Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-03-20 | 2022-03-22 → ↓
vex: signpost. if you want cool pirate hat, buy a new stetson and come to oz for a couple of weeks.
vex: it'll get fucked up
vex: funny thing is, if you fly in to melbourne with a fresh one; they'll look at you funny. if it's got bullet holes and associated naughty, cool as bro
vex: we generally get akubras, so a stetson would be a nice gif
vex: crtdaydreams, your xyz is 403
vex: i'm not html expert. i spent days writing expert gotos in c64 basic, write to tape and expand tommorrow
verisimilitude: Hello again, vex.
verisimilitude: How vexing thy words can be.
vex: ah, the etho doeth flow in thine hema
vex: it's a curse
vex: *mine?
vex: *etoh
vex: it's not new information
verisimilitude: I agree.
vex: your output is also a little bit unruly changeable
vex: whats the mp joke?
verisimilitude: He finally learned how to exit vi.
vex: idgi
verisimilitude: He died.
verisimilitude: He's a former vi user.
vex: what's it like ctrl/rum
verisimilitude: It was funnier when I first thought of it, but this context isn't too kind towards it.
verisimilitude: No, I believe it's :q.
vex: hanbot's looking trim and terrific
vex: no more leftovers
verisimilitude: Care for a better joke?
vex: of course
verisimilitude: I've not put this one on my jokes page yet.
verisimilitude: What should one call a group of homosexuals, all of whom agree with one another?
verisimilitude: An HIVmind.
vex: I chortled
verisimilitude: I'm glad.
verisimilitude: I thought of this joke after being kicked from an IRC channel I'd joined, after they went through my work and called me a bigot; I was acting unawares it was a den of faggotry until that point.
verisimilitude: Care to see the logs of that, I suppose?
vex: just tell me the joke bitch
verisimilitude: There's no joke this time.
verisimilitude: No, I thought of the joke I'd already told, vex.
vex: nevermind. i get it
vex: just like pest, whats already been said
vex: doesn't bear repeating
verisimilitude: It's a shame, really; I try to branch out of my usual venues, and walk into a den of homosexuals.
verisimilitude: So much of the Internet is a cess pit.
vex: hey. oyu haven't been to siam yet
vex: relax
verisimilitude: I hate the idea that I already be everywhere worth being.
verisimilitude: Explain ``siam''.
vex: now known as thailand
verisimilitude: I'd a relative who lived there, I believe.
verisimilitude: He didn't discuss it much.
vex: log deltetes
vex: nothing.
verisimilitude: How vexing.
crtdaydreams: vex: brain fog. productivity f-- the whole existence of re: CollapseOS is really fucking depressing ngl
crtdaydreams: Read that in the morning and over the day I had a few hours to myself and time to think. Honestly CollapseOS is best-case scenario.
crtdaydreams: Kinda hit home how fucked the economy is, and what times ahead are going to really be like.
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086523 << if the internet splinters, it'll be even harder than now to find information, and esoteric info hardest of all
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 04:26:17 crtdaydreams: Kinda hit home how fucked the economy is, and what times ahead are going to really be like.
mangol: that makes it even more pressing to curate information into archives now that it's still doable
mangol: we should make a big archive of all the "Right Thing" computer literature we can find
mangol: even if the internet stays in ~one piece, that kind of info is in danger of being lost to time anyway, so the work isn't lost
mangol: work isn't lost = work isn't wasted
PeterL: hey mangol, I have been wondering how to interpret your handle, is it like first initial last name (M. Angol), name and last initial (Mango L.), or a mangled form of the English word "magle"?
mangol: lol. Mango L. is the intent. a friend gave it to me
mangol: my first name is lassi which is vexing (sorry, couldn't resist to continue the pun) to pronounce. the right pronounciation is as in "mango lassi". that's where the nick came from
mangol: lassi is the finnish equivalent of larry
PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-19#1085827 << Mormons tentacles reach everywhere, even penetrated here >:)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-19 00:50:27 signpost: mats: those entertaining logs failed at what mormons could pull off, consider.
PeterL: but it might be useful to consider why we are successful - I can't be sure exactly, but I have been trying to think of it the past few days
PeterL: we do have some aspects that have been at least somewhat praised here from time to time - hierachial organization, division into groups of roughly dunbar number, the girls learn to bake a pie
asciilifeform: PeterL: iirc mormon 'vatican' also plays role of a hedge fund. prolly helps
PeterL: and there is an expectation of personal investment that ties one into the group moreso than other groups manage
asciilifeform: they're extremely well organized, and stealthily. asciilifeform once ended up in a salt mine where took almost a whole yr to find out that ~only mormons promoted (or treated w/ any respect whatsoever)
PeterL: heh, seems unusual being where you are as opposed to UT or surrounding
asciilifeform: right, was surprising
asciilifeform: but not utterly surprising, they have a mega-cathedral here and evidently the numbers
PeterL: Actually, town where I live has a higher-than-average mormon population because one got into the Dow Chemical management and then spent a couple decades recruting from the BYU business school
signpost has a utilitarian view of organizing principles of an effective cult. didn't much "believe" in bsdm either.
