Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other chicks can code moments, "I earned my degree and license in cosmetology and had a horrible career as a hair dresser that I ended in 2015 due to social anxiety. I still love hair theory, and I even really enjoy working on people with whom I share a close relationship, but now I'm in pursuit of a new path."
mircea_popescu: HAIR THEORY!
mod6: lol
mircea_popescu: this is going to be a standard retort now, "shut up so-and-so, i bet you don't even understand hair theory!"
mod6: for sure
mod6: haha
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 11631.15, vol: 11991.87728486 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 11816.0, vol: 36352.70760158 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 11626.6, vol: 7150.50715833 | Volume-weighted last average: 11751.6518849
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: got it
BingoBoingo: Shipping addresses sent to those who requested it.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what's wrong with fedexing it! << Box that enters the country via FEDEX is going to certainly get hit with customs and the 22% IVA. Box that comes in suitcase is almost certainly going to get waved through as a personal effect. It's a math problem of whether to pay an import duty or plane ticket.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: De nada
mircea_popescu: this is a point.
mircea_popescu: maybe we get alf to send you his pet for a week or so. petexchange programme.
BingoBoingo: Es posible.
asciilifeform: i suspect that the suitcase method only beats the 22% vig if 2-3 machines at a time are moved
a111: Logged on 2018-01-28 00:34 mircea_popescu: if i want 5 boxes, what do i do now ?
asciilifeform: and even then has nonzero chance of 'hey this is the 3rd time this evil-looking gaijin is bringing 3 'personal' boxen'
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : hey diana_coman it is upon you to produce a dreamspec eulora machine nao. hit me.
BingoBoingo: Everyone I have talked to here is a fan of the suitcase method. "when we fly to Miami everyone comes out of the woodwork with a shopping list"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform would be an one-time thing. but hey, you get to see uruguay. it's jenuinely not bad, can go for a week, take pet on trip to bsas for a few days... the city is lovely if one doesn't mean to stay
mircea_popescu: ruins of modern civilisation, it looks quite like newyork downtown
asciilifeform: from BingoBoingo's photos i picture a slightly shabbier buenos aires . but yes, i already have 3 crates that want to go
asciilifeform: what's a couplea moar.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform would be an one-time thing. but hey, you get to see uruguay. it's jenuinely not bad, can go for a week, take pet on trip to bsas for a few days... the city is lovely if one doesn't mean to stay << Rocha, Cabo Polonia, and Colonia are all highly recommended by the vacationers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so 3 of yours |AND FIVE OF MINE, this should justify the trip
mircea_popescu: i pay teh airfare you pay the steaks&tampons, you got yourself a[nother] vacation eh.
asciilifeform: supposing mircea_popescu is happy to risk a coupla btc of crate 'in 1 basket'
asciilifeform: ( luggage does on occasion end up in /dev/null )
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, will schedule dreaming eulora spec machine then
mircea_popescu: hey, mp is willing to risk a btc on http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724167
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 20:43 BHopkins: I think I did it right: 12taDFRdimNTHx1xoUkUZWj3nrE4js6LM6
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ok but not too long. one night stand!
mircea_popescu: in other news, to share with the group for comment : the idea is that even if we do mandate smallendian, it would still be proper to have a bitwise implementation, even were it slow, as a proper model of sorts. so it'd be both of these.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu dislikes the 'we know the constants' endianism, flip if machine's is opposite' traditional pill ?
asciilifeform: ( i dislike, on aesthetic grounds, but that's possibly just me )
mircea_popescu: i dislike supporting idiocy.
asciilifeform: yer 'supporting idiocy' when you uncrate and plug in x86, lol
mircea_popescu: and i dislike it.
asciilifeform: hey why not see what bitwise algo costs
asciilifeform: ffa for instance is result of 'why not see what constant-time costs'
mircea_popescu: i expect it's getting put in firsts.
asciilifeform: very often 'too expensive' turns out -- isn't
asciilifeform: even on somewhat aged iron
asciilifeform: if done correctly.
mircea_popescu: yes well. hope springs internal.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/hey-women-did-you-know-that-before-the-pantsuited-hilarity-gave-you-your-civil-rights-you-were-living-in-slavery/ << Trilema - Hey, women! Did you know that before the Pantsuited Hilarity gave you your civil rights, you were living in slavery ?
