asciilifeform: btw trb could in principle be made entirely distinguishable, if we were to permit asking for a ~tx~ in 'inv' command ( currently prohibited , because prb nuked indexing , but could be brought into trb with no ill effect aside from some cpu cost )
asciilifeform: re upstack -- as it happens, 'trb-compat' is pretty easy to distinguish mechanically -- anybody who has 'services' field != 1, aint trb-compat.
asciilifeform: individual display only of trb-compat folx.
asciilifeform: speaking of trb, i dusted off an old conveyor item, phuctor-like www proggy that maps out noadez ( you give it ips, and it connects to'em, then issues 'version' and 'getaddr', and builds a graph )
asciilifeform: lol, could even describe e.g. trb this way
asciilifeform: Mocky: 'aggressive' trb vs regular, is just about 'night and day'. i also have ben_vulpes's 'super aggression' item lined up for test.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: keccak is exactly the right pill for trbi, and iirc mircea_popescu was actually 1st to point this out, yrs ago
asciilifeform: Mocky: keep in mind that 'aggressive' trb syncs in (pessimistically) 2-3 weeks. so not much point in throwing around whole balls of blox.
asciilifeform: ( all you need is that little bash , and a reasonably recent trb )
asciilifeform: mod6, jurov : trb ml down ??
asciilifeform: diana_coman: erry so often i try an' search for some symptom that heathens know of trb etc., ~never found
mircea_popescu: phf we've all ranted about it at some time or another. needless to say replacement rsatron does not include idiotic half-baked state machines. much like trb-i doesn't include "accounts" nonsense.
asciilifeform: so nao moar apparent when friction at the interface of trbdom an' heathendom
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: something to this; 'aggression' removed most (not all) instances of trb 'sitting with mouth open'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory... nuffin on surface. but! loox like all of trb planet stuck on 544911 ( heathens : 544928 )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859231 << will need to be instructed re basic trb doctrine
asciilifeform: meanwhile in trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_5_6_7_ProcessBlock.txt
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect idea was 'make him manually gpg --verify ... and then press by hand-gnupatch a la pre-v trb, better than signed tar'. but i'ma let phf clarify.
asciilifeform: rereading is great, but it isn't cost-free. if i sit down to reread trb , i'ma have to come back in a ~year
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857737 << nicoleci - So what was going on there was this: I had compiled a new trb with a new patch that I was testing, and I was remarking about that it's build was finished.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-03 13:28 asciilifeform: aaand i'ma skip this morning's 'in trb observatory...' , it's a straight line of 'ACCEPTED' from known trb people
asciilifeform: i'm quite reluctant to sink substantial moneys into heathen isps, for obv. reason. in that thread was thinking of 'cash and carry' modest item, strictly for moar-trb.
asciilifeform: ( possibly he even has it nao, i recall seeing a trb noad running from ru not too long ago )
asciilifeform: here is also where i must note that , while i'd like moar / moar-dispersed trb nodez, my time budget for trying to talk sense into remote orcs is quite limited atm
asciilifeform: 'Asciilifeform ran the experimental patch bringup in trb node zoolag' << bahahahawaaat
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 04:22 mod6: sweet, trb is done
asciilifeform: aaand i'ma skip this morning's 'in trb observatory...' , it's a straight line of 'ACCEPTED' from known trb people
asciilifeform: sooo if anybody ( mircea_popescu ? diana_coman ? ) knows of some place that 1) isn't complete shit 2) doesn't have a trb noad living there yet -- plox to write in.
asciilifeform: i've been thinking i oughta conjure up moar trb nodez, but erry time i sit down and look to do it, end up thinking 'why give money to heathen derps'. but on other hand it dun do much good to put 9000 nodes all in pizarro. but to which heathen can give moneys without retching..
BingoBoingo: It's also possible there's another trb node I haven't put my own eyes on running on a residential connection in this country
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_moar_ProcessBlock.txt << caught up..
