signpost: to hazard a sketch, I'd create a travel key, and distribute a disk image among friendlies in l1. after arrival, I'd ping those friendlies for a swarm download of the disk image with travel key, and appear on pestnet.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-30 13:00:46 cgra: whaack: i'm possibly not aware of all implications, but i keep contemplating a 'pesttronic block explorer' accepting read-only sql queries from wot
signpost: but upstack, the logical progression of IRC botworks is being able to (deedbot:deed "signed payload to be deeded") into pest, and receive back an ack that it was heard.
signpost: would be quite marvelous to interact with "bots" in this manner, where you pass them a structured request, and receive a structured response back via pest.
cgra: whaack: i'm possibly not aware of all implications, but i keep contemplating a 'pesttronic block explorer' accepting read-only sql queries from wot
billymg: i backfilled the lines in #a from asciilifeform's logger. only one line was dropped in pest (which i pasted in the channel). i've added 8gb of swap to the rk for now but will have to plug the unsanitized client input hole tomorrow
asciilifeform: billymg: eggog 500 on pestlogger www ?
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-29 07:47:56 cgra: signpost or whaack have any idea whether the jetbrains/intellij family also have a decent ada variant? (although now that i checked again, the GPS may be fine after all. forgot why i thought previously otherwise)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-29 02:48:05 cgra: signpost or whaack have any idea whether the jetbrains/intellij family also have a decent ada variant? (although now that i checked again, the GPS may be fine after all. forgot why i thought previously otherwise)
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-27 whaack[asciilifeform]: but i have paid for jetbrains products before and would happily do it again
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-27 signpost[asciilifeform|billymg]: the refactoring tools are god-tier.
cgra: signpost or whaack have any idea whether the jetbrains/intellij family also have a decent ada variant? (although now that i checked again, the GPS may be fine after all. forgot why i thought previously otherwise)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 13:50:48 asciilifeform: btw if the 32bytes formerly 'speaker' instead made to point to one's 'birth' (i.e. 1st 'i am' broadcast), makes rather simple to determine who was 1st claimant of $handle on given pestnet.
asciilifeform: btw if the 32bytes formerly 'speaker' instead made to point to one's 'birth' (i.e. 1st 'i am' broadcast), makes rather simple to determine who was 1st claimant of $handle on given pestnet.
asciilifeform: imposing the 'i am...' msg might have anuther win -- the receiver could ~reply~ to it with e.g. 'yes you can be bob on my pestnet' or alternatively 'i've a bob already'.
scoopbot: New article on btcinfo: Adventures in pest testnet - connecting an Android device
asciilifeform: ultimately if pestnets merge, someone will have to be encouraged to renick.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 18:57:58 asciilifeform: if yer able to emit a valid 'unlock' for $message, this demonstrates either a) yer the 1 who sent $message , or b) yer dr.evil, gambling on being a permanent bottleneck b/w 2 sub-pestnets, and forging a e.g. 'asciilifeform: you all eat bugs, fuckoff'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 19:01:12 asciilifeform: for completeness: if yer ~unable~ to emit a valid 'unlock' for yer handle's prev.msg, yer either a) impostor, and fuckyou b) somebody whose pestnet just merged with anuther where there's a second 'you'. in which case is right & proper that yer orig. net sees you as $speaker and the new folx as $speaker-2 c) yer a poor bastard who blew away his hdd.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 12:07:18 asciilifeform: on top of which, asciilifeform ~likes~ that there aint long-term keys in pest. pubkey crypto oughta be manually operated, i.e. consciously triggered at appropriate occasions, rather than sumthing a rando can cause you to do when he pleases
asciilifeform: in the proposed pest, naturally you dun have pow. all you have is yer wot, and yer trusting its logs not to be a 'cave' , yes.
