Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2019-08-10 | 2019-08-12 →
mp_en_viaje: so im sitting here on balcony after breakfast, watching the girly joggers file around the building, when suddenly "wtf is that plane doing ?! and why is it coming this way ?!"
mp_en_viaje: something was definitely amiss, there's no commercial path this way, but thia airliner spent a minute or so driving straight towards us.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 16:55:24 lobbes: << my process was indeed downloading the archived zips. I still have the data, though the archiver iron has been disconnected during my physical move to a saner location. This weekend I will get that iron back online and archiving
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 22:19:18 asciilifeform: << the back/fwd links a la phf ? defo will go in (i'm aiming for 100% feature parity) but some time after the raw-export and similar knobs aimed to make redundant-backup installs easier
mp_en_viaje: << this was part and parcel of the original "make bots" decision, back in the day.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 22:32:08 asciilifeform: logger prolly a notbad test.
mp_en_viaje: it's a approachably non-trivial, multiply useful task.
feedbot: << Trilema -- Etude en foodes
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: loox delish
mp_en_viaje: hehe ya
diana_coman goes to check if there's any Chec left for photos and all that jazz
deedbot: accepted: 1
diana_coman: asciilifeform: deeded copy of #ossasepia log ^
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman , will eat
diana_coman: thank you!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: eaten!!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz post, when you have time, the converter you used
asciilifeform: i'd like to fill up #a, #p
asciilifeform: diana_coman: also let's do same for #e (right nao entirely empty..)
asciilifeform: spyked : how about #s .
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! logotron tree updated with 1) raw-line export knob 2) debug knob that actually turns off (prev. had mistake where it remained forever active)
asciilifeform: example of usage for raw export :
asciilifeform: currently set to disgorge max of 500 ln. in one pageload; but is adjustible.
asciilifeform: diana_coman et al ^ and for anyone who is thinking of running mirrors !!
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell trinque << Fellow from earlier indeed appears to have his private key. When you get a chance to, please swing by #pizarro to see if you can help him debug his issue decrypting deedbot strings to !!v.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 13:09:14 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: here is a re-encrypted copy of the encrypted message you sent me earlier as evidence I have the private key:
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: btw the debug knob fix appears to speed up by 50% or so
asciilifeform: (previously thing was pretty busy barfing raw sqlisms to 'nohup'...)
asciilifeform: e.g. is still ~1.7s vs phf's 0.1 . but still sumthing.
BingoBoingo: << Seems to support yesterday's end of aviation thread. Maybe by 2050 the 12 passenger cargo ship returns.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 09:24:30 mp_en_viaje: something was definitely amiss, there's no commercial path this way, but thia airliner spent a minute or so driving straight towards us.
BingoBoingo as child yet to see kindergarden had a favorite book. Included all sorts of aircraft. The only ones I remember with certainty were the SR-71, A-10, flying radar picket, and the loser F-4 that didn't even have a gun while pretending to be a fighter.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: f4 , going by period accounts, had the mega-'feature' where had several modes of spin that were 'unrecoverable' , i.e. if(spin) catapult_now !
asciilifeform: 'disposable' machine
BingoBoingo: Sounds like as good of a reason as any to start pushing a "fighter of the future don't need guns" meme
asciilifeform: 'Вижу в небе белую черту, / Мой "Фантом" теряет высоту, / Катапульта - вот спасенье, / И на стропах натяженье,/ Сердце в пятки, в штопор я иду.'(tm)(r)('fantom', cult '80s ru item re subj)
asciilifeform: 'Вижу я как Эдвард с Бобом / Вдруг пошли встречаться с богом / Вижу ноль семнадцать на борту.' ( 'then i see, that Ed and Bob, went off to meet up with God, on the clock i see 0-17.' )
asciilifeform: i find it interesting that there appear to be 0 popular songs/rhymes about flying in usa, such that would post-date ww2
asciilifeform: in ru, '9000', and starring erry possible kind of flyer, from old man baron richthofen to 'somewhere far away is my native texas' fella above flying f4, to... whoever
BingoBoingo: Gotta understand, US is largely German and misc. other serfs by mass. When the US needs a song to set to aviation footage they use Jesus stuff like Greenbaum's "Spirit In The Sky"
asciilifeform: why is it then that luftwaffe had dozen songs, and usa started an' stopped with 'wing and prayer' circa 1942 ?
BingoBoingo: Because Germany kept the good Germans
BingoBoingo: When Germany sold cheap labor to US farmers in the 18th century they didn't send them cultured.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect deeper problem. somehow subj lost appeal in 'civilized' world... as a boy i dun think i met one single boy who did not at least on boy level wish he could become a jet pilot
asciilifeform: it was ~equiv of current-day usa's 'be rock star'
asciilifeform: maybe, defending motherland from demented martians is appealing, but strafing half-naked half-apes in jungle, desert, not so appealing ?
BingoBoingo: Well, the couple that I know who did the Air ROTC and get to piloting ended up flying fat freight planes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in asciilifeform's extended meatwot, there's a fella who signed up for this. flew in iraq, today -- hobo
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's reason to suspect that usa air corps dropped standards. even asciilifeform ( who was never remotely athlete, or otherwise suspected of qualifying for the work ) has , in dusty files from freshman yr of uni , paper spam from u.s. af, 'pleez consider sign up, guaranteed flight instruction!' etc
snsabot: Logged on 2017-11-30 18:15:59 a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 18:28 asciilifeform: gymnasts may not be perfect example. when you have a role where the training per se is costly, you're stuck picking. e.g., pilots; i recently read a quite interesting autobio, 'Обречены на подвиг' ('condemned to heroism', roughly) by su flying d00d / instructor / colonel. described how children having any physical imperfection, even tooth cavity, were mercilessly rejected from flight academy even if they passed all of
snsabot: Logged on 2017-11-30 18:04:55 asciilifeform: today jet man is more or less a programmer with uncommonly unpleasant working condition.