signpost: proof is in the girls baking pie
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 09:51:59 mangol: that makes it even more pressing to curate information into archives now that it's still doable
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-20 21:10:39 signpost: upstack, should just do a DHT on it, ask peers for $hash
mangol: signpost: hash-addressed archive is exactly what i've been thinking about
whaack: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: 94.176.238.102:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.111s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.090s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728375
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728375
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.157s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.288s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
watchglass: 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.331s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.281s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=728375 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.588s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=728375
watchglass: 103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.491s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=350670 (Operator: whaack)
whaack: !e height
trbexplorer: whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
whaack: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 728375
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 7
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
mangol: signpost: we should cook something up
mangol: is gopher usable for fetching content by hash? the protocol is not optimal, but it's simple, and it's there
signpost oughta write up what's in his head, but would probably be inappropriate to graft a connection-based request/response protocol to Pest.
signpost: mangol: http://trinque.org/2022/02/19/online-codes-in-python-wip/ << I wrote this (yet incomplete) implementation of a fountain code that's probably useful here.
signpost: quick sketch would be something like the following. my node sends (request hash) over pest as a new message type. this flood-fills over the network, and nodes that have the hash locally reply with (offer hash) if they feel like it.
signpost: (perhaps this involves whether they're currently servicing someone else's request, whatever it may be.
PeterL: signpost: would you set up a separate pest network for the DHT-requests, or would it somehow ride on top of the network people are using to chat?
signpost: new message type
signpost left off that the offer oughta come with an OTP.
mangol: oh yeah, flood routing is an interesting feature re: putting something DHT-like on top of pest
PeterL: would there be a second message from the requestor to say it is complete? (and would time out eventually if no completed-message arrives?)
mangol plans to invest heavily in content-addressable everything during the next few years
signpost: my node then sends (retrieve hash otp port) to as many nodes as it wants, and those nodes may then respond with a fountain-code stream of udp packets to that port.
signpost: nice thing about the fountain code is that the sending nodes don't have to coordinate with where they start generating blocks as long as they use the same params for the encoder
signpost: they just pick a random offset each.
signpost: probably agreeing on encoder params requires additional steps. one could hardcode them to start, and assume that the channel between is not very lossy. usually true. later one could try to discover lossiness with test transfers, see how many packets are dropped of a given sequence.
signpost: were we on radio, that'd probably be desirable
signpost: mangol: yep, good wartime practice.
PeterL: so the actual file transfer is not done over pest, just the request?
signpost: PeterL: perhaps entirely within pest, and sent as DM rather than rebroadcast to everyone
PeterL: maybe have another message type that is the file transfer (like a DM, it is not rebraodcast)?
mangol: IRC has CTCP and DCC which were bolted on as afterthoughts. why not do similar things from the start in pest
mangol: could even implement /me messages lol
mangol: most critical wartime feature
mangol: exactly :D :D
mangol: ded man's switch to auto-broadcast that
signpost: idea above is by no means complete, but wanted to prompt others to think about p2p filesharing pest-tronically.
signpost: one will want to think about how search works atop this also.
PeterL: mangol, could you expand how CTCP is different from normal pest operation, or how signpost's thing is differnt from DCC?
mangol: signpost: oh yeah. you have good ideas
signpost: just thinking from first principles outward from asciilifeform's pest
mangol: PeterL: in IRC, CTCP is a PRIVMSG/NOTICE where the first and last bytes are 0x01 (IIRC). that's a hack because IRC doesn't have native CTCP and CTCPREPLY messages
mangol: pest is new, so ideally could avoid using such a hack
PeterL: so a sort of hack to implement the message types that pest has?
mangol would like to have a "drip" protocol where you subscribe to peers in your WoT, and they propagate interesting content to you
mangol: content would drip through the network, so nobody knows who originated the content
mangol: drip as in coffee or something. need the feed, etc.
signpost: possibly can implement that without a new message type, just designate a particular netchain the juicy gossip thread
mangol: basically you'd think "this guy always comes across interesting stuff" and add his key to your drip wot. then all his stuff, and his friends' stuff, would come to you
signpost imagines he will have a netchain which broadcasts his new blog posts to those that care, etc
signpost: yeah, definitely implementable with existing concepts
mangol: yeah, could be doable as a simple extension of pest
signpost: not even, netchain's there as 3.2.3.1 in the spek
mangol: if you wanna hear someone's pest messages, you probably wanna hear about their links too
PeterL: or have a pest network where anybody posts the hash of interesting stuff, then people can grab it using signpost's thing? (does it need a name yet?)