asciilifeform: (a) eats shit, as he's perma-distinguishable from the genuine article, except if he can cultivate a 'pet' sub-pestnet where he's the chokepoint b/w them & yours, and he's willing to impersonate $speaker erry day
asciilifeform: for completeness: if yer ~unable~ to emit a valid 'unlock' for yer handle's prev.msg, yer either a) impostor, and fuckyou b) somebody whose pestnet just merged with anuther where there's a second 'you'. in which case is right & proper that yer orig. net sees you as $speaker and the new folx as $speaker-2 c) yer a poor bastard who blew away his hdd.
asciilifeform: if yer able to emit a valid 'unlock' for $message, this demonstrates either a) yer the 1 who sent $message , or b) yer dr.evil, gambling on being a permanent bottleneck b/w 2 sub-pestnets, and forging a e.g. 'asciilifeform: you all eat bugs, fuckoff'
asciilifeform: if yer able to emit a valid 'unlock' for $message, this demonstrates either a) yer the 1 who sent $message , or b) yer [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076745][dr.evil, gambling on being a permanent bottleneck b/w 2 sub-pestnets, and forging a e.g. 'asciilifeform: you all eat bugs, fuckoff'
asciilifeform: the 1 down side, afaik (aside from biting off a further 64bytes from payload) -- is that if you somehow lose yer last 'A', and still want l2+ stations to hear you, will have to change yer handle.
asciilifeform: if you ~don't~ have it (and getdata for it dun succeed within interval 'Tw', you display e.g. '?asciilifeform: i eat bugs!' instead of 'asciilifeform: i eat bugs!'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 14:56:35 asciilifeform: Q is H(message, incl. A; and a 32-byte turd, S, not included in the msg.)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-24 14:56:28 asciilifeform: so, for the sake of argument: suppose that (at the expense of payload) a message gets 2 new h256 fields : call'em Q and A ;
asciilifeform: w/ a 0xfa blatta, ~2~ pnojes in principle will peer if both already sitting on given pestnet
shinohai turns on camera while pet #1 is in shower, connect to NaughtyPest for only 0.0025 BTC!
shinohai: I think so too. I like the idea of using it as an "offensive" device, take it places, see what the pest station picks up ....
asciilifeform: shinohai: will be interesting to try w/ that pnoje once nat drilling actually implemented
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076685 << pest per se, or simply irctron plugged into same ?
jonsykkel: waiting for pest on iot fridge
shinohai: Death drones with pest stations inside, wen ?
jonsykkel: cool stuf, soon can have pestron on shitdroid fone!
shinohai: for lulz i built smalpest for armv7 jonsykkel .... runs a++
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-23 23:56:22 asciilifeform: applies (unless asciilifeform miscalculates) recursively, to enforce '1st user owns the handle' across the pestnet.
jonsykkel: so idea is that entire net doesnt necessarily agree on who owns x handle, just that an individual pestron is able to auto resolve l2+ forks?
mats: i'm following along with the pest stuff, might write a small client
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-24#1075987 << word. vex, you've been following along enough to know that *someone* is going to have to peer for you to be able for you to talk in pestnet, right? atm i'm not going to risk losing my peers who may care about their snr
PeterL: solution: don't let dr. evil be your only peer into the pestnet?
asciilifeform: the latter aint guaranteed tho, esp. if >1 msg sent in reasonably quick succession. dr.evil takes A_current and forges M_prev, and sends it out (with a doctored timestamp, for good measure), this may reach some stations on the pestnet before the genuine m_prev.
asciilifeform: Q is H(message, incl. A; and a 32-byte turd, S, not included in the msg.)
asciilifeform: so, for the sake of argument: suppose that (at the expense of payload) a message gets 2 new h256 fields : call'em Q and A ;
asciilifeform: Q is H(message, incl. A; and a 32-byte turd, S, not included in the msg.)
asciilifeform: so, for the sake of argument: suppose that (at the expense of payload) a message gets 2 new h256 fields : call'em Q and R ;
asciilifeform: ^ in which thread, asciilifeform came up w/ interning hearsays and counting the relaying peers, to allow ~some~ distinguishing mark.