BingoBoingo: "Guaranteed flight instruction" does not mean "fly our planes for us". It means "here are some waivers for a civilian general aviation course"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i did not show up to where the spam asked, so do not know. but suspect that the whole orchestra is hard up for literate folx:
BingoBoingo: Many of the mid-sized midwestern universitits have "aviation" courses for eating the ROTC folk's "guaranteed flight instruction" buxx
asciilifeform: ... one time there was a sort of show at the uni, 'rotc' corps brought some old (vietnam?) artillery pieces. i walk up to one , the cranks -- surprisingly -- oiled, start to aim it at uni admin bldg. sargeant : 'they forbid us from permitting audience to touch these! but pleeeez come to the base, you can play with it all you like! and wontcha consider to sign up ???'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw i pictured 'guaranteed instruction!' as, you come to the class and 'guarantee' at least will get to play 'f19' for coupla hr
BingoBoingo: The folks I knew who went pilot did the lessons. The one I talked to more was constantly stressed, because only so many of the folks taking lessons and flying prop planes from Murphysboro, Illinois to Pinckneyville, Illinois and back would get the opportunity for further instuction on flying things that would earn them a bunk and meals.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in current era, it's a work that has all of the appeal of those safari tours where you shoot tame lion
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Honda now makes and markets owner-operator jet with the motors mounted like in Star Trek. Notably absent are dorks wearing their fantsuits and lined up to buy them
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's so novel re the pictured machine ? my ride from bucharest to timis was in a tub that looked quite like this, only slightly larger
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and incidentally a 'greyhound'-type bus costs nao about 1mil.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The novelty is in jets above wing and made by the folks who produce the "Honda supercub - most popular motor vehicle in history"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: honda makes errything from chainsaw to asciilifeform's old tub auto to steamer .
asciilifeform: it's 1 of those 'zaibatsu', was makin' samurai swords in 1700s, will be around in 2200s
mp_en_viaje: actually it is kinda funny ~only usian song subjects are either jaysus or else "Ashley. You 're a fuckin' bitch. You left me for a guy named Lance. Ashley. You 're really stupid. Cos I was saving up to take you to France. Yeah, I was gonna take you to France." variants
mp_en_viaje: nevermind fligjht, nevermind even something as simple as "stakhanov and his mighty pick"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: actually in asciilifeform's head, archaetypical u.s. song is 'i am walrus'
asciilifeform: i.e. ??!!!??
mp_en_viaje: i managed to go through ten years of trilema during which i found myself forced to reference french, italian, german, even canadian songs.
mp_en_viaje: but somehow, never usian.
BingoBoingo: Well, the thing is how they use the branding. Putting the Honda brand on it means mass market in the way VW meant mass market. Now here we are a century into powered flight and the mass market brand has a plane, but the mass market is even poorer than it was at the dawn of flight. No Honda Jet Airstrip in every gated subdivision.
asciilifeform: there are a coupla modern ditties with 'educational' bent, e.g. 'a scrub is a guy who'll get no luvv from me!'
mp_en_viaje: << i dunno, captive monkeys make as good fucktoys as any martians.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 14:49:24 asciilifeform: maybe, defending motherland from demented martians is appealing, but strafing half-naked half-apes in jungle, desert, not so appealing ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'mass market' != konsoomer. greyhound bus also 'mass market', how many folx on street know what it costs.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: the converter is awk one-liner but my logs were plain irssi (and the annoying bit was re time because hour:min only + day change only); still, if you think it may be of use, I'll post it, sure
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: recall mao's 'airplane is paper tiger, soldier can't surrender to it'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: defo of use, plz post.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i found that stock znc also stores only hour/min. and the historic timestamps being what they are, they are imho of rather questionable use.
mp_en_viaje: wowza, someone else adding bash oneliners to log, ftw!
asciilifeform: atm timestamp is only useful to group into days.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'vdiff' was, 2015-2018, a bash 1liner..
asciilifeform: comp. w/ awk, sed.
mp_en_viaje: i am personally very fond of the bash one liner. imo it is sheer bash-illiteracy that makes all sorts of crapolade like python even appear "useful"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If Honda Jet is not designed for hallucinated consumer market, why does it give the pilot "infotainment system", the marketing text is clearly targeted to pete_dushenski and not "Here is small jet for ad-hoc coverage of unpopular routes"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at one time asciilifeform wrote sometimes stateful multi-page proggies in bash. but does not post these, it was war crime
mp_en_viaje: in practice, the only difference is-- longer. 1-500 char bash one liners just as expressive, powerful, comprehensible/maintainable as 1-5k loc python chunks.
mp_en_viaje: items past 5k loc don't belong anyway.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if in fit of pique you write bash logbot, i promise to read
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, as a factual matter, all the couldjust as well been one-liners, for a combioned weight of 100kb rather than 100mb
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:32:19 mircea_popescu: << "After pressing you will need to run npm install from the project directory in order to pull down just under 100mb of depshits in order for this to work." top keks. left you a comment, too.
