No Such lAbs
trilemaasciilifeformossasepiapizarroeuloraspyked
3h 33m6h 40m19h 56m6h 41m6h 41m
Pizarro



asciilifeform: there's defo a... market, for vpnism, just like there is a market for 'mail drops' to relay goods bought with stolen cc's, etc. just not clear that it's a market you'd want to be involved in.
asciilifeform: observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly.
asciilifeform: trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind.
trinque: you should build for from whom you wish to take money, not yourself
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930840 << this is interesting enuff to merit own answer. on 3Ghz opteron, and with bvt's asm , could perhaps get even 28 kbaud ! of rsa..
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:57:09 trinque: I'm not addressing whether he actually needs a VPN, but how hard is it to take p crypto and make a VPN?
asciilifeform: trinque: re 'build for from whom', i cannot possibly disagree. but extremely skeptical that vpnism ~can~ be supplied economically by honest (i.e. not subsidized by washington) vendor, even in principle.
trinque: current limiter is the lack of fat pipe, eh?
asciilifeform: most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers
asciilifeform: each of whom would be willing to pay perhaps even equiv of 20bux/mo. i.e. collectively not even 10% cost of that pipe ..
asciilifeform: this also touches so far strictly cost of pipe, and omits cost of disposal of the 1st 'genius' who starts serving 'pedo club' or spam emporium or whatever other attractive nuisance via his acct
asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled )
asciilifeform: i entirely wouldnt mind trying to serve that market; but suspect that it would need to be done from pyongyang, rather than montevideo.
asciilifeform: ( aand w/ errybody involved having already left 'the big zone'. )
trinque: this is possible. I'll think on it more.
trinque: going to turn in for now, night.
asciilifeform: nighty trinque
asciilifeform: ty for picking up the puzzler. fwiw i think erry day about it, but not made anyffin that could be termed breakthrough.
asciilifeform: also bbl,meat
diana_coman: !!up ave1_away
deedbot: ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes.
ave1_away: diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here
diana_coman: oh hey, nice! going to Ro too?
ave1_away: so yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-24#1930659, but I should be back next week
ave1_away: No, unfortunately not on this trip. Ukrainian part is big enogh for now
diana_coman: heh, big but also nearby :P
ave1_away: I'm thinking of going here by car next year, wich would make us a lot more flexible
ave1_away: Or see about renting something big, the way these orcs drive
diana_coman: ave1_away: taxis shouldn't be all that expensive either
ave1_away: My days this week will be very much; get up / shower, enjoy big breakfast, enjoy long walk in the mountains, swimming, nice meal from wood fire, get to bed and fall asleep immediately
ave1_away: even with all the walking, I'm fattening up nicely
diana_coman: sounds like a very restful break at least
ave1_away: taxis are not expensive at all, but I did not yet find one I would trust to drive me more than 100km
diana_coman: hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km
diana_coman: strictly on the face of it, you'd just move by 100km per taxi then, lol.
ave1_away: well, drive locally where they know their way vs drive further, 100km simply magical cutt-off in my brain
ave1_away: most taxis here, cars from early nighties, non working suspension, no belts etc.
ave1_away: Currenlty we've been using the train for long distance
diana_coman: heh, comes with nice meal from wood fire (and the smoke too, came instantly to mind )
ave1_away: yes, train definitely sovjet experience
ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt.
ave1_away: The build script will then be based on this genesis
diana_coman: sounds clear and a firm starting point to work from at least
diana_coman: !!up ave1_away
deedbot: ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes.
ave1_away: somehow, I was think that I should genesis the build script first
ave1_away: and then have diffs of patch files
diana_coman: ave1_away: well, the build script requires all sorts so it makes sense to have as genesis a complete starting point if possible
ave1_away: but then, while walking I thought, no, it needs to be the other way around
ave1_away: first genesis all the parts, next build scripts (if at all needed by then)
diana_coman: makes sense
ave1_away: well, breakfast ready, so bbl
diana_coman: enjoy!
