snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 20:56:57 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927727 << precisely right. what wedges, from my investigation here and elsewhere, is the seam between cl+ssl and openssl.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929258 << hrm i cannot resist to ask : what's ssl doing in there ?
asciilifeform: trinque: whatcha working on these days ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and perhaps also , the 'Account management is done through RSA process' oughta point to mp's 'social engineering' article
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: trinque has a point ; turn the 'BMC' into link to 1 of the pertinent qntras plox
asciilifeform: it's been there since 1st day of new logtron
asciilifeform: trinque: apropos -- i took the liberty to put piz banner on http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/ ( btw open to improvements, if someone knows how to draw... )
BingoBoingo: Not at the moment.
trinque: running any ads anywhere for the site?
BingoBoingo: Latest is that what was a disaster appears to have been normalized in argentine dialog while Fitch just downgraded then from B to CCC
BingoBoingo: I'll have to take a break from reading news from the other side of the river for the laffs.
BingoBoingo: trinque: ty, copy's due for another cleaning indeed
trinque: "Getting machines to the DC is a bit of a hike, and you're welcome to ship out with one of our supply runs to the "space station".
trinque: BingoBoingo: open at all to copy improvements on the pizarroisp.net site?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 08:33:52 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926224 << perhaps quarter dead, but days go to going to hospital for daily wounds dressing, sleeping a lot and going for walks, i have another sugery on monday to close me up.
lobbes: the moral, I guess, is 'pretense kills'.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 20:54:50 trinque: the fog was induced by you being on your ass if anything; never blame a substance
trinque: if we are content with that deedbot may come back under a different name (as if freenode is the canonical repository of anything) I'll remove the SSL cruft.
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927727 << precisely right. what wedges, from my investigation here and elsewhere, is the seam between cl+ssl and openssl.
trinque: the fog was induced by you being on your ass if anything; never blame a substance
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 16:46:59 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: you actually improved my archive process with just such a bash one-liner. I still use it to this day to get around the 'cloudflare' crapola. But you know, 10 years spent in a pot-induced fog tends to make one miss the obvious. I'm working with a new brain these days
trinque: hm lemme switch links from now on then.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 13:09:14 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: here is a re-encrypted copy of the encrypted message you sent me earlier as evidence I have the private key: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Kkmtg/?raw=true
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 00:44:50 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: I can't decrypt the invoice - it is encrypted to a key I don't have.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-11#1927317 << am looking into it this evening. there's a known issue with moving keys from A to B that I'm going to resolve
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/usta-swingers-club-ul-jozefa-strusia-5-in-warsaw-poland-and-other-things/ << Trilema -- Usta Swingers Club (ul. Jzefa Strusia 5), in Warsaw, Poland ; and other things.
BingoBoingo: Could also migrate from Alaska to Canada. More easily than Greenland to anywhere else. Gotta keep the inmates in.
BingoBoingo: Apparently Minnesota doesn't have enough room to resettle all of the warm climate "refugees" into proper cold climates?
asciilifeform: wai now the bargain bin.
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929009 << tyvm, seems like the epic week of keks has slowed down substantially today. Unless rumors and inuendos the Pantsuits want to talk about concerning how Trump may or may not be trying to negotiate a Greenland purchase count.
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928785 <-- ftr, just to make sure this isn't lost: this is the next item on my list after thetarpit commentz and hunchentoot genesis.
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09b-hunchentoot-v.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: taskmaster code review
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929170 << abolished by peter I . what's ~it~ doing in unicode ? and if ~this~ is there, wainot also egyptian hiroglyphs ?
asciilifeform: ♨ << loox like 'java log' ?!! (what's it doing in unicoad? is there 'coca cola' logo also?! and if not -- wainot?? )
asciilifeform: or i suppose possible that these are in fact microshit 'wingdings', and the genuine q/r/etc are elsewhere in that talmud
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929178 << these btw are mutilated, as per mp's description, on erry terminal i have. evidently bakers of uniturd standard never bothered to open a maffs schoolbook...
