#trilema | 2019-08-29

mircea_popescu: ooo megalog.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931721 << well, or maybe some of the rotakus in attendance take pity on the inquisitve minds wanting to know and trasnlate some

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 19:59:18 lobbes: incidentally, it may be time I join the rotaku club. Good % of Trilema that I can't even begin to read

mircea_popescu: (i'm pretty sure they would by specific request)

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how that goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education,

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 19:55:35 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 << Thank you. I was thinking this was the way to go as most of the folx giving me the best advice at those meetings (and online for that matter) were, in fact, older subbie girls near their 50s, followed by the 'old guard' owners.

mircea_popescu: meaning from seeking power to seeking potential (the reagent / driver is the marginal disutility of money, rather than simple sclerosis, to be clear).

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:01:43 mp_en_viaje: 2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down.

mircea_popescu: so in practical, male, power-constructed terms, however you wish to call this : if you fail to make good because you spent all your resources hailing twennysomethings, that's a failure of education (ie, blame the parents, shoulda told you better), but if you fail to make it because couldn't find support in the old guard, well, that's the plain failure to thrive (blame self).

mircea_popescu: (and, for completeness, i find the misrepresentation thereof as "ethical feeling" as displayed in ustarded tradition from carnegie to buffett ~particularly~ galling. it is EXACTLY iliterate huswife hearing on the radio them paris folk have dat aifl towers and going about her courtyard to identify "what could be that them aifl tower in here". cuz everything has one, right, she knows, like when she was a little girl, those u

mircea_popescu: gly bumps on her chest are her boobs! like she's seen in the hotter older girls with real boobage.

mircea_popescu: so then she picks the garbage pile the rooster sits on, calls it aifl tower and tells all her ingroup. cuz right, it makes sense, rooster ? gaelic cock ? it's even kinda shaped similarily! then through the "beauty" of the internet her stupid fucking son is going to pester dictionary writers to "be inclusive" and treat the eiffel tower ~AS A CLASS~ rather than as an item, and discuss "other examples" in the first stage, the

mircea_popescu: n "find allies" and "break down the priviledge"... the intellectual socioeconomy of ustarded morons is quite well understood by now.)

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931730 << ustards very much ottoman/manchuko sorta "monkey accidentally came on top of man, drives decay" sorta "invader". fundamentally sterile inferior foreigner kinda occupation.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 20:17:11 asciilifeform: interestingly, the americans, who colonized and subjugated jp, to this day produced ~0 usable lit re the lang. ~all of asciilifeform's working materials -- from su.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 20:32:28 lobbes: perhaps starting with kanji not a bad idea

mircea_popescu: but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success)

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931765 << let's not js anymoar, experince shows it's never the right answer

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 21:18:34 trinque: willing to use a minimal amount of JS?

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931769 << but if you redirect both you end up with endless redirect, and if you only redirect one either the server doesn't know what link is sought or the client doesn't scroll to the desired position.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 21:20:29 trinque: heh, I can go hankier. you could instead have a server-side rewrite rule that 301 redirects from / to #

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931804 <<->> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931386

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 21:35:52 asciilifeform: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and see what he thinks before changing proggy. and whoknows, maybe we both missed sumthing.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-27 11:18:24 mircea_popescu: let this sit for a little we think more of it.

mircea_popescu: dun have to be solved today, we'll live for quite a while as it stands.

mircea_popescu: trinque, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931280 ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 17:24:16 mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.5 12tGxcb82jAgCCpCga4yoGtAvZkgst3jrk

mircea_popescu: apparently the prev one also

trinque: various "block explorers" show that one as shipped. afaik all have.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931856 << aint catastrophically burning, troo; but it does block import of pre-'dragon' log until fixed (and, current log links may in fact slowly break as machine clock drifts )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:37:54 mircea_popescu: dun have to be solved today, we'll live for quite a while as it stands.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931848 << this character mentioned 4 or 5 times recently... but does it have a name ? ( i admit, when 1st saw picture, assumed it was a young photo-shy hanbot )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:19:07 mircea_popescu: but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success)

