Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-08-06 | 2015-08-08 →
decimation: I thought it actually was the case that japan was close to the bomb
assbot: New evidence of Japan's effort to build atom bomb at the end of WWII - LA Times ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49000 @ 0.00058517 = 28.6733 BTC [+]
decimation: so that would be a ways away, but still on track
decimation: "On May 19, 1945, a Nazi submarine was captured and discovered to be delivering 1,200 pounds of uranium oxide to the Japanese military. "
BingoBoingo: Japan was probably closer than Germany
decimation: yes, that's my understanding too
decimation: they had a separate army research program
BingoBoingo: !up phf_mobile
phf_mobile: thanks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61141 @ 0.00057319 = 35.0454 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Remember, in the future camels made detroit broke
phf_mobile: n6: ben_vulpes: still having an issue getting "bitcoin/src/serialize.h:963:10: error: class member cannot be redeclared" even with your, what am I missing? << you have to comment out either one of the versions of void insert function, it's either one at 963 or 951. they are identical, but i'm sure they are there for some legacy type signature reasons
n6: Thanks I will look at that after my 3rd gentoo install attempt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10556 @ 0.00057319 = 6.0506 BTC [-]
phf_mobile: i have a mac os x patch, but as i recall that's the only change required, and since i don't understand the implications, i didn't post it. it works when building with clang, but needs investigation why duplicate function to begin with
BingoBoingo: "Me Kind Arab" - Why did I not watch Mad Max earlier
BingoBoingo: "Thunderdome"
BingoBoingo: "We want Thunderdome"
BingoBoingo: "dying time's here"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00058243 = 2.3297 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55964 @ 0.00057319 = 32.078 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: lol django girls meetup.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the equivalent would be going to pre-childbearing classes and asking them how many are goddesses.
trinque: haha
mircea_popescu: <trinque> n6: mang don't use lilo << you know he just got advised to run lilo few hours back right here in our very own b-a.
mircea_popescu: we fucking need that holy distro already, stop frustrating innocent people's legitimate attempts.
assbot: Australia To Build New Naval Fleet in $65B Package ... ( )
trinque: thought poor mod6 was trying to standardize a process
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> we fucking need that holy distro already, stop frustrating innocent people's legitimate attempts. << Suckless hasn't finished yet
trinque: he had asked for the gentoo guide.
mircea_popescu: so he had.
mircea_popescu: so far his experience sounds a lot like mine.
trinque: yeah, it's certainly not great
n6: I'm still running into the same error here "grub2-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/x86_64-efi/ doesn't exist. Please specify --target or --directory."
BingoBoingo: So far it seems learnign curve for building whole OS is XBSD, Buildroot, Gentoo
BingoBoingo: Also what is up with Mel Gibson and half nekkid children
mircea_popescu: n6 well do you have that .sh anywhere ?
n6: the callgraph one?
n6: oh Im not even sure what your asking here.
trinque: n6: my bad if I was demotivating you; I thought sticking to the guide strictly was the best way through
n6: mircea_popescu: How can I find out?
mircea_popescu: does it exist and so you got a path problem, or does it not exist so you got a failed to build problem
mircea_popescu: well i dunno, but in worst case find / -iname ?
n6: trinque: this guide went much better then yesterday with aws
mircea_popescu: "did it work ?" "oh, no, but it failed more pleasantly"
trinque: it is a trail of tears
BingoBoingo imagines if president trump is that will complain more about the president being a nigger
n6: I found it.. thanks for the help.
mircea_popescu: ok, so did you find it in /usr/lib/grub/x86_64-efi/ ?
n6: no but I couldn't get efi to build.
n6: only works with PC
n6: pc*
mircea_popescu: that's your problem thenm
mircea_popescu: no efi built no sh
n6: How do I build efi?
mircea_popescu: hey, you wouldn't be trying to build a 64 bit thing on a 32 bit machine would you ?
n6: only the first 3 times.
n6: What do I need to change to get it work?
trinque: n6: that var referencing grub
trinque: lemme see
trinque: well did you go with lilo? because that would then be elilo
n6: no i'm going to stick with the guide and do grub
trinque: mircea_popescu: this is where it's sorta hard to mask the essential complexity if the thing without making decisions for people
trinque: either I tell the guy set compatibility mode in the bios or I say get another boot loader
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo srsly, an itunes gift card ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24976 @ 0.00056825 = 14.1926 BTC [-] {2}
hanbot: ;;later tell mod6 successfully installed v0.5.3.1-RELEASE (boost downloaded automagically this run). will put together a recounting of steps and all, and move on to patching my way to stator.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: i should start a liveblabla gift free blowjobs.
mircea_popescu: gotta be better than ishit.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: "laundering" for sure. I mean private digital currency.
trinque: n6: if going down the efi route, you will have to take instruction from
assbot: GRUB2 - Gentoo Wiki ... ( )
n6: what bootload will get this working right now and not lead to a 4th install
trinque: n6: switching to "CSM" mode in the efi settings
n6: how?
trinque: there's some key when you first boot up to get into the settings, enter on mine
mircea_popescu: mats the south china sea is a headache innit now.
n6: so my options are a 4th install with a bios setting or a 4th install?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You mean SCC isn an init?
mats: mircea_popescu: and USG is powerless to project power.
mircea_popescu: it's waning, that's for sure.
BingoBoingo: South China Sea. It's been reduced to an init system.
mats: carrier groups are formidable, sure, but DoD is well aware of their vulnerability
mircea_popescu: no idea why the aussies are trying to go after the proved-to-fail system (ships) instead of outright copying the chiense (missile batteries) but hey.
mircea_popescu: "jubs in teh sector" or some bs
mats: a few well placed ATGMs, and everyone goes home
mircea_popescu: moreover : china has proved its ability to build 1k powerplants/year
BingoBoingo: South China Seas is roughly equivalent right now to linking war.o
mircea_popescu: it can churn out 100k of the damned things. there's no defending against missiles if "missiles" means, six digit moving items
mircea_popescu: aegis can't even track that many, because "nobody could have foreseen how useless this shit is"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82400 @ 0.00058427 = 48.1438 BTC [+] {6}
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> aegis can't even track that many, because "nobody could have foreseen how useless this shit is" << I honestly have no idea what the limit is becasue seekrits.
n6: trinque: I still cant get in an efi folder after changing grub_platforms file and emerge grub again
mircea_popescu: practically speaking, even a dozen requires a veteran crew.
trinque: n6: the guide you followed did not account at all for EFI
trinque: in the EFI case there's even another partition you must have
trinque: the CSM thing I suggested is a way of setting EFI computers into a compatibility mode that behaves like BIOS
n6: trinque: what will it take for me to not have to make a 4th install here. I read your links still don't understand, last time I went without this step it ended poorly.
trinque: you don't have to trash the whole thing; merely reboot, set CSM, boot the livecd, mount, and chroot again
trinque: but first you must figure out where you changed the system to support EFI and change it back
n6: so the grub_platform? or you mean another place?
trinque: GRUB_PLATFORMS="pc"
trinque: sorry wrong one, one sec
trinque: nvm, I am right
trinque: this is in /etc/portage/make.conf
BingoBoingo: n6: Given a choice at all BIOS is prolly less horribru
trinque: these vars are confusing, because they are split, making them appear to be separate categories
trinque: most actually just enable some USE flags
trinque: maybe prefixed with something
BingoBoingo: !up n6
n6: I changed it back to "pc" but mircea_popescu said that was, 32 bits I have 64?
n6: so I do this 32 bits then edit the bios?
trinque: those were separate concerns
trinque: guide is for 64bit
mircea_popescu: separate concerns.
trinque: if you have a 64bit computer, cool
trinque: change that var then:
trinque: emerge -avDN @world
trinque: ask, verbose, deep, new-use
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00057911 = 20.7321 BTC [-]
trinque: man emerge for more detail
BingoBoingo: Neither enough nor sufficient concerns
trinque: n6: so do you get what we did there?
trinque: changed a setting in portage then told emerge to re-evaluate the currenty set list of desired packages (world) according to them
trinque: *currently
n6: No, trying to work out where I go next, lost my place in the guide now
n6: I still only have /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/
trinque: what's the matter with that? you're going to set CSM
trinque: you have no need for EFI; I wouldn't bother
trinque: n6: try this:
trinque: grub2-install --target i386-pc
n6: ok
n6: tells me grub2-install: error: install device isn't specified.
trinque: what's your hard drive, sda?
n6: I don't know
trinque: n6: remember the partitioning step?
trinque: try ls /dev/sda
n6: No I bought it built
n6: bash: /dev/sda: Permission denied
n6: oh i am sda
trinque: ok. grub2-install /dev/sda
trinque: and if that doesn't work, try with the target flag in there too
trinque: which if it isn't what I put, it's "pc"
trinque: one of the major sources of pain in setting up linux this way is having different things which sound almost the same
trinque: how does grub refer to the system architecture? how does ....
n6: rub2-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/ doesn't exist. Please specify --target or --directory. is what im getting.
n6: wait i might have --target in the wrong place
trinque: somehow you got it to double up the path bizarrely
n6: Um, I'm in way over my head and going on 17 hours of gentoo
n6: and I still yet to get anything work.
trinque: mircea_popescu: perhaps this calls for a video.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.00058526 = 31.604 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: or one of those terminal recording utils
trinque: n6: sounds like you've been hamstrung between efi and CSM (fake bios)
n6: Do they come with backdoors also?
trinque: your grub may have all kinds of knobs twiddled depending on what you did to try efi
trinque: does what come with back doors?
n6: my fake bios
trinque: your everything has back doors
trinque: or who knows; I don't have evidence
trinque: but this decision wont help you in either case
trinque: because in both cases it'd be because of a flaw, and neither you nor I know of the particular flaws in your firmware
n6: I think only edited the grub_platform file to try efi
trinque: the other place you might've would've been /etc/defaults/grub
trinque: rather, default
trinque: but that appears to pertain to the generation of grub's config, not its installation
n6: ls: cannot access /etc/defaults/grub: No such file or directory
trinque: yeah, I was wrong about the plural
n6: I don't have anything in this folder
trinque: so put your whole contents of your terminal after running grub2-install on
n6: How?
n6: er
assbot: dpaste: 32BGXMC ... ( )
trinque: n6: did you run that emerge command?
trinque: it's still asking for efi things
n6: I think so let me try again what was it?
BingoBoingo: Err- Insufficient Blood for Blood God
trinque: lol
trinque: cat /dev/suffering > /dev/null
trinque: n6: emerge -avDN @world
trinque: and take note of what changes it wants to make before saying yes
n6: Total: 0 packages, Size of downloads: 0 KiB
trinque: ok so on my end I'm on efi
trinque: if I add pc to grub platforms
BingoBoingo: <trinque> cat /dev/suffering > /dev/null ;;err suffering can not be null
trinque: but it can happen in a cruel, uncaring void
trinque: such as gentoo
n6: trinque: i'm on pc
trinque: yes, yet grub2-install wants efi stuff
n6: who made this?
trinque: we are trying to discover why
trinque: a horrible economic process.
n6: what about funtoo?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63751 @ 0.0005855 = 37.3262 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: same difference, just gentoo plus some other guy's opinions, but not easier
trinque: he's the original guy iirc but the difference between the distros is not much
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform:
trinque: so that's what mine looks like when adding pc
trinque: !up n6
trinque: so you are already on it
ben_vulpes: aha i showed up in the middle of a gentoo quest i see
trinque: so we at least now rule out that the wrong variant of the package is installed.
trinque: ben_vulpes: I've got my winch
trinque: n6: try this
trinque: grub2-install --target=pc /dev/sda
n6: grub2-install: error: /usr/lib/grub/pc/ doesn't exist. Please specify --target or
n6: wait
trinque: n6: dpaste ls /usr/lib/grub/*
assbot: dpaste: 1ZEAZ7X ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63623 @ 0.00058305 = 37.0954 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: trinque: but do you have a v8 and the electrical system to drive the thing
trinque: just a bad starter on this one
trinque: dropped in installation maybe
ben_vulpes: ksh-sh-sh-sh-sh-shewm
ben_vulpes: ksh-sh-sh-sh-sh-shewm
trinque: n6: i386-pc
n6: trinque: yea?
trinque: I think last time you put the whole path?
trinque: try just that
n6: um, I'm lost again.
trinque: grub2-install --target i386-pc /dev/sda
n6: seems to have worked.
trinque: by god
trinque: n6: cool!