mangol: seems like pestnet.io's TLS cert needs tweaking btw
mangol: the web server's, that is
mangol: oh, it has a localhost cert, heh
signpost: this'd be mega-handy for retrieving someone's new vpatches.
signpost: pentacle might like those put in an inbox for review and inclusion in your local patches/seals dirs
signpost: mangol: your browser probably insisted on hitting that port, rather than the server redirecting
PeterL: mangol: have you gotten v running yet?
mangol: signpost: entirely possible
mangol: PeterL: nope, i have yet to read the V tutorial and study the reference impl
PeterL: let us know if you have any questions
mangol: great!
mangol: greta!
mangol: heh
PeterL: it is possible to, for example, get blatta running without a v (you just have to apply all the patches manually), but v makes it easier
mangol: does V store a signed tree of commits?
PeterL: not sure I understand the question, but isn't that what vpatches and seals are (maybe trying to mix two different lingos here)?
mangol: https://djrankings.org/DJ-BEN_VULPES << this is what is found when trying to find the V tutorial linked from loper's sidebar
signpost: not the same guy
mangol: looking for the V-jay, not the D-jay
mangol: glorious visual programming future getting closer by the day
signpost: one man's endless quest for the vjay.
signpost: was making a vagina joke over here.
mangol: oh lol
signpost: v centers on the principle that patches are to be first read, later used to modify source code.
signpost: a vpatch contains a keccak hash of each source file antecedent, and out of this forms a tree.
mangol: Vijay (Devanagari विजय; Urdu وجے) is a Hindu male given name meaning 'victory'.
signpost: patches are signed, and signatures are trusted based upon your local trusted keys.
signpost: ben's post will go into more detail
billymg: hiya mangol, been enjoying reading your discussions with the others here
billymg: i maintain the pestnet.io site, afaict it shouldn't be redirecting you to https
signpost: looks like maybe your webserver has a default config for TLS
signpost: browsers are often redirecting to that these days if they find it available.
signpost: (doesn't matter, just explaining what's likely happening)
billymg: signpost: ah, hrm. ok i'll look into that
mangol: billymg: thanks, appreciate it!
mangol: great bunch of people. welcome relief from the naive leftism and lack of vision in most programming communities
mangol: what's the deal with The Most Serene Republic, did mp really believe he'd stand a chance of founding a cryptostate? i wasn't around at the time
PeterL: The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin, which can be viewed as the de jure state occupied by anybody using bitcoin, or more specifically the people in the specific community (vestiges of which are still represented here)
mangol: mainly people around #bitcoin-assets and #trilema AFAICT?
PeterL: you will probably get a different definition from any of the participating people, perhaps asciilifeform or signpost would be more authoratative than I
PeterL: but yes, pretty much it is a way to refer to the people who were in #bitcoin-assets -> #trilema -> #asciilifeform
mangol: was the idea to start by usin bitcoin as money, and eventually (god willing) progress to other things like contracts, legislation, etc.?
mangol: and V is part of the same mentality
PeterL: I suppose v is a natural result of the mentality
PeterL: the idea was to build a cummunity of thinking people with technology designed to support useful interactions (I might be oversimplifying everything here)
PeterL: have you come across the idea of "proceeding from causes ratther than to purposes"?
mangol: not sure. is that the same as bottom-up design, or something fancier?
mangol: i.e. start from first principles and see where you end up
PeterL: http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ << this post I think explains it
PeterL: ^ sorry, this article
PeterL: (at one point mp made a stink about calling things on blogs "articles" instead of "posts")
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-05-05 mircea_popescu: im not making a different country. i'm making THESE countries. let the reds make "their own country", on fucking mars preferably.
mangol: both sides are wrong. clearly the correct term is "poast"
signpost: I didn't write the latter item, but signed.
signpost: hard to summarize the era, except that proceeded from ^ first principles.
signpost: unfortunately ended with mp succumbing to drink, whoring, ocean.
signpost: everything else in bitcoin runs at 100x the classical rate of history, so why not cults too.