asciilifeform: i'ma leave off with these, cuz erryone prolly already tossed their lunch ; but who has idea re others, welcome to throw in.
mp_en_viaje: 🜷 alkali ; 🝤 putrefaction ; 🜀 aether ; 🜰 regular antimony and so following
mp_en_viaje: ⎲ ⎳ << check it out, they have large sum!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 21:23:52 asciilifeform: 'I mean literally, the guy's from Washitistan, they write things with their own excrement there, and the Unicode Foundation introduced actual excrement in the standard so now whenever someone asks for the networking code in your project they are delivered physical faeces on cardboard. About fifty eight acres of it. Where would you like this put, sir ?' (tm)(r)(mp)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje when you wake up, plox to reissue the barfologies if you still have'em handy. whole episode may easily be 'coarse error of pilotage' of asciilifeform
asciilifeform unplugs the one in #asciilifeform-test , is redundant nao
asciilifeform: on 2nd thought, i'ma do the swap nao, ~erryone seems to be asleep
asciilifeform would like to add hexdump logging on all eggog, before resetting the main bot
asciilifeform: phf: ty; appears to be the reason for the barf seen vs. lobbes's collection of barfolade. nao need to reproduce mp_en_viaje's
asciilifeform: the latin-1 fallbacks, per phf's algo, re-encode happily, python per se dun barf. postgres barfs when fed the result.
asciilifeform: phf: this -- worx . this is not the problem. problem happens when the re-encoded string is fed to postgres.
phf: well, correct hence "something else wrong", i've only verified what i already knew, that latin-1 decoded to "unicode" is otherwise indistinguishable from any other unicode, and can then be encoded to utf-8
asciilifeform: the phf-style variant is currently sitting in #asciilifeform-test , btw, and can be diddled , put turd there and try to search for it, if it's in the test bot's log, search will return correct res
asciilifeform: phf: the issue seems to be postgres , i.e. mine is set to utf8 , so anything that is to sit down in it gotta validly re-encode to utf8
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 09:52:44 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929071 << the interesting bit is that i got 0 barf when importing phf's log (i.e. including all of the historic uniturds seen in log in 'era 2')
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929100 << particular utf-8 otherwise latin-1 trick also exists in cl-irc for example (i believe the python irc logger i looked at long time ago also had it), so log messages that a111 gets are already converted in this way.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 09:49:00 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje when you wake up, plz describe how you actually got the barfola into yer irc client, so can reproduce.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 08:00:13 mp_en_viaje: the only possible conclusion is that unicode support is actually broken on either the flask, the python outright, or some other library asciilifeform is using there. it's true that it was coincidentally discovered by cp1252 translation failure, but it is not limited to that. things missing from nsa log like the micron above are plain unicode and correctly quoted as such by my terminal.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929071 << the interesting bit is that i got 0 barf when importing phf's log (i.e. including all of the historic uniturds seen in log in 'era 2')
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje when you wake up, plz describe how you actually got the barfola into yer irc client, so can reproduce.
