#trilema | 2019-08-13

asciilifeform: nao almost tolerable

feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr-vpatch/ << lobbesblog -- znc2tmsr vpatch

lobbes: ^ asciilifeform, et al.

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927288 << archiver back online btw (it has been chugging through the backlog for the last 4 hours or so)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 09:25:32 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927269 << cool deal.

lobbes bbl sleep

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928191 << you know, someone fucked something up somewhere, because recall http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922400 ? sounds exactly the same, server just sits there for MINUTE before serving anything, for no reason. this didn't use to be the case, i suspect some "upgrade" broke the stack you two both happen to use ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 22:07:05 asciilifeform: i'ma have to set whole orchestra up on a box w/ classic apache, to see whether same thing

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928198 < tyvm!

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 01:29:02 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927288 << archiver back online btw (it has been chugging through the backlog for the last 4 hours or so)

mp_en_viaje: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-considers-lifting-hostel-ban-to-lure-more-tourists-11565649721 << in other fucking lulz, new york joins the chase for norse retards.

mp_en_viaje: maybe they could add the fat black woman at airport to dole out cabs to a queue ? god knows new york's prime for that.

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/bring-it-on/ << Trilema -- Bring It On

mp_en_viaje: hoooly shit, i woke up by myself.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: plox to try the 'heavy' log pgs, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927995

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 13:29:09 mp_en_viaje: and yes alflog still teletype, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 loaded in ~5s

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928201 << i dun 'upgrade', lol. and also admittedly never before tried to get a www to load in <1s specifically. ( btw -- does trilema for all pgs ? )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 06:02:15 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928191 << you know, someone fucked something up somewhere, because recall http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922400 ? sounds exactly the same, server just sits there for MINUTE before serving anything, for no reason. this didn't use to be the case, i suspect some "upgrade" broke the stack you two both happen to use ?

asciilifeform: if somebody's sat for ~minute~ , sounds like sslism ( not in use on dulap and never will be )

asciilifeform brb, meat

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/holy-shit-i-woke-up-by-myself/ << Trilema -- Holy shit, I woke up by myself.

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, looks like about 1-2s for a large (400kb) page (a ; b), though id you actually look into the waterfalls the page itself is composed in 400-500ms, the rest being wats for random repeatable elements (which most browsers don't re-load) like avatar.pngs favicon.ico sbtop.png etc

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: log now also 1-2s here ( ~3 for the 'heavy' historic pg linked earlier )

asciilifeform: but would like to confirm that other folx see similar figure, and aint an artifact of asciilifeform's local cachism

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: ty for the tool link, will try with it

asciilifeform not habitual wwwist and was unaware this existed

mp_en_viaje: $ time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09 yields real 0m5.405s

mp_en_viaje: tbh in your case looks mostly like slow / poorly burstable pipe ; if you look at the waterfal it's mostly grey (receiving), 95% of the 2.x seconds they wait

mp_en_viaje: use the mouse hoover tooltips, they're informative. anyways, the webpage itself is good grade, by web standards.

mp_en_viaje: 3s for 80kb is scandalous, but i'd say it's the poor q of your bw, nothing you can do about that from software.

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: hm why graphic browser gives < 1s for same here ?

diana_coman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928221 -> I got real0m9.634s

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 10:37:40 mp_en_viaje: $ time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09 yields real 0m5.405s

asciilifeform: perhaps curl dun eat gzip

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, possibly because caches.

mp_en_viaje: hit shift-ctrl-r or w/e invalidates all cache in your browser

asciilifeform: knew this, same sans cache

asciilifeform: something is odd, i sat all evening last night reading vintage #t logz via my displayer and none ate >3s

mp_en_viaje: who even knows, maybe "smart router" decided to priviledge you connection

asciilifeform: ( after upped buffer on box and reenabled gzipism )