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931846 << ameritards wrote books where all examples given in translit ! moar or less guaranteeing that whoever studies from these, can only parrot -- and poorly, the phonemes dun correspond to the eng ones ( tho funnily enuff they mostly exist in ru )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:18:37 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931861 << ought add, it will also create strong headache when the other bots stand up. none of the links will be guaranteed portable b/w bots , even if pains are taken to sync clocks. they drift.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 09:54:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931856 << aint catastrophically burning, troo; but it does block import of pre-'dragon' log until fixed (and, current log links may in fact slowly break as machine clock drifts )

asciilifeform: !q uptime

snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 13d 1h 44m

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: meanwhile i found a fitting GB switch. 1u plant will thereby house 15 rk .

asciilifeform: ( 1 hole is taken up by the exit cable )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma still get 16 rk, 1 will be spare.

asciilifeform: annoyingly , they all run on 12v, so can't use single-output 5v high current thing like i was initially planning, for the entire thing

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Very good news

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: any news on your front ? ( in particular, found reasonably-priced castle for mp ? )

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm working on organizing a break down of the situation. It's a very map-heavy exercise

asciilifeform: i can picture.

asciilifeform: meanwhile, asciilifeform realized that can use standard 1u atx ps, w/ 'breakout board' , to get the req'd 20A 5v + 1A 12v.

BingoBoingo: In local news, don't skimp on the quicklime https://www.sudestada.com.uy/articleId__1a7440e0-0947-439f-9437-327a3cb95b6e/10893/Detalle-de-Noticia

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: meanwhile rk (16) + heat sinks bought. 1st major chunk of the new crate. 670 ($) . ( still need cabling, ps , the ssd's, and naturally to assemble. )

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma weld the support nuts to the pedestal, this time, nomoar fiddlings in hotel room.

BingoBoingo: AHA, tyvm

asciilifeform: will post photo 'porn' when assembled, for aficionados.

asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?

lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/08/magistrate-judge-rules-of-federal-procedure-common-law-and-hoaxtoshi-collide-in-absolutley-schizophrenic-ruling/ << Qntra -- Magistrate Judge, Rules Of Federal Procedure, Common Law, And Hoaxtoshi Collide In Absolutley Schizophrenic Ruling

diana_coman: asciilifeform: in your logbot readme: shouldn't it be create database nsalog; instead of createdb? at least my postgres chokes on createdb under psql

lobbes: diana_coman: I had same observation: see >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929471

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 18:09:22 trinque: two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931835 << that was an educational footnote,ty. Also a good reminder that I am still in 'dirt' status, and to not let any of the cannibals out there try and lead me back into pretense

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 03:07:52 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how that goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education,

lobbes: "This "boy meets girl, they adultify each other" model is pure halucinatoria, the very substance of delirium and psychosis. It does not exist, nor ever has existed, nor ever will exist in reality." << sheesh, I've seen that model before

lobbes: I did reach back out to one of the helpful 50 yo subs I talked to though; she actually suggested meeting for coffee sometime, to which I said I'd love to. Hopefully will prove to be a pleasant and educational meeting

lobbes: In other news, I'm emerging a LAMP stack on my new server. Once complete I'll start futzing with getting the logotron stood up

lobbes is determined to beat diana_coman to getting the 2nd logger online

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931889 << diana_coman this is so, i found recently when making mirror . feel free to submit a patch to amend the readme, otherwise it'll go in my next one.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 16:29:20 diana_coman: asciilifeform: in your logbot readme: shouldn't it be create database nsalog; instead of createdb? at least my postgres chokes on createdb under psql

asciilifeform: diana_coman: also imho it'd be neat if you wrote about how built the mirror, nitpicks, etc. for n00bz. ( i did not have time to write a pedantic cookbook, and as you can see even the readme had mistakes )

