asciilifeform: y'know, where derp jumps from belltower with 'wings'
asciilifeform: speaking of these -- did anybody ever properly catalogue all known various attempts to 'replicate daedalus' ?
asciilifeform: white man, if legend is to be believed, built the temple walls , but in living memory nobody's seen'em beneath the monkey shit.
asciilifeform: it's a snoar, straight trigger for pre-emplaced booby, decorated to get past some idjit ids thing somewhere
asciilifeform: i.e. fully an' properly separate rasterism from the comp per se, never buy video cards again..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894887 << i have not forgotten you, mod6 ! will grant wishes in the order lamp was rubbed, promise
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a reasonably compact kernel, to support various items currently in standard use, raid card, FG serial dongles, iptables.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'which kernels work?' : this is a++ q, but sadly incomplete, instead q is always 'which kernels for on $iron'
asciilifeform: in re 'had to import exit()', i found that this is troo for ~100% of os i/o, not only e.g. udp but character i/o, etc. i dunlike the standard i/o glue thing came with at all.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it is exactly == to GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) , yes, btw; i did the 'import' for the same reason as for the character i/o, i.e. to lose the dependency on the standard lib
asciilifeform: unix per se aint http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 or http://www.loper-os.org/?p=267 - compliant, noose at 11..
asciilifeform: i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc )
asciilifeform: gotta bake some sorta x, if you work w/ graphical www, gimp, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only total cure for thompsonism is to ditch unix/c/pc/etc entirely. we aint there yet tho.
asciilifeform: what i thought hanbot was going to do, is to attempt trinque's recipe using BingoBoingo's beachhead stick . then BingoBoingo's fossil gentoo can be pressed into service as standard beachhead, while such thing still needed.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: heathen gentoo is exactly lenin's 'we build the new shithouse from the rubble of the old, there aint any imported brick to build it from'
asciilifeform: iirc this is amply documented in the logs, but will remind folx again, ~errything~ on the heathen mirrors oughta be considered in full fungal bloom, at this pt.
asciilifeform: i'm not even certain that it's ~possible~ today to glue together a complete classical gentoo ( and if possible today -- may not be tomorrow )
asciilifeform: trinque: we supplied hanbot with box containing empty sata disk, and separate (usb) drive from which booted.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1893960 << requisition 'vmware', throw e.g. cuntoo inside, can pretend it's an actual comp
asciilifeform: sometimes i think half of the mud in the world, lives right here in swampistan
asciilifeform: filled'em with high pressure silicone for petrol pumps. but still fucking outrageous.
asciilifeform: 'identifies similars as idempotents'
asciilifeform wonders whether e.g. that microshit compound in bucharest, is run along http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893837 trad, or ustard.conventionally
asciilifeform: not many folx remember old champ tennisist either
asciilifeform: afaik what passes for comp nowadays ( where 'it dun fit on the pnoje screen!!11' ) often dun even ~have~ a reset.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/mOXQE << for thread-completeness. iskra kbd. the magic 'anykey' is on upper left hand.
asciilifeform: ( to the point that the sov pc clone 'iskra', 1st comp i ever laid hands on, actually had a cpu reset key ~on kbd~ , nice big red thing )
asciilifeform: btw in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893771 , ye olde dos, for all of its virtues, is possibly worst example, when you run yer proggy there, os loses all control, you may as well have booted straight into yer proggy without any os
asciilifeform: rright but with the implicit 'and after kill you, will get new one, who does what was told'
asciilifeform: to run with mircea_popescu's analogy, you want to birth the sons such that they go, when ordered, to the seppuku room, lay down the white sheet, and carefully dump out their guts into the provided pot; rather than having to chop'em up in yer living room, where they'll shit selves, thrash around breaking the fine china, and make whatever other mess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you accomplish this by giving the subs a termination condition
asciilifeform: in the pictured example, the only item that ends up loaded is the requested one.
asciilifeform: i expect there will be plenty of attempted-'substitute' lulz, a la the wooden spokes in wheels of late imperial jp trucks.