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086679 << was this declaration written in earnest?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 14:32:25 signpost: mangol: http://deedbot.org/deed-382703-1.txt << see also
signpost: earnest is what signing means.
verisimilitude: I don't use the word ``blog''; my Gopher hole and website have articles or writings, not posts.
signpost: signed and dated via deedbot, i.e. hashed and hash farted to the bitcoin blockchain
signpost still calls himself ideologically republican.
mangol: "we are absolved from all allegiance to any entity", etc. when the legacy state jackboots arrive, they might beg to differ
signpost: jackboots may arrive for whatever reason they wish, including my political views supposedly protected on a parchment somewhere.
signpost has no delusions of grandeur on ability to wield his will beyond his own arse. doesn't change what's true.
mangol: true things don't rely on signing a document. important people signing documents about what's true is precisely how the derp state corrupts science.
mangol: climate consensus, covid consensus, gender consensus, etc.
signpost: tmsr for a time was an internally ideologically consistent culture.
mangol: an ideologically consistent irc channel
signpost: this is the same "practical" dismissal you leveled at coping with modern computing.
mangol: sorry for playing devilÃ's advocate.just think it's important to have a reality check now and then
signpost: it's a defense mechanism; one wants to believe that there's merit in selecting among doomed alternatives.
signpost: I'm satisfied with being doomed.
signpost: anything beyond it tastes better.
signpost: I will not defeat global communism. it will rot and fall inward. it doesn't need help.
mangol: i don't want to stop anyone from living according to their preferences; just trying to help maintain self-awareness
signpost: tmsr deaded quite a while ago at this point.
mangol: unless i'm reading it wrong somehow, that declaration seems self-unaware to the point that it might harm the signatories
signpost: you'll find pages of critique of the era from myself and others in logs.
PeterL: can it be said to be dead while we yet live?
signpost: mangol: when the russian empire expands to reabsorb finland, will you be glad you behaved according to finland's local religion?
mangol: lol
mangol: i guess my thinking then would be more along the lines of how to avoid trouble
signpost: being worried about particular thinking, or words on a screen, seems strange if freedom of speech is protected.
signpost: the bible commands me to kill to punish certain acts. if I'm a christian, the fact that I don't choose to kill to avoid trouble doesn't change that it's true that god commands it.
signpost understands the practicality of e.g. paying his taxes, w/e
signpost: this doesn't make taxation just, or calling it slavery dangerous.
signpost: the thug will oppress you arbitrarily; don't let him live in your mind also.
mangol: the point i was trying to make is that an irc channel having a declaration of sovereignty sounds like something a teenage libertarian with more IQ than sense might do
signpost ftr loves the dirt on which he lives. the state is not the place.
signpost: it's a lazy dismissal, that.
mangol: in the real world, no state will ask for your opinion on anything like this. finland and russia will never ask my opinion on anything (they might pretend to, via elections)
signpost: that they don't doesn't change what's so.
signpost: it just means a bayonet is up your ass, and I won't fault you for what it makes you say.
signpost: I could counter with a lazy dismissal that a man of a certain age always justifies integration of his oppression to ease the discomfort.
mangol: my mind isn't very successfully oppressed. my body is.
PeterL: mangol: it is/was more than just an IRC channel, the IRC channel was just one way that participants could communicate
signpost: PeterL: eh I don't know. I called it larping myself, and still consider it so.
mangol: the number (and social status, in a very conventional sense) of participants is what really counts, not the communication channels
signpost: *but* this does not make the communist state just, that there's nothing left but larping on IRC about republicanism.
signpost: it was also practically a fanboy cult of personality around mp.
mangol: no normal person thinks communism (or anything approximating it) is just
signpost: anyway, tmsr was a failed social experiment.
mangol: people suck up to the state because it oppresses their bodies if they won't. not because it oppresses their minds (though this certainly helps)
mangol: take away prison, police, military. within a year nobody will obey squat
signpost: glorious leader enjoyed the thing as a kind of porn. network lacked sufficient profit centers and outreach to grow.
signpost: many other problems.
asciilifeform: signpost: imho never got past point of posturing, or to the point of experiment
signpost: sure, wherever one wants to put it on the continuum, so long as it's "not much"
PeterL: would you say Pest is a product of TMSR, or a product of the new era since TMSR died?
asciilifeform: PeterL: can't speak for other folx, but asciilifeform started on the concept before showing up to #t in '14
asciilifeform: for that matter, thimbronion wrote most of the prototype w/out even seeing asciilifeform's spec
asciilifeform: good % of the mechanism is 'obvious' once you realize the need for it
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086708 << worked for poland, eh. 'Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła, Kiedy my żyjemy...'(tm)(r)(c)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 14:53:33 PeterL: can it be said to be dead while we yet live?
signpost: republic's a manner of interacting with other men.
signpost: iirc discussed in logs that "there's only ever one, in the limit"
signpost pretty satisfied that anarchists declaring that the state must be abolished are welcome at every captive-opposition demonstration, but the declaration still has crimethought bite.
signpost: all this aside, and granting that tmsr was mostly words on a screen, it remains an open and urgent problem how to maintain the capability of assembling and thinking publicly.
signpost believes that the solution to that problem will necessarily be republican, which means distributed and gradual hierarchy, inequality, public defense of reason via argument, all these.
