
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, because they've not kicked us off yet.
asciilifeform: lol! 'why do we live in the train tunnel, we could afford flat' 'they haven't kicked us yet...'
mircea_popescu: what's the problem, anyway, we hang out here with 50k cockcaged retards, singlehandedly make up 99% of all their intellectual products while they pretend we don't exist.
asciilifeform: cruddy connections , afaik, is the only recurrent problem
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, do you propose to bereave me of the future "O yEaH ?!?!?! YOU ARE BANNED THEN!!!!" "you think i care ?" "of course you do! everyone cares!!!!" lulz ? hm ?
asciilifeform: lol point
mircea_popescu: as a smart slut once told peggy, "to have fun you need to organize it"
asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 with both vars unset, much farther than before, but still nope :
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: i can't fucking believe the recipe relies on git, lol
ave1: Aha, and I was just writing my response.
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 2 hours and 38 minutes ago: <asciilifeform>
lobbesbot: ave1: Sent 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> with both vars unset, much farther than before, but still nope :
asciilifeform: ave1: the 1 thing that really, really gotta be fixed, is the 'now you get to start the 3h build from 0 every time' thing.
ave1: Yes, I it is, I will remove that dependency promptly. Taking complex scripts from the wild takes some time to fix.
asciilifeform: srsly this was a solved problem in 1985 or whenever first makefile was written.
ave1: Will do, it already has some mechanism to check if something was build and skip that step. I will look at it some more.
ave1: Currently the mechanism is not fail save, so it sometimes skips a step even if it was unsuccessful.
asciilifeform: also needs a central place to put '-j32' where it will be fed to ALL gcc & gnat invocations so that my 32-cpu box can do the Right Thing
ave1: That one should not be too hard, most work is done in the buildinstall function in defs.h
ave1: sorry
ave1: before starting do: export MAKEFLAGS="-j32".
trinque looks upon his 16 core poverty in shame
asciilifeform: should use gentoo's standard MAKEOPTS
mircea_popescu: the standards in computing are a thing to behold.
lobbes apologizes for all the lobbesbot join/part spam. Will have to investigate once out of saltmines
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6, that's actually... exactly the opposite of what i said! << I've got ya. I'm just gonna stay on this rawtx stuffs, I'm making ok progress atm.
BingoBoingo: And we have yet another family with children in the hostel
BingoBoingo: And in the Sportsmen being MEN department: "Bauer told Passan that he repeatedly bugged the Indians’ medical staff to cauterize his finger wound shut with a soldering iron. They laughed at him, but Bauer was 100 percent serious. He truly wanted his already mangled finger to be burnt shut so bad he almost performed the procedure himself."
lobbes: Ugh, so my www on my frantech vps has been dog slow all day. Same vps that hosts lobbesbot, so possibly I have finally outgrown the thing (currently hosts bot, mp-wp, archived urls index, eulora price history, and various misc)
lobbes: Pizarro folx, would rockchip box be enough juice for the above? And is it still $75 for a quarter?
lobbes: Essentially would need it for various php-trons, mp-wp hosting, and irc bottage.
asciilifeform: lobbes: definitely oughta suffice for the described use
asciilifeform: ( 4 cores, 2G ram )
asciilifeform: and afaik price is still same ( confirm with ben_vulpes & mod6 )
lobbes: And s/"still $75 for quarter?"/"still $75 per month if pay whole quarter?"/
lobbes: Nice
asciilifeform: correct
asciilifeform: can buy multiple quarters ahead of time if you like, also.
asciilifeform has become rather fond of the rockbox , even bought some moar for the torture room after coming back from BingoBoingostan
asciilifeform: err, rockchip box
asciilifeform: i suppose this is not bad time to mention that i have experimental gentoo for a deloused (i.e. degoogleated) c101pa laptop
lobbes: Ty asciilifeform for info. Ima bbl as well (leaving saltmines), but I'm sold. ben_vulpes: plox to invoice me for one quarter of rockchip box when you are able
ben_vulpes: lobbes: ack
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: awesome
asciilifeform: this makes for... 4 of 6 sold
asciilifeform: get'em while they're on the shelf, folx!
mircea_popescu: incidentally, do these come with fg or as an optional ?
