Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-02-28 | 2022-03-02 → ↓
signpost: the accidental benefits of geography suggest we'll probably just sit here and rot without much attention paid, if australia is any indication.
signpost: as long as biden and co don't crap their pants into a nuclear lobbing contest, and even then I buy asciilifeform's view that this'd probably be a few exchanges upon launch sites, given how careful russia's been so far with ukraine. though things can change.
signpost: doesn't appear to me they're laying waste to the place, so much as blasting imported weaponry.
jonsykkel: see if you can spot where installed 870evo
asciilifeform: jonsykkel: lolyes
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 23:58:38 signpost: afaik this is how approx 100% of american science is being done, either by importing the meat, or ^
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081557 << fwiw 2020 'putin doctrine'(tm)(r) promises 'no 2nd 1941' i.e. immediate glassing of enemy 'centers of decision making' (where these are -- mystery)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 00:04:17 signpost: as long as biden and co don't crap their pants into a nuclear lobbing contest, and even then I buy asciilifeform's view that this'd probably be a few exchanges upon launch sites, given how careful russia's been so far with ukraine. though things can change.
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $44606.5
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 14 nodes...
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.095s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=725405
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=725405
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=725405 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.146s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.282s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.263s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.253s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725080
watchglass: 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.320s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.650s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.692s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=725405
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
PeterL: I have had three different co-workers at three different places, me: "where did you come from?" them: "USSR" "oh, which part?" "Ukraine"
asciilifeform: PeterL: typical
PeterL: technically, one of them emigrated after the change, ~2000, but he seemed to think of himself as a Russian
asciilifeform: PeterL: interestingly, asciilifeform met quite a few 'proud ukrs' who in fact from same town and dun speak a word of ukr. i.e. consciously reich-aligned folx
asciilifeform: there are afaik 2 basic types of 'proud ukr' -- the kind who actually from west ukristan, conquered in '40 but never properly absorbed into su; and the other kind, 'we want a ru altcoin w/ hookers, blackjack, and eu passports'
PeterL: Is Ukrainian very different from Russian, I thought it was the same with a funny accent?
asciilifeform: PeterL: has approx. same relation to ru as 'ebonics' to bbc english
asciilifeform: comes in a spectrum, where, the further west you go, the less intelligible and moar compat. with pl
PeterL: you think Putin will offer to withdraw in exchange for the eastern part of Ukr? Would the ukrs take such an offer?
asciilifeform: PeterL: the alleged plan ( orlov's engl. text of subj )
asciilifeform: PeterL: the ukr plan, meanwhile, seems to be 'turn into an iraq', invited foreign mercenaries, 'soldiers of fortune', etc. in unlimited #s, mainly to shoot at folx trying to flee cities ('ohnoez, our human shields deserting?')
asciilifeform: ... the show, naturally, aint about ukristan per se (economically somewhere b/w/ the congo and zimbabwe) but other things entirely, loong in the worx.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 22:14:11 mats: bit stale, but the theft of ru central bank money
billymg: "INFO:root:Waiting 45 seconds for new block. 0 blocks behind trb tip." << fully synced. 11.5 days on fx-8350 and sata ssd
asciilifeform: billymg: this was whaack's proggy ?
billymg: asciilifeform: yep
shinohai: From the front page of HN this morning https://docs.taler.net/
shinohai: >taxable
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-08-04 a111: Logged on 2016-06-05 17:05 asciilifeform: 'We are building an anonymous, taxable payment system using modern cryptography. Customers will use traditional money transfers to send money to a digital Exchange and in return receive (anonymized) digital cash. Customers can use this digital cash to anonymously pay Merchants. Merchants can redeem the digital cash for traditional money at the digital Exchange. As Merchants are not anonymous, they can be taxed, enabling income or sal
shinohai: bwahahahahaha
asciilifeform: shinohai: the sheer cheek + intractable idjicy, reminiscent of (remember it?) the post-devourment 'napster' where users were asked to pay reich per dload
shinohai: I guess I should expect no less from the FSF camp.
billymg: for some reason the HN crowd loves this stuff, "wow, a complex new scheme to keep the same chains intact"
shinohai: billymg: als involves bootlicking, which is the #1 sport there.
asciilifeform: billymg: that www is a reich organ, with errything this entails
asciilifeform: billymg: e.g. currently all comments against 'proud ukrs' zapped in ~realtime
billymg: yeah, easy to tell from which comments get flagged or downvoted to oblivion
billymg: HN and reddit are two heathen pits i stopped visiting completely
asciilifeform occasionally reads when linked here; not otherwise
verisimilitude: My favourite Reddit quote is ``I was raped by my wife's boyfriend.''; it's perfect.