asciilifeform: and (as PeterL pointed out upstack ) not all collisions feature an obvious 'genuine' and 'impostor' station from the pov of all stations on the pestnet
asciilifeform: and there's no place to bolt on a 'manual' challenge, cuz again, no way to 'attach' pest msgs to a longterm key w/out forcing its use in sealing ~erry~ msg.
asciilifeform: on top of which, asciilifeform ~likes~ that there aint long-term keys in pest. pubkey crypto oughta be manually operated, i.e. consciously triggered at appropriate occasions, rather than sumthing a rando can cause you to do when he pleases
asciilifeform: thimbronion: recall the orig. reason why pest is using symmetric crypto, btw
asciilifeform: but this doesn't help a pest station distinguish fork ends for marking.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: no pubkeys in pest.
asciilifeform: ... suppose, for instance, that the msg having ~lower min bounce~ is considered (in absence of immediate msgs from $speaker) to represent the troo branch of a fork.
asciilifeform: what asciilifeform wants is to emulate the 1 desirable aspect of a traditional centralized 'fleanode' : that the 1st user of a handle on a given pestnet can be distinguished from subsequently appearing users.
asciilifeform: given addr cast, there oughta be no such thing as a 'broken peering' while peer's station is standing
asciilifeform: orthogonally, asciilifeform still considering variant of this, but corrected -- the idea is, one ought not to process an in-wot hearsay if the speaker corresponds to a 'warm' peer. (you'll either defo get the immed. copy, eventually, or oughta prod him then getdata for it until you do)
asciilifeform: (tho often enuff you'll have entire msg history of the pestnet from genesis. but not guaranteed.)
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: 1 possible issue (in light of the current buffer logic) is if blue(a) and blue(b) fire within 'Te' interval.
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-23#1075817 << say u have following net: http://zzz.st/up/vFniopMQ/20220124_081722.png where square=pestron, color=handle, line=peering. noone has ever sent any msg, then blue(a) broadcasts a msg. yellow guy records msg and relays to red and green. red records msg. green rejects msg cuz in-wot hearsay (draft 4.3.1 step8). now blue(b) broadcasts
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-23#1075817 << in the absence of an immediate message or prod from that speaker (if he is in-wot) , that is.
asciilifeform: applies (unless asciilifeform miscalculates) recursively, to enforce '1st user owns the handle' across the pestnet.
asciilifeform moves 'SLAVE' to 2.5.3. optional commands, and added 'PCUT'.
asciilifeform: clarified some of the text concerning chains, but that sect. still needs major massage.
asciilifeform: signatures nao consistently referred to as seals.
asciilifeform: (the only structural change so far is that paddings are to be noise rather than zero.)
asciilifeform meanwhile made various (mostly minor) corrections to 0xfa draft.
billymg: i snagged pestnet.io, the old bitdash url now redirects to it. i plan to treat it like therealbitcoin.org, in that i'm not thinking of it as my site but instead that i'm maintaining it on behalf of people working on pest. as such, if anyone has feedback/suggestions please let me know
vex: is ur bot on pestnet too?
whaack: thimbronion: so the msg "Hi, welcome to pest" correctly sets the sender as my localhost, but the other Notice messages does not
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-21 20:47:44 asciilifeform: given addr cast, all peers oughta be able to connect directly at all times. (hence wai asciilifeform removed 'in-wot hearsay' section; tho fughot to specify that station simply should not route a hearsay purporting to come from an in-wot handle...)
asciilifeform: given addr cast, all peers oughta be able to connect directly at all times. (hence wai asciilifeform removed 'in-wot hearsay' section; tho fughot to specify that station simply should not route a hearsay purporting to come from an in-wot handle...)
asciilifeform: if a hero arises who comes up with an algo for forcing handles on a multi-level pestnet to actually stay unique -- let's all take off hats & use it
asciilifeform: thimbronion: btw in your reread note the new mechanism for explicitly showing your current chain tips to a peer.