asciilifeform: (i.e. #asciilifeform-test bot happily eats 100% of the examples )
asciilifeform: grrr apparently can't reproduce by pasting from phf's log, cuz -- surprise!111 -- it all turns into valid utf8 when displayed there
asciilifeform: ^ this one is the last-vpatch ver
asciilifeform: however, the bot that is here , does ~not~ have the phf pill, that one is in #asciilifeform-test
asciilifeform: uniturd search worked from day 1 ( of items that actually made it into the db, that is )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 22:21:36 asciilifeform: btw just as i thought, lobbes's searchtron fails if fed the liquishit in question.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928989 << i dun think there's any merit to getting unicode ~search~ going ; the specification of search in #13 implicitly exclues them. plainascii search is good enough.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 21:27:38 asciilifeform: unless someone supplies, in next coupla days, a simple AND WORKING pill, i'ma do this : anything coming into the bot that dun decode cleanly as utf8, will have the offending chars (i.e. any with 8th bit set) replaced with that glyph that depicts a steaming pile of shit.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928982 << there's nothing in principle wrong with this solution. there may be some practical concerns (ie, might want to get a working unicode set first) ; but other than that i don't see the advantage to having numbers-in-a-rectangle, for instance, in preference of a fixed turd.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 10:08:52 mircea_popescu: meanwhikle at cuntcamps, gut feelings are your guardian angel
mp_en_viaje: trilema/2019-08-10#1927160][feelings] indicate was the rapist" or any such nonsense, neh ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928975 << well ok, but you could also just you know, run the unicode table through the system and see where the problems are and why, ie exactly what i've done above. not like it was some kind of high arcana or anything, neh, when confronted with unexpected behaviour run the whole class through see what hapens, rather than "try to divine a culprit" or "who do your [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/
mp_en_viaje: for reference, i've also echoed the 48 lines through lynx-php-mysql ; they're visible php-yourbrowser at http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130940 ; it croaks (as expected) on the first codepoint with no associated glyph (ln20).
mp_en_viaje: now that we're talking about this, i recall a similar (if more restrained) experiment with phf, maybe cca late 2017, and he went away and came back with a properly wroking logger a week or so later -- though i dunno that he ever wrote a blog article detailing the problem and its solution
mp_en_viaje: note that both loggers miss some glyphs, rendering them as eg 01f737 in a box. this is different behaviour from simply dropping the line.
mp_en_viaje: the only possible conclusion is that unicode support is actually broken on either the flask, the python outright, or some other library asciilifeform is using there. it's true that it was coincidentally discovered by cp1252 translation failure, but it is not limited to that. things missing from nsa log like the micron above are plain unicode and correctly quoted as such by my terminal.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 07:55:31 mp_en_viaje: this then completes our foray into the unpleasant.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 07:33:56 mp_en_viaje: let's do some selected testing then.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-16#1929044 to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-16#1929092 ie 48 lines vs http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929021 to http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929066 aka 45 lines. the actual linecount as issued is 48.
mp_en_viaje: 🜷 alkali ; 🝤 putrefaction ; 🜀 aether ; 🜰 regular antimony and so following
mp_en_viaje: ⎲ ⎳ << check it out, they have large sum!
mp_en_viaje: let's do some selected testing then.
mp_en_viaje: i originally thought one actually needs http://www.cp1252.com/ to illustrate the breakage (whence i copied the original lines missing from log above), however this is not actually so.
mp_en_viaje: the breakage more extensive than asciilifeform diagnosed.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 21:19:29 asciilifeform: why the fuck is this even a good idea ? to support arbitrary liquishit in logs ? imho the Right Thing would be 'if you want yer logs imported or echoed, put'em into utf8 or stuff up arse' .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 15:00:45 BingoBoingo: It amazes me how many "Anti-socialist" alt-alt rags are pointedly NOT highlighting Black American Patriot Maurice Hill as a warrior against the state
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928947 << they're weev-like/yarvin-like femstate cucks, not there for any other purpose than to explain how great the Inca actually is.
mp_en_viaje: ("oh but mp, it wasn't TRILEMA that opened the floodgates ; they just opened coincidentally". "really bitch ? and back in 2014, when you were supposed to show me your tits, your optionality was pushing you to nonsense arguments like "bitcoin is doomed" and "[http://trilema.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/?b=Wait%20until&e=TERRORISM#select][mp is in imminent
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 02:06:25 mp_en_viaje: All the CP1252 characters are also available in Unicode. For example the CP1252 character 146 that you mentioned (RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK) has the Unicode number 8217, therefore you should use this number in order to conform to the HTML standard. Modern HTML browsers like Netscape 4.0 understand Unicode, and will automatically convert the Unicode character ’ back into the character 146 on MS-Windows machines, and into the appropriate ch
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 14:05:50 asciilifeform: lobbes, mp_en_viaje , et al : strangely, having problem reproducing the unibarf discovered by lobbes . pasting the text from the barf samples into test chan, doesn't produce the expected barf, it gets eaten normally
mp_en_viaje: you know i was at club last night, with the only two cunts anyone'd fuckl in the joint, and this moronic twentysomething (groomed beard, of course) sat next to me while one was off getting more drinks to explain to me what his needs were ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 11:14:45 asciilifeform: loox like a schoolboy site of the '90s style ( 'learn haxxing! phreaking!' ) and dusty.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928938 << it exactly is. back in 2014. when what they ~should~have been doing was showing us their tits. and complete with "selling imaginary pets for bitcoin" and assorted "ima bring reality to my level, the alternative's too much work" bullshit.
