Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-03-25 | 2022-03-27 → ↓
mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088772 << mats: imho this is the root of the defense. "there has got to be somebody who knows that what my dear friends are doing makes sense" + brunch effect
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 20:15:29 mats: i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling
mangol met several "who are you lowly student to shit on my selfless friends' prestigious calling?" academics
mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088762 << start with Robert Malone (mRNA) and Kary Mullis (PCR test, nobel prize)
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 20:10:12 mats: scientists are being fired and defrocked for disputing the efficacy of various vaccines?
mangol: re covid
mats: kary mullis died in 2019
mats: extraordinary claims like the vaccine being more dangerous than they are useful require extraordinary evidence, and the extraordinarily large numbers of people that have received them worldwide requires an extraordinarily large conspiracy to suppress evidence of their effects
mats: i don't dispute that pharmaceutical companies have done harm, some of which have and others that haven't been documented by ordinary citizens, regulators, and journalists
mats: so show me a body
mats: still reading about robert malone
mangol: compliments for sticking with it
mangol: sorry, i didn't know the word "defrock" (deprive of the right to exercise the functions of office). i'm not aware of any such cases, though wouldn't be surprised to hear about one
mats: malone's story is an interesting one, but i'm still seeing a thrift of facts and statistical evidence
mangol: he writes a lot on his substack
mats: and there's plenty of reporting to suggest he feels his work has been marginalised and that others have profited off the backs of research where he believes he is singularly responsible for advancing
mats: i'll read the substack tomorrow
mangol: no comment on his personality - don't know anything about it; wouldn't expect any famous person to be entirely selfless
mats: scientists are approximately never famous
mangol: the main disconnect here is one of method of inquiry -- you ask for specific facts and statistics, which is completely reasonable if you buy into the worldview that establishment institutions (science bureaus, universities, drug comapnies) are trustworthy except in rare cases
mangol: we often evade or fail to answer your questions, because we believe these institutions lie, tell half-truths, and hide important information habitually. not by any means in most cases, but often enough that when the narrative doesn't match common sense, we're inclined to distrust data
mats: have you heard of the coordination problem?
mangol: a general class of problems where people who don't entirely know or trust each other must figure out how to work together?
mangol: prioner's dilemma, etc.
mats: common sense is seductively useless, virtually all people cannot correctly answer within two orders of magnitude the micromorts associated with ten different common and risky activities
mangol: you can't avoid common sense. we use it to figure out who to trust
mats: there is common sense and then there is intuition honed by experience and books
mangol: i fail to see the difference
mangol: (english is not my native language, so maybe missing some nuance)
mangol: babies aren't born with the common sense to avoid scams, for example. even the mundane kind is honed by experience, and by books as soon as you learn to read
mats: i don't trust the common sense of a student without medical training on the nuances of vaccine efficacy
mangol: you're close to the root of the problem -- it's about our WoT
mangol: your stance is entirely reasonable if you believe fraud, deception, and incompetence is a fringe phenomenon in established fields
mats: on the other hand, i trust my friends who have spent thirty years of their life continuously studying medicine
mats: and maybe i'll hazard their annoyance by asking them to parse some of this guy's substack posts about covid
mangol: my field is computing, and if someone doubts a programmer with 30 yrs experience and a masters/PhD doesn't know about some problem, i find that entirely reasonable
mangol: granted that medicine is way older and more pretigious than software
mats: and rigorous
mangol: depends on the specific area, probably. there's battle-tested stuff and cutting edge stuff in every field
mangol: in computing, analysis of algorithms is rigorous. how to ship working software on a global scale, not so much
verisimilitude: I'm inclined to lower my view of a programmer, based on his extensive experience.
mats: you must know that it is ludicrous to suggest that all data can't be trusted because it is 'establishment'
mats: unless, i guess, it is vouched for by a guy that used to be establishment, and no longer is, because that is seductive
mats: some endeavors, like medicine, require pyramids, it is how capital and research works
mats: there is a lot of circular logic being applied here
mats: afk
mangol: of course it sounds ludicrous. working as intended. i think very highly of you for entertaining our views to begin with; won't begrudge you no matter how much you diss them.