asciilifeform historically found that any bashism that attempts a nontrivial stateful thing, in practice breaks teeth against nonstandard platformisms ('hey grep dun eat -blah on linux circa 2003' etc) and ends up working only where written
asciilifeform still, incidentally, waiting for report from anyone re whether asciilifeform's logotron in fact worx somewhere other than where-written...
mp_en_viaje: nothing wrong with that.
mp_en_viaje: << turns out github has something that pretends to this
mp_en_viaje: in typical scam hub fashion a) calls perl b) piles of .jar
asciilifeform: calls perl << lol!!!
mp_en_viaje: "A simple, modular IRC bot written in bash"
mp_en_viaje: why the fuck are socialists such liars, anyway ?
asciilifeform tried, while schoolboy, to write 'B' compiler in awk...
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: you'd choke from laff if you knew what ~else~ can be found on shithub.
asciilifeform: there's this endless parade of 'this is brainfuck in intercal in microshit-buildscript' etc
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, << there, netcat frontend, loads no blobs.
asciilifeform: aaaha but call netcat!
mp_en_viaje: well yes.
asciilifeform: netcat is almost an adult prog lang by self.
mp_en_viaje: this is the true bashness of bash.
mp_en_viaje: "aaa but call awk" of course "but awk is basically all of lisp in braindamaged impl" yup.
asciilifeform: bash ~= bottle of epoxy.
asciilifeform: one ~could~ make sofa from epoxy, but... why
asciilifeform: ( edison, infamously, in his last yrs, was convinced that furniture from... ferrocement, is Teh Fyootoor )
mp_en_viaje: imo anyone who attempts to write bash irc bot other than netcat frontend either has nfi what the internet is and therefore never found netcat or has nfi what bash is and therefore doesn't understand why you don't do anything ~in~ it.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i suppose for 'olympiad' could attempt 'irc client in bash' via 'telnet' rather than netcat
mp_en_viaje: telnet blows
asciilifeform has buncha scripts from yrs ago that resemble this
mp_en_viaje: and has, since like 1989
asciilifeform: blows but it's on 'vax' circa '86 , and yer sgi 'octane' etc, and 'netcat' aint
mp_en_viaje: you seriously hack on anything w/o netcat running ?
asciilifeform: not in last decade+ lol
mp_en_viaje: so then wtf are we talking about!
asciilifeform: tryin' to picture why someone would attempt nontrivial proggy in 'bash'. 1 traditional reason is that yer writing a worm.
asciilifeform: (i.e. want run-anywhere-that-gives-shell)
mp_en_viaje: "oh but mp, you bash via screen" yes ? "for olympiad, bash via trepanation" how about you bash your mother via anal hooks instead.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: there's no link for next day on the imported bits (or uhm, can't quite tell where/why?) ; e.g. has no link although there is ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: will find out why
asciilifeform: diana_coman: fixed, will cut errata patch
diana_coman: ftr, here's my quick'n'dirty awk that did the trick: awk '/Day changed/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$7;}! /-|<--|>/ {count++; sep=";"; w= Year " " Month " " Day " " $1 " " $2 " 00"; if ($3 == "*") {pp=$3 sep $4; $4=""; n=5;} else {pp=$3; n=4;}; $1=""; $2=""; $3=""; print count+998966 sep mktime(w) sep pp sep substr($0,n);}'
diana_coman: worth noting that the month was at least numerical rather than "jul" and all that
diana_coman: the 998966 above is lazy-hardcoded, calc based on asciilifeform's first id and the total lines in my log (i.e. so that the ids match perfectly *before* his log)
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, wd!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: tree updated.
asciilifeform: and on dulap.
diana_coman: heh, it was...cathartic like that, awk-one-liner-does-the-job after ps-ton-does-nothing :))
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ty for the awk
diana_coman: np; thank you for the logger!
asciilifeform: it's still, i dare say, a quite barbarous logger. ( in coupla wks i expect we'll find out whether in fact asciilifeform cracked the riddle of fleanode socket barf, incidentally ) but imho beats shit out of 'maybe, we have loggers? on warm weather days?'
diana_coman: asciilifeform: barbarous or not, it's the only logger I have logging #ossasepia, you know?
asciilifeform: and with raw export knob i expect it will be relatively painless to bake 'dumb' mirrors ( Troo mirror imho really oughta have own bot !! )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i've been fucking fed up for year+ w/ having to beg people to 'pleez reset yer logger' etc
asciilifeform: incidentally this thread opens up ancient q, of whether it'd make sense to bake a 'tmsr distributed storage' item
asciilifeform: prolly would make moar sense to discuss 1nce we have luby/gossipd/etc
diana_coman: I suspect so; there's a shortage of building blocks, not as much of what to do with them
mp_en_viaje: there's actually a shortage of intelligent people who aren't also correspondingly dumb to balance it out.
mp_en_viaje: but i expect that'll be permanent.
asciilifeform: atm we're doing quite a bit of hand-cranked mirrorism for this. but ultimately would make moar sense to have mechanism where gns(....hash....) spits out ~always~ e.g. diana_coman's log tape, or logotron.vpatch, or whatnot, for so long as can reach ~any~ tmsr machine
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 14:26:45 deedbot:
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, word. the whole thing dovetails into another angle of whole gns thing indeed.