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:12 asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_ProcessBlock.txt
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 03:10 mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:58 mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work.
mod6: Good thing trb has burned off many warts. However, some warts are so deep, would kill the paitent.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the trb observatory, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cMfST/?raw=true << restarted zoolag, and confirms my earlier hypothesis -- 'bastards' from friendlies are simply when they throw their latest block blindly at each peer, without concern for who actually can eat it, and who cannot. shitoshi's shit protocol.
asciilifeform: i dun see why it would apply to trb tho, trb must have write or it cannot store blox.
diana_coman: yes, it's better stated that way: focused but not limited to trb
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856377 << well, the way i read the 1-2-3-4 progression from above is that "it is focused but not limited to trb, supposed to outreach from it".
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: ( and imho all of the people qualified to work on trbi, are already here, they dun need to see duck races to be persuaded to come... )
mod6: Not only FFA, but other parts of TRB that I'd love to educate myself upon. I think you take my meaning.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading
mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work.
diana_coman: I certainly think mod6 is and has been doing a great job in maintaining the v-tree for trb - and as I said before, I don't think it's something linked to tbf chair position
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:09 asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to
mod6: I love trb, and doing the foundation. I take a very measured, meticulous, methodical, and detail oriented approach to the work to provide a very sound patch set -- as best as I can.
mod6: Right now, I've got two major struggles. The Foundation, which I feel like I've been at least successful at the trb curation end of (and am certainly much more well suited for), and Pizarro.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 13:57 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264
diana_coman: so then that, fine; not to do with trb though per se, cool
diana_coman: I don't see that related to one specific chair, I guess; i.e. I don't even see a problem if mod6 wants to continue testing the patches and maintaining the tree even if he is not trb chair (not that he has to continue, but neither does he have to pass the job on if he is not chair anymore)
asciilifeform: as i observed just today and on 9000 occasions, even the simple thing of 'why can a trb node be 100 blox behind a fellow trb peer' is not yet licked
asciilifeform: fwiw i see my own work on trb, to date, as a ~defensive~ affair, i.e. to make whatever fixes req'd to keep the thing working precisely as it worked in 2009, in the face of the very real and continuing network rot / 9000 forms of active attack from heathendom to date
diana_coman: I agree that there is plenty of work to be done on trb, sure; but I don't see the subtraction thing
diana_coman: i.e. what does one have to do with the other? what, hanbot should now start working on trb if she becomes chair?
asciilifeform: way i see it, there's plenty of sharp edges left on good old trb, and any new work ought not to subtract from the very real remaining work of smoothing'em out.
asciilifeform: errything done to date, related to trb at least tangentially.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb
asciilifeform: ( and imho all of the people qualified to work on trbi, are already here, they dun need to see duck races to be persuaded to come... )
asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856296 << i gotta admit that i dun see point in 'growth for growth's sake'. there was already prb 'foundation' for ~that~. tbf is for maintaining & improving (constructively! there's plenty of actual ills to cure, that dun reduce to 'not enuff heathen notoriety' ) trb.
asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to
asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
asciilifeform: and yea it's http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1362 that trb (and for that matter heathens, but fuck'em) doesn't respond to sanely.
asciilifeform: i'm pretty curious why a trb node is able to answer pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, uint256(0)); with ANYTHING other than the immediately-missing next block, when it is known to have it.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 00:59 asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264
mircea_popescu: i did not say "infect with trb".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: could've sworn we had the 'infect with trb' thread ..
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 03:24 hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like?
hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like?
asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb.
mod6: I'll be working on the Pizarro report over the next few days. After which time, I'll start looking into creating a keccak version of the TRB tree.
asciilifeform: as for others, i dun recall who is 149.56.19.79 but iirc also trb
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855579 >> http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/9_30_ProcessBlock.txt << thus far .