mangol: "guy that used to be establishment, and no longer is, because that is seductive" -- entirely reasonable suspicion, but these opportunistic diagnoses go both ways
mangol: i have no beef with capitalism or expensive research in general. just our particular establishment
mangol: none of us think establishment data should be discarded wholesale -- just that if you add up the full picture, and it looks kinda weird, you should be suspicious. the covid response, when you add it all up, is the weirdest thing i've ever seen in my life
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:00:20 mats: extraordinary claims like the vaccine being more dangerous than they are useful require extraordinary evidence, and the extraordinarily large numbers of people that have received them worldwide requires an extraordinarily large conspiracy to suppress evidence of their effects
crtdaydreams: Essentially was the first computer and kept secret for 40 years after end of WW2, over 12000 people kept the secret of it's existence, long after the war had ended and even the commercialisation of computers.
crtdaydreams: It's not too far fetched to say that something specialized like the development of a vaccine would have a magnitude less people directly involved with it's synthesis and production.
crtdaydreams: I would highly recommend looking further into the story of Colossus as it's absolutely riveting. Good recap is that video previously linked and this one
crtdaydreams: Point being that only the researchers and geneticists actually working on the vaccine have to keep the secret. Propaganda fills the gap between ``science'' and the public (which includes most medical professionals; nurses, doctors, etc.)
crtdaydreams: That of course means that there's reasonable doubt as to whether the medical professionals actually ~know~ what's going on in labs. So ultimately it's discretion. Trust USG and USG funded labs, or don't.
crtdaydreams: But if 12000 people could hold a secret for 40~ years amidst a technological revolution, I don't see why a few whitecoats couldn't across a fraction of that time.
mangol: here's the chip company mentioned: Swedish company showcases microchip that can download COVID-19 passport status, similar PR pieces in many other newspapers
mangol expects over9k similar startups in the 2020s decade if things keep on the current track, with more open boasting in press and at conferences
mangol: i.e. not secretive "defense contractors" but something hip and convenient sold to the public like an apple watch
mangol: i also expect that in most cases, state agencies will find it easier to hack the commercial implants and infect with malware than to design and install their own implants
shinohai: Complete with convenient war in the area to keep pesky snoops out.
mangol: someone said the initial ru bombing runs matched up curiously well with assumed biolab sites
asciilifeform: mangol: official ru claim is to have captured the contents of at least 1 iirc. (and if you think about it, nobody (not even usg) is dumb enuff to blow a known plaguehouse)
asciilifeform: as for the docs -- it'll 'unhappen' in reich. if you recall, the entire laptop thing 100% 'unhappened'.
asciilifeform: just like the 8y shelling of donbass & lugansk 'unhappened', the ukr demand for 'croat solution'(tm) there, to enthusiastic applause of nato, etc
asciilifeform: all that'll ever appear in reich press is 'putin's unjustified aggression' etc claptrap. 24/7, 'outta erry clothes iron'.
asciilifeform: 'cancelled', if you prefer the reich jargon.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089001 << would mats care to elaborate re: how he picked his null hypothesis? i.e. which side is 'extraordinary', and whose 'evidence' is actually evidence ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:00:20 mats: extraordinary claims like the vaccine being more dangerous than they are useful require extraordinary evidence, and the extraordinarily large numbers of people that have received them worldwide requires an extraordinarily large conspiracy to suppress evidence of their effects
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089003 << iirc signpost recently linked a list of 'suddenly dead' athletes. lemme guess, 'doesn't count', 'not evidency enuff' cuz not rubber stamped by harvard...
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:01:31 mats: so show me a body
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:13:59 mangol: the main disconnect here is one of method of inquiry -- you ask for specific facts and statistics, which is completely reasonable if you buy into the worldview that establishment institutions (science bureaus, universities, drug comapnies) are trustworthy except in rare cases
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:28:59 mats: and rigorous
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-04-11 asciilifeform: decimation: iirc they recently abandoned the very concept of 'p-value' in its entirety.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 04:47:32 crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089001 << Ever heard of Colossus?