asciilifeform: the tricky bit with experiments like that, is that if you fry it enuff you get sram cells that go metastable, rather than simply flip, and then all bets off
asciilifeform: ( on asciilifeform's home planet typically folx say simply тараканы , i.e. cockroaches , in skull )
asciilifeform: but if yer concern is more 'how many fit on a shelf' -- it's a champ. approx the size of 1.5 vhs tapes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ye olde 'doom' , complete with 32bit emm thingie, weighed, what, 2,3mb
asciilifeform: it'll run at usb2 speed ( the contemplated
asciilifeform: ( what little of use that ~does~ exist in eng, is 'ancient' and 'wouldn't do!11' to assign, cuz threadbare faculty would rather pad own pockets and send chumpers to buy ~their~ dead tree rubbish )
asciilifeform: that whole chunk of the lang that one is simply better off ignoring
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma get to it at some pt. currently hands full with 1) ffa 16b & 17 2) looking into to whom we gotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892227 3) speccing components for 2nd rk plant
asciilifeform: what i never had ~any~ grasp on is the folx without ~any~ compass.
asciilifeform: even prior to republic, asciilifeform had a rudimentary compass, where 'comp would be a nifty item if it actually worked, nao where are there any people with half a brain who might care to see it fix'
asciilifeform: so, what's the implication, why do we even need working tech, why not sit around and smell own farts like aristotle & co ?
asciilifeform: i aint about to try an' tell mircea_popescu how to use his trained meats. but will remain skeptical that any trainable in the sense asciilifeform contemplates, until see with own eyes, is all.
asciilifeform: incidentally this is a feature that used to be standard on 'adult' comps, but was lost in the pc babel of 1980s
asciilifeform: on hardwarized ffa variants, this output is to be connected to either an actual bell, or at least red 'sad' lamp.
asciilifeform: ( this is ~already~ true, simply not yet connected to the bell. )
asciilifeform: on that subj, attentive ffa reader will notice in certain places asciilifeform marked in comment 'cosmic ray resistance' . this indicates mechanisms where there are two or more separate pieces that ensure a correct computation (or death with alarm bells) if somehow bit flips , when this is inexpensive.
asciilifeform: re preconditions : theoretically they allow for certain optimizations ( mythical 'sufficiently smart compiler' could infer that various range checks cannot be violated if precondition holds ) but afaik our gnat doesn't do this, and i'm not certain that i'd like it if it did
asciilifeform: wasn't implying that diana_coman picked with dartboard, lolno.
asciilifeform: this can be worked around, but would add gnarl, and i won't touch it unless someone gives a compelling argument re why oughta build on a -83.
asciilifeform: neat, compact.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bonus re varenicline, вареник ~= dumpling
asciilifeform: this is merely 1 example of 'this program MUST fit-in-head, above all else.'
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: as a concrete example : you will find that ffa uses an unmoving hinge for karatsuba multiplication. consequently all numbers are required to occupy a space that is a power-of-two bits wide. but from this you get a 3-4x simpler mechanism.
asciilifeform: a student who reads & understood the thing, oughta be able to 'compile' with bare hands, using nothing but hex editor, for any iron he is given.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 1st step is to actually impose on yerself the constraint, 'what i am writing ~is to fit in my head~. then can proceed to help other folx fit into ~theirs~.
asciilifeform: outside of unix planet, typical example of type 3 failure is r5rs scheme (which is ~impossible to write nontrivial program in without reintroducing good % of what makes it seem 'light' vs commonlisp )
asciilifeform: fact is, even long before lispm, on the old cdc mainframes, buffer overflow was impossible.
asciilifeform: and naturally the idiot camp splits into the 'useful idiots', who are physiologically incapable of having a clue, and the purposefully-mendacious charlatans, who know exactly where 'exploitable' comes from and ~like~.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: the zero-terminated string more or less single-handedly created the 'comp security' pseudo-industry
asciilifeform: or, say , the spectacular idiocy of 'branch prediction', currently racking up cost comparable to chernobyl
asciilifeform: much of the complexity in the bolix system is, in light of modern tech, unnecessary, it was muchly constrained by the limitations of the period tech
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you may find interesting to study the 1 example where someone actually ~did~ it for common lisp
asciilifeform: i'd still like to ~categorically~ abolish thompsonism at some pt tho.