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me that ~for the first time~ in the history of computing, we have hardware capable of on the fly rsa-ing.
mod6: This is an interesting question.
mod6: I suppose that one could be connected directly to the board, right asciilifeform? But would it physically have to be placed, i.e. underneath, the riser bolts/pegs?
mod6 goes to find the picture
mod6: Ooh, I see some are double stacked.
mod6: anyway, bbl
asciilifeform: mod6, mircea_popescu : they have not 1 but 2 uart's, already at ttl signal level, pretty much born to FG
asciilifeform: ( naturally they also take conventional usb-ttl FG trivially )
asciilifeform: and i doubt it would take BingoBoingo very much sweat to craft a suitable shelf to keep the FG-en on.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. they do not come with FG by default, but this is available as an option; interested folx should ping ben_vulpes & mod6 and inquire re price )
asciilifeform: re shelf, there is room on the ~existing~ shelf for 2 FG , without obstruction of airflow.
asciilifeform: ( as illustrated in the photo linked by mod6 )
asciilifeform: keep in mind that this is a pilot plant; in 'adult' 1u and 2u designs there is designated slot for FG for ~each~ board.
asciilifeform: if pilot plant sells out and stays full -- then we construct the full plant ( and eventually migrate pilot customers to it also )
asciilifeform: incidentally, asciilifeform seems to recall that some yrs ago jurov was looking at an arm-chipset hosting thing. jurov , still looking ? perhaps this one will work for you
mircea_popescu: yeah. it's not a small thing this, safe online rsa.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly we oughta make the successor FG, in already the 'four holes of rpi3' form factor that rockchip has, so as to stack'em cleanly..
mircea_popescu: this is indeed where the junction is going, evolve a pcb for official arm item specifically.
mircea_popescu: but premature yet, give it six months in industrial application.
asciilifeform: ( tho mebbe not, because one couldn't then )
mircea_popescu: just a matter of adapted pcb ; still same item.
diana_coman: ben_vulpes, mod6 what's the price for a rockchip *with* fg as per asciilifeform's description above?
asciilifeform: ( in re industrial application -- asciilifeform has found , while back, that FG might be one of the few electronic items which ~like~ elevated , within reason ( dun wanna melt the solder balls or warp the pcb, so no boiling lead plox ) temperatures... )
asciilifeform: illustration, so to speak, of the connection b/w 'physical' entropy and the rng one
asciilifeform: mod6: they are not merely double- but N- stackable. however power supply gets gnarly in that geometry, and the pilot plant as pictured, oughta be considered full
asciilifeform brb,meat
mod6: Ah, ok. Thanks for the info asciilifeform.
mod6: diana_coman: We'll discuss and figure out what makes sense, will report back.
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1679...6159 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' (Unknown CN 11)
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 9063.13, vol: 11729.53161711 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 9070.6, vol: 23312.154198539996 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 9070.2, vol: 5338.80882751 | Volume-weighted last average: 9068.37726535
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 00:40 asciilifeform: !!deed
asciilifeform: !!v 407E794ACEEE389CCF771222F9A1D373397ACD165F7A11605C828C61B549B9F8
deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.10813041 <<
asciilifeform: !!invoice ben_vulpes 0.02 2 x 3ware RAID cards (1 in , 1 for smg spare and currently stored in orig packaging in the rack bilge )
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-01 17:59 ben_vulpes: yes sold
asciilifeform: !!v F6313920EBDB845D8354B33F2C12DDFE496BE90196B6330C2FCA95BE4CFE1DF5
deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.02 << 2 x 3ware RAID cards (1 in , 1 for smg spare and currently stored in orig packaging in the rack bilge )
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-01 17:59 ben_vulpes: yes sold
asciilifeform: !!invoice mircea_popescu 0.24737591 asciilifeform-powered snsa->pizarro crossborder transport ( see manifest ) , inclusive of the iron repurchased earlier by pizarro ( i dun recall if the transport cost was part of the purchase, if it wasn't , plox to rebill ben_vulpes et al )
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 00:40 asciilifeform: !!deed
asciilifeform: !!v D80DA12DCAC5A938A5D3B7F44D188EB6E9274B1DCB40FEAEE0C9D8585E1DA58C
asciilifeform: lol did i finally hang this thing
asciilifeform: ( trinque ^ ? )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, basically this is because snsa is paying you to deliver its gear there and also sold pizarro some gear on the trip, right ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right, i'm digging in the log re whether you included transport, but currently can't find, grrr
mircea_popescu: im sure snsa sold parts fob.
mircea_popescu: and so this ~2k is what, plane ticket and those bits of gear we didn't already own that we resold basically ?