asciilifeform: ^ or lobbes , if lobbes gets to finish line 1st

asciilifeform: both lobbes and diana_coman , lemme know when yer ready to sync, i'ma manually refresh the db dump

asciilifeform: ( normally it goes at 0hrs nyc time )

diana_coman: asciilifeform, lobbes fwiw I'm having additional fun due to older versions of postgresql (and last time I used any postgresql was > 12 years ago + never digged it all that much, ffs)

asciilifeform: diana_coman: oughta work with 9 and 10, not tried others

lobbes used 9.4 on testbed

lobbes: haven't tried on any other versions yet

diana_coman: asciilifeform: myeah, 8 here; and no "create extension" so had to change the scripts to load the thing

asciilifeform: the only even vaguely version-sensitive knob is the search index

diana_coman: aha, precisely

diana_coman: create extension was introduced in 9; so earlier versions will puke there.

diana_coman: anyways, back to twisting its arms.

lobbes: good luck

asciilifeform: afaik trigraphic index dun exist pre-9 -- but could be wrong

diana_coman: asciilifeform: the extension pg_trgm thingies does exist; it's the loading that is different

asciilifeform: a.

asciilifeform considers 'make things go with oldest/smallest possib. spittoon' a Right Thing in general case

asciilifeform: i simply used the item that was known to work solidly w/ phuctor, when wrote the logger, was all.

asciilifeform meanwhile puzzles over where the fuck weldable m3 nuts are to be had

lobbes: man, while it was a learning curve at first, I'm loving Gentoo now. Making my x86 system on this server to work like my x86 cuntoo testbed is as simple as just copying over my USE flags and package masks

lobbes: well maybe not THAT simple. But it is nice to be able to look in my masks and remember "oh yeah, I gotta remember to pick PYTHON target = 2.7" for e.g.

asciilifeform: lobbes: yours is a traditional gentoo? or a trinqueian cuntoo ?

asciilifeform: cuz my trad gentoo boxen are all in condition where portage is no longer usable

snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )

lobbes: asciilifeform: my testbed box is a trinqueian cuntoo (see: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/)

asciilifeform: a!

lobbes: but server is a traditional gentoo

asciilifeform: these will sorta work (if you make absolutely sure not to emerge --sync, EVER) ~until~ you find that some package is no longer alive on the (quite wilted) mirrors

diana_coman: ahahaha, python 2.6 -> barf http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZzZjn/?raw=true

asciilifeform: then -- yer gentoo has turned into equiv. of hand-sewn buildroot linux, where sure you can install things, but nao gotta manually tar ... ./configure && make && make install etc

asciilifeform: diana_coman: 2.6 has diff print() syntax from 2.7

diana_coman: if it's only that...

asciilifeform: afaik only

diana_coman: that flask thing gives me the hives

asciilifeform: diana_coman: where didja get a box with 2.6 even

asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'flask' is the http shitting lib. i've used same 1 since 2013 (phuctor)

diana_coman: centos 6; because gentoo problem as you just described + the poor moldavian guys anyway pretty much @kukuruz

asciilifeform: all of asciilifeform's published pythonisms are tested under 2.7. ( some ~may~ work on older; generally none will ever work on 3+ )

asciilifeform: ( there's quite a few, turns out; e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-12#1626258 . all 2.7 )

snsabot: Logged on 2017-03-12 14:40:14 Framedragger: asciilifeform: OT and just grammar nitpicking, but in http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sage_pill.py line 22, s/Could connect/Could not connect/

asciilifeform: to make life even more 'interesting', there aint a magical version that can pick and 'will work on all of'em' . 2.6isms break on 2.7 just same.