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw i routinely disasm what my gnat shits forth, and haven't yet found any 'surprises', so if ye olde gnat is indeed thompsonistic, it is quite subtle , rather than hammer-in-yer-face 'here's a MB of ??? that phones home to mars'
asciilifeform: ( whether this wins over starting from empty, remains to be seen )
asciilifeform: ( as it is, we have an active unresolved 'thompsonism' in the mix )
asciilifeform: the ultimate win would be to get something other than gnat ( say, an adatron implemented in cl... ) that can build something resembling a working gnat. but sadly i suspect this is yrs away.
asciilifeform: this is not in general a problem, e.g. ave1's gnat works just fine as cross-compiler.
asciilifeform: most folx find that it takes them a coupla days to even get 'hello world' to ~compile~.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: imho it is a quite fine lang for building systems where 'surprises' are utterly impermissible. but it does take work.
asciilifeform: for nao, simply avoid losing it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in asciilifeform's planet vise-grip is used for exactly 1 thing ( when working on ancient auto engine, to clamp the old dead hood lift piston in place... )
asciilifeform: i dun presume that errybody oughta burn cycles to post erry possible oldies. but mircea_popescu's i simply happen to like.
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu had these ultra-compact pieces that i suspect would penetrate the biofilm of all sortsa thick heathens today, if they were still on the main pg
asciilifeform: in other lulz, swampistan went from -16 to +16 c in <day .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not noose, but i simply like the flavour. just read 'guide to psychopathic rape', for instance, a+++
asciilifeform: 'Implementing muLisp for the Intel 8086 was more challenging because the 1-megabyte address space was segmented into 64-kilobyte segments. The MS-DOS operating system reserved 360 kilobytes of that address space for its purposes, leaving 640 kilobytes for implementing and using muLisp. Awkward segmented architecture is becoming less common as memory costs decline. However, techniques for overcoming the limitations of short pointers a
asciilifeform: mp-wp seems to work great , but asciilifeform hobbles when tryin' to modify it, php feels inescapably like cobol when i work with it
asciilifeform has at various times attempted cl blogotron, but broke teeth on acct of insufficient wwwfu. if spyked decides to genesis his, would seriously consider converting
asciilifeform: yarvin's original claim to fame (of a kind) was a short and abortive attempt at this, he dug up a buncha confederate/slavery/etc texts and mirrored/commented
asciilifeform: 'To sane humans, such a character is bewildering, but let's not forget an important piece of the puzzle. Jim Blow isn't there for sane humans. He's there for a very specific category of defective human minds. They call themselves "hackers" or something like that, and the rest of the world calls them nerds. ' << a++ imho
asciilifeform: ( and it aint as if 'simply aint done', saud princes routinely get on airplane & fuck heathens )
asciilifeform: http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/liquishit/tdog.flv << posted strictly for thread-completeness, i agree with mircea_popescu re it being largely a snoar
asciilifeform: nao this is interesting ( i assume both of you used phf's modern vdiff, which as far as anyone knows is 100% deterministic and dun import 'locale' crapolade like the ancient one did )
asciilifeform: trinque: see ffa as example
asciilifeform: 'bang' just as good as 'whimper'.
asciilifeform: let's have it for thread-compleetness ( i'll even revv up a box with sound & watch )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for all i know, d00d runs his palace as exact copy of mircea_popescu's, and journos simply make shit up.
asciilifeform: hollow stump.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891883 << sure does ! ( if mircea_popescu's oxford segment is supposed to support the 'not all ! institutions decay like old stump', i'm not seein' it, seems to support exactly opposite angle.. )
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, this one is (standing next to the others) ~honest~ : immediately admits 'we're usg front an' proud, heil clitler' vs the competing shops who pretend, thinly , to somehow not
asciilifeform: still waitin' for the counterexample, of dynasty somewhere that didn't eventually have its arse handed to it by outsiders
asciilifeform: wat do if set 2 is empty ?
