asciilifeform: if i understand correctly the ad-chumpatron , these 200 will be paid in 'coupon good to buy ads yourself' or other 'iou'
asciilifeform: i genesised 5000ln+ of fucking asm!! last month. and scarcely expect that anyone will read, aside maybe from mp_en_viaje's gurlz as a punishment detail. but it has to be done.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's logger intended moar as ice breaker ship, to make the subj navigable, than final solution. and 'final' -- as already detailed by mp_en_viaje -- would be a constellation of heterogeneous items that know how to speak a common sync, operated by diff people.
asciilifeform: i dun so much suffer from anxieties, but would like folx to know that currently asciilifeform built not proper wall, but the kind portrayed in mp_en_viaje's old ro piece where 'builder stands and holds up'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: no, i get. but i dun have a squad of people who will immediately report ' asciilifeform broke leg, is in ditch ' . have 1, who is trained to report -- if doesn't simultaneously break leg/neck with asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: i admit, i half-expected mp_en_viaje to pick up his skepter and declare 'this here is only working logger atm, and the breaking turd is a uniturd from bot, let errybody else lose the 6lines'
asciilifeform: i'ma fix the uniturdism in coming days. and diddle the log as described by mp_en_viaje . but when next net split, or bot eventually falls (no one afaik has yet written/hosted bot that did not fall at least erry 6wks ) we will have to revisit the wat-do
asciilifeform: the whole q reduces to gossipd, as mp_en_viaje pointed out already. atm we're attempting to hand-crank gossipd.
asciilifeform: depending on what means 'stable' mp_en_viaje could be right.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: phuctor running since '13 on it.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not married to a particular set of junkyard wrecks out of what people to make loggers. but the solution has to be reasonably automatic, or e.g. asciilifeform for the rest of his days will be doing nuffin but munging db, and it ~still~ won't be satisfactorily correct
asciilifeform: which is why i put in raw-export, db dump (0 hrs / daily newyork time) etc
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to make argument 'eh i have drinking to do , rather than sync logs'. but if it takes fleanode 100msec to make a split, and asciilifeform -- 5min to fix it, this is not tenable to maintain promise of 'ultimate log'
asciilifeform: ideally 'canonical' log imho would live in the rack under mp_en_viaje's throne. is how historically this sorta thing worx
asciilifeform: suppose asciilifeform , mp_en_viaje , and BingoBoingo , all ended up on 1 side of netsplit.
asciilifeform: the other side of this, is q of 'what is canonical log' . i.e. is it mp_en_viaje's terminal (runs for 3-4 hrs / d ? and where did not even notice index off, asciilifeform had to notice and ring alarm ) ? asciilifeform's term ? (runs 24/7, but down for maybe 10min / yr ) ? or dulap 's ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re the log indices, there's a deeper q, that i'd like to lay out and ask mp_en_viaje to actually take halfhr+ to think about, with brain in full throttle, before answering, cuz it is very easy to spec this in such a way that asciilifeform's (or anyone's) pair of hands will not in fact be long enuff or fast enuff to handle
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i considered also to put 'delta' integer column in the db, specifically for this.
asciilifeform: ( and is why i baked the 'raw export' knob, ideally this is to be semi-automated , i.e. logger operators oughta be able to look, compare to e.g. own local log, and resync if agree )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: yer right : e.g. http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-8-14#479080 vs http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-14#1928706
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm still waiting to hear from e.g. ben_vulpes re what he did when bot fell down, to sync the indices with phf's
asciilifeform: can easily do this, but does mp_en_viaje want ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'fix the refs' as in, modify stored lines ?
asciilifeform: these are complete other than the uniturd-containing emissions by lobbesbot. but result is that the numeration has diverged. ( we already discussed q of whether such divergence is 100% preventable in light of fleanode, tho , but inconclusively )
asciilifeform: bot ate 100% of phf's log in testing phase w/out losing lines. but lobbes in fact discovered uniturds that break py's eater. i'ma implement the fix described by phf , but the q will remain re what, if anyffin, to do re the in-between.
asciilifeform: i'ma not attempt to do anyffin about this unless mp_en_viaje says specifically what ought to.
