verisimilitude: How should a client handle a slightly-belligerent peer? Ignoring the message is no option, due to the chain, requiring the client at least remember to not attempt to get it.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-16#1107247 << in which gay fuzzing reveals bugs, and they are quickly fixed. tyvm thimbronion
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-16 22:55:48 thimbronion: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch.thimbronion.sig << for those who got blown up by the smiley bomb
thimbronion: shinohai: no worries - patch had been in the oven for a while.
thimbronion: discourse here is degrading rapidly 😂
shinohai: I'll know I've fucked up when verisimilitude tries to start conversing entirely in emojis.
signpost: so long as it doesn't support his custom set of nazi furry emojis.
shinohai is at last back at desk, prepares to update blatta ....
shinohai: I've had 0 luck trying to remove the ssl junk from weechat for use on pentacle, I fear this will be giant undertaking.
thimbronion: should rename it to blatta-xp
verisimilitude: It's boring; oh look, another hole in the Swiss cheese.
punkman: "attacks a security mechanism in ARM, introduced in ARMv8.3. They have employed the Apple M1 processor … but it is very likely that many other ARMv8-based processors will have the same limitation."
asciilifeform had nfi these even purported to 'iron boundscheck', lol
verisimilitude: Eventually, the processor doesn't even implement its model, because it is so broken that they haphazardly restrict it. I call this quality Omnipresent Mismatch.
punkman: arguably the funniest hardware bug is "rowhammer" etc, where fix has made all new processors non-trivially slower
punkman: "Yo dawg, we heard you had a vulnerability mitigator so we designed a vulnerability to mitigate your vulnerability mitigator."
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-10-27 asciilifeform: if you are unwilling to treat the problem as something to be abolished AS A LOGICAL CLASS - you are stuck with idiot epicycles
asciilifeform: ( the ~working~ pill, ftr, is simply to use ecc ram exclusively, lol )
verisimilitude: Wait, a simple parity check is the only correction needed?
verisimilitude: They clearly don't want to solve the problem, then.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ohnoez 9th bit costs $!1111
asciilifeform: ( in actuality deeper, moar cynical scam -- given as ecc aint optional for serious server , intel artificially crippled all product lines other than 'xeon' to kill support for ecc; while selling 'xeon' at 15x the usual going price of similar cpu )
verisimilitude: I've read as much, yes.
asciilifeform: 1 of the reasons asciilifeform still uses exclusively amd 'opteron' in x86 boxen
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-17 01:21:16 verisimilitude: How should a client handle a slightly-belligerent peer? Ignoring the message is no option, due to the chain, requiring the client at least remember to not attempt to get it.
verisimilitude: Cutting his head off is one solution, sure.
verisimilitude: Well, cutting off his head, that is.
verisimilitude: There's a much better way to guarantee a seven-bit code, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: Use the leftover bits to encode another seven-bit character.
verisimilitude: Make the field twenty-eight octets, and encode thirty-two characters all the same.
verisimilitude: Prevent it by construction.
verisimilitude: That's how I design my numerical formats.
verisimilitude: A bit always set to a certain value is wasted space.
verisimilitude: Really, even that's wasteful.
verisimilitude: A six-bit code fits the requirements exactly.
verisimilitude: The sixty-fourth value could be the padding value.
verisimilitude: So, twenty-four octets encode thirty-two characters, leaving a nice eight octets for something else.
verisimilitude: The best way to eliminate edge cases is to remove the ability to express them, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: I'll make it more obvious that the zeroeth value is padding.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-17#1107300 << ignoring for a moment the cpu cost of the bitstuffing crackpottery -- there's such a thing as word alignment; observe that (almost) all data structures in pest are aligned
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-17 15:13:59 verisimilitude: Make the field twenty-eight octets, and encode thirty-two characters all the same.
asciilifeform: this aint accidental
verisimilitude: I know.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in misc. irons, apparently a complete chinese-style production like (x-y paste jetter, pick'n'place, conveyor, reflow oven) can be had naodays for ~15k $ , comes in 1 shipping container
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-15 23:27:45 asciilifeform: in wholly unrelated n00se, apparently sipm can be had naodays for 20-30$, rather than 100-200
asciilifeform: signpost et al ^ may find interesting
punkman: pick-n-place is the hardest part
asciilifeform quite aware of this
asciilifeform: may or may not change the balance of 'only a complete fool would try to bake irons naodays' -- depending on 'what'
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-12-16 13:06:17 asciilifeform: cgra: i ought to make clear that i do not atm have any plans to mass-produce any kind of irons (beyond handful of prototypes for own use.) simply because it -- afaik -- cannot be done economically.