thimbronion: we have billymg's pest logger anyway
asciilifeform: ^ nor, naturally, any packet from a stranger, incl. a replay of genuine packet )
asciilifeform: pestron oughta be able to store arbitrary mass of logs, but in such a way that only getdata (which only can come from a peer) can cause you to look on disk
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-20 12:01:00 asciilifeform: under the current algo, a flood of captured packets turned into a dupe flood which includes e.g. a prod will end up querying the longbuffer errytime and exceed the avail. cycles to maintain linerate rejection.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: oh hm didn't fully comprehend that. So pestrons should not store all logs, but only n log entries, and in memory only?
asciilifeform: in an adult pestron, the only things in the station db oughta be wot/keys/at/knobs. (and defo not messages, for the obv. reason )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-12 19:26:33 bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-13 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-01-12#1002644 << we're gonna need some means of identifying keys for purposes like this w/out leaking bits. possibly e.g. crc32(sha512(key)). will amend spec after folx comment.
asciilifeform: under the current algo, a flood of captured packets turned into a dupe flood which includes e.g. a prod will end up querying the longbuffer errytime and exceed the avail. cycles to maintain linerate rejection.
asciilifeform: also this ('SelfChain hashes are computed strictly for Broadcast Text and Direct Text Messages. For all other Message types, the values of these fields are undefined.') may be a catastrophic mistake.
asciilifeform in fact thinking that for line-rate operation, the receiver prologue in fact oughta look at chain hashes ~before~ searching longbuffer, and deprioritize anyffin that aint pointing to the immediately prior msg
asciilifeform: ( also recall that ~anyone~ who is able to get hold of a valid packet can send it to you x9000 as a dupe flood )
asciilifeform: ( if folx recall, the entire point of timestamp is that you dun have to walk a century of log to dedupe incomings )
asciilifeform: longbuffer still oughta cap at 1h / N MB of msgs (whichever greater) tho, to cap cost of dedup
asciilifeform: the simplest way to make this happen is that folx specify x MB for how much pestnet log they're willing to store, and then chances are that 1 of yer peers will fill you up when asked.
billymg: ok, i indeed messed up my config, but in a pest related knob. i got tripped up when casting a False in the config to a boolean (is True because non-empty string)
asciilifeform: i.e. yer station oughta know ~that~ 2+ pestnet inhabitants are colliding handles.
asciilifeform: ( btw, the reason why not, is 'prod' )
asciilifeform: the desired condition is that all speakers on a given pestnet must use distinct handles.
asciilifeform: this was prolly the 1 original idea in pest, come to think of it
asciilifeform: (on a given pestnet)
jonsykkel: pestron is supposed to keep track of breaks/fork for nonpeers?
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: gotta store chains for all speakers seen on pestnet, or chains aint very useful
asciilifeform: a pestnet e.g. 5 deep (as current rec'd cut) would get expensive even if no one is deliberately pissing in it, if had to search 'all time' log whenever hanging chain
asciilifeform: the chains thing defo needs massage, e.g. 3.2.2.1 not touched since coupla rev. ago
asciilifeform: btw the 'netchain not used' in 3.2.3.1 is obv. a lie, it's to be used for ordering
asciilifeform: gotta draw the line somewhere. if a hanging selfchain can make yer noad search GBs of log, it's a ddos vector (avail. to yer pestnet)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-19 11:47:57 shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074360 <<< toppest of keks, especially in light of entire sports arena renaming itself as "crypto.com center" .....