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:51 asciilifeform: and yes if there were some magical way to get errybody who benefits from tbf and ergo working btc net, to put into the piggy, it'd be splendid, thing could fund even such things as flotillae of noads, or even trbi dev, etc, whoknows. but there is no magic. and it is a lucky thing that tbf in fact has the coin with which to do the bare minimum and host patches ( not on shitazon! jurov ! ) and handful of reliable nodes.
asciilifeform: the 1 gotcha is that most trb-related items afaik constrained by scarcity of skilled l1 hands, not coin as such
trinque: rather than trying to think of ways to throw money directly at trb. it by itself dun want any, or anything.
trinque: one thing that looks interesting externally is tbh throwing first doing something to actively seek out non-knuckleheads (yo esthlos, what do you do for a living again?) and see if a quarter or two of float can get folks building things that put hard pressure on trb thriving.
asciilifeform: right nao we only have blox because chinese d00dz i've never heard of, and dun expect to, run ~trb-compat proggies. i've nfi if trb per se helps this state of affairs to continue, but for so long as it continues, oughta at least not interfere, imho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun propose to 'help' heathens somehow against will. but imho anyffig that in any way makes trb noad harder to stand up than strictly must -- yields terrain to enemy.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:40 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << to the extent ( and it is a ~substantial~ extent ) that a healthy btc net relies on ~widely~ available sane client, incl yes even for miners, to limit in any way the distribution of trb src is imho catastrophically stupid idea.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as for 'premium' noad access, recall how the mircea_popescu 'trbi' thread was born. ( classical btc offers no sweet pill for how to reward node operators. any attempt to charge for 'gets mined faster' inevitably reduces to a game the miners can themselves win, cutting out middlemen )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i see no gain from putting any obstacle in front of anyone, heathen, chinese, martian, good, evil, who wants to run trb .
asciilifeform: and yes at least 1 cretin 'stole' trb. what did it get him.
ben_vulpes: mm, i didn't mean to suggest 'republic only' trb net. it is however a pretty sane client for the extant network, and perhaps there is value in gating access to such a gem from teh hoi polloi. what with trinque's impending hotwallet patches and his demonstration of their value with trb services, the gem will become only of more value.
asciilifeform: can't replace the thing with 'republic only' trbi , not without some yet-unfathomed breakthrough, or, idk, if mircea_popescu takes over brazil, or, whoknows, catastrophic chernobyl that fully demolishes the classical btc net
asciilifeform: and yes if there were some magical way to get errybody who benefits from tbf and ergo working btc net, to put into the piggy, it'd be splendid, thing could fund even such things as flotillae of noads, or even trbi dev, etc, whoknows. but there is no magic. and it is a lucky thing that tbf in fact has the coin with which to do the bare minimum and host patches ( not on shitazon! jurov ! ) and handful of reliable nodes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << to the extent ( and it is a ~substantial~ extent ) that a healthy btc net relies on ~widely~ available sane client, incl yes even for miners, to limit in any way the distribution of trb src is imho catastrophically stupid idea.
trinque: yeh, this is why I prefer strapping myself to a business requirement for trb working well, rather than joining up on TBF
asciilifeform: to date i haven't conceived of how to make trb into a subscription service ( my 1 attempt at the problem was the 'wires' item ) but this should not discourage others
trinque: beyond hot-wallet-subscription, notions of trb-as-a-service sit, for in-WoT developers that want highly available programming interfaces to a trb fleet
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: birth of trb was 100% powered by 'muscle-powered v' of gpg-signed patches, recall.
asciilifeform: without rock-solid trb, there is no bitcoin , at least not in any shape i'd particularly care to be connected with.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc it was kinda chartered with carte blanche, "do whatever, just do". the way history flew it worked out as a sort of "holder of trb project" pretty much yes.
asciilifeform: ( imho -- it's a preservation proj , to keep the thing going until trbi etc )
asciilifeform: and imho last thing trb needs is '9000 new idea'
asciilifeform: mod6: ftr i'm 100% satisfied with your work as trb chair
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: currently not clear to me how there'd be less work if trb were 'mod6 proj' instaed of 'foundation'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i disagree, btw, that 'epsilon', march-current is when the aggression thing was deployed & tested to exhaustion, and gave proper ~realtime block propagation for 1st time since trb birth
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:32 mircea_popescu: considering the rate of new work on trb approximates epsilon for the march-september interval, it seems to me entirely bullshit, this manufactured problem of "oh, we have no way to contribute because no working keccak".
mircea_popescu: considering the rate of new work on trb approximates epsilon for the march-september interval, it seems to me entirely bullshit, this manufactured problem of "oh, we have no way to contribute because no working keccak".