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: possibly i did not elaborate , but on box's own shell, if viewing through ngx , fully 1-2s moar delay than if direct to port where py proggy

asciilifeform: and in fact accts for all but ~70msec of a heavy pg

asciilifeform: i found no obvious cause, but in process of knob turning combinatorics cut the delay somewhat ( seems to only be detectable in graphic wwwtrons tho, and , annoyingly, cannot actually get useful number from those, unlike curl )

asciilifeform: tried large buffers, no buffers, various tcpism knobs, no obv culprit for the impedance mismatch (what i suspect this is )

asciilifeform: pretty certain that the pipe itself is blameless, i get consistent realtime work through it, not once long pings much less subjective feel of 'mars probe'

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, do inspect element or similar, developer toolbox, we

mp_en_viaje: all gfx browsers have a timer thing

asciilifeform: was looking at https://gtmetrix.com/reports/logs.nosuchlabs.com/m3to2XTx , somewhat cryptic, will check out others

asciilifeform: iirc chromisms have timer, i have box w/ one

mp_en_viaje: firefox too

mp_en_viaje: unless they took it out, like the screenshot thing

asciilifeform: https://tools.pingdom.com/#5b22d518dfc00000 << this one confirms my init observ., almost whole second in 'connect' + 'wait' ( and 5 in receive , doesn't say in what pattern, but visually curl in the 'slow even on local shell' variant appears 'bursty' )

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928224 << ftr i routinely get 1-2 MB/s from my chair to dulap and reverse

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 10:41:12 mp_en_viaje: 3s for 80kb is scandalous, but i'd say it's the poor q of your bw, nothing you can do about that from software.

asciilifeform: it aint best possible pipe, but pretty good; and , as i pointed out already, effect persists ~without~ it ( i.e. operating curl within dulap shaves only 200msec vs to my chair; and has same peculiar 'burst' pattern and wild variance in total time )

asciilifeform: via chromistic timer , get 1.40s for the heaviweight sample

snsabot: Logged on 2018-04-18 21:58:18 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i can't recommend the dsc-rx100 quite warmly enough. it's a splendid sony compact with zeiss lenses that's easily the best camera i ever saw.

asciilifeform: this thing dun seem to distinguish the phases of the load tho (only distinguished load from rendering, and cuts the latter into phases. which makes a kind of sense, tool is evidently for debug of 'slow cuz hands of who wrote html-shitter grow from arse' scenarios )

asciilifeform will try on various FF later today. other folx welcome to report theirs.

asciilifeform: if this box weren't also running phuctor, could simply hang the logger on port 80 and get, theoretically, 200-300msec loads, loox like.

asciilifeform: aint nginx, apache, etc supposed to ~cure~ impedance mismatches, rather than cause'em...

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928196 << lobbes does this result in same eggogs when eating your archive as before ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 01:25:21 feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr-vpatch/ << lobbesblog -- znc2tmsr vpatch

asciilifeform: btw time curl -H "Accept-Encoding: gzip" http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log yields avg. 0.4s . so indeed default curl dun eat gzip.

asciilifeform: this aint a cure tho (afaik not all browsers eat it)

asciilifeform: the 'heavy' page -- 1.4-2s avg. on same

asciilifeform: ( from asciilifeform's chair ; 0.9 when executed locally on dulap , via ng i.e. the public url )

asciilifeform: the 'heavy' pg again, via yet another 'www debugger'. 0.5s time-to-first-byte ! ..and defo shows the 'burst' pattern.

asciilifeform: or hm, possibly misread, and it's 0.737s

asciilifeform has nfi why the # given for 'all' vs the 1st 'resource' could differ

asciilifeform: it is even possible that the pipe is to blame, i.e. the measurement is 'random' depending on how congested the pipe at piz on acct of e.g. the multiple trb noads sitting there

asciilifeform: however :

asciilifeform: e.g. time curl "http://ossasepia.com/" > /dev/null >> real 0m1.597s and weighs 108k atm

asciilifeform: so i still suspect it aint the pipe ( diana_coman lives at piz )

asciilifeform: all the clues point to nginx.

asciilifeform: for comparison : diana_coman's www via this same tool .

asciilifeform: for non-piz comparison : trilema www, via same .

asciilifeform now thoroughly stumped, ~all 3~ seem to show ~same 'time to first byte'

asciilifeform: and now phf's log -- of 'heavy' pg -- via same. pretty interesting. total load time (to the tester author's box) -- 0.646s ; 1st byte -- 0.254s .

asciilifeform: i'm beginning to suspect that nginx, apache, etc. are intrinsically dead weight, when sat in front of a programmatic html shitter

asciilifeform: and that phf did not use these, but hung up his logger straight on port80

asciilifeform: attn panzers : whichever 1 of you is searching for 'cuts of the meat' -- that's in pre-dragon log, not yet imported.