trinque: and well done
n6: I still have to flip the bios
trinque: yep
BingoBoingo: <trinque> same difference, just gentoo plus some other guy's opinions, but not easier << funtoo is actually gentoo with only OG dev's opinions
ben_vulpes: does the character now have a spaceship?
n6: do I need grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg ?
trinque: n6: yup, finish up the guide
trinque: built the kernel?
ben_vulpes: <trinque> oh yeah? go to the portland django girls << you've actually done this?!
trinque: shit no, I just know some derps
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: You ever interview peeps for a customer service job before?
ben_vulpes: in the sense that everything the shop does is customer service...
ben_vulpes: reacharounds
ben_vulpes: half and halfs
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah just didn't want to diverge him from the guide again
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Sing me songs of of success
n6: trinque: doing that now brb.
trinque: mircea_popescu: mod6: this leads me to believe that the default for grub has changed
ben_vulpes: gentle mumblings while i slide the 14-incher in
BingoBoingo: Grub, Grub always changes
ben_vulpes: iono bb i ask questions i don't answer them
trinque: yup, so if the recommendation switches to lilo, someone will have to verify that it works with that CSM mode
trinque: as elilo development has apparently died
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Assume your skull was rendered the consistency of rice pudding with a tack hammer, what would you immagine looking for in customer service folk?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24782 @ 0.0005857 = 14.5148 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <trinque> yup, so if the recommendation switches to lilo, someone will have to verify that it works with that CSM mode << More likely switch to bootstrap
trinque: BingoBoingo: link?
trinque: but that's a good example of a decision a n00b doesn't need to know exists
BingoBoingo: make kernel.c, make install, make clean???
trinque: I missed what you're talking about is all
trinque: there's a bootloader called bootstrap?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Ah bootstrap is the whole linux alf recommends
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: i'm not a derpy bureaucrat, i eat derpy bureaucrats for lunch
trinque: BingoBoingo: oh right, and in fact I pondered that too
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Any insight into what they like. I'm asking for the cause of bleeding some fiat off of Illinois.
ben_vulpes: go in, be humble, pretend to be magnificently stupid and rule-followy while still somewhat savvy
ben_vulpes: "yes massa", in another age
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80000 @ 0.000587 = 46.96 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: trinque: But for a build your first *nix Upgrading OpenBSd to -stable seems best documented
trinque: BingoBoingo: buildroot you meant, right?
BingoBoingo: Is that what it's called
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> "yes massa", in another age << How many weeks do you think I can pull off black face for that affirmative action. I think I might be able to do the six months it takes for Da Union to kick in, but...
trinque: I think what happened here is that grub may have switched the default target
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: notrly my problem
trinque: if this is the case, the guide could specify known good versions of the components installed
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Just seeking you insight as an upstanding 'Murican employer
trinque: this causes a problem in the opposite direction when versions disappear from gentoo
ben_vulpes: <n6> might try openBSD after this.. << openbsd, an os that doesn't take much fucking with where bitcoin might actually build with vs gentoo where its known to build but the os cannot be built by mortals.
ben_vulpes: what a conundrum.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: upstanding?!
assbot: homicide da union - YouTube ... ( )
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: me?!
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Aren't you?
ben_vulpes: by whose metrics?
trinque: I seent him standing up once
trinque: twice even
trinque: n6: how goes?
ben_vulpes: trinque: you've only ever seen me halfway keeled over under a boozeload
trinque: wahaha
n6: still waiting...
BingoBoingo: That's a good question
ben_vulpes off to sing at the wee gestational bairn
trinque: is this problem solved by someone just signing a disk image and being done with it?
trinque: mircea_popescu: ^
assbot: FLAGS DA UNION - YouTube ... ( )
trinque: boot livecd, use dd, reboot
BingoBoingo: trinque: No, because filesystems need drivers
trinque: BingoBoingo: sure, just ship a kernel with all modules built and an initrd
trinque: livecd does the same
trinque: as do the ubuntus and debians
trinque: I also already have tooling that shits out these disk images.
trinque: sounds like syslinux with dd on it and the thing could even be a script that says hi, which drive do you want me to obliterate?
trinque: you hit a number, dd runs and it reboots
trinque: easy
n6: I still need grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg ?
trinque: n6: yeah do everything the guide says
trinque: that one makes the grub config file
BingoBoingo: I go outside to piss on the runty rose bush to give it much needed nitrogen and coyote darts out from behind my own motorcarriage an nips me on the shin.
BingoBoingo: Now I gotta dig a hole.
n6: wish my luck going to flip the bios
BingoBoingo: Fucking wild dogs that think they are small dogs ruining my chill weekday drinking night.
trinque: fuck that
n6: works,
trinque: n6: hey good job
trinque: you've got a computer that's quite useful for development now
BingoBoingo: *All lines tonight were "acting" per * Fuck it. Into the ditch with this bitch I'll deal with it in the morning
assbot: The crime of being American on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35950 @ 0.00058706 = 21.1048 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: !up n6
n6: but im so beat down
n6: How would someone get gentoo installed without this level of support?
BingoBoingo: Whips?
trinque: I think the lesson here is that at least with current materials, they can't
trinque: I'm thinking a screen recording of the whole process would be helpful
punkman: n6, I usually give up long before
BingoBoingo: Nao hospitals have cranes for FUPA
assbot: Screenshot 2015 07 26 19 36 38 - SLiMGUR ... ( )
trinque: I think it took me days to install gentoo the first time
trinque: 17hrs isn't an awful score
trinque: "put together this car engine"
trinque: haha
BingoBoingo: Shit /= Chocolate
trinque: BingoBoingo: I depressed the shit out of myself listening to a Trump speech earlier
BingoBoingo: trinque: WHy do you think I drink?
trinque: idiots are going to eat up his pandering tough guy act
trinque: I see him as viable
trinque: look what the real estate bubble farted up
BingoBoingo: He's no more viable than the coyote I may or may not have kicked int he face in this past hour for the same reasons. He neck isn't strong. One swift kick to the neck and his head is in the wrong place.
trinque: I don't think for a moment that anyone outside the US will buy his act
trinque: he makes us look really weak
BingoBoingo: He looks really weak.
BingoBoingo: If he skips his aspirin he could clot out.
BingoBoingo: But as I said earlier media is proposing a Trump vs. Killed HP contest
punkman: << got a buddy that's getting ready to move to Sweden, utterly convinced their shit doesn't stink, "advanced society", etc.
assbot: Who pays for Sweden's free lunch? - The Local ... ( )
assbot: World's Heaviest Woman Attempts To Lose Weight To Wed - YouTube ... ( )
trinque: mod6: since grub is slow moving, might want to peg the guide to the current release with emerge =sys-boot/grub-2.02_beta2-r7 (or earlier) and use
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:14:16; trinque: grub2-install --target i386-pc /dev/sda
trinque: mod6: might also benefit from mentioning CSM on newer computers
punkman: and an anecdote from Belgium. Greek woman's parents, mined/shoveled coal. Greek woman was maid in hotel, a little later worked the hotel bar. She gets pregnant, goes on leave. When leave is over, manager helpfully fires her so he can spend time with kid and claim unemployment benefits.
punkman: Later, gets job offer through unemployment office. Manager asks if she has kids, oh you do? and you like them? naturally I won't hire you, so you can keep collecting unemployment. Next job, didn't look so great, she complains asks for different one. As the years pass, fewer job offers to fend off.
punkman: Old woman, still on unemployment now.
mats: genius.
punkman: Oldest son works the Big Four mines. Not rich, but paying off the loans for a couple apartment buildings.
punkman: I'm guessing the cycle will be complete next generation.
trinque: !up n6
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27090 @ 0.00058654 = 15.8894 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28372 @ 0.00058305 = 16.5423 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18254 @ 0.00058305 = 10.643 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147469 @ 0.00058155 = 85.7606 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164584 @ 0.00056136 = 92.3909 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00058716 = 22.8112 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00058717 = 23.1932 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68887 @ 0.00057102 = 39.3359 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18706 @ 0.00058717 = 10.9836 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00056078 = 13.5148 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5071 @ 0.00056047 = 2.8421 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31650 @ 0.00058306 = 18.4538 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @ 0.00057839 = 17.6987 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142292 @ 0.00057057 = 81.1875 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108150 @ 0.00058306 = 63.0579 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23947 @ 0.00058306 = 13.9625 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00058306 = 37.1409 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126860 @ 0.00058252 = 73.8985 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96143 @ 0.00056046 = 53.8843 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56000 @ 0.00056046 = 31.3858 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: There's a Firefox Exploit in the Wild—You Should Update Right Now ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.00056338 = 30.7605 BTC [+]
chetty: update right now!!! red flag for me, don't do it!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @ 0.00056338 = 24.1408 BTC [+]
shinohai: I am sure that update that was rushed out totally fixes all problems. You can trust us!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00057792 = 16.4707 BTC [+]
cazalla: <<< i sit down with a beer on a friday night after a long hard week to catch up on logs and /r/coontown :\
assbot: Logged on 06-08-2015 01:16:51; BingoBoingo: Oh, so /r/coontown was banned
shinohai: cazalla: I think they are on voat somewhere, /v/niggers if memory serves ...
shinohai: Wait, there is a /v/coontown too
cazalla: too much effort shinohai, voat isn't that lulzy, it is just the more dedicated post 24/7 nigger hate type of shit
shinohai: I haven't made up my mind yet if I care about voat enough to keep participating.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85950 @ 0.00057162 = 49.1307 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61900 @ 0.00058838 = 36.4207 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 245850 @ 0.00059168 = 145.4645 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 229200 @ 0.00059339 = 136.005 BTC [+] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103350 @ 0.00059387 = 61.3765 BTC [+]
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo Haz you ever tried this browser?
assbot: The-Compiler/qutebrowser · GitHub ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: <n6> Um, I'm in way over my head and going on 17 hours of gentoo << take your picture with your sad face next to a screen with gentoo failing on it, i'll pay you 0.1 BTC. just to prove a point.
mircea_popescu: and just you, i don't wanna be fucking bankrupt over here.
shinohai: My only failure this week seems to be eulora, which I intend to remedy by not running on a shitty laptop.
mircea_popescu: should work.
mircea_popescu: shinohai no but i just feel for the guy, gentoo is the last thing that made me want to burn the world, and through a very similar process as he describes.
shinohai: I value my sanity which is why I just stick to Debian mainly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.00058571 = 24.307 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: << so your "Eating for breakfast" saying does after all have a figurative meaning, just not the one commonly used. more in the vein of
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:21:08; ben_vulpes: "yes massa", in another age
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115979 @ 0.00059608 = 69.1328 BTC [+] {6}
shinohai: ^ Breakfast at La Serenissma hotel
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:23:31; trinque: if this is the case, the guide could specify known good versions of the components installed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00057851 = 18.0495 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: << aha. shoot the concept of "updates" in the head.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:26:16; trinque: is this problem solved by someone just signing a disk image and being done with it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64772 @ 0.00057489 = 37.2368 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: fuck alf's "fit in head". if it's large enough to ever need updating it shouldn't have made in the first place.
mircea_popescu: i want an os made out of fucking pipes.
mircea_popescu: "everything that runs on this machine is fifty lines of code or less. one display page."
mircea_popescu: "so what do you do ?!"
mircea_popescu: this | that | tee | here & there.
mircea_popescu: << if you actually got bit by a coyote you must go get your rabies shots right now. the chickenshits don't dare attack humans, especially not adult males or when they're alone.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:38:12; BingoBoingo: *All lines tonight were "acting" per * Fuck it. Into the ditch with this bitch I'll deal with it in the morning
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51850 @ 0.00057464 = 29.7951 BTC [-]
chetty: fifty lines of code or less// so why even bother with a computer, just do it all in your head
shinohai: I just read that artice earlier this morning. Twas quite good.
mircea_popescu: chetty i can dream!
mircea_popescu: << oh get the fuck out. making a baby takes half an hour tops. what is this!