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074360 <<< toppest of keks, especially in light of entire sports arena renaming itself as "crypto.com center" .....
asciilifeform: ( the 'adult' variant of 'lemme out' is actually digging in yer nat config and setting up port fwding etc. which is what asciilifeform did to make own desk pestron go. but it's a rather annoying chore, and wouldn't work if yer on e.g. gsm modem or other lamertron where often built-in nat 'for yer own good')
asciilifeform: (which donotwant )
asciilifeform: i.e. if you can reach a pestnet where even 1 station a) not in a nat b) already 'escaped' -- yours can escape
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-18 18:46:49 asciilifeform: the 0xfb algo even oughta cut through NATs transparently for that matter.
asciilifeform: even w/ a halfbaked proto pestron, the ~current~ pestnet is moar reliable already than any net-facing system on planet3.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-28 19:37:11 asciilifeform: signpost: somewhat apropos, thought of your lubytron in context of possible pheature: pestron takes a local dir and 'hosts'. peers (and optionally broader pestnet members, e.g. l2/l3) can visit e.g. http://localhost:8000/signpost and see his 'www'.
asciilifeform: the 0xfb algo even oughta cut through NATs transparently for that matter.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 18:34:08 asciilifeform: and in particular, the next time the dc folx trip over the main breaker like in dec. of '20, pestnet is what'll be standing and dulapnet awol
asciilifeform considers otp quite simple to bolt onto e.g. pest.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: think of it this way -- not even deepest shithole simply randomly picks folx off the street 'to try as traitors'. normally there is a selection criterion, imposed (not by 'public', but by management, to make the work actually count towards propping up the regime; which plucking randoms off street dun do)
asciilifeform: this is the scenario referred to e.g. here.
asciilifeform: PeterL: ( whereas any pest peer of thimbronion's can trivially generate a log 'proving' that ' thimbronion : let's go shoot kennedy tonight ' -- proving 0 )
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I think we can leave pest out of it. I realize this is a little autistic - but how can you prove you *don't* have any given private key?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: well, suppose pest were built on rsa.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I know there is no pubkey crypto in pest. My question has to do with the concept of opposability.
asciilifeform: ( there are no public/private keys in pestism )
verisimilitude: We're not voting on this; asciilifeform clearly is the most important person regarding Pest, but I don't find it wise to enforce such a queer requirement.
asciilifeform: ( pest ftr aint gonna win that olympics, if d4 reads spec will probably understand why )
d4: Supposing I accept IRC-like nick names and distribute software faster then you can, I may split the pestnetwork having the inclusive one being able to write both the IRC-like nick and the strict pest nick. Just saying tho
asciilifeform was picturing, 'suppose pestnets schismed over min. nick len. which side of the wall would asciilifeform want to sit on'
d4: Aside from that, it's up the IRC server deciding wheter a nick is valid. So the Pest server can reject IRC client connecting with a nick that doesn't conform. ie. [this] or `fun`
asciilifeform: have you read any of the pest thrds, d4 ?
asciilifeform has various ones, and sometimes even proofreads e.g. pestism on'em, and all that's req'd is to simply load the url in browser
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-18 12:34:15 thimbronion: signpost: you ever figure out a way to get a readable version of the pest spec onto a remarkable?
thimbronion: asciilifeform: incidentally I was able to get a decently formatted pdf version of the pest spec with working links onto my remarkable. Now to actually read.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-28 19:37:11 asciilifeform: signpost: somewhat apropos, thought of your lubytron in context of possible pheature: pestron takes a local dir and 'hosts'. peers (and optionally broader pestnet members, e.g. l2/l3) can visit e.g. http://localhost:8000/signpost and see his 'www'.
thimbronion: signpost: you ever figure out a way to get a readable version of the pest spec onto a remarkable?
whaack: billymg: yes that pestmirror looks great! bitdash is coming along
asciilifeform enjoying billymg's prettyprinted 0xfb. if only asciilifeform knew how to make own www actually display like these
billymg: mirror of the pest spec now updated to 0xFB
jonsykkel: another idea could be to have peer specific knob for "display name" or smth that pestron uses when displaying msgs to operator console (could simply be bool like - always display messages from this peer using first handle in H)
asciilifeform: it's why went through effort to glue pest to irc moar or less cleanly.