asciilifeform: why not the typical example, where romans 'hey, phunphakt, some rocks emit flammable black piss'
asciilifeform: the courageous conqueror's sons are lazy fucks, piss away empire, new conquerors come an' GC it, and while(1).
asciilifeform: i'm suspecting an ~absence~ of a distinction, rather than a distinction. i.e. they eat an' shit just like in europistan, and they also complexity-collapse.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'just like us' is not an implied hypothesis ( if to take cn at face value, they pissed on the electric fence 3, 4 times, europistan , 1-2 )
asciilifeform: so not as simple as 'king issues' ( i'm aware that church-besotted europistan tried heroically to maintain the fiction, but was quite porous )
asciilifeform not domain expert in running gulag, but sees it as obv that in past , some carrot/stick algos were competitive, in fyootoor -- other, diff ones win
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891513 << was dead letter already in early '80s, when it was Officially proclaimed that all sortsa places where usaschwitz inmates spend good % of their time ( car, train, street, pub, etc ) are 'exempt'
asciilifeform: '... Should everyone design their own ciphers, millions of companies and individuals designing their own terribly weak ciphers, new one every year? There is no automated way to cryptanalyse even naively weak ciphers (and many would make not so naive ones.) Tens of thousands of cryptanalysts cannot begin to chip away even at the weak security of millions of new custom and unpublished ciphers every year. First they would have to figure
asciilifeform: meanwhile, even in heathendom : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wv5Om/?raw=true >> '...the ideology of cryptography preaches the exact opposite: never do custom cryptography, always use the standard one, approved by the experts who know better than you... ...At this point, tens of thousands of cryptanalysts had ten years to compromise four algorithms, designed by less than dozen experts. The official mantra to use these four is part of t
asciilifeform: mats: i'm where can mostly demodulate, but haven't even attempted to modulate.
asciilifeform: assumption is 'terrorists want to move objects FROM orcistan TO reich'
asciilifeform: for completeness, oughta include the laughably failed attempts -- the london-based 'alt-gov'-s of poland, ukrs, etc
asciilifeform: it's 1 of those brit-empire algos the current derps 'inherited' (brits packed it in india but left behind a pakistan; usg , then, in germany (standing), korea (standing), vietnam (oops), taiwan (standing), etc
asciilifeform: or the pumping stations ( unmarked on maps, cuz 'strategic', but quite visible from street )
asciilifeform: the orig 'rotor' thing was prompted by heathen gentoo having random crapolade instead of a sane compiler, libc, etc
asciilifeform: unless i misread thrd, mircea_popescu's implication is that 'amateur' is a type of mental defective
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought 'amateur' is simply what's left when you subtract folx who bake for money.
asciilifeform: in other lullies, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=miller+rabin+constant+time << seems like we're the only folx who ever showed detectable symptom of giving a shit..
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu was the orig 'lead by example' in subj, ran (part of?) his reactor by hand
asciilifeform: by any reasonable expectation, place oughta have turned into n-th reich, compl. with biergartens & lederhosen
asciilifeform: mod6: evidently you dun have enuff comps running!11
asciilifeform: rom eu are carrying vacuum cleaners, tv sets, computers... country of deficits, like ye olde su'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: seems like it'sa right & proper favela, complete with zero signs on Official maps & 100% pinched mains current
asciilifeform: total mass of the sores, to complete the thread, stands at 256kB.
asciilifeform: it counts empties
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : anybody have a handy piece of bash to count ~nonempty~ lines in a dir ?
asciilifeform: the only 'heavy' component remaining to weld on, is keccakism.
asciilifeform: ^ from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-27#1890343, where gmp still manages to die on it
asciilifeform: ^ 343413 is smallest composite for which 2 and 3 are liars
asciilifeform: perhaps idea is to stuff maduro into the recently-emptied hole where noriega sat
asciilifeform: if the other 3/4 also in london but they simply not asked for it yet..