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 22:54 mod6: Anyway, TRB will live on as SHA512 hashes in vpatches until there is a very clean way to switch. For The Foundation, the switch needs to be very seemless for newbs.
mod6: Anyway, TRB will live on as SHA512 hashes in vpatches until there is a very clean way to switch. For The Foundation, the switch needs to be very seemless for newbs.
trinque: eh this is no reason to completely halt trb progress meanwhile
mod6: I want users to be able to get a vtron, as they do now, with v.pl, then build trb in very much the same way they are able to today.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already. << I'm probably not going to do this until there is a vtron that supports keccak.
mircea_popescu: the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already.
asciilifeform: this experiment will work 9000x better once there's several trb folx other than asciilifeform doing it, cuz learning 'block x came from... this-here trb noad' dun tell me much, it'd be useful to know where ~he~ got it, etc
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers ! trb node zoolag will be down for approx 20min for experimental patch bringup, starting 5min from nao.
mod6: sweet, trb is done
BingoBoingo: Gone from cover of "loud redditards" pissing UDP at webservers to bloat blocker shitting turd boluses at trb nodes
asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol recall how we even ended up with v, ' asciilifeform : 'it is obvious!11 how to arrange trb patches' errybodyelse : 'nah' )
asciilifeform: once it ~does~ exist, and fully displaces the duct tape, then yes i'ma start regrinding other things , and i expect then mod6 -- trb, etc
asciilifeform: apparently diana_coman has been hand-cranking it, sorta like asciilifeform's 1st yr of trb pre-vtron
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trb is 100% sha currently
asciilifeform: wouldn't go this far; dunno about mircea_popescu , but i'm presently connected to fleanode, trb, etc via tcp
asciilifeform: would be neato imho if we could bring 2.6 back to life trb-style.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 20:33 mircea_popescu: otherwise it is discarded. B.T may be pruned (according to arbitrary address list, for instance). Rate limiting in TRB.N may be constructed to observe N.B items that fail to propagate to B.B and ban the originating peers.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595770 << alluded to in the more specified TRB.B/TRB.N prototype design.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+trb-i << interesting list, at that.
asciilifeform: iirc was one of the moar recent 'trb-i' mircea_popescu threads
mircea_popescu: but yes, this is the other half -- need to bake trb nodes that won't get insta-banned by wot-trb on sight because they spew garbage
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853601 << this seems so to me. how about we wot the trb, rather than iptables it.
asciilifeform: sanely-behaving nodes (both trb and hypothetical trb-compatible heathens, which exist, or we'd see 0 blox) ought to be able to find ~and keep~ each other company
asciilifeform: imho a trb node ought to only advertise addrs that either a) part of the manual --addnode set the node was brought up with , or b) actually supplied a correct block in the recent past
a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 21:49 asciilifeform: in mostly unrelated lulz, there are apparently noads who shove a couple 100 MB (!) of bastard blox into a connected trb, prior to the latter throwing the ban switch ( because of the idjit shitoshi networking routine, actual disconnect happens a good 10-20sec after ban )
asciilifeform: mod6: i was thinking of trinque's idea : suppose trb closed all open pipes if it finds that $configurable hours (e.g. 3) have passed without new blox
asciilifeform: trinque: the crapola-gluetrap steadystate in trb is what i was trying to kill with 'wires' experiment
a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 21:49 asciilifeform: in mostly unrelated lulz, there are apparently noads who shove a couple 100 MB (!) of bastard blox into a connected trb, prior to the latter throwing the ban switch ( because of the idjit shitoshi networking routine, actual disconnect happens a good 10-20sec after ban )
trinque: the behavior I've seen is that this particular box gets stuck, always immediately resumes receiving blocks when trb is restarted
asciilifeform: it's a network problem, not a trb one.
