#trilema | 2019-08-17

feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/irclog2html-genesis/ << lobbesblog -- irclog2html genesis

lobbes: ^^ and with that, I will turn my attention back to testing asciilifeform's logotron for importing the uniturds

lobbes: but that; tomorrow. Now I sleep.

asciilifeform: hey lobbes , why is there a MB of log for some rando heathen chan inside that genesis ??

lobbes: asciilifeform: those were included in the original tarball in the "tests" directory

lobbes: i.e. I preserved 'as-is/was'

lobbes: [not recommended for use; only for dissection]

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929222 << i honestly thought that was the steaming turd icon.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 12:24:53 asciilifeform: ♨ << loox like 'java log' ?!! (what's it doing in unicoad? is there 'coca cola' logo also?! and if not -- wainot?? )

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929260 << you hafta register a new name to de-ssl or what's the idea ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 20:58:12 trinque: if we are content with that deedbot may come back under a different name (as if freenode is the canonical repository of anything) I'll remove the SSL cruft.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929279 << this is like "degrading" a chick from 5'4 to 5'31/2. anyone who's anyone had long tuned out anyways.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:23:12 BingoBoingo: Latest is that what was a disaster appears to have been normalized in argentine dialog while Fitch just downgraded then from B to CCC

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929307 << that's a sound principle, but in practice it comes down to what he says : when stuck interfacing, use their interfacers. same logic powers "use fs to comm to apache" as powers "use znc between your proggy and freenode" etc.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:32 trinque: mnah, if I'm doing anything at all with "IRC" in the mix, I'm doing as little as possible

mp_en_viaje: imo it's TRT.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929309 << this is going the oposite way of your stated principle neh ? www to implement a terminal in php via apache ? why not just use the existing terminal lol

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:54 trinque: seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929350 << no such rule at fleanode , afaik. i suspect q was 'wat-do when someone lifts bot's pw'.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 06:08:08 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929260 << you hafta register a new name to de-ssl or what's the idea ?

mp_en_viaje: well, the registration includes an email, so i guess reset the pw

asciilifeform wonders if trinque spat on the email thing and regged via e.g. 'mailinator'

mp_en_viaje: incidentally asciilifeform do you remember which trilema article has the herd of replicants drawing ?

bvt: mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/

mp_en_viaje: ty kindly!

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/no-platforms/ << Trilema -- No platforms!

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929348 << ftr that'd be 0x1f4a9 . doesn't seem to display on any linux i can find tho.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 06:04:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929222 << i honestly thought that was the steaming turd icon.

asciilifeform: iirc may have been introduced by crapple, which i suppose is fitting.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929364 << rereading this classic, had grim thought : consider the q mp_en_viaje posed at the end, 'Why is it, exactly, that the pilots didn't come home with a bunch of Iraqi slaves ?' :

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 09:06:27 bvt: mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/

asciilifeform: observe that even in the period that e.g. wehrmacht soldiers ~were~ coming home with slaves, luftwaffe -- nope

asciilifeform: and i suspect the reason is along the lines of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-26#1548766 .

snsabot: Logged on 2016-09-26 15:36:06 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 00:46 asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.

asciilifeform: and consequently that pilot (dun matter what personal courage, physical strength, etc) for so long as stays in the profession, is at the mercy of process much like what mp described re comp operators

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:13:51 mp_en_viaje: i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around.

asciilifeform: infantryman -- can go home with slaves, or even with 17 train cars fulla gold watches (gen. zhukov) . pilot goes home with -- shirt. and some memories.

asciilifeform: infantryman can take rifle and 'go off reservation', and, like the famous lt. onoda, grease it with fat of killed policemen for 4 decades. pilot -- not so much.

asciilifeform: in this light, the current reich's all-out investment in aviation (formerly -- of expensive-but-working, today, 'f35' style) actually makes sense.

asciilifeform: famously peron was overthrown with help of the exactly 2 little jets kurt tank was able to build in argentina. but doubt that today could happen similarly in reich, i suspect that the 'modern' machines will neither take off nor land w/out magic coad from inca satellite.

asciilifeform: ( all 'magic coads' aside -- flyers depend on massive and well-oiled supply chain; picked -- and not merely by bureaucrats, but by the very modern machine's similarity to programmable comp -- for 'colouring in the lines' ; prolly suffices. )

asciilifeform disclaims : not pilot. but arrived at this hypothesis not entirely from empty space.