lobbes: In either case, I'll be spending some time this evening working on genesis-ing my own current #e logotron. If anything just for posterity
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 21:27:38 asciilifeform: unless someone supplies, in next coupla days, a simple AND WORKING pill, i'ma do this : anything coming into the bot that dun decode cleanly as utf8, will have the offending chars (i.e. any with 8th bit set) replaced with that glyph that depicts a steaming pile of shit.
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928982 << I personally dun have any issue with this, but that is just me. Any yeah, not like someone down the line can't make a vpatch for a pill
asciilifeform: and if someone wants to write 100,000 lines of shitython to write 'dwim', let him fucking scroll to the bottom of the log page, click 'get source', grab the fucking vtree, and write.
asciilifeform: let the people who smeared the 58 acres of shit on cardboard, stuffed it into their modem, and sent it to fleanode, clean it up.
snsabot: Logged on 2018-02-02 11:23:06 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die.
asciilifeform: there exist, incidentally, at least a dozen liquishit encodings that aint either ascii or utf8. and SOMEBODY's terminal supports'em. but imho the fact that fleanode actually eats and relays these, is a bug! of fleanode.
asciilifeform: unless someone supplies, in next coupla days, a simple AND WORKING pill, i'ma do this : anything coming into the bot that dun decode cleanly as utf8, will have the offending chars (i.e. any with 8th bit set) replaced with that glyph that depicts a steaming pile of shit.
asciilifeform: 'I mean literally, the guy's from Washitistan, they write things with their own excrement there, and the Unicode Foundation introduced actual excrement in the standard so now whenever someone asks for the networking code in your project they are delivered physical faeces on cardboard. About fifty eight acres of it. Where would you like this put, sir ?' (tm)(r)(mp)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 21:16:03 asciilifeform: ~pasting~ e.g. '2000000 ÷ (154 × 1088 × 1.25) = 9.549274255x' dun trigger the barfolade, btw. cuz on civilized box, lobbes's txt is ALREADY utf8 when yer viewing it. only triggering lobbes's echo , where it pisses the malcoded garbage straight into irc, triggers.
asciilifeform: why the fuck is this even a good idea ? to support arbitrary liquishit in logs ? imho the Right Thing would be 'if you want yer logs imported or echoed, put'em into utf8 or stuff up arse' .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 22:26:42 lobbes: and for good measure, the original list with loglines
asciilifeform: ~pasting~ e.g. '2000000 ÷ (154 × 1088 × 1.25) = 9.549274255x' dun trigger the barfolade, btw. cuz on civilized box, lobbes's txt is ALREADY utf8 when yer viewing it. only triggering lobbes's echo , where it pisses the malcoded garbage straight into irc, triggers.
BingoBoingo: It's also not like the wounded don't get disability pensions, often concurrent with ongoing paycheck.
asciilifeform: previous newswanks suggest that they can.
asciilifeform: tru. ( tho iirc they get widow pensions, etc. also adding up to pretty penny )
BingoBoingo: Also the dead don't need 100 USD aspirins etc
BingoBoingo: Well, wounded more expensive than the dead
asciilifeform: whoknows, maybe ashamed, fella apparently not master marksman, all the targets lived ?