trinque: kill trb, restarts, resumes eating
asciilifeform: in mostly unrelated lulz, there are apparently noads who shove a couple 100 MB (!) of bastard blox into a connected trb, prior to the latter throwing the ban switch ( because of the idjit shitoshi networking routine, actual disconnect happens a good 10-20sec after ban )
a111: Logged on 2018-09-08 23:31 mod6: Hi all, I wanted to get some review, on this manifest file that would be introduced into trb. It would be placed inside the 'bitcoin' directory along the 'Makefile' and 'src' directories. It follows trinque's proposal here: http://trinque.org/2018/06/02/v-manifest-specification
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-08#1848783 << >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rjqUZ/?raw=true << Back on the 8th I posted this possible manifest.txt file for trb. It's now been zapped, but I made a new one with updated block heights for all.
asciilifeform: i can do it with shell ( as quoted from trb experiment list earlier ) easily enuff. but there is also the ~reader~ side, who wants to verify continuity.
asciilifeform: which complete kit oughta be able to follow the continuity of e.g. trb to day1.
asciilifeform: i put 9000 hrs into reading trb, i do not have these 9000 to do it exactly same again nao.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: canhaz link to 'hey folx, phf's vtron out of beta, let's regrind trb etc nao' ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 14:42 mod6: Before we embark on an entire regrind of the trb-vtree to use keccac, I think we just need a major release version of a "defacto" vtron that supports both SHA512 (for other legacy projects) and keccac. Sounds like phf's might fit the bill, but want to ensure that when the Foundation tackles this problem, it's on very stable footing.
mod6: Before we embark on an entire regrind of the trb-vtree to use keccac, I think we just need a major release version of a "defacto" vtron that supports both SHA512 (for other legacy projects) and keccac. Sounds like phf's might fit the bill, but want to ensure that when the Foundation tackles this problem, it's on very stable footing.
mod6: To me, I'd like to see just one trb-vtree, one set of patches. And if that means moving to keccac, then we will, and that'll be the only set of vpatches that The Foundation will distribute. (Otherwise I think it's too confusing, and time consuming to publish future vpatches in both.)
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 13:04 asciilifeform: hey mod6 , didja ever switch to new format in trb ?
asciilifeform: hey mod6 , didja ever switch to new format in trb ?
asciilifeform: btw one of the items i have in the deep freezers, is a trb with block db ripped out, replaced with (half-finished, sadly) ada mmap thing
asciilifeform: ( trb still has )
asciilifeform: i suspect the time to snapshot and pour cement, trb style, approaches.
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qSPwN/?raw=true << draft of the manifest.txt for TRB. mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque et. al. plz to review and let me know if any thing needs changing.
asciilifeform: i can see an argument for keeping a cut-down version (perhaps trb's) around on ~some~ boxen , simply for curl-for-fetching-heathen-www, but that's about it.
asciilifeform: like it or not, 'faberge egg' is not a good weapon. to which i'll add that imho trb only recently (with 'aggression') graduated from 'faberge' status, previously noad required regular babysitting, and i've found that this is no longer so
mod6: A while back it was argued that a full-regrind of the entire trb vtree was not necessary. Having all the manifest entries in there, even if starting now, should suffice.
mod6: trinque: Thinking about it here quick, I think I ought to have all of them in there for what is included in a "proper trb". Adding them all in now, would give them all similar block times, but that's fine. It is what it is.
mod6: Hi all, I wanted to get some review, on this manifest file that would be introduced into trb. It would be placed inside the 'bitcoin' directory along the 'Makefile' and 'src' directories. It follows trinque's proposal here: http://trinque.org/2018/06/02/v-manifest-specification
asciilifeform: observe that trb in fact worx pretty well, even though mircea_popescu did not lay cable.