asciilifeform: observe, even today's debased piloting, where the man is largely in the cockpit to enter numbers into keypad -- gives , from reich's pov, too much to the man. and hence the ongoing effort to deskill even this profession, mechanize the machine 100% , remove the meat.

asciilifeform: imho this hypothesis has explanatory power, in re usg's eagerness (against protest of all of the generals!) to scrap, e.g. the famous 'warthog'

asciilifeform: 'warthog' is old-style machine, and much closer to onoda's rifle than to 'f35', from this angle

asciilifeform: (i.e. fella inside ~could~ aim the cannon at the parliament and pull trigger and it ~would~ fire)

asciilifeform: i see no reason to suppose that usg's 'computerized' planes behave any diff. from e.g. cisco's routers. ( and the turks appear to agree , fwiw )

asciilifeform: this reduces arguably to mp_en_viaje's old piece where 'height of the towers'. yes, tower is tall, but... yer in a tower.

asciilifeform: in the (per usg's Official Troof, 'bloodless') bloody coup of '93 that demolished remnant of sovok, observe -- no airplanes are known to have taken part.

asciilifeform: only d00dz with ak.

asciilifeform: (and coupla tanks)

BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929352 << My surprise is that they continue to rate Argentina instead of shaving off a half inch at a time.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 06:11:02 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929279 << this is like "degrading" a chick from 5'4 to 5'31/2. anyone who's anyone had long tuned out anyways.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the reason why the fiat printers can't take argentina behind the shed and shoot it, no matter how obviously necessary, is that then would have to also take selves there also and shoot

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as mp pointed out on numerous occasions, there is no substantive diff b/w argentina and usa, britain, etc. rest of reich.

mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929372 << one of the disadvantages of the advantage, i guess.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 13:59:08 asciilifeform: observe that even in the period that e.g. wehrmacht soldiers ~were~ coming home with slaves, luftwaffe -- nope

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There doesn't seem to by anything that can stop Argentina from getting tossed on the manure pile to rot this time. They are approaching the fiat system stable state.

mp_en_viaje: this is baked into the question, though. "why didn't THE SYSTEM allocate the pilots slaves" ? you know the isis rural tards have complicated manual about "how to slaves", mostly dealing with the recipients' own homophobia and bizarre cuntfears. but those slaves aren't personally taken in war ; they're imam-distributed.

mp_en_viaje: so the q there stated extends/dovetails into ye olde "why didn't they make iraq 51st state"

mp_en_viaje: if they TRULY BELIEVE they got something, "democracy", blabla. if the pantsuit truly believe pantsuitism is +ev, then how come iraq isn't the 51st state ?

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: as far as i can tell, they ~tried~ to '51st state'. problem is that inca can't even fully digest 1 baltimore, merely 1 small (physically large, but not so habitated) town where folx willing to ~sometimes~ shoot, much less entire iraq.

mp_en_viaje: quite.

mp_en_viaje: which was kinda my point : for all the in-universe supposed glory, slave empire dun work in any practical sense.

mp_en_viaje: like cosmo kramer's kramerica industries : only qualified to supply FANTASY world business experience. not real world business experience.

asciilifeform: observe incidentally that germany's slaves also were 'imam-distributed' . hence my suspicion, that 'legionnaires personally take slaves' doesn't extend to when the primary weapons are industrially-crafted objects with gnarly maintenance cycles, only really extends to when gladius.

mp_en_viaje: (admittedly these considerations only interesting for me because actually got slave empire that works, otherwise it's a comparison of something with nothing)

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, not really the case -- in empire, ALSO imam-distributed.

mp_en_viaje: in republic, personal. and they had sired out of them some of the better republicans.

asciilifeform: empire of rome detectably 'wanted' to be something like today's reich, aha. didn't have the industrial process to make it stick tho.

mp_en_viaje: this is the female lifecycle : 1. menstruation ; 2.1. taken slave by republican | 2.2 taken slave by slave | 2.3. rots untaken. then 2.1 goes on to mother M.T. Tiro ; 2.2 goes on to mother a buncha redditards.

mp_en_viaje: or w/e, if the inventor of shorthand not good enough, claudius' mother was a whore named a caneis.

mp_en_viaje: i gotta find that "isis manual" now, was such a piece of lulzy idiocy...