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:43:11; trinque: 17hrs isn't an awful score
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34750 @ 0.00057438 = 19.9597 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: punkman he's probably in it for the titties. until he discovers some discoveries. which is in the end the point of both travel and being a young male.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 13:29:10; mircea_popescu: fuck alf's "fit in head". if it's large enough to ever need updating it shouldn't have made in the first place.
mircea_popescu: it is it is.
mircea_popescu: BUT I GOTTA BRAND IT!
asciilifeform: << you just described the dataflow box, aha
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 13:29:19; mircea_popescu: i want an os made out of fucking pipes.
mircea_popescu: may i grow up into an adult as a personal process and in my own terms ? huh ? HUH ???
asciilifeform: (even bad old unix can satisfy if inserted into orifice correctly, e.g., )
assbot: Logged on 06-08-2015 23:24:40; ascii_field: diff -uNr a b | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{"sha512sum \"" $2 "\"" | getline x; split(x, a, " "); print $0 " " a[1]} !m { print $0 }'
mircea_popescu: it's one of the precursors. i saw that and i went "fucking hell, pipes. again. the solution."
asciilifeform: seriez of tooobz
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 07:12:05; mats: genius.
mircea_popescu: i know pretty much everyone here is very down on the whole concept, and perhaps you're right. but in point of fact, that thinking is at least in part supported by refusal to consider the plain fact that THERE IS NOTHING USEFUL FOR MOST WOMEN TO DO.
mircea_popescu: computers replaced secretaries. drones replaced soldiers. robots replaced coal miners. better detergents replaced the maid.
asciilifeform: (or most anyone...)
mircea_popescu: other than stay the fuck at home and have babies, or else go to the bar and dance (the vertical bar ; nude dance) there is jack for her to do.
mircea_popescu: this entire "monkey with electric typerwriter" pseudo-occupation play-pretend-job that unites gawker, reddit and 4chan is NOT IN FACT WORK
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is, this used to be handled by being kept as pet
mircea_popescu: it's play-pretend work, for the intellectually immature girlies not yet ready to make their own dolls, still playing with barbie
mircea_popescu: and thinking making a bit of plastic "go naked to tea party" is a big todo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it still is. who wants most people as pets ? not even the coyotes.
chetty: some very limited thinking going on here
asciilifeform: aha, did say.
asciilifeform: in fact this is readily observable
Adlai: drones have not replaced soldiers, just relocated them into air-conditioned cubicles
asciilifeform: what even is this 'replaced.' nobody cancelled old-fashioned soldiering.
Adlai: the classic soldier is about as useful as the classic knight
mircea_popescu: Adlai no jobsworth could ever replace soldiers.
mircea_popescu: the job of soldier has ended.
asciilifeform: and what, we're to believe that satellite-controlled airplanes replace men ?
mircea_popescu: the soldier himself is as eternal as dirt.
Adlai: "soldier" isn't over, but he can accomplish a lot more from much closer to the AC unit
mircea_popescu: but the original, socialistoid, eisenhowerian proposition that "soldiering's a job - full employment!" died in a pool of its own lye.
mircea_popescu: chetty especially men.
mircea_popescu: it's just, nobody cares about men, women people still care about.
Adlai: until some gaytheist alchemist figures out how to turn jizz into stem cells
mircea_popescu: i don't think it's reproduction based.
mircea_popescu: i actually think its curve-based. women just have better aesthetics.
Adlai: thus, 'gaytheist'
mircea_popescu: just like "the classical antiquity" seems to have made such excellent bronzes mostly because only the excellent ones survived the 9000+ cases where "must melt all bronze to make weapons".
mircea_popescu: people necessarily sort in a situation like that.
Adlai: "gaytheist, adj: caring for neither beauty nor divinity"
chetty: <mircea_popescu> i actually think its curve-based. women just have better aesthetics.// thats a male point of view, I prefer male aesthetics myself
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
mircea_popescu: Adlai the only thing he can accomplish there is ben_vulpes' breakfast.
assbot: Happy Gilmore - Pieces of Shit for Breakfast - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: << how come these never read "devs fuck up "latest version" yet again. you should revert to last-known-good, from 5 years ago."
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 10:53:39; assbot: There's a Firefox Exploit in the Wild—You Should Update Right Now ... ( )
mircea_popescu: how come. i wish to know this. HOW THE FUCK COME!
mircea_popescu: talking of limited thinking.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naturally, engineered (via, e.g., 'gmail won't display in -5yr version' etc)
mircea_popescu: "you roll 22 and bust, you should double your bid!!11"
Adlai: 5yoFF won't load Naphex's Options Emporium
mircea_popescu: who the fuck in his right mind goes for seconds at the place that fucked it up.
mircea_popescu: consumer culture, that's it. "the car you sold me sucked, i want you to give me another one"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for lulz, boot up a -15+ yr. machine with browserz (esp. < ver. 10 'mac') and try reading with it
mircea_popescu: why the everloving fuck would i want a car with better hidden failure modes from the creators of the car that sucked.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i use an antique lynx or an opera from
Adlai has progressed to doing most actual *work* from an X-less 'thin client', never been happier
Adlai: actual software runs on machines younger than a decade (but not much!), but it still has to speak text for this box to understand
mircea_popescu: my opera is from 10 years ago. works fucking fine.
assbot: ClubOrlov: Welcome to Fuffland! ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is why specific example of 'gmail' etc, which use scripts
mircea_popescu: fuck jwz with a stick.
mircea_popescu: and i am still reeling over how imbecillic philg got over the years srsly.
mircea_popescu: old fucking age.
asciilifeform: all good & well until you need to display that browsable svg turd
Adlai: d00d, svg is text
asciilifeform: and click on the antecedents etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it doesn't do svg worth a shit.
Adlai: svg is text
Adlai: load that into lisp, M-x slime-inspect, etc etc
assbot: Mad Science Writer: The foreskin: Why is it such a secret in North America? ... ( )
asciilifeform: Adlai: everything is text when you hexdump -C it
mircea_popescu: Adlai but we were discussing browsers.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ironically, because puritans of the 50s thought that the foreskin is a major factor in the disease of gayness
Adlai nominates M-x slime-inspect as a valid web browser, especially after ,ql closure
mircea_popescu: and if ytou cut it off the boys will be protected by Utilihova from becoming filthy fags.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc started off as an antimasturbatory notion
mircea_popescu: worked about as well as you'd expect, on the basis of the record of ustardian puritans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's what they CALLED it.
mircea_popescu: (masturbation, spending time alone, and generally not being a jock also parts of disease of gayness)
mircea_popescu: (explains turing perfectly!)
mircea_popescu: (also nazi party)
Adlai: venn diagram of "jock" and "gay" disagrees...
mircea_popescu: only recently.
shinohai: Eat moar Corn Flakes.
mircea_popescu: and, i might add, symptomatically, for the perspectives of being a libertard, the newly branded ustardian puritan.
shinohai: Kellog also advocated yogurt enemas to fight masturbation, which in my mind was just kink.
Adlai: well they do say that it's useless until it reaches the gut, sounds like optimization to me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20454 @ 0.00057696 = 11.8011 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: shinohai wait, wut ?! link ?
assbot: Kellogg's Corn Flakes invented to stop masturbation and sexual desire | Daily Mail Online ... ( )
mircea_popescu: !rate decimation -1 Guy's been soft working teh #b-a for about a year and a half. Needless to say, it didn't work out.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.decimation.-1:e02efb9e5119b44094f8e4c6c945e9317990425cc57168b24cb7ab8c0db78d5b
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for decimation with note: Guy's been soft working teh #b-a for about a year and a half. Needless to say, it didn't work out.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28338 @ 0.00057763 = 16.3689 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: OPERATION KETSU-GO ... ( )
ben_vulpes: <Adlai> drones have not replaced soldiers, just relocated them into air-conditioned cubicles << and only until the em wars get serious
mircea_popescu: or the power stays on.
ben_vulpes: oh oh
mircea_popescu: i always wondered if any star trek fans ever wondered what happens to the spaceship once saying "shields up!!" "shoot lasers!!" etc stops returning "enemy destroyed"
asciilifeform: radio-controlled fighting machines are not new. they were tried even by germany as 'wunderwaffen'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform originally tried by michail paleologos as "heavenly host"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: forgive my thickness but what is the breakfast reference?
asciilifeform: american sailors would turn on electric razor, sparks, and winged rocket fell into the sea.
Adlai: it really just depends on the war
mircea_popescu: didn't you say you eat them for breakfast ?
asciilifeform: modern machines are ~slightly~ harder to jam.
mircea_popescu: Adlai "war. war never changes."
Adlai: ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ben_vulpes: probably, but now i can't find the line in the logz
mircea_popescu: admire the irony of having been defeated by a quote from a videogame, in your quest to defend the videogame war.
mod6: hanbot: good news! thanks for the update
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's five lines up from where you say "yes massa"
ben_vulpes: oh yeah
ben_vulpes: lunch
mircea_popescu is jetlagged.
Adlai: far from a 'videogame war', modern warfare is still quite shitty, but the precise nature (taste, color, proportion of black bile vs yellow) changes
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 14:28:23; *: mircea_popescu is jetlagged.
mircea_popescu: i guess this is to some degree true. war changes to favour offensive or defensive in a cycle. there's an excelent scene in der untergang, where a veteran field officer surveying the killing zone through stereoscopic periscope sees a bunch of green vulksstrums and yells for them to get the very fuck out of there already!
Adlai: it's much easier to look at the nature of warfare and say, "oh, it's changing like this, or like that", but the much more significant changes are in its *objectives*
mircea_popescu: why ? why should he wish for this ? after all, goebbels well observed "their determination" will make up for the lack of weaponry.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64050 @ 0.00057435 = 36.7871 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> why the everloving fuck would i want a car with better hidden failure modes from the creators of the car that sucked. << i was recently at a pitch from wherein the guy who runs the formdump site in question lionized marc andresen, and then displayed a pmarca tweet congratulating him for saying something 'grand' about 'software eating law'
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the vet knew enough from experience to know the war is now a defensive affair, and the only thing that matters is not being killed.
mircea_popescu: and the only thing "being a veteran" means is, "having loaded an endless list of don'ts"
ben_vulpes: why the shit do i want to listen to the asshole responsible for the broswer about how software is going to eat law?
Adlai: "it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left"
mircea_popescu: as orwell well observed, the airplane and the radio turned the war into a game of rats.
asciilifeform: rattenkrieg (tm) (r)
Adlai: both came long after the cannon
Adlai: which is itself dated by the crossbow
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes software is nevertheless eating law. except it happens somewhere other than there.
Adlai: the crossbow is the turning point where war went to shit
mircea_popescu: notrly. recall the unfortunate adventure of one mr orsini ?
ben_vulpes: i'm not arguing the point, i just don't see the point of engaging on 'formalizing the whole legal system' with a guy who generates xml from erb templates and thinks this is a good idea
asciilifeform: Adlai: and was not 'to shit' when turkic recurved bows were bugspraying europeans ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes werd.
asciilifeform: or is 'to shit' only when the affair drags on, rather than over in a day because massacre of the unprepared
Adlai: crossbow marks the point where camping became +EV
mircea_popescu: it's "to shit" every time the contest moves from "who can hold his position in front of enemy with nary a care" to "who can hide best".
mircea_popescu: in this sense it went to shit once legion surpassed phalanx.
ben_vulpes: moreover "software is eating the law in the sense that bitcoin is here and we do gpg contracts now" is...beyond the derps.
mircea_popescu: and it kept going to shit. once english bowmen owned french cataphracts
mircea_popescu: etc etc.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes myeah.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: notice that usg vermin are almost defined by their fondness of 'formalize but not really formalize
asciilifeform: !s rule of law
assbot: 48 results for 'rule of law' :
mircea_popescu: it's this entire "try to find a trend to stand in front of"
ben_vulpes: i finally left when he started talking about fuzzing the robocorps
ben_vulpes: as if!
mircea_popescu: almost like they're a legion of japanese tourists
asciilifeform: where is that canonical mega-turd...
mircea_popescu: "and here's me in front of the sphinx. notice this other guy is speaking to me about the sphinx"
ben_vulpes: anywayz, what's the story with decimation, mircea_popescu?
mircea_popescu: it deeply fascinates me how alf does feel the need to maintain a -publicly stated!!!- corpus of humanities cannon, yet nevertheless does not feel this need about a corpus of software cannon.
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if he respects the scholar and despises the whore^H^H^H^H i mean programmer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not my fault there isn't a canon
mircea_popescu: except subconsciously.
asciilifeform: i despise the despicable
asciilifeform: and respect the respectable.
asciilifeform: like any normal person
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's no story. i dun trust him, an' now you know i don't.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know which of these a group noun falls into chiefly depends on how you examine.
mircea_popescu: lest you end up "despising jews".
