billymg: bonechewer: cool links, thanks for the reading material. encouraging to see as well
billymg: i was in the same boat back in '18, have slowly learned a lot over the last few years, still consider myself a noob but at least no longer helpless
billymg: pete_rizzo_: you'll learn a lot just by diving in and building one, even if you don't understand fully what it is you're doing every step of the way
billymg: yeah, i meant a distro that adhered to asciilifeform's crapolade banlist
billymg: dunno how tf there are over9000 linux enthusiasts using e.g. alpine, void, and other boutique distros yet no one willing to work on one without any systemdisms
billymg: yeah, looking forward to true republican os
billymg: asciilifeform: not on newer ones with glibc > 2.28
billymg: if you follow asciilifeform's guide and build a dulap, you can then follow the trb guide verbatim
billymg: though dulap isn't really the type of gentoo you're gonna be putting firefox on
billymg: pending that, the fastest/easiest is to follow asciilifeform's dulap guide and put a trb on that
billymg: pete_rizzo_: i'll be publishing a guide soon with step-by-step instructions for the complete setup, including a gentoo os that you can also install e.g. firefox on and use as a daily driver
billymg: pete_rizzo_: re: trb build, iirc you were on a mac? did you ever find a proper linux box?
billymg: right right, in reality there is no rule of law and they can hang you for whatevre
billymg: how* they'd
billymg: but if just used for gas and groceries not sure how'd they'd make the case you were structuring to avoid. "what, i don't drive a semi truck, filling up costs less than $200"
billymg: yeah, well aware of that one
billymg: if it was 200/day wouldn't be that bad, could freely use on gas and groceries without ever paying a dime in tax
billymg: is that $200 per year? or per day, per hour, per minute?
billymg: glad to hear it, more on the way too
billymg: vex: nice, what'd you think of the article?
billymg: asciilifeform: i almost mentioned that at the end of the article, i recalled the rotor built bins being static
billymg: i backfilled the lines in #a from asciilifeform's logger. only one line was dropped in pest (which i pasted in the channel). i've added 8gb of swap to the rk for now but will have to plug the unsanitized client input hole tomorrow
billymg: none of the queries had any bad effect, other than wasting pg resources (my fault for not having sanitization in place at the app level)
billymg: so possibly the site got it by a bot that was trying to sql inject
billymg: prior to that it was getting some bogus queries through the crawler www, e.g. lookup info where host=drupal.php
billymg: so looking at the postgres logs it looked like it indeed kept getting kill-9'd by the os
billymg: ah, wait, now it's back
billymg: well, restart didn't appear to help
billymg: gonna restart the box
billymg: nah, none of those
billymg: asciilifeform: can't say i'd know what to look for re: disk problems
billymg: Killed process 16688 (postgres) total-vm:685136kB, anon-rss:1612kB, file-rss:367580kB
billymg: Out of memory: Kill process 16688 (postgres) score 186 or sacrifice child
billymg: dmesg shows some out of memory errors actually
billymg: do you know off hand where the lockfile is?
billymg: `ps aux | grep postgres` no results
billymg: but no postgres processes turn up
billymg: start gives: * WARNING: postgresql-10 has already been started
billymg: looks like postgres crashed. trying to start / restart / stop it gives: pg_ctl: PID file "/var/lib/postgresql/10/data/postmaster.pid" does not exist
billymg: just noticed, looking now
billymg: dunno if anyone saw the michael saylor interview on tucker, but he actually goes as far in explaining the properties of bitcoin as saying "the government can put a gun to my head and take my house, but if they pull the trigger they won't get my btc"
billymg: re: eu passports, the first country that does what el salvador is doing but that also has a standard of living *at least* comparable to cr -- i'd probably move there
billymg: asciilifeform: 1% of btc stack
billymg: asciilifeform: no latam either, which is what stuck out to me
billymg: asciilifeform: invest in btc for example
billymg: oh yeah, after mats was talking about binance today i got curious and looked to see if they have a "crypto credit card", they do, and here are the countries they support: https://www.binance.com/en/support/faq/ed89f6797ae943ad87841e58591eb229
billymg: i.e. can invest the money during the year to make up for it
billymg: like such a small % of the amount you "didn't properly withhold" that it's actually in your favor to pay the penalty
billymg: i've had to pay the penalty for "not properly withholding" too, it amounted to jack shit
billymg: i've had large tax bills at the end of the year too, usually not big surprise though
billymg: from irs??