asciilifeform doesn't expect to see a usable pure-pest client any time soon
PeterL: pest 0xfb section 3.2.4. Do all handles and peer names also have this limitation?
scoopbot: New post on Loper OS: "Pest" v. 0xFB.
asciilifeform finished w/ draft of 'nat penetration' section of spec, and all associated mechanisms.
asciilifeform updated 'address cast' mechanism to actually make sense.
asciilifeform moar updates & clarifications in spec.
asciilifeform moved sections around in spec; afaik all that remains is to move the buffers sect., write up mechanics of output buffer (and 'getdata' with it, the issuance of getdata's is rightfully part of that sect.)
signpost: swarm downloads, recent disussions of DHT-atop-pest, all figure into this of course.
asciilifeform: thimbronion, jonsykkel , et al : the datatypes thing, moar or less compleet.
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: re invalid cmd, we already have 'packet is rejected' neh
jonsykkel: otherwise guarnanteed to end up with buncha pestrons all doing slightly diff stuff
gregory5: then for parallelism you can change the definition of APestString to: a string encoded in pure ASCII, at all times occupying precisely N bytes, the unused trailing bytes being set to zero.
gregory5: might be better to say: A UPestString[N] is a string encoded in UTF-8, at all times occupying precisely N bytes, the unused trailing bytes being set to zero.
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG thimbronion , jonsykkel , et al : reworked section 4 with massively simplified algorithm. q's/comments invited.
deedbot: signpost updated rating of asciilifeform from 1 to 5 << honorable member of former republic, writes at loper-os.org, ideological inspiration to many of us, inventor of pest protocol and author of P
thimbronion: jonsykkel's pestron
whaack: thimbronion: grats, but what is smalpest
thimbronion: successfully compiled smalpest
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-19 11:19:42 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing, but asciilifeform specifically interested in work which could make it at least conceivable.
asciilifeform: grr idjit mistake in 4.2.3.3. Receiving a Broadcast Message: Common Epilogue -- final sentence oughta read 'or every member NOT in Rb' !
asciilifeform in particular specified mechanism whereby messages will generally not find their way to stations which already have'em, substantially lightening load on deduplicator
asciilifeform found already coupla typos, will fix'em in the 0xFB working draft in coming days.
asciilifeform: sect. 'fundamental mechanisms' revised as prev. discussed here.
asciilifeform: also incl. e.g. notes re ICMPism.
scoopbot: New post on Loper OS: "Pest" v. 0xFC.
mats: i think gemini activetrader is next cheapest, at 0.35% for trade vol under 500k usd
scoopbot: New post on Blog of Peter Lambert: Pest Network Example MetaPost Figures
whaack: asciilifeform: ugh sorry we are bouncing back and forth between chat logs, but i need to respond to the thread in pestnet here since here is where trbexplorer resides
asciilifeform: hence wai asciilifeform thinks whaack's approach ( to have block exploder operable via either www or dulapnet/pest ) is the Right Thing
asciilifeform: the logical conclusion of pest station, asciilifeform suspects, will be a dedicated box.
asciilifeform: to meet the 'indistinguishable from unplugged box' 'nothing to the stranger' criterion of the spec, gotta 100% nuke icmp on the station.
shinohai: Wait ... isn't jonsykkel's smalpest still incompatible with testnet, or did I miss a patch?
asciilifeform: iirc jonsykkel's in fact implements ~entire spec, incl. addrcast, rekey, and getdata, even
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-11 18:34:08 asciilifeform: and in particular, the next time the dc folx trip over the main breaker like in dec. of '20, pestnet is what'll be standing and dulapnet awol
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-12-27 13:13:27 asciilifeform: when there's a 100% stable pestnet, will bridge dulapnet's #a to it, i expect.
asciilifeform: ^ dulapnet worx still, and asciilifeform intends to keep it going in near future (handy for e.g. n00b visitors) but eventually most of the life will be on pestnet, yes
punkman: did the discussion move to pest already?