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my understanding is that mircea_popescu kicked him for тунеядство.
asciilifeform: (doesn't translate, unfortunately. but you can read about what it is.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00058108 = 40.2688 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: literally something like 'worklesseating'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and it cannot be said that i do not believe in a 'software canon.' just that very few folks have heard of it, just as j. s. bach's music did not play for two centuries at one point. e.g., mccarthy's 'lisp 1.5'; weizenbaum's 'eliza'; ... many others
asciilifeform: there is a canon.
mircea_popescu: yet this same consideration (few foplks heard of) does not prevent you from linking say hasnasj
asciilifeform: but that music isn't playing today, except on the home organs of a few weirdos like yours truly
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's obviously self-healing. mention -> hearing.
ben_vulpes: what eating
mircea_popescu directs questions as to alf's interpretation of phenomena to alf directly.
ben_vulpes: is idling in #b-a now a crime?
ben_vulpes: i lack the cultural contex to appreciate "тунеядство" here
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i finally came up with rough english ver.: 'freeload'
ben_vulpes: again, "what eating"
asciilifeform: of brain cycles, perhaps
mircea_popescu: "Sweden has traditionally relied heavily on the strong protestant work ethic of its citizens. A cornerstone of the country's welfare system has been a population which has been reluctant to misuse the system. Although taxes have been high and government benefits generous, the strong work ethic has stopped people from taking advantage of the welfare state. Alas, this attitude has been largely abandoned. As time has pass
mircea_popescu: ed, people have adapted to the system."
asciilifeform directs questions as to mircea_popescu's exercise of the -1 cannon to mircea_popescu directly
mircea_popescu: how to ruin ethic.
mircea_popescu: lol canon pun!
ben_vulpes: "compliance is a forest of fingers pointing at everyone else"
ben_vulpes: on a more interesting note, did you get a chance to digest my mL of pcap, asciilifeform?
ben_vulpes: i plan to take a hammer to the coracle's blockchain soon, would like to know if you see anything interesting in it
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sadly not. and probably won't today. writing most of a pc os for $redacted.
ben_vulpes: i took a brief hack at figuring out how to parse pcap dumps, but not very successfully
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'wireshark'
ben_vulpes: nooooo
ben_vulpes: really?
asciilifeform: i mean, if for human consumption
mircea_popescu: “Why should I only get this handout only the months that I attend school?” Explaining that he needs money for going out with his friends and buying clothes all year round, the young author concluded: “I don’t have anything against working. But if the government doesn’t make sure that I have a job, it is their responsibility to pay me the handouts all year around”.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if it is to parse automatically on unattended spy satellite, then yes, something else, not wireshark
ben_vulpes: i am unsurprised to learn that software does not produce human parseable output at the command line
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as described in your article re: the herring fishermen, the scandinavians forgot what actual work looks like 1000 years ago.
mircea_popescu: just about.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you want raw packet payloads, tcpdump will disgorge'em.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you want intelligent slice&dice --- wireshark. or write own.
assbot: North Korea Made Its Own Time Zone to Tell Japan to Fuck Off ... ( )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't know what i want - this whole project is an endless barrel of 'wtf'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you only now realized this?!
ben_vulpes: no no just reiterating
ben_vulpes: but with emphasis on the grand scope of my ignorance
ben_vulpes: ofc it makes sense that i'd have to fire up wireshark on this thing eventually
ben_vulpes thinks
ben_vulpes: actually i have!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: recent wireshark actually tries to parse bitcoin
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do not be surprised that cli tools do not put out stuff in a format you don't know
ben_vulpes: past experiments not worth mentioning.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6942 @ 0.00057337 = 3.9803 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i was impressed.
asciilifeform: just when i though i'd have to write a mod for it
asciilifeform: but it isn't tremendously useful, no
asciilifeform: because the inspection isn't stateful
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes will learn soon enough what i meant.
shinohai: <<< isn't this a good use case for your pipes, using sed & awk ?
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 14:52:22; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do not be surprised that cli tools do not put out stuff in a format you don't know
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: a) i don't know any formats and b) i stopped expecting things to behave in any particular way when i realized that "tar" is "tape archive"
ben_vulpes: s/realized/learned
asciilifeform: speaking of tape, i've always lamented that no one sells a reel-to-reel for modern pc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't exactly know how they'd do a better job
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57922 @ 0.00057514 = 33.3133 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: why shouldn't i be able to use arbitrary lengths of tape.
mircea_popescu: you will perhaps notice wireshark is taking a saner view of btc protocol than the power rangers
mircea_popescu: much to everyone else's eternal amusement.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naturally, it is written for folks who do the grunt work
mircea_popescu: or in any case, has some people whoi can actually think in the userbase.
ben_vulpes: anyways, i'm off to coffee, breakfast, fire a girl, do the work she was supposed to do, and then the burbs for a sales meeting
ben_vulpes: RUN MORE RAILS
asciilifeform: rather like a truck or a train, the design cannot be too insane
mircea_popescu: there's basically three types of things in this world : those who have nobody thinking in the userbase and don't care ; those who have some thinking people in the userbase and don't care
ben_vulpes: it keeps ben_vulpes' children fed
mircea_popescu: and the recent adition, those which have some untinking people in the userbase and don't carew.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes works on a railroad ?!!!
asciilifeform: that's new
mircea_popescu: he also digs up stones in congo.
asciilifeform: ah ~that~ railroad
mircea_popescu: failroad.
asciilifeform bbl, off to dig up some stones
mircea_popescu: << this is an excellent anatomy write-up but (as is common for the past five centuries for some reason), a very poor phisiopathology write-up. of particular note : phimosis IS an actual pathologic state even if broadly misused. and dxo and a number of other genuine afflictions of the prepuce do legitimately exist.
assbot: Mad Science Writer: The foreskin: Why is it such a secret in North America? ... ( )
mircea_popescu: (bxo*. balanitis xerotica obliterans)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114100 @ 0.00058343 = 66.5694 BTC [+]
assbot: dpaste: 2PMRDRP ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @ 0.00059508 = 29.0102 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: Incentivising full nodes by having SPV nodes to pay for data requests | Luv Khemani | Aug 03 2015 : bitcoin_devlist ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 235850 @ 0.00060182 = 141.9392 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93250 @ 0.00060387 = 56.3109 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai: !seen assbot
kakobrekla: assy doesnt do seen
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106027 @ 0.00060463 = 64.1071 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1823 @ 0.0006055 = 1.1038 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << if you actually got bit by a coyote you must go get your rabies shots right now. the chickenshits don't dare attack humans, especially not adult males or when they're alone. << "acting" work of fiction it seems.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:38:12; BingoBoingo: *All lines tonight were "acting" per * Fuck it. Into the ditch with this bitch I'll deal with it in the morning
punkman: !rate williamdunne 1 small btc/gbp trade
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
BingoBoingo creatively thinking outloud and venting my hate at the noise machines
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76500 @ 0.00058014 = 44.3807 BTC [-] {4}
mike_c: mpoe flirting with 60.. what a bull run.
mike_c: short! short!
mike_c: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00810003 / 0.0090831 / 0.01369000 (55 shares, 0.49957045 BTC), 30D: 0.00056038 / 0.01109156 / 0.01420000 (650 shares, 7.20951573 BTC)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aha.
mircea_popescu: mike_c h8r
mike_c: Just a contrarian. I have no idea if it's headed to 80 or 40.
ben_vulpes: dip was pretty short...
mircea_popescu: mike_c btw, am i ever gonna see you in game ? ?!?! ?!? ?!? !???
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.0005842 = 14.0208 BTC [+]
mike_c: A good question. Short answer - yes. Long answer, I wonder if Eulora in its current state is good for a casual/short-on-time gamer.
mike_c: It seems like I would love it like I love Total War - If I have 20 hours a week to play it would be awesome.
mircea_popescu: it is much easier to get +ev if you play casually than if you play intensively.
mike_c: Hm. Ok, well, then I will start aiming my 30-45 daily mins of play at Eulora then.
mircea_popescu: did i ever get you a starter package ?
mike_c: I got some lil bits of nothing
mircea_popescu: and skills ?
mike_c: I got some of my own skills exploring
chetty: low level players on eulora are in some demand
mike_c: Drank the murky what-not and cleared my head
mircea_popescu: yeah, you're needed to overcraft high level items for high level crafters to get them bps
mircea_popescu: and you can always mine, and low q mined stuff fetches a high % premium relative to their net value
mircea_popescu: the challenge in eulora, much like in business, is to scale up while maintaining profitability.
mike_c: I'll start poking again and see if danielpbarron can make use of me. He seems to be king of the land :)
mircea_popescu: what doesn't work is the 'i made a level in five minutes so i'll make 500 levels in 20 hours' linear thing from grinder mmorpgs.
mircea_popescu: eulora's very not linear.
mike_c: I'm not so worried about +ev though. I already have a job.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand yesterday i bought ~10mn worth of thorns.
mike_c: hehe
mircea_popescu: it can add up to dough.
mike_c: hopefully Eulora will accomodate me - someone who is perfectly happy with -ev as long as I'm having fun. This should help supply the people who are more interested in the money.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42666 @ 0.00060566 = 25.8411 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: well if it doesn't i wanna hear about it.
mircea_popescu: the game is very deeply meta atm, from what i've seen
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67871 @ 0.00060577 = 41.1142 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35777 @ 0.0005842 = 20.9009 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @ 0.00060642 = 23.1956 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: mmmwhahahahaah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34148 @ 0.00060673 = 20.7186 BTC [+]
assbot: 3-D Printer Firms Fall Flat, as Buyers Wait for New Models - WSJ ... ( )
mircea_popescu: "let's redo the videogame winter because we're unique special snowflakes and who needs management"
punkman: I like how "fall flat" means losing 10s of millions of bezzlars
mircea_popescu: the only difference being that the usg was not either powerful enough or attentive enough to give a shit either way about consoles in the 80s.
mircea_popescu: whereas it sure as shit doesn't want any more of that "printed gun" nonsense.
shinohai: I don't think that guy coud get *any* project off the ground. Darkwallet is a fail for sure.
mircea_popescu: "The strategy for Ketsu-Go was outlined in an 8 April 1945 Army Directive.(4) It stated that the Imperial Army would endeavor to crush the Americans while the invasion force was still at sea. They planned to deliver a decisive blow against the American naval force by initially destroying as many carriers as possible, utilizing the special attack forces of the Air Force and Navy. When the amphibious force approached wit
mircea_popescu: hin range of the homeland airbases, the entire air combat strength would be employed in continual night and day assaults against these ships. In conducting the air operations, the emphasis would be on the disruption of the American landing plans. The principal targets were to be the troop and equipment transports. Those American forces which succeeded in landing would be swiftly attacked by the Imperial Army in order t
mircea_popescu: o seek the decisive victory. The principal objective of the land operation was the destruction of the American landing force on the beach."
mircea_popescu: happens to be the correct strategy.
mircea_popescu: (and yes, its perspectives for success are broadly why nuclear detonations were perfectly justified)
mircea_popescu: would have made japan into a sort of north korea.
mircea_popescu: "One campaign unit of fire was sufficient ammunition for one campaign - generally understood to be a three month supply.(21) This called for the following rounds per weapon: 1,000 rounds per field piece, 25,000 rounds per machine gun, and 240 rounds per rifle." << contrary to what one would expect on the basis of "aciton movies", the expected rate of fire of a rifle in war is ~2 shots/day.
mircea_popescu: !up King_Rex
King_Rex: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: sure. who're you ?