billymg: i can see it
billymg: thimbronion: is this an accurate summary, roughly, of your philosophy on this? "there's no guarantee the irs won't come and shoot your dog tomorrow, regardless of what you do, so why not try to increase your btc stack and/or lifestyle in the meantime"
billymg: and i guess if you "lose" one month that's "capital losses"
billymg: asciilifeform: i think his point is that the volatility, over a long enough time frame, comes out in your favor
billymg: thimbronion: ok i see your point, basically always hold "the float" in btc because on average appreciates at .3% to usd
billymg: and what mats mentioned here i believe is based on your total income for that year. e.g. if you make $50k salary and then sell some asset for a profit you're already in that "kicks in at 40k" range
billymg: short term capital gains iirc is basically just your wage bracket
billymg: 20% is the max long term bracket right now
billymg: right, there are different brackets
billymg: for long term, yeah
billymg: the convert to btc and convert back again is what doesn't make sense
billymg: so i'm not saying hold dollars, but rather, hold the btc forever, and only spend the dollars that are coming in
billymg: ok, so you hold the btc for at most one month, if it gains in that month you're now taxed at the short term rate, which is the same as your wage rate
billymg: er, move that comma right before 'as'
billymg: thimbronion: i understood it, from your description as, take monthly paycheck -> convert to btc -> convert back to fiat to pay bills (e.g. a rapid one-month cycle -- not much time for btc to appreciate considerably)
billymg: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1486051087736094729 -- it still feels like el salvador is the only sovereign actually pissing in the reich's cheerios these days
billymg: i'm also in this camp. whenever i start thinking of going back to slaving for fiat i remind myself that working for the enemy is a trap
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076266 << what type of salary work do you do mats?
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076232 << this makes sense but how is it different from just spending that fiat directly? i guess technically you're avoiding capital gains tax, but only because you're not generating any capital gains
billymg: whaack: well said
billymg: thimbronion: ah, i assumed pretty much every trade could potentially result in "profit", e.g. if you trade 1 btc for a million doge coin, maybe there was "capital gains" on that, and so they generate the 1099
billymg: mats: why not let market self regulate?
billymg: mats: i think big markets are great, i just don't like that "governments" have their hooks in them in the form of regulations
billymg: goxes back then also weren't diligently generating 1099s for all of your transactions
billymg: thimbronion: good question, in some ways i see your point that we're all "already kyc'd". part of it is just that i've never had to do the "selfie holding passport" thing (goxes back in '14 didn't require it)
billymg: asciilifeform: nice!
billymg: makes no difference to me if binance is indeed sovereign but still requires all the same fiat paperwork in order to create an account
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-25#1076084 << asciilifeform, just so this doesn't get lost. let me know if that's an option and how long it would take to get up and running
billymg: PeterL: apparently a niche that even "sovereign binance" cannot fill, so dunno who greater than sovereign that could
billymg is still waiting for another btc-e, i.e. no passport selfies required
billymg: if that's an option
billymg: asciilifeform: i'm definitely fine with getting this thing going without the extra 128G, it would still be a major upgrade from the RK
billymg: how much ram are you short? i remember in my request i spec'd it rather high, i'd be open to starting a subscription with a lower amount and adjusting upwards as you receive the extra sticks
billymg: asciilifeform: any updates on the bigger boxes yet?
billymg: asciilifeform: oh, heh, crawler lost its pg connection (doesn't have the auto-reconnect feature yet), probably what freed up the resources for the logger http://bitdash.io/
billymg: but yeah, definitely faster
billymg: "all chans" searches still take some time
billymg: asciilifeform: i've also noticed that it seems faster but i couldn't tell you what i did
billymg: whaack: ah, ty! i forgot about that
billymg: i'll add jonsykkel's prototype soon too, along with any other working implementations people in here come up with
billymg: i snagged pestnet.io, the old bitdash url now redirects to it. i plan to treat it like therealbitcoin.org, in that i'm not thinking of it as my site but instead that i'm maintaining it on behalf of people working on pest. as such, if anyone has feedback/suggestions please let me know
billymg: whaack: a quick fee recommendation right on the homepage seems super useful imo
billymg: or just nothing and only a search box?