asciilifeform: ( and, ideally, w/out tcpism )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: ikr!
asciilifeform: keep in mind, this is ~ancient~ tech, i can connect to e.g. 'emule' net (somehow alive for 20y!!) and put in hash and get e.g. copy of DERIVE.EXE, same one i used in '96
diana_coman: asciilifeform: as I'm still nitpicking the log, was it expecting some space re * and action as this doesn't seem quite ok: ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-20 15:36:00 diana_coman;is: looking if shrysr is still breathing or totally shocked.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: phf's did not include space in 'nick;*;payload'
diana_coman goes to look in raw
diana_coman: asciilifeform: my tape has no space either
mp_en_viaje: yeah, emule still around, beats gopher for stability.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: lessee..
diana_coman: but it seems it took "diana_coman;is" as nick?
asciilifeform: this is indeed nogood, will have to find why
asciilifeform: diana_coman: found why.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you put ; after the nick
asciilifeform: and phf -- did not
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to match phf's format, i'ma then snip out the imported tape and re-eat
diana_coman: kk, will do
asciilifeform: (plz to also re-deedbot)
lobbes: << sheesh, I spent a total of 10 hours I'd say on that and diana_coman solves problem with one line of bash... wd indeed
lobbes: incidentally, asciilifeform, I was pretty close to completion (unicode problem solved, and index implemented). Was going to polish it off this evening and genesis but... is it even needed anymore?
lobbes: If not I'll turn my focus to something else
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 15:24:38 mp_en_viaje: i am personally very fond of the bash one liner. imo it is sheer bash-illiteracy that makes all sorts of crapolade like python even appear "useful"
asciilifeform delete from loglines where chan = 'ossasepia' and idx < 1000000; and will re-eat when given new
asciilifeform: diana_coman: example : 1925698;1564503441;*;asciilifeform not up to date on subj
asciilifeform: 1925392;1564372562;*;lobbes bbl, sleep
asciilifeform: i do not know how he conceived of this format, but i wrote 'eater' to eat it as-given
asciilifeform: when 'action' line, the nick ends up as 1st word of payload string, and where nick oughta be, have '*' .
spyked: <-- nah, ty. I'll consider this the beginning of history for #spyked and feed l0gz to my logotron when I'll stand up
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 13:38:57 asciilifeform: spyked : how about #s .
asciilifeform: spyked: aite!
asciilifeform: i kinda wonder why his raw log aint a sexpr
asciilifeform: ( disk space miser??? )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i gotta leave console for ~1h, will eat you reground log as soon as get back / is posted.
asciilifeform brb:teatime
spyked: <-- quite. and btw, to add to the hunchentoot thread, it can be easily adjusted while while running (hence my earlier change-class trick), so despite the ugly pythonesque systems code, it is lispy from a functional pov
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 12:55:26 asciilifeform: << not quite. if snsabot were a cl proggy, i would not need to restart it and lose connection to do knob turn.
diana_coman: meanwhile I actually found 1 instance I missed so I'll tweak a bit the awk (there's a "Log opened" instead of "day changed" and the timing/date there is also different so needs fixed)
diana_coman: updated script: awk '/Day changed/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$7;} /Log opened/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$10;} ! /-|<--|>/ {count++; sep=";"; w= Year " " Month " " Day " " $1 " " $2 " 00"; if ($3 == "*") {pp=$3 sep $4 " "; $4=""; n=5;} else {pp=$3 sep; n=4;}; $1=""; $2=""; $3=""; print count+998966 sep mktime(w) sep pp substr($0,n);}'
spyked: <-- one thing that most likely changed: they bought cars. traffic is a bitch even in that little town, even though it's entirely walkable in a few hours. granted, last time I was in MM was in 2007 and there weren't that many of them, but have only passed through viseu back then
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 17:03:43 mircea_popescu: spyked, holy shit, viseu' did not change AT ALL.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 21:53:03 asciilifeform: spyked , you are now live
mp_en_viaje: << whole imperial capital ships were repeatedly brought to knees by bash one liners, in elaborately publicly recorded bonfires, you missed all these ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 16:09:56 lobbes: << I'm learning this lesson painfully
mp_en_viaje: there's dozens for crying out loud.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 16:20:54 spyked: <-- quite. and btw, to add to the hunchentoot thread, it can be easily adjusted while while running (hence my earlier change-class trick), so despite the ugly pythonesque systems code, it is lispy from a functional pov
deedbot: accepted: 1
diana_coman: asciilifeform: take 2, format at action corrected ^
diana_coman: fwiw, I diffed the 2 and looked, couldn't find further issues; the nick is now indeed first word of payload when * is nick (on action); + the one case with messed up lines because of Day changed vs. Log opened is corrected too.