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/burn-after-reading/ << Trilema -- Burn After Reading

asciilifeform: meanwhile, added 'download daily db snapshot' link to logotron.

asciilifeform will put in readme , for next patch, how to set up the cron for these

asciilifeform: currently set to snapshot at 0 hrs. daily. (snapshot itself takes ~8sec at the current mass of the db)

asciilifeform: presently, weighs (compressed) ~23MB.

asciilifeform: i expect will be roughly 3x that when all the back-archives added.

asciilifeform: if folx want to mirror, i'd prefer that also happen daily, otherwise no amt of pipe will suffice

asciilifeform: this ^ is simple means of testing the logger for folx not yet ready to stand up bot. e.g. : zcat dump.gz | psql -U nsabot -d nsalog will eat (assuming you already inited db w/ the provided schema)

BingoBoingo: Las empresas de consumo masivo aumentan sus precios hasta 15% y el Gobierno evalúa qué hacer con "Precios Esenciales" << Headline across the river

BingoBoingo: Also: "Honda dejará de fabricar autos en la Argentina y se focalizará en la producción de motos"

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/08/4-tor-users-sentenced-in-us/ << Qntra -- 4 Tor Users Sentenced In US

asciilifeform: hey BingoBoingo , couldja run for me these timings plz

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kJJ54/?raw=true

asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo

BingoBoingo: In other news, lower office holding Cristinists are already proposing a return of the Blue Dollar. Nevermind the Argentine Central bank is dumping dollars onto the market now just trying to slow the Peso Argentino's fall.

feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/08/13/pizarro-isp-july-2019-report/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP July 2019 Report

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's get the 2nd xyz plant specced an' bought this mo

asciilifeform: if at all possible

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: considering we're 100% outta unoccupied holes in which to put folx

asciilifeform: the tyre fire of 'hey we've no logger' is , if not put out, then at low smoulder, so let's get this item moving

asciilifeform still ill at ease re logger, pending confirmation that the kit actually stands up somewhere other than in asciilifeform's hands

asciilifeform: see also

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 17:08:50 asciilifeform: diana_coman: my pov, is that would like to get all 'magick' the fuck out of logotronics.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928291 << i take it 'blue dollar' is/was same thing as sovok's 'convertible ruble' ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 18:24:25 BingoBoingo: In other news, lower office holding Cristinists are already proposing a return of the Blue Dollar. Nevermind the Argentine Central bank is dumping dollars onto the market now just trying to slow the Peso Argentino's fall.

asciilifeform: ( y'know, the one that was Officially Pegged (tm) at 15 to 1 $ , whereas in reality 100+:1 )

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: iirc "Blue" was the dollar that tracked actual supply/demand

BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: let's get the 2nd xyz plant specced an' bought this mo << Aite

asciilifeform: hm i thought that was the only remaining kind after dethronement of whore

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, there was the offical rate proclaimed by Cristina, and then there was the Blue rate everyone actually traded at

asciilifeform: so what means then 'return of blue dollar' ?

BingoBoingo: Well, when Cristina got kicked out of the Pink house and into congress... Argentina started floating their currency

BingoBoingo: Return of the Blue dollar means they peg again and go back to fighting reality on this clearly lost front

asciilifeform: aa!