billymg: what do you think you'd show at the root level view?
billymg: re: liquid, it's another layer-2 scheme for fast transactions, like lightning. they wrote up a decent overview of both actually
billymg usually only looks at tx and addr pages, not for whole blocks
billymg: lol yeah, good catch
billymg: whaack: yeah, they keep it simple
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-22#1075674 << ah, i think this got misinterpreted. i meant "it used to be blockchain.info" as in, my go-to used to be blockchain.info, not that blockstream.info used to be blockchain.info
billymg: heh, yeah, exactly
billymg: i wouldn't say i necessarily like blockstream.info i just switched when blockchain.info moved to blockchain.com/explorer to put it alongside their shitcoin wallet
billymg: whaack: my go-to has been blockstream.info lately, it used to be blockchain.info
billymg: yup, the more the merrier
billymg: btw, verisimilitude, you can try to break the bot(s) again if you like
billymg: no rush on my end, there are still features i'd like to add to the crawler, and some guides i'd like to publish
billymg: yeah, definitely, that's a solid half hour in block time
billymg: whaack: makes sense
billymg: ah, that would be even better then
billymg: if your plan is to genesis the "backend" then i would have to do the work of standing up my own and modifying it to spit out e.g. JSON for easy parsing on the flask side
billymg: whaack: yeah, i'd like to put a fancy frontend on it at some point
billymg: ok, i indeed messed up my config, but in a pest related knob. i got tripped up when casting a False in the config to a boolean (is True because non-empty string)
billymg: !. version
billymg: !. version
billymg: ok that's strange, the same code seems to work locally, perhaps i messed up the config somewhere
billymg: should've tested locally
billymg: hrm
billymg: !. version
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1075015 << putting together the patch now
billymg: asciilifeform: off by three
billymg: asciilifeform: regarding patch, the bot's config already contains a list of other bots, perhaps just prevent it from echoing log lines if it comes from a bot?
billymg: ok, turning off bitbot, one sec...
billymg: LOL
billymg: well i guess if you're able to do that it'd be something worth patching
billymg: verisimilitude: are you trying to cause an infinite loop between the two bots?
billymg: need to fill those in manually in the db
billymg: verisimilitude: yeah, bit bot missed 3 lines between these two messages when i adjusted the clock on my system
billymg: could be wrong about that though
billymg: asciilifeform: did not. afaik no one was actually sacked for it at that point, only under threat of being sacked when the deadline arrived
billymg: scotus ruled it to be unconstitutional
billymg: mats: they scuttle the things they know they can't pull off to save themselves the embarrassment of failing to pull them off
billymg: mats: that was my thought as well. similar to "we're gonna mandate the vaccines, we're super cereal this time"
billymg: though i guess we're talking about girls outside the US in this case
billymg: except what happens now that they passed the OnlyFans Thots Tax Bill? (all transactions through paypal/cashapp/venmo over $600 generate a 1099)
billymg: thimbronion: lol
billymg: thimbronion: right
billymg: thimbronion: i've you were wiring the money to yourself, or a lawyer, or real estate co, or whatever, then sure
billymg: thimbronion: so have i, but depends on who's receiving
billymg: so, no, i don't believe that if the illiterate local receives a 5k wire from hong kong that they won't ask any questions
billymg: mats: also, i had experience with this a few weeks ago. i sent a small christmas bonus (about $500) to my groundskeeper. they froze his account until he explained where it came from. keep in mind this was from my local account to his, and we have a now year+ history of transactions between those accounts
billymg: mentioned the reasoning "this person may be a mule"
billymg: seemed targeted directly at mats' hire a local illiterate strategy
billymg: i think even went far enough to mention "standing in society" or "class" or "how they dress" or something to that effect
billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074511 << i forget where i read this but saw some list of ways to identify "suspicious activity" (for bank employees), one of them was "customer makes large or frequent transactions that seem out of line with their income level"
billymg: mats: the local bank account that you opened in the illiterate's name will be frozen immediately upon receiving the first wire
billymg: mats: i still don't see how you get usable fiat out of binance, even with the scheme you described
billymg: ah, so for shitcoin exchange, but not for if want fiat
billymg: and then wire money where?