diana_coman: !!up ave1_away
deedbot: ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930823 << this is the golden ticket here.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:45:07 trinque: moreover are there enough customers that care?
mircea_popescu: this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT.
mircea_popescu: re awstats : there's no rule you gotta run it on the machine i nquestion. awstats will process ~any~ log in most standard formats, can just have an awstats box.
mircea_popescu: all it wants is the hitlog.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:50:19 asciilifeform: atm bar is set scandalously low. pretty much anyone can format hdd (or subtler vandalism) of a shared linux box he has any form of acct on, with week or 2 of effort.
mircea_popescu: all they need to say is hi!
mircea_popescu: is rater on alf's side re vpn product notion ; though this may be borne of ignorance, i don't think i ever bought one.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:18:11 asciilifeform: most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers
mircea_popescu: (yes, believe it or not, i ran a "all films reviewed on trilema" server for like... a year. to see if anything interesting happens. major pipe and everything, came to high four figures all told, mostly hardware, soem sweat to get it up.
mircea_popescu: NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.)
mircea_popescu: it was, i guess, sorta pleasant to see the thing keep the pipe full at all times, 100s of conns, if you do the math that's 4232690270208000 bytes' worth of good films i contributed to the ethers.
mircea_popescu: chalked it up against his mitzvah account an' moved on.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930856 << yes. the empire of stupid may be ~ultimately~ stupid, but up to there it's constructively stupid, can't just wade in head on
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930866 << you wanna have a cuppa coffee in timisoara sometime this coming week ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 02:45:24 ave1_away: diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here
mircea_popescu: oh. keks, we missed each other in ukrlands. how didja like kiev ?
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930878 << well, you get out of urbanity ? im guessing.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 03:01:02 diana_coman: hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 << sweet.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt.
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 <-- imho the right thing would be to eventually steal "everything". i'ma definitely do that for hunchentoot, tho I expect it'll take a while, given that I keep stumbling upon binaries and utfisms in these coads
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-27 12:51:02 mp_en_viaje: as far as your practical example : do not genesis parts ; include the 12 things in yoru genersis if they are needed.
mircea_popescu: aha
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930601 <-- the way I read mircea_popescu's comment re. blog was "if you're doing something interesting, then it's worth documenting". e.g. I know zilch about making red cents and would read if trinque found it worthwhile to write about his experience.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 09:53:42 trinque: on the blog front, I've got some weird brewing in response to the tlp seroquel annotation.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 00:28:22 trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent.
mircea_popescu: there's no specific rule that documentation must be limited to success.
mircea_popescu: documentation attaches ~to activity~.
mircea_popescu: that's the logic : if it's worth doing, it's worth doing human-ly, which is to say reviewably ; and since one can't claim entire classes of fundamentals aren't wroth doing, the absence of X or Y topic is significant of weakness.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer.
spyked: IMHO examination of failure also counts as "interesting"; mircea_popescu has plenty examples of that on trilema
mircea_popescu: yes, it is true, illo tempore, in ages long past, with expensive paper process, this was a useful approach. but today, it is counter-productive.
mircea_popescu: spyked, it's just the secular, momentuous change of detaching documentation from success and attaching it to activitry plain and simple that's the major significance of current it.
spyked: mircea_popescu, agreed. it's also what newton et al. used as a method and what academia could (I guess) have been if it hadn't devolved into the current shitshow.
mircea_popescu: just about.
mircea_popescu: but yes, historically, this was the longest held and dearest desire of all thinking men buried before we came :
mircea_popescu: that they might have ink and paper to write their things down
mircea_popescu: npow, we do.
mircea_popescu: it's the pinnacle of stupid to go "now that we do, we dun wanna".