diana_coman: ah, yes, I'm sure 2.6ism would break 2.7, it's more this "fun" of code reuse; and I can ofc install python 2.7 on top; I seriously wonder though what's really the fastest route; because also, above it doesn't even seem to be print, it barfs when importing flask, a few layers deep in werkzeug and whatever

asciilifeform: no one yet asked how asciilifeform ended up on 2.7. answr: it's where gentoo stopped when died and i put it in waxworks.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you decide to fiddle with the proggy so it goes on 2.6, prolly can be done ; but keep in mind that i will not be able to run yours anywhere, there's no 2.6 on any known gentoo of past decade or so.

asciilifeform: this 'joy' is what one gets from a lang w/out paper standard a la ada.

asciilifeform: ( tho even gnat deviates from the paper, in several already discovered cases, sadly )

diana_coman: well yes, I'd rather ditch python alltogether.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you (or anyone) rewrite the logger -- i'ma clap

asciilifeform: i made it 'low tech' to the point of people tearing out their hair from missing features, but result is that it is small enuff that could rewrite .

asciilifeform: ftr i was half-convinced that it won't even run outside of asciilifeform's test beds -- until lobbes replicated

diana_coman: asciilifeform: the main q is: in wtf exactly

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if i had a palatable answer -- would have written in ~that~, lol

asciilifeform wrote in py script 'not from a good life'(tm)

diana_coman: myeah; in case it's not clear - none of the above was a complaint re asciilifeform's work at all.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: rly it oughta be in tmsr-adalisp (tm)(r) but this apparently dun exist yet.

asciilifeform: ( recall thread, where 'simple script lang where can sockets etc' )

asciilifeform: when i 1st sat down to write it, thought 'ada', then realized that simply to make the necessary glue would take a year, and that's if did nuffin else.

asciilifeform: then thought 'cl', then noticed that will need 9000 unexplored (by asciilifeform) lib liquishits for pg, http, etc.; then 'fuck it, i'ma cut up phuctor and sew from its still-twitching living pieces'

asciilifeform: result was the item nao running.

diana_coman: asciilifeform: and I think it was the best option available, yes.

diana_coman: for clarity re python 2.6 it's quite clear that it's not worth it - all sorts of breakings in flask & co really.

asciilifeform: i considered even exotics but realized it aint happening in reasonable time frame (and fuck knows what would look like) if did so. so went like so.

diana_coman: to cite from flask's description, for full allergy-triggers: A micro-framework for Python based on Werkzeug, Jinja 2 and good intentions

asciilifeform: diana_coman: for 2.6 need whole set of vintage liquishits that went with that specific py

diana_coman: I think I got a boatload of the good intentions part.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'flask' , 'psycopg', etc. are erry bit as rubbish as the docs suggest. with the twist that the assemblage actually worx ( phuctor's been running, incl. under various abuses , for yrs , on same ) .

asciilifeform: if i had to pick it up all now for 1st time, dunno if could bring myself to -- it has absolutely atrocious feel to it (esp. given the 'modern' docs)

asciilifeform: and i'll be the 1st to burn it all when there's a realistic alternative.

asciilifeform: earlier thrd where mp popped the cover on these and fulled 3 buckets with barf

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 02:58:26 mp_en_viaje: Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing.

asciilifeform: iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon

diana_coman: myeah, I quietly barfed in my notes re flask before but this time it just spilled in here.

asciilifeform: saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot

asciilifeform: ( considering, it is in py , interpreted lang, and my pages are generated approx on par with speed of phf's , at the immediate shitting arse end (discounting pipe delay ) )

asciilifeform: worse, not even certain that it is possible to write a clean/light www shitter , considering what http , tcp , are like to begin with

asciilifeform: ( mp is fond of old php , but it suffers from 100% of same headaches , and in fact even slower , esp. if the job is even slightly moar complicated than wp ; he arrived at it same way i did at 'flask' -- picked up decade ago and 'it worx, i'ma pour cement on this' )

asciilifeform: imho the Right Thing for this problem domain would be a tmsr-baked script lang built from ground, like-this . but so far no one has the free hands.