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: you actually improved my archive process with just such a bash one-liner. I still use it to this day to get around the 'cloudflare' crapola. But you know, 10 years spent in a pot-induced fog tends to make one miss the obvious. I'm working with a new brain these days
mp_en_viaje: welcome abroad lol.
diana_coman: lobbes: did you actually publish the archive process thing?
mp_en_viaje: you can always tell this story to any of the dorks explaining how drug usage "improves brain function"
mp_en_viaje: "oh, i just use it to relax, man". yeah, careful you don't manage to relax right off the deck.
lobbes: ty lol. And yes, I intend to. I think trinque has been on record saying the same
lobbes: diana_coman: I will once I get some of these other items out
lobbes: I figure I'm still going to publish my anyways. Make a blog post out of it as a nice example of "why python sucks and bash ftw" if anything
mp_en_viaje: better published than rot.
feedbot: << Trilema -- - Beer Goggling Isn't Natural and Being A Good Looking Girl Sucks From 9 To 5. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: eaten!!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-20 15:36:00 diana_coman: is looking if shrysr is still breathing or totally shocked.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: thank you! looks good and my nitpicker can't find anything anymore either.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: np. don't hesitate to add the eater as vpatch (can put in a e.g. 'contrib' subdir, update manifest) .
asciilifeform: i'd prefer to roll up all possible direct growths of the logotron into that tree
diana_coman: asciilifeform: do you mean that awk above or what is "the eater"?
asciilifeform: awk + brief 'how-to'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: my pov, is that would like to get all 'magick' the fuck out of logotronics.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 16:09:23 asciilifeform: ru army philosophy (inherited from sovok) holds that 'magic' is poison.
diana_coman: ah, ah; if you want it there, I can add it (tomorrow though), sure; meant to ask: why no author field in your manifest?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is legitimately an omission and feel free to fix
asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman already 1nce caught this and fixed, in ffa tree
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, anyone remember that azn restaurant reviewer dude who killed himself because his homebrew statistics indicated he'll never find twu wuv ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: was a #t piece
diana_coman: huh, I actually remember the azn guy + story but can't extract atm direct link, huh
mp_en_viaje: yes, but a name, anything ?
asciilifeform: !qs ldar
asciilifeform: iirc ^ in there somewhere
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, a banned reddit ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc it was a redditism (dunno whether had own reddit pit) , meme, 'lay down and rot' (i.e. what to do when yer goose is cooked but not yet gathered courage to eat pistol)
asciilifeform: iirc thread re the restaranteur was discussed then
asciilifeform brb:meat
mp_en_viaje: speaking of meat btw : isn't it lulzy that all the butthurt coverage of sagawa (typical) somehow omits to mention that since the dude didn't kill anyone again, a) it's very dubious confinement would have helped anything and b) by implication, it's not clear it's such a helpful thing in all the other cases, either.
mp_en_viaje: yay bvt scores! direct hit! tyvm!
lobbes: phew, well my pyturd eater is complete. Gonna eat about 4 years of #e logs for deeding, then genesis teh eater itself and publish
feedbot: << Trilema -- - Being The Main Character In Your Own TV Show Is Sort Of A Delusion. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: lobbes : 823160;1433446098;*;urov thought ??
asciilifeform: lobbes: and, e.g. 999999;1565204404;feedbot; << Ossa Sepia -- A Visit at the Recycling of War Artefacts Museum postdates the birth of the logger, so wai 999999 ?
deedbot: rejected: 1
lobbes: ah fuck. failures all around. Was working in testing. Back to workbench...
asciilifeform: and lol sig borked too ?
mp_en_viaje: bad hair day!
lobbes: it verified for me too, dunno why rejected...
asciilifeform: lobbes: hm is snsabot actually sitting in #e ? i aint tuned in myself, so nfi, maybe glitch ?!
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, indeed it id
asciilifeform: as expected. and apparently 0 lines since it tuned in
asciilifeform: so lobbes how did the diana_coman piece end up in there then
asciilifeform: lobbes maybe you have >1 chan mixed together in yer orig log
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, no, feedbot reads her blog there too
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: then puzzling, cuz is empty
asciilifeform: and diana_coman's defo postdates the revv-up of snsabot
asciilifeform: !quptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 20h 26m
asciilifeform: preceded by 25sec reset (hand-cranked) prior to which contin. up since day announced
lobbesbot: Logged on 2019-08-07 19:00:04: <feedbot> << Ossa Sepia -- A Visit at the Recycling of War Artefacts Museum
lobbes: lol mp_en_viaje beat me to the punch
mp_en_viaje: and incidentally i must say, lobbes 's old logger looks very pretty and moves fast. i always liked it.
lobbes: I always did too, buuut pip-isms :/
mp_en_viaje: the colorized names work well as an alternative to linecolors imi.
lobbes: they are all static pages too. Only time a db query happens is in the search
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i do.
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, yeah you know, can this not be rescued ? i dunno why exactly you're so down on it, but wtf, pretty static pages logotron ftw.
asciilifeform: << bot does work. but observe, this is index 1000000 ! i.e. 1st line it ever saw ?!!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:21:17 asciilifeform: apol. for noise, but must test bot :
asciilifeform: i'd like to find out what gives re snsabot in #e
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: well, I still want to complete my own logotron. if there is an interest in a redone version of that old logger, perhaps I can respec
asciilifeform: why lobbes has these feedbot ticks and i not ??
asciilifeform: #e was tuned in at initial boot, it was not late addition
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i can't imagine ?
asciilifeform: so far only can see that 1) bot is there 2) no missed lines in any other chan 3) logs when i shat there just now 4) indicates that is 1st log line in #e since tuned in
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, maybe you could just make your new logotron use the old ~format~ for spitting out html files ? the format itself must be portable neh ?