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089067 << cases of athletes suddenly dropping in the field for no reason (or performers on stage) have been trickling on the gab front page for the last year
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 11:07:03 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089003 << iirc signpost recently linked a list of 'suddenly dead' athletes. lemme guess, 'doesn't count', 'not evidency enuff' cuz not rubber stamped by harvard...
mangol: along with scores of hilarious "totally not heart problem caused by vax" headlines from various newspapers
mangol: but what do these matter
mangol: nb: most of these did not drop dead, but some had to end their careers
mangol: there are over9k different reports pointing in the general direction that most of the vax batches are duds, and some batches are very dangerous
mangol: and that ivermectin & co is "safe and effective" (as they like to say) but ivermectin research was suppressed so they could sell the vax
mangol: but none of these individual items matter if you buy into the worldview that reich media & science is reliable which would mean you can pick any individual fact and cross-examine it against any other individual fact
thimbronion: It's hard to trust an elite that reigns over an increasingly fat and stupid populace. Just look around.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: that part is a 'success' of the elite. i.e. reliable fulfillment of its plan.
thimbronion: Success for them I guess. Certainly not warranting increased trust from the subjects.
asciilifeform: the mcshitburger conveyor -- well-oiled.
thimbronion: Videos of 1970/80s SoCal are mind-blowing.
thimbronion: foreign country
asciilifeform: even '90s scenes increasingly look 'foreign'
thimbronion: Watched Black Light yesterday. Not a single hot chick in the film.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089006 << over9000 nurses & other supporting personnel. sacked for all kindsa hatespeech (e.g. revealing that a 'full' hospital in fact is mostly closed, or empty; revealing details re who dies, and in what actual #s; etc) but why bother to link, none of the links will be to harvard or nyt
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:10:21 mangol: sorry, i didn't know the word "defrock" (deprive of the right to exercise the functions of office). i'm not aware of any such cases, though wouldn't be surprised to hear about one
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089018 << insurance actuaries have been peculiarly silent re covidiocy/vax. no prizes for guessing why.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:21:15 mats: common sense is seductively useless, virtually all people cannot correctly answer within two orders of magnitude the micromorts associated with ten different common and risky activities
asciilifeform: ( they rely on reich.stats , for that matter. )
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I asked a youngster what she thought the mortality rate of covid was - she guessed 30%.
asciilifeform: ( per -- Official -- stats! -- iirc 30% is factual for 90yos. in nursing home. )
thimbronion: yeah sounds right
asciilifeform: the same ones where turns out they also quit feeding/cleaning the vegetables, 'they'll get die anyway'
asciilifeform: * get it
thimbronion: She works at one of those places. Sees the ambulances every day
asciilifeform: quite a few new yachts made outta these vegetables during covidiocy.
thimbronion: My position has been from the start re: vaccine, if you're old, "wainot" try it.
asciilifeform: a kind of organized version of 'cash dead grandmother's pension check for 3y'
asciilifeform: the same folx who traditionally died of flu -- nao get the swab and 'die of covid' etc
asciilifeform: and it's 3+y nao, and fulla enuff 'unhappenings' (the reich flipflopping on masks, etc) to satisfy anybody who can be satisfied.
thimbronion: one of the funnier categories of mask wearers is the street schizos.
asciilifeform: and afaik usg's director of 'gain of function'(tm) biowar, rather than being hanged at nuremberg, is still in charge of the circus.
thimbronion: still waiting for congressional hearings on the origin
thimbronion: I would trust the elites more if they came out and admitted the US is no longer a republic
thimbronion: I don't know if that even happened in ancient Rome, however
thimbronion: Senate was there until the end
asciilifeform: 'this was all a scam, sfyl, morons' said ~nobody ever
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089110 << same as "director of AIDS epidemic" back in the day
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 11:43:18 asciilifeform: and afaik usg's director of 'gain of function'(tm) biowar, rather than being hanged at nuremberg, is still in charge of the circus.
mangol: same guy, that is
asciilifeform: that one still a respectable cash cow to this day
mangol: instructive to read the "fact check" equivalents to all of these items, too
asciilifeform: no shortage of these
mangol: uttar pradesh in india is the other big item re: IVM. covid cases dropped like a lead balloon. ofc, also fact checks for that: "no evidence that dropped due to IVM"
mangol: could have been sun spots instead, etc.