asciilifeform: former -- 'success', a la 'lamp. latter -- 'failure', i guess
asciilifeform: there was a 1990s piece re how chumps walk into ameri-'hardware store' and buy 'contractor-grade!111' plasti-tools that fall apart after 5 uses
asciilifeform: i recall a mp_en_viaje piece where explained which parts of vacuum cleaner are best for this
asciilifeform: well guesswat. surrounded by microshit (with crapple as hand-puppet) lymphocytes, digested, shat out.
asciilifeform: here's another somewhat obscure example of the progression. recall in 1990s there were 9000 makers of pocket comps ? the kind could pull out on train and type into. all but 1 such, ended up in thralldom to microshit, and packaged (in rom!) winblowz 'ce', abominable liquishit, but somehow '100% market dominant'. the 1 holdout was a brit outfit, 'psion' . i have 1 here in torture room, it has better responsiveness than most pc ! the re
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: already found bugs using it !
asciilifeform: so, to return to thrd, historically when tree grows through pavement 'successfully', a la lamp, the naggumocalypse is not far, eventually around tree is built 'city park', with 'rules & regulations', 9000 idlers & hobos with imagined 'rights' etc
asciilifeform tempted to make these bidirectional, it's entirely doable deterministically
asciilifeform: asciilifeform was drawn into bitcoin (specifically as portrayed by mp_en_viaje ; was never in the tardstalk forum , and [in fact quite cold to the subj][http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939] until encountered mp_en_viaje ) specifically because appeared, to asciilifeform , to be the 1st known instance of a successful defense against the 1-5 rot progression .
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje had a piece ( where is it, grr ) where '1) actual people make a thing 2) herd finds it 3) herd 'also wants' 4) herd 'regulates', 'manages' 5) actual-people pack it ...' etc
asciilifeform: ( and , lol, then 'mumps' will be overrun and die in 3-5 yrs and the old men will go, some to 'cluck' at ms sql , others to bottle )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if i find a piece by actual human being on subj, will post.
asciilifeform: ever hear of e.g. 'mumps' ?
asciilifeform: to pile on the upstack thrd tho : lamp, as i see it, was linux's great ~calamity~. w/out rise of www, linux (or, moar likely, the bsd's) would have stayed small, obscure ( like many of the other systems asciilifeform worked with , that actually work and mp_en_viaje never heard of, or heard of strictly in 'facebookized' variants ) but... working. i.e. remained a green shoot in the pavement, for however long .
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: unfuck split [ ] ? this is good idea imho
asciilifeform: 'lamp' and the influx of deskilled labour connected with its rise , is imho exactly basketball tumour, and succinctly summarized by naggum
asciilifeform: asciilifeform has somewhat atypical ( and to mp_en_viaje , grating ) pov re linux because was never wwwist (until voluntarily fell on this grenade for tmsr work) , instead earned bread for yrs on such things as ~non networked~ linux boxen where crunched numbers, drove eldritch machinery, etc
asciilifeform: all such exceptions, strictly temporary.
asciilifeform: the 'cluck' tech was not up to the level, just yet, of 'deskill AND still worx-well-enuff-for-the-chumps-to-eat'
asciilifeform: the capitalist of 1900 and the bureaucrat of 2000 have entirely common interest in deskilling ( skilled labour is poison , from pov of either ) and the underlying parts , whether computer or lathe or whatever, dun particularly matter, same pressure
asciilifeform: and from certain pov (e.g. scrap dealer's, who only melts it down) all the rusty carcasses in junkyard are ~exactlysame. but from pov of the folx who go in when mp_en_viaje asks 'build a tank by mid august' -- not quite same.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to defend individual pieces of the rusting junkyard from which built e.g. logger;
asciilifeform: goodnight(morning?) mp_en_viaje
asciilifeform: aha. and bins. try the db dump, same 'burst' pattern
asciilifeform: cache will do 0, the actual page gen in 'heavy' sample on py end takes 0.070s !