mircea_popescu: emmylark ^ check you out slut!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you happen to have a link to the original "how much would a crate of tomatoes cost" thread ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what was the context there ?
asciilifeform: was this the 'what if nothing could decay' thing ?
mircea_popescu: that we were discussing current costs of items, and i said for today's crate of tomato to be compared to past's crate of tomato, it has to be biologically identical,
mircea_popescu: ie 0 ppm all of the various pollutants, there's no "tolerable" level.
asciilifeform: i definitely recall this
asciilifeform: lessee..
mircea_popescu: me too, buyt apparently neither apples nor tomatoes not dioxin were mentioned, though i vaguely recall all three
mircea_popescu: but this was like 5 years ago or something like that.
a111: Logged on 2014-10-15 19:56 asciilifeform: another observation re: qntra. recall mircea_popescu's point about synthetic tomatoes?
mircea_popescu: definitely prior.
asciilifeform: suggests that it was in trilema
asciilifeform: ( www )
mircea_popescu: i recall it as a conversation between us, you were saying something and that was my retort.
asciilifeform: possibly was in comment thread.
BingoBoingo: The difference between the standard trade tomatoe here and en Estados Unidos is vast
mircea_popescu: wait till you see what passes here for pineapple.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-14#872853 , but definitely had moar detailed thread prior
a111: Logged on 2014-10-14 15:14 mircea_popescu: the entire "monsanto increases yields" fallacy is based on the fraudulent proposition that shit-tomatoes are = tomatoes.
mircea_popescu: yeah i found that too, but yes, this is a reference not the thing
shinohai: http://archive.is/vGXxK "We are destroying real bitcoin, hur durr"
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-28#1777688 << there's a handful of lords that are running ppc hardware, which is big endian. there's also sparc, that like ppc, is a somewhat saner cpu than x86, and that can be had for cheap for server etc. purposes
a111: Logged on 2018-01-28 15:24 mircea_popescu: in other news, to share with the group for comment : the idea is that even if we do mandate smallendian, it would still be proper to have a bitwise implementation, even were it slow, as a proper model of sorts. so it'd be both of these.
phf: if we mandate smallendian, we simply cut out a bunch of cheap, reliable hardware
asciilifeform: phf: phunphakt : ppc is one of the two currently-produced archs ( the other being arm ) that doesn't have constant-time MUL .
asciilifeform: though to be fair i have not tested sparc , so possibly there is a third...
asciilifeform still writing ch9, which is actually about this.
asciilifeform: fwiw ffa is endian-insensitive .
mircea_popescu: phf i am aware. do you actually want to make this an objection ?
trinque has a 4-core g5 xserve right here he was planning to ship to bbisp
asciilifeform: and oh forfuckssake, apparently asciilifeform cannot change any of the '2017' to '2018' in ffa , because :
asciilifeform: in raw diff ,
asciilifeform: --- (C) 2017 Stanislav Datskovskiy ( www.loper-os.org ) --
asciilifeform: +-- (C) 2018 Stanislav Datskovskiy ( www.loper-os.org ) --
asciilifeform: but this becomes , in vdiff,
trinque: hasn't much to do with the endian, more to do with "amount of shit bolted to side" and "recent enough to do actual work upon"
asciilifeform: --- (C) false
asciilifeform: +-- (C) 2018 Stanislav Datskovskiy ( www.loper-os.org ) --
asciilifeform: and worse, i can't even readily think of a simple pill against this inbandism.
mircea_popescu: well, the new vdiff
asciilifeform: not with any of the currently published vdiffs
mircea_popescu: i didn't know phf published anyuthing yet ?
phf: he's saying he can't fix it with any of the published vdiff's since i haven't published anything yet
mircea_popescu: which is true and uninteresting!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do a "cosmetics" at the end of the story, by then oyu'll have a proper vdiff
asciilifeform: alternatively,
asciilifeform: #!/bin/sh
asciilifeform: diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(--- a|\+\+\+)/{cmd="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null ";s=cmd| getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} close(cmd); print $1 " " $2 " " o} !m { print $0 }'
mircea_popescu: cosmetics patch at end!
mircea_popescu: !!key emmylark
phf: mircea_popescu: our current strategy with architecture support has been "it works on my machine, but if you want it to work on your machine submit a vpatch", and it's been pretty consistently applied (e.g. my openbsd patch that's been floating independently, despite never getting vpatched).