asciilifeform: reich's narrative aint a cleanly-manicured, consistent theatrical set, but fulla obvious holes (the lizards openly prescribing selves 'debunked' treatments, etc) but 'respectable intellectuals' simply expected to carefully epicycle around the holes
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 17:03:20 asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform finds fascinating the psychological tension where folx who 'identify as intellectual' are terrified of 'being kicked outta intellectuals' (1st and foremost by 'policeman in own head') and consequently buy into laffable Official nonsense by the megatonne. ( dunno if mats diagnosably fits in this group, but shows worrisome symptoms imho, what w/ linx to papers w/ 'freedom index'(tm) with straight
mangol: strawberry fields forever
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $44305.46
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1088992 << loox entertaining (and with 'mesh radio' possibilities) gadget; seems to be 100% sold out tho
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 02:16:43 mats: https://flipperzero.one
asciilifeform impressed that somebody managed to bake a small run iron during 'errything shortage'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088991 << afaik worked from beginning (or at least since thimbronion added the 'ignore' packet erry n sec thing) if peer is unnat'd
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 21:57:23 thimbronion: asciilifeform: blatta still works behind a nat for me
asciilifeform: ... meanwhile in shitware lulz.
mangol: zlib - is nothing sacred?
mangol: feels like one of those incidents where hapless googling leads to x-rated fanfic of cartoon you remember from childhood
mangol: ofc now one can just go to disney & netflix for these defilements
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089136 Oh no, a C language program has a flaw; well, that's nothing another fix can't solve, and then another and another and another.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 13:05:35 asciilifeform: ... meanwhile in shitware lulz.
verisimilitude: Software can easily be written to have vague boundaries handled dynamically, such as Lisp does.
verisimilitude: The approach in which software fails when the clear boundaries are hit is fine, so long as they be proven to be correct.
verisimilitude: The approach of the C language dipshits and others is to use this latter approach, but without any proof, and yet with many of the negative performance characteristics of the former, for debugging purposes.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 11:32:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089018 << insurance actuaries have been peculiarly silent re covidiocy/vax. no prizes for guessing why.
signpost: ???And what we saw just in third quarter, we???re seeing it continue into fourth quarter, is that death rates are up 40% over what they were pre-pandemic,??? he said.
signpost: ???Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,??? he said. ???So 40% is just unheard of.???
signpost: before anyone gets upset, this isn't proof, just moar signal that there are hypotheses that deserve scrutiny.
signpost: mats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arrokG3wCdE << MD lecturer at Harvard Medical School, discusses the perverse incentives and underhanded practices commonplace in modern American corporate medicine.
signpost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIOGUYOPAsA << stanford professor of medicine, evenhanded discussion of the terrible handling of the pandemic.
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-16#1085012 Hey, I just realized I'm following that Chinese philosophy in this.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-16 18:57:03 asciilifeform: cn philosophy 'sit by riverside and wait for enemy's corpse to float by' is in action as we speak.
signpost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_LhPMhkEdw << podcast with CEO of Pfizer, imho illuminating portrait of the kind of psychology present in leadership at such companies. the guy's an even-keeled bureaucrat, not mastermind of evil.
signpost: "this is how the game is played, otherwise there'd be no medicine"
signpost: such companies are machines which search out and elevate these.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1088994 << fact is the USA used Visas to suppress the incomes of such scientists to put them under duress, by keeping a constant flow of captive immigrant cheap labor.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 02:52:31 mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088772 << mats: imho this is the root of the defense. "there has got to be somebody who knows that what my dear friends are doing makes sense" + brunch effect
signpost: *visas
signpost: wrong quote, sec
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-25 20:15:29 mats: i have more than a dozen science fags in my wot, that could be making >500mn/yr working for money, but have consigned themselves to doing research because of an abstract higher calling
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089020 << you're fixated on the notion that anyone questioning the economic/political incentives active in american medicine must be uneducated about the science.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:23:00 mats: there is common sense and then there is intuition honed by experience and books
signpost: this is itself a political view, not a scientific one.
signpost would rather like the scientists doing real work liberated from the financialized hellholes they slave in for 70k/yr
signpost: that *they* are respectable does not whitewash the history of the companies in which they work.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089036 << you certainly have a way of affixing your own head-voices to the counterparty, arguing with that instead of what's presented.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:42:07 mats: unless, i guess, it is vouched for by a guy that used to be establishment, and no longer is, because that is seductive
signpost: approximately "libtards, lol" translated to your own symbols.