King_Rex: lurker, very interested in deedbot and the bitcoin foundation and your node efforts
shinohai: !up ascii_field
King_Rex: i am kicking myself for not joing the wot in '11
King_Rex: i will do so soon
mircea_popescu: good idea.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 13:28:54; mircea_popescu: << aha. shoot the concept of "updates" in the head.
trinque: sounds like a disk image and accompanying livecd which can deploy it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00060673 = 2.3056 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:26:16; trinque: is this problem solved by someone just signing a disk image and being done with it?
mircea_popescu: well, it can be a signed binary, but only after it is a pile of source.
trinque: certainly; I've got scripts around building these disk images already
trinque: just need to package it up nicely
mircea_popescu: but yes. being able to tell new people "do or else, AT YOUR OPTION, if you have the time, and the expertise, here'sd the source, read it, sign it, ml the receipt" way beats having to tell new people
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:28:09; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl | gpg -verify > and then run that, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 13:13:30; mircea_popescu: <n6> Um, I'm in way over my head and going on 17 hours of gentoo << take your picture with your sad face next to a screen with gentoo failing on it, i'll pay you 0.1 BTC. just to prove a point.
trinque: right, thing needs a damn on-ramp
trinque: I'll hack on this over the weekend
mircea_popescu: not least of all because i only haver so many btc.
mircea_popescu: and people only have so much frustration dampener.
ascii_field: wai wut
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:30:12; mircea_popescu: and i know this can be done because it's how fucking viruses work.
trinque: in the case of bitcoind dev, sure, barriers are great
trinque: in the case of people wanting to join the WoT and have a real computer, not so great
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20725 @ 0.00060369 = 12.5115 BTC [-]
ascii_field: 'Except... it isn't. Ahh, that exquisite flavour on the roof of your mouth, when "Automatic Updates" pops up a textbox to "inform" you that your OS is "no longer supported"v which can not be closed because the process that spawned it died in a "futex wait me" state as if this is actually a fucking thing, and then it can't be turned off, because if one goes to follow the process that supposedly turns it off that one
ascii_field: discovers the respective variables were zeroed out already.' << win
trinque: !up n6
trinque: n6: btw, you survived gentoo quest; get in the wot :)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field aha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50950 @ 0.0005927 = 30.1981 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: I will base this cd on the amd64-nomultilib guide unless there are objections
trinque: it seems like using an alternative libc might cause unnecessary n00b pain
ascii_field: death to glibc.
trinque: well, I agree
trinque: hence request for comment
ascii_field: not 'for n00bz', not for dogs, not for cats
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9772 @ 0.00058638 = 5.7301 BTC [-]
ascii_field: not fit for life
diametric: mircea_popescu: ty ty
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: !up King_Rex
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 178150 @ 0.00060814 = 108.3401 BTC [+] {8}
ascii_field: << these are not 'the 3d printer firms'. well, they are, but they make 'golden toilets' that no hobbyist ever touched
ascii_field: they are '3d printer' in the same sense that sco 'is' unix
punkman: I've touched them
punkman: but I know plenty of golden-toilet in that area
ascii_field: i did too. a 'stratasys' was sold for a couplea hundy at my university's surplus shop
ascii_field: the giant powder-sintering thing
ascii_field: complete with sandblast cabinet
ascii_field: and 'glove box'
diametric: ^ powder-gluing z-corp. similar but instead of melting powder together, it glues it with an inkjet type nozzle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12575 @ 0.00061007 = 7.6716 BTC [+]
ascii_field: ^ probably it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86222 @ 0.00061217 = 52.7825 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: BuzzFeed's Editor-In-Chief 'accidentally' leaked private DMs ... ( )
shinohai is now seeing why ascii_field hates glibc so much
assbot: Trump Hair History ... ( )
assbot: Hillary Hair History ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63800 @ 0.00061385 = 39.1636 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: i musta missed the memo on eulora being an okay casual play
ben_vulpes: might try again, ask for pointers
danielpbarron: at the very least you should all get the craftbot and leave it running overnight
danielpbarron: and coming soon, a mining bot
ben_vulpes: right.
ben_vulpes: explorationbot?
danielpbarron: it's the new early adopter bitcoin mining!
danielpbarron: i guess it's supposed to explore and build the tiny/small claims as it goes
ben_vulpes: i'd not mind learning a bit more about the thing so's i can have some fun automating it
danielpbarron: and hopefully lock the ordinary/remarkables
ben_vulpes: 'twas always my gripe with eve.
danielpbarron: botting is not only allowed, not only encouraged, but rewarded!
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: there are prizes available for writing these things
ben_vulpes: plus i feel thooper thtupid asking all of the "how ams" questions i had about eulora last time
ascii_field: almost forgot, from last night:
ben_vulpes: right right
ascii_field: mircea_popescu, mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: diff -uNr a b | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $0 " " o} !m { print $0 }'
ascii_field: achtung, panzers ^^^
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^^^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: now there's some perl.
ascii_field: no perl!
ben_vulpes: i know, just ribbing
ascii_field: this inserts 'false' in place of sha512's of files which do not exist in a (or b)
ascii_field: ergo is a complete solution to the antecedent-embedding diff which i suggested to mircea_popescu earlier this week.
ascii_field: wrote before going to bed last night, forgot to post.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19056 @ 0.00061385 = 11.6975 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: nifty indeed
ascii_field: the 'patch' on my systems eats these happily, disregarding the extra bit
ascii_field: others - please say if this is/is not the case on theirs.
ben_vulpes: i'll have to cook up a test case or so
assbot: Call off the bee-pocalypse: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high - The Washington Post ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00061492 = 20.8458 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.00061505 = 24.5712 BTC [+]
assbot: La Serenissima fender flags: a modest proposal | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
shinohai: !up ascii_field
gernika: General question - is there value in continuing to test stator, and future versions of it, on OpenBSD? Or should I abandon that and just test on Gentoo from now on?
jurov: why not?
ascii_field: test on 'minix' if you feel like.
ben_vulpes: mod6 has a hardon for openbsd
ben_vulpes: twould please him no end to see test reports coming in from that platform
gernika: Because I won't be able to build it "deterministically" without rotor. Was my thinking.
ben_vulpes: i still maintain hope that libressl can be used too
trinque: ben_vulpes: also happens to have an installer that isn't a field of broken glass
ascii_field: who knows, the day may come when we gotta get the cosmoline grease off bsd and run it. like the ww2 tanks taken off their monument pedestals and sent to fight in donetsk
ben_vulpes: who knows, we may have to take a dependency on forthos too
trinque: parted doesn't even work right; I just bitched about it in #parted
ascii_field: l0lwut
trinque: can't just fart a bunch of command into it like an interpreter
trinque: though the --script flag would suggest otherwise
gernika: Incidentally I spent about 1hr attempting to build rotor on OpenBSD - got buried in tiny differences between bsd/linux.
trinque: gernika: please do make note of these differences
trinque: and post to the ML
ascii_field: gernika: that thing exists for linux !
ascii_field: to get out of glibc !
trinque: oh right, derp
shinohai hopes ascii_field will post a rotor build log for arm folks soon ...
trinque: quick googling suggests people have tried it
gernika: Ah right. No problems building statically on OpenBSD.
deedbot-: accepted: 1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90461 @ 0.00061497 = 55.6308 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: alt-libc: The state of uClibc and musl in Gentoo (part 1) | Anthony G. Basile ... ( )
ascii_field: ^ pretty much nothing about musl
assbot: The “Gentoo Reference System” suite: a new Release Engineering tool. | Anthony G. Basile ... ( )
ben_vulpes: attn trinque
ascii_field: ^ appealing idea. but unless he does the decidedly un-sexy step of 'closing the universe' and nailing down packages ~FOREVER~ - it will fall apart. in exactly the same way every other distro did.
ben_vulpes: seems like a similar approach to what trb and eulora are doing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85005 @ 0.00061333 = 52.1361 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: imho ^ is doomed on account of video boards
ascii_field: at least the 'nail down' part is
ascii_field: N years from now, they will be forced to permit crapolade that does not exist at this moment
ascii_field: or face the choice of asking players to buy vintage cards
ben_vulpes: i imagined a path the other night where chetty actually stopped maintaining her owhn client
ben_vulpes: in favor of a few different text based ones
ascii_field: l0l text-based
ascii_field: what, it'll be a '80s mud ?
ben_vulpes: what did eve need graphics for?
ascii_field: ask mircea_popescu, who paid a pretty penny to commission the graphics
ascii_field: and who, if the screenshots on his www are anything to go on, is playing the video version
ben_vulpes: i think you misunderstand the question.
ben_vulpes: eve, the game.
ben_vulpes: arguably needed nographics.
ben_vulpes: in fact those who run its economy rarely even leave the spreadsheets
trinque: if I'm taking this on I'm hesitant to use someone else's tool
ben_vulpes: "spreadsheets in space" (tm)
ben_vulpes: trinque: more for consideration
trinque: I am doing more or less what's described there
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> twould please him no end to see test reports coming in from that platform << certainly let me know how it goes. yeah, might have issues with rotor on there. I'm still sync'ing my obsd bitcoind build (patched up through -verifyall).
danielpbarron: i play the video version; it's not so bad
danielpbarron: but at the moment, most of the things I do, do not require seeing the 3d world
danielpbarron: in the future i imagine there will be epic battles between guilds or whatever, and in that case the 3d world will be necessary
ben_vulpes: if i recall the con3-versations on the topic, pve's the real game
ben_vulpes: all ps vs the e
ben_vulpes: but who knows
danielpbarron: what is that? player vs everyone?
ben_vulpes: players vs environment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00061558 = 24.3154 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: i'm pretty sure there's going to also be PvP
ben_vulpes: grues becoime valueable, everyone goes for them, hunts into extinction, their prey emerges
ben_vulpes: myeah
ben_vulpes: i just recall faint intimations that it wasn't quite the focus as it is in eve or wow
ben_vulpes: how then to hold territory i guess is a question
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes: i have no idea, disregard
danielpbarron: understandable, as PvP only makes sense when the first 'M' in MMO becomes reality
trinque: seems an environment to learn how to think in terms of economics
trinque: economic survival game
trinque: within that category both pve and pvp make sense
danielpbarron: yes it is that first and foremost as is any accurate simulation of human life
trinque: player-vs-life
trinque: danielpbarron: indeed
danielpbarron: there are like.. 12 players right now. wouldn't make much sense for us to start killing each other (not that death has been implemented yet)
danielpbarron: speaking of which, come get your subsidized-by-no-death freebees in bare-handed gathering while it lasts
danielpbarron: every /explore is a chance to get $MAXINT (no, seriously)
trinque: maybe when I win at gentoo rpg
ben_vulpes: remember
ben_vulpes: gentoo rpg is now just a subquest of bitcoinrpg
danielpbarron plays eulora on gentoo
trinque: ben_vulpes: yar
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112900 @ 0.00060557 = 68.3689 BTC [-] {7}
trinque: bitcoin, the magnetic field pulling all iron filaments into alignment
chetty: <ben_vulpes> in favor of a few different text based ones//I like it
ben_vulpes: in other news, americans still can't manage:
assbot: What We Got Wrong About Self-Management ... ( )
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: that's the best time to kill each other. don't you play minecraft?
danielpbarron: used to play minecraft
danielpbarron: i played on MCPVP, the most hardcore pvp server there was
danielpbarron: specialized in tracking down bases and selling the coordinates to raid parties
danielpbarron: few things in this world more satisfying then pwning someone's loot stash
trinque: ben_vulpes: "seeking a flat structure was a misperception of what self-management means" << wahahahaha
trinque: our solution was to redefine the word!
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: you ever play a tale in the desert?
danielpbarron: i don't know what that is, so no
danielpbarron: hahha yeah right i'm gonna play some game that isn't eulora
danielpbarron: until recently i had given up on computer gaming completely
thestringpuller: lol. playing a game isn't a requisite for reading about it?
thestringpuller: iirc chetty said it was an inspiration.
danielpbarron: ah, actually i may have actually tried this
danielpbarron: long ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58385 @ 0.00060369 = 35.2464 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23585 @ 0.00060369 = 14.238 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13995 @ 0.00059776 = 8.3657 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56718 @ 0.0006057 = 34.3541 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94333 @ 0.00060094 = 56.6885 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64300 @ 0.0006077 = 39.0751 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62371 @ 0.00059077 = 36.8469 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85800 @ 0.00058414 = 50.1192 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00059959 = 27.5212 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34153 @ 0.00059959 = 20.4778 BTC [+]
jurov beacme involuntary participant in underhanded C contest
assbot: #Eulora log for Friday, 2015-08-07 ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118000 @ 0.00057821 = 68.2288 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36807 @ 0.00057059 = 21.0017 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.0005706 = 9.1581 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 18:12:58; ben_vulpes: i'd not mind learning a bit more about the thing so's i can have some fun automating it
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 18:13:49; ascii_field: mircea_popescu, mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: diff -uNr a b | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $0 " " o} !m { print $0 }'
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 18:44:44; gernika: General question - is there value in continuing to test stator, and future versions of it, on OpenBSD? Or should I abandon that and just test on Gentoo from now on?
mircea_popescu: the criteria for being "ba canonical os" is for it to fucking work, not for it to be fucking unique.
trinque: I have put some work into this today. I converted mod6's guide to a script which builds a bootable root.img
mircea_popescu: << hey, there was no problem asking players to buy specified cards for 20 yeasrs, and telling players "You can't play for lack of specified card"
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 19:03:20; ascii_field: or face the choice of asking players to buy vintage cards
trinque: used lilo too
mircea_popescu: THIS NEED NOT CHANGE.
mircea_popescu: except, fuck "progress". learn tradition.,
mircea_popescu: you want to play, get a real card. FROM THE PAST.
mircea_popescu: breakage is breakage. we're doing it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.0005706 = 5.1925 BTC [+]
trinque: mircea_popescu: thought here is to image a USB drive, and have that thing be able to push-button image a computer it has booted
chetty: nest we will need a time machine
trinque: iso's easily done too
mircea_popescu: chetty no. the "use specified card, spec=future" thing is braindamaged. nobody has cards from the future.