mircea_popescu: obviously one could patch the eucrypt to work on his box if for some reason he wants to (though i can't imagine who'd be running eulora client of ppc machine, but anyways).
mircea_popescu: the interesting point here is the mandate, ie, do you actually object to our saying "bignum is evil and get rid of it"
phf: so while i think lack of bigendian will create immediate problems for people (e.g. no vdiff/vpatch on g5 machines for trinque, untill he patches it himself), i don't think it's not historically supported
mircea_popescu: ugh. bigendian.
asciilifeform finds that he agrees with phf : like it or not, a good % of the cheap and effective older iron that is and will remain in use in tmsr , specifically in opposition to x86ism, is big-endian.
phf: i find all arguments pro or cons unconvincing, as encoded by elders i nthe very name, which is a reference to gulliver's travels
phf: it's a completely arbitrary decision, that has a bunch of cons and pros based on time, hardware, architecture, etc. etc. big iron used to be bigendian, micros were primarily little endian, both for reasons
asciilifeform: i also agree with mircea_popescu in re ~new~ cpu design having no business being byte-addressing and having a detectable endianism orientation AT ALL.
asciilifeform: but we dun have a cpu fab yet.
mircea_popescu: phf so you are actually saying that there's some kind of way to look at the situation that has both endian notations stand on equality footing ?
phf: right, i'm more saying that neither have merit, and the only reason there's a narrative is because you have to have one or the other, and by nature of having both in theory you have both in practice
mircea_popescu: but don't you find that one's logically consistent whereas the other's logically inconsistent ?
mircea_popescu: in smallendian notation, for every subset of bits however selected, they will be found before an equally sized subset of higher order bits and after an equally sized subset of lower order bits.
mircea_popescu: in bigendian notation, ~SOME~ subsets of bits will be found before an equally sized subset of higher order bits and after an equally sized subset of lower order bits ; and ~SOME~ the other way ; and what the magic size cutoff is VARIES.
asciilifeform: sad phakt : this is also true on little-endian box -- at least if you watch the bits go over e.g. serial port.
mircea_popescu: but this is a problem of display not of ontology, on small endian box.
mircea_popescu: the fact that you choose to have your ide replace all ifs with :-) is your fucking problem.
asciilifeform: there does not exist this separation, in reality, between display and ontology.
asciilifeform: unless you are that d00d in the painting
a111: Logged on 2014-04-25 20:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg
mircea_popescu: ah come on, the bits exist whether you're looking at them or not.
asciilifeform: well yes. but you gotta use the подвиг радиста UI to get'em..
mircea_popescu: the sorts of problems we end up having...
mircea_popescu: i can't conceive who the fuck else was ever equipped to touch this shit.
BingoBoingo: Well, that everything we dig into turns into shit upon examinition show how great of a handicap not having a republic is.
phf: mircea_popescu: i don't think it makes sense to talk about bit order on any of the architectures that we're discussing, since you can only address by bytes. big endian systems could have little endian bytes and you would never know, likewise little endian systems could have big endian bytes and you would never know. logically though there's no reason you can't view big endian to be a bit reverse of little endian
mircea_popescu: i don't agree that implementation limits my power of representation.
mircea_popescu: i can discuss bit order irrespective of the fact that systems implement byte addressing. i must.
phf: well, then you can't arbitrarily say that big endian system is illogical because it has little endian bit order but big endian byte order.
mircea_popescu: are you actually saying "well mp, ~maybe~ bits exist outside of anyone looking at them, but sure as fuck they do not exist outside of bytes, as currently the situation stands" ?
asciilifeform: 'bit order' does not meaningfully exist outside of serial lines, where a time parameter is imposed
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck this is brokeneder than originally imagined.
asciilifeform: what would the contrary even mean ? that the low bit is on left side of the chip , vs right ? what if it turn my comp around on the table , lol
asciilifeform: *if i turn
mod6: <+asciilifeform> diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(--- a|\+\+\+)/ << diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(--- a|\+\+\+ b)/ << ya?