signpost: so with that said, and hoping you'll absorb some of the links I left above, lemme give the most constructive interpretation of what I think is unsaid in mats' view.
signpost: "The United States is woefully susceptible to the information warfare of adversaries which would like nothing better than to degrade our capacity to act in our own interest under crisis."
signpost: this, if it's a fair rendering, is inarguable fact.
signpost: perhaps one distinguishing feature between ourselves and our adversaries is their ability to act coherently across capabilities.
signpost: it is unlikely a chinese medical bureaucrat will for very long be out of sync with the executive bureaucrats on covid official word.
signpost: this is not to oversimplify, and say there are not factions within the chinese machine, but rather to give a difference of degree in comparison to americans.
signpost: this tower of babel situation on the american side means any of us will be able to find someone within the machine which embodies the narrative one wants to find.
mangol: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089163 << it's worse than that; there is no place where one can go to be educated about the science
bitbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 19:26:25 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089020 << you're fixated on the notion that anyone questioning the economic/political incentives active in american medicine must be uneducated about the science.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 03:23:00 mats: there is common sense and then there is intuition honed by experience and books
mangol: all we can do is piece together an incomplete picture of the situation from a cacophony of sources, some prestigious, some "deplorable", some "kooky"
mangol: this is obvious to ~all nerds re: the "social sciences", obvious to deplorables like us re: ~any field that makes money, and obvious to some re: hard sciences like physics where there's not much money and power at stake, mainly fame
mangol: the "trip across the abyss" that people have to make if/when they go from normal worldview to disillusioned, is to abandon the notion that they can receive "truth" about the world from some place by studying earnestly enough
mangol: hipsters called this a "post-truth" world at some point
mangol: but probably failed to catch all the nuances
mangol: take e.g. the question of whether covid and/or the vax is or isn't a deliberate bioweapon. how to know?
mangol: probably leaked from wuhan lab, but was it a natural sample stored there for study, or something man-made derived from such a sample?
mangol: was it leaked intentionally or through incompetence? who knows
mangol: i don't expect to know any of the above for sure until the dust has setteled in about 5 years
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-09 06:14:47 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050664 << good example of "didn't find out, after all". what did we "find out later" about 9/11? even talking about it 20 years later, sort of makes you a weirdo
asciilifeform: suppose odin himself walked throught the fucking walls at lizard hq, lifted out the incriminating docs, and pastebinned. what will 'we' learn? 'putin fake' etc., reich press will ignore, while throwing in over9000 distracting hangouts, mats will 'believe the Science'(tm), etc.
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089082 << Avermectin pour on is used on cattle treatment for worms, as a result of rubbing it into the cattle
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 11:18:30 mangol: and that ivermectin & co is "safe and effective" (as they like to say) but ivermectin research was suppressed so they could sell the vax
asciilifeform: 'wrong letterhead'
crtdaydreams: you get some on your skin. People I directly know have used it for years and not been sick from it.
crtdaydreams: So safe, tick. You'll be worm free that's for sure. Effective against covid? Dunno, haven't looked too far into it.
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: the wank around ivermectin wasn't about whether 'makes sick'. or even whether improves chances of acute covidism patient. but that all Official investigation re subj was torpedoed from above after trump mentioned taking it
crtdaydreams: Ah. I don't follow news, hadn't before the pandemic, still don't.
asciilifeform: was orig. proposed on entirely logical grounds (iirc being mild immunosuppressant, aim was to tone down the 'cytokine storm' flu-like death spiral in some sufferers)
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: if utterly nfi re subj, wai comment, lol
crtdaydreams: Er, because one nugget of info pertaining to safety of avermectin (which I happened to know about).
crtdaydreams: If you would rather I don't, fair enough.