mircea_popescu: the "use specified card, spec = p[ast" is sustainable.
mircea_popescu: cards from the past were made, and therefore can be made. period and full fucking stop.
mircea_popescu: break the entire usian industry that relies on "new".
chetty: ok, time machine to go in the past and retieve useable cards ..
mircea_popescu: no more of that. all the way down to the bedrock.
mircea_popescu: if they were dumb enough to lose the recipes, they'll have to reimplement based on our os.
mircea_popescu: this "progress" bullshit is dumb and must die. there's nothing in the future but a buggy, half assed, stupid reimplementation of the past.
mircea_popescu: and no, technology doesn't "change everything". technology changes nothing and never did.
chetty: well cars smell better than horses
mircea_popescu: do they now.
mircea_popescu: i never heard of horse smog.
mircea_popescu: "Error : Your videocard is not old enough for you to be here. Get an older videocard and come back". this is what i wish to see.
mircea_popescu: ubiquitously.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:45:19; mircea_popescu: break the entire usian industry that relies on "new".
jurov: hardware does break down.... will mircea_popescu take over chinese factories to manufacture old stuff?
trinque: problem to worry about when the metric shitloads of old hardware available everywhere vanish
danielpbarron: i bought this laptop (the one on which I play Eulora) specifically for its video card; at the time I needed to be able to play Dota and minecraft on linux
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123200 @ 0.00057021 = 70.2499 BTC [-] {6}
trinque: scrap shop nearby has entirely passable computers for 50 bucks
mircea_popescu: jurov yes.
mircea_popescu: will you take over the writing of your language and write stuff jurov ?
mircea_popescu: da fuck question is this.
mircea_popescu: i'm not twelve.
mircea_popescu: if i'm not taking it over, who the fuck is, "the state" ? aliens ? chtulhu ?
mircea_popescu: i ain't waiting for jwz to wake up.
mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.
mircea_popescu: << eulora client is actually community maintained. always has been.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 19:03:22; ben_vulpes: i imagined a path the other night where chetty actually stopped maintaining her owhn client
mircea_popescu: and there's no particular intention for there to only be one.
mircea_popescu: << i am, and i did, and i see no problem with any of this. you may go to a museum whether you wish to take notes or draw copies, why should anyone care ? "oh but the statues were expensive to make, how dare you write abnout them, you should draw! el minimo respeto!!11" ??
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 19:04:47; ascii_field: and who, if the screenshots on his www are anything to go on, is playing the video version
mircea_popescu: << not at all the case. it's just not implemented yet, but otherwise, add "permadeath" and "universal pvp" see what it comes to.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 19:10:23; ben_vulpes: i just recall faint intimations that it wasn't quite the focus as it is in eve or wow
mircea_popescu: for that matter, eulora is not pve, it's evp. in point of fact player activity will attract environment challenges. you build a house, ogres come to it sort of thing.
mircea_popescu: so it's not that it's not "pvp based" it's more that even its pve is really pvp by another name.
mircea_popescu: < < yeah fact is the players are yet very poor - plenty of items haven't even been crafted yet, most types of claims haven't been found etc. it's cooperative necessarily, like stranded people on an island/plane crash site don't exactly start bvuilding forts and playing war.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 19:12:10; danielpbarron: there are like.. 12 players right now. wouldn't make much sense for us to start killing each other (not that death has been implemented yet)
mircea_popescu: so not yet really implemented. but... the shadows await, all around, every night. and in the shadows, the grues...
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 19:22:41; danielpbarron: hahha yeah right i'm gonna play some game that isn't eulora
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33500 @ 0.00057639 = 19.3091 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: if he iomagines that screeching pile of a failure mode is "lessons learned" and whatnot...
mircea_popescu: "we make doing nothing on vc money less painful emotionally and so cvould you!"
mircea_popescu: i'd rather read about flies fuck
mircea_popescu: (in a jar, in a lab, in which someone put glucose. of course.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66750 @ 0.00057639 = 38.474 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51247 @ 0.00059956 = 30.7257 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71137 @ 0.00059959 = 42.653 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97200 @ 0.00058846 = 57.1983 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: trinque ubuntu folks had the process down pat for their thing, which is how i even ended up recommending it, briefly.
mircea_popescu: sadly, it did it for ubuntu.
trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm close; show ya something tomorrow
trinque: and if there are suggestions on different libc, etc., should be very easy to change
mircea_popescu: doing what, glibc gentoo ?
trinque: yep, but could just as well be musl
mircea_popescu: and cli only ?
trinque: I am open to offering options like the openbsd installer for say X, other things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97400 @ 0.00059967 = 58.4079 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: should probably include an x and a sound, at least eventually.
trinque: for sure
mircea_popescu: i mean, where you headed with this maybe im confused. is this noob system ?
trinque: yep, noob system
trinque: response to my interaction with n6
mircea_popescu: yeah. someone who deeply understands emacs could write a 100 page READABLE! INTERESTING! EMPOWERING! guide to emacs for it.
trinque: and that's been the rub I think; what's the answer for a developer that shows up, and what's the answer for someone that wants to turn his life around
mircea_popescu: but i fucking mean poetry, do not drone on like tech people do.
mircea_popescu: all sorts of fun, useful & profitable derivations can be hooked on. good idea.
mircea_popescu: was there a "lisp for 12 yos" anywhere ?
trinque: I once read The Little Schemer, wasn't bad
mircea_popescu: i don't recall if we like or loathe scheme
mircea_popescu: !s scheme
assbot: 506 results for 'scheme' :
trinque: whereas CL appears to value completeness, scheme heads for the minimal set of primitives from which higher functionality can be derived
mircea_popescu: i guess we like it.
trinque: latter seems appropriate for a student
trinque departs for a bit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58017 @ 0.00060262 = 34.9622 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: << if meant 'perly', i welcome suggestions of how it could be made less so. but - the incantation works. i encourage folks to try it. presently investigating how to re-sign things while preserving all timestamps.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:40:14; mircea_popescu: << it's pearly :D
mircea_popescu: i am ALSO just ribbing you.
asciilifeform: << i've been making something quite like this. (see last bullet in aug.'15 s.nsa broadcast for summary)
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:44:28; trinque: mircea_popescu: thought here is to image a USB drive, and have that thing be able to push-button image a computer it has booted
mircea_popescu: so work together eh ?
mircea_popescu: help the guy draw the spec document and then let him do it, free a hand
asciilifeform: << laugh, but this is happening. esp. concerning gpu: several whole generations of nvidia products suffer from the dreaded bga ball defect, and have strictly limited lifespan.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:51:01; trinque: problem to worry about when the metric shitloads of old hardware available everywhere vanish
asciilifeform: the vendors are insistent that this is no longer happening, but there is strong reason to not believe this any more than anything else that ever came out of their mouths
asciilifeform: possibly 'rohs'/leadfree solder are at fault
asciilifeform: and nobody cancelled them or is about to
asciilifeform: (even cn is mostly unleaded now, in response to eu pressure)
mircea_popescu: if it takes crushing the eu, the eu will be crushed.
mircea_popescu: anything it takes.
mircea_popescu: the "new" bullshit is going away.
shinohai: dat ass mp
asciilifeform: << i own the whole series (all but the idiot java volume.) some of'em coloured by old gf, even. just last week got the latest 'little prover' in the post!
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 23:29:18; trinque: I once read The Little Schemer, wasn't bad
mircea_popescu: fortunately this is a point that won't take a second pass to explain to the chinese. or, for the most part, to the russians.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 23:32:25; mircea_popescu: and in other news,
asciilifeform: acoustic lining, even
mircea_popescu: i thought this is how ranges are ?!
mircea_popescu: how the fuck else ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ahahahahahaha not here.
asciilifeform: bare cement.
asciilifeform: *blam* *ears pop*
mircea_popescu: is that even legal ?
mircea_popescu: afaik it's "wood or lining, no third option"
asciilifeform: ubiquitous, sop
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85735 @ 0.00058843 = 50.449 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: the fucktards in north america build out of wood what they should make out of cement
asciilifeform: (in the locales in usa where shooting galleries are even a thing)
mircea_popescu: AND THEN make out of cement the one thing you must make out of wood ?
asciilifeform: also it is not uncommon for visitors to stand so close, they elbow one another
mircea_popescu: by now you're really better off with some cans out in the field.
asciilifeform: those who have a field nearby - do only this!
asciilifeform: indoor galleries are for city folk
mircea_popescu: well, it's hard to improve your aim with the cans. proper ranges have electronic measures
asciilifeform: cans have analogue 'measure' (falls down or not)
mircea_popescu: ya but...
mircea_popescu: how do you go from 99 to 99.9
asciilifeform: there are also 'fancy' targets that jump up and down when hit
asciilifeform: folks with outdoor space often use those.
mircea_popescu: but not really arbitrarily small ? also not convenient to keep moving sizes of items
mircea_popescu: check out the shooting caltrop
asciilifeform: aha, bestseller
mircea_popescu: i suppose another way would be to cut holes in cardboard and shoot through the hole.
asciilifeform: << complicated. scheme is an example of a 'suckless movement' that didn't catch on. that is, 'throw out all the legacy crud', but after that the thing has to be inhabited. if not inhabited, then dies young, while leaving, yes, beautiful corpse
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 23:30:34; trinque: whereas CL appears to value completeness, scheme heads for the minimal set of primitives from which higher functionality can be derived
asciilifeform: this was mostly understood by the enthusiasts around a decade ago, but some of the response was also pathological: 'let's bolt on a huge turd of a standard library'
asciilifeform: which the 'official committee' did
asciilifeform: landing in a kind of 'worst of both worlds' valley
asciilifeform: scheme remains 1) a very clean scripting language to embed in another proggy 2) a very spiffy starting point for a future lisp (including hardware)
asciilifeform: and 3) great student exercise, where the kids won't demand to hear why both 'elt' and 'nth' exist (perennial retardation example from cl, which was born in a 'no vendor left behind' multi-turdculturist compromise)
asciilifeform: the original scheme ~standard~ is <50 pages.
asciilifeform: of reasonably large text.
asciilifeform: a ~reasonable~ scheme is about 1000 lines of c.
asciilifeform: (half of this if you're willing to forgo informative error handling, and some of the more difficult features like 'call/cc')
assbot: catseye/minischeme · GitHub ... ( )
asciilifeform: scheme 'fits in head.'
assbot: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs ... ( )
asciilifeform: ... of computer programz.
asciilifeform: ^ mega-b00k
asciilifeform: phun phakt: when it appeared, american schools began to use it as a mandatory undergrad textbook. and you can measure precisely when each school turned full-bore retard by ~when they stopped~
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 23:07:45; mircea_popescu: At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: re: the mit thing:
asciilifeform: mit (the home of sussman and the original arena for this) officially became irredeemably doomed in my eyes when they stopped.
asciilifeform: the book (lovingly referred to as sicp, 'sick pee') is a textbook illustration of precisely what i mean when i say 'fits in head'.
asciilifeform: (describes not scheme per se, but walks the student through implementing scheme in scheme, and then implementing a detailed simulator for a machine which is the intrinsic minimum for executing scheme.)
asciilifeform: the subject swallows own arse, and either disappears in a flash of gamma rays, or becomes an adult computerist
asciilifeform: hi nubbins`
nubbins`: what's new?
asciilifeform: not much
asciilifeform: but it's all in the logz.
nubbins`: no kidding, hey.
nubbins`: i designed some posters this week:
assbot: Shed Island 2015 Posters - Album on Imgur ... ( )
asciilifeform: << at -ev? thing is, nobody ever invented 'reasonably priced electronics sold to sane people.' that is, no one has ever demonstrated the economic feasibility of this. the only kinds of computer sold in perhaps 25 years were: a) sold to chumps buying forced 'pr0gr3ssss' and b) so expensive everyone shits his pants
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:54:22; mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.
asciilifeform: see also the old thread re: how no one ever, to date, non-fraudulently financed the production of a bitcoin miner.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu suddenly feels like commissioning the production of an ic from own personal lunch money, who am i to discourage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4721 @ 0.00058309 = 2.7528 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: but this is very different from how the computer on everyone's desk was built
asciilifeform: and if attempted with any kind of scale, will make plutonium look cheap and plentiful in comparison.
asciilifeform: summary: nobody knows how to make selling computers +ev without the millions-of-planktonous-idiots market being involved somehow
nubbins`: hm, asicminer fraudulently produced ASIC production?
nubbins` wanders off in search of thread
asciilifeform: nubbins`: by fronting
asciilifeform: and front-mining.