BingoBoingo: It amazes me how many "Anti-socialist" alt-alt rags are pointedly NOT highlighting Black American Patriot Maurice Hill as a warrior against the state
asciilifeform: lobbes, mp_en_viaje , et al : strangely, having problem reproducing the unibarf discovered by lobbes . pasting the text from the barf samples into test chan, doesn't produce the expected barf, it gets eaten normally
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-15 12:11:56 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-15#1000191 That was a disgustingly fleshed out, but weirdly instructive story which made me laugh (a bit) and cringe (a lot). I'm not sure if I'll eat anything for awhile, but I get what you meant. That being said, - I can't think of any non-docker solution to a reproducible environment other than creating a 'frozen version', preferably under version
asciilifeform: loox like a schoolboy site of the '90s style ( 'learn haxxing! phreaking!' ) and dusty.
mp_en_viaje: i might end up discovering you cut too much, but what's the big deal, original still remains, can be easily fixed, and we learn thingsfor the money.
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928713 << gave it a quick read, this should be enough for me to continue with writing the tests. i might have questions later as i make progress, will leave comments on the post if so
lobbes: and for good measure, the original list with loglines
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-birth-order-are-first-borns-always-older-than-their-siblings-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Birth Order: Are First Borns Always Older Than Their Siblings? Adnotated.
asciilifeform: iirc there's leaked sores
asciilifeform assumed, tho never found out, that then 70 spent on sofas.
mp_en_viaje: imagine that lulz. and they got... a lamp.
asciilifeform once listened to a d00d, who, with straight face, 'we then got $100m in series-a fund; but of course immediately 30 had to spend on web site..'
mp_en_viaje: that;s the other thign re tumblr : it likely costs 1-2mn/month to run as it is. could prolly be ran for 1-200k, but as you point out, not by esltards.
asciilifeform: well also in http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/
mp_en_viaje: all the usg webshits are exercises in http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/#comment-130435
asciilifeform: + even possible that the best financial health it was ever in, was '07, when all it owed was 4figs to old man graham
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'oldcunt lobby' prolly Officially holds that gurlz 'peak' at 55. they can apply their standard, i can apply other.
asciilifeform: aaha, from my pov. when it was a hand-sewn www forum for 20 or so commonlisp holdouts 'who didn't know the war ended'(tm)
mp_en_viaje: this is like saying internet peaked in 1992. sure, by any other criterion than whatever they actually use.
asciilifeform: ( of readability, rather than mass )
asciilifeform: iirc it even existed, in embryonic form, then
mp_en_viaje: well, reddit couldn't have emptied at same time as it ~didn't exist back then. but still, they did their best and 2012ish or so i think it was ?
mp_en_viaje: reddit emptied out once they turned on their pedo constituency to gain approval from the oldcunt lobby.
asciilifeform: hm i thought 'digg' mostly emptied out in the infamous 'decss incident'
BingoBoingo: They charge ~100 bucks a year for "use own domain with wordpress.com blog" or something like that
mp_en_viaje: otherwise, ===/
mp_en_viaje: digg ~still~ pretends to relevancy, to this very day. their claim just as good at any point throughout as reddit's, actually. just... no note from hitler, meaning pravda dun ever mention digg with the pomp & implication it mentions reddit
asciilifeform: aa ha 'the parent company of Wordpress.com, the popular online publishing system' apparently
asciilifeform: i guess possible, '"I s-s-said that they w-w-weren't hogs. They were s-sows", Slim managed to choke out, so overcome with fear that a thin stream of hot liquid diarreah began to dribble...'
mp_en_viaje: nah, different ends. these 200k are ~equivalent of rounding up 100k girlies in india / rwanda refugee camp etc.
asciilifeform: if i understand correctly the ad-chumpatron , these 200 will be paid in 'coupon good to buy ads yourself' or other 'iou'
mp_en_viaje: eh, what's pron traffic anymore, a buck per thousand clicks ? if half those pageviews are real there you go, 200k/month or so.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 18:46:25 mp_en_viaje: and automattic paid in kelly bundy money. hey dorks... you could've hit me up, the half bitcoin or w/e you actually got for the "valuable online property" is not so hard to match for the actual billionaires in this world.
mp_en_viaje: same dumb cunts, except esl rather than rsl.