asciilifeform: incidentally, rad decay + http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887345 would make an entirely fine clock ( with relatively high local jitter, vs. e.q. quartz, but extremely predictable long-term 'aging', and ~entirely insensitive to temperature/electromagnetic fields/etc )
asciilifeform: i see a field's infestation with alchemists, astrologers, faith healers, as a ~secondary symptom~ -- of the field not having anyffing like a rational foundation to begin with.
asciilifeform: '...we construct a 1024-bit composite that is guaranteed to be declared prime by the GNU GMP library [Gt18] for anything up to and including 15 rounds of testing (the recommended minimum by GMP). This is as a result of GNU GMP initialising its PRNG to a static state and consequently using bases in its Miller-Rabin testing that depend only on n, the number being tested. We also show how base selection by randomly sampling from a fixed
asciilifeform: incl. openssl, gmp, etc.
asciilifeform: ( tldr : d00d generated 'threaded cock for smart arse' composites that break various heathen m-r proggies
asciilifeform: the xyz-pnoje-etc people -- do not pay for it, simply.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: from experience, i know that one can get decent-quality items built in cn if one simply ~pays for it~
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for thread-completeness - same jp folx (and others) also sell a temp-controlled 'oven' xtal, warrantied to 1 ppm. these draw lotsa current, comparatively, and cost 50x moar, so i did not use in FG ( where the accuracy of the oscillator is solely to put out the expected baud rate, and it dun do any good to make it substantially higher than the receiving machine's )
asciilifeform: iirc we ~did~ have a thread where 'why didn't they make a chronometer that can be stuffed up arse, for constant temp' tho.
asciilifeform: re fishes -- ru folklore notably contains ~2~ wish-granting fish stories : 1, the internationally familiar one, where old fishwife keeps ramping up the wishitude until she overflows the register and gets fucked; and ~other~, where young lad knows how to use the fish, and gets half of kingdom , via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-14#1841561 process
asciilifeform: imho it really aint important that the shell colours etc be preserved
asciilifeform: ( in re this subthread, example proggy posted 2d ago was afaik correct )
asciilifeform: while it boils : btw log readers can ignore the earlier arithm, it is entirely off ( asciilifeform computed r * 2^s = n instead of r * 2^s = n - 1 ... )
asciilifeform: to redo the earlier munged example: bin(12) == 1100. s = 2. r = 3. (n - 1)^r mod n == (12 - 1)^3 mod 12 == 11^3 mod 12 == 11, i.e. n - 1. witness.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: bin(12) == 1100 . then r = 2. then, (n - 1)^r mod n == 11^2 mod 12 == 1. 12 is pronounced composite.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you can trivially see that it correctly judges e.g. 12 to be composite.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: correct. in implementations where a is forced to <= n - 2, n - 1 is excluded
asciilifeform: or hm, nope, just swallows icmp
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun think i could resist the temptation . and whoknows, maybe yer schubert eats 1 too many magick pies that day , and loses
asciilifeform: sad great^3grandson of composer ?
asciilifeform: how's this work ? built own comp, wrote own client... ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lotsa examples of these zombies, e.g.,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it aint even wrong, as such. simply ignores fact that it'll always say 'prime' when eats a carmichael.
asciilifeform: hm i must be thick.. what was the orig complaint about
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did the fraud complaint result in anyffin but the pictured lulgem?
asciilifeform tuned out of subj when realized that can't point to a distinguishing algo between gavin, hearn, wright, et al -- they're idempotent , like electron..
asciilifeform: recall that huawei was usg.fatwa'd for konsoomer pnoje also ( presumably logic is, 'ohnoez, even tards no longer want to buy ipnoje with 0 buttons and $2k price -- wat do? let's try banning all competition' )
asciilifeform: this type of test is impossible on systems where m-r eats witness straight from rng, without possibility to override by hand.