trinque: lol, value too long for varchar(255) asciilifeform
trinque: holy damned memo field
asciilifeform: trinque: should i resubmit or wat
trinque: lemme make it yuger
trinque: asciilifeform: ok, resubmit with same girth
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strictly plane ( 400 alone was 'excess weight surcharge ) + taxis + hotel
asciilifeform: trinque: aite, 1s
mircea_popescu: alright.
asciilifeform: !!invoice mircea_popescu 0.24737591 asciilifeform-powered snsa->pizarro crossborder transport works
trinque: pff I said same girth
trinque: but nbd
asciilifeform: !!v 5A66BE94B97DB841FDFC0A5E1ADE2B818A720C8D64ED702D0EF4EA4DF20E7437
deedbot: Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.24737591 << asciilifeform-powered snsa->pizarro crossborder transport works
asciilifeform: oops , sorry trinque
asciilifeform: but this oughta work..
trinque: yeah that's fine; I just embiggened the type db-side
mircea_popescu: whoa guise i dunno what's going on but this tab keeps flashing o.O O.o
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes lemme know if you have any q re the items in manifest ( they are all in BingoBoingo's inventory nao )
asciilifeform: anyway this is all in re cost of asciilifeform's 1st expedition to pizarrostan.
asciilifeform: the 1 item i forgot is cost of 1 spare raid cable. but let's consider it a donation...
mircea_popescu: !!invoices
asciilifeform wonder how 'asciilifeform airlines' compares, costwise, with fedex, for same mass
asciilifeform: not even to count the customs strange.
mircea_popescu: will be reporting this shortly.
trinque: ^ !!received-invoices or !!sent-invoices
mircea_popescu: !!received-invoices
mircea_popescu: !!pay-invoice asciilifeform 1
mircea_popescu: trinque, can pay-invoice require a mangled number format, such as #1 or i1 or something ? i nearly paid ben_vulpes 4 btc a few days ago, and so on.
mircea_popescu: !!sent-invoices
mircea_popescu: !!ledger
trinque: yeah, I can see the wisdom behind it. gets worse the more it's used, heh!
mircea_popescu: a that's right, pizarro never paid cash, we got bonds.
mircea_popescu: basically asciilifeform the story is incomputable : you cost 1/4 btc to fly over some gear (which iirc cost us .6 ?) of which half we sold to pizarro for ~.5 in equity. figure it out if you can o.O
mircea_popescu: but broadly speaking seems about right, what can i say.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the gear per se, asciilifeform was repaid for long ago
mircea_popescu: just saying, from a snsa perspective. it looks like a wash really.
asciilifeform: then ben_vulpes purchased a box; and i'm still digging in the log for where and for what;
mircea_popescu: he bought two boxes -- the minigame box and the spare. and he paid 0.5 in pizarro bonds.
mircea_popescu: then he later paid a further .4 for a fg bundle, taking nsa to .9 worth of convertible bonds, ie a ~7,5% holderr as th9ings stand
asciilifeform: right-o
mircea_popescu: dis log. FUCKING WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD.
mircea_popescu: the only unclear part to me is the rockchips. nsa never paid you to buy them ; nor was paid for pizarro to acquire them. i imagine this was a side deal ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plz read the manifest
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are 2 sections, sect. 1 is for pizarro, sect 2 for snsa
asciilifeform: strictly delineated.
asciilifeform: i put'em both in 1 signed document because they pertain to 1 expedition. but there are 2 sep. totals in there.
mircea_popescu: don't say "plz read the manifest", say "plz read the manifest : or w/er it is. what is it ?
asciilifeform: i put it in the !!invoice
asciilifeform: does deedbot display these when you !!received...c ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 00:40 asciilifeform: !!deed
asciilifeform: ^ subj.
asciilifeform: lol i can scarcely believe mircea_popescu was about to pay invoice but missed the actual invoice text
mircea_popescu: a ok, so you billed pizarro for those. i see i see.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i have every intention to pay it, whence the !!pay ; the checking intervenes between the statement of intention and the execution thereof.
mircea_popescu: kinda why they're two things.