BingoBoingo: Indeed. They also speak more clearly and more kitchen competent.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, not to mention venezuelan chicks fuckable in the first place.
mp_en_viaje: to continue the keks : "PC Magazine reported that in December, Tumblr had an estimated 520 million visits, which dropped to 436 million in January and then 369 million in February." ; https://i.ibb.co/VL0Vmps/lulztumblr.png
BingoBoingo: Seriously. I suspect the fact you might have actually bought it if they solicited bids is why the details are undisclosed
mp_en_viaje: fancy that, could've put it right back on the street, ban anyone who ~never~ published any cunt instead.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 04:22:13 mp_en_viaje: ant to continue : https://internet.com/ ; much like IAC, QuinnStreet is a "S&P 600 Component", you know, with supposed revenue out of those shit "properties" and assorted other self-imagined bullshit. believe.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-05-18 02:05:52 mp_en_viaje: because it takes a certain dose of insanity to think the equation you solved was the equation that was being presented. you recall that episone in married with children when christina applegate was saving cereal box K's to buy car ?
mp_en_viaje: and automattic paid in kelly bundy money. hey dorks... you could've hit me up, the half bitcoin or w/e you actually got for the "valuable online property" is not so hard to match for the actual billionaires in this world.
diana_alt: hello from Vilnius, /me slowly catches up with the logs
asciilifeform: i vaguely suspected that phf's proggy exists as currently-unreproducible (i.e. not fully represented by the source) 'save-lisp-and-die' ball
asciilifeform: phf: my logbot genesis is some of the ugliest piece of shit yet put through 'v' . so dun be afraid to publish similar.
asciilifeform: phf: at the risk of 'broken record', i gotta say that all of this would be 9000x moar helpful if existed as genesis , rather than asciilifeform to sit and derive from old logs and phf's summary, how was done.
asciilifeform: right, assumed that phf meant 'znc' in abstract, i.e. any proggy that logs straight to txt , rather than concretely znc
phf: also znc is incidental, i have a trivial flask (or maybe "bottle") server that parses znc logs and gives the result out in the log-format
phf: accommodate drift). the messages are then merged into the log (i.e. i find the overlap of known messages, and then add the missing messages). since both znc and a111 tend to be fairly stable, the combination of the two provided adequate coverage
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 13:14:01 asciilifeform: this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928700 << in general this hasn't happened to a111 (though i don't have full netsplit coverage, since that requires a bot per all the possible servers we are connected to), i've described the solution in logs, though i can't find it now. when a111 falls over, on reconnect it asks the znc machine to give it all the messages since the timestamp of last known message (+3 hours to
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's logger intended moar as ice breaker ship, to make the subj navigable, than final solution. and 'final' -- as already detailed by mp_en_viaje -- would be a constellation of heterogeneous items that know how to speak a common sync, operated by diff people.
asciilifeform ended up with 'партия сказала надо -- комсомол ответил: есть!' but largely from lack of any apparent motion on front by other folx
asciilifeform actually found himself sitting to think, for hour+, before picking up the logger grenade
asciilifeform: i dun so much suffer from anxieties, but would like folx to know that currently asciilifeform built not proper wall, but the kind portrayed in mp_en_viaje's old ro piece where 'builder stands and holds up'
mp_en_viaje: and dun let the (understandable) anxiety of it eat your brain. we shall figure it out, on the basis of meeting it irl.
asciilifeform: but 'weather' will remain open q .
asciilifeform: i'ma fix the uni-idjicy found by lobbes ( and apparently described in log by phf 2+ y ago ) , and add the 'did i join or am i pissing into wind' detector discussed 2d ago, to bot
asciilifeform: unlike the gurlz, i dun need particularly anyone to 'feel for', but would like something resembling a sustainable algo.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 13:42:26 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, but hard to like-phf when actually communicating things, on one hand. and on the other, hopefully multiple of these.