asciilifeform: when we sit the thing down on a microcontroller with mask rom, or some other similar iron, it will be important to be able to spot-check the m-r and determine that for some input known only to you, it actually behaves as m-r.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : plox to lemme know if ~any~ part of this is unclear, cuz this is rather important moving part
asciilifeform: per the proof, it is seemingly harmless ( a carmichael number has 1/4 of the integers as 'liars' ) but what it does is to prevent simple manual test with small numbers , which is imho quite typically kochian
asciilifeform: naturally each new X is pumped from FG, rather than kochian increment or any such thing
asciilifeform: ( for n00bz, m-r is montecarlistic for probable-primality but deterministic for compositeness, i.e. if outputs 'composite' then you have in fact a composite )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: uy1 temps in-range, for 8th day; and so at all times other than when that battery's charging
asciilifeform: ( current offering -- includes, and not even attempted to hide any moar )
asciilifeform: re microshit 'os' in boxes -- seems like they see primary competition currently as being... old versions of own shit. ( recently they demonstratively had a d00d jailed, not even for 'pirated' but for selling at flea markets ~old winblowz~ disks )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re crapple, it's become a rich generator of lulz : their current strategy seems to consist of, per iteration of product : 1) cut an essential component (e.g. headphone jack) , and declare 'fashionable' 2) double price
asciilifeform: btw, imho it's a good example of 'ffa-style' narrowing of problem domain ( there is no good reason for ancient tx to be rewritable )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-06#1666647 << the original item, for thread-compleeetness
asciilifeform: cuz theres no way to do it without support from the compiler.
asciilifeform: this was a shot at improved (pointerism-free, externally) variant of earlier system 'horsecocks'
asciilifeform: i dun disagree with (what i think is) mircea_popescu's upstack point, tho, bigger machine gives you bigger wrench to drop on yer foot re complexity.
asciilifeform: not so many folx actually felt need for c or other compiler/macroasm on 16-64k micros tho.
asciilifeform: ftr, i never had a c compiler on my c64
asciilifeform: fwiw when asciilifeform , not even in teen yrs yet, lost interest in olympiads, this was why.
asciilifeform: btw that b00k was prolly the best , imho, known collection of olympiad problems
asciilifeform: typical example is all the crud where it asks you for the last digit of a heavy exponent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's quite a few ( or at least in asciilifeform's time, were ) 'olympiad' problems which are simply chinese-style 'do you know the classics' masquerading as olympiad problems
asciilifeform: only then can say 'temperature 0'.
asciilifeform: well yes , it aint euler who puts the 0 in the temperature
asciilifeform: ( see the gcd example. )
asciilifeform: ( exactly as gcc is the only presently-working general-purpose c compiler, etc )
asciilifeform: iirc phf attempted also to use it, to make a framebuffer driver in ada, but i dun recall if he ever returned with output
asciilifeform: i sawed on it for some weeks then, but only additional find was that any attempt at using controlled_limited from inside a static lib gave same effect.
asciilifeform: it is actually a complete proggy, correct per the ada standard, but currently doesnt build on acct of the gnat bug described in the linked thread.
asciilifeform: ( 'the mmap thing', for thrd completeness, is described here - http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-16#1873101 . a variant of 'horsecocks' without rampant pointerism.)
asciilifeform looks fwd to studying diana_coman's example proggy
asciilifeform: diana_coman: we had some decent snow here in swampistan also ( and for 1st time in coupla yrs.. )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: a proggy is an 'ideal object', almost anyffin, within obv limits of algo complexity is 'possible'. but in actual practice 'notation is worth 80+/-iq' and some notations make folx into effectively downs syndrome sufferers when the # of moving parts crosses certain threshold
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889099 << i daren't to 'do something about it' until properly understood the problem. sorta like didnt dare to attempt trb in 2013, or ffa in 2015, etc
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889097 << with engine, you can compute the efficiency ( joules out / joules in ) and even get ~exact estimate of how much useful work engine of particular size will do. but with shitware..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889096 << nah, it loses for reasons unrelated to bw. was given as example of geographically-long link with ok bw simply.