mircea_popescu: !!up BigTexasBingo
deedbot: BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: ( strange phakt : on the way out of montevideo, somehow instead of normal taxi, asciilifeform ended up in ~entire bus~ by himself. ...they ran out of ordinary taxis ? nfi )
BigTexasBingo: Oh boy, the family has a father/cuck lecturing to me in front of the niños
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: about what
BigTexasBingo: About how marijuana in his vape is cool, but the rest isn't
BigTexasBingo: And myself, I have to explain the all of it has been legal since 1973 when the dictatorship took power and legalized all the drugs
BigTexasBingo: !Q gabriel_laddel Seriously where the fuck are you. This land is Your land
asciilifeform computes that ' asciilifeform airlines ' costs 22.42 $ / kg . which is about 5x less than, e.g., u.s. post...
mircea_popescu: BigTexasBingo, what the fuck is the schmuck with kids doing in teenager slum anywyas
BigTexasBingo: Lives in la paloma, can't afford hotels
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, from that pov it is actually not even half bad, esp because includes expert escort + handling.
mircea_popescu: BigTexasBingo, then hopw the fuck does he even dare lift his fucking dumb head.
asciilifeform: verily. i had nailpolishy seals on the crates even.
mircea_popescu: tell him your boss from far away said so!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i guess you have all further gear conveyance contracts you wish.
BigTexasBingo: Mircea he was humbled. Offered his kids pizza.
asciilifeform: well for when this day comes, i saved all the blankets, towels, rags, foam blocks...
asciilifeform: ( was gonna jettison'em, then thought better )
BigTexasBingo: Alf freight was very good for the morale as well
asciilifeform: observe also : 0 $ at customs.
BigTexasBingo: Asciilifeform left me with an ice cream habit though. June bioallotment is going to have to go up.
asciilifeform: really oughta
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 , plox to put the matter ^ before board.
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo has been doing a most fine job of pizarro-resident, deserves some raise.
mircea_popescu: haha dood this sounds like it was a helluva trip.
asciilifeform: verily it was
BigTexasBingo: Eh, mostly I have been terrorizing boomers
BigTexasBingo: Alf, fotoblawg when?
asciilifeform: we walked , what, 200km, was it
BigTexasBingo: Easily. How arr your feet?
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: still sifting through the 5 or so GB of photolade to find good fodder
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: feet work, after skin swapped like on snake
asciilifeform: ( this took whole week+ )
BigTexasBingo: Going back to boots after the sneakers got soaked Saturday was a trip
asciilifeform: say what one will re asciilifeform's 'jackboots', at least they're watertight
BigTexasBingo: I strongly recommend if you do boots next time go for some redwings.
asciilifeform: the ones with iron soles ?
BigTexasBingo: Not the whole sole, but enough of it
asciilifeform will look into this.
BigTexasBingo: I actually think my pair maybe has a fiberglass rod in the sole. The appeal here is non slip rubber and dead cow.
mircea_popescu: check out alf, just like in the fairytales of his native lands!
asciilifeform: these, i got already in existing bootz
mircea_popescu: worn down -- iron boot. found luck.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i got them bootz in timis
asciilifeform: a+++ but even these, have limits, when pavement is ~= rubble
BigTexasBingo: Jajajaja
BigTexasBingo: December was a month where the boots were *just* broken in enough to serve as a cast for the stress fractures
BigTexasBingo: También the varying textures aren't bad. Wait until you try walking the pretty tiles in the rain.
asciilifeform regrets only 1 thing -- not having brought swimming kit
BigTexasBingo: Next time
asciilifeform: picture, 20km of beach, not only empty of orcs but clean enuff to eat from.
asciilifeform: and 40c air.
BigTexasBingo: Only 27cax
BigTexasBingo: 40c only happens in old country... Or Paraguay
asciilifeform: felt quite 'tropical' tho.
asciilifeform: like in aquarium shop.
asciilifeform: (humidity, really)
BigTexasBingo: That humidity and MI enemigo el sol
asciilifeform: interestingly enuff, 0 sunburn on asciilifeform , despite having no hat or other means against the sun
asciilifeform: ( exactly like in 2015 visit to buenosaires)
BigTexasBingo: I don't really have a burn either so much as gently weeping skin on my face that screams with prolonged pressure like sunglasses on mt nasal bridge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, what kit is needed i don't get it ?
mircea_popescu gave up on trying to wear the retarded recicled coca cola bottles they're selling as "Swimsuits".
asciilifeform: i had a cloth one back home, and did not relish to put on the 'recycled bottles' sold in uy
asciilifeform: in other lulz, phuctor set to roll over 10 mil keys in coupla dayz.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, im sure the ocean's seen male genitalia before.
asciilifeform: sand in arse isn't much fun tho.