mp_en_viaje: you didn't miss the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928746 part, did you ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 13:41:36 asciilifeform: i'd like to avoid the situation where ' asciilifeform fixed on best-effort basis, and 1 time breaks leg' and then like phf.
asciilifeform: cuz the alternative is eventually http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928742 . sooner or later.
asciilifeform: i admit, i half-expected mp_en_viaje to pick up his skepter and declare 'this here is only working logger atm, and the breaking turd is a uniturd from bot, let errybody else lose the 6lines'
asciilifeform: ideally by then can auto-sync from e.g. diana's bot in fortran
mp_en_viaje: well, maybe not the very-next
asciilifeform: i'ma fix the uniturdism in coming days. and diddle the log as described by mp_en_viaje . but when next net split, or bot eventually falls (no one afaik has yet written/hosted bot that did not fall at least erry 6wks ) we will have to revisit the wat-do
mp_en_viaje: but my reasoning is (and was, trhoughout), "well, let's see then"
asciilifeform: the whole q reduces to gossipd, as mp_en_viaje pointed out already. atm we're attempting to hand-crank gossipd.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-10 11:27:26 asciilifeform: diana_coman: atm i'm somewhat curious whether the logotron is even reproducible
asciilifeform: arguably -- unstable in the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927225 sense .
asciilifeform: it aint unstable in the 'falls down like win95' sense tho.
mp_en_viaje: your fleet of flasks though, that's unstable, and will likely blow up in future imo, but that's another time.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not married to a particular set of junkyard wrecks out of what people to make loggers. but the solution has to be reasonably automatic, or e.g. asciilifeform for the rest of his days will be doing nuffin but munging db, and it ~still~ won't be satisfactorily correct
asciilifeform: but as it is, we have 'memory leak' for operator time -- enemy can trivially occupy 100% of l1 hands for arbitrary time w/ the work of spoon-feeding logs
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, then we be sad. what can we do ? http://trilema.com/2015/a-lunatic-with-a-bloodied-axe-could-be-ringing-at-your-door/ !!!
mp_en_viaje: and not ~merely~ multiple as nude existence. nude as reflective process, people keeping track of them.
asciilifeform: we dun have'em yet tho. and if tonight fleanode 'storm' and 9,000,000 splits, then wat.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, but hard to like-phf when actually communicating things, on one hand. and on the other, hopefully multiple of these.
mp_en_viaje: which is why "logging monopoly" was listed with the "sadness" in the possible outcomes list.
asciilifeform: i'd like to avoid the situation where ' asciilifeform fixed on best-effort basis, and 1 time breaks leg' and then like phf.
mp_en_viaje: in my mind, the process works through -- everyone, mp included, has to make ~a judgement~, their own judgement, at any given point, re the logs.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to make argument 'eh i have drinking to do , rather than sync logs'. but if it takes fleanode 100msec to make a split, and asciilifeform -- 5min to fix it, this is not tenable to maintain promise of 'ultimate log'
mp_en_viaje: the costs to defend / benefits to attack mount exponentially, it is not a stable design.
mp_en_viaje: this is what precipitated the aug 2 darkness.
mp_en_viaje: and in month 4 or so of this traveling, where in other words mp was relying on other people to establish for him what is log, mp threw up because could not obtain a copy he could trust to scream at mod6 on good basis rather than on weak basis.
mp_en_viaje: for long time mp was always-on, ran private multiple redundant loggers, etc. then mp went traveling, explicitly.
asciilifeform: afaik the only extant sys which solved w/out 'rack in throne' is bitcoin.
mp_en_viaje: this being not theoretical wank but actual lived history.
asciilifeform: ideally 'canonical' log imho would live in the rack under mp_en_viaje's throne. is how historically this sorta thing worx
asciilifeform: and billymg on other.
asciilifeform: the other side of this, is q of 'what is canonical log' . i.e. is it mp_en_viaje's terminal (runs for 3-4 hrs / d ? and where did not even notice index off, asciilifeform had to notice and ring alarm ) ? asciilifeform's term ? (runs 24/7, but down for maybe 10min / yr ) ? or dulap 's ?