mod6: anyway, thing i was talking about before had: /^(--- | \+\+
mod6: bah
mod6: this: /^(--- |\+\+\+ )/
mod6: maybe the more specific with 'a' and 'b' is the ticket tho
asciilifeform: naa i'ma do what mircea_popescu said, leaving it alone for nao
mod6: ok sounds good
mod6: in other news, got within 2 blocks of HEAD lastnight... never quite did make it... then for some reason fell like 80 blocks behind while stuck on a block.
mod6: restarting ...
asciilifeform: mod6: what means 'stuck on a block'
asciilifeform: and fwiw i NEVER restart a node unless it actually crashed ( and it's been some yrs since last case of this ), why would you destroy valuable info re an actual-stuck eggog
mod6: well, probably wasn't "stuck" just takig a long time or whatever.
asciilifeform: how long is long
asciilifeform: and what is it doing
mod6: i dunno 10 hours
asciilifeform: e.g. sitting and processing tx, and simply nobody gave it any new blocks ?
asciilifeform: ... or still verifying something, and doing nothing at all, not responding to commands, etc ?
asciilifeform: gotta be specific re what node is doing. word 'stuck' is not very useful.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> e.g. sitting and processing tx, and simply nobody gave it any new blocks ? << yes, looks this way. was heavily loading the mempool with shit
mod6: if it does it again, we'll take a look
mod6: node is catching back up now
asciilifeform: observe also that even 'aggressive' trb only demands newblox when a peer ~connects~
asciilifeform: rather than constantly
mod6: yeah, strangely i only had like 4 connections; even with -myip being set to external ip
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: is the 22% actually "we have declared the value of this thing to be $maxint, and now pay $maxint * .22 or never see your gear again"?
mod6: but *shrug* maybe it just needed longer to talk to others. it had only been up for a little while at that point.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: That I am asking around on and seeking clarification about.
BingoBoingo: A common recurring answer is they don't know because everyone they know goes to Miama with one bag and returns home with 5-10
ben_vulpes: how the fuck are uruguayan bordermeat going to price an xserve anyways
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you're especially unlucky -- by googling and finding a usg purchase quote from $bigvendor
asciilifeform: from 2005 or whenever.
phf: "computer parts $20"
phf: i thought that was standard procedure for shipping international?
mod6: ok 3 blocks behind, now just doing a bunch of mem pool stuff. we'll see if it falls back behind
asciilifeform: phf: worx with variable success. didn't , for instance, for FG to diana_coman
phf: yes, that's cause fg looks like some mil spec shit. you just needed to put inside a cheap plastic box and stencil "fax modem" on it
mircea_popescu: honestly, i have great faith in alf's capacity to cross items.
asciilifeform: mod6: at the risk of repeating myself : don't babysit nodes. if it genuinely 'gets stuck', and not merely on account of poor block propagation at the particular time you are watching -- it is potentially serious problem, and you want debug info . if on other hand it is a chronic situation, you want to instrument the thing with timers, find out where it spends time.
mircea_popescu: he has i guess the honest man's face.
asciilifeform: mod6: at no point does babysitting-and-restarting-blindly accomplish anything useful.
mod6: it's just been since april 5th. so im kinda excited.
asciilifeform: phf: in my experience the magic word is 'commercial sample for demo'. but only worx with suitcases.
asciilifeform: dunwork so much with parcels in the post. because otherwise 'erryone would write it'
asciilifeform: that's approx it.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> phf: in my experience the magic word is 'commercial sample for demo'. but only worx with suitcases. << Personal effects
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-man-versus-the-state/ << Trilema - The Man Versus The State
shinohai: Sorry for spam, doing housecleaning as well.
shinohai: !!unrate AndreaGuzman
shinohai: !!unrate Framedragger
shinohai: !!unrate covertress
shinohai: !!unrate knubie
shinohai: !!unrate sina
shinohai: !!unrate douchebag
phf: shinohai: here's a service you could provide: bouncers for sluts :) i believe e.g. znc supports multi-tenant
Techman: rip some of the idle folks from lrh
mod6: lol @ #11
phf: Techman: well, i did say sluts, not "peanut gallery". most of freenode channels seem to consist of 2-3 useful folk and the 20-30 backsit yes men.
