BingoBoingo: ^ Yes I raised the alarm. Efforts to convince me to lower it are welcome. If you are outside my L1 you need to offer a stake and odds for your petition to be considered.
mircea_popescu: apologetic girl -- "today's the last of my hormone pills, might have something to do with it". deaf mp -- "whore moan pills ?!"
mircea_popescu: ahaha check him out asciilifeform ! MATHEMATICAL NOTATION!
bvt: re math, i found that htmling it would be unreadable, so decided to use images.
bvt: as far as code speed is concerned, i still don't know whether i fucked up something, or the algorithm is fundamentally slow after some bignum size
bvt: will provide more seals after i work with chapters 7-9 more.
mircea_popescu: bvt if you think about it, it has to be slower, because operations are fast and allocations slow.
bvt: yes, and it's also true for memory accesses. however the number of executed instructions also increased a lot, which makes me suspect that there is something i missed
mircea_popescu: i suppose you might say "it shouldn't be x2, my expectation would be it's x2^1/2", but w/e.
bvt: i would not be surprised it was 20% slower, but 2x was surprising for me
bvt: also, the linked pdf contains one FFT-like algorithm i considered to implement (using walsh transform for convolution instead of fft). but it'd be even more complex
bvt: yes, actually in this karatsuba/toom algo one can embed comba's trick, but the code would become even gnarlier
bvt: re fft: i would wait until a use-case appears, to at least understand what are the requirements. do you have something in mind?
bvt: nope, but there were a few mentions of other algorithms in the logs, so i decided to have a look. don't remember how i arrived at this particular one
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 15:49 mircea_popescu: bvt if you think about it, it has to be slower, because operations are fast and allocations slow.
bvt: no, i mean that particular paper. i initially wanted to implement a fft-like multiplication algorithm, but got interested in this karatsuba/toom when reading the paper.
mircea_popescu: there's that old joke re "i read good books twice but bad books i don't read at all" which very much applies : if only one knew before looking whether an algo is fast or slow!
bvt: mircea_popescu: thanks
bvt: asciilifeform: a better attempt at this algorithm can involve using comba at the lower level.
bvt: myeah, complexity does not go too well with both constant-time and fits-in-head.
bvt: will do. so far i had a very brief look at it
bvt: my understanding is that asmism would go only for lower-level ffa code, i.e. barret/modexp will remain as-is.
mircea_popescu: i suspect double-wide mul might be implemented by lookup tables.
bvt: i.e. W_Borrow/W_Carry still cause the overhead?
bvt: i'll be afk an hour or two
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ie, splits the ints in bus width chunks and only does all 4 quadrants depending on results from the others.
mircea_popescu: nah, just, if you're multipling (for simplicity) 01 x 01, it won't do 0x1 0x0 0x1 parts
a111: Logged on 2019-01-19 13:50 mircea_popescu: aaand in wtf lulz,
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886738 item died again, same exact details, same exact item, jan 15th (ie, it ran for ~day). ima finally get my ass into gear and debug-run it.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in trilema lulz : netstat | grep http | wc -l > 190.
mircea_popescu: apparently 200 reqs ~per 100ms~ (that's how long it takes to complete one) is not enough to bring it down.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 16:23 asciilifeform: as i noted previously -- i do not expect to find any moar ~asymptotic~ speedups for ffa algos , such that are relevant to the sizes of numbers typically used in public key crypto
bvt: agreed. on x86_64 is compiled to ADD; SETC sequence, but who knows what happens on other arch/gcc version.
bvt: i wonder how this is a valid argument even there. if nothing reads the flag, there are no pipeline dependecies.
bvt: perhaps some old APL machines would qualify
bvt: actually, that fft-like multiplication algorithm was developed in APL
bvt: are such machines even build these days? i.e. for dsp, or other use-cases?
bvt: would this actually be efficient on current arches? this would stress instruction decoder a lot
bvt: i guess i could do some experiments here. the immediate question is that ffa does plenty of FZ_Adds with different FZ'Length, so full unrolling would not really work (unless i miss something).
