asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-11#1065351 << this is entirely so -- bootloader is 'unsexy', it either satisfies the bios (either legacy msdos-style, or 'modern' efi horror) and gets out of the way, or doesn't, not much room for 'high pilotage'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 23:16:08 signpost: whole space of bootloaders stinks of "nobody takes joy in this place"
asciilifeform very partial to stuffing kernel directly in rom, but this is tricky on current-day x86 irons. worx a++ on e.g. apu.
asciilifeform: interestingly, would be relatively simple (and 100% compat. with even the most 'evil' current x86 box) to keep it on 'option rom' of a pcie card. but afaik no one manufacturs such a card (ideally would have simply a hole for usb drive, to serve as the rom, and fpga to talk to the bus. update of kernel strictly by physically pulling the stick and writing to same)
asciilifeform: ... then obv. would need no bootloader.
asciilifeform: wb punkman
asciilifeform: meanwhile concluding yest's recycling operation : ty shinohai ! net yield from 'bsv' recycling into piggy == 0.09461753 . after all recycling ops, piggy nao == 34.07754558 , and this'll be in the next broadcast !
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 14:37:43 asciilifeform: on shinohai's rec, trying that gox, hypothetically in ~day might see output
asciilifeform: ( interestingly, the bsv eater demanded ~100~ confs )
shinohai: gm asciilifeform ... yeah BSV has been 51% attacked several times in recent months, so most exchanges require many confirms.
shinohai recommended asciilifeform perform exchange himself in case shit hit the fan and his signing key was needed ...
asciilifeform: shinohai: i expect this is 1st and last time asciilifeform will need to fiddle with shitcoins, lol
shinohai: But wait until the SuperExcellentRealRealBitcoin fork!
asciilifeform: the lemon is 100% squeezed nao ( incidentally that same gox eats 'btg' but i was unable to find a working client for same. so ~those~ bitcents can be considered lost , likely )
asciilifeform: even booted up a malware mswin box and tried their 'official' one, it wouldn't connect.
shinohai: Likely 0 individuals running noads.
asciilifeform: well the changely gox thing claims to eat 'btg', so presumably runs one ?
asciilifeform: then again anyone can claim anyffin.
shinohai: Funny enuf in most BTC forks don't even bother changing ip's in `chainparamsseeds.h` so are still attempting connection to prb nodes hardcoded in.
asciilifeform: shinohai: these at one time (perhaps still, haven't looked recently) regularly popped up an' try to feed liquishit to trb noades
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065362 << seems to contain some kinda hieroglyphs i haven't installed in xorg, lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 09:28:20 punkman: fun short story https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2021/07/07/dont-make-me-think/
punkman: it's littered with emojis, can ignore/strip
asciilifeform: prolly wants to be read on a crapple. i'ma save for later.
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $62832.74
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Could not connect! (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709399
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.107s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709399
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.179s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.088s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709399 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.225s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.253s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.595s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform commented, tho atm only re sect.2
asciilifeform: cgra: in practice, is ~impossible to use 'cooked' faux-old blox to perma-wedge a node -- the victim would have to be connected to the perp and no one else. but they do waste substantial cpu time.
cgra: asciilifeform: why has to be connected to perp only?
asciilifeform: cgra: if yer connected to a genuine noad, eventually will reorg to proper chain
asciilifeform: then again nobody knows how long a reorg is actually possib. in practice.
asciilifeform not yet observed in the wild a noad wedged by being fed a constructed >pow fauxchain. dun mean it's impossible.
cgra: ah you mean can't fool into inhabiting an altchain, as in to believe were the main chain
asciilifeform: cgra: can, tho, as i understand, waste astonishing amt of cpu time & disk tho
asciilifeform: (esp. given as current trb stores blox that got reorg'd away)
cgra: just meant as another fill ram/disk DoS
asciilifeform: imho 'cement' is an adequate pill.
asciilifeform: still gotta be implemented tho
cgra: asciilifeform: yeah, should be easy to implement
cgra: how about user knob of 'how much work or height to past at most, considered valid'?
cgra: asciilifeform: iirc you intended similar for nqb, the line between forever frozen blocks and possibly-reorging blocks
asciilifeform: i.e. permit operator to request a noad to consider 0...n blox as already cemented
asciilifeform: potentially risky, he has nfi what they are necessarily
cgra: asciilifeform: i suppose it's something the operator needs to keep an eye on, perhaps a runtime knob?
asciilifeform: cgra: indeed asciilifeform proposed a max realistic reorg for nqb, but strictly for allowing readonly o(1) blox db
asciilifeform: trb already has a max reorg length, we simply dun know what it is, lol
cgra: interesting point :)
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065424 << to be exact, permit the operator to tell node how much recent work reorgable. this seems to me like it's a thing 'operator must operate' like periodic adding to the cement would be. if your comment still applies, can you elaborate?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 12:12:24 asciilifeform: i.e. permit operator to request a noad to consider 0...n blox as already cemented
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 12:12:37 asciilifeform: potentially risky, he has nfi what they are necessarily
asciilifeform: cgra: imho there defo oughta be such a knob. simply noting that it aint a 100% substitute for 'cement' where can specify concrete known hashes.
asciilifeform: (incl. to massively speed up rejection of bogoblox during init sync)
asciilifeform: a cemented noad oughta sync at ~linerate -- it knows exactly what to ask for (and what to throw out w/out even reading)
cgra: asciilifeform: is 'line rate' assuming other block processing bottlenecks fixed, or hash optimism?