asciilifeform: ( would also be Right Thing for e.g. bootstrapping gnat, and related battlefield )

asciilifeform: i demonstrated, in 'm', how to write nontrivial proggies w/out libc or any c glue whatsoever, or any compiler dependency whatsoever.

asciilifeform: nao all needs , is someone with hands.

asciilifeform: the sword -- is in the stone!111 nao who wants to pull.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: in re pythonisms -- for that matter i'm to ~this day~ ! using my orig v.py (w / phf's 'vdiff' , and your fixup patch.) also because never found in what to rewrite it.

asciilifeform: there's imho a ~huge~ chunk of problem domain that is begging for a simple, well-specified, ~frozen~ scripting lang.

asciilifeform: with implementation weighing a few dozen kB.

asciilifeform: (imho entirely doable, i emulated an entire fucking comp, with mmu, uart, clock, in <13kB proggy)

diana_coman: well, I have at least fully explored the 1-strand spittoon: psycopg2 on python 2.7 wants postgresql 9 or greater and so it goes.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: my test bed fwiw used pg 9.4.5 .

asciilifeform: ( on dulap, where deployed -- 10.3 )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: you'll want a front end thing for it to live under (prolly apache) also .

diana_coman: asciilifeform: apache so far is working, what can I say

diana_coman: maybe that's also the "wrong" version...

diana_coman: asciilifeform: what's the easiest coupling if they run on same machine anywya?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: if it runs, will run, all that's asked of it is to forward a tcp pipe to port x (whichever yer py is on)

diana_coman: ah, shall see; *if* the bot runs at all, that is.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i at one pt blamed that coupling for the slow, and measured (plain rev.proxy vs 'wsgi' (equiv of php's fastcgi) , found 0 diff

asciilifeform: diana_coman: bot is own program and doesn't have any deps (aside from py per se and psycopg)

diana_coman: aha, initially I though it required wsgi

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i never posted that variant, imho it is useless moving part

diana_coman: well, and postgres

asciilifeform: the log viewer represented in the vtree simply serves itself on given local port when it runs. which you can then fwd to wherever.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: naturally and postgres. i was speaking of the py glues.

asciilifeform: to be utterly pedantic : the log sys consists of 2 separate py proggies that share a db (normally expected on same box, but can in principle be elsewhere). bot.py and reader.py

asciilifeform: the former sits in irc and records lines, answers cmds, etc. ; the latter serves up the httpized logism.

asciilifeform: it is in fact possib. to use 1 w/out the other ( e.g. asciilifeform's adhoc mirrors have only reader.py ; one could sit a bot using solely bot.py and then write yer own viewer at leisure ; and so on )

asciilifeform: the only knob in bot that actually gives a shit re the reader is the search knob ( see where it expects to find the # of results ) .

asciilifeform: if running bot w/out a public www viewer, it prolly has no business answering commands in chan anyway

asciilifeform bbl:meat

diana_coman: asciilifeform: mind giving the exact versions for flask, werkzeug and whatever other shit is used in there?

diana_coman: I have python 2.7.16 flask 1.1.1 and werkzeug 0.15.5 from what I see and the reader.py fails complaining that there is no flask.ext.cache , which seems to be again some version-shenanigans

diana_coman: postgresql is 9.6

diana_coman: the full list of stuff pulled in by flask seems to be: flask Werkzeug itsdangerous Jinja2 MarkupSafe

asciilifeform: diana_coman: on testbed , print flask.__version__ >> 0.10.1 ; python --version >> 2.7.5 ;

asciilifeform: the cache thing is unused, as lobbes pointed out 2wks ago, you can safely comment it out

asciilifeform: ( this will go into next patch )

diana_coman: asciilifeform: thanks; and yes, the .ext.cache trouble seems to be re v 0. or 1., ugh

asciilifeform: print werkzeug.__version__ >> 0.9.4

asciilifeform: psycopg2's is 2.6.1

asciilifeform: i think that covers all the crapolade

diana_coman: well, by now it seems to me that either ALL match, or otherwise headache; and I suspect that at the next level it's simply either same repo/distro or won't match

asciilifeform: lobbes didja have similar horror when baking yours ?

diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though

asciilifeform: diana_coman i'm curious how you went about installing the libs on yours

asciilifeform: what does 'centos' have ? 'yum' ?

asciilifeform: or didja by hand

diana_coman: asciilifeform: yum, yes

diana_coman: but anyway by now my notes are a full novel

asciilifeform: gentoo has , in any given instance, fuckknowswhat, BUT at least reliably pulls down the particular necessary strand of the spittoon, typically

diana_coman: because of 2.7 etc

asciilifeform: i.e. a working x+y+z

asciilifeform: i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was

diana_coman: there is pip and some easy_install

asciilifeform: this is pretty much the last thing i'd be recommending to people to do, save for the fact that i shat out a log sys in it, lol

diana_coman: as usual, there's no lack of "tools", lolz; only none does anything other than eating up more time, ofc.

asciilifeform: verily

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i vaguely suspect that this is the thing that discouraged past folx who made loggers, from genesising. 'dafuq is the point, likely no one can even replicate this'

asciilifeform: even when i was sewing 'pehbot' , out of ben & trinque's cl logbot, found that it took substantial effort to get the req'd cl libs onto the box

asciilifeform: ( and that's a box already, years ago, set up for clism... )

diana_coman: asciilifeform: so then what, I'm still better off writing the bot in C or what?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma jump with a parachute made of garbage bags before writing www-facing proggy in c, but maybe that's just me..

diana_coman: well yes but it's starting to sound even appealing here, lolz

asciilifeform: well if you feel like sweating out 3 kilometres of malloc() and realloc()'s and errno()'s -- who am i to say

diana_coman: given this, I seriously wonder if it can be much worse to make it in ada on top of all the gnat-mess including unbounded strings and gnat.sockets and everything else; at least the full gnat so far *is* more transferable

asciilifeform: diana_coman: you'd need to bake pg glue for ada, there aint any

asciilifeform: ( and it'd in turn have to use pg's c ffi, afaik there's no other usable glue for it at all )

asciilifeform: i.e. nulltermed strings & all.

asciilifeform: ( and then face the q : ~which~ pg !? )

diana_coman: I'll go and sleep.

asciilifeform: and then you might find, as i did, that gnat.sockets mysteriously barfs in certain cases

asciilifeform: goodnight diana_coman

asciilifeform: thinking about it, i'm not terribly surprised that centos 6 dun suck down a working set of shitlibs: loox like it was released in jul 2011 .

asciilifeform: imho instead of rewriting logger for 11th time out of matchsticks and hot glue, would be better to make a proper scripting lang...

asciilifeform: 1 that knows how to pg, socketize, etc.

asciilifeform: atm i have a distinct unpleasant feeling that the ratchet presently does not ratchet very well.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 04:51:18 mircea_popescu: it's this device that transforms inca (circular motion) into republic (linear motion) by the principle of only permitting rotary motion in one direction, thereby using the inca mass against itself.

BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in lulzy spam disclosures: US Office of Foreign Asset Control http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GLllJ/?raw=true

asciilifeform: lol nigerian office of yandex spam

BingoBoingo: 4 real, Also Argentina is now officially in "selective default" after the latest round of Derpities announced trying to keep hell from breaking loose before October 27th.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the chinese can show up with the slave galleons and start loadin' whenever they feel like. ( and it is a deep enigma, far above asciilifeform's paygrade, to explain wtf they're waiting for )

asciilifeform: their 'wait for his corpse to float by'(tm) school of thought, is more impenetrable imho than their hieroglyphs.

BingoBoingo: Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population.