nubbins`: o, right
asciilifeform: afaik all without exception miner vendors did this.
asciilifeform: heavily.
nubbins`: recall Avalons showing up w/ mining pool info left in config files etc
asciilifeform: no one even tried to hide.
nubbins`: why would you? everyone who bothered to think knew
nubbins`: everyone who just saw $$$ stopped thinking
asciilifeform: the perpetrators were convinced that the chumps were convinced that there is simply no other way.
asciilifeform: (and who am i to contend that they were wrong?)
nubbins`: ^ you buy a butchered pig, the farmer's keeping your tenderloin tips.
asciilifeform: production of ic is an ~intensely, ruinously~ expensive affair, quite on par with space flight
asciilifeform: very few folks seem to understand the full depth of this
nubbins`: am i incorrect in that AM etc early models essentially just baked an FPGA design?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: afaik they STILL do
asciilifeform: !s hardcopy fpga
assbot: 4 results for 'hardcopy fpga' :
nubbins`: ah, heh.
nubbins`: yeah, sure
asciilifeform: just to add to the already forming lsd trip in this thread: i'm not personally convinced that ic production HAS EVER BEEN +EV
asciilifeform: it is conceivable the the entire ic age has been fueled by a continuously-rolling 'jam tomorrow' bezzle
nubbins`: you gotta qualify that w/ scale or smth
asciilifeform: ussr, for instance, just about broke its back producing ic (and cloned computers of various descriptions.) it is not clear that these paid for themselves, regardless of how you measure economic
asciilifeform: in fact, they... well.
nubbins`: TBH i think stuff like VLSI is only kept going because everyone involved is afraid the machines won't start up again if they stop
asciilifeform: something can well be ubiquitous, fun to have around, considered a basic element of civilization - and ultimately be -EV.
asciilifeform: sitting on the 'expense' side of the ledger for running civilization.
nubbins`: like parties, for example.
asciilifeform: all good and well, we all want toilets, condoms, cpus.
asciilifeform: but too much of this and - broke.
asciilifeform: and 'why did we collapse'
nubbins`: ooh, is it because we drowned in plastic and trademarked seeds?
assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 04:05:11; asciilifeform: 'the gods of the copybook headings' (tm) (r) (kipling!)
nubbins`: and then i found myself in a spiral of photolitho articles.
nubbins` drools, imagines machinery
funkenstein_: I just bought: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - 2nd Edition (MIT Electrical Engineering and Computer Science)
funkenstein_: Gresham's law of computing: bad codez drives out good, when both accepted by noobz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81300 @ 0.00058716 = 47.7361 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: was gonna argue but realized i misread
trinque: asciilifeform: how bout I show you what I've produced tomorrow re: self-replicating gentoo and get your feedback?
trinque: idea is the same thing on the stick ends up on the computer, then the computer's equipped to repeat
trinque: I am to the point where a bootable root.img is repeatably produced
nubbins`: lel.
assbot: Call off the bee-pocalypse: U.S. honeybee colonies hit a 20-year high - The Washington Post ... ( )
nubbins`: from log
nubbins`: "call off the police: law-abiding citizen count higher than ever"
nubbins`: o hey, friend of mine designed an album cover for an astronaut.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99860 @ 0.00058083 = 58.0017 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57450 @ 0.00057882 = 33.2532 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60650 @ 0.00057808 = 35.0606 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: trinque: aha
asciilifeform: re: ic thread: whole thing is kinda coming together in my skull. quite likely ~^^this^^~ is why it is impossible to borrow money to fund a computer-related anything, without a convincing plan to somehow pass the bezzle to a greater chump
asciilifeform: ~this~ is why just about every large ic maker in history has either gone broke or become a quasi-governmental entity
asciilifeform: note that 'people want computerz' is not enough for the industry to be +ev
asciilifeform: i.e., people want dildoes. yes.
asciilifeform: but what if a dildo intrinsically cost more to make, energy/resource-wise, than the user could ever hope to repay ?
asciilifeform: it'd be rather like spacewalks
asciilifeform: so it is not enough for there to be a market of want-ers. they also gotta be pay-ers
asciilifeform: but if the treat is delicious enough, and bezzlatronics invented, the non-pay-er want-ers easily turn into borrowers.
nubbins`: When asked, hypothetically, how he would pay for complicated life-saving surgery for a loved one, Polk seemed uncertain. "That's a lot of vegetables, isn't it?" he said.
assbot: 404 - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( )
nubbins`: whoops, guess that broke assbot's url handler
assbot: U.S. Economy Grinds To Halt As Nation Realizes Money Just A Symbolic, Mutually Shared Illusion - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( )
asciilifeform: practical outgrowth of this hypothesis is that, if it is true, quite likely that most of the cpu that will EVER be produced, have been produced.
nubbins`: peak silicon!
asciilifeform: ditto anything else which requires vlsi
assbot: ClubOrlov: Industry's Parting Gifts ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'This, then, should be the new main thrust of industrial activity: to manufacture and distribute products with the understanding that this process will run out of resources and stop. These products must be designed to outlive the process by which they are made, by as long as possible.'
asciilifeform: orlov does conflate several unrelated phenomena (in particular, zooming into resource exhaustion to the exclusion of just about all other aspects of problem)
nubbins`: good enough to keep me going until it's time to head out
asciilifeform: the basic problem with -ev is not that eventually you run out of shitanium and unobtainium (though you will) but that you will be getting poorer, monotonically, and not realize precisely why
asciilifeform: and then run up other 'debts'
asciilifeform: in a vain attempt to avoid being ground into mud
asciilifeform: to bring back to concretes, ussr could have done something else with the manpower they sank into cloning pdp, z80
asciilifeform: and churning out those things
nubbins`: but what!
asciilifeform: not a question for me
asciilifeform: ask the folks in the alt-universe where vlsi didn't happen
asciilifeform: perhaps biological strange of some kind
asciilifeform: perhaps herbert's 'mentats', l0l
mod6: I'm gonna re-tackle the rotor build tomorrow btw.
asciilifeform: mod6: neato!
mod6: Been bogged down with fiat job manditory overtime bs.
asciilifeform: i am now looking for the mircea_popescu article where he hypothesized that 'bezzle' is, without exception, born out of people doing things that are -ev on the large scale - in just the same way as elements heavier than iron are born in supernova
nubbins`: dem mentats!
asciilifeform: if anyone has the link (or if i hallucinated this existing) please say.
nubbins` applauds softly
asciilifeform: just to work out example on a napkin. say you, a king, want a pyramid built. could a) conscript ten thousand folks to work to death building it b) debase the currency and hire builders
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 238450 @ 0.00056928 = 135.7448 BTC [-] {9}
asciilifeform: i contend that (b) necessarily involves the same amount of enslavement as (a)
asciilifeform: just distributed another way.
asciilifeform: the thing that makes the pyramid a pyramid, at least in a schoolbook example, is that it is not something anyone (but the king) actually ~wants~ that much
asciilifeform: while being costly
asciilifeform is roughly aware that the story of actual egyptian pyramids was rather more complicated
asciilifeform: anyway this thread really cannot go anywhere without a mircea_popescu, so i will leave it here.
nubbins`: the pyramid builders had one more thing going for them
nubbins`: and it's the same thing that the church builders had going for them
asciilifeform: could be done 'on installment plan', aha.
nubbins`: altho the church builders were generally more free to fuck off and do something else
asciilifeform: function of above.
asciilifeform: didn't really have a 'takeoff velocity'
nubbins`: nah, what i was going at is that people wanted to do it for free
nubbins`: but, this is now a relic of the past
nubbins`: no stonemasons work for the good of their community any longer
asciilifeform: find me a fella willing to wear a gas suit and wash si in HF all day, every day, 'for the good of' something-or-other.
nubbins`: not in 1st world anyway. when i was in the sacred valley of peru, right in the middle of a 7 hour hike i came across a bunch of guys building a church outta mud bricks
asciilifeform: mud bricks - can have.
asciilifeform: space launch, si fab - no.
nubbins`: asciilifeform the fact that the si and hf exists means the guy's probably not as much of a fuckin rube as the dude who built the church his grandfather was married in
nubbins`: there's tricks you can still pull and tricks you can't
nubbins`: salvation is on its way out as a motivator
asciilifeform: long ago.
nubbins`: science sort of drives it out
assbot: George Orwell: Notes on the Way ... ( )
nubbins`: this intro sold me on the rest of it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68212 @ 0.0006019 = 41.0568 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "not inhabited" part holds its own mystery. did it provide an edge to users ? then, how come not used - is it the current castration of "thinking" folk that prevented them from deplyoing it ? something else ?
mircea_popescu: if not advantage, why is it even here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 174188 @ 0.00061043 = 106.3296 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: not that the presence of "official committees" isn't a sign that the thing's dead/dying.
nubbins`: oh, city workers knocked on my door the other day requesting entry for "propertyassessment"
mircea_popescu: da fuck is that.
mircea_popescu: the soviet thing ?
nubbins`: it's where they count your bathrooms and look at your basement and make sure they're charging you enough property tax
nubbins`: and the homeowner tells you to fuck off
mircea_popescu: you should charge.
mircea_popescu: "guided tour, naked - $50. add $1000 per oz of clothes. shoes $500 flat fee."
mircea_popescu: "pictures - you take, $10 each ; of you - free"
nubbins`: actually it's the other way around
nubbins`: you don't let em in, they're forced to do their assessment from the street
nubbins`: and you waive the right to appeal o.O
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: << at -ev? << the concept of ev does not apply in that context.
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 22:54:22; mircea_popescu: i'll take over the us fed and run it from right here, and if there's nobody else i'll take over fucking china silicon and run it from right here too. what in the ever loving fuck.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no such thing. you can't waive by refusal.
mircea_popescu: "by sucking my cock you waive your right to complain about its girth" < formally valid law.
mircea_popescu: "by refusing to suck my cock you waive your right to fart" < formally invalid.
nubbins`: "by making us guess whether you have a basement apartment, you waive your right to claim that you don't"
mircea_popescu: you don't claim "that you don't".
nubbins`: "by refusing the breathalyzer, you waive the right to claim you're sober"
mircea_popescu: and this "you made me do" bs is for tired mothers.
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: listen, i don't disagree
mircea_popescu: except no, you don't.
nubbins`: but am i gonna spend a year in court arguing it?
mircea_popescu: if they lose they pay, right ?
nubbins`: meantime, i have paper to cut, feet to rest on coffee tables...
nubbins`: the process of making them lose is itself an unreasonable burden
mircea_popescu: which means, i'll spend fifty, because hey, it keeps one or more lawyers owing me for the bread i provided them
mircea_popescu: depends. if it is the place sucks.
mircea_popescu: generally it's quite lucrative.
nubbins`: i have neither the means nor the will
mircea_popescu: you need like a patron over there.
nubbins`: and not just of the arts, either
mircea_popescu: incidentally, one could prolly make a killing in the north america this way. just - offer patronage to the various people who got paper to cut.
nubbins`: too many electric cutters
nubbins`: we're more of a quality over quantity sort of shop
nubbins`: i do have a lovely plough, cca 14th century tech, that can trim a phone book cleaner than the phone book factory does
nubbins`: cuts so clean you could shave in 'em.
mircea_popescu: but not cheaper.
nubbins`: goodness no.
nubbins`: this isn't always the metric tho
mircea_popescu: i have a dog that can slobber better than any race horse :D
nubbins` points to client who paid $1ea for business cards, printed and trimmed by hand, because digital offset shop w/ electronic die cutter did such a shitty job o.O
mircea_popescu: aaanyway, im done ruining your fun, bbl.
nubbins`: wait, i was having fun? :D
assbot: Louët :: Vertical Plough ... ( )
nubbins`: ^ my beast
nubbins`: ~$700usd plus s&h
nubbins`: add a spare blade, i think i dropped close to a thou on that fucking thing
nubbins`: anyway i should go listen to music and inhale drug smoke
nubbins`: peace
asciilifeform: << a unified standard library never formed. a few implementation-specific fairly complete libraries - did, but the kind of folks attracted to scheme all turned nose at them (incl. me) - 'ewww, not orthogonal, not beautiful, not scheme at all' -- them (and me)
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:47:47; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "not inhabited" part holds its own mystery. did it provide an edge to users ? then, how come not used - is it the current castration of "thinking" folk that prevented them from deplyoing it ? something else ?