mangol: ivermectin provided some of the best covid lulz, the "horse dewormer" discreditation still funny
mangol: some reich approved rags now optimitic about ketamine for treating depression, somehow no screeching about horse tranquilizer
mangol: asciilifeform: good point re truth, even after 5 years likely to be a cacophony of voices
mangol: jfk is still a jumble of competing theories as well
mangol: seems like a typical stable state for inquiries like this is 2-3 plausible theories, one normie account where "nothing unusual happened, nothing to see here" and a bunch of "martians" speculation that won't die
verisimilitude: I've consumed some Ivermectin lately, at the behest of a hysterical relative; I'm fine.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089205 << reich slowboated it (outside of u.s. dod, in the shitholes of which leaflets recruiting guineapigs for ketamine still litter hallways) until pharma scammers were able to find a patentable mod for it. nao pushing the latter.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 17:04:56 mangol: some reich approved rags now optimitic about ketamine for treating depression, somehow no screeching about horse tranquilizer
asciilifeform: who was alive in 1990s, may recall a similar story with 'marinol', a patentability-modded d-9-thc which did ~nothing
asciilifeform: basic script does not change.
asciilifeform: in both cases, also was a component of propping up 'war on drugs'(tm)
asciilifeform: where It Would Be Wrong (tm) if a 'street dope' literally adopted by Official practice
asciilifeform: so gotta randomly cut/add a methyl group or whatnot, issue a favourite son the patent, etc
verisimilitude: Care for a joke?
mats: thats a lot of highlights
verisimilitude: I've seen a few retards lately arguing that orthogonal persistance is bad, because then they can restart the machine to ``fix'' an error.
verisimilitude: Persistence, that is.
verisimilitude: He's already aware of Loper-OS.
verisimilitude: Apparently, the author is a teenager.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089219 << sole experience of programming for these is via webturds where restarting is SOP for memory leaks.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 18:57:30 verisimilitude: I've seen a few retards lately arguing that orthogonal persistance is bad, because then they can restart the machine to ``fix'' an error.
verisimilitude: Expand SOP.
signpost: standard-operating-procedure
signpost: uwsgi for example has settings for number of requests for your pyturd to service before restart.
signpost: or "kill-and-restart when blob-monster engulfs x gb RAM."
verisimilitude: Oh, gross.
signpost: technology is inextricable from culture.
signpost: "It is my right to fail, and the obligation of my environment to unhappen it."
verisimilitude: I've long thought that, if there were a button I could press which would kill every waste of space idiot and other such ``people'', but at the cost of killing myself for using it, well I wouldn't ever be able to make a better contribution to humanity than pressing it.
signpost: christ almighty, altruism from verisimilitude.
signpost notes the day
signpost kids, but this motivation in the broadest sense is the basis of all civilization.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2020-01-25#1957213 << went to find mp's line about the bum on the street laying violent claim to his patch of dirt being the form of patriotism, but can only find myself having previously looked for it
dulapbot: (trilema) 2020-01-25 trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-24#1957195 << hm where's the line from mircea_popescu about the bum in the street screaming at you to get off HIS corner having more patriotism than "you've" ever had
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 17:46:20 mats: thats a lot of highlights
signpost will give mats ample time to read and respond before getting cranky.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089221 << notbad; lulzy oblig. litter in the comments re urbitism and even ye olde picolisp. sad how folx can run 100% in circles for decade+ and not ever show slightest symptoms of noticing.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 19:35:03 verisimilitude: This is interesting: https://fultonsramblings.substack.com/p/why-we-need-lisp-machines
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-31 14:18:39 asciilifeform: ( see also . )
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-04-09 asciilifeform: which brings the infamous 'funarg problem' back from the dead
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089223 << then perharps even has coupla yrs to live before saws foot, lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 19:37:53 verisimilitude: Apparently, the author is a teenager.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-17 15:05:36 signpost: mangol: guy apparently sawed his foot off or something, and then died or went to jail
signpost: hell of an escalation past eating his own toejam, if you ask me.
asciilifeform: it made imho a kind of perverse sense. fella didn't have all that many paths left to walk. so, wagner
asciilifeform 's brother calls it 'walking the path', by which means, young thing reads asciilifeform's www, 'turns on, tunes, in, drops out', dies
asciilifeform: i suppose 1 sane reaction to realizing that the field you wanted into since you were 5yo aint advancing, and aint aboutta, is to become a bricklayer or accountant. but unsurprisingly we tend not to hear from these.