bvt: aha, i see. this would also involve lots function call inlining as well
bvt: writing such code really could use some program to generate the necessary amount of adds/subs
bvt: ave1's fix also fixed the 'undefined references' in static lib with gcc-6.3 for me
bvt: you can't verify output of 'write 4096 adds' by hand, though
bvt: this is true, rigth.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform disk afaik fine ; probably bdb itself shat it at some prior point, tho atm dunno a mechanism.
mircea_popescu: instrumentation to hunt for this is by now in the vein of "debug bdb". which im not particularly inclined to do, marked for complete removal anyway.
mircea_popescu: afaik ssd realloc counter starts turning ~the day they're deployed.
mircea_popescu: in principle, for as long as that's not run out, the disk won't lose sectors. but then again, a definitive answer to this turns into debug-ssd-fw+kernel, which...
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 19:12 bvt: are such machines even build these days? i.e. for dsp, or other use-cases?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only "revived" as a money sucker, afaik deployments still on off the shelf micro
mircea_popescu: "want". so far that thing only keeps "researchers" mortgages paid.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 19:47 bvt: you can't verify output of 'write 4096 adds' by hand, though
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and "russia" sells "own processor". "only worx" etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 19:59 asciilifeform: a fast rsatron is important mainly in light of fast rejection of crapola sent by enemy, rather than for payload per se.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 17:20 mircea_popescu: apparently 200 reqs ~per 100ms~ (that's how long it takes to complete one) is not enough to bring it down.
mircea_popescu: was all the rage when i was in school. alongside the period "GREAT DISCOVERY" of "3d glasses".
mircea_popescu: (frosi, teh magazine of teh ddr's own pionierorganisation iirc, included a pair in one of the editions i got. i even played with them.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-20 19:52 asciilifeform: because unlearns faster than learns.
mircea_popescu: in fact, that publication enduringly shook my confidence in german intelligence. included ALL SORTS of utterly retarded shit -- say a "boat" consisting of a piece of paper with a cut inside, you pour oil there and it "propels" it
mircea_popescu: at least the french socialists entirely dedicated themselves to "aesthetics" ie masturbation, rather than "science" and "engineering"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the same time, we had very good quality 3d chemistry modeller. it consisted of a bunch of sacks, with colored spheres with holes correctly planarly inclined, and plastic sticks.
mircea_popescu: turns out there's NOT THAT MANY possible atomic states.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, see, what you call "unwieldy" is the very quality of the item in question. that is it's true value.
mircea_popescu: to protest its carnality is as protesting cunt's sliminess. it's "unwieldy" specifically because it works well.
mircea_popescu: your head will fall out through your arsehole if you attempt to meaningfully interact with something as large as to make that thing collapse into degenerate matter through a "3d visor" color interferer thingee.
mircea_popescu: i tell you honestly, if i ran a lab where such a compound was seriously important, i'd spend the 100k or w/e it is to have a model welded out of steel balls and rods, and place it in the lab gym.
mircea_popescu: let all the bright minds monkey swing from the fucking thing until they fall over.
mircea_popescu: i don't get why they can't simply use a mirror / scintillator / something.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 01:22 asciilifeform: incidentally much noise was made re the elaborate calculations of early nukes, but good chunk of the design params ~also~ only were accessible empirically. hence the slotin incident.
mircea_popescu: while the former is actually true, the latter doesn't follow, it's not like he had to use the beryl for a soup bowl.
mircea_popescu: you telling me slotin was a sort of curie jr, had "no idea what could occur" ?