shinohai: But did he get pregnant ?
verisimilitude: That's a good response; no.
mats: itll be interdasting what financial contagion happens now
mats: super liquidity drain from sanctions on the 11th largest economy, rising interest rates
verisimilitude: None of these financial games really mean anything.
verisimilitude: It may as well be magic meant for entertainment.
mats: meaningless to people with no money or resources
asciilifeform: aint no such people ( even corpse in cemetery taking up coupla m^2, that someone might want )
asciilifeform: the folx w/ 'nothing' in fact primo target for lizards' drive to show what 'less than nothing' loox like
verisimilitude: I think that graveyards shouldn't exist. They waste land.
PeterL: ever diven across the country? there is plenty of land to waste, when we run out then we can revisit the use of graveyards
verisimilitude: I just dislike them on principle.
verisimilitude: I agree there's plenty of other waste.
signpost: verisimilitude: and you wonder why I call you a solipsist.
signpost: the financial games mean your supply chains fail, sooner or later. then what, reality will bend to your will?
signpost: mats: have to credit your pointing out that btc price responds to the monetary flow over the network, not inflation directly.
signpost: 15% in a day says you're right about that.
signpost: if one thinks fiat is failing generally, can be both, of course.
signpost: though the cynic in me can believe there'll be flight into USD enough to hold the thing up.
signpost: from say euro, lira, whatever
PeterL: Gazprom dropping like a rock, anybody want to guess best time to grab that knife?
signpost: 2035.
PeterL: get rich quick scheme by Putin: short gazprom, start war, profit!
signpost: when you're the king you can only get poorer by doing that.
signpost: having a functioning gazprom is his wealth.
PeterL: can't you tell it was sarcasm by the exclamation point?!
signpost: just replying to what I read, my dude
signpost: I figure there are several parties that think they're going to profit from this situation.
PeterL: lol, actually you make a good point. but certainly there could have been underlings who had inklings of what would happen that could have made a bundle with a short
signpost: probably did, and checked out to london, miami, wherever
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 22:21:08 asciilifeform: mats: asciilifeform's guess is that he's hobbled by traitorous ministers who already reserved villas in miami. is the only half-plausible explanation for over9000 'whys'
mats: i think we're long past any waterfalls, any pinched money going to btc will be to public and private treasuries
mats: can't hold back the tide, migjt as well build up a pile for the storms of the future
signpost: might be talking past each other. I'm not referencing buterin's waterfall.
signpost: talking about the capital flight out of russia and ukraine.
mats: i know, went upthread
mats: like the next time usg decides to freeze a sovereigns central bank balance
mats: still amazed they did it
signpost: I think you're right that they just killed global USD.
signpost: "holy shit, they'll do it to white people?!"
signpost: only thing I can see on the other side of that argument is even worse fiat crises elsewhere propping it up.
mats: just could not resist weaponising the dollar, having pushed that button so many other times for muslims
signpost: taking a cynical view, this takes a chunk of USD out of circulation entirely. can't flow back home.
signpost: not sure enough to matter.
signpost: perhaps they hope china will hit taiwan next, so they can freeze their holdings.
mats: i honestly don't believe china will have to invade to retake taiwan
signpost: just seems timely that they announced ultimate bromance right before russia's move.
signpost: but what is the alternative?
signpost: blockade?
mats: too costly, they might as well drop a nuke than spend any lives
mats: tsmc isnt viable if theres any shooting
mats: taiwan will submit when the time comes
signpost: I'm sure I don't understand how Taiwan figures into domestic Chinese politics.
signpost: mats: what tells you that?
mats: taiwanese capital helped build china
mats: theres no good sign of submission as far as polling goes, its just a political statement
signpost: so political support for reunification is higher in taiwan than stated in western media?
mats: oh no
signpost: certainly doesn't seem like it.
mats: iirc its at like 4%
signpost: right, so what tells you they'll submit when the time comes?
mats: they'll do it for the money, when the dollars dry up from endless mismanagement
mats: the brain drain into the mainland and california is enormous already
mats: easier to learn simplified chinese than english
signpost: seems like we are exfiltrating tsmc as quickly as we can.
mats: yeah, new fabs in jp de az
signpost: https://udumbara.net/tsmc-the-worlds-most-sought-after-company << "TSMC has devised a plan for its Arizona plant to quickly replicate its plants in Taiwan. The move outlines TSMC???s intention to mirror its comprehensive supply chain in Taiwan to the United States due to concerns over Beijing???s potential invasion."