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: pretty sure it was linked. and imho not entirely surprising -- these folx were still sitting in trees when europe was puzzling over jurisprudence . so naturally they will write 'buggy reimplementation of 80% of lis^H^H^H justinian et al' , just as they 'invent' caesar's cipher etc

BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929384 << Note that global state of the art in this area has fallen from Warthog to Super Tucano. Much as the SR-71 and concorde are gone, the Warthog has been out of print for a while. Maybe the Chicoms make a flying tank at some point, but the art has fallen from flying tank to flying toyota Hilux

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 14:17:38 asciilifeform: imho this hypothesis has explanatory power, in re usg's eagerness (against protest of all of the generals!) to scrap, e.g. the famous 'warthog'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik chinese to this day fly 100% license-built ru machines (with minor cosmetic modifications)

mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the most striking aspect was just how unfamiliar with women or womanhood they found themselves. it's like an agricultural manual that omits any discussion whatsoever of soil acidity or inclination, focuses greatly on the zodiac.

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They chicoms have at least one weird fighter that appears to not be clone.

mp_en_viaje: only possible conclusion is "these dudes never farmed"

asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: naturally. bedouins, neh.

mp_en_viaje: i expect, socialmedia tards, really.

mp_en_viaje: the weevs of over there, as it were.

asciilifeform: recall isis colonel who posted jpeg of his position, complete with coords, to arsebook.

asciilifeform: 'hey is that a 20 tonne gas-air bomb falling on our head?' 'aha. must be will of allah.'

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The US colonels do that too http://qntra.net/2018/07/security-personnel-continue-leaking-location-and-activity-information-through-fitness-apps/

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: rright, with the only diff being that, of yet, there is no one to drop the earned 20 tonnes on ~their~ head

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well why would anyone drop 20 tonnes on lone colonel jogging? Makes more sense to pick them off one by one.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cuz 'when all you have is hammer'

BingoBoingo: Hammers kill more UStards annually than rifles do...

asciilifeform: usg's war machine, such as it exists, is largely this box where general keys in coords and 'drop 20 tonnes this-here'

BingoBoingo: And using it like that is why the US is following Argentina to the manure pile. https://archive.is/A4VH3 Hammer works

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hey, hammer was entirely goodenuff for the franks.

asciilifeform: for that matter, observe, some of the most picturesque 'postals' were -- with sword. (picture, katana, in crowded subway.)

asciilifeform: fire -- even better than sword.

asciilifeform: this is why reich propaganda machine tirelessly repeats the line where 'postal, is what you do with rifle, let's fixate on rifle'

asciilifeform: anyffin to keep the 'feel like a trader'(tm) tards from waking up to fact that pressure washer + petrol easily mows down 1000+ , while e.g. kalash into crowd, lucky if 100.

asciilifeform: meanwhile : imho good pedagogic thrd in #o .

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 14:51:34 asciilifeform: diana_alt: fella seems to have profound talent for reading text w/out ~actually~ reading. (for instance, escaped noticing that primary diff. b/w a vpatch and a heathen patch, isn't that it is pgp signed (heathens had pgp-signed patches 20y ago) but that it doesn't fuzzy-merge.

lobbes: asciilifeform: could you point me to some threads/reading re: this 'fuzzy-merge' concept? V is the only version-control patch system I've ever used, so I'm having trouble comparing it to the 'anti-models' (I've never used shithub, for e.g.).

lobbes: I figure my own understanding could use some improvement as well

trinque: lobbes: never seen "hunk succeeded at offset X" ?

asciilifeform: ^

lobbes: trinque: nope

lobbes: or rather, that string does not ring bells

asciilifeform: lobbes: observe that vpatches carry hashes, and demand that the output of prev. patch , going back to genesis, has to specific value. i.e. prohibit 'fuzzy'

asciilifeform: lobbes: in traditional heathen patching, gnupatch will attempt to shoehorn a patch into place for so long as it does not entirely conflict with the existing text

trinque: i.e. matches the prev and suceeding lines in the diff

trinque: at w/e magical "fuzz" number of lines is permitted

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: lobbes: see also this old likbez.

lobbes: oh okay. I was not aware the others did not do this... yeah that shoehorning sounds... dumb

lobbes will also check out that likbez, ty

asciilifeform: lobbes: there had been ad-hoc attempts by heathens to add signatures to patches (e.g. linus's) but afaik all permitted 'fuzzy'.

lobbes: so in other words, the heathen patchers don't care if the prev hashes do not match?

asciilifeform: lobbes: they don't hash at all, typically

lobbes: wow, okay

lobbes: I see the problem there

asciilifeform: only ask that the 'begin' and 'end' strings match the given

asciilifeform: lobbes: observe that the hashes you see in vpatches , in the pre-keccak (i.e. pre- disposal of gnu diff ) are not generated by gnu diff

asciilifeform: gnu diff / patch don't know about hashes at all .