BingoBoingo: I suspect Mandarin is not a language in the mundane sense.

asciilifeform: i suspect (based solely on 'rectal oracle') that argentina to chinese plays same role as 'junk mortgage' house plays to usg ministry of handout-payola .

asciilifeform: i.e. somehow is worth to'em to continue pretense that owning it is worth sumthing.

asciilifeform: ( or, alternative rewrite of same equation, that the resourced to clean up the gangrenous pus from puncturing the bezzle, aint available )

asciilifeform: *resources

asciilifeform: so will go unpunctured until reaches whatever physical limit exists for it.

asciilifeform: argentina aint even peculiar in this respect, exactly same q can be asked re usa & the rest of reich

asciilifeform: they already went through... 2 ? 3 ? 'default' 'refinance' 'rinse & repeat' cycles ?

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats.

asciilifeform: not required hypothesis -- lafondistani monkey also shoots at usg bureaucrat if happens to get in range

BingoBoingo: I don't see a situation where the Chicoms step in to save Argentina. Argentina isn't rich in natural resources like Vzla.

asciilifeform: dun keep the latter from printing moneys to hand to the former

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my suspicion is that it (like in fact usa) is a 'paper resource'

asciilifeform: 'worth' strictly on acct of having money flushed into it

asciilifeform: ( and then idjits noticing 'someone paid for this! it must be worth sumthing' )

asciilifeform: mp had a likbez where used example of recent pyramid 'groupon', where similar.

BingoBoingo: No one depends on the strength of Argentine paper holding to prop up anything. Even Uruguay has adopted a strict decoupling from Argentina so as to not sink with them.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not argentine paper, lol. chinese paper.

asciilifeform: they almost certainly have an internal bezzle that considers the sank moneys as 'asset' of some sort.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: picture if you had a herd of worm-ridden cows that produced 0 milk, and meat that no one would eat even in gulag. how to make any money from them ? one way is to keep feeding'em and 'financialize' them, borrow against'em from idiots, 'leverage', etc

BingoBoingo: The blackboard rate today hit 0.38/0.98 compra/venta. Part of this is intentional monetary policy re: "fuck Argentina", but there being less distance between zero and compra than compra and venta is a fairly new phenomenon.

asciilifeform: waitasec, so, what , BingoBoingo could walk in, buy 0.38, sell for 0.98 immediately, and come out with a wad of phree green ?

asciilifeform: or is this only for 'speshul' people ?

snsabot: Logged on 2017-06-08 13:09:01 a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.

asciilifeform: or do i misread the #s somehow

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The cambios buy per 0.38, sell for 0.98. Very infrequent the blackboard rate is used with Argentine pesos, usually cambios offer better rates on pesos Argentinos for all but trivial volumes.

asciilifeform: aa!

BingoBoingo: Other direction

asciilifeform: ook cuz otherwise wtf

BingoBoingo: The wide blackboard spread is because no one wants to sit on pesos argentinas

asciilifeform: if owner of argentina wants someone to buy it, could start whenever he wants by sending in the wood chippers and mulching the 'samba si, trabajo no' aboriginals 24/7 until leaves the 2% or what who were the reasonable auto mechanics etc .

asciilifeform: as it is, hot waste from chernobyl is actually moar marketable ( there are actual uses for e.g. co-60 )

BingoBoingo: Indeedd

BingoBoingo: Cobalt 60 has many uses.

asciilifeform: pretty expensive, too, interestingly -- i priced

BingoBoingo: A labor movement that wants the factories to leave has no use.

asciilifeform: i doubt ( and esp. after mp barfed ) that anyone would buy live argentines at any price point . it's like trying to sell sewer rats. normally you gotta ~pay~ someone to trap & remove these.

asciilifeform: perhaps brazil will buy the place, for nuke waste dump.

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931886 << didn't, and I'm a little hesitant to continue on in that vein before making sure I know what the desirable product is.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 15:27:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?

lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 6 hours and 25 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?

BingoBoingo: Why would Brasil buy? Argentina doing what Argentina does is part of Brasil's sales pitch.

trinque: huh, that's sort of annying behavior.

asciilifeform: trinque: well i'm about to sew together a 15 unit arm64 cluster.

asciilifeform: trinque: hm ?

trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead

trinque: asciilifeform: I mean whether cuntoo is desirable as is.

asciilifeform: trinque: is there a substantial missing piece i'm unaware of ?

trinque: trying to learn in my old age to take half a smell of the market before hauling off and building something

asciilifeform: afaik it's entirely workable atm

asciilifeform: and certainly in comparison to asciilifeform's fossilized gentoo currently in use

trinque: kk

trinque: possible avenue of porting is to stand up an amd64 cuntoo, and then use crossdev to rebuild all ebuilds at a specified root dir

trinque: looking for what the env variable is

asciilifeform: CFLAGS="-march=aarch64" i expect

trinque: nah, the one where you can tell portage to blast its built-proggie output to a new root

trinque: I've used this to great benefit to blap down an embedded firmware

asciilifeform only ever built embeddeds (e.g. for 'm', for 'pogo', etc) via 'buildroot', never made a gentoo for'em

asciilifeform: i was orig. planning to attempt a cuntoo for 'm' but then barfed

asciilifeform: ( it, despite month+ of pure asm massage -- found to be incurably slow )

asciilifeform: is actually why new rk plant -- will be sold to folx using conventional www stack etc, traditional softs, even trinque's vpnism idea, and the like.

trinque: ah it's just ROOT

asciilifeform: trinque do you want a rk btw ? i have some spares here, can send you

trinque will pick up his own, but thanks very much!

asciilifeform: aite

asciilifeform: get'em while they're alive. last time for 6mo i was convinced it was outta print permanently

trinque: link to the exact model? and I'll stand up my crossdev stack for it

trinque: and document

asciilifeform: roc-rk3328-cc .

trinque: aye aye

asciilifeform: comes in 3 sizes (1G, 2G, 4G)

asciilifeform: no storages on pcb (is major reason why i picked it) , needs sd to boot from and then usb3 stick to mount root

asciilifeform: for thread-completeness, asciilifeform's fillings for this machine.

asciilifeform: a++ trinque , if you bake this, will be much appreciated .

trinque: cool, got a big'n and small otw, arrives tomorrow

asciilifeform: dun fughet the heat sink

asciilifeform: it runs rather hot when 'naked'

trinque: cool, got also

asciilifeform: the vendor's heat sink is pretty spartan, but worx, and snaps in with bare hands, convenient.

asciilifeform: trinque: ave1 even made a working gnat, but it doesn't know how to do preemtible threads.

asciilifeform: (apparently this was never yet achieved on arm64)

asciilifeform fwiw suspects that most ada proggies dun even use preemptible threads -- they spawn N threads and they run until the warhead detonates..

asciilifeform: e.g. ffa/peh dun use threads at all.

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932021 << indeed, testbed on trinquean cuntoo. Yeah, did not encounter same horrors (besides the need for commenting out the cache thing)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 20:52:37 diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though

lobbes: For clarity, on testbed I got the eater.py and the reader.py working fine. Was able to view loglines and search with no issue (on localhost only, didn't test port forwarding). Did *not* test the bot.py, however. For reference, my version info: Flask 0.12.2; psycopg2 2.7.4; Python 2.7.15

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932030 << on the testbed I got both flask and psycopg2 via portage

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 20:54:34 asciilifeform: i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931971 << not yet; I have a vintage php search for the classic #e logs, but that is all atm

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:32:30 asciilifeform: iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon

lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932106 << I agree this is probably the proper behavior. But it ain't changing anytime soon. The heathen coad lobbesbot runs on [i.e. it doesn't sit on the logbot tree like auctionbot] is slated to be discontinued just as soon as I get some more important things complete. Not sinking any more time trying to staple that dead horse

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:54:01 trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead

trinque: fair enough