asciilifeform: *production line
verisimilitude: The octet and its consequences have been a disaster for protocol design.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: incidentally can't 'prevent by construction' given that not all 7bit chars valid in handles
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: attempts to run entirely away from the fact that yer on a physical machine, with elements of given physical size -- are doomed to comical failure
asciilifeform: picture an architect who 'fuck learning about materials, i oughta be able to make house any shape i want!!'
verisimilitude: I explained how, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: A six-bit character does prevent it by construction.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-17#1107311 << let's say we wanna permit e.g. '$', to mark folx folx connecting via luser gates.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-17 15:45:47 verisimilitude: !abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ0123456789_
bitbot: (pest) 2022-06-08 asciilifeform: awt: was thinking about a hypothetical blatta mod for emplacing e.g. a n00b gate in place of dulapnet;
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-06 13:43:52 asciilifeform: signpost: would be handy to have it in #a (which asciilifeform plans to keep around as a n00b door, until figures out a way to cleanly bridge an irc door to pestnet) but not essential imho
asciilifeform: nao can't, cuz 6bits? lol
verisimilitude: That wasn't part of the requirements.
verisimilitude: I'm an architect and am able to make my house any shape I want here, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: make, make. but dun be surprised if others 'live in it ? i wouldn't walk under it!'(tm)(r)(h.hughes)
verisimilitude: Now, it does so happen I found a way to make an Elision representation fit both requirements well, but those are still vague and the machine matters less; I'll see what happens with that eventually.
asciilifeform: anyone recall the (brothers grimm?) analogue of the procrustes story, where stuck-up princess wants errything 'just-so', and gets her corset laced as tight as it'll go, to 'fit exactly', then at some pt can't take deep enuff breath & chokes
verisimilitude: Look at under what we currently live, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: good % of it came from precisely this style of premature optimization.
verisimilitude: Don't lecture to me about what people want, when it's clear the average person is a total fool who will accept whatever computer be given unto him.
asciilifeform: fughet 'avg person'. lace own corset as tightly as you like.
verisimilitude: No, I don't see it that way.
verisimilitude: Look at UNIX. There are stupid little custom formats, but not like this. They only did it in order to enable ostensibly generic tooling to be used.
verisimilitude: Look at how I write, asciilifeform; I'm plenty smart enough to satisfy myself and the typical machine, so that's what I'll end up doing in all likelihood.
asciilifeform: lucky job that early unix people couldn't rely on having 8bit byte (look at 1st ed. of k&r) or thing'd be even moar infested with gnarly microoptimizations than already is
verisimilitude: I can trim and massage and design until it perfectly fits my requirements and also adheres to octet-alignment.
asciilifeform: 'Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two. You're not in Kansas, anymore. C is the language of the poor farmer village where the allocation of every seed and livestock matters, where taxes are low and public service non-existent. Appreciating the value of a large language is evidently hard for many people, just like many people find themselv
asciilifeform: es miserable in the big city and go to great lengths to create a small village for themselves in the city where everything is like it used to be where they came from. Common Lisp can accomodate people who want to program in any old language and re-create what they are used to, but if they want to get the most ouf ot it, the only way to do it is to adapt to the language and accept that somebody else may be better than
asciilifeform: you are at designing languages.'
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: and when you want to go back and change sumthing ? thenwat
asciilifeform: 'oh never' ?
verisimilitude: That issue keeps coming up, asciilifeform, but if I just think about it for years, I can avoid ever needing to do that.
verisimilitude: There will be versioning anyway.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: if you see yerself as involved in pure mathematics, rather than aiming to actually solve sumthing in physical reality w/ a comp on sumthing resembling human timescale -- the machine is arguably a distraction, and you oughta be working w/ pen & paper
verisimilitude: Common Lisp still uses CAR and CDR.
asciilifeform: cuz composable. cddar caddr etc
verisimilitude: This isn't that, per se, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: Compare Elision to Loper-OS.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it's stuck waiting on access to ic fab ?
asciilifeform: or how ?