billymg: don't all of them do the "hold passport next to your face and take photo" now? circumventable as in hire a homeless guy to stand in the photo with a fake?
billymg: mats: binance is non-kyc? i genuinely thought the last of those died with btc-e
billymg: usg doesn't owe me any debts so don't really care how they denominate those
billymg: i meant more strictly in the sense of "hey pleb, we know you've got some gold coins in yer backyard, give 'em up!"
billymg: asciilifeform: this one? http://trilema.com/2013/the-endless-story-of-korea/
billymg: re: FDR, does anyone know how effective that actually was? i.e. roughly what % of privately held gold they were able to collect?
billymg: signpost: that would also be interesting imo
billymg: signpost: they might try it, but btc has properties that would make it difficult
billymg: i think likely, because otherwise no one will give it up
billymg: asciilifeform: i know, but perhaps something like the "hey apple, bring some of that money you have in Ireland back to the US, we'll give you a reduced tax rate" will happen with bitcoin
billymg: asciilifeform: possibly, but at some point i suspect the reich won't even care about the extra 20% "capital gains" tax, already taxed much more than that
billymg: ^ pretty good list of commandments
billymg: "fine fine, you dun have to pay the tax, just give us the btc"
billymg: reich must be getting desperate enough for coin that they're allowing the operation of non-kyc avenues
billymg: i've seen more of these popping up, bitrefill is another, zero kyc (not even signup on that one, but doesn't offer general-purpose CCs, only gift cards)
billymg: kek
billymg: shinohai: can signup with any email?
billymg: the ones on twitter promoting the lending schemes were exploiting this by saying "see, if you borrow against your btc you get to buy the fancy car and still HODL", never mentioning that you must give up your keys
billymg: asciilifeform: i think most of us here count as "never-sell maxis", or to put it another way
billymg: the whole "don't sell your btc, borrow against it!" meme felt like such a huge psyop, often promoted by never-sell maxis
billymg: they'll crash the market "oops you're underwater now, breached terms of loans, we'll take the BTC now"
billymg: same thing will happen to the BTC as happened to the houses in 08
billymg: shinohai: even comes complete with obligatory "funds are safu" note from management
billymg: also came across this writeup of how shitcoins are run now run by the likes of a16z, rather than the russian and pajeet scammers of the 2014-2017 era
billymg: no different from 3rd world bucket shops
billymg: high profile gox (shilled by no other than Matt Damon) "pausing withdrawals" "because of hack": https://archive.is/zebvV
billymg: asciilifeform: ty
billymg: i thought building ff would be easy after that, but fails mysteriously with "(no error message)"
billymg: shinohai: already successfully emerged rust, that built fine on the first try (was enormous though)
billymg: ty whaack
billymg: does anyone here know how to get a firefox built and running on a musl system? wasn't anticipating this hiccup
billymg: why ty asciilifeform, glad you like it
billymg: mirror of the pest spec now updated to 0xFB
billymg: i've also been busy these last coupla days setting up a new gentoo build on a laptop i have, trying the musl approach this time and documenting each step/pitfall along the way
billymg: asciilifeform: haven't read it in detail yet but i've seen you've been making updates to it. you seemed to be on a roll with publishing new versions so i thought of waiting for it to settle down before updating the version on the mirror (since it's a manual affair)
billymg: also fyi the homepage shows a list of recently active trb nodes, perhaps quicker for referencing than using the full nodes browser
billymg: asciilifeform, whaack: looks like a romainian TLD on one of those, perhaps diana c?
billymg: asciilifeform: right, aware
billymg: i enjoyed the reading the discussion last night. imo the elephant in the room with 'wot-powered layer 2' is that, according to reich law at least, it is totally illegal. iirc this is the reason signpost shut down the deedbot wallet
billymg: asciilifeform: "loudly beating the 'gas me' drum" like McAfee?
billymg: yeah, just thinking ahead to when level required to be "not poor" (and therefore worthy of attention) changes sufficiently
billymg: asciilifeform: i suppose your publicly advertised rack service is also a testament to that
billymg: involved tracking isp records, etc.
billymg: as in 60k btc, not dollars of btc
billymg: i read a case study recently, can't remember where, in which they went to much more trouble (though it was for ~60k of btc, maybe from btc-e?)