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i have no desire for 'improved apache', any more than for 'improved ms vb'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if yer happy to live with 'teletype' i'ma entirely happily leave it entirely alone
asciilifeform: i don't presently know why mp_en_viaje makes special pleading for apache et al to exempt'em from 'software is univerally shite'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: may well be doomed to write www serv before this is over.
asciilifeform: e.g. 'M' implements. in asm.
asciilifeform: depends what mean 'implement threading'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: ostensibly was supposed to impedance-match, buffer, filter ddosistic shenanigans, etc. but turns out -- double-edged
asciilifeform will walk lobbes 's uniturds hexdump tomorrow, after sleep, its 0130 here
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: utf16?!
asciilifeform: lobbes: my bot only echoes own loglines. as per traditional mp-given style.
asciilifeform: to the extent that the renderer worx, is because lifted from phf's (and massaged empirically)
asciilifeform: gotta say that mp was right in re front-end being tougher nut to crack than the bot
asciilifeform: put it through hexdump -C .
asciilifeform: in other noose, added simple knob to logotron that sends reader to (p)random line of selected chan.
asciilifeform: this ^ is simple means of testing the logger for folx not yet ready to stand up bot. e.g. : zcat dump.gz | psql -U nsabot -d nsalog will eat (assuming you already inited db w/ the provided schema)
asciilifeform: presently, weighs (compressed) ~23MB.
asciilifeform: attn panzers : whichever 1 of you is searching for 'cuts of the meat' -- that's in pre-dragon log, not yet imported.
asciilifeform now thoroughly stumped, ~all 3~ seem to show ~same 'time to first byte'
asciilifeform: aint nginx, apache, etc supposed to ~cure~ impedance mismatches, rather than cause'em...
asciilifeform: if this box weren't also running phuctor, could simply hang the logger on port 80 and get, theoretically, 200-300msec loads, loox like.
asciilifeform: via chromistic timer , get 1.40s for the heaviweight sample
asciilifeform: tried large buffers, no buffers, various tcpism knobs, no obv culprit for the impedance mismatch (what i suspect this is )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: possibly i did not elaborate , but on box's own shell, if viewing through ngx , fully 1-2s moar delay than if direct to port where py proggy
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: hm why graphic browser gives < 1s for same here ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: ty for the tool link, will try with it
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: log now also 1-2s here ( ~3 for the 'heavy' historic pg linked earlier )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: plox to try the 'heavy' log pgs, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927995
asciilifeform: dulap aint currently swamped with loads, either
asciilifeform: this is actually the interesting thing about multiprocesstronic proggies. as alluded to by spyked . the improbable -- is certain to eventually happen.
asciilifeform: *as simple
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'delete file', it isn't quite a simple, cuz fs ops are potentially locking. i elided what means 'wipe the cache' for brevity, but there's a knob.
asciilifeform dislikes pyistic libism , it spirals into insanity pretty quickly and makes testing / swaps of proggy on live box complicated
asciilifeform: currently they do work separately, if one were to tunnel the pgism. but mp_en_viaje has the point, that 'who knows if this even will ever be needed'
asciilifeform: whythefuck throw the bot's connection simply to change colour of wwwism etc
asciilifeform: re the 0x01 -- iirc these can't even occur in utf8! so prolly could simply filter'em out entirely
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928088 << i noticed the spurious 0x01, assumed it was py's utf heap o'rubbish improperly decoding. how do these appear from /me ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928085 << this loox like simple thing, will put into next patch
asciilifeform: achtung panzers : test of next ver of log www ; spyked you have the newtab thing ; mp_en_viaje you have the checkerboard (lemme know if would rather darker/lighter) ; asciilifeform gets http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log?rev=1 reversal
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc there was a trilema piece re argentards protesting a... bus stop
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: old noose, '82 iirc
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: near as i could tell, they were 'protesting' the theoretical non-reelection of obummer. vanished within coupla days of 2012 continuation in office.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: they had this in usa, massive public wank, 'occupy'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the 1 i actually went into, in timis, was in fact automated, like old arcades
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: a, assumed that 2000s was continuation of '90s, same folx
asciilifeform: prolly will remain 'teletype' until make caching mechanism per mp_en_viaje's algo (or rewrite in cl) whichever comes 1st
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: indeed, in fact 6s here.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: thinking about it, it's outgrowth of tcp retardation, where having the client alive costs the server at all times
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i meant specifically in re traditional irc
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: afaik we dun use these for anyffin
asciilifeform: while on subj of logger : mp_en_viaje do you still find that 'teletype' ? current ver is ~2x faster than 1st
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: tried to make 'new tab'ism go this morning, when spyked mentioned it, but it'll take some fiddling -- interacts poorly with the regexp-based link highlighting i used in this hasty drumhead logger. so prolly won't happen until much later.
asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje
asciilifeform: if mp_en_viaje et al have strong opinion on subj, i'ma make it a knob
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927817 << it's actually on the list, simply didn't make it into the 1st ver. asciilifeform for instance sometimes reads log on pnojes and similar keyboardless terminals, it is handy there.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927806 << 'mplayer' is all i have on most boxen (the ones which even have sound..)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927867 << this solves ~half~ of lobbes's riddle. observe that they work , when i throw'em in ( as well as all uniturds in phf's and diana_coman's dumps , imported w/out issue )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, the 'chi non piscia in compagnia' anon in mp's comments apparently has this as his www ...
asciilifeform: ^ example, 1980s swedish item where process migration and realtime redundant computation on multiple irons supposedly worked
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm starting to think, that asciilifeform is doomed to write a www server
asciilifeform: ( there's no ~logical~ reason for it not to work, it's quite evidently Right Thing; simply happened that all the heathen utils for the job, were liquishit )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje iirc was defo a #t article
asciilifeform: i quite distinctly recall that it didn't work worthashit, and mp_en_viaje smashed a keyboard or 2
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: what was it you had last tried, iirc 'squid' ?
asciilifeform: rly there oughta be a apache-end util for this, but iirc mp_en_viaje actually went an' tried 9000 of'em and all were duds
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this gets sticky. if knobs (incl. my multiline-select knob) suddenly yer disk cache dun do you good
asciilifeform: theoretically this is Right Thing, mp_en_viaje . only headache is that 'flask' etc shitshow doesn't offer any path to it.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: so when does the proggy regen the x-y-z.html on disk ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: say i reply to yesterday's line from mp_en_viaje . nao the cached copy of yesterday's log is logically invalid (dun have the backlink to today's reply)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i actually have cache, simply snipped out of genesis ver, need a few moving gears to invalidate it on 'tail' ('current') page of log when someone speaks
asciilifeform: this was deliberate, so can work with e.g. a temporarily-disconnected znc on the other end
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: correct; current bot actually makes no attempt to determine whether in fact fleanode is on other end, or 'netcat' and silence
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: aha, this oughta suffice
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'ma have to add this, to the bot, else it cannot be considered automatic
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: tho i suppose this is already enuff to litmus whether in-$chan or not
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: dun seem to work when used on chan that you aint in
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this only worx when in a chan neh
asciilifeform: i'd like to continue it here, if mp_en_viaje dun object
asciilifeform: lobbes, mp_en_viaje : did feedbot actually emit irc lines in #e ? cuz i'm not seeing either http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-03.log.html#t14:41:25 or http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-06.log.html#t16:55:36 or http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-07.log.html#t19:00:04 in mine ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc it was a redditism (dunno whether had own reddit pit) , meme, 'lay down and rot' (i.e. what to do when yer goose is cooked but not yet gathered courage to eat pistol)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: was a #t piece
asciilifeform: diana_coman: example : 1925698;1564503441;*;asciilifeform not up to date on subj
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to match phf's format, i'ma then snip out the imported tape and re-eat
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: ikr!
asciilifeform: tryin' to picture why someone would attempt nontrivial proggy in 'bash'. 1 traditional reason is that yer writing a worm.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i suppose for 'olympiad' could attempt 'irc client in bash' via 'telnet' rather than netcat
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: you'd choke from laff if you knew what ~else~ can be found on shithub.
asciilifeform tried, while schoolboy, to write 'B' compiler in awk...
asciilifeform historically found that any bashism that attempts a nontrivial stateful thing, in practice breaks teeth against nonstandard platformisms ('hey grep dun eat -blah on linux circa 2003' etc) and ends up working only where written
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if in fit of pique you write bash logbot, i promise to read
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at one time asciilifeform wrote sometimes stateful multi-page proggies in bash. but does not post these, it was war crime
asciilifeform: comp. w/ awk, sed.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'vdiff' was, 2015-2018, a bash 1liner..
asciilifeform: atm timestamp is only useful to group into days.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i found that stock znc also stores only hour/min. and the historic timestamps being what they are, they are imho of rather questionable use.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: recall mao's 'airplane is paper tiger, soldier can't surrender to it'
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: actually in asciilifeform's head, archaetypical u.s. song is 'i am walrus'
asciilifeform: ... compare with su.