asciilifeform: i.e. could build router that simply... routes. rather than trying to be 'smart' and keep stateful connections.
asciilifeform: fwiw simply rejecting tcp won't do the trick, you also gotta not allocate state for udp ( all extant routers, afaik, do.. but e.g. s.mg protocol and similar, will operate entirely correctly without this, as i understand it )
asciilifeform: briefly upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889021 << possibly i'm thick, but it ~also~ never made sense to me why a ~router~ would fall down, either. seems like if yer pipe is e.g. 100mb/s , and incoming enemy crapola at 1000mb/s, then you simply oughta get (from pov of arbitrary test peer) 90% packet loss. rather than a smoking crater where router was.
asciilifeform: it doesn't stop being retarded simply cuz mircea_popescu and for that matter asciilifeform give the thing 256GB of ram to run it and never see the barf
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection is to the prng element in apache and other heapistic proggies, where actual resource consumption is a function not only of req rate, but how much footprint of each one happened to be , fragging the heap
asciilifeform: aha, simply eats 10x ( or even moar ) current than really oughta.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is roughly like trb - can throw iron at it until it eats the desired reqs/sec without shitting self. but, just as in trb, it's a barbaric/empirical ritual, quite impossible to say 'on napkin' how much cpu will yield what # of what kB pg served /sec w.out falling
asciilifeform: ( at the risk of pedantry : they used ~heapism~ . consequently, found it impossible to answer the q 'does machine have the cycles to do this-here request?' in o(1) ! )
asciilifeform: if the cycles aint there to serve a page or whatever op, then simply shouldnt ACK, that's it
asciilifeform: http://www.numpy.org/neps/nep-0014-dropping-python2.7-proposal.html << from horse's mouth.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'numpy' ( 1 of the few useful libs for that lang, does various numericalmethods ) Officially turns tard, proclaims 'this is last ver to support python 2.7, from nao on 3'
asciilifeform: btw apparently the 'translator wears clothespin on nose' item is mythical : turns out that good % of the tapes were simply dubbed by this 1 ex-boxer, with perma-broken nose
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the temps/voltages thrd is re 'uy1' , the collective www box yea
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma include a simple machine-readable ambient thermometer/hygrometer in the cargo, for good measure
asciilifeform: they are simply misplaced atm.
asciilifeform: i dun consider slotin et al to be shining examples to follow, but will also point out , that errybody dies eventually, and personally would rather chance to eat 100kV than to die of boredom sitting in a chair kanzure-style.
asciilifeform: ( on top of this, the actual meat being modelled is not a rigid object, it has substantially variant geometry depending on temperature and properties of medium, e.g. ph )
asciilifeform: von neumann comp spectacularly retarded for the app
asciilifeform: imho it's a wide green field for hypothetical resurrection of ~analogue comp~
asciilifeform as a boy built the classic toy boat from tin can and soldered ballpoint pen tune (the iron kind), add a camp stove pellet and a++ 'pulse jet'
asciilifeform: ( they offer a 50 $ dev kit, compleete with cd fulla winblowz shitware )
asciilifeform: i simply can't bring myself to buy any to test, i dun have any pigs that need autoclassifying
asciilifeform: intel for instance sells 1 , for about 20bux in qty. what is actually on the die , i have nfi, and it only worx with their oddball closed compiler thing.
asciilifeform: a fast rsatron is important mainly in light of fast rejection of crapola sent by enemy, rather than for payload per se.
asciilifeform: ( a single FG , recall, yields ~7kB/s at room temp )
asciilifeform: i'll add , for completeness of thread, that if yer ~sending~, rather than receiving, rsa packets, your bottleneck will be ~rng~ long before it could ever be the arithmetron per se
asciilifeform: it's no moar complicated than to count bricks in a wall.