BingoBoingo: Putting on a lab coat doesn't make a monkey hygenic
mircea_popescu: yeah... you know i used to do the old thumb-stopper thing... until i noticed i got spots.
mircea_popescu: by the time your evening's entertainment is screwdriver-juggling neutron reflectors, you've got some pretty serious pretentious issues going. i mean aestheticism is one thing, but by the time that's all that's left...
mircea_popescu: meanwhile on the other side, "About me I love the X Files and Criminal Minds. I'm studying Cosmetology right now but next semester I am transferring to Psychology. "
mircea_popescu: sadly, their way to their butugychag is blocked by a bunch of shriveled old prunes decked in star trek paraphenalia.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's an actual thing in the sense "black world order" is a thing
mircea_popescu: sui generis. there's a whorde of these cosmetologists with aspirations, populating what's left of the human side of usg's "ugc" lines, filling up the "journalist" pipelines, camwhoring etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this particular one entirely unfuckable, tiny tits an' a belly. but in general, idiots have ~no chance of making it through anyway, so can't say as i have.
BingoBoingo: "I like being treated like a princess and fucked like a slut." << The anglophone girl problem. They think they want to hold the power, but they know they want the power imposed on them when it counts.
mircea_popescu: i do recall in youth was a lot less selective/priviledged, whichever way you look at it ; but somehow inexplicably stupidity not nearly as organised or militant in same youth. i mean, fuck, girls back then were ASHAMED to sit with the mainstream, jesus fuck.
mircea_popescu: so i guess i switched historical priviledge for social priviledge as i aged.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, two decades of child abuse organized for her by Disney
mircea_popescu: can't say that there's what to dispute this view with, that they've failed to meaningfully individuate.
mircea_popescu: well, if hillary had her way they'll all be "social "workers" coming up with rules an' regulations for each other.
mircea_popescu: as it is... i dunno, i suspect they'll starve, orange man doesn't seem inclined to continue the slop.
mircea_popescu: but for instance i have standing orders for 0 tolerance and active harassment / belittling and sabotage of them by my girls, whenever encountered (which mostly is receptionists, but hey)
BingoBoingo: If UruguArgenZuela is illustrative they'll fad their way into avoiding starvation with "coliving" and food "recollection"
mircea_popescu: rapidly becoming the social pariah, this cosmetologist princess-psychologist.
mircea_popescu: principally because they're so easy to filter them out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you kidding me ? the species is found anywhere samsung put "smart"phones on layaway.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: at last 1/3 of the pichis here have pnoHes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, generally parents content to "not understand" offspring and "feed, anyway"
mircea_popescu: this is pretty fucking amusing to me, too. "oh, i don't understand the kids... and this is my problem". bitch... if i don't understand them i don't feed them, this "you don't understand me" is just about "tomorrow, i die", naught else. let them fucking work ass off to be understood, wtf, you want me to do it ?!
mircea_popescu: vaguely reminescent of occasional fetard going "i don't know you" / occasional moron going "this trilema article is too long and complicated for my understander".
mircea_popescu: the expectation that a breakdown in communication is a stable state better come with a baked-in expectation of 0 financial flows, wtf.
mircea_popescu: could a very shitty battery meltdown and fuck the rk then ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll add it to the ask list when I make the rounds to the shops
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2014-08-30 23:24 mircea_popescu: i have a glass table and an optic mouse.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i was looking for the story of the mouse chewing at the jar lid hole with his tiny teeth
mircea_popescu: fat people can't find their feet ; but i'm so overweight i can't find my fucking stories.
a111: Logged on 2014-09-07 17:02 mircea_popescu: something like that. so one night while in here, i see movement in the corner of my eye
BingoBoingo: So, total lunar eclipse balcony view. Pretty cool, but lacks the magic of solar totality.
BingoBoingo: Well, I used a compass and a map to determine I didn't have to go anywhere special to see it and thus it was seen
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it's partial here, and i'm on the wrong side of teh hill momentarily.
BingoBoingo: I'd go out of my way to see a total solar eclipse again, very strong inducement of wonder. Lunar well... not so much
BingoBoingo: And the moon going into and out of totality isn't the shocker that the sun is. At least not when artificial lighting is involved.