asciilifeform: signpost et al: worth noting precisely with what teeth that bite. 'bitcoin exists', pgp exists, and even warez still exists, reich has not been mega-successful in preventing free exchange of bits, or forcing people to sign strings they dun wanna sign. why, remains somewhat of mystery, but imho not unconnected w/ fact that reich functionaries hold btc and don't care to see it devalued
asciilifeform: ( e.g. asciilifeform at one pt predicted that 'anyone caught using bitcoin will end in auschwitz' but this dun seem particularly close to happening )
signpost: asciilifeform: yep, notably a former KGB gent now sits in a tsar's chair. not saying it will go well, but ideology is mutable before will to power.
asciilifeform: signpost: eh asciilifeform was born in the reign of andropov, who in fact went from kgb chair to throne. so current one is 2nd
signpost: would be far better for bitcoin to repair the empire than destroy it, not that it's likely.
signpost: yeah not calling it rare, calling it exactly how goes.
asciilifeform: signpost: point is that there's a hole in traditional reign of the empire -- control over movement of money -- large enough to drive a tanker through. atm not much in the way of tanker tho
signpost: power will seek the most valuable thing, and be shaped by the necessities of obtaining it
asciilifeform: what people appear to lack is the 'why', rather than the 'with what'
asciilifeform: it's rather as if someone had devised a means of baking nuke w/ kitchen supplies, and then turned out that nobody can be arsed
signpost: suicidality is near-ubiquitous, just most aren't capable of consummating.
signpost has interest in distributed tech to walk and order the graph of meat puppets.
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov, the 'meat' of 'tmsr' was the notion of getting the original internet back.
signpost: yes, original in the sense that it was a selection of thinking men, pre-september
asciilifeform: that one.
signpost: implicit wot
asciilifeform: concurrently, to get the original computer back, with it
signpost: the only cultural problem is how to assemble the effective and sane.
signpost: ah, apparently finland has a "don't offend the muslims" law, like much of conquered yurp.
signpost: mangol: sfyl, texas still has members of congress which (for entirely performative reasons) threaten to secede.
signpost not positioning mangol to defend this ideology, of course.
verisimilitude: There's still value in the opposite mode, anonymous forums.
verisimilitude: When the goal be to create something, and it doesn't take years with heavy communication, it can produce good things.
PeterL: anonnymous forums like reddit?
verisimilitude: No, I mean like an image board.
verisimilitude: Reddit is pseudonymous.
PeterL: how is there a difference?
verisimilitude: The 4chan is the most well-known example, although most boards there are garbage; the obscure boards still have some value, however.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: show 1 of these 'good things' ?
asciilifeform: afaik nuffin but the most abject garbage ever emerged from these
verisimilitude: See, I would, but it would reveal my cult affiliation, and so I'd rather not.
signpost: pfffft
signpost: holy shit, verisimilitude is Q
asciilifeform: signpost: lol, the folx w/ 'martians will land and reinstate trump' ?
PeterL: and why don't you want your cult affiliation associated with you here?
verisimilitude: I have different identities for different places.
verisimilitude: This is my primary, but not only, sobriquet.
signpost: asciilifeform: sekret pact with putin to defeat the globalists too!
asciilifeform: aaaha, and capture clitler et al and hang on pedo island. in 2021.
asciilifeform: iirc was promised.
signpost: peasant religion, also an eternal form
signpost: only one
asciilifeform: controlled marionette 'religion' (reminiscent of ye olde 'uniate church' in east europe, where retained orthodox rites but controlled from rome)
signpost: verisimilitude: I can see value in an anonymous hopper for e.g. leaks
signpost: nothing wrong with having private relationships either.
asciilifeform remains unconvinced that 'anon leaks' do anyffin worth mentioning
signpost: only society cannot be built upon these and remain open.
asciilifeform: esp. when they aint of a usable launch code
signpost: not something I feel strongly about
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-08 16:13:39 signpost: is pretty amused that the docs that leaked out of DARPA confirmed that the covid virus was an experimental vaccination platform for bats, and discussion of this disappeared just as quickly.
signpost: yep, fart in the wind, that.
asciilifeform: not to mention, reich puts considerable effort into fabricating hangouts
signpost: "hunter biden laptop!1!!" also
signpost: not saying verisimilitude likes shitting-dick-nipples hentai, but I wouldn't judge!
signpost: bring your kinks out into the light and be free
asciilifeform: observe that not 1 reich crypto key of any consequence (e.g. intel's magick packet) has publicly leaked to date.
signpost: maybe hunger loosens things up, but 100% hypothetical, and not top priority.
signpost: plenty of infrastructure for the honest to build.
asciilifeform: signpost: point being that all 'mega-leaks' to date are entirely consistent w/ 'hangout' pov
verisimilitude: Not everything of worth is about this, asciilifeform.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: said somewhere that was ?