signpost: sad version of the monty python killer joke.
signpost figures g_l was being fed cheap stims since well before he took meaningful interest in computers.
asciilifeform: hm thought he found'em as already adult, living in thiel's dens of iniquity. but can't recall precisely
signpost: ah, can't say I recall. just fit an archetype I'd previously encountered.
asciilifeform: signpost: what kinda archetype ?
verisimilitude: Fortunately, I never respected asciilifeform enough to go insane from read Loper-OS.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: a++
signpost: kid takes stims during development, can never feel normal without.
verisimilitude: From reading, that is.
signpost grew up in texas suburbs, was fortunate to have some of the few parents not drugging the "young man" out of him.
asciilifeform: signpost: i've not encountered afaik folx who took up dope habit in childhood. but can picture
verisimilitude: When I realized computing was in such a sorry state, I thought ``Hey, I can make a name for myself, perhaps.''.
verisimilitude: I only later learned making a name for oneself isn't at all related to achievements.
signpost never cared for a name, but probably took the most LSD in his 20s of this assembly.
verisimilitude: Also fortunately, I've a pressure-relief valve in the form of something entirely unrelated to computers, and it's not Latin.
signpost resists, too easy.
verisimilitude: Latin is nice and a further relief, however.
signpost: the masturbation joke is sitting right there.
verisimilitude: As figured.
verisimilitude: No, I stopped masturbating often because it was bad for my wrists.
asciilifeform: the jp folx prolly have an ergonomic solution to this, lol
verisimilitude: Nothing matters more to me than my creative work, so I'll cut anything and everything out of my life if it gets in the way.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-26#1089219 << not all that diff. from folx who 'reset' their head w/ vodka errynight
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-26 18:57:30 verisimilitude: I've seen a few retards lately arguing that orthogonal persistance is bad, because then they can restart the machine to ``fix'' an error.
asciilifeform: it... sorta worx, i suppose
verisimilitude: There's manually saving that state with a video camera, however.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: there's over9000 'unix is great, shuddup terrorist' threads on lolcombinator. iirc there was just about errytime somebody liked to asciilifeform's pieces
asciilifeform: they're rather tedious imho
asciilifeform no longer posts there and aint aboutta start
signpost: they're either paying massive money to accumulate trivia, or aspire to do so.
asciilifeform: but yes, typical dimwit told about 'orthogonal persistence' immediately pictures sumething like a win95 box that never gets rebooted
verisimilitude: I'm tempted to post there again, but it would just disappoint me, I know.
signpost nearly died from laughter when he learned that a particular megacorp lists "complexity" as one of its pillars of model engineering.
signpost: you get what you pay for.
verisimilitude: If it wouldn't reach the front page, it would displease me; if it would, they wouldn't have anything of worth with which to comment, anyway.
asciilifeform: and, when paying to get fucked by chimps, may even get moar than paid for!
signpost meant *being paid to accumulate
asciilifeform: signpost: likely most of the inhabitants of this & other reddits paid to 'fly desk' and mostly reddit
signpost: never saw such little work get done for so much money.
verisimilitude: I've had exactly one young fellow send me an e-mail, as asciilifeform receives. He told me most of it was above him, but perhaps he'd understand after college.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-06-19 23:20:36 asciilifeform: pictures current-day ft meade as similar to maslennikov's 1990 kgb ciphrodirectorate where they clocked in, then spent 9h chasing flies around the room..
mats: lately i've been interested in doing mike_c style analysis of kalshi resolved event contracts
asciilifeform: ( they didn't yet have reddit )
asciilifeform: mats: what's a kalshi ?
mats: cftc approved fiat bitbet without time weights
asciilifeform: mats: how does the refereeing work there ?
signpost: https://kalshi.com/ << this thing eh?
mats: they tell you what source they'll use
asciilifeform: mats: have you tried it ?
mats: no, just want to look at it for now and think of interesting analytical questions to ask/answer
mats: been meaning to learn something like pandas
verisimilitude: Issues with pandas are hard to reproduce.