verisimilitude: Good; Elision is stuck waiting on me.
verisimilitude: My point is I can't expect Elision to make much sense to others until I breathe life into it.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: sure. see phf's link from last wk tho, a notbad piece on what happens when folx dismiss the physicality of the machine
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-11 22:48:38 phf: asciilifeform: there's a shout out to you in an article that's floating around https://applied-langua.ge/posts/i-dont-want-to-go-to-chel-c.html#org12582b4
verisimilitude: Some of these questions and comments are on the level of ``but if the machine remembers state, how can I reboot when it fucks up'', to me.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: approx as interesting as a hypothetical 1950s idjit, transplanted to vlsi era , asking 'if i can't unscrew individual transistor in ic, how can i swap it like a triode when it burns out?'
asciilifeform: asciilifeform refs to this kind of 'thinking' as 'partial differentiation' and it is a typical leper's bell of dimwits , not usually worth explaining anyffing to
asciilifeform: ( they're ~guaranteed to come up with infinite series of such 'triodes' )
verisimilitude: I do recall asciilifeform writing about replacing capacitors, however.
asciilifeform: they're replaceable, wat. and last 10-20y
verisimilitude: There are certain characteristics of good design that transcend the current state.
asciilifeform: (re 'differentiation', per legend there was a u.s. army test for idiocy in early 20th c: 'know that the last car of a train typically gets the worst of a train wreck. propose a solution.' a certain common type of moron would often suggest 'remove the last car' )
verisimilitude: It's good to keep that in-mind, lest one design something that, say, only works well with AVX-512.
verisimilitude: Make the last car stronger, say.
asciilifeform: or load it w/ things that aint breakable. can think of 2-3 not wholly moronic possible answers
asciilifeform: but some folx insist 'remove last car'
asciilifeform: reveals certain type of braindamage.
verisimilitude: Maybe they were mathematicians.
asciilifeform: mathematician, per stereotype, would ask for an infinite train, having no last car, neh
verisimilitude: That also.
adlai|text: circular train!
asciilifeform: 'computer scientist' would ask for the train to be circular
asciilifeform: adlai|text beat asciilifeform to the 'answer'
asciilifeform: luddite : 'that's whatcha get for getting involved with trains'
adlai|text did actually encounter article in "The Economist" describing circular trains around cities, providing an intermediary moving platform between intracity trams and intercity high-speed trains.
adlai|text: it was a cool article and it made great toilet reading while I was high out of my mind.
asciilifeform: author prolly also 'high outta mind'
verisimilitude: I do think about micro-optimizations for Elision systems, but I try to regard them as curiosities.
verisimilitude: However, keeping relevant data close together and whatnot transcends these curiosities.
asciilifeform: 'close' but actually in next machine word aint actually close, tho
verisimilitude: That's not what I meant; care for the curiosity?
verisimilitude: Consider this Latin word storage, first as octets: ABCC
verisimilitude: The first octet has, say, capitalization and following punctuation and whatnot.
verisimilitude: The declining or conjugating code is second.
verisimilitude: The word code is the final hextet.
asciilifeform: hm wait , thought verisimilitude was going for 100% compat. w/ classical rome, what 'capitalization'
asciilifeform: and wat punctuation
verisimilitude: Oh, right; whatever, it was an example.
verisimilitude: I could go into minutiae, but didn't for this.
verisimilitude: It's trivial to see how to efficiently remove A to compare BCC or AB to compare CC, because they're contiguous and relevant parts are close together.
asciilifeform: lol either you can 'microoptimize 4evah!' xor 'skip the minutiae' !
verisimilitude: This is a curiosity.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: feel free to continue, asciilifeform must bbl
verisimilitude: Namely, a single register shift does this, while maintaining certain mathematical relationships, notice.
verisimilitude: That's all.
verisimilitude: The minutiae would be how Latin allows VL and occasionally OL, as far as I know, to be inserted into nouns to diminish them.
verisimilitude: BESTIA beast
verisimilitude: BESTIOLA tiny beast, say, insect
verisimilitude: Obviously, this conflicts with my model, but I can special-case this to make it work anyway.
verisimilitude: SACCVS bag
verisimilitude: SACCVLVS baggy, hip pouch
verisimilitude: This bit would be stored in A.
verisimilitude: Only a fool would place it elsewhere.