signpost: granted. covid thing, for example, says to a certain demo that "patriots in the military are fighting the good fight"
asciilifeform: gotta point out ftr, tho, that 100% of 'anon leaks' to date were unactionable horseshit
verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086777 Sometimes the good thing can just be someone sharing something inconsequential he made.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 16:09:01 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: show 1 of these 'good things' ?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: nobody's begrudging you yer lolcats
verisimilitude: I'm not the one with a meme cat on his website.
verisimilitude: It's a cool meme cat, but a meme cat all the same.
signpost: hueee
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it's 1 of the moar famous memecats at that
asciilifeform at one pt read (ru) anonpits, quit 'cold turkey' & never looked back
signpost: vzhuk! << does this approximate the magic word's pronunciation?
PeterL: sort of like swoosh?
signpost had been meaning to ask
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086749 << there's a depressing explanation for the lax attitude toward crypto (both money & messaging): powerful people who could use those things to topple the system benefit more from the current system
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 15:26:22 asciilifeform: signpost et al: worth noting precisely with what teeth that bite. 'bitcoin exists', pgp exists, and even warez still exists, reich has not been mega-successful in preventing free exchange of bits, or forcing people to sign strings they dun wanna sign. why, remains somewhat of mystery, but imho not unconnected w/ fact that reich functionaries hold btc and don't care to see it devalued
mangol: iirc last year at least a couple of prominent people were whacked
asciilifeform: mangol: the moar interesting aspect is that folx who nominally oppose reich regularly fall for its various honeypots
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-14 13:55:28 asciilifeform: btw recall the pompous 'busts' of derps who baked 'eevil seekrit turdroid pnojes for mafia' ?
asciilifeform: which btw includes any and all 'bitcoin exchanges'
asciilifeform: likewise, the 'prominent people' are 'prominent' strictly in that reich-controlled publications decree them 'prominent'
mangol: that's the ideal outcome, isn't it? trap the self-styled rebels in state-backed controlled opposition
asciilifeform: worx great historically
asciilifeform: 'upload yer privkey to keybase today!' etc
mangol: just like wage slavery is state-sanctioned self-actualization, without posing the danger (to the state) of self-actualization with perspective
mangol: the best traps are always the ones that give people an illusion of agency without actual agency
mangol: since people are different, gotta have a variety of traps with different aesthetics
asciilifeform: mangol: imho the interesting thing is precisely how tediously similar to 1 another are the traps
asciilifeform: all the variations on the theme of 'let this here Very Trusted 3rd party have yer privkeys' for instance
asciilifeform: usually in conjunction with 'run this Very Secure cryptoturd on mswin'
signpost: the slot's already there to receive command.
asciilifeform: covers just about all of'em
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-06-24 12:55:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-06-24#1015278 << the key to this 'roman a clef' is quite simple. in usg there are two subgroups -- one is privy to the '90s change of strategy where 'instead of trying to ban pgp / 'make water not wet' -- we'll encourage proliferation of faux crypto and honeypot 'services' ' ; the other, not privy. the latter continue the clinton-era bloviations a la 'clipper' .
signpost: the state's not protecting itself from thinking men. they're usually self-interested.
signpost: it's making sure joe stacks crash their plane into the IRS office when it's mostly empty.
asciilifeform: signpost: for the most part, the 'stacks' begin & end with 'hatespeech' on arsebook and duly picked up
asciilifeform: as is the intent of the herders
signpost doesn't begrudge herding these in the slightest.
mangol: when said 'stacks' don't work for the same org as the people picking them up to begin with
signpost emits a parser error
asciilifeform: mangol: recent lulz illustrative
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-25 19:33:42 asciilifeform: is funny, how erry time they need to agitate for yr+, bus in over9000 morons of both hat colours into some shithole, and spend 1e8$ on provocateurs, to get 1-2 corpses
signpost: mangol: joe stack died, so I doubt he worked for usg in that regard.
signpost: but yeah, many are provocateurs, as in jan 6
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-09-22 13:16:22 asciilifeform: was domestic application of 'controlled chaos' lizard doctrine that worked a++ in afganistan, syria, etc. -- 'obsolete' young men, 'nothing to do', join mujahedeen/isis/$usg-muppet-org-of-the-day, put on shaheed belt, explode where instructed to by handler-provocateur.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-07-02 19:59:08 asciilifeform: shinohai: the morons' attempts at 'crypto' imho are quite reminiscent at '90s arab attempts to bake nuke (where they'd sell one another, and buy from usg provocateurs, 'mysterious artifacts' with cyrillic labels, + alchemical formulae to go with'em )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-02 21:02:07 asciilifeform: still waiting for 'uprising' that isn't run by the usual mix of provocateurs and semiliterate roomtemp-iq waco fodders
mangol: indeed, the lack of high-ranking defectors (e.g. military) is a bit puzzling given that the estabilshment is growing more incompetent by the week
signpost: into what, is the problem.