asciilifeform: punkman: thimbronion's pestron meanwhile mostly worx, lotsa action on pestnet. when you have a chance, press 9983, and ping asciilifeform et al for keyz.
asciilifeform: a serious pest station in principle ought to emit 0 icmp packets. incl. ping responses.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-13 PeterL[asciilifeform]: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=hznF << yesterday my blatta crashed, I'm not sure what this output means?
asciilifeform: and in fact the 'unreachable' propagates as a signal and apparently crashes blatta, which doesn't catch it.
asciilifeform oughta move the endnote re killing icmp on pest stations to moar visible spot in the spec
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-12 signpost[asciilifeform|billymg]: meanwhile lol @ us.mil finally leaking this https://assets.ctfassets.net/syq3snmxclc9/2mVob3c1aDd8CNvVnyei6n/95af7dbfd2958d4c2b8494048b4889b5/JAG_Docs_pt1_Og_WATERMARK_OVER_Redacted.pdf
asciilifeform: and worth reposting this lul here.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-13 asciilifeform: ( prolly obv imho, but nobody but the 2 peers who are using a key have any biz knowing even leading N bits of it )
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-13 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-01-12#1002644 << we're gonna need some means of identifying keys for purposes like this w/out leaking bits. possibly e.g. crc32(sha512(key)). will amend spec after folx comment.
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-12#1072585 << "SafeSpace" a next pest proggy name?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-12 08:38:44 whaack: re pest/blatta marketing, i'm going to put it out there that i'm not the biggest fan of the name, most likely because i interned at a company called cockroachdb
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-12 09:19:15 billymg: i think "pest" has potential. i never really thought of "blatta" as anymore than a codename for one implementation, definitely not something that would be pushed in marketing materials, mainly because it sounds like "blah"
asciilifeform: whaack, billymg : orig. asciilifeform was thinking of 'pest' in the plague, rather than cockroach sense.
whaack: yes i'm okay with pest lol
billymg: "pest" is just an annoyance, a nuisance. and it's the kind of word you'd imagine a darth vader type of the evil empire would utter in frustration when his men fail to kill the enemy for the Nth time
billymg: i think "pest" has potential. i never really thought of "blatta" as anymore than a codename for one implementation, definitely not something that would be pushed in marketing materials, mainly because it sounds like "blah"
whaack: re pest/blatta marketing, i'm going to put it out there that i'm not the biggest fan of the name, most likely because i interned at a company called cockroachdb
asciilifeform: aaand when we have 'getdata', the holes in the loggers' logs will finally vanish for good.
asciilifeform: and in particular, the next time the dc folx trip over the main breaker like in dec. of '20, pestnet is what'll be standing and dulapnet awol
asciilifeform expects that after coupla bugfixes, the conversation will largely move to pestnet
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lemme know when yer ready to stand up a pest station, i'ma send you a key
asciilifeform so far moar concerned w/ 100% correctly design of pest than w/ how many or whether even any heathens try to use
billymg: asciilifeform: i like that http://therealbitcoin.org/ (or http://thebitcoin.foundation/) exists, was thinking Pest deserves something like that as well
asciilifeform: billymg: have not even baked separate www for pestism ; appreciates billymg's mirror tho
billymg: have you considered domain names for a marketing page? at one point i looked for a place to park http://pest.bitdash.io/ and mentally made a short list but never wrote them down, would have to search again
asciilifeform: (a 250px-wide bitmap for folx w/out svg browser.)
asciilifeform: meanwhile (possibly for billymg to play with...) baked a simple icon for pestism to use on asciilifeform's www sidebar. billymg et al feel free to fiddle with it if you have time, propose changes.
whaack: cgra: how goes it, have you had a chance to connect to pestnet yet?
gregory5: I have a suggested revision to the draft of Pest.
shinohai: billymg: ack, was actually gonna get with you re: pest today, since I think yer one of the last few folx I haven't properly peered to.