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: yeah, I think I might just do that. Make a simple parser that eats (perhaps even from the logbot db) and spits out html. I'll have to think on it
lobbes: not 100% sure yet how this'd go
mp_en_viaje: wait no, i mean...
mp_en_viaje: ok im fully confused. were you making a new logbot or not anymore ?
lobbes: I was going to make a logotron that displays loglines on a www. The logbot itself is already published (the one made by trinque/ben_vulpes)
mp_en_viaje: right.
lobbes: now, I could make a logotron that either displays lines from that db, OR from ZNC logs/irssi logs
lobbes: in my spec before, I was going for something that took the data from the logbot db
lobbes: however, I'm wondering if there is value in just having something that just spits static files in a colorized format (ala the old eulora logger)
lobbes: vs, say, something that queries the db on viewing each log page
mp_en_viaje: here's what i don't understand :
mp_en_viaje: you wrote, at some point, the current item, lobbesbot /
mp_en_viaje: this works well ; it looks pretty ; it is well stable and so on.
mp_en_viaje: then you decided to re-write it because i dunno why. then you decided to not rewrite it anymore, because too much work.
mp_en_viaje: a) why not genesis the item as is ? b) what exactly is the problem with it anyways ?!
asciilifeform: re #e, thread here re snsabot
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:31:54 asciilifeform: well no this is a potentially catastrophic bugola
asciilifeform: i'd like to continue it here, if mp_en_viaje dun object
asciilifeform: ( given that it aint euloristic as such )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:39:43 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, but #eulora is open, can join with no reg
asciilifeform: i'm gonna believe all the folx with raw logz tho, the bot evidently wasn't actually ~there~ until last reset
asciilifeform: this ain't the 'at&t five nines'(tm)(r) level of weatherproofiness that we want !
asciilifeform: and gotta fix!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:38:49 asciilifeform: there are 3 possible pills : 1) increase delay (and there is no guarantee from fleanode re what suffices) 2) do as ben's bot did, and await the fleanode-specific 'you've been authed' string when connecting 3) perform test re which chans we are in, when connected, and retry until the set of which-chans is equal to the config'd set
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you can always /userlist see what happesn ?
mp_en_viaje: should produce list of asciilifeform [~asciilife@unaffiliated/asciilifeform ] ov=00 away=0 lt=214 etc
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this only worx when in a chan neh
mp_en_viaje: well /userlist #channelname
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: regarding a) it is because even if genesis-ed the user would need to install and use pip >>
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-28 13:41:45 lobbes: Chiefly because in order to even install the heathen python coad, you need to first install and use "pip", which is dubious in its own right (see their 'mandatory code of conduct' for starters:
lobbes: mp_en_viaje: regarding b) I see your confusion. I was talking to diana_coman in #o earlier and I realized I have this bad habit of not really explaining my causes for action, nor my causes for changing course. This leads to confusion all around
lobbes: I'll see if I can't make a blog post about this describing the ugliness under the hood of the current #e logger
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: dun seem to work when used on chan that you aint in
lobbes: I'll brb in any case so asciilifeform can debug
asciilifeform: unless i'm doing it wrong
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: tho i suppose this is already enuff to litmus whether in-$chan or not
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, moreover, your reasoning is quite jumpy. who said that the only possible use of genesis'd material is to run it as-is ? conceivably someone might want to import... your html scheme
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'ma have to add this, to the bot, else it cannot be considered automatic
mp_en_viaje: if it's there this can be done, if it's not there this... can't be done. maybe someone knows how to take pip out of the process. if it's there they'll do it, if not there they won' chase you. and so following.
mp_en_viaje: publish always beats unpublish.
asciilifeform: ( until then, errybody plz poke asciilifeform with stick if ever notice that bot is awol !!! )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, but that's the point... if you're not in it... dun work... ergo you know you're not in.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: aha, this oughta suffice
mp_en_viaje: can always /users to see if ircd responds or not
mp_en_viaje: "* 5238 6368 :Current local users 5238, max 6368 * 82886 94773 :Current global users 82886, max 94773" sorta answer.
mp_en_viaje: and so on.
asciilifeform: ( for folx who did not read the genesis -- snsabot is 100% 'naked' sockets , dun include any 'irc libs', so entirely possible that i missed some other fleanode wart ! )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: correct; current bot actually makes no attempt to determine whether in fact fleanode is on other end, or 'netcat' and silence
asciilifeform: this was deliberate, so can work with e.g. a temporarily-disconnected znc on the other end
asciilifeform: but prolly a liability in re reliably connecting to fleanode
mp_en_viaje: either way you wish to run it, i'm just stating it's there if useful.
asciilifeform: i currently suspect that if i fix this, will lose zncism . can make knob.
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, and more importantly ... if you have it published today to lookat it in 2029 you can ; and if not you... can not. and so on.
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz : anne heche got genital herpes from her father, who "sexually teased" her until she got her period or thereabouts -- this entirely has nothing to do with her "lesbian"-ism ; jessica alba got genital herpes from some indian dude ; paris hilton also got, possibly from dog ; britney spears got it as a teen ; pamela anderson, lindsay lohan (doh)...
asciilifeform: << btw i considered 'shit static pages' . has the obv. costs ( can never put in phf-style backlinks; or rather they then have O(N) cost ; and repair work like becomes very, very expensive )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:21:38 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, yeah you know, can this not be rescued ? i dunno why exactly you're so down on it, but wtf, pretty static pages logotron ftw.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 16:10:52 asciilifeform: delete from loglines where chan = 'ossasepia' and idx < 1000000; and will re-eat when given new
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, no, correct way to do this is... as cache.
mp_en_viaje: first time any page is asked for, first look if there already, if not, shit it out.