PeterL: you expect them to jump from one failing state into another?
signpost: the US military will exist long after a hypothetical fall of the USG.
mangol: in some places they'd have a lot of support from the masses too, the memetic groundwork has been laid. asciilifeform, there's your 4 chan use case
signpost: can start going by A, take pictures on a white steed with US flag in hand.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 14:34:41 mangol: both sides are wrong. clearly the correct term is "poast"
signpost would rather infect .mil with the subversive idea of a free republic, have them question why the tooling from such beats the shit out of their plasticware.
signpost: crtdaydreams: poast is a pretty bog standard IRC corruption of spelling.
crtdaydreams: signpost: herm. new to me, only place I've heard it used is the standard for pleroma instances.
crtdaydreams: or was it mastodon?
crtdaydreams: eh. anyways.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086863 << familiar w/ the term 'sausage emigre' ? atm there aint a place 'with better sausage', and ergo 'nowhere to defect to'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 17:02:26 mangol: indeed, the lack of high-ranking defectors (e.g. military) is a bit puzzling given that the estabilshment is growing more incompetent by the week
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 09:51:16 mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086523 << if the internet splinters, it'll be even harder than now to find information, and esoteric info hardest of all
signpost: less spam crtdaydreams
crtdaydreams did not mean to spam :(
crtdaydreams will not do it again
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-06-07 14:25:20 asciilifeform: ru storyteller v. pelevin had a scene where 'we had sovok, but to ours, people could bring bootleg jeans and music. and it was even possible to get out. now you have one in usa, but there is important difference : no one will bring bootleg jeans to it, and no one will get out, because it hasn't got an outside'
mangol: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086876 << i wouldn't expect them to defect to another country, but to try and reinstate a non-terminal gov't in their current one. not all high-ranking people have a volcano lair to fly to
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 17:08:35 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086863 << familiar w/ the term 'sausage emigre' ? atm there aint a place 'with better sausage', and ergo 'nowhere to defect to'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086867 << 'support from mass' does precisely 0. even if you could get it, which you can't, cuz, see above, 'sausage'-seeking amoebas following the gradient.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 17:04:03 mangol: in some places they'd have a lot of support from the masses too, the memetic groundwork has been laid. asciilifeform, there's your 4 chan use case
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-08 17:58:54 asciilifeform: imho there is no actual advantage to deliberately taking the position of amoeba, living 'on birds' rights' among people; only illusory 'advantages'. but it is not simple to convince noobs of this, typically they gotta see (or not) for themselves.
asciilifeform: mangol: the current government serves the rulers just fine
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-14 14:13:44 asciilifeform: from the pov of the perps -- for whom 'function' is 'keep the yachts afloat' -- never been healthier
asciilifeform must bbl
crtdaydreams: re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
crtdaydreams: I don't see the necessity to obfuscate torrent traffic with flood-network
crtdaydreams: If you are running perse; radio, you're going to want ~all~ the bandwith you can get.
crtdaydreams: I suggest using at tracker over pest because you could design a tracker that certain files are available only to a selected participant on pest; i.e. the one with the PK to decrypt.
mats: asciilifeform: some of those drops have discernible impacts, like the various icij leaks
crtdaydreams: Pub vs Priv DHT availability.
mats: revenue authorities have targeted relevant nationals for enforcement action, and presumably was also used to target ru oligarchs in recent weeks
mats: nsa appears to like fronting their leaks under the anon banner
asciilifeform: mats: these are precisely the reich hangouts asciilifeform was referring to
asciilifeform: they aint leaks in the 'grassroots' sense normally propagandized
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086895 << have you considered actually reading the spec ??
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 17:27:27 crtdaydreams: re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
asciilifeform: for fucks sake
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086901 << the ru oligarchs fwiw were creatures of the reich, whose purpose was to steal & exfiltrate as much as possible of what 80yrs of collective orcish sweat had built. and nao that the brakes were hit on this exfiltration, naturally, 'pig aint gonna get any fatter, time for the knife'
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 17:34:22 mats: revenue authorities have targeted relevant nationals for enforcement action, and presumably was also used to target ru oligarchs in recent weeks
mats: there’s fed defectors
mats: like that idiot who carefully drafted covid disinfo without letterhead, filled with redactions, spelling errors, posted here
mats: and the active duty dummies who showed up for jan6
mats: well, one ad and four army reserve/ng, ad guy caught a charge
signpost: !!gettrust crtdaydreams
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
signpost: time to stop trying to satisfy your urges by making noise, and read *deeply* the pest spec, all of loper-os, and come back with questions or not at all.