asciilifeform: koch's turd, despite being implemented in c, with no bounds checks, actually loses to ch14 ffa , for inputs of same ~width~ -- despite fact that he doesn't constanttime and thereby gets to skip massive work
asciilifeform: ( this is not a contradiction in terms, it is possible to implement whole thing, with same constant-time algos, by hand asm )
asciilifeform: helps to recall that the problem which originally prompted asciilifeform to write ffa, is a (currently hypothetical) application where rsa sigs are carried in ~individual packets~
asciilifeform: ftr i suspect that entirely ordinary algos, such as are seen in the current ffa, would already give ~line-rate~ (i.e. , 4096 modexp faster than 1G/s nic can give you new inputs to modexp on ) if implemented in iron properly.
asciilifeform: in simple o(n) bignum operations like addition, the cost of instruction decoding for each consecutive 'add' , is substantial % of the cost
asciilifeform: could simply have optimized 'take these-here N words and those-there M words, and put bignum addition in memory starting at O, and overflow flag in P ' or similarly
asciilifeform: without any jumps
asciilifeform: a correct asmism would simply read the carry flag and put the value where it belongs (e.g. in fz_add, into the next addition, in comba -- into the accumulator; etc)
asciilifeform: therefore that approach is completely verboten.
asciilifeform: btw, must also add to bvt's http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-20#1888517 >> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Integer-Overflow-Builtins.html admits that : 'The compiler will attempt to use hardware instructions to implement these built-in functions where possible, like conditional jump on overflow after addition, conditional jump on carry etc.' , i.e. there is not a guarantee that the thing dun introduce cond jumps.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is conceivable that the ones currently sold are constant time , i simply haven't tried'em.
asciilifeform: in a hypothetical asmistic branch of ffa, you'd want to implement whole comba in asm, rather than merely word mul
asciilifeform: bvt: i'd prefer asmisms to c imports ( which not only ugly and compiler-dependent, but i suspect destroy performance with overhead )
asciilifeform: the ~other~, tho less simple, speed boost, is if one were to obtain a machine with wider multiplier !
asciilifeform: the only reason asmism even potentially invites itself, is that idjit compiler gives no primitive for add/sub-with-carry or full-word mul
asciilifeform: as i noted previously -- i do not expect to find any moar ~asymptotic~ speedups for ffa algos , such that are relevant to the sizes of numbers typically used in public key crypto
asciilifeform: sorta why, when i first started preparing the thing for publication, wound it back to the simplest known ('egyptian') variant, and walked from there.
asciilifeform: bvt: there's a long list of things that asciilifeform considered and (for time being) rejected from ffa, on acct of costing substantial complexity for very small saving of cpu cost. e.g. unrolled comba.
asciilifeform: there was another fella (since wandered off) who posted last yr an attempt at de-recursivizing karatsuba ( it's definitely in the logs, can't find it just yet tho )
asciilifeform: little plastic padlock, comes in crates of 9000 , with consecutive stamped #s. ( not only quite simple to forge, but jimmies with ordinary hairpin, like 19th c. handcuffs , and snaps closed again... )
asciilifeform: in ye olde sovok they used pb seals on iron wire, stamped with signet; but in usa pb is envirowhiner-verboten, ergo plastic
asciilifeform: the gcc5+ gnomes, occupy selves with cranking out 'mandatory' kludges for intelism; removing backend support for vintage, marginally-sane archs (alpha, hitachi, etc); gluing-with-broken-glass various incompatibilities to prevent coad developed under 5+ from building under 4.x; inserting 'optimizations' that snake around naive cprogrammer attempts at bounds-constraint; and so forth.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a google-submitted patch, and it got eaten by the new, 'improved' torvalds, near as i can tell
asciilifeform takes the occasion to observe that ffa is 'speculation'-proof, not only in theory but as empirically tested on 7 ( & counting ) intel boxen of various vintages
asciilifeform: in other noose, all temps on uy1 in-range.
asciilifeform: ( and near as i can tell, ~100% of usg 'dope policy' is simply own competition for dope konsoomers. but i'm not particularly qualified to opine, nao if only gabriel_laddel were around... )