mp_en_viaje: so WHAT if you end up with 500 versions of "same" page, hurr.
mp_en_viaje: can invalidate cache any time yo uwish also, to "fix"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i actually have cache, simply snipped out of genesis ver, need a few moving gears to invalidate it on 'tail' ('current') page of log when someone speaks
mp_en_viaje: it ~makes sense~ to have it as html on disk in this particular application.
mp_en_viaje: rather than as non-htmlized in-ram
mp_en_viaje: because of major apache synergies.
asciilifeform: these caches live in ram ( 'flask' dun offer a disk cache, and it'd nuke the ssd at any rate )
mp_en_viaje: for the application of logger as we use it, it's immensely better to keep the cache as html files on disk.
asciilifeform: caching isn't magic pill against slow ugh ; if you want backlinkage to work as-expected you end up invalidating pretty much all cache just about erry time someone replies to log line
mp_en_viaje: notrly.
asciilifeform: (granted snsabot/www dun presently do backlinks at all)
mp_en_viaje: the bulk of the cache are historical pages.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: say i reply to yesterday's line from mp_en_viaje . nao the cached copy of yesterday's log is logically invalid (dun have the backlink to today's reply)
mp_en_viaje: say you don't reply, just follow a link, a situation 100x more useful.
mp_en_viaje: it didn't have to be recalculated, was on disk.
mp_en_viaje: saved 99% of all the sweat. once you get more than .05 hits/s this will matter.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: so when does the proggy regen the x-y-z.html on disk ?
mp_en_viaje: whenever they're linked
mp_en_viaje: the whole point re logs is they don't really change except at the tip. like blockchains.
asciilifeform: theoretically this is Right Thing, mp_en_viaje . only headache is that 'flask' etc shitshow doesn't offer any path to it.
mp_en_viaje: yes well.
mp_en_viaje: kinda why i was admiring his "bad" logger.
asciilifeform: hence wai phf's method was Right Thing, and mine not
mp_en_viaje: has some aspects of unmatched goodness.
asciilifeform not read how lobbes did log, but from context supposes 'produced dir of static htm's as it went'
mp_en_viaje: well, i expect he'll publish it next week sometime, then can read.
mp_en_viaje: his logger looks well the fuck better than all the others, tbh. www-side i mean.
asciilifeform: i like the colours
asciilifeform: ( personally would leave out the join/partisms but perhaps that's just me )
mp_en_viaje: could even be knob
mp_en_viaje: ?parts=yes
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this gets sticky. if knobs (incl. my multiline-select knob) suddenly yer disk cache dun do you good
mp_en_viaje: (it is evidently useful to ~save them~, as you found out yourself earlier in #eulora, that the search included them helped you)
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, pages are 50kb at a time. takes a whole lotta them to make a difference.
asciilifeform: ( you'd have to cache all possible combos of knobbage, per page )
mp_en_viaje: yes, but ~only when called~
asciilifeform: rly there oughta be a apache-end util for this, but iirc mp_en_viaje actually went an' tried 9000 of'em and all were duds
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: what was it you had last tried, iirc 'squid' ?
mp_en_viaje: i don't even fucking rememberr.
mp_en_viaje: did i discuss this on trilema ?
asciilifeform: i quite distinctly recall that it didn't work worthashit, and mp_en_viaje smashed a keyboard or 2
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje iirc was defo a #t article
asciilifeform: ( there's no ~logical~ reason for it not to work, it's quite evidently Right Thing; simply happened that all the heathen utils for the job, were liquishit )
asciilifeform: it remains the case that this is distincly job for the www server frontend, tho, and not individual proggy behind it
asciilifeform: in fact half the point of having that 'apache' to start with
mp_en_viaje: php "cache" plugins for wp are very shit.
asciilifeform: nope. moar recent
asciilifeform: '15 iirc
asciilifeform: fwiw i also never was able to get 'squid' to work, and phuctor is cached on 'flask' end (caches expire in 5min, moar than enuff for when some bozo links one on reddit etc)
asciilifeform: was 'varnish' .
mp_en_viaje: this explains it, as i never ran squid to my memory anywhere
asciilifeform: there's coupla dozen of these. afaik none actually work w/out bucket of holy water and incantations
asciilifeform brb:meat
mp_en_viaje: varnish can be useful, but yes, bucket.
mp_en_viaje: imo not so useful for the case here, either.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm starting to think, that asciilifeform is doomed to write a www server
asciilifeform: same as was doomed to write logger
asciilifeform: seems to be the experience, that if you want item that actually worx, gotta go an' write...
asciilifeform: looked even at ancient rusty 'five nines' behemoths that apparently work , for potential dusting off a la gnat.
snsabot: Logged on 2017-03-30 10:38:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( )
snsabot: Logged on 2017-03-30 10:50:38 asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked
asciilifeform: i.e. could demand from the log bot to verify that it joins chans, w/out stopping it
asciilifeform: ... or, on the other end of things, snobol for string-wrangling instead of regexps...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-05-07 22:06:11 asciilifeform: nao! there ~were~ text processors designed by thinking people, where it ~was~ possible to write a readable proggy with predictable failure conditions. e.g. 'snobol'. but these, buried under 30yrs of sediment, will take serious archaeology to unearth.
asciilifeform: * deedbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) << trinque ?
asciilifeform: trinque werentcha gonna move it ?