signpost: *questions*, not proposals for the one-weird-trick-they-don't-want-you-to-know re: p2p
signpost: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 728436
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 8
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086911 << esp. lulzy when reich packages coupla actual facts in 'cheap disinfo with broken letterhead' etc.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 18:51:48 mats: like that idiot who carefully drafted covid disinfo without letterhead, filled with redactions, spelling errors, posted here
asciilifeform: y'know, just in case the actual doc were somehow to leak.
mats: dunno, that smelled like an out and out classic project veritas job by a uniform careful enough to not commit an actual crime
signpost: "Mark, I know you are literally the world's leading expert on this concept of veil piercing in the sovereign debt context. Can creditors -- even at a low probability estimation -- go after any of the oligarch assets?" << these people really want total war, eh?
signpost: $150 bil in foreign debt, what a dream.
signpost: "And if there are sanctions, we're gonna pay in rubles. As Mark articulated it to me a couple of days ago, it's as if the investors are giving Putin insurance for doing bad stuff." << fascinating, seems well played on his part.
mats: its hard to say who will hurt more, the west or ru, after it all, but the chinese will surely benefit
signpost: well played from a bad position. definitely cn wins.
mats: the americans demonstrated a rare and incredible capacity for multilateral diplomacy not seen in decades, and also threatened the future of dollar dominance, to stick it to the jr partner in the cn-ru alliance
mats: there was a time when the americans swallowed their polemic about democracy and worked with mao to push back the soviets, and couldn't fucking figure out how to switch sides this go around
mats: would not have bought biden as an accelerationist 3 months ago, but here we are
signpost: at current levels of corruption not surprised the thing only works in reverse.
mats: ru is ~11% of the planet's land mass, and their combined land and surface area of water is almost as much as the next two countries (ca and cn, or ca and usa) combined, they are relatively self sufficient as far as energy and food goes, they can endure a lot of pain being short of western goods and services in the ~decade long transition it'll take to send their commodities to the east
mats: and it may never be as good in ru as it was six months ago
mats: what a colossal waste of resources
mats: the supply chain fuckup will be extraordinary
crtdaydreams: Need a clarification on pest spec re: 2.4 AT
crtdaydreams: If someone currently peered sends a message from a new IP not currently registered in AT, will the AT update or will the message be discarded as martian before it can be processed?
signpost: mats: I have zero notion of the pain tolerance of the russian population; too bad phf isn't around to say.
signpost: *current pain tolerance, certainly past pain tolerance is legendary
crtdaydreams: I ask because 2.4s current wording is explicitly that IPs do not update even if the key is peered. Wherin the AT command issued in 2.5.2 explicity states it will be updated.
signpost: crtdaydreams: where are you reading the spec? this says "AT is used exclusively for determining where to send outgoing packets" and "automatically updated"
crtdaydreams: billymg's prettyprinted ver. mebbe I misread
crtdaydreams: no. I misunderstood.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086933 << diplomacy is sumthing that happens b/w actual sovereign countries. reich issuing marching orders to its satrapies aint it
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 22:57:15 mats: the americans demonstrated a rare and incredible capacity for multilateral diplomacy not seen in decades, and also threatened the future of dollar dominance, to stick it to the jr partner in the cn-ru alliance
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086937 << the terrifying!11 pain of being deprived of the ipnoje! and mcshitburgers..
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 23:00:19 mats: ru is ~11% of the planet's land mass, and their combined land and surface area of water is almost as much as the next two countries (ca and cn, or ca and usa) combined, they are relatively self sufficient as far as energy and food goes, they can endure a lot of pain being short of western goods and services in the ~decade long transition it'll take to send their commodities to the east
asciilifeform: meanwhile tw has 4-6mo to discover how to fab ic w/out rare earths from ru, usa -- how to fission dirt instead of refuned u from ru, etc
crtdaydreams: asciilifeform: pest: Any particular reason __why__ the black packet sig is is verified in __random__ order?
asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: familiar with notion of side channel info leakage?
crtdaydreams: No, will google. Thanks
asciilifeform: enemy has no biz learning how many peers you have, or which peer a packet verified as having been issued by, by timing packets in flight (enemy can be assumed to possess all transmitted packets and accurate timing for same)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-21 23:15:12 signpost: crtdaydreams: where are you reading the spec? this says "AT is used exclusively for determining where to send outgoing packets" and "automatically updated"
asciilifeform: in all versions of the spec.
crtdaydreams: asciilifeform: ^^^ misunderstood, wording was a bit funny when I went over it the first time
crtdaydreams: Side channel leak mitigation nao makes sense.
crtdaydreams wonders at what other mitigations glossed over or couldn't know exist
asciilifeform will bbl
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