asciilifeform: cgra: main bottleneck historically is bogoblox per se
asciilifeform: (they aint even always bogus per se, simply 'not the next one')
asciilifeform: btw imho a noad oughta still verify a block normally even if its hash was found in 'cement'
cgra: asciilifeform: swallowing a block even on an intelist box, seconds/piece
asciilifeform: cgra: some up to minute+, on e.g. asciilifeform's apu1 noad
asciilifeform: replacing the db with proper o(1) nqb+cryostat would fix this, bdb is monstrously slow
asciilifeform: main bottleneck historically however is the low snr, so to speak, in incoming blox during init sync
asciilifeform: (i.e. not only is db slow, but most of the churn constitutes wasted cycles on unwantex blocks)
asciilifeform: hm thimbronion i'm on pestnet (testing a rubbish-sending variant of your current vdiff) and send a helloworld, but not showing up in pestlog
asciilifeform: oh lol it lost my keys didntit
asciilifeform: disregard patch, it is braindamaged, will need to redo
thimbronion: asciilifeform: ack
thimbronion: good to know you are working on such
asciilifeform: thimbronion: how on earth do i get current own nickname from inside 'server' ?
asciilifeform: the oopism is ultra-hobbling
asciilifeform: why aint there a send_broadcast which takes arbitrary payload ?
asciilifeform prolly oughta leave this alone until thimbronion gets a chance to sweep it a little
asciilifeform: atm mega-spaghetti (with all respect to author, who baked it in record time)
bonechewer is unqualified to write a debunking of the oopism present in nearly every introductory programming text, but would love to read a good one if it exists
asciilifeform: bonechewer: the most persuasive 'debunking' is an encounter with typical oop proggy, lol
bonechewer: yeah but hard to explain to the rank beginners that I work with just WHY they should ignore that chapter with the usual useless contrived example of "car" inheriting from "vehicle", etc, etc.
bonechewer: I've found oopism useful for GUI stuff, rarely if ever elsewhere
asciilifeform: bonechewer: oopism as typically encountered was pushed by salt mine types, and for logical reasons -- it ties the hands of the mediocrities they employ to try to limit the damage that can be done by a particular indian shudra
asciilifeform: (by isolating subsystems)
asciilifeform: rather like the plastic scissors given to american schoolchildren
asciilifeform: in very few places is oopism a net win from any other pov
bonechewer: that sounds about right, but doesn't explain why every damned learn-to-coad book feels obligated to posit oopism as essential core knowledge
asciilifeform: bonechewer: for simple reason. the books are largely written for aspiring 'indians' .
thimbronion has spent many an hour staring into the server.rb/client.rb spaghetti bowl
asciilifeform: thimbronion: if you're able to make a working variant of my patch, would be much appreciated. presently asciilifeform is at a loss re how, the req'd knobs aint in 1 obv. place.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: idea is to make use of the pingpong timer as a kludge for getting a minimal rubbish flow rate to keep ephemeral port from evaporating.
thimbronion: I will check out the patch. To get a nickname, you need to have access to a particular client instance.
asciilifeform: (a user-controllable timer would be Right Thing, tho)
asciilifeform: ugh ok
asciilifeform: that's what i meant re oopism
bonechewer: separately: wrt BTC-accepting colo, I have no personal experience with endoffice.com but some internet acquaintances recommend it as cheap and flexible.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-11 16:23:19 asciilifeform: whaack: i defo agree re nodes. plox to write in with recs if you know of reasonable quality btc-eating hosts (other than asciilifeform's, lol, cage)
asciilifeform: bonechewer: lol their www times out
asciilifeform: not a good sign
PeterL: asciilifeform: for something like this, how would you structure the program without using oopisms?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: imho there's no good reason to have a pest instance support >1 irc client. (i can guess why did this, but imho guest users are best implemented using an external proggy)
bonechewer: hmm, https://www.endoffice.com/minicolo.html works for me... though hopefully they have enough sense to host their www outside their own data center
thimbronion: asciilifeform: noted. I didn't add that capability in myself, just came with the irc server code I repped off, which naturally would support multiple clients.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: it dun load here
asciilifeform: at all
asciilifeform: * Trying 22.214.171.124:443...
asciilifeform: * Connected to www.endoffice.com (126.96.36.199) port 443 (#0)
asciilifeform: * ALPN, offering h2
asciilifeform: * successfully set certificate verify locations:
asciilifeform: * CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
asciilifeform: * CApath: /etc/ssl/certs
asciilifeform: * TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
asciilifeform: thimbronion: makes sense
bonechewer: well, that is indeed probably a bad sign. "works for me" is probably not the kind of routing one wants.
asciilifeform: bonechewer: prolly 1 of those morons who blocks half the planet because got ddosed at some pt
asciilifeform must bbl
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I see what you're doing with the patch. It conflicts with some changes that are underway. I will wrap those up and get a version of your patch in next.
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065481 << fwiw at the moment my pest instance has two clients, myself and the bot
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 16:15:48 asciilifeform: thimbronion: imho there's no good reason to have a pest instance support >1 irc client. (i can guess why did this, but imho guest users are best implemented using an external proggy)
shinohai: I'm using to separate instances for my bot and self.
billymg: shinohai: same box?
billymg: or different boxes also
shinohai: billymg: different boxes.
billymg: shinohai: gotcah
billymg needs more boxes
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065501 << thx thimbronion
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 16:41:10 thimbronion: asciilifeform: I see what you're doing with the patch. It conflicts with some changes that are underway. I will wrap those up and get a version of your patch in next.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065496 << nao loads, but 'the stain remains'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 16:17:39 asciilifeform: hangs.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065483 << makes sense, i went to read whole thing and was scratching head re 'channel keys' and misc. ircisms remaining in there
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-12 16:16:51 thimbronion: asciilifeform: noted. I didn't add that capability in myself, just came with the irc server code I repped off, which naturally would support multiple clients.