mod6: afaik it's just running trb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: puzzler might have all sortsa interesting applications, possibly all the way to e.g. defraggings in a hypothetical trbi
a111: Logged on 2018-08-22 14:34 asciilifeform: in other heathen lulz, https://archive.is/yUvwS << 2017-style shitfork , rebranded as a kind of faux-trb, 'Satoshi Vision' of... 'block size to 128 MB'
asciilifeform: in other heathen lulz, https://archive.is/yUvwS << 2017-style shitfork , rebranded as a kind of faux-trb, 'Satoshi Vision' of... 'block size to 128 MB'
asciilifeform: mod6: hey, at least wolf d00d didn't go to whatevercon in vegas and present trb as own phd work or whatnot
a111: Logged on 2018-08-17 15:08 mod6: ok sooo he did get a trb built from the guide and get it running. not sure why he never stopped in here. and ya, looks like he just grabbed everything and mirrored it on his site.
mod6: ok sooo he did get a trb built from the guide and get it running. not sure why he never stopped in here. and ya, looks like he just grabbed everything and mirrored it on his site.
asciilifeform: mod6: http://edgecase.net/articles/2017-11-25_edgecase_datafeed_article_21_2017-11-25_stjohn_piano_compiling_bitcoind_trb_054_on_debian_711/rotor.tar.gz.asc , http://edgecase.net/articles/2017-11-25_edgecase_datafeed_article_21_2017-11-25_stjohn_piano_compiling_bitcoind_trb_054_on_debian_711/programmable-versionstring.vpatch , buncha others
asciilifeform: dredged up d00d via script that digs for refs to trb in heathendom. turns out, he hosts mirror of trb patches ( they dun seem to be discussed in articles tho, near as i can see )
deedbot: http://trinque.org/2018/08/16/new-trb-node-at-1610121250/ << trinque - New TRB Node at 161.0.121.250
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: threading in trb is exactly variant of ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 -- it's there because idjit had nfi how to do nonblocking i/o
mircea_popescu: (yes, i'm using this to raise the army that'll surgerize trb, of course, of course)
asciilifeform: lol exactly like trb?!
a111: Logged on 2018-08-14 20:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-08-14.log.html#t01:52:40 << incidentally asciilifeform coupla yrs ago made failed attempt to replace 'boost' in trb with cpp11isms. principle obstacle was that gcc 4.9x doesn't really have 100% working cpp11.
asciilifeform: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-08-14.log.html#t01:52:40 << incidentally asciilifeform coupla yrs ago made failed attempt to replace 'boost' in trb with cpp11isms. principle obstacle was that gcc 4.9x doesn't really have 100% working cpp11.
asciilifeform: Mocky: cpp proggy always rides on libc. witness trb, the orig experiment with musl here.
asciilifeform: trb noad is up again as of nao.
asciilifeform: iirc Funkenstein remains the unbeaten recordsman there ( operated, at least at 1 point, a shitfork based on cribbed trb )
mod6: Alright all, the TRB vtree was updated with asciilifeform's ascii-armored pgp sig.
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 2 days, 0 hours, and 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> plox to update stable trb tree in http://btcbase.org/patches from mod6's
asciilifeform looks at 'ircd-ratbox' , somewhat astonished at the mass, coupla MB of src (moar than, e.g., trb)
mod6: Well, as he said, I don't think he's interested in contributing to TMSR~ any longer. Even if he wants to follow trb, for instance, can do so from the BTC-DEV list.
asciilifeform: shinohai: can relax, nobody is out to eat you, and yer a+++ trb tester, my rating for instance stands.
shinohai: Well I stopped in here as it is the preferred forum for trb matters, but if my presence is not welcome - well then!
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf plox to update stable trb tree in http://btcbase.org/patches from mod6's
mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic: The Bitcoin Foundation's vtree has been updated with asciilifeform's Aggressive PushGetBlocks vpatch. The TRB-HowTo Guide has been updated as well.
deedbot: asciilifeform rated shinohai 3 at 2018/01/24 23:16:20 << heathendom newsdesk; pogotronics, trb, FG experimenter
asciilifeform: trb's footprint problems are 100% on account of heapism.