asciilifeform bbl again : moar meat
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For quite a while now deedbot has been quit/joining right around 0:00 UTC
BingoBoingo: Ah, how much simpler the world was on its surface a decade ago
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't resist to ask, didja actually work through the ro, or relying on googlefish etc ? cuz if it's the latter, yer certain to step on some sharp nails
asciilifeform: << i have a suspicion that trinque set it to cycle at 0hrs (in frustration re socket wedge ?)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 20:43:48 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For quite a while now deedbot has been quit/joining right around 0:00 UTC
lobbes: speaking of deedbot down, I can't deed, but new output of #eulora ZNC logz at:
lobbes: this time with fixed action lines
lobbes: though still puzzled why last clearsigned version didn't deed... I checked a few more times for sanity and the sig verified for me
lobbes: wonder if just because it is ~15 MB...
asciilifeform: verifies here
lobbes: ty for checking. Eases my paranoia a bit
asciilifeform: sigs are for to verify, they aint decorative, lol
asciilifeform: lobbes: i'm getting buncha utf8 eggogs when trying to eat in the staging box
asciilifeform: will paste list of indices shortly
lobbes: gross, okay.
lobbes: I have a feeling it may be from spam-fest 2018 >>
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:42:16: <oida5> fan іѕ nഠt doing Allah iѕ dоⅰng
asciilifeform: ugh quite a few
asciilifeform: 983234;1532548180;*;danielpbarron is legitimate corner case, will have to fix
asciilifeform: however, lobbes , these all seem to contain mysterious unibarf
asciilifeform: that chokes py's postgres feeder
asciilifeform: lobbes: all seem to be 0xd7 spuriously in line somewhere
asciilifeform: tho not always
asciilifeform: see e.g. idx 867691
asciilifeform: dafuq happened to this log, lobbes
asciilifeform: where did it get shat out of ?
asciilifeform: or see e.g. 869967
asciilifeform: typically lines containing numerics, are littered with bitrotted nonascii
asciilifeform: ( and not, as one might expect, ru, or greek, etc. which 100% swallowed a+++ from phf's logs )
asciilifeform: lobbes: i am not gonna try to clean this, unless there is no other log, i suspect something unspeakable happened to it somewhere in transit to my desk
asciilifeform: lobbes: plox to describe ~exactly~ how you got it when you get chance
lobbes: hmm, okay I will inspect and report back
asciilifeform: i'm even surprised that gpg ate this
lobbes: ftr, here is the current incarnation of the :
lobbes: just more to add to the 'python sux' pile I suppose (or perhaps just my coding sux pile)
lobbes: and the logs it ate, for these logs:
asciilifeform: there's no dispute that py sux
lobbes: of course. pile exists after all!
asciilifeform: lobbes: interestingly, the uni-spam aint where choked
asciilifeform: it seems to ~all consist of actual people ( mircea_popescu et al ) discussing numbers
asciilifeform: take a look at the listed indices
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 22:46:22 lobbes: I have a feeling it may be from spam-fest 2018 >>
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:42:16: <oida5> fan іѕ nഠt doing Allah iѕ dоⅰng
lobbes: that is odd indeed
asciilifeform: the culprit will have to be found before this archive can be eaten, lobbes ; i suspect that the bitrot aint limited to uniturds
lobbes: oh wow, yeah I'm seeing the bitrot in the ZNC logs I fed to the thing. Very weird. But ty for the list of indicies; this will help
asciilifeform: lobbes: there may be others after 983243 also (current proggy stopped there cuz null line, will fix in coming days, had nfi fleanode permitted lines of length 0)
asciilifeform: err, 983234
lobbes: I'm going to do some manual cleanup of the ZNC logs that correspond to the indicies you mentioned at least. Noted on the 983234 stop point
asciilifeform: lobbes: i recommend to instead find out how the fuck it got into this condition
asciilifeform: ( how wouldja fix the numerics, what if the 3s were 7s etc )
asciilifeform: at the very least you'll want >1 indep. copy of the pertinent lines
asciilifeform: ( from diff machines )
asciilifeform: we'll 'manual clean' if there is 0 other choice, but presently would rather know wtf happened to this thing
asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, the 'chi non piscia in compagnia' anon in mp's comments apparently has this as his www ...
asciilifeform: 'We Hunted the Mammoth is an ad-free, reader-supported publication written and published by longtime journalist David Futrelle, who has been tracking, dissecting, and mocking the growing misogynistic backlash since 2010, exposing the hateful ideologies of Men’s Rights Activists, incels, alt-rightists and many others.'
asciilifeform: ... and epaulettes?! (i.e. long-time reader?)
lobbes: asciilifeform: good point. re: your "if 3s are 7s" example, I already see what you mean...
lobbes: As for *why* these have rotted so: I am not sure. My best guess is that it is because my current #e logotron does many copy operations per hour from the ZNC files (though this is just a stab in the dark; I really don't know if this would cause bitrot)
asciilifeform: climbing upstack, << lobbes why is this ? i haven't encountered yet a pythonism that actually ~demands~ 'pip', they're all installable manually (and/or, on older gentoo boxen not yet hosed -- via 'portage' )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:43:58 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: regarding a) it is because even if genesis-ed the user would need to install and use pip >>
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
lobbes: Hopefully someone else has cleaner ZNC logs. But fwiw in the meantime, I've produced a list of the problem indicies/original logdate/loglines >>
← 2019-08-10 | 2019-08-12 →