asciilifeform: example of usage for raw export :
asciilifeform: diana_coman: also let's do same for #e (right nao entirely empty..)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: loox delish
asciilifeform: ( the log lines sit down monotonically always. the only use currently for the timestamp is the calendarization cut into days )
asciilifeform: imho monotonicity moar important in the timestamp than strict alignment w/ whatever zone.
asciilifeform: i'd rather not spend megabux on heathen hosters, but to put ~all~ in 1 cage is to tempt fate
asciilifeform: ( how to multiline ? example in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1927070 . )
asciilifeform: there's an infamous legend from '80s from some comp center where a vt100 was found to be mysteriously defective, no one could log in. electricals found to be 100% proper, no one could say why. until someone noticed that the table it sat on was too low, and folx ended up ~looking at keys~ instead of keying 'blind'. and 2 letters were swapped...
asciilifeform: just about all types of transport moar complicated than pair of boots, require.
asciilifeform: aa, it's an example i always use with usa folx, they usually go 'aha'
asciilifeform: simply dun work in air
asciilifeform: ( naturally wont do anyffin for the historic timestamps, which are apparently rubbish )
asciilifeform: btw possibly i mentioned, but the historic timestamps are all over the place
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'date' thing fixed. did find that clock on the box has drifted by + ~40min (it dun 'ntp'ism or any such.) suppose ought to fix (and get then phf-style odd timestamps) or leave alone ?
asciilifeform: ( 'natural' reactions of untaught flyer, ~amplify~ spin )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'flask' is the py people's equiv. of 'hunchentoot'. eats the @app.route('/log/<chan>/<date>') etc sugars , does the 'html madlibs' thing on the 'templates' (a la 'cl-who') etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, it fell victim to the idjit internal wars b/w diff 'competing' golden toilet houses
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is difficult, tho perhaps not impossible, to picture someone who never heard of.. satellite
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, 1 of the more recent idjit fads in pnojeism etc is just this, 'augmented reality', where user is to try an' look at e.g. shops, roads, through peephole of pnoje, to see imaginary 'signs' imposed on the picture
asciilifeform: telex & friends have substantial wins over 'modern' -- broken telex can be repaired by sweaty d00d with screwdriver, and out of improvised parts. whereas what's it even mean to 'repair' e.g. pc, esp. in condition where the parts not even made outside of taiwan.
asciilifeform: nao, a general-purpose strings-and-streams-munging script lang ~might~ be worth implementing in ada.
asciilifeform: i suspect the glue for pg alone (i.e. if pg disgorges eggog, to produce proper ada-compat. exception, rather than crash), not to mention utf8ism, would weigh like ten ffa's
asciilifeform: this is the 'flip side of the medal' -- sometimes the given abstractions are not a good fit for $problem. picture e.g. attempt to ffa in commonlisp, where you'd have to bend over backwards to make sure you ~never~ cons
asciilifeform: nao if you throw out pg and sqlism, and make mmap-based db from 0... then possibly. but again goes back to '80% reimplementation of commonlisp' territory.
asciilifeform: this is not to say that 'impossible to logotron in ada', but that result will be 1) gargantuan 2) ~unreadable 3) likely buggy despite herculean effort
asciilifeform: so imho lost cause to try and calculate max size of page , even in such simple item as logotron
asciilifeform: bvt: imho it's just barely usable, and would defo benefit from rewrite in compiled lang where can turn knobs in realtime (i.e. cl)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926704 << i'ma put it in on next reset. loox like i'll have to adjust the www template tho, it's run, lol, outta horiz. space! in the chan bar.
asciilifeform: witness how yer box has 9000 half-broken 'soft' garbage collectors (sometimes running in impedance-mismatch ~against~ one another) instead of 1 working iron-powered gc, etc.
asciilifeform: the 'pc micro revolution' popularized an imho extremely braindamaged concept of what is 'comp lang'. specifically, where folx think that the front syntax is somehow logically glued to the internal mechanics ( whereas is merely happenstance, pc provides such broken bedrock abstractions that forces erry new lang author to write compiler 'from 0' as if year were 1959, but this is merely happenstance, rather than logical inevitability )
asciilifeform: i defo saw impressive storm of packets when was testing the bot locally.