asciilifeform: for thread completeness i must add that there are items in the standard (i.e. 'tasks') that i do not use in ffa, but intend to make use of in future ( i.e. trbi ) , and may be let live.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << i'd not distribute anything but trb patches to allcomers ~already~; if i made a useful thing i'd trivially share the source for it with l1 and rely on y'alls judgement as to whom to further share it with but i wouldn't concern myself with preventing leaks-to-kloinkers. beyond that, i share certain specific source with a subset of my own l1 and no further, with a
asciilifeform: ( hence why asciilifeform did not say 'wtf, why you lot distribute binariola, why not post just src like trb ' )
asciilifeform: heathens are , as i currently understand, so unspeakably stupid that 'stealing fixed code' is not to date ever observed, they re-break as soon as they touch. ( any heathens stole trb for the shitfork warz, other than funkenstein ? )
asciilifeform: for all i know, somewhere there exists a d00d who tried to build e.g. trb on a vax. and thinks asciilifeform is idjit, because it dun go. how's that skin off my back.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 15:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834748 << trb node is one of the few items that ~can't~ be backed up in the usual sense. because what you get if you just blindly copy is a shitup not a backup.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 14:56 asciilifeform: and whole concept of 'backing up trb' strikes me as wrongheaded -- the most effective backup is simply a 2nd node.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834748 << trb node is one of the few items that ~can't~ be backed up in the usual sense. because what you get if you just blindly copy is a shitup not a backup.
asciilifeform: a new node plugged directly in ( i.e. over lan ) to a working trb node, with 'aggression' should sync in week or 2.
asciilifeform: and whole concept of 'backing up trb' strikes me as wrongheaded -- the most effective backup is simply a 2nd node.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i've found that trb state can't be effectively backed up without stopping the node ( otherwise indices turn to barf . ) how do you do yours ? periodic stops ?
shinohai: SO have entire trb chain backed up in case of failure ( also www, etc)
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated dooglus 2 at 2016/03/07 09:36:24 << ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-14 13:24 brazilish: i'm trying to running trb on the cheapest possible setting
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834457 << ftr this is a ~very~ Bad Idea . for instance , i do not know in what starvation-cheapo hoster brazilish put his node, but if it was aws he will find that he cannot connect to ~any of the l1 folx's trb nodes, most people ban aws ip range whole
a111: Logged on 2018-07-14 13:37 brazilish: can i ask what specs have actual running trb nodes?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834483 << just about anything with 2GB or more memory will work -- trb is not really cpu-bound . a 1TB disk will last you 3-5 yrs until fills. ideally ssd ( though the exact penalty from using mechanical disk is not yet known, see last night's thread ). if ssd -- i recommend samsung's, cheapo ssd typically burns after 1-2 yrs of trb wear.
brazilish: problem: downloaded asciilifeform_blackhole_reads.vpatch and placed in patches folder, same for the sig file in .seals, then running ./v.pl p v trb054 makefiles.vpatch, but i don't get the patch in the src files
diana_coman: uhm, search for "trb node" in the logs - that's about the closest you'll get
diana_coman: !!s trb node
brazilish: can i ask what specs have actual running trb nodes?
deedbot: diana_coman rated brazilish 1 << He says he's trying to run TRB and get himself a blog.
brazilish: i'm trying to running trb on the cheapest possible setting
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816438 << in other news, you were not kidding! my trb (hdd + aggression) has moved a mere 20K blocks in one month
mod6: I'm happy to announce that The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd TRB node is fully sync'd and will be added to the list of Advertised Republican Nodeds.
asciilifeform: ( i vaguely suspect there exists even a 'herd immunity' of sorts, where aggressive trb helps other peers, of whatever config, stay in shape )
asciilifeform: afaik it doesn't auto-timestamp tho, iirc ben_vulpes , trinque , and possibly others, use linux system log to 'cheat' and get timestamps from trb
asciilifeform: i suggested it specifically to shinohai because he's apparently still experimenting with trb and afaik isn't tied up with anyffing else.