signpost: this is perhaps one of a handful of smart strategic moves in recent years.
mats: shouldve done it ten years ago
signpost: sure, way late.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081654 << fwiw there's nao a symmetric answer to yest'd mpexing -- 'if you wanna take capital out, will have to do it physically and <10k usd , and ask nicely'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 18:13:50 signpost: talking about the capital flight out of russia and ukraine.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 22:14:11 mats: bit stale, but the theft of ru central bank money
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081647 << if the ru folx have half a brain, will do the obv. thing and definancialize gazprom et al.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 17:52:28 PeterL: lol, actually you make a good point. but certainly there could have been underlings who had inklings of what would happen that could have made a bundle with a short
asciilifeform: i.e. 'you can keep the paper, we'll keep the minerals'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081671 << would be surprised if usg hasn't already mined the factories
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 18:24:38 mats: tsmc isnt viable if theres any shooting
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081688 << but will staff it w/ imported coolies, slaving extraterritorially ? ... or charge 15x per chip to pay for osha, 'health care', welfarism, etc ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 18:33:33 signpost: https://udumbara.net/tsmc-the-worlds-most-sought-after-company << "TSMC has devised a plan for its Arizona plant to quickly replicate its plants in Taiwan. The move outlines TSMC???s intention to mirror its comprehensive supply chain in Taiwan to the United States due to concerns over Beijing???s potential invasion."
asciilifeform: ( consider wai the orig factories were in tw rather than arizona )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, crapple closes its stores in ru. surely 'putler' will surrender, deprived of ipnoje, apparently goes the thinking.
mats: no need for explosives, the latest node lines require highly esoteric knowledge to run, no?
asciilifeform: mats: the moar interesting q is who, for what, and just how badly, needs 'the latest lines'
asciilifeform: ... to run win11 ? rly need ?
asciilifeform: maybe, not need win11 at all.
asciilifeform: ru mil irons fwiw ~all on 2uM (u, not n..) or 'thicker'. worx a++.
asciilifeform: and, bonus, rad-hard.
mats: nvidia ? amd?
mats: ml things
asciilifeform: mats: i.e. sv hokum ?
mats: if gpus are hokum i guess
asciilifeform: ru folx learned to live w/out roquefort, will learn to live w/out win11, 'call of duty xviii', etc
asciilifeform: long-overdue total exodus from microshit & poetteringware, who knows, also in the cards
mats: talon voice models are trained on a buncha gpus
asciilifeform: mats: whatever incidentally happened to 'transputer' ? entirely fine 'iron nn' arch of 1980s.
asciilifeform: maybe will be rediscovered in ru.
mats: not familiar
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081628 << verisimilitude will be pleased to learn that tombs which nobody ups the refcount on, do typically get gc'd eventually.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 14:45:18 verisimilitude: I think that graveyards shouldn't exist. They waste land.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081639 << the folx printing monopolymoneys by the megatonne, sooner or later will have to stoke furnace w/ it in winter
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 17:44:09 PeterL: Gazprom dropping like a rock, anybody want to guess best time to grab that knife?
asciilifeform: and with stocks, derivatives, etc. artifacts of financialism.
asciilifeform: ... while the brass ring of 'demand btc for exports' still hanging on the wall for the 1st crowned head with fully working set of balls + brain to grab it
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-28 22:28:51 asciilifeform: continuing w/ this pov -- exactly 0 stopped ru from at any pt in past decade demanding btc payment for gas etc
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 19:01:49 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081688 << but will staff it w/ imported coolies, slaving extraterritorially ? ... or charge 15x per chip to pay for osha, 'health care', welfarism, etc ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 18:32:14 signpost: https://science.house.gov/americacompetes << yup
signpost: with printola, apparently.
signpost: 52bn
asciilifeform: lol, suppose that'd build 1/2 of an intel fab. if 52e9 of 2010 usd...
verisimilitude: I don't like birthday cards and the like either, signpost; does this also make me a solipsist?
signpost: no, believing you have the power to declare things you don't understand irrelevant does.
verisimilitude: I understand graves, and dislike the idea.
verisimilitude: Cremation is better, generally.
signpost: don't believe that was the subj
verisimilitude: I don't understand Microsoft Windows either.
signpost: not going to put effort into having a superficial back and forth with you on this.