asciilifeform: hence naggum pissing on scheme as a 'pedo' language that is only loved by folks who like the embryonic stage of things when they have no wrinkles (by his lights)
asciilifeform: << speaking of naggum, recall that this is how he was taxed to death
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:54:53; nubbins`: "by making us guess whether you have a basement apartment, you waive your right to claim that you don't"
asciilifeform: (literally)
asciilifeform: << orlov's mafia development stage. this is available ~right now~ just as in 1880 cosa nostra. BUT they use an ethnic filter to keep out usg. (the only filter known to work semi-reliably, sadly)
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:57:42; mircea_popescu: incidentally, one could prolly make a killing in the north america this way. just - offer patronage to the various people who got paper to cut.
asciilifeform: so nubbins` or asciilifeform cannot play
asciilifeform: << nobody cancelled thermodynamics. the concept ultimately applies - to various degrees - to anything one might do.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:53:19; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: << at -ev? << the concept of ev does not apply in that context.
asciilifeform: meaning, roughly, whether one can carry on doing it without borrowing/stealing something from somewhere outside the system under consideration
ben_vulpes: << in the movie 'Interstellar', the 'space race' is taught to children as a thing the us used to bankrupt the ussr, and rocket jockeys are villified
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 00:33:42; asciilifeform: ussr, for instance, just about broke its back producing ic (and cloned computers of various descriptions.) it is not clear that these paid for themselves, regardless of how you measure economic
asciilifeform: ^ not far from fact
asciilifeform: << similar system in usa. if you don't 'file tax', not only is there a fine levied, but the tax charged will be based on what usg 'thinks' you could have earned that year.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:55:11; mircea_popescu: you don't claim "that you don't".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ought to look up precisely what it is that folks are trying to get out of when they sue to be formally expelled from usa citizenship
asciilifeform: it is, largely, this.
mircea_popescu: i don't get the usl part.
mircea_popescu: why would it not form, if useful ? why would it be sought, if not useful ?
mircea_popescu: universal standard library
asciilifeform: because required 1) someone to write it 2) who could 'win' on one of the roughly 5 'standard wins' that i outline in
assbot: Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard ... ( )
mircea_popescu: so it never attracted thinking people ?
asciilifeform: (i.e. by force of army, by 'everyone else sucks so profoundly in comparison that there can be no debate', ...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it also did not help that scheme was used as a torture ritual in schools
mircea_popescu: on the ethnic filter point, a) it was not actulaly the case historically (new york by ww1 was just about getting to the point of advancement) ; b) it'sjust the lazy man's approach to things. doesn't work, either.
asciilifeform: what work went on, was geared towards pedagogics
mircea_popescu: so it never actually provided an ysort of advantage, but merely the promise of perhaps one day.
asciilifeform: it solved approximately half the problem: 'kill the cruft'
asciilifeform: but only showed a vague sketch of how to solve the remaining half
asciilifeform: 'construct a habitable planet'
mircea_popescu: re the thermodynamics : people live and then die. their time is fundamentally free. no thermodynamics applies here.
asciilifeform: sorta like an old cement warehouse, somehow infested with vermin. yes, must exterminate the vermin. but then what.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even when free, there are finite things they can do
asciilifeform: when building pyramid, you aren't harvesting fields, and somehow somebody will have to eat a bit less.
mircea_popescu: this was true then.
mircea_popescu: today, if you're not doing that you're doing what, twitter ?
asciilifeform: the age of petrol-to-food (however long that lasts) cancelled only that particular aspect of the conservation law
asciilifeform: but not others.
mircea_popescu: lasts forever. the way they grow pot is the way we'llgrow food in short order.
asciilifeform: only if fix RuBisCo
mircea_popescu: no petrol involved at any point. straight uranium.
asciilifeform: sadly, more complicated. just the turbine lives and dies by plenty of petrol-based lube
mircea_popescu: used to be petrol -> corned beef.
mircea_popescu: moving on to uranium -> hfcs.
mircea_popescu: synthetic means, synthetic.
mircea_popescu: can start with dead babies, enough c in there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu like just about everybody else at this point is muttering 'fischer-tropsch'
asciilifeform: but this is one of those 'yes, possible' but 'no, no one is inventing this parachute and we're already thrown from window' affairs.
mircea_popescu: this aside, if you will.
asciilifeform: notice that it did not save germany, though it had every desire to live.
mircea_popescu: well sure, it didn't save franz josef either. wtf.
asciilifeform: but sure, aside. there is still such a thing as -ev on civilization scale
mircea_popescu: on civilisation scale, yes.
mircea_popescu: on "who is going to do X thing - nobody", no.
asciilifeform: when some resource that is ultimately finite (petro, selenium, shitanium whatever) is squandered faster than it can be recovered and various things 'have come to expect' and begin to tear apart.
mircea_popescu: that was broadly my point, that the infantile "usg closes down so we're closing this park, and you'll be sorry!11" dies right here.
mircea_popescu: there WILL be alternative.
asciilifeform: and folks usually begin and end the discussion with minerals
asciilifeform: whereas i suspect that it is only a small part of the great shortages
mircea_popescu: the state, bulbously putrescent as it is, does not get to propose the false dichotomy - "us or nothing"
asciilifeform: notice i mentioned su likewise
mircea_popescu: whosoever.
mircea_popescu: the soviets need stalin like i need my nail clippings.
asciilifeform: hypothesis, roughly, that vlsi might turn out to be yet another very expensive religious ritual
asciilifeform: like the easter island statues.
mircea_popescu: fortunately there's very little actual matter consumed in vlsi.
asciilifeform: well, and that minerals are not even half of the problem.
mircea_popescu: i am somehow unconcerned.
asciilifeform: oh hey.
mircea_popescu: maybe my clueless side.
asciilifeform: said the fella who sweats blood on account of misbehaving computers.
asciilifeform: with the lot of us.
mircea_popescu: heh i guess huh
mircea_popescu: i mostly sweat elaborate curse words.
decimation: I enjoyed my time here, learned much, had many lolz. I do not wish to cause drama or be an impediment to improving bitcoin. Even though I presently have L2 rating from a few people, I am not going impose on their good grace by remaining. God bless all of you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78550 @ 0.00058464 = 45.9235 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customers got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're re
mircea_popescu: sponsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. "
cazalla: <<< mod6's guide was pretty straight forward when i used it to install gentoo, fell short on foundation's bitcoin though :\
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:40:09; n6: How would someone get gentoo installed without this level of support?
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 06:40:37; trinque: I think the lesson here is that at least with current materials, they can't
trinque: was by no means a slight against mod6
trinque: but an observation that one has to really reach back to remember what it's like to not even know how to describe what you're not understanding
cazalla: trinque, wasn't implying that, more that if i could do it then probably anyone else here can do the same
trinque: maybe so; the guy kinda diverged from the guide, but then that was because he didn't know what EFI vs BIOS was
cazalla: ah fair enough, no EFI trip wire here
mircea_popescu: << this is only a problem of resource distribution. yes, in a world where for incomprehensible reasons every unit of plancton gets disposable money, you get britney spears and reddit.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 00:28:04; asciilifeform: summary: nobody knows how to make selling computers +ev without the millions-of-planktonous-idiots market being involved somehow
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it seems very improbable that arrangement will survive bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: chiefly for the reason discussed earlier. there is literally nothing most people can do that's worth paying btc for.
mircea_popescu: ie, "$lice of all value that will ever exist"
mircea_popescu: << you'll have to explain how you measure the V.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 00:32:20; asciilifeform: just to add to the already forming lsd trip in this thread: i'm not personally convinced that ic production HAS EVER BEEN +EV
mircea_popescu: there is a directly obvious place where this is true. the way i approach a problem ? i have someone do it by hand. after enough of this, i have someone else automatize the easy to automatize parts. it grows from there.
mircea_popescu: the way "computer expert" approaches a problem ? first, he sits around imagining a problem that might be. then he comes up with the most theoretically-lovable way to solve a general problem three steps removed from what he imagined. then he proceeds to fail to implement a solution that mostly works.
mircea_popescu: time he spent = 10 to 100x time he saved, not to mention he saves time that's not worth saving in the first place.
mircea_popescu: this, yes, patently -EV.
mircea_popescu: but this does not speak about the activity of computing, or automating, or process design. it merely speaks of the idiot in question, and his tribe.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.0005912 = 13.6567 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "all i did all week was write a program to save me one keystroke per month - INCREASE WORKEFICIENCY!1"
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 01:30:40; asciilifeform: perhaps herbert's 'mentats', l0l
mircea_popescu: dude he went away just as it was getting interesting.
asciilifeform: back, had to put some food in
mircea_popescu: so set out this thing again ?
asciilifeform: vlsi as man-in-space
asciilifeform: was the rough of it
mircea_popescu: but looky : man in space is -ev in the sense that if you make a bill of the required materials, and then divide the stores by that, you come to a number that's < world pop.
mircea_popescu: this is all. it just says "you can't send everyone"
mircea_popescu: it does not say "sending 5, or 50 or 500 is "-ev""
mircea_popescu: because ev is not defined.
asciilifeform: the notion i was trying to get at is that presently existing units were financed on 100% 'jam tomorrow'
asciilifeform: like bitcoin asics.
mircea_popescu: you were financed the same way
asciilifeform: i.e. that ~all~ asics are quite like bitcoin asics in that respect
mircea_popescu: your parents decided to have a baby.
mircea_popescu: what was that ?
asciilifeform: aha but i'm cheaper.
mircea_popescu: in what numbers ?
asciilifeform: in just about any numbers one cares to pick. whether in minerals, or in joules, or in time of scarce experts tied up
mircea_popescu: not so. average cost per kid over 1-18 is about 500k atm. that makes the stable cost quadrillions. computers don't cost that much.
asciilifeform: 500k in what, usg uni tuition ? l0l
mircea_popescu: everything. starting with hiring the mother.
asciilifeform: i had this whole 'trip' while holding a ru z80 in my hands and wondering why there is no more where it came from
asciilifeform: if making such things is 'good business'
mircea_popescu: 2.5k calories a day * 365 * 20 is a decent chunk oif change even in hfcs terms
asciilifeform: and then realized that virtually every tech entity of that period, is either dead or usgized
asciilifeform: and came into existence via very questionable finance
asciilifeform: so perhaps computer can exist in the future of -- but only like an 18th c. church organ
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 03:27:10; mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it seems very improbable that arrangement will survive bitcoin.
asciilifeform: something which is a ~place~
asciilifeform: near a locus of earthly power
asciilifeform: because all of our machinery ~today~ was financed via 'britney'
asciilifeform: no britney? welcome to 'univac', $1m half-z80.
asciilifeform: (or, for completeness, some yet-entirely-undiscovered 'third road' where we make'em out of belly button lint)
mircea_popescu: ftr, hfcs is 1-200 per 640 lb barrel. it's like sugar, about 4k calories per kg. so your kid costs
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2500 * 365 * 20 / 4000 * .5
gribble: 2281.25
mircea_popescu: about 2.5k if it were a pig.
asciilifeform: there we go.
mircea_popescu: still think 500k is an exaggeration ?
asciilifeform: about same as small computer.
mircea_popescu: the point of comparison weould be "pile of scrap metal in the approximate shape of a desktop"
asciilifeform: at any rate, this edges into the territory of converting meters to litres and 'comparing the soft to the warm'
mircea_popescu: let's get back to your original idea. can you state it ?
asciilifeform: my real question was 'is it possible to finance a computer without duping millions that they Must Upgrade Because (tm) ' ?
mircea_popescu: (the only solution to the soft-warm comparison is a decent pair of tits)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends. do you live in a world where most capital is uselessly distributed to idiots ?
asciilifeform: hence my mental excursion in this gedankenexperiment to the world of j.s. bach and his organs
asciilifeform: no britney there, no. but was it 'in the hands of idiots' still ?
mircea_popescu: if people get "salaries" for doing "work" which have to then be collected back from them - the mcdonald, walmart, windows and britney spears are unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, none of these exist.
mircea_popescu: so your choice of whether you want a good computer or not reduces to whether you're willing to live without the mass delusion of you know, "democracy" or w/e it's called.
asciilifeform: and here is where we meet up with vlsi boojum: you can't do vlsi economically if there is room for six computers total.
asciilifeform: it ends up making space tourism look cheap.
mircea_popescu: don't confuse things.
mircea_popescu: the fact that there's room for six CAPITAL ALLOCATORS total
mircea_popescu: does not mean there's room for any specified number of computers.
asciilifeform: who then issue, like cannon?
mircea_popescu: a million, zero, undefined.
asciilifeform: i can see it.
mircea_popescu: "this is the sword we use"
mircea_popescu: "shoot him."
← 2015-08-06 | 2015-08-08 →