asciilifeform: ( point being, it may very well be feasible to run a reliable infrastructural trb noad on mech hdd. certainly worth test. )
asciilifeform: at any rate, the block processing delay was a kind of red herring, turned out that 'wait for rain to fall' was in fact the culprit in all ( known to asciilifeform ) cases of 'trb node won't stay in sync'
asciilifeform: notably , the patch started life as a general-purpose profiling of a whole buncha things in trb, but i ended up cutting out all but block timing, given as that was where something like 99% of ~active~ (i.e. as opposed to waiting for rain to fall, this was pre- aggression) cycles are spent
asciilifeform: diana_coman: reporting block r/w times currently requires pressing with the little patch that takes the times. ( it is not part of 'flagship' trb )
asciilifeform: i expect that soon n00b will be able to revv up a trb box simply by making use of trinque's builder and then 'emerge trb' or the like.
asciilifeform: rk3328-roc-cc + usb3sata snake + 1tb mech hdd -- might potentially make a working ~100bux trb node. worth a shot, shinohai , if you have a free hand.
asciilifeform: shinohai: prolly the best result re trb on rockchip would be with 'adult' samsung sata ssd via usb3-sata snake ( you can buy short one, that fits in box )
shinohai: i more interested in rockchip now, because trb
phf: ah see the graph is misleading, because btcbase base grapher culls it. we've ran into similar issue back in the heavy experimental trb days, so one of the very first things that the btcbase distinguished itself on is producing a graph of possible presses, rather than pure antecedent/descendent. this was discussed and documented in the logs, in before "why you do that!1"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to bake a e.g. iron trbi, or the like, you'd need to init and talk to the sata card, this is not given in the example ( but not particularly difficult )
asciilifeform: while imho this is not a 'let's do this right nao' scheme, it is prolly the Right Thing in re 'trb-i' block propagation. no moar 'block withholding' nonsense. no reason why trbi should not own ionosphere the same way mircea_popescu projected bitcoin will 'own' mains current generation capacity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform routinely misremembers having v 4y ago. prolly because we were already doing signed chains of patches since day0 of trb. hand-cranked v.
asciilifeform: i cut winblowz #ifdefolade out of trb because i did not read it and don't intend to.
asciilifeform: it is for this reason that asciilifeform cut most ( unfortunately not all, there is room for improvement! ) ifdefolade, out of trb.
asciilifeform: i abolished it in trb ( rotor ) , ave1 -- for gnat, and really ought to end with the logical conclusion, standard cuntoo musl/headers/gcc.
asciilifeform: there's no rsa in trb
asciilifeform: ( why? because asciilifeform doesn't like to crypto in any form, even as toy, on boxes without rng, and some of his trb dev machines at the time had none )
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:45 trinque: could say we want trb to be exemplar of "how to V", in which case yeah, regrind it all
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829715 << nah, trb is the bulkiest and most dangerous item on the table, it utterly can't be the exemplar at this early stage.
asciilifeform: the 'is it same trb' is much smaller problem than it seems, is quite resolvable mechanically ( as demonstrated in my http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html experiment , for instance )
mircea_popescu: much better than having to resolve the "is it same trb" problem. what's the drawback ?
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:13 trinque: so if there's a hero around that wants to take that on, we can start getting trb patches out the door again.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 17:02 ben_vulpes: heh, last time i took a crack at *that* i got mired in finding unspent outputs with trb
trinque: could say we want trb to be exemplar of "how to V", in which case yeah, regrind it all
mod6: because if so, then we need a new trb genesis. which doesn't effect v in anyway, just another pita for trb.
mod6: i see ben's point, but i'd rather trb one whole thing, instead of a 'before manifest' and 'after manifest'.
mod6: i'll regrind the whole trb tree. however, I think if we -must- do this, we should only do it one time. and i really don't even want to do it at all.
trinque: so if there's a hero around that wants to take that on, we can start getting trb patches out the door again.
ben_vulpes: heh, last time i took a crack at *that* i got mired in finding unspent outputs with trb
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: at one time i tried to implement more or less same item you're making, and did the shiva thing, and in the end thought that whoever it was ( mircea_popescu ? ) who suggested that trb should simply eat ( and prompt to sign ) raw tx, generated externally via scripts, was right
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: funnily enuff, ~this very item~ is how asciilifeform got mired in attempt to bolt a lisp onto trb