#trilema | 2018-09-24

mircea_popescu: they go so far as to say "do not vote for this guy, who is new, vote for the known-corrupt-asshole HE HAS SENIORITY"

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853437 << yes. politically speaking, linux must be utterly destroyed, now.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 02:30 asciilifeform: i imagine a maggot's idea of heaven, this, the fresh meat with no prev maggot crew.

asciilifeform: homo bigmackicus will vote for whatever tv instructs, yes

mircea_popescu: which, amusingly enough, is quite convenient for us to do, what with all of trinque's ave1 's & everyoes workl in that direction.

mircea_popescu: transforming it into a shitpyre wherein the delicious butttears of thousands of http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ manaloning engineers flow freely is the play.

mircea_popescu: let the maggots learn the value of stolen stack is 0, and let the "independent", "anonymous" humanrightsetc imbeciles learn there is no life outside of the republic.

asciilifeform: i for one have my kernel, and dun expect to ever miss the Official 'new'

asciilifeform brb,meat

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853449 << i would seriously not worry about this paper wank.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 03:01 Mocky: ha, "However, the new decree stipulates that if a permanent resident leaves Qatar for more than six months, the interior minister could withdraw from the residency"

mircea_popescu: get in a room with the respective people, put the matter plainly to them, shake pinkies and that's that.

mircea_popescu: i never knew paperwork to be worth two shits in arab world.

mircea_popescu: and i never knew bloomberg to be a source on anything besides pop culture.

Mocky: mircea_popescu, so local sponsor must hold >50% controlling interest in any new business. local chamber of commerce apparently on the look out for profitable opportunities with foreigners. I'm not sure where else to look specifically aside from generally making a lot of friends and getting introductions.

Mocky: I'm looking at local conferences, local politics, tech and business groups / meetups. expect to chat up street market vendors on the regular if these are actually arabs and not indians

trinque: asciilifeform: hate to report that I just noticed my pizarro box (running aggression) was sitting there doing absolutely nothing for about 4k blox

trinque: kill trb, restarts, resumes eating

asciilifeform: trinque: 4k ?!

asciilifeform: trinque: not long ago noticed a 400 blox gap on mine, where interestingly restarting did not fix, had to sit for the typical n days and finally meet noads who actually have new blox and dun get malleus'd

asciilifeform: it's a network problem, not a trb one.

trinque: eh, I'm not convinced of that

asciilifeform: trinque: care to post log ?

trinque: the behavior I've seen is that this particular box gets stuck, always immediately resumes receiving blocks when trb is restarted

asciilifeform: cuz it connects to diff nodes.

asciilifeform: on restart. elementarily.

trinque: this is well known

trinque: what I don't have a model for yet is the perma-stuck state

asciilifeform: and otherwise happy to sit for 100 yrs talking to same fuckewits

asciilifeform: i've yet to see this 'stuck', aside from when actively verifying blox. if node with next block shows up, it goes.

trinque: ah, well, the fuckwittism spread, because I've cron'd killall -SIGQUIT bitcoind now

trinque: thing really needs a "everyone I know is retarded, forget them and move on"

asciilifeform: trinque: iirc ben_vulpes actually wrote an experimental this

asciilifeform: but i have not tested

asciilifeform: btw ( and this is not mega-revelation... ) 99.999..+% of noad traffic, is worse than useless -- box is speaking with noads who do not either bring it luscious next valid blox, NOR carry yer tx'en closer to miner, NOR even serve up full chain and enforce trad rulez thereon

asciilifeform: they're just plain dross.

asciilifeform: that we presently have no way to fully be rid of. is all.

asciilifeform: this is an open problem. but there are some pretty simple things that still need doin', e.g. pill for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1853265

a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 21:49 asciilifeform: in mostly unrelated lulz, there are apparently noads who shove a couple 100 MB (!) of bastard blox into a connected trb, prior to the latter throwing the ban switch ( because of the idjit shitoshi networking routine, actual disconnect happens a good 10-20sec after ban )

trinque: heh, delayed gag reflex.

asciilifeform: lolyes

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853486 << twist : turns out linus has 'intersectional-feminist'(tm) daughter, who helped to break him

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 04:00 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853437 << yes. politically speaking, linux must be utterly destroyed, now.

asciilifeform: trinque: the crapola-gluetrap steadystate in trb is what i was trying to kill with 'wires' experiment

asciilifeform: was dead end, tho, at least in the way originally written

trinque: quick update on cuntoo before I depart. the fully machine-driven transformation from snapshotted gentoo to cuntoo genesis.vpatch works, and successfully rebuilt itself whole. I've also got the classical gentoo repo acting as a subordinate repository, such that porting ebuilds will be extremely easy (i.e. gentoo repo is now an overlay, just like musl overlay, which can be used or not as decreed by operator,

trinque: but is not required for a cuntoo base system)

asciilifeform: neato.

asciilifeform looks forward to test

trinque: what's left is to shave further weight out of the genesis (currently approx 12M, but this without purging unused versions of used ebuilds), and the accompanying post

trinque: might even get an order of magnitude out of the vpatch with the purge.

trinque: genesis will be the frozen-in-time found item, and from there I'll be looking forward to patches to add ave1 gcc (and later ave1-reproducible-build-gcc), other improvements.

trinque afk

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853499 << me either, honestly.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 04:19 Mocky: mircea_popescu, so local sponsor must hold >50% controlling interest in any new business. local chamber of commerce apparently on the look out for profitable opportunities with foreigners. I'm not sure where else to look specifically aside from generally making a lot of friends and getting introductions.

mircea_popescu: i wouldn't say that you're required/expected to actually go into some sort of "sponsor" relationship with a local fucktard.org. make-your-own sponsor, why not.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853536 << sounds pretty good.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 05:00 trinque: genesis will be the frozen-in-time found item, and from there I'll be looking forward to patches to add ave1 gcc (and later ave1-reproducible-build-gcc), other improvements.

deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=26 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/17/2018

deedbot: http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-no-more-usrincludex86_64-linux-gnu/ << ave1 - Building GNAT on MUSL, no more /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu

asciilifeform: ave1: pretty neat. curious, didja grep the whole thing for hardwired paths ?

asciilifeform: ideally in the end there will be none.

asciilifeform: !Q later tell BingoBoingo crate seems to be in customs limbo still

lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

diana_coman: hm, a first tiny pilot test of the UDP send/receive looks quite dire (4 in 20 made it, when sent in batches of 4, random lengths); however, I don't know if it's not just overflowing the out buffer to start with (since default value in /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_default is 212992 so real would be half that iirc)

asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc max packet that linux will actually send, is 65507 byte

diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, but if one sends a burst of 4 packets , they can overflow that buffer and get dropped, don't they?

asciilifeform: afaik not if you're using blocking send ( and my routine, does )

diana_coman: hm, you mean it's guaranteed that the package is sent and out of the buffer before you can call send again ?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: unless i misread the docs -- yes

asciilifeform: diana_coman: what was your random size range ?

diana_coman: 1-65535

asciilifeform: according to the man pg, sento() block unless one were to set MSG_DONTWAIT ( and we didn't )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: the other thing, entirely possible that yours got fragged and never unfragged, this'll be path-dependent ( as discussed in orig thread )

diana_coman: well, technically speaking 6-65535; specifically: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/b2MqA/?raw=true

asciilifeform: ( i long suspected that nothing far over 512, will reliably go )

diana_coman: yes, I'm trying to figure out mainly if I can at least make sure that it IS sent out of sender; then it can ofc get dropped anywhere on the route

asciilifeform: diana_coman: tcpdump -i eth0 udp port YOURPORT -vv -X

diana_coman: yes, will do

asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you have a list of the ones that reached the other end ?

asciilifeform: the other simple experiment, re fragging, is to set up the receiver on local host, and then on same-lan box

diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1DmdC/?raw=true (IP edited out; you can easily match them by sizesent+timeSent

diana_coman: basically one of each batch except one batch that was fully lost

asciilifeform: interesting

asciilifeform: see if looks similar when both ends on same box.

diana_coman: anyways, this is just tiny pilot, not yet worth much analysis as such

asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's consistent with what i know of the braindamaged frag reassembly mechanism on most iron

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i.e. there's a tiny reassembly buffer, and if it is occupied while new frags fall in, it drops

asciilifeform: ~nobody, afaik, actually queues all udp frags, it is impractical in light of ddosism

diana_coman: that would certainly fit this observed mess, yes

asciilifeform: so far is exactly what i expected to see, aha

asciilifeform: ( pleasant surprises are few and far between in the internet-of-shit )

diana_coman: anyway, the above examples show also current logs on both sides - if anyone has feedback on it/wants to see something else logged, talk now

asciilifeform: diana_coman: try the local variant. but i expect even across 1 router hop you will see similar picture.

asciilifeform brb,teatime

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> !Q later tell BingoBoingo crate seems to be in customs limbo still << I don't expect the locals did anything at all Saturday/Sunday. No phone calls have been recieved yet. We still have more waiting time before panic time.

lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: Sent 35 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> crate seems to be in customs limbo still

ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853545, I had seen the path in the specs (gcc -dumspecs) so I knew I had to look in the gcc/config directory. Next was the i386 dir (used for everything intel > i386) next simple grep for "isystem" (I worried that the path would be constructed from parts and so would never be found).

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 13:37 asciilifeform: ave1: pretty neat. curious, didja grep the whole thing for hardwired paths ?

asciilifeform: back

asciilifeform: ave1: i was speaking generally, 'are there other hardwired pathisms in there'

asciilifeform: diana_coman: https://archive.is/k6Wxb << udpism likbez ( may or may not contain anyffing new to you, but posting for the l0gz/n00bz )

asciilifeform: the 1 possibly noteworthy bit, is that fragging can take place anywhere in the route, while reassembly -- only at final receiver .

asciilifeform: ( can skip straight to section 'IP Fragmentation' )

asciilifeform: the other item of interest, not mentioned, is that quite a few infrastructural routers will simply drop frags, for the reason that all but 1 frag of a fragged packet contain no copy of the source or destination port -- and thereby impossible to ddos-filter. so they drop'em.

asciilifeform: ( this braindamaged design decision goes, as one might expect, back to the olden days when homo redditus was not yet on the net and 'arpa' designed for nukefest-related problems, not against 'ddos' )

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ijjM3 << even moar pedantic detail re fraggism. ( can safely skip the ipv6-related crapola )

asciilifeform: in particular, 'Lost fragments represent a slightly more involved problem than lost packets. The receiver has a packet reassembly timer upon the receipt of the first fragment, and will continue to hold this reassembly state for the reassembly time. The reassembly timer is a factor in the maximal count of packets in flight, as the packet identifier cannot be recycled within the period defined by the sender-received path delay, plus th

asciilifeform: e receiver’s reassembly timer. For higher delay high capacity network paths, this limit of 65,535 packets in flight can be a potential performance bottleneck [RFC 4963].'

asciilifeform: diana_coman: traceroute --mtu destinationip will show the mtu of the 1st 'fraggable' node in the path

asciilifeform: ( i got 1500 , and at own router )

mod6: mornin'

asciilifeform: guten morgen mod6

mod6: o7

mod6: trinque: Thanks for reporting.

asciilifeform: mod6: i was thinking of trinque's idea : suppose trb closed all open pipes if it finds that $configurable hours (e.g. 3) have passed without new blox

asciilifeform: mod6: my main hesitation re the item is that it may be 'plugging wrong end of funnel', quite possibly no such gymnastics would be necessary if we simply had a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1853143 and always --addnode'd the actually useful nodes, rather than relying on pure chance

a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 20:59 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1853137 << this reminds me of an item i had on chalkboard but never had a chance to actually bake -- a running log of where/when (ip, remote ver, time) noad got each incoming candidate block .

asciilifeform: mod6: right nao, our address-getting mechanism is the ancient turdalicious one inherited from shitoshi -- where the table is blindly filled with whatever connected folx decide to throw in

asciilifeform: this presently consists 90+% of boxen that get immediately (or rather, not quite immediately.. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1853265 ) malleus'd

asciilifeform: imho a trb node ought to only advertise addrs that either a) part of the manual --addnode set the node was brought up with , or b) actually supplied a correct block in the recent past

asciilifeform: this will make for something like sane peer propagation, which presently we dun have.

asciilifeform: i suspect that it would lubricate both block rx and tx broadcast.

asciilifeform: arguably 1st step to properly de-sibyl-ing the network.

mod6 thinks

asciilifeform: sanely-behaving nodes (both trb and hypothetical trb-compatible heathens, which exist, or we'd see 0 blox) ought to be able to find ~and keep~ each other company

asciilifeform: whatever machine cycles ~remain~ after this, can service randos.

asciilifeform: ( nao, ideally all of the sane people would actually know one another and wot, and link their nodes via ciphered pipes, all the way to miner. but i dun expect to live to see this. )

mod6: Yeah, this might be a proper step forward to de-sibyling the thing. And as long as we can still service randos, even if in second place.

mod6: I'm gonna think on it a bit.

asciilifeform: i'd be interested to see what mircea_popescu makes of this algo. because i can see a possible fatal downside.

asciilifeform: ( potentially such network may favour 'old' miner over 'new' )

asciilifeform: or, rather, slightly increases the 'inertia'

asciilifeform: gedankenexperiment : let's suppose that all new blox presently are born in nodes A, B, C. from there, propagate to rest of planet. the immediate peers of A, B, C, will have them parked at the very top of their peer table, right below the manually-added 'meat' peers. now say a D shows up. D may have faster hash rate even than A+B+C, but his blox will still be considered only ~after~ those of A,B,C. at least, for a time.

asciilifeform: thereby any peer ranking algo that favours 'useful' peers, will give A,B,C a substantial advantage over any new D.

asciilifeform: and not merely because A,B,C reliably supply correct blox, but they also will have most reliable tx-eating. so they will get sent all new tx in preference to D.

asciilifeform: this is a potentially dangerous arse-mouth system.

asciilifeform: but on the other hand, the current system makes for pestilential sibylism.

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853594 -> same here, 1500 at own router

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 15:11 asciilifeform: diana_coman: traceroute --mtu destinationip will show the mtu of the 1st 'fraggable' node in the path

asciilifeform: oh hey

Mocky: asciilifeform, is there a way to quantify "for a time"? Because requiring a 'tour of duty' dun necessarily seem like a bad thing. Is showing up with faster hash rate and getting full advantage on day one something to optimize for? (or day N, which is why I wonder how to quantify)

asciilifeform: Mocky: the boojum is that mining in classical btc worx in such a way as to amplify small advantages into gigantic

asciilifeform: Mocky: recall the chains of empty/near-empty blox the chinese sometimes emit

Mocky: ahh, yes I've seen but didn't know who emits

asciilifeform: 'who' is a misconceived, somewhat, q, cockroaches dun have faces

asciilifeform: but in general blox come from asiclandia.

Mocky: I presumed as much

asciilifeform: Mocky: the current algo optimizes for nuffin at all. but the puzzler is, if we were to optimize for ~something~, could it create a problem. esp if the algo worx as i predict, and the nodes using it, end up forming an optimally short link to the miners.

asciilifeform: potentially could sharpen an already dire 'ecological' problem.

asciilifeform: !#s miner cartel

a111: 34 results for "miner cartel", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=miner%20cartel

asciilifeform: ^ see also.

Mocky: seems like no node operator benefits individually from a non-optimal link to miners.

asciilifeform: superficially correct.

asciilifeform: but end result may end up being a net where even moar 'winner take all' than presently.

Mocky: but yes I see the knock on effects are not the same as superficial effects

asciilifeform: the fundamental problem is that the conditions favouring miner cartels are already baked into btc per se.

asciilifeform: and theoretically if the cartel births '9000' new sybils, it will force the use of something like my algo, whether anyone wants to or not, the layer of sibylade would become undrillable in its absence . but this is admittedly a stretch.

asciilifeform: then again we may already be in the midst of just such a thing, there's, what, ~20k distinct nodes operating, and overwhelming majority of these, are simply rubbish

asciilifeform: !#s thermodynamics proposes kinetics disposes

a111: 6 results for "thermodynamics proposes kinetics disposes", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thermodynamics%20proposes%20kinetics%20disposes

asciilifeform: ( classical btc 'thermodynamics', predispose to cartel. but 'kinetics' of ~randomsoup (vs 'intelligent' routing) make this less apparent. )

deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/09/discontent-in-zambia-over-chinese-investment/ << Qntra - Discontent In Zambia Over Chinese Investment

asciilifeform: '"I am not happy with the dominance of Chinese contractors. In the first place, the money that they get from these contracts is externalised and all that they return here are meagre wages," said Edgar Syakachoma, himself a contractor. "Let the government also give us the contracts so that they benefit Zambians."' << hey, recall mircea_popescu's piece with the argentine anti-bus protesters

asciilifeform: 'oh noez, bus could take moneybags to some OTHER street'

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851949 << see also.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 18:17 mircea_popescu: what i meant by "mercantilism" is that they do not want the locals to leak dollars back into the ubers of the world.

BingoBoingo: Which, well... by all apearances Uruguay leaks a substantial amount into Uber. Recently "Uber Eats" bicicletas have appeared in numbers that almost rival the Pedidos Ya bicicletas and motorcycles.

BingoBoingo: A third delivery service Rappi (Argentine like Pedidos Ya) arrived aroudn the time Uber Eats did and seems to be holding last place in that niche

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as i understand, orcistani rulers are perfectly free to stop out-inflating the usd, and then can quit worrying re 'leaking hard currency' any time they want

asciilifeform: ( i dun think, e.g., lichtenstein, worries re 'leaking dollars' )

BingoBoingo: I try explaining this to the locals when they reminisce about the 2005-2015 good old days

BingoBoingo: "BCU targeting a 7% inflation rate just might be why you are all being frog boiled into increasingly deeper poverty"

BingoBoingo: But hey, everything is great and peachy for them because Starbucks is getting joined by H&M on October 6th

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've found that it is normally impossible to explain any such thing to folx who operate in 'pig logic', i.e. 'would there be moar? or less?, slop in my trough?'

asciilifeform: cuz the answer is nearly always 'not only less slop, but butcher shop' and conversation stops there.

asciilifeform: as i understand, this is how mircea_popescu ended up setting bozo bit on argentines. 100% pig-os.

BingoBoingo: Well, the Argentines also didn't acknowledge their poverty

asciilifeform: 'samba si, trabajo no'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: eh they 'acknowledge', in the sense of 'obummer did it'

mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853622 << perhaps.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 15:55 asciilifeform: this is a potentially dangerous arse-mouth system.

BingoBoingo: Oh, they'll flat out say Uruguay is a poor country

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've yet to meet the orc who did not say 'mine is a poor country.' after all, so far from miami.

asciilifeform: that mecca, from which in orc cosmography all wealth somehow flows.

asciilifeform: relatedly, phunphakt, all of asciilifeform's packets to/from BingoBoingostan, relay through 4.68.72.61 : nsa station in miami.

BingoBoingo: Uruguay has a petite Miami light about 90 km east of Montevideo every summer. The police there even catch the street sleepers for redistribution to other parts of the country.

BingoBoingo: There's even advertisements on the streets for events at "World Trade Center - Punta del Este"

asciilifeform: lol!

asciilifeform: what sorta 'events' ?

BingoBoingo: International marketing, networking, and the usual bread and butter. There's an advertisement station in front of the closed zoo that they seem to favor.

asciilifeform: mighty lotta cheek, for folx who torment a 300 $ crate in tariff hell, to prattle about 'international marketing'

BingoBoingo: They also have ads in the other Uruguay WTC tower lobbies advertise "Work in the best place to live"

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mighty lotta cheek, for folx who torment a 300 $ crate in tariff hell, to prattle about 'international marketing' << They don't want buying. See they only want to do the SELLING part.

asciilifeform: selling what, exactly. ( daughters ? )

BingoBoingo: Beef, breeding cattle, soybeans, hotel nights for Punta del Este´s visually impressive jellyfish beach

BingoBoingo: And yes daughters

asciilifeform: even per this 'logic', seems like there's a loose end -- so, ok, they sell, SELL, only. bags of benjies -- go in. ~then~ wat.

BingoBoingo: Frente Amplio burns the benjies while inflating the peso and everyone frog boils into poverty.

asciilifeform: i guess disney had one possible answer re the 'wat', http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lja7aorWsU1qze0z6o1_1280.jpg

asciilifeform: benjies only work because they eventually return to 'miami', sorta like yer mains socket only worx because current able to go in the neutral pin

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853526 << illustrating the problem here : if man has a moron daugther but does not say "oh, i have a moron daugther", he is in obvious danger of "and she made me a moron too".

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 04:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853486 << twist : turns out linus has 'intersectional-feminist'(tm) daughter, who helped to break him

asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu

mircea_popescu: hola!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i had nfi linus even had daughter. then apparently find, he does, and she's 'pavlik morozov'

asciilifeform: !#s morozov

a111: 12 results for "morozov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=morozov

mircea_popescu: which is what i mean. "oh, my fambly business is my own" "sure, it is. until it suddenly isn't."

mircea_popescu: this'd be the counterpoint to "omfg, mp will publish anything". sure, he will. "it's exaggerate!". sure, it is.

mircea_popescu: if you don't control your women, you're stuck making public laughingstocks of them. there's no "third way".

mircea_popescu: and the punishment for "what if i don't" is... "they will".

asciilifeform: ( for folx who aint sov-entomologists : pavlik morozov was a kid who turned in own father to dekulakizers. for this, grandfather beheaded him with axe. and kid was made into an Official 'hero' )

mircea_popescu: can't help but like the soviet peons more than the usgistani zeks.

asciilifeform: as for the 'code of conduct' liquishit, apparently thing is written by some purpose-built pantsuit org in berlin, and standardized, and right after l. signing the instrument of surrender, the purges kicked off

mircea_popescu: what "purges" ? who the fuck would stay on with shitux.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, most of what thing consisted of, was massive gaggle of iron maker sponsored driver-makin' folx

mircea_popescu: "driver"

asciilifeform: most of'em prolly not even smelled the smoke yet

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g. the chinese rk people

mircea_popescu: hey, linux ~already useless for any practical purpose. you know i have a trashed hp envy sitting here because trhere's no way to run the wireless on it ?

mircea_popescu: "aethershit".

mircea_popescu: wtf, wired laptop, what sense does that make.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's some % who actually endrivered various new iron. e.g. dulap kernel built for arm64 won't actually boot on rk, needs the little bit of chinesium ( i have it laid out, fwiw , mostly, specifically for when we pour cement )

mircea_popescu: but the point remains -- they're still ~useless (or amstan-useful, if you prefer). literally better of without 'em.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the sad-802.11 thing is endemic ( recall asciilifeform's recipe of how to terraform ibm x60 . step 1 is to pull out the wireless nic and stuff in ye olde atheros )

mircea_popescu: eh im not fucking doing soldering jobs for a fucking laptop.

asciilifeform: 0 soldering, thing had a lid

mircea_popescu: a pity, too, it's light and nice monitor.

asciilifeform: this was in the not-soldered dayz

mircea_popescu: ah

mircea_popescu: yes well.

asciilifeform: it's a pre-obummer box.

trinque: yeh most of these are separate mpcie card, though the point remains

trinque: can in theory replace with a known workable card

asciilifeform: trinque: on various newer irons, soldered (e.g. almost all 'chromebook')

mircea_popescu: ah, and i bought a dongle for it ? the linux driver "requires" gcc 4.9

trinque: asciilifeform: oh, sad indeed

mircea_popescu: i'm NOT debugging make error soup, either.

mircea_popescu: (not to even mention they ship a fucking cd with the dongle, the fucktards, on which there's autorun and windows bs. the linux stuff -- get from our website. ON A CONNECTIVITY DEVICE. then they wanna talk about "code of conduct" ? HOW THE FUCK ABOUT NOT.)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun think i ever got even as far as this, with a radio nic made post-'08; yer ahead of me

mircea_popescu: im trashing the whole worksheet, unless you want something from it.

mircea_popescu: wasted a slave half-day chasing the nonsense blergh.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what nic was this even

mircea_popescu: aite, ima fetch teh details.

asciilifeform: ( at least even if only to put in 'this -- pig shit' file )

mircea_popescu: model TL-WN823N(EU) v3.0

asciilifeform: oh almost forgot, another phunphakt, in orig torvalds surrender papers, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850713 : winblowz uniturd quotes .

a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 08:05 ave1: In other news, some lulzy drama underway in the Linux kernel camp; https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CA+55aFy+Hv9O5citAawS+mVZO+ywCKd9NQ2wxUmGsz9ZJzqgJQ@mail.gmail.com/

asciilifeform: e.g. 0xE2 0x80 0x9C

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: notoriously broken nic

asciilifeform: it dun even switch on w/out a large fw turd, which i'm guessing mircea_popescu did not have

asciilifeform: pretty much as sad as intel's

mircea_popescu: got any recommendations ?

asciilifeform: atheros

asciilifeform: realtek also worx, though not nearly as reliably

asciilifeform: e.g. RTL8187L, can be had in usb-boxes like alfa's AWUS036H ( ~20bux in ameristan )

mircea_popescu: cool.

mircea_popescu: lmao windows quotes, that's classy.

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/m4SR9 << ameristani vendor, but prolly gettable in bananistan, as 'ships from china!' anyway

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853710 << can laugh if you like, but asciilifeform uses room fulla lappies, and most of'em never leave the copper lan

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 18:54 mircea_popescu: wtf, wired laptop, what sense does that make.

mircea_popescu: yeah well... i would never. why not get a desktop, cheaper parts, better heat.

asciilifeform: space, and heat.

asciilifeform: ( i dun imagine either is problem in castle mircea_popescustein )

mircea_popescu: apparently not.

asciilifeform: asciilifeform's dwelling makes nazi uboat look spacious like stadium

mircea_popescu: oh, is this part and parcel of all the "luxuries keep me bolted down in usgistan that i could never have anywhere else" line ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853724 << incidentally ave1's cemented gnat is a 4.9

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 18:57 mircea_popescu: ah, and i bought a dongle for it ? the linux driver "requires" gcc 4.9

mircea_popescu: like, hard vacuum to pump you quite as neatly in sardine can not available anywhere else ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the other end of that stick, the unspeakable salt mine crud that keeps asciilifeform's lights on

mircea_popescu: yes well, mine's a 4.4.3 ; perhaps one day it'll be ave1 's, but that day is not today and so tough luck to the shitcard.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't fathom why kernelism would want a 4.9 specifically

asciilifeform: ( or, rather, can... but who wants )

mircea_popescu: me either, but as i said, makepile errors out and im not debugging this

asciilifeform: dun bother

asciilifeform: there's ~0 to be gained from nursing sad iron, life is too short

mircea_popescu: i sometimes do it as learnpunishment for girls. but ample iron to punish with viz few girls need punished.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whoknows, one day you find out that one of'em ported it

asciilifeform: ( like that legend with prof who left unsolved problem as 'homework' on board, came back to find it solved )

mircea_popescu: heh

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853549 << ouch. they made networking great again meanwhile also ?!

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 13:50 diana_coman: hm, a first tiny pilot test of the UDP send/receive looks quite dire (4 in 20 made it, when sent in batches of 4, random lengths); however, I don't know if it's not just overflowing the out buffer to start with (since default value in /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_default is 212992 so real would be half that iirc)

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853560 << ah, this is what it was huh

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 13:56 asciilifeform: ( i long suspected that nothing far over 512, will reliably go )

mircea_popescu: diana_coman it occurs to me the work might also be misspecced. anyone have serious objections to moving to 1-2048 down from 1-65536 ?

mircea_popescu: i really didn't think it through, wtf is this 28355, 52181, 2600, 7269, 16286, 47627, 36352, 53247, 24192, 63568 bullshit, no one with any sort of networking experience would expect this to go.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol i did say. back in the gossipd thread.

asciilifeform: fragging is massive loss.

mircea_popescu: yeah. unless anyone throws in a good reason we're dropping the far range, this is nonsense.

asciilifeform: i did have a tiny shred of 'hm maybe modern gear reassembles', but it was just that, a lark

asciilifeform: the real q is , just how far above 512, and below 1500, can go

mircea_popescu: just about. 2048 amply distant outer bound.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: out of curiosity, wouldja be willing to traceroute --mtu 161.0.121.200 and say what mtu you got

asciilifeform: (e.g. mine : F=1500 )

mircea_popescu: asec

asciilifeform: that there -- is the bottleneck

asciilifeform: i.e. where they start getting fragalicious

mircea_popescu: F=1500 here too.

asciilifeform: a ty mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: ( anybody else get different number ?? mod6 ? trinque ? et al )

asciilifeform: this # btw includes packet headers. ergo max payload , will be slightly smaller

asciilifeform: note that fragging takes place exactly 1ce, as only final destination ever unfrags. and in my case it happens right where my iron meets isp's fibertron.

trinque: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jrs5Q/?raw=true << got this, dun see a "F="

asciilifeform: trinque: i just noticed this, on dulap also, apparently some recent year's shitgnomism in gentoo mutilated traceroute

asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw i was able to measure mtu ~from~ dulap, using USE="tracepath" emerge iptools and tracepath -4 asciilifeformshouse

asciilifeform: ( result : 1500 )

asciilifeform: loox like even this basic util, will have to go in cuntoo from asciilifeform's ( or trinque's ) vintage tarballs museum, rather than from 'current'

asciilifeform: ( what did shitgnome have against mtu measurer , gotta wonder )

mircea_popescu: trinque my servers do the ~same

asciilifeform: i suspect -- similarly afflicted

mircea_popescu: 2.0.13 vs 2.0.14 problem

mircea_popescu: ie 2009 vs 2010

asciilifeform: in my set : 'version 2.0.19, Jun 28 2013' << happy ; 'version 2.0.20, Sep 24 2018' << saad

mircea_popescu: maybe it's only even versions work

asciilifeform: same , supposedly, author, one Dmitry Butskoy

mircea_popescu: odd*

asciilifeform: if somebody can be arsed to find who/what/when/why, could be interesting

asciilifeform: but prolly not worth the cycles

asciilifeform: at any rate, 1500 appears to be the ceiling.

mircea_popescu always used tracepath, nfi.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if yer using a linux that 'came with things', it's likely to have both

mircea_popescu: and it says pmtu 1500 on a half dozen servers i looked, si

asciilifeform: aha not surprise

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually traceroute i had to install.

asciilifeform: ha

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> F=1500 here too. << Here as well

mircea_popescu: (i really like tracepath much better tbh.)

asciilifeform: metoo

asciilifeform: fwiw ethernet mtu is 1500

asciilifeform: so not mega-surprise

asciilifeform: anyffing above, guaranteed frag

asciilifeform: what i'm curious about, is how far below also frag.

mircea_popescu: is the take home from here that 1500, rather than 2048, should be the outer bound ?

asciilifeform: ( ~inside~ some lands you can get 'jumbogram', up to coupla kB, but this is not really interesting from our pov imho )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha yer likely to get same result with 2048 as with 20000

mircea_popescu: yeah. good point.

mircea_popescu: but the ideais, ARE we interested in a sliver of data re that ?

asciilifeform: well yes : conceivably 'frags in 2' worx ~100% of time, but 'in 8' not etc

mircea_popescu: yeah.

mircea_popescu: well, this has been a productive discussion, hasn't it.

asciilifeform: ( i predict that any frag at all will give loss that cancels out the win from using heavy packets. but nobody should take my word for it, test, test )

asciilifeform: btw , esp for diana_coman , e.g. 1000 byte payload will be a 1028 byte total mass. (header)

asciilifeform: iirc.

asciilifeform: ergo payload of 1472 corresponds to mass of 1500.

mircea_popescu: aha.

asciilifeform: nao, according to the talmud, max guara-nonfrag udp is 508. but this , this oughta be seen.

asciilifeform: ( 508 payload, that is )

asciilifeform: given as i do not know a reason why it oughta be as low as 508 when going from ip stack mtu would be 1472.

mircea_popescu: i expect we'll have a nice pile of data this week.

asciilifeform: conceivably , on some really sad gsm modem somewhere, or the like, it will be 508.

asciilifeform: yea as i understand diana_coman already has the knobs, can turn'em when she wakes up

mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1DmdC/?raw=true << fucking inconceivable 20kb udp made it through.

asciilifeform: 1 per burst ( see thrd )

mircea_popescu: aha. im seeing.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-26#1386298 << speaking of which : 124 gram duckling recognizes the cork of a bottle of guatemalan rum with a hair tie around it as DOOM ON FUCKING WHEELS.

a111: Logged on 2016-01-26 17:20 ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)

mircea_popescu: nearly fell over itself sideways trying to GET THE FUCK OUT OMFG OMFG

mircea_popescu: who knows what ancestral terror snake it thinks it is. because pixels, right ?

BingoBoingo: Imma suspect some sort of turtle

mircea_popescu: turtles eat ducks ?!

BingoBoingo: All the time. Snapping turtles love ducklings

BingoBoingo: It's like those nature documentary nile river crossing scenes with the crocs in miniature

mircea_popescu: really ?!

mircea_popescu: interesting.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853590 << quite. what a nuke the "empowerment"'s turned out to be.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 14:58 asciilifeform: ( this braindamaged design decision goes, as one might expect, back to the olden days when homo redditus was not yet on the net and 'arpa' designed for nukefest-related problems, not against 'ddos' )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha.. the amazing thing isn't that 'x,y,z are broken' but that any part still worx..

asciilifeform: ( and i indeed suspect that no pentagon ww3 planner planned for anyffing like the current level of breakage, at that )

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853601 << this seems so to me. how about we wot the trb, rather than iptables it.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 15:25 asciilifeform: mod6: my main hesitation re the item is that it may be 'plugging wrong end of funnel', quite possibly no such gymnastics would be necessary if we simply had a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1853143 and always --addnode'd the actually useful nodes, rather than relying on pure chance

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see thread...

mircea_popescu: iirc we had a spec discussion re how to populate nodes.

mircea_popescu: but yes, this is the other half -- need to bake trb nodes that won't get insta-banned by wot-trb on sight because they spew garbage

asciilifeform: ( $thread was specifically re puzzler of how -- and if -- to sort nodes ~not~ known to be operated by wot'd humans. rather than ' asciilifeform's wires ' and related experiment )

mircea_popescu: no, recall, was an economic solution, "if node doesn't pay its way it's kicked"

asciilifeform: right, this'd be immediately practical if the net consisted of wot'd folx an' their boxen

mircea_popescu: the idea there was to drive compliance.

mircea_popescu: but in order for it to work -- yes very much need nodes that don't misbehave.

asciilifeform: ( but as it is, we also have a wild animal, in the mix, called miner, and its immediate ecosystem )

asciilifeform: aha

mircea_popescu: let me try an' fish it out

asciilifeform: iirc was one of the moar recent 'trb-i' mircea_popescu threads

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+trb-i << interesting list, at that.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619483 << one item, somewhat related, not the item sought though. (this is to tightnen miner-node paths)

a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 22:07 mircea_popescu: now, the historical solutionb to the problem, as well as perhaps a workable solution here, is the intrinsic oracle. if user relays txn to a node WHO MAKES A PROMISE (such as for instance "the txn will be included before block n" ?) then the nodes can be scored by their oracle value ("what he said turned out true!) and suddenly you have a more meaningful node market.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-01#1220066 / http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-01#1220067 << possiblty this entire thread was exactly it.

a111: Logged on 2015-08-01 00:30 mircea_popescu: (original design was to simply shutter all connecting peers that fail to provide good $$$ txn, in some sort of %)

a111: Logged on 2015-08-01 00:30 asciilifeform: thing is, this'll result in a very random selection at present

mircea_popescu: infuriatingly enough, i can't find it now. but the discussion was exactly along the same lines, "add user-configurable penalty for communicating shitblocks (any block that isn't the one you were looking for) and any other misbehaviour ; and used-configurable bonus for communicating useful things ; then user-configurable knob for lowest-tolerable-score and ban peers who fall under"

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-31#999477 << early version of the idea.

a111: Logged on 2015-01-31 03:13 mircea_popescu: something simple like, "whenever a parentless block is handed over the retaining of which would cause memory pool for holding parentless blocks to be overrun, a) drop the handed block ; b) close the connection and ban that peer for half hour ; c) discard all chains of parentless blocks longer than six items ; d) connect again"

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595770 << alluded to in the more specified TRB.B/TRB.N prototype design.

a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 20:33 mircea_popescu: otherwise it is discarded. B.T may be pruned (according to arbitrary address list, for instance). Rate limiting in TRB.N may be constructed to observe N.B items that fail to propagate to B.B and ban the originating peers.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-31#1148935 << FUUCK, found! this is what i was looking for, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-31#1148937 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-31#1148938

a111: Logged on 2015-05-31 12:11 mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes.

a111: Logged on 2015-05-31 12:11 mircea_popescu: with a time decay, with a penalty for sending bad blocks and a positive for sending good blocks at a good speed.

a111: Logged on 2015-05-31 12:12 mircea_popescu: say something like : every bad block received, -10 points. every minute where connection is kept at 80% of its allocated bw or over, 1 point. every hour score decays 1% towards 0, be it either positive or negative.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853635 << the universal problem with "progress" in a functional world -- it manages to turn to shit.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 16:07 asciilifeform: potentially could sharpen an already dire 'ecological' problem.

deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2578 << Loper OS - Linux. (1991 2018)

asciilifeform: speeaaking of which.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853649 << entirely usg's desperation. they're losing preminence/getting locked out of markets at a shocking rate for a "world power" not defeated in war.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 16:42 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/09/discontent-in-zambia-over-chinese-investment/ << Qntra - Discontent In Zambia Over Chinese Investment

mircea_popescu: but hey, "opted" to not have wot presence, just desserts.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i take it you dun suppose the miners thing , upthread, will be serious boojum ? ( or should i wait for mircea_popescu to eat log )

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853669 << huge difference, >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753439 ; http://trilema.com/2015/latino-perspectives/#selection-137.0-137.45 etc

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 17:00 BingoBoingo: Oh, they'll flat out say Uruguay is a poor country

a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 16:07 BingoBoingo: Argentina's slogan is the lie "Argentina no es un pais pobre", Montevideo's is the truth "Montevideo es muy tranquilo"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suppose it is a serious bojum that is in no way resolved by smearing shit over eyes.

asciilifeform: rright, i observed that the situation could be forced into being very inexpensively, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853644

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 16:15 asciilifeform: and theoretically if the cartel births '9000' new sybils, it will force the use of something like my algo, whether anyone wants to or not, the layer of sibylade would become undrillable in its absence . but this is admittedly a stretch.

asciilifeform: i.e. may as well gather the win to be had from firing the first rockets.

mircea_popescu: it's just....

mircea_popescu: it's just not how it works, "nobody could have seen through shitsoup!!!". really ?

asciilifeform: whether shitoshi could or not see past own bellybutton, can be debated 4evah

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853672 << doh.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 17:02 asciilifeform: relatedly, phunphakt, all of asciilifeform's packets to/from BingoBoingostan, relay through 4.68.72.61 : nsa station in miami.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853677 << = >> http://trilema.com/2012/all-politics-is-local-politics/

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 17:07 BingoBoingo: International marketing, networking, and the usual bread and butter. There's an advertisement station in front of the closed zoo that they seem to favor.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853678 << it's just the cunt signal, "what to do instead of whoring if you're a hottie teenager"

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 17:08 asciilifeform: mighty lotta cheek, for folx who torment a 300 $ crate in tariff hell, to prattle about 'international marketing'

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853684 << just because mercantilism got killed in the 1600s dun mean the sort of brains that naturally spawn mercantilism as a state-of-the-art mentality stopped being poopped.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 17:13 asciilifeform: even per this 'logic', seems like there's a loose end -- so, ok, they sell, SELL, only. bags of benjies -- go in. ~then~ wat.

mircea_popescu: much like just because we have penicillin dun mean tb gave up and left the planet.

asciilifeform: aaha.. thinking folx, sometimes give up; vermin -- never

asciilifeform: 'stupidity has infinite health' or how did mircea_popescu's old piece formulate it.

deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=27 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/18/2018

asciilifeform: trinque, mircea_popescu , et al : asciilifeform, in light of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2578 etc , has been thinking of genesising the kernel. prolly not tonight or tomorrow, but in near fyootoor. if anyone has particular desires ( & optionally, justification ) for particular ver becoming The Last and cemented, would like to hear about it.

asciilifeform: likewise it is time for folx to go over their iron and nominate driverolade that they believe ought to live.

asciilifeform: or at least, to start.

asciilifeform: ( see also '...Я тебя не трону, а в душе зарою / И прикажу залить цементом, чтобы не разрыть.'(tm)(r)( vysotsky, https://archive.is/LXXw8 ) )

asciilifeform: ( oblig shitty engl. trans, http://samlib.ru/a/as_w/vys-chr-ru-e.shtml )

trinque: the kernel in current cuntoo is 4.9.95, by virtue solely of being when I took the snapshot

asciilifeform: 4.9.76 on dulap, and slightly earlier iirc in rk branch ( will have to maintain at least these 2 forks , i suspect )

asciilifeform: i currently dun have a strong opinion re which 4.x is cementable

asciilifeform: i wouldn't even object to cementing a 3.x, supposing i had a working one for rk

asciilifeform: ( i have a buncha pc boxen running 3.x and entirely satisfied with'em )

asciilifeform: but would like to hear from the l1 folx re subj before mixing the cement.

trinque: asciilifeform: what's the word on this "speculative execution" thing? dun matter?

asciilifeform: trinque: imho dun matter worth a sparrow's fart

asciilifeform: i.e. isolation on x86 is illusory

trinque: aite, then that'd be the only thing coming to mind to prevent pulling an older vintage

asciilifeform: any attempt to repair it simply creates a nsa.nobus imho

trinque: certainly miles more attack surface

asciilifeform: ( + a reallly slow box.. )

asciilifeform: i'll consider backports of patches that fix e.g. 'magic packet of death', but not 'spectre' etc rubbish

asciilifeform: both now and in fyootoor

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 2.6.something ? or which are you thinking ?

asciilifeform: 3.x ~= 2.6

mircea_popescu: so what, like diseased newt ?

asciilifeform: hm?

mircea_popescu: just trying to tease out which version.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not being a debianist, i cannot immediately say which edition of it this'd correspond to

mircea_popescu: i mean which kernel version.

trinque: buzzing beedog

mircea_popescu: "diseased newt" = 3.18-rc3

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the oldest i have on currently serving box anywhere is 3.8.8

mircea_popescu: trinque i fucking grepped

trinque: lol

mircea_popescu: before noticing beedog!

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i use 2.6 ~everywhere.

asciilifeform: neato

mircea_popescu: trilema eg served from 2.5.32

mircea_popescu: 2.6.32*

asciilifeform: i suppose if you dun need post-'04 irons, worx great

mircea_popescu: i see eulora server was built in 4.14.7

mircea_popescu: ftr, cpu is 2006.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1st ed opteron ??

mircea_popescu: yeh

asciilifeform: neato

mircea_popescu: perfectly adequate for prod, by my lights.

mircea_popescu: in any case, served a lot of trilema over the years.

asciilifeform: sometimes -- 486 suffices...

BingoBoingo: And sometimes Z80

mircea_popescu: im altogether uncertain what one gains by replacing ~2005 iron with 2010-2020 iron, but anyway.

asciilifeform: ssd raid5.

asciilifeform: and gb nic. that's pretty much it.

mircea_popescu: pretty sure gb nic works on ye olde opterons just as fine. raids are iffy, depend on all sorta bs ; but definitely exist such thing as proper raid controller in 2005.

mircea_popescu: why ssd specifically ? raid is raid, can raid tape if you want.

asciilifeform: pcie bus bottleneck

mircea_popescu: incidentally, have you measured any of those gb nics you run, how often they actually gb ?

asciilifeform: i suppose oughta add, afaik nobody made in '06 box where i can 256GB ram

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes measured, mine do

mircea_popescu: i dunno doing what ; even something like the ssh census worked fine on 100mb interface.

mircea_popescu: certainly wholesale fetlife rape is still <1mbps.

mircea_popescu: but i suppose if you're running a camwhore site or something.

mircea_popescu: !!up verisimilitude

deedbot: verisimilitude voiced for 30 minutes.

verisimilitude: I appreciate it, mircea_popescu.

mircea_popescu upped for liking the name. who might you be, then ?

verisimilitude: I suppose it would be easy to introduce myself by linking to my website.

verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/

verisimilitude: I'll explain my big project as of now.

verisimilitude: For the past several years I'd had the idea of a machine code development tool in my mind and for over a year now I've been working to breathe life into it.

verisimilitude: I call this Meta-Machine Code (MMC) and the article detailing it in general is here:

verisimilitude: http://verisimilitudes.net/2017-07-07

verisimilitude: I stopped by to perhaps get your opinions or to see what you all are working on lately.

mircea_popescu: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-08-28.read << you wrote this ?

verisimilitude: Yes.

verisimilitude: I didn't write the game, but I did write that document.

asciilifeform looks...

verisimilitude: It has embedded ECMA-48 control sequences for color.

verisimilitude: I've been meaning to refine it and also have a version without color.

verisimilitude: I haven't done that yet, though.

asciilifeform: 'The Masturbation Language' loox like stock unmodded classical 'brainfuck'

asciilifeform: what's the diff ?

verisimilitude: It's homoiconic with the = function.

verisimilitude: It either copies the program into memory or the memory to be executed.

mircea_popescu: well, as to the specific question, this "mmc" item will require some looking.

asciilifeform: dare i to ask what is gained from this ?

mircea_popescu: how did you come across the forum anyway ?

verisimilitude: I wanted to make a derivative of P" and Brainfuck that was difficult to compile and also make a crude joke.

asciilifeform: lemme guess, was it via asciilifeform's www

verisimilitude: Yes; I know of here because of you, asciilifeform.

verisimilitude: I assume you're Stanislav.

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ever read the #trilema logs ? or just this minute found it

verisimilitude: That's just to make certain I don't start out confused.

verisimilitude: I've not read them in any detail; I take it I have it wrong, then.

verisimilitude: So, I should write I'm only familiar with this channel because of loper-os.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i highly recommend it, right now you're in approx the position of that random fella who sat down in a cargo plane and took off on a lark

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: http://btcbase.org/log/

mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/SjWP7 << amusingly, there's a very similar wankfest, missing the s.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: also highly recommend to make yourself a pgp key, and reg with deedbot,

asciilifeform: !!help

deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: then will be able to speak and come into perma-relation with other people.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol i have a bunch of photos just like that of timis orcs

verisimilitude: I'll consider it.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i have quite a few items in own notebook similar to yours, from decade+ ago. lemme guess, were you stuck on uninhabited island ?

asciilifeform: ... prison ?

verisimilitude: No; I'm just bored.

asciilifeform: 'The SHUT-IT-DOWN Common Lisp Library' << notbad name.

trinque: plenty of places similar to uninhabited island that one can find

asciilifeform: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-02-02 << are you familiar with...

asciilifeform: !#s mips.v

a111: 5 results for "mips.v", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mips.v

mircea_popescu: i seriously am going to have to drop 2.x kernels ? this is kinda scandalous.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspected the kernel thing will be uphill.

mircea_popescu: im willing to bet nothing worth the mention was added since 2.6 that can't be added in an improved format to great gain.

verisimilitude: I wasn't familiar with that, no, asciilifeform.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wouldn't be opposed to at least attempting to backport 3.x driverola to 2.6

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i'm not particularly excited by idea of losing rk

mircea_popescu: why would you have to lose rk ?

mircea_popescu: i don't want losing rk, wut.

asciilifeform: cuz it's 4.x with a pretty large ball of poorly delineated patchola

mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean...

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see, them little pogolike things, have entire constellation of entirely non-pclike subdevices

asciilifeform: pretty much whole i/o set

mircea_popescu: so ?

mircea_popescu: is your idea drivers won't link against 2 line kernel ?

asciilifeform: not as-they-are, no

mircea_popescu: you compiled these though ? or binball ?

asciilifeform: linus et al diddled the api repeatedly.

asciilifeform: compiled

asciilifeform: the only binball is that coupla kB of ddr ram init thing.

asciilifeform: it runs prior to uboot.

asciilifeform: there's another, larger one, if you want to use the hdmi display thing, but i dun use it anywhere

mircea_popescu: conceivably this might run ? ie, not running currently because never tried, not necessarily because impediments ?

asciilifeform: i'm quite certain that it can be made to.

asciilifeform: but currently do not know with how much fiddle.

mircea_popescu: mind giving it a seeing to ? it'll be a very useful heuristic, imo, "get rk drivers on 2.6 kernel"

mircea_popescu: sorta like a sonar blast to see under this iceberg peak.

asciilifeform: already begun to look into it.

asciilifeform: would be neato imho if we could bring 2.6 back to life trb-style.

asciilifeform: ( whoknows, maybe asciilifeform could regain his 64MB toshiba... )

asciilifeform: iirc phf has one too

asciilifeform: ( hey phf ! )

mircea_popescu: i would propose ~none of yhou use it for no serious reason, like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-24#1853922

a111: Logged on 2018-09-24 23:24 trinque: the kernel in current cuntoo is 4.9.95, by virtue solely of being when I took the snapshot

asciilifeform: pentium 166.

mircea_popescu: "i just happened to get dragged to 3.6 line along, dunno"

asciilifeform: typically folx dragged by irons.

mircea_popescu: but if this is not so, i'd much rather find out sooner than later.

mircea_popescu: no, typically folks dragged by the please-upgrade.php.rss

asciilifeform: cant speak for others, but not i.

mircea_popescu: the entire http://trilema.com/2011/nu-mai-faceti-upgrade-la-nimic-niciodata/ stance relatively late in everyone's mind, kernels earlier.

asciilifeform only ever built a +ver'd kernel when ran into a piece of i/o iron that could not be brought to life any other way

mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i'm quite certain that it can be made to. <

asciilifeform: well in principle anyffing 'can be made'

asciilifeform: q is with how many years inside pyramid.

mircea_popescu: aaanyways. this needs some looking into

asciilifeform: verily.

asciilifeform: http://verisimilitudes.net/2018-08-18 << nostalgic

asciilifeform: i suspect verisimilitude will enjoy the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1822445 thread.

a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 16:17 asciilifeform: here's a historical lul that mircea_popescu might find stimulating. asciilifeform ( and his brother, and a whole generation of folx ) grew up with a certain orc '100 bytes of ram, but hey it's fucking programmable' little box, http://www.alfredklomp.com/technology/mk-61 . and the Official b00k for it ( http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/G/GAYSHTUT_Aleksandr_Grigor'evich/_Gayshtut_A.G..html ) had various games (typically you had to draw on g

verisimilitude: I'll take a look.

verisimilitude: I have an MK-61, but no use for it.

asciilifeform: there is ru proverb, 'a spoon is good at dinner time'

asciilifeform: the time to have the mk61 was when you were 5, i suspect

asciilifeform: so, you won't be running emacs on it, no.

verisimilitude: I like my HP 48 series calculators more, yes.

asciilifeform: i got one of'em decadent western hp48 also, yes

asciilifeform: for roughly same purpose ( once in blue moon can pull it out and pretend the year is 1988 )

verisimilitude: I've noticed only one result in the logs for ``yeeloong''.

asciilifeform: !#s loongson

a111: 27 results for "loongson", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=loongson

asciilifeform: ^

asciilifeform: !#s rms laptop

a111: 8 results for "rms laptop", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rms%20laptop

verisimilitude: Alright.

verisimilitude: Anyway, I'm fortunate enough to own one of those.

asciilifeform: extinct, sadly, item, that thing

verisimilitude: I didn't even pay $400 for it.

asciilifeform: over the years i tried to locate one, somewhere, for some money, 0 dice

verisimilitude: I mostly use it as an OpenBSD Emacs machine.

asciilifeform: i ( and iirc mircea_popescu also once ) tried to buy 'elbrus' also, 0dice

asciilifeform: 'not for people'

asciilifeform: !!up verisimilitude

deedbot: verisimilitude voiced for 30 minutes.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you'll really want to reg with deedbot if yer interested in further doings.

verisimilitude: I suppose I can use the Yeeloong to generate a PGP key.

asciilifeform: do it with pdp11 if you like, but highly recommend to do it asap.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu rarely voices n00bs any moar these days.

verisimilitude: It's because I own this hardware that I intend for the first MMC targeting a ``real'' machine to target MIPS. I decided if I ever got one, I'd try to understand it well enough to run my own software directly on the bare metal and in the boot firmware.

verisimilitude: The boot firmware is awful, however.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've been looking into ( and if you read logs, will know this... ) baking a mips machine.

asciilifeform: from 0

verisimilitude: There's bits of GNU, Linux, OpenBSD, Solaris, K&R C, and other nonsense strewn about; there's Perl programs generating MIPS assembler; C programs that clearly invoke undefined behavior and so only work by chance; and other such things.

verisimilitude: That's interesting.

mircea_popescu: verisimilitude you might as well get one of the rks over in the republica oriental. arm boxes.

asciilifeform: in fact, quite likely i'ma bake it as soon as mircea_popescu blows the trumpet and decrees that it's time.

verisimilitude: ARM is certainly a better architecture than MIPS ever can be.

asciilifeform: i fucking hate arm, as an arch

mircea_popescu: well, in any case fitter for your prototyping needs as i can see them atm.

asciilifeform: ( as a cheap iron from chinesium, currently -- king )

mircea_popescu: moreover, a bit of a republican standard, so liable to get more attention.

asciilifeform: wartime standard.

verisimilitude: I'm rather fond of Big-Endian CISC machines, but those are all rather dead nowadays.

asciilifeform: really there is no fucking reason there needs to be more than 8 cpu instructions.

verisimilitude: If you have eight instructions, you're inevitably just going to have a large amount of meta-instructions all the same.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: verily, i tried with own hands to source a m68k for modern manufacture, and failed utterly

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: just as well.

asciilifeform: i want my 4000 transistor cpu and i'ma get it.

verisimilitude: Well, good luck to you.

asciilifeform: and they'll be optically visible, through window, no less.

mircea_popescu: and issue a paper slip per instruction, for hand-writeoff

asciilifeform: lol

mircea_popescu: IN TRIPLICATE

asciilifeform: bahahaha

verisimilitude: From my perspective, it would probably be easiest to collect several old home computers and make certain they produce identical results, to get reasonably reliable and trustworthy computing.

mircea_popescu: beedog will replicate the politburo-computer.

mircea_popescu: verisimilitude whole fucking republic consists of this.

mircea_popescu: heck, current trilema header is me with ye olde hp in istanbul.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-15#922644 << see also !111

a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 00:28 asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.

mircea_popescu: !#s thinkpad

a111: 97 results for "thinkpad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=thinkpad

verisimilitude: I'd wager I could fit an MMC targeting the 6502 in 64K with only minimal bank switching for larger programs.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i've an unbuilt 'btc wallet on 6502' item, for instance.

asciilifeform: socket sits either the current one from western inc. or period '80s unit.

verisimilitude: I take it ``unbuilt'' isn't code for ``broken''.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: no, means that you cannot buy it presently.

verisimilitude: Alright.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: y'know how in old arabian tales, fella gets audience with sultan ? gets little bit to speak his bit

asciilifeform: that's you right nao

asciilifeform: i recommend to reg key, won't repeat again.

verisimilitude: I'm generating it right now.

asciilifeform: good; i'ma rate you

verisimilitude: You must understand that I'm very lazy.

asciilifeform: i also lazy

asciilifeform: drop the pub in p.bvulpes.com and !!register url

verisimilitude: Alright.

verisimilitude: What brought you people to freenode, though?

verisimilitude: I'd expect those this concerned would host their own IRC.

verisimilitude: Freenode would really be fine with me, if it didn't block Tor.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: mircea_popescu , and he historically built 'cheap and angry' . quite likely will migrate off fleanode in not long.

asciilifeform: !#s tor

a111: 1157 results for "tor", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tor

asciilifeform: ^ will def. want to read, i suspect.

verisimilitude: Alright.

verisimilitude: Once I get this PGP nonsense sorted out, I'll tell you a story.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: once rated, you'll be able to speak on own time, and other folx will read in log when they wake.

asciilifeform: ( and sometimes answer. )

verisimilitude: Oh; I don't have PGP on the Yeeloong; oh well.

verisimilitude: Alright.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: make key, you will be able to swap it later by asking politely of trinque

asciilifeform: ( don't lose the key )

verisimilitude: I'll try, but I can't make any promises.

BingoBoingo: Think of it this way, how many years have you kept your kidneys without losing them?

verisimilitude: Well, it probably wouldn't be this long if I really had to give it that much thought.

asciilifeform: it is not so difficult to not lose a coupla kB

trinque: it's just that in-group signaling about "tee hee lazy"

asciilifeform: folx manage to stow all sortsa rubbish, for decades

trinque: the in-group cuts the other direction here.

verisimilitude: I'm mostly just joking around, yes.

verisimilitude: You saw through right through me, trinque.

asciilifeform: trinque: errybody went to kindergarten, once.

trinque: verisimilitude: anyhow I wont mind swapping your key later if you want to generate one in more sanitary conditions later, provided you sign for me the new key with old.

verisimilitude: Alright.

verisimilitude: If I don't get it before I run out of time again, I'll just do it later.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you have roughly half hr, cuz i gotta get up soon

verisimilitude: Alright.

asciilifeform: ( i dun think it took me > half hr to bake pgp key )

verisimilitude: I'm having issues on my Thinkpad with it. I didn't have all of the software installed here.

verisimilitude: On that topic, I've been using GuixSD for a bit; what are you using, asciilifeform?

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-10#1295983

a111: Logged on 2015-10-10 12:08 mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz.asc

BingoBoingo: Informerly local news: https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-government/election/article218745425.html#storylink=hpdigest << I have met two of those derps from the experience of having met them.

asciilifeform: verisimilitude: old gentoo

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: laugh if you like , asciilifeform's 1st thought was 'bundesnachrichtendienst ?!!'

BingoBoingo: lolololol

asciilifeform: verisimilitude has quit (Remote host closed the connection) << loox like he ran out of gas for the modem...

asciilifeform: damn.

asciilifeform: i'ma bbl, then, meat queue overfloweth .

mod6: laters

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854166 << i live under the impression this is automatic, just reg new key and v with old key

a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 01:06 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: make key, you will be able to swap it later by asking politely of trinque

trinque: nope, I have not had time to implement that

asciilifeform: trinque: imho oughta stay manual

asciilifeform: trinque: key swaps oughta be handcranked and reasonably rare.

asciilifeform: ( like all other critica

asciilifeform: l reactor ops )

asciilifeform will bbl, over something that aint a speakandspell lol

mircea_popescu: a ok

asciilifeform: narrowly missed answring http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1853975 : i move 100GB+ barrels of vm liquishit over gb nics ~weekly, on lan, would suck on 100m.

a111: Logged on 2018-09-25 00:10 mircea_popescu: but i suppose if you're running a camwhore site or something.

asciilifeform: ( and backups, and isos, etc etc )

asciilifeform: my boxen speak 9000x moar to each other , bitwise, than to net

asciilifeform: ( is this actually not so in anybody's household ? )

asciilifeform: of course also got boxen pumping MB+/s to net, day an' night, and i ~like~ that they dun saturate the lan while so doing

asciilifeform: could go on, but imho oughta suffice, gb nic 'from my cold dead hands'(tm)

asciilifeform: ( lulzily i got sensors, uarts, etc on 10m nics all the while... on modern day switchen this worx without interfering )