mats: finally, a good crack
asciilifeform: mats: loox like a 'bitbet w/out the bit'
asciilifeform: iirc there's a # of these
asciilifeform wonders what distinguishes the Officially permitted ones from the 'black market' sort
asciilifeform: prolly 'kyc'ism & tax snoopage
mats: i think polymarket is the single largest competitor
asciilifeform: seems like if yer indifferent to the snooping, wainot buy regular old futures & similar
asciilifeform: rather than bet on 'oil price will increase' etc
asciilifeform: on a faux-bitbet
mats: its a far more direct way to bet on events, not necessarily for this contract
asciilifeform: bbet-cum-kyc seems like a reliable way to make sure only low-info players play (i.e. folx w/out direct knowledge of the event)
mats: there's no trivial way to bet on whether there'll be recession this year
asciilifeform: 'chess by vote'
mats: you might be right
mats: er, no trivial way to bet on whether there'll be recession this year, with a traditional future
mats: i haven't really thought about the polymarkets and augurs, but at first pass the volatility associated with their tokens could be a problem
asciilifeform: not even to mention the obv. problem w/ betting on e.g. death of usd, in usd
mats: are people more reckless with spending their shitcoin (which has appreciated dramatically) on prop bets or nfts? maybe
asciilifeform: the 'hedge' folx have an expression about this, iirc approx 'can only make bets when the horses are actually separate, you can't bet on asteroid flattening the horses'
asciilifeform: mats: even ~decade ago, recall how btc enthusiasts eagerly pissed away their hodls wholesale on all kindsa numbersgame strange
asciilifeform: there was widespread feeling (prolly similarly nao) that 'it aint money', 'why not gamble it'
signpost: this is why it makes sense to invest at the start of a major war.
signpost: if your side loses...
asciilifeform: not to mention was 1 of the few things one could do where stood a (perceived) chance of getting hold of moar coin
mats relives glory of winning 4x lopsided trump bet
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-11 14:46:49 asciilifeform: must confess that it does not to him 'feel cheap'. consider, could run isp for 20yrs and still not make back the 5btc asciilifeform lost on the 'alphago bet' on bbet
asciilifeform: iirc lost at least 10 all in all before quit
signpost: hey, I know a guy that lost 136btc to a forgotten luks passphrase
asciilifeform: hence not particularly eager to look for a replacement, even if one existed ( the kycistic shops not interesting even in this light )
signpost: mined 'em, even
signpost: afaik still alive!
mats: does he still have the disk?
asciilifeform: mats: why, wouldja buy it ? ( how wouldja distinguish it from a /dev/random lulz ? )
mats: i wouldnt pay money for it but it would be interesting to try to crack it
signpost: don't know the guy anymore, not sure.
asciilifeform: mats: can similarly try 'cracking' capt.kidd's 'treasure map', iirc still aint cracked
signpost: should've said *knew
asciilifeform: fwiw the island on that map in fact in cr
signpost: dude was already pretty sad at $300 bux
mats: iirc luks has headers
signpost: guy was the type that would've had a long passphrase.
signpost: and large aes keysize
mats: so sorta distinguishable from /dev/random
asciilifeform: mats: woudlja find it difficult to produce a similar disk , headers or not ?
asciilifeform: take coupla gb from /dev/random, throw it in a 'luks' w/ similarly-genned pw, 'profit!111'
mats: people have recovered wallets before
mats: its not wildly fanciful
signpost: passphrase longer than a few words gets astonishingly impossible to bruteforce.
mats: get some info on whats remembered about the phrase, give it a few hundos in vast.ai time on an array of 3090s, and set it aside when it fails
mats: ive bought scratchers as a younger man
signpost: yeah, cost/benefit will only increase from here.
signpost recalls the episode of the guy wanting to search an entire landfill
verisimilitude: I'm not really torn up on ``missing the boat'', given such stories.
mats: a nine year old can figure out backups in triplicate
verisimilitude: A nine year old can also figure how a proper computer should work, but I don't see them helping there either.
verisimilitude: The analogy I use is of setting paper money aflame.
verisimilitude: One can't expect to have his money after that.
mats: https://archive.ph/niT1F "President Joe Biden will propose a minimum 20% tax rate that would hit both the income and unrealized capital gains of U.S. households worth more than $100 million as part of his budget proposal to be released on Monday."
verisimilitude: It's nice to see most white people worth more than $100 million thanks to his policies.
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