mircea_popescu: well so pack a towel to sit on.
asciilifeform: it was pretty strange, 0 orcs in the water, at any time of day
mircea_popescu: anyway, never bothered me yet. you'd expect it'd be way the fuck worse with girly bits, but amusingly enough IT IS NOT. the worst part is sand abrasion due to it getting in the slip (as it will) and then the slip moving it about.
mircea_popescu: but in plain terms, it turns out the human body is actually very well designed to not have a problem with sand.
mircea_popescu: nfi why, inexplicabru.
mircea_popescu: especially seeing how the very well design panther tanks -- did.
mircea_popescu: apparently cunt perl > german engineering.
asciilifeform: sorta helps that we have 'sealed bearings' eh.
mircea_popescu: hey, i made no constraint of it.
asciilifeform: ( observe, yer hdd is also unafraid of sand )
mircea_popescu: salt water tho...
asciilifeform at one time had a reasonably watertight hdd ( 'battened down' by hand for the application )
asciilifeform: incidentally the little 'c101pa' comp , is nifty also on acct of having no exhaust pipe ( passively cooled strictly )
asciilifeform: the chassis is of aluminum.
asciilifeform: ( there is a triangular heat spreader on the cpu and ram, in can be seen the grease spot from it )
asciilifeform: also covers the four ferrites above cpu
asciilifeform: and the soldered-on ssd.
asciilifeform: overall a notbad.jpg box, mechanically, esp. for what it costs.
mod6: Alright, update on asciilifeform 's crystals: It works.
mod6: However, I'd like to say that there were a few things that threw me off.
asciilifeform: let's hear
mod6: << the script in the body of this email needed updating (and I had forgot about this part from earlier this month) -- my corrections are basically somewhat subject to my directory setup, save these two edits:
mod6: mkdir -p out;
mod6: and
mod6: N=`basename $P .vpatch`
mod6: which I've shown in my log paste above ^. The original one is pasted first, the one that I actually got to work, second.
asciilifeform: is this one of those boxes that lacks 'basename' proggy ?
asciilifeform: iirc this was a headache in early trb days
mod6: No
mod6: instead of $P, you use $patch
mod6: mod6@gentoo ~/alf_crystals $ which basename
mod6: /usr/bin/basename
asciilifeform: why does this barf on mod6's box tho..
mod6: I do have that binary for what it's worth.
asciilifeform: ( for puzzled readers -- script in ^ is a generator of a set of tests for the 'crystals' demo, rather than the thing per se )
mod6: The barf is actually in that log, there was a lot of those -- one for each vpatch. I should note though, my copy/paste may have thrown in some weird chars there, so just ignore that, that's not from your script, or my edits thereof.
mod6: Anyway, was pretty minor...
asciilifeform: sure, but why did the fix, fix it..?
mod6: Next thing was that I got into some very small trouble with: ./ trb makefiles
mod6: Simply because I didn't know that it was output to 'out/trb', and then I moved the dir to 'trb'. lol. So i tried to run the thing against a dir, not a crystal. Once I realized that, worked fine.
mod6: You'll note that I did follow the steps as posted in the email, and for instance:
mod6: mod6@gentoo ~/alf_crystals/alf $ ./ p . makefiles.monoblok.vpatch
mod6: HEAD: makefiles.monoblok.vpatch not found in flow
asciilifeform: mod6: the press (using ordinary v) creates a text file, 'trb'. which then is 'untarred', if you will, to 'makefiles' .
asciilifeform: mod6: why would it be 'not found in flow' unless you didn't unpack the patches/seals/my key ?
mod6: So, that was minor, had to download all your monobloks and seals from the email. That was all. Overall, I think in early april, I did this late at night and just didn't follow your steps as correctly as I should have.
mod6: Yeah, sorry, I didnt realize to grab all of your files from the email -- If I wouldn't have done that, my v would drop them on the floor as not-signed.
asciilifeform: mod6: note, even tho the proggy ~could~ be used as-is, i doubt that anybody would want to; it is really demo of a potential frontend to be built into vtron .
mod6: This is probably confusing as hell, it would make mroe sense to read through my log.
mod6: It did seem to produce what it said it would
mod6: I guess I just tripped up on some of the things. But, hey, sorry I didn't just do a report from jumpstreet.
asciilifeform: no worries, mod6
mod6: That is all, cheers!
asciilifeform: ( fwiw i specifically warned folx not to blow toomuch time on playing with subj )
mod6: Hey, two evenings, not overly costly at all Sir.
asciilifeform: mod6: say, tho, whether the ~algo~ made sense to you
mod6: If I would have been more careful the first time, would have been 1.
mod6: I believe so, it does this: 1] It takes a press of v99. 2] Runs on each dir, doing vdiffs of all the files. Stuffing output into monoblok. 3] Monoblok has 1 antecedent hash, 1 dependant hash, rest meta & source. 4] You load the monobloks (signed ofc) into a vtron, press them. They press into one giant file with metadata and source only. 5] one runs on teh giant crystal to inflate univ
mod6: erse.
asciilifeform: mod6: gotta separate out the demo-maker from the proggy itself
asciilifeform: but overall i think you grasp it.
asciilifeform: mod6: the included illustration was to the effect of 'what if trb had been made using this type of vtron, from genesis to present day' .
asciilifeform: if you display the thing in phf's viewer, or mod6's , you will see a vertical 'pillar' of flow, rather than the familiar tree.
mod6: And the vertical pillar of flow, in this case, is the crystal.
asciilifeform: mno, 'crystal' is what i arbitrarily titled the tar-like format .
mod6: I dunno, maybe i've forgotten the point of all of this.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-03 00:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems to me a correctly designed and properly implemented version of trinque 's original doodle, which he summarily described as "bundle all files together and hash"
mod6: Hmm.
asciilifeform: ( bonus, is that it also cures inbandism that orig. v suffers from. albeit this requires a slightly modified differ . )
mod6: I guess I need to noodle on this a while, and perhaps make a different example outside the context of trb.
asciilifeform: mod6: see also the simpler example in the orig post , .
mod6: Thanks!
mod6: Alright, I'm off. ni ni
asciilifeform: goodnight mod6
asciilifeform also bbl
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1421...4059 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' (Unknown US MA)
mircea_popescu: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel: Thank you MP.
ben_vulpes: hey gabriel_laddel now that you've got a job and everything, how about a bouncer on the pizarro shared host?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: inventive!
gabriel_laddel: < Not sure why the land of untouchable females & stoners would be "my land", but I'm doing the same thing I always do. Work. FFS, the _point_ of drugs is to be _more_ productive, or to _learn something new_.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 01:17 BigTexasBingo: !Q gabriel_laddel Seriously where the fuck are you. This land is Your land
mircea_popescu: o ? what are you working on these days
ben_vulpes: or are you still scared of being seen to transact in btc
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1561...0167 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' (Unknown CN 11)
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu aside from lisp stuff for money, rewriting some code:
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes I've no problem with working in BTC, but you have to understand that when I say things like "no really, I've 1 computer, ~400 usd to my name and a package of camels" I really mean it.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes That said, will be in touch.
asciilifeform lulz in particular re the heathen 'vpn' ads in the pastebin link
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: 'land of untouchable females' is elsewhere... usa
mircea_popescu: i thought lisp stuff for money is the province of a few remainder whitebeards in usg.missiles grandfathered contracts.
asciilifeform: iirc d00d has saltmine job
asciilifeform: !#s from:gabriel_laddel java
a111: 4 results for "from:gabriel_laddel java",
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 00:59 gabriel_laddel: beetlejuice is suffering gainful employment writing java for the time being
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform I quit
mircea_popescu: how did the sawed off heel work out in the end ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu I got a stopgap for the time being.
mircea_popescu: wooden ?
gabriel_laddel: Carbon fiber & epoxy.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu lisp jobs exist for ~anyone who is willing to spend some time working for it. Sorta like northstar electronics & the dragonfly
asciilifeform: well 'write it in watever' jobs, really, yes
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: wai still starving, tho ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Not starving, am just poor (for the time being).
mircea_popescu: well here's to that getting fixed soon, then.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: did you ever post pics of the foot?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: No. That was conditional on someone sending me medical resources. Turns out you can IV cocaine into spine & it will knock out all feeling from there down if you want to be mentally present during such an operation (somewhere in ).
gabriel_laddel: ^ incidentally, what an ungrateful fuck. He SURVIVED.
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: 'Is there any way out for the majority of addicts who can't buy a boat and sail the Seven Seas?' << lulzy
trinque: heh, at least that one admits the addiction
gabriel_laddel: trinque: well okay Mr. utterly-on-point, was JFK an addict?
asciilifeform: by all accounts, was
asciilifeform: ( though 'to what' remains iirc open q )
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