asciilifeform: (and in the end still resulting in divergent text b/w loggers, as pointed out upstack)
asciilifeform: erry single incident of 'fleanode weather' can create , within <1sec, a split that -- with hands -- will take 10min (of practiced hand) to fix
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re the log indices, there's a deeper q, that i'd like to lay out and ask mp_en_viaje to actually take halfhr+ to think about, with brain in full throttle, before answering, cuz it is very easy to spec this in such a way that asciilifeform's (or anyone's) pair of hands will not in fact be long enuff or fast enuff to handle
mp_en_viaje: if i really manage to make the damn thing fit in a deck fo cards ima celebrate.
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928655 << Pet toys some of the few actual "durable" consumer goods on account of inability of princess in her own mind's inability to tell her dog to be gentle with the toys
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i considered also to put 'delta' integer column in the db, specifically for this.
asciilifeform: ( and is why i baked the 'raw export' knob, ideally this is to be semi-automated , i.e. logger operators oughta be able to look, compare to e.g. own local log, and resync if agree )
asciilifeform: and (contrary to what some may thing) asciilifeform is not awake 24/7 at console to turn the crank immediately
asciilifeform: this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode
mp_en_viaje: i dunno that they're synced
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm still waiting to hear from e.g. ben_vulpes re what he did when bot fell down, to sync the indices with phf's
mp_en_viaje: ideally this is the last one of such little malfeasant bitchfailures, where logger goes on working but not right
asciilifeform: aite then will fix exactly like that.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'fix the refs' as in, modify stored lines ?
asciilifeform: these are complete other than the uniturd-containing emissions by lobbesbot. but result is that the numeration has diverged. ( we already discussed q of whether such divergence is 100% preventable in light of fleanode, tho , but inconclusively )
mp_en_viaje: there's no in between. logger must reflect channel. that's what it does.
asciilifeform: ( they 'broke eater' in the sense that lobbesbot's emission was not logged; bot did not fall down and lose other lines , note. )
asciilifeform: bot ate 100% of phf's log in testing phase w/out losing lines. but lobbes in fact discovered uniturds that break py's eater. i'ma implement the fix described by phf , but the q will remain re what, if anyffin, to do re the in-between.
mp_en_viaje: well you're supposed to put the missing lines in, neh ?
asciilifeform: btw dunno if anyone other than asciilifeform noticed, but on acct of the uniturd sadness, we already have diverging line indices between the various loggers.
snsabot: Logged on 2016-06-19 23:21:04 mircea_popescu: I myself used a Hole Hawg to drill many holes through studs, which it did as a blender chops cabbage. I also used it to cut a few six-inch-diameter holes through an old lath-and-plaster ceiling. I chucked in a new hole saw, went up to the second story, reached down between the newly installed floor joists, and began to cut through the first-floor ceiling below. Where my homeowner's drill had labored and whined to spin the hu
asciilifeform: read this 20y ago. and then 1 day found shop where ~actual~ industrial tooling sold. no flashing neons, in fact is unmarked hole in abandoned-looking warehouse, entirely disappears when the place is closed and the burglar grille is down. and open only 2d/wk. there -- can buy, sans plastic, actual e.g. pneumatic hammers etc.
asciilifeform: there was a 1990s piece re how chumps walk into ameri-'hardware store' and buy 'contractor-grade!111' plasti-tools that fall apart after 5 uses
mp_en_viaje: some things, such as machined steel buttplugs, yes. some other things, holy hell no, shitty handcuffs with plastifur hotglued on sorta-kinda ?!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 12:08:00 asciilifeform: and in short order you get the lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'
mp_en_viaje: re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928620 specifically : the fucking retards ACTUALLY do this, buy cheap shitty plastirope, cut it to ridiculous length, sell it as "kinky rope" in colored cardboard
billymg: the delusion of infrastructure one