billymg: shinohai: btw i'm checking my peering info that i last sent you for pest, looks like i might've sent my irc port rather than the udp
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-07 billymg: i've been meaning to set up a lightning node in order to see what it's like but haven't gotten around to it yet. i have a synced prb ready to go for that purpose, maybe i'll move it up the priority list so i can make a trip down the coast to check this out
billymg: shinohai: did you stand up your own lightning node btw? i was about to embark on this
asciilifeform: pete_rizzo_: unrelatedly , have you been following the pest worx ?
asciilifeform: pete_rizzo_: + plenty of action on pestnet.
asciilifeform does not discourage folx from loggin join/parts if they feel like it, but they aint meaningful in pestism
asciilifeform not contemplating any major changes to logotron w/ exception of what's req'd for pestization
PeterL: this is kinda like pest, you have to have separate key for each potential adressee
asciilifeform: mats: generally in even deepest prison in the world one can find a way to sneak a message out.
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-07 signpost[billymg]: billymg: iirc bukele said two other countries were going to accept bitcoin as legal tender in 2022
billymg: yeah, and if cr becomes the next El Salvador then likely the service whaack and i use will start eating btc
whaack: ^ responded in pestnet, but yes sorry i had not managed to see you there!
whaack: are you planning on joining pestnet soon?
shinohai: btw asciilifeform if ya got time in a bit imma pgpgram you a new pest key and try to re-peer with ya.
asciilifeform: and of course 'run servers' for this slimeball means 'liquishit on top of ethereum' and not e.g. pest (or even emule etc)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-09 13:47:17 mod6: Over in #pest, just ran `/quote unpeer whaak` and was about to enter his updated key and AT info. but now, blatta won't even restart. Just keep getting this message over and over on start up: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pgIv
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-09 13:47:17 mod6: Over in #pest, just ran `/quote unpeer whaak` and was about to enter his updated key and AT info. but now, blatta won't even restart. Just keep getting this message over and over on start up: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pgIv
mod6: Over in #pest, just ran `/quote unpeer whaak` and was about to enter his updated key and AT info. but now, blatta won't even restart. Just keep getting this message over and over on start up: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pgIv
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-04 21:37:41 asciilifeform: intends to stand up a pestlogger on dulap as soon as we have a pestron w/ 'getdata'. until then the log is gonna end up fulla holes and frustrating.
asciilifeform will add #pest logging eventually on dulap
asciilifeform: aaaapparently all the random thrds today in #pest !
thimbronion: I am very excited to see lots of activity and interesing discussions on pestnet. Looking forward to getting back into the swing of things end of Jan. Have made some progress on implementing db migrations in the mean time.
billymg: yeah, that's what it was, i'm back in #pest now and so bitbot can log again
asciilifeform: billymg: pest logger seems to be down btw
bitbot: (pest) 2022-01-07 asciilifeform[billymg]: very odd, my station is getting (per debug log) packets from his, but none of'em decode
asciilifeform: thimbronion: plox to take a look at this when you get a chance
asciilifeform: imho ideally in a dedicated (i.e. not irc frontend) pestron, operator could throw in whatever length msg he likes (within reason, if it's a GB may trip his wot's rate limiters, whatever these happen to be)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-06 20:51:40 signpost: the capacity for threading's super interesting; I look forward to pest-usenet
asciilifeform: signpost: was thinking further re 'pest-usenet' -- possib. msgs oughta have a 'the next msg is to be seen as part of text of this one' bit flag
signpost: will be mighty nice to instead take comments from wot over pest, in threads.
signpost: the capacity for threading's super interesting; I look forward to pest-usenet
signpost: anyway doesn't seem such a waste to grunt out a bespoke UI for pest, since others with IRC frontend are already in motion
asciilifeform: e.g. pest spec is 'cold air'.
asciilifeform: ditto displaying/entering msgs longer than 510 bytes minus length of nick+"/PRIVMSG "