billymg: how is it an imaginary problem? you mentioned it as a requirement for acquiring coin (not linked to reich db)
billymg: right, but say one was operated by someone in-wot
billymg: address's*
billymg: to break an addresses link to reich's db
billymg: asciilifeform: what about mixers?
billymg: asciilifeform: but how far back in its history?
billymg: since we're touching on this topic again, i had a follow up question that only occurred to me later, could clean (per asciilifeform's standards) be achieved via kyc exchange -> private wallet -> mixer -> private wallet? and if not, what means "clean"?
billymg: i thought whaack's was for his block explorer?
billymg: would be easy to do
billymg: yeah, i was thinking of adding bot UI to crawler
billymg: so in that sense to me it's less about marketing and more about trolling
billymg: a slick package that says "safe space" free of "hate speech" but is actually not
billymg: re: marketing, i simply enjoy imagining the cognitive dissonance that would arise in normies' heads when they see a website that looks like it could've been put out by $SV_Corp but that contains content trips all of their "terrorist!" alarm bells
billymg: "pest" is just an annoyance, a nuisance. and it's the kind of word you'd imagine a darth vader type of the evil empire would utter in frustration when his men fail to kill the enemy for the Nth time
billymg: cockroachdb was a horrible name, i think cockroach is too specific
billymg: i think "pest" has potential. i never really thought of "blatta" as anymore than a codename for one implementation, definitely not something that would be pushed in marketing materials, mainly because it sounds like "blah"
billymg: in order to get something that's aesthetically pleasing, something that you like, and also looks "current"
billymg: possible though to take elements of a trend and use to your own taste
billymg: ikr, fucking zoomers
billymg: i like that you did it, provides some good inspiration
billymg: haha, nice
billymg: yeah, absolutely, at the moment the marketing component is pretty low priority
billymg: it's on my list somewhere
billymg: asciilifeform: i like that http://therealbitcoin.org/ (or http://thebitcoin.foundation/) exists, was thinking Pest deserves something like that as well
billymg: all sorts of random TLDs these days to choose from
billymg: have you considered domain names for a marketing page? at one point i looked for a place to park http://pest.bitdash.io/ and mentally made a short list but never wrote them down, would have to search again
billymg: asciilifeform: looks sort of early/mid 90s, which is a style that's in right now among the hipster designers
billymg: ah, not crashed, just disconnected: "INFO Exceeded 180 seconds of silence from server: disconnecting!"
billymg: sorry, i just changed my system time by 8 minutes, looks like it crashed the bot
billymg: shinohai: updated the info with correct port and new key: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jyZK
billymg: gonna send fresh info in a sec
billymg: shinohai: btw i'm checking my peering info that i last sent you for pest, looks like i might've sent my irc port rather than the udp
billymg: right right, i meant only for the times when you do have to touch lightning, whether you do that through own lightning node and channel, or can't be bothered
billymg: shinohai: did you stand up your own lightning node btw? i was about to embark on this
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, yeah, he mentioned something at the end about proprietary drivers from some components, but figured trb doesn't need the gpu or anything (and can do this as a dual boot setup)
billymg: pete_rizzo_: can put linux on your crapple box too: https://vitobotta.com/2016/10/10/install-gentoo-on-macbook-pro/ (just the first link that turned up, author seems to have gotten it to work, no idea how useful the guide actually is)
billymg: i see your point
billymg: that's why "stolen" superior to "lost"
billymg: mats: you mean "lost/stolen" implies "had" to begin with?
billymg: or "no, got hacked and stolen"
billymg: in both cases can say "no, lost the keys"
billymg: asciilifeform: seeing as how this is a public log and you use your real name on your blog, what's the difference between "we suspect you have coin because gox told us" and "we suspect you have coin because you were talking about it"? don't both roads lead to the same soldering iron?
billymg: yeah, and if cr becomes the next El Salvador then likely the service whaack and i use will start eating btc
billymg: asciilifeform: can tell you my personal experience: if i need an item now, i eat the 100% markup to order on amazon. if i don't need it now, or know that i will need so many per year, i have a family member bring it in a suitcase
billymg: yes, exactly
billymg: like basics, chicken, pork, beef
billymg: a lot of the food is local