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm)
asciilifeform: the former would cost like FG; the latter... erry year or so i go an' dig, so far to end up empty-handed
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926645 << if were actually 'cheap', already would have baked. possibly i did not explain the subj properly. mips is 'cheap' in terms of ~time~ , it is a classic and very compact design with existing compiler support. but to bake physical asic (on practical scale, rather than 'here's 5 dies that maybe-work for 5k ea. and we hope you know how to solder gold wire under microscope' -- re
asciilifeform: and oh hey missed http://qntra.net/2019/08/imperial-anti-v-unveiled-eat-more-star-topology/
asciilifeform: tho as i understand no timestamp is likely to match, so would have to diff with 'meld' or some other 'smart' differ
asciilifeform: lobbes: 1 good test for your znc eater, would be to eat some zncade that's already reflected in phf's dump, and see whether matches.
asciilifeform: lobbes: i 'cheated' by recycling components from front-end of phuctor, admittedly.
asciilifeform: ( resets impose approx 1min of down time. )
asciilifeform: PeterL: in order to actually attempt to 'fit in head' the barbaric protocol, i wrote bot on naked sockets, instead of using whatever-lib
asciilifeform: for completeness, the www end, in case asciilifeform gets sepsis before gets to genesis. and example config (config is common to both proggies, give it on cmdline)
asciilifeform: and prolly not useful when we jump fleanode.
asciilifeform: initially i considered to have two-headed bot, with a slave who is kept around strictly if master falls. but this not implemented yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^ is good example, paginator not in there yet
asciilifeform: ( rationale was, there are chans where folx speak erry coupla days or so, and handy to be able to jump back immediately w/out flipping pages )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re synced-loggers -- i sat for whole day thinking about this, but in the end came to same conclusion as mircea_popescu , i.e. that it is moar complicated than appears, fleanode will liberally reorder lines
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not easy to picture how might fuck up ocr pistol, but i suppose not impossible
asciilifeform: nao in re mechanicals -- bot is written from 0 using bare sockets. www end and bot eat a common config, there are nomoar 'magic' constants in the proggy. so it will be pretty simple to set up mirrors after genesis, if anyone is up to it
asciilifeform: at this pt, seems quite evident that someone is throwing around crafted wedge chains (i.e. mined after-the-fact , with backdated timestamp, going from older block) specifically to wedge syncing folx.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje et al : ^ pretty nasty , surprised no one has observed this effect before.
asciilifeform: *dumpblock
asciilifeform: of erry 20 folx that ask re 'my trb stopped at block B', 19 problem is impatience.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'mailinator', 'gmx', etc spamtraps still afaik work
asciilifeform: reason why 3 decade of 'apache' is same as why erryone (incl. microshit) is using that SAME tcp stack from berkeley '80s. cuz protocol was deliberately made so braindamaged, with literally 10,000+ moving parts, that ~impossible to correctly reimplement if demanding compat with 'everyone'
asciilifeform: the only conceivable reason why httpism lived (for 3!! fucking decades) is cowardice. 'oh noez, couldn't tell reader to install sane browser, MUST compat with internet-exploder' etc
asciilifeform: it is far from proven that it could not be substantially improved on. but afaik a) only along the axis of bw economy b) at substantial expense in re moving parts.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: there are actually coupla dozen (that asciilifeform knows of) schemes similar in scope to luby's -- i picked his simply cuz a) works b) minimal complexity
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: btw this is another application where box with FG wins -- generating fast-converging luby frags
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: hunchentoot is known to run on e.g. sbcl, ccl , where compiled.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: cl (aside from egregiously retarded incarnations, e.g. gnu's) aint interpreted, lol
asciilifeform: imho if stuck with ugly piece of shit, would still rather have one w/out the nulltermstring, buf overrun, offbyone, etc. bugola. but i see mp_en_viaje's pt
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at one time in '17 asciilifeform tried hand at writing basic ada www server. ended up burning it all. because ended up looking quite like 'hunchentoot', and quite evidently 'water took the shape of the bottle', i.e. inescapably
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i was only able to eat w/out choking because already, decade+ ago, had read 'hunchentoot' an' barfed
asciilifeform: shrysr: mp_en_viaje's orig item worx 100% errywhere (that i've tried)
asciilifeform: 'Note taken on <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2019-07-31 Wed 09:17] </span></span> <br /> <span style="background-color:#d3d3d3" id="select">Summary: By my estimate</span>, I have spent 6-8' << oughta display anywhere
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lol i have'em moar 'classically' modeled as simply 'beggar' energy level
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i thought progression were more usually e.g. x -> y -> rapper -> p -> q -> beggar rather than x -> beggar -> y
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: also their pw reset mechanism is broken, i've been trying to log in & cancel acct for 3+ yrs nao (erry 6mo or so) and been to their india-powered 'support line' even. no dice.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: they send spam like it's 1999 lol
asciilifeform: ^ i.e. there are at least ~4~ successive impedance-mismatched layers of liquishit , if you count ~server~ (e.g. hunchentoot) . ~5~ if you count reader's browser !