lobbes: yeah, the pre-keccak used the shell-based vdiff iirc right?

asciilifeform: lobbes: it looked like this .

snsabot: Logged on 2018-01-28 11:45:00 asciilifeform: diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(--- a|\+\+\+)/{cmd="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null ";s=cmd| getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} close(cmd); print $1 " " $2 " " o} !m { print $0 }'

lobbes: aha now that I recall using

lobbes: twas in ben_vulpes' original V guide

lobbes: ty trinque asciilifeform. This helped

asciilifeform: lobbes: over time there was series of small changes to that awk, to work around various congenital defects of gnupatch; ended up with phf et al writing entirely new replacement proggy, which is the current vdiff.

asciilifeform bbl:meat

lobbes: micro-nit, but I noticed the example syntax for creating a database in logotron README.txt is noted as 'createdb', but in most of the documentation I've checked it is 'CREATE DATABASE' (https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/sql-createdatabase.html)

trinque: two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command

lobbes: aa okay

lobbes has been stepping through 'manually' for the most part; ran all of the lines in 'nsalog_schem.sql' one-by-one from psql commandline

lobbes: about to read through eat_dump.py and do some testing

trinque: asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929288 << want me to cough up some more copy?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:33:39 asciilifeform: trinque's sample is a+++ imho. oughta go in.

asciilifeform: trinque: pleez. but for immediate eating by BingoBoingo , i'ma look slightly later

BingoBoingo: trinque: Go for it.

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/08/john-hopkins-professor-gets-out-after-sanctions-for-entering-protester-occupied-building-to-attempt-work/ << Qntra -- John Hopkins Professor Gets Out After Sanctions For Entering Protester Occupied Building To Attempt Work

asciilifeform: 'if the worst comes to the worst I can always go to China or Russia' << lol, wasn't aware these needed american profs

BingoBoingo: Well, he didn't specify what he'd be doing over there.

trinque: ccccccknjlkfvrebiblucidiednjubhftfjflfnjbddr

trinque: lolwut, that was a terminal window scroll

BingoBoingo: China needs white men for their domestic stock photo industry

asciilifeform: haa

asciilifeform: trinque: check for stuck pedals!11

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hey do you think you can get the good doktor povey to come & visit ?

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You want him to land in your castle?

asciilifeform: can go straight here, if mp dun object

BingoBoingo: I'll shoot him a note unless you want to invite him to meet up for lunch or something. Seems like he's still in your neighborhood.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho this patient oughta go straight to mp's operating room, if he'll have him

lobbes: In logotron testing news, (as probably expected) eat_dump.py still barfing on uniturd eating. Studying phf's algo to see if I can get it working

lobbes: yes! phf's algo worx again

lobbes: had to add two lines to eat_dump.py; going to try now with a larger test dataset

asciilifeform: lobbes: let it eat the #u archive, then run reader.py, take a look at the known barf lines from before. if it ate correctly, make again vpatch (from current leaf of tree) and i'ma sign, then eat on dulap.

asciilifeform: #e that is

asciilifeform: lobbes: put it in 'logconverters' subdir next to diana_coman's item .

lobbes: asciilifeform: sounds good. So far it ate 160k lines of #e archive. However, found a bug in my znc2tmsr code where if line payload was null, my thing did not output a ';' at the end

lobbes: offending line, for reference: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-25.log.html#t19:49:40

lobbes: will fix and retest

asciilifeform: lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there

asciilifeform: do the players use in-game chat nao , or wat

lobbes: asciilifeform: has been pretty quiet as of late. not sure why tbh. danielpbarron, Birdman, et al have been quiet as well, tho, and they were frequent players

lobbes: also Mocky has been silent for some time it seems

lobbes: though I figure once mp is done traveling and diana_coman gets her young hands club running there may be more development chat in #e

lobbes: re: upstack (to my surprise) loox like the bug on eating null payloads wasn't in my znc2tsmr code, but in fact in eat_dump.py. Barf for reference

lobbes: still, probably an easy fix

asciilifeform: lobbes: you're invited to submit patch for eater also.

asciilifeform will bbl:meat.

lobbes: excellent; fix worked all #e lines ate. Now to inspect and test reader.py

lobbes: and okay. I'll bundle the eater fixes and znc2tmsr into the vpatch

auctionbot: Buy order # 1054 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo

auctionbot: Buy order # 1055 has ENDED: 500 WFF, WU esta bien SOLD by lobbes for 51mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo