billymg: well, when building a house, the wood and concrete (and labor) is local here
billymg: purchases*
billymg: just saying, it's reich tax on 100% of purchase vs. bananastan tax on only imports
billymg: but, asciilifeform, if you buy land for a coupla million, they don't have to import that
billymg: yes, when ordering off amazon here, the landed price is basically 2x list price (but this includes shipping also)
billymg: i mean for the suitcase carry, not shipped
billymg: asciilifeform: there's a way around it too, at least in cr. have your printed out lulazon invoice ready to go, if under $500 then no tax (html inspect element)
billymg: asciilifeform: in cr mostly don't care at the airport either, though every now and then you might "win lottery" and they'll try to appraise your items
billymg: even in cr i see tons of "cash preferred" businesses (e.g. you get a discount which coincidentally looks a lot like the vat rate)
billymg: yeah
billymg: dunno which countries though
billymg: asciilifeform: right, i do remember reading that there are some other countries that have 0% capital gains tax on bitcoin
billymg: just no made up "capital gains" tax
billymg: there would still be sales tax, income tax, whatever
billymg: why not? wouldn't be any different from gold based economy, no?
billymg: the bringing in is the harvesting
billymg: asciilifeform: well from bukele's perspective this move could bring in a bunch of coins from all over the world
billymg: bukele seems serious about this, i'm cautiously optimistic
billymg: asciilifeform: like actual btc
billymg: asciilifeform: afaik no tx tax on btc in ES
billymg: i guess just like gox
billymg: but works with sending/receiving to "private addresses"
billymg: asciilifeform: exactly
billymg: mats: right
billymg: segwit is the 25% savings ones or whatever
billymg: whaack: pretty sure lightning transactions are 100% off chain
billymg: for the everyday stuff, bitcoin for when you're buying a house
billymg: mats: lightning, yeah
billymg: mats: with bitcoin of course, will "leapfrog", like africa with cell phones. latam will say fuck off to FATFuck and it will become the new continent of freedom
billymg: asciilifeform: i can see that too. and when they find someone who *does have*, they do collect
billymg: and maybe biden drone strikes them all, idk. to me seems more likely that a new balance must be struck, like with unlimited music for $9.99/mo vs. $20 (1990's dollars) per cd
billymg: probably a lot of em will end up in El Salvador
billymg: i'm just saying guys in their early 20s think different (lots of testosterone, willing to die on the frontlines because they know the alternative is living in the pod and eating the bugs), and they don't seem to have much respect for the IRS
billymg: perhaps, i obviously don't have any real data to go on, just sentiment in forums
billymg: but i still see the same with kids in crypto these days, they literally don't care about the over9000 tax laws
billymg: i see same attitude in the youngsters these days re "crypto"
billymg: i assume everyone here remembers the attitudes of kids back in the days of napster, limewire, emule, etc. -- despite headlines of "jimmy gets $5M fine and 10 years in jail for downloading metallica" no one gave a shit
billymg: yeah, at this point the only winning move is cold storage that dies when you die
billymg: obviously i was only musing anyway, i personally don't spend time attempting to "beat the house" with various schemes
billymg: "Whenever you sell an NFT, you incur a capital gain or loss. For example, if you bought an NFT for $10,000 of ETH (this is your cost-basis) and then sold it for $15,000 of ETH, you would incur a taxable capital gain of $5,000."
billymg: from the taxbit article: "In most cases, yes, NFTs (non-fungible tokens) are subject to the same tax laws as fungible cryptocurrencies. If you’re an artist who earned money from selling an NFT, you would need to report the proceeds as income on your tax return. And if you invest in NFTs, any profits earned through sales or trades will be taxed as property and subject to the capital gains tax."
billymg: if there's a relevant bit and you're trying to make a point just make the point
billymg: mats: that's kind of useless here re: NFTs
billymg: also, if they don't treat it as property that means there's no tax then, so just adjust the scheme so that you buy the NFT for near zero, then sell it for bazillion, pay zero tax
billymg: so you're saying there would be no "capital loss" to claim?
billymg: anonymously create NFT, "buy it" with your ETH (send the ETH to yourself), properly report the capital gains (difference in USD value of ETH at the time of your NFT purchase vs. rate at which you acquired it), your NFT "crashes" and you sell it for near zero, properly report capital losses from that sale to offset ~100% of capital gains from the other sale, pay zero tax and keep your ETH
billymg: have* gotten
billymg: asciilifeform: another message that may gotten lost, i found a simple fix for your spam trap positioning
billymg: asciilifeform: 2nd, see http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-07#1071562
billymg: you don't have to nuke the whole db, just go into sqlite and delete the key for the user you just unpeered
billymg: asciilifeform: got it, will restart the bot with that entry
billymg: had to manually delete signpost's key from my sqlite db to get around that bug
billymg: yeah, that's what it was, i'm back in #pest now and so bitbot can log again
billymg: probably oughta manually peer the bot with a few others
billymg: asciilifeform: yeah, the log bot is up, but since i'm not in the chan there's no one to relay messages to the bot
billymg: thimbronion: found a bug in blatta. if you /unpeer with someone you have keyed it will crash inside get_keyed_peers() in lib/state.py because it iterates though the peer_ids in the keys table, but one will be missing from the list of peers
billymg: PeterL: in my theme that line, `<?php do_action('comment_form', $post->ID); ?>`, was the one that spit out the extra fields from asciilifeform's spam trap plugin. i just moved it where i wanted it and that was it
billymg: in your theme do you have a comments.php file with a line that looks like `<?php do_action('comment_form', $post->ID); ?>`?
billymg: asciilifeform: in my theme was one line that had to be moved to put the arithmetic test above the submit button, dunno how different our themes are though
billymg: asciilifeform: awesome, yeah, i figured it might be useful to others as well, just as a failsafe. i'll keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't fail in any strange ways and then publish as an actual signed vpatch
billymg: i increased pg's ram allocation, currently the system runs with about 20-25% ram free, so i could allocate a bit more
billymg: yeah, it's on the same box as the crawler, so that could have something to do with it
billymg: ty customer A
billymg: asciilifeform: nice!
billymg: but obviously didn't end up happening as soon as i had hoped, since the meme flu jammed things up
billymg: mine would sometimes lose its connection to postgres. the bot would stay connected to irc, never an issue there, but all loglines after the severed db connection would just go to /dev/null
billymg: asciilifeform: db reconnect
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-04#1071147 << you finally shamed me into adding reconnect logic to the bot, let's see how it holds up
billymg: restarted
billymg: god dammit
billymg: your own*
billymg: yeah, that's sort of the conclusion i came to, you'd have to do what the ST folks did and write their own UI engine
billymg: re: closed source
billymg: that's fair
billymg: ok, right, but you said you'd use this personal DB app as a standalone app
billymg: because one thought was of course a sublime text plugin
billymg: i wonder if sublime text would also have this problem
billymg: curious why no emacsisms? if someone were to create, in terms of spec, ideal version of this UI in emacs, why not use?
billymg: apparently they wrote their own UI framework
billymg: i found this yesterday because i was curious what my preferred editor was using under the hood: https://forum.sublimetext.com/t/is-qt-framwork-is-use-used-in-sublime/38489
billymg: postgres*
billymg: standalone except for the db, which as you mentioned, could be e.g. postgers?
billymg: and you would use this as a standalone app?
billymg: and if you want the cursor in a link you gotta move it there with kbd. how about modifier to insert cursor, as an added nicety? e.g. alt-left-click inserts cursor in linked word, rather than following?
billymg: ok, so left click simply follows the link (if the word is a link), otherwise inserts cursor at location
billymg: like cgra pointed out, most IDEs do some form of modifier + click to navigate to e.g. function defintion
billymg: ok, so is the reason for "no right clickism" so that it mimics the browser, and so that your brain doesn't have to remap finger movements when moving between this and a browser?
billymg: or middle click if you want "open in new tab"
billymg: right, simply left click
billymg: i see
billymg: doesn't moving hand to the mouse disrupt flow? when reading the description yesterday i sort of imagined this as some kbd only UI
billymg: why not with a modifier key? your right hand has already moved to the mouse to target the link, your left hand is still on the keyboard, no?
billymg: how do you feel about modifier key for the link follow behavior?
billymg would be interested to see napkin sketches if asciilifeform were to upload them to his blog
billymg: ah, like move cursor into the word
billymg: then i misunderstood "to navigate into a link"
billymg: ah, so left click doesn't follow the link, but selects it, then additional keypress to follow?