asciilifeform: tcp was a 'gift' of profound retardation that 'keeps on giving', even to moar obvious extent than e.g. unix. it is single-handedly responsible for ~100% of the backbreaking complexicrud of apache, ssh, ftp, etc
asciilifeform: spyked: imho your 'hunchentoot' vivisection illustrates important point : just how much of the complexity of that thing is on acct of idjit tcpism's shit abstractions, i.e. the lengths to which it goes to pretend that the machines aint exchanging short packets in quasi-reliable ordering
asciilifeform: spyked: can pleeeez haz comments on your www ? ( at the risk of repeating mp_en_viaje's , srsly, 'no comment box' is quite discouraging in re reading)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: thinkin' moar re the 'monkeys' -- imho these were the folx continuing to build dec clones , crapples & other micros, and in the inevitable march to microshit hell. rather than the bolix/lmi folx. these, imho, did Right Thing. (even if ended by plugging embrasure with torso)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: what even is the meaning of 'stealth ship' given satellite, cheap networked sonobuoys, etc ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: where, in your analysis, was the man, and where -- the monkey ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925809 << recall mussolini's 'get as much value from it right now before it's worthless completely' of ww1 gas in ethiopia ? i suspect this is exactly today's 'stealth'
asciilifeform: tho possibly i get the implication in BingoBoingo's piece, where what utility the thing has, will be spent, 'pushing up difficulty'. but afaik this is entirely incidental to the process that produced the thing, and its predecessors/successors, process that has ~0 to do with utility, prospective or otherwise
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje had a piece where illustrated this using 'whore vs. princess wife'
asciilifeform: that kernels is an exact equiv. of http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-arent-two-antipsychotics-better-than-one-the-most-important-article-on-psychiatry-part-3-adnotated/#identifier_2_86297 . and prolly born via exactly analogous process.
asciilifeform: e.g. 29MB of simply include .h crapola .
asciilifeform: for completeness : 'drivers' subtree weighed 323M ; 'arch' (machine-specifics) : 126M; leaving a 176M (quite evenly spread across remainder) .
asciilifeform: the sheer magnitude of the bloat, is impressive even vs. microshit's (iirc 'win2k' kernel src weighed ~300M)
asciilifeform: to port the kernel to 'M', asciilifeform ended up having to read pretty good chunk of the arch/mips subtree, and it was comparatively small -- still bucket of sweat.
asciilifeform: and somehow i imagined (based on thin air) that silicoimplant comes with set of fitting covers
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925619 << i've been seeing these for years nao. they're all contemptible scams, incidentally: profit model is that shit student ~pays~ to test for 'accidental' plagiarism , so that homework won't set off detector when his prof tests
asciilifeform: this incidentally is 9000x simpler than pc's page table. but still quite inconvenient under emulation (vs. physical iron, where it's a o(1) content-addressed ram lookup )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-29#1925549 << for extra thrd-completeness : portrait of typical tlb state.
asciilifeform: ( phunphakt: 1980s mipsen not only crashed, but would actually ~smoke~, if 2 identical tags! they had ultra-simplistic dual-ported sram as the table, would result in short circuit ! )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-29#1925370 << i oughta formalize the maffs problem , on the off chance that a log reader might want to attempt it via some oddball method (e.g. radix search) :
asciilifeform: iirc we had at least 1 thread re fact that pc is ~monstrously~ inefficient in re rsa, and even very simple custom ic, on batteries would massively win over 'bleeding edge' x86
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: ftr asciilifeform is of same position on 'where to rsa' as in 2013 -- ideally get it the hell off the pc.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: atm folx use entire lappies (iirc there's a mp photo w/ same) for the job. so even the pictured item would be substantial improvement re portability.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: why transmit the key over the (potentially loud) serial ? rsa in the box.