BingoBoingo: And they'd be doing this with even less dollars in their hands than the last time they tried.

asciilifeform: in other noose, added simple knob to logotron that sends reader to (p)random line of selected chan.

asciilifeform: ( not strictly as 'toy for noobs' but will help torture-test , perhaps readers will turn up some case where renders barf )

asciilifeform: it is found down at the bottom , with the rest 'shit hanging off side of the rifle' perpetrated by asciilifeform

BingoBoingo: "Molinos no entregan harina por falta de precios y se paraliza la industria del pan" << https://archive.is/RbAe7 Latest from across the river

asciilifeform: продразверстка when!111

BingoBoingo: Well, Argentines are talking about the possibility that "Brasil quits Mercosur" instead of the far more likely "Argentina suspended from Mercosur" (Venezuela is the precedent in this case)

asciilifeform: in other minor noose, 'random' button already paid for self, found page where for some yet-unknown reason line wrap fails

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928256 << it is inconclusive if the eggogs are a result of the znc2tmsr converter, or the znc logs themselves. Now that I have your logotron pressed onto my cuntoo workstation, I aim to get some irssi #e logs and run them through diana_coman's irssi2tmsr converter, and then snarf that into your logotron to see if I also get barf.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 12:29:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928196 << lobbes does this result in same eggogs when eating your archive as before ?

asciilifeform: ^ expert wwwists in the house ? plox to write in

lobbes: No rush to sign anyway. Main reason I even published was mp_en_viaje's solid reasoning >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927639

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:49:12 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, and more importantly ... if you have it published today to lookat it in 2029 you can ; and if not you... can not. and so on.

asciilifeform: lobbes: a++ . i'ma try it in coming days ( need #a , #p eaten )

asciilifeform: lobbes: seems to me that it shouldn't be hard to find whether 'because znc logs themselves' -- look in the raw logs

lobbes: well, I definitely saw some oddities in the raw logs on my end (as in, some of the problem lines had e.g. apostropies rendered as '?' when I viewed them through the 'more' command, for example)

asciilifeform: lobbes: you prolly have a 7bit console

lobbes: may be a better way to check bitrot, but I am pretty novice at this stuff

asciilifeform: so naturally will '?'

lobbes: ahh

asciilifeform: ( do other unihieroglyphs show ? e.g. greek ? )

asciilifeform: and wait, apostrophes , all ? or uniturd-ostrophes strictly ?

asciilifeform: put it through hexdump -C .

lobbes: lemme see if I can get a good example

lobbes makes note of hexdump -C

asciilifeform: normal human being apostrophe is, y'know , 0x27

lobbes: of course, now I can't find the example haha. But okay, I'm going to go back and take another look with hexdump in-hand

lobbes: seems to be a saner method

asciilifeform: another page that breaks, apparently, wrapping

asciilifeform: lobbes: it wouldn't astonish me if turns out that some particular combo of uniturds -- breaks py's uniturdism eater

asciilifeform: on either receiving or emitting end

asciilifeform: or, say, inside regexpism

asciilifeform: iirc phf struggled with something not unlike this, when wrote his CL proggy

asciilifeform has been digging through logs for what details there may have been put there, but not yet turned up

lobbes: would be a good discovery in any case. at this point I just wanna know why/what it is specifically

asciilifeform: gotta say that mp was right in re front-end being tougher nut to crack than the bot

asciilifeform: !q uptime

snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 4d 1h 3m

asciilifeform: i for instance have only the foggiest notion of why cssism does what it does and when/where

asciilifeform: to the extent that the renderer worx, is because lifted from phf's (and massaged empirically)

asciilifeform: but where doesn't ( see the overflowing pgs ) currently nfi why, nor even where to start investigation

asciilifeform: ( from ~output~ of phf's , that is, to this day nobody knows how it birthed this output )

asciilifeform: may well end up having to rewrite the formatter to use <table> . as in phuctor. there, and nowhere else , wrapping seems to work 100% , on all browser from 'lynx' to 1990s 'netscape'

asciilifeform bbl:meat

lobbes: so this is interesting... here's an example line from the live log that barfed on import >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-26.log.html#t20:04:33

lobbes: here it is in "raw" form on the same www (timestamp [20:04:33]) >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-26.log

lobbes: I curled that very .log file just now and ran it through hexdump -C. Here is the result of that line (Hex comes out to "92") >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SSSVY/?raw=true

lobbes: asciilifeform: unrelated, but I noticed logbot's readout above is not showing on http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13 O-o

lobbes: errr lobbesbot's readout. anyways I'll bbl as well

asciilifeform: lobbes: my bot only echoes own loglines. as per traditional mp-given style.