Techman: Are you sure you meant to direct that @ me? I'm talking about the housecleaning that shinohai is doing
phf: oh oh
phf: well, to be fair i'm sure i mean to direct that at you, but what you said wasn't directed at me.
shinohai: phf was going to, maybe when more sluts arrive. I thought emmylark was under the auspices of mircea_popescu
trinque: people don't show up at some empty lot hungry and then later there's a restaurant
trinque was saying to build teh restaurant
shinohai: yeah i got that part
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf ch9
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2186 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 9: Exodus from Egypt with Combas Algorithm.
asciilifeform: Achtung, Panzerz ! ^
mod6: hey! cool asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mod6: you'll like this one.
asciilifeform: ( it gives answer to the 'make auto tests' homework from ch8 )
mod6: i like the perf charts too. always helps to have numbers & charts.
mod6: omg it is so hard not to babysit this thing after a year of babysitting.
mod6: im like glued to this debug log
phf: asciilifeform: so i spent a long time on your homework since it's a kind of trick question, but the naive solution that you've provided will not always produce True for obvious reasons.
phf: asciilifeform: i.e. ??``[(let ((a #x]#[) (b #x]#[) (c #x]*#[) (sz #x].0.1-#[)) (= (nth-value 0 (truncate (* a b) (1+ sz))) c))]
asciilifeform: phf: chew this apart for me ?
asciilifeform: phf: why didja truncate to the ffa bitness ?
asciilifeform: observe that * produces ~two~ FZ onto the stack, not one.
asciilifeform: and that the python example uses both of'em, to test the entire width of the multiplier. and works.
asciilifeform: !!up pehbot
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: asciilifeform: oh lulz
asciilifeform: !A ??*Q
pehbot: asciilifeform: 4B22E1172FCE727E6B314B8C59C8E006C757BC27D8D4E74759F0C7BFFA55178C4C2C83F6BC069144F61ECEBF9D8C1B427C04675B8107FCCB541FE11979610AB5
phf: and phf became enlightened
asciilifeform: there you go.
asciilifeform: !A ??``*[print 0x]##[ == 0x]#[ * 0x]#
pehbot: asciilifeform: print 0x14337E4EB2BDBC5A94050DE08B74D0E2A0898FDB8867273FAA974DB195E67AE503DCB77FCB92B67F1DA0CFF0142C6B2481C6205EDA36C4265E5E0AB86BFAF315 == 0xDF812DEB8C3DC0A15994324DB8BEB022DA867AFDFD8E7E1AE704DA29F585069F * 0x172360CF1AA56EAD244177180C8D12BF6C329957E93F2E77E558AE1F7A336DCB
mircea_popescu: behold, that there was an empty lot with a lot of hungry people in it that then later became a restaurant.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'underlying problem' link in your latest piece, eggogs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fixt ty
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 2nd eggog, 'very significant costs'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fixt ?
mircea_popescu: apparently i was drunker than i thought.
asciilifeform: aha worx
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque do you have a working gnat on ppc (g5 or any other) ?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2211 << Loper OS - Dicionar Romn-Englez.
asciilifeform: oh hah deedbot hates orcograms dunnit.
mircea_popescu: lol romns!
asciilifeform: who knew!
asciilifeform: i gotta admit, i picture them as units, like e.g. rems
asciilifeform: 'he was exposed to 300 gRomns, expired in convulsions'
mircea_popescu: "lost all his vaginal teeth and instestinal hairs"
asciilifeform noticed that the ro_eng_ascii.txt w4r3z was a mega-popular item in the machine log , for quite some time, and so went to put this flag on it.
asciilifeform: the item mircea_popescu gave, 'dex', is also on the conveyor, but will prolly have to wait for peacetime
mircea_popescu: di provenza il mar, il suol...
mircea_popescu: aaand in other "guess what sf ideas i got", what if females had no tits, but instead they grew these almond-sized blobs of semi-hard fat on their neck, sorta like corn nibblets on the cobb, and kids just you know, nibbled their neck.
mircea_popescu: sorta grow from one spot and fall out overripe from another.
asciilifeform: pretty sure there is >1 species of fish where -- this
mircea_popescu: possibru
mircea_popescu: imagine the cloud of parasites, you know ?
asciilifeform: for some reason all that comes to mind tho is that 1 fish where the ~male~ attaches, parasitizes, and jettisons the now-useless fins, mouth, arse, digestive tract, etc
mircea_popescu: humans may be headed that way.
mircea_popescu: what'd even be called, mothercurd ?
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