billymg: asciilifeform: i've been following your description of this UI, if left clicking the word follows the link that would mean the default left click behavior (move text cursor to pointer location) wouldn't work, correct?
billymg: asciilifeform: thanks! and yes, i'm going to try to post more
billymg: apparently quite a few extra knobs to choose from in the complete spec: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/featurelist
billymg: that `font-feature-setting` attribute was new to me, but even that looks like it's been supported since chrome 48, ff 34, etc.
billymg: if anyone likes it and is interested in using it but wishes it just had/did X (e.g. always flowed to 100% width), let me know and i could perhaps include some extra knobs in the released vpatch
billymg: cgra: i actually just now pushed the theme to my www if you'd like to take a look, it should perform well on anything from a phone up to a large monitor (and anything in between). i made this theme primarily for myself but i'd love it if others decided to use it as well
billymg: regarding viewport width, i personally like a fluid width layout but with a max-width constraint so that if/when your site is ever opened on a wide monitor you don't get mile long lines of text. i suspect this is one of those things that will always come down to personal preference though
billymg: the font i selected for my theme includes this feature for zeros and ones, but not for capital-i and lowercase-L
billymg: leverages this feature to include unambiguous 1lI and oO0 characters. it's available in monospace, serif, and sans-serif versions
billymg: cgra: your comment re: font prompted some digging and i found something that might work for you. it turns out some OpenType fonts include alternate characters that can be enabled in CSS via `font-feature-settings`, and the IBM Plex font apparently
billymg: asciilifeform: not sure if the same piece but the mpism i remember is "something something take dollar buy a bun take a billion dollars buy a billion buns. there ain't a billion buns!"
billymg: asciilifeform: yeah, not disagreeing, just waiting to hear how it's not the fed's fault
billymg: which i didn't even think was controversial
billymg: asciilifeform: right, not linear, just saying if you keep printing more dollars you can't expect them to hold the same purchasing power forever
billymg: re: inflation: to me if you have 10 gold bars in the world and each is worth $10M, if 10 more are dropped from space you now have 20 and each is worth $5M. so yes, if the fed printer goes brrr, i see that as having a direct effect on price inflation
billymg: the reason for my confusion was because the question was posed as "what's the best way to normalize BTC price for [inflation]?" -- i.e. didn't see anything in the question about "flows"
billymg: mats: that's sort of what it sounded like. so flow would be another term for the "velocity of money"? or different?
billymg: if bitcoin crashed back to 3 digits i'd run, not walk, to nearest office farm that would have me and start dumping ~90% of the proceeds into btc. i'm not holding my breath though because i suspect the entire reason they pumped it in the first place was to prevent plebs from loading up
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-29#1070071 << had brought this up at some point too, yours seems cleaner than arbitrarily stripping in the bot/logger
billymg: mats: perhaps the word "inflation" is difficult to work with because of the various definitions and measures. but if one wanted a sense of bitcoin's share of global wealth, or % of global wealth stored in bitcoin, would one be able to calculate this (or even get remotely close)?
billymg has nfi what "btc flows" are, perhaps mats will elaborate
billymg: that's also how i understood this question
billymg: mats: what i was hoping to get from the chart was a sense of BTC's "share of the pie", it seems that might not be the right metric, USD spot is also a terrible measure of that because USD itself is unreliable
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-29#1070100 << thanks for pointing out the logic flaw in the chart, like signpost i'm just trying to find some useful signal, like everyone else
billymg: signpost: ah, yup, that was the one
billymg: switch to monthly candles to see the longterm history, shows quite clearly the exchange rate relative to the amount of printolade never left the 2017 range
billymg: also impressed at the reich's efficiency in suppressing the exchange rate (i believe signpost shared this or a similar chart before but can't find the log line)
billymg wonders how long before this is standard across *all goxes
billymg: lol, from the same rag: "Korean crypto exchange Coinone will no longer allow withdrawals to unverified external wallets"
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-28#1069936 << whaack, signpost: i'm in #pest as well. pgpgram your peer info and i'll add you
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-28#1069939 << can try again, just had to restart the one in this chan as well
billymg: pest logger running again: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-12-28#1001400
billymg: under the bead
billymg: one i linked has drawers as well
billymg: asciilifeform: https://www.dwr.com/bedroom-beds/matera-bed%2C-standard-headboard/5114-1.html?lang=en_US (w/ storage, queen, standard headboard, oak: available in 2 weeks -- walnut: 7 weeks)
billymg has family visiting now so won't be online as much, but still checking logs
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-22#1069501 << yeah, i'd be happy to take that one if it becomes available
billymg: asciilifeform: get well soon
billymg: leveraged*
billymg: happy birthday asciilifeform!
billymg: asciilifeform: i saw some claims of "$1.8 billion in levereged longs liquidated" -- cleansing of the degenerates
billymg: iirc shinohai mentioned that znc works with pest, so maybe i'll set that up
billymg: thimbronion: ah, fair enough, so slowly moving towards real production model and not beta testing net
billymg: why does the irc server only bind on localhost now?
billymg: thimbronion: i'm running 9985, and my bot should be connected
billymg: and possibly a third, cynics fleecing users in group 1 for more btc
billymg: i think by now mEth users made up entirely of idiots who don't know what decentralized even means and cynics who know it's just a usg-sponsored scam but are betting it "wins" for that reason
billymg: see also relevant quote from this article: "The last time I tried to sync a node with full history of the blockchain, I gave up. After a few weeks and an Amazon AWS bill of over $10K, I gave up."
billymg: https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1295534697376649217 << "It's not an archive node, but the ethereum network can function just fine with zero archive nodes."
billymg: which doesn't of course matter to anyone who "uses" eth because they're all just using it to trade meme coins via coinbase or other goxes
billymg: and apparently sending any transaction on the eth blockchain now costs around $100 in "gas fees"
billymg: ethereum full nodes (actual full nodes, that store the entire history since genesis, what they call "archival nodes") now have to sync a >4TB blockchain
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, bummer. i guess sort of a trend these days though
billymg: asciilifeform: any word on when this will be ready? i'm working on some updates to the crawler's www and could use the extra horsepower
billymg: asciilifeform: ty, good to know
billymg: signpost: ah, that's all very helpful, thanks. got more in 6 lines here than would've from 6 hours of googling probably
billymg: signpost: what's the best way for someone to write a quick 'hello world' in CL on a gentoo box? i see a list of implementations here and i'm not sure where to start
billymg: yes, was my mistake, i'm now up and running on 9987, along with the bot which now appears to be working again and no longer crashing when trying to speak
billymg: actually wait, might've been my mistake, let me see...
billymg: thimbronion: i'm trying to run 9987, started the same way as before and went to connect in weechat, received this after trying `/join #pest`: irc: cannot create nick "" for channel "#pest"
billymg: thimbronion: thanks!
billymg: perhaps, "...intended for decentralized packet routing" or something similar
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-21#1067097 << i was thinking the same re: the intro text, "Pest is a peer-to-peer network protocol intended for IRC-style chat."
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-21#1067095 << cool idea, maybe i'll make some numbered prints and mail 'em out when the spec is finalized
billymg: ok, back to normal
billymg: accidentally ran the bot modified for pestnet in this chan, let's see if it's working correctly now
billymg: i've updated the pest info page at http://pest.bitdash.io to include a mirror of asciilifeform's latest 0xFC draft, as well as a mirror of thimbronion's prototype
billymg: shinohai: looks like you figured out how to get your bot working, what was the change?
billymg: will look into it some more tomorrow
billymg: i guess at least that rules out that it's something bot specific
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-14#1065827 << yeah, something is up with how i'm running that other blatta server. i tried connecting from here (different machine) and i could connect, and see 'billymg' in my nicklist, but messages i sent to #pest weren't showing up on the other machine
billymg: shinohai: are you seeing awt's recent messages in the channel
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-14#1065673 << nah, he was released. unless captured again since then
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-13#1065580 << i didn't even have to do anything really, the irc mimicking worked well enough that i simply had to spin up another bot configured with my pest instance as the irc server
billymg: kk
billymg: it crashes again after restarting with the same error
billymg: thimbronion: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=2RQK
billymg: my blatta instance crashed
billymg needs more boxes
billymg: shinohai: gotcah
billymg: or different boxes also
billymg: shinohai: same box?
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065481 << fwiw at the moment my pest instance has two clients, myself and the bot
billymg uses dice, but that won't work on a remote pest box
billymg: dpb: not unreasonable imo, will get back to you once i've figured out where they'll go and how they'll get there
billymg: asciilifeform: ack
billymg: asciilifeform: i wonder sometimes too if we'll see them on pestnet someday
billymg: what are they going for? i'm interested in 1, possibly 2
billymg: dpb: do you still have fg hardware for sale?
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-11#1065211 << ah, sorry to hear that it hasn't improved any, that's definitely a bummer
billymg: i could try my summer 2021 vintage gentoo on it, i'm getting ready to start that again on a thinkpad x1 so that i can make notes each step along the way (for publishing)
billymg: sweet deal, looking forward to trying it out
billymg: asciilifeform: no, don't currently have
billymg: asciilifeform: awesome! ty again
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-11#1065102 << http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=6UNm
billymg: asciilifeform: sure! would be neat to have one to play around with here
billymg: asciilifeform: sounds good, will do
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, ok then! that seems a lot easier than doing the whole vpn server setup
billymg is not familiar with it and assumed "ssh tunnel" meant the ssh command in a terminal
billymg: asciilifeform: hm, with an ssh tunnel would i also be able to use, say, a GUI browser through it?
billymg: sometimes just need US ip when in CR
billymg: asciilifeform: it wouldn't be for anything bandwidth intensive
billymg: so i think i just need the TUN module enabled in the kernel for that
billymg: i want to run an openvpn server on it
billymg: asciilifeform: would be difficult for me since i don't have a desk rk unfortunately
billymg: "gzip: /proc/config.gz: No such file or directory"
billymg: asciilifeform: yeah, i tried that too actually, didn't work
billymg: asciilifeform: question for my rk: how do i find its kernel config? i looked /usr/src/ and /boot (after mounting) and can't find anything
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-11#1065044 << about to get to this now
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064899 << speaking of the block explorer, i now have some extra ssd space thanks to thimbronion's most recent cr visit, if whaack can muster the energy to publish a genesis patch of his work i'd very much like to try it out
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064892 << i've used jfw's (which i believe he based off polarbeard's), it works well enough, though trb's fee estimation is a bit dated these days
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064891 << looking forward to this one for sure
billymg: i'm slowly working on being able to set one up somewhere, first acquiring hardware for the box
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064586 << i run a trb node at home, behind a router, so it isn't much use to anyone else really
billymg: while the power rangers wank with "move fast and break things"
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064532 << whole point of trb as i see it is not to direct change but to ensure the thing *doesn't* change
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064539 << or perhaps whaack too, since he's done some recent digging in there
billymg: perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin
billymg: if piggy could be tapped for "feature bounty"
billymg: re: uses for piggy, i'd very much like to have 'signrawtransactionwithkey' in trb, as well as the ability to add "watch only" addresses. the addition of these two features would make it useful as an online/offline solution
billymg: cgra: np, glad it can be of some use to you
billymg: for now i'll just keep an eye on it and restart when those db timeouts occur
billymg: latest line in #pest: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000156
billymg: asciilifeform: yes, currently only on pest net. i guess i should run another process to have it in here for echoing pest lines
billymg: thimbronion: sent you one too, don't see yours
billymg: was working yesterday, lemme try without pass
billymg: thimbronion: this is how i start blatta: `./blatta --port 61474 --password ****`
billymg: but i can't speak (from my irc client) in #pest
billymg: and just saw shinohai's message, which the logger picked up: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-09#1000067
billymg: thimbronion: weird! i saw your test message on my terminal here too
billymg: can you see if my bot is connected? it would've reconnected this morning also
billymg: thimbronion: i'm having trouble connecting to blatta this morning, i'm getting Error(464) in my IRC client
billymg: asciilifeform: no filters that i know of, no
billymg: asciilifeform: nice!
billymg: asciilifeform: lemme know when you have a chance to look into my hosting request so i can get my logger running on some faster hardware
billymg: shinohai: hrm
billymg: shinohai: just sent you a privmsg, did it come through?
billymg: ok, let me try to send you a message and see if the at updates
billymg: thimbronion: my handle is billymg, and the key would be the one you sent me, correct?
billymg: shinohai: here's the rest of the info http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=CQyD
billymg: thimbronion: i did the peer, at, key commands for your station
billymg: shinohai: ah right, one sec
billymg: thimbronion: ack
billymg: shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=L_6W
billymg: ^ thimbronion, PeterL, shinohai
billymg: i've got blatta running and can connect to it from my IRC client, can any of those connected share their peer info?