verisimilitude: I'm not content with accepting everything, signpost; there are things about which I will think, to find a reason to dislike them, and then cut out of my life. We're human, so finding a reason to feel anger, disgust, or resentment helps one stay away from things.
verisimilitude: Hello, bonechewer.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 19:01:49 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081688 << but will staff it w/ imported coolies, slaving extraterritorially ? ... or charge 15x per chip to pay for osha, 'health care', welfarism, etc ?
bonechewer can confirm that regular 12+ hour work days are par for the course in Taiwan
verisimilitude: Couldn't the US TSMC simply act more like Intel?
bonechewer: and the stereotype of Americans is as lazy, most certainly including me
signpost: verisimilitude: seems you're having a hard time following. I was talking about this http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-01#1081633
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 17:38:08 signpost: the financial games mean your supply chains fail, sooner or later. then what, reality will bend to your will?
verisimilitude: Well, USSMC by that point.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 14:23:28 verisimilitude: None of these financial games really mean anything.
signpost: but also a broader pattern of you living inside your own head.
signpost: do what you will with this observation. gonna leave it be now.
verisimilitude: These games have been utterly fucked for decades, signpost.
bonechewer: My Mandarin is minimal (and I am functionally illiterate) but a set phrase when you think someone is being too lackadaisical is "wo meiyou nage meiguo shijian", "I don't have that American time."
signpost: "so" has already been said.
signpost: bonechewer: spent time there?
bonechewer: Yes, regular visitor pre-pandemic
verisimilitude: I can tell my delusions apart from reality, but do enjoy them, signpost.
bonechewer: highly recommend the place fwiw
verisimilitude: I barely recall any of the Chinese courses I took; the language is ghastly.
signpost: bonechewer: definitely want to visit.
verisimilitude: I'd ask my teacher for the etymology of terms, looking for the underlying system, but she never knew.
signpost: bonechewer: curious what your sense of this is
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-01 18:29:12 mats: they'll do it for the money, when the dollars dry up from endless mismanagement
bonechewer: ghastly how? The grammar is dead easy. The writing system is amenable to brute force effort.
verisimilitude: It's ghastly compared to Latin, anyway.
signpost was using "Hello Chinese" for a bit, picked the transliterated language up quickly (since... forgotten) but the written wouldn't stick.
bonechewer: hmm, I'm at a level where either the etymology is obvious, or the term is too basic to care about etymology
bonechewer has not put in the grinding labor and sheer number of hours needed to get the writing system either
verisimilitude: But, yes, if we don't discount brute force, then it be fine enough, I suppose.
verisimilitude: I was only ever interested in reading, not speaking.
bonechewer: Aha. Just the reverse for me.
verisimilitude: I suppose learning Mandarin solves the problem a tad.
bonechewer: about the writing system, signpost, the TW belief is that you don't really know a character unless you can write it with the strokes made the correct direction, in the correct order, and that is how they teach you.
verisimilitude: The television broadcasts have subtitles, but are usually in Mandarin.
bonechewer: I scoffed at that at first, but I find it really does help
bonechewer: verisimilitude: yeah I was referring to Mandarin, gwo yu. I do abysmally with the Mandarin tones, but at least have the hope of slow progress. The Taiwanese (hoklo) tone system absolutely escapes me.
verisimilitude: I need to finish watching the ``Empire of Dust'' documentary.
signpost: bonechewer: doesn't surprise me given the required precision for tone. would expect same level of fine detail in the writing system.
verisimilitude: It concerns Chinese expansion into Africa.
signpost: verisimilitude: I'll check that out as well.
bonechewer: Yeah, we've all seen the "it's all so tiresome" meme from that one
verisimilitude: Latin ``tones'' are easy, short or long.
verisimilitude: I've only issues recalling the long A and long O, since those really are just long and make no very distinct sound.
bonechewer: For me language is a way to communicate with other living humans, which is why I have no interest in Latin, but there are these
verisimilitude: I was just going to bother the local priests.
bonechewer: sounds good, let us know how it goes
bonechewer must bbl
mats: podcasts are a great way to pick up another language
mats: there's the instructional stuff, where they play it in en and then yournewlanguage, and there's the edutainment where they talk in spanglish so you get used to hearing the words and don't get classroom fatigue as quickly
mats: there's tens of thousands of hours of excellent free content in virtually every language you'd want to learn, barring the more obscure stuff like cantonese
mats: some folks give away the content and sell classes, one pod i'm in offers zoom-style meetups with 1 instructor and 5-8 seats for learners, it costs $10/mo and they run like twenty sessions a month
mats: never been cheaper or easier to learn a new language
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