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.09776 1KQ6jRPaa9RneTYMppJiMCsd1RqMeQM8H
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SoUGl/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: trinque, ^ plox
mircea_popescu: and lemme say i can't recommend namesilo enough. they turned out to be exactly the needed pill, but their bitcoin integration is actually so good, it interfaces with deedbot directly!
mircea_popescu: if every wanna-be corp out there actually followed their model, shit would actually work!
mircea_popescu: !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
mircea_popescu: !!ledger
mircea_popescu: !!received-invoices
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VeSsB/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!sent-invoices
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wr2Xq/?raw=true
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4ulEq/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
mircea_popescu: is the rating broken ?
trinque: nah, just swap it around
trinque: ack re: above
trinque: and I'm using a namesilo too per your recommendation, great service!
mircea_popescu: o ic
mircea_popescu: !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtGzK/?raw=true
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/08/localbitcoins-cracked-corn-and-i-dont-care/ << The Whet -- Localbitcoins cracked corn, and I don't care.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930902 << not always TRT (and in fact is how we ended up with x86 etc)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:31:06 mircea_popescu: this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930905 << 'format hdd' was merely example, did say 'or subtler vandalism'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:32:56 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930909 << even 1 leecher will 'fill' if you have no ration cap, lol. i was speaking of how many could even be served, at something like reasonable bw, by given pipe.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:36:13 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930912 << approx same as feeding pigeons in the park
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 07:37:57 mircea_popescu: NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930934 << sorta why asciilifeform elaborately documented an' genesised e.g. 'M'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 08:10:15 mircea_popescu: i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930942 << nao, shortage is instead time, in which to read, rather than ink.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 08:22:04 mircea_popescu: npow, we do.
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/25/the-new-old-vilnius-of-2019/ << Ossa Sepia -- The New Old Vilnius of 2019
mircea_popescu: "to automate and opiate" eh ? notbad.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, that it is ; which is how you end up with entire swathes of maculature (usg "scientific research" or "news media" as prime examples) rejected out of hand.
mircea_popescu: but this is a good thing!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wasn't even thinking of the maculature, but of e.g. fact that thus far only asciilifeform has signed the logger . shortage of time does not disappear once subtracted the maculature.
mircea_popescu: also tru
diana_coman: asciilifeform: while ^ is true, signatures seem to be more than "lack of time" though; afaik you read EuCrypt and actually satisfied yourself re MR implementation for instance but I don't recall any signatures from you - or did I just miss them?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930963 << dug through logs, tryin' to recall whothefuck was princessnell and how merited this 'honour', found ~0 -- must've been in 'era 1'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 11:26:07 mircea_popescu: !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
mircea_popescu: zzzing
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this aint even the most egregious example, there's trb patches ~by asciilifeform~ that have since been reground that iirc i haven't signed yet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, mentioned recently, now writes stultifying government copy re "immigrants" at la times.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: backlog on conveyor 1000km long
diana_coman: well yes, that is pretty much a given as soon as one starts doing useful stuff; but it still implies that signatures on *other people's* stuff are back of the queue while at the same time you see lack of signatures on your stuff as "nobody reads!"
diana_coman: to link it also to earlier trinque's thread "nobody reads"
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the tree trunk in asciilifeform's eye, the mote in other's, simply examples!111
mircea_popescu: lmao
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930818 << asciilifeform I don't have AWS installed anywhere, but we do have an access.log
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-24 23:38:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo when you wake up -- do we have site stats ?
mircea_popescu: fwiw awstats is iirc a perl script
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930847 << This is my understanding of the VPN thing. It's a market that demands Germany's subway tunnels of fiber because folks want to eat all the torrents they can through them.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:08:42 asciilifeform: trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind.
BingoBoingo: http://archive.is/wPG7p << 3.33 USD monthly paid annually from the USG folks that stick their ads everywhere that should know better
diana_coman: asciilifeform: lolz; but leaving the examples aside a bit, it seems to me that there is currently a lack of incentive to signing; basically people perceive it more as a liability (perhaps: I signed that and...what if I'm wrong/made a mistake??) than a gain;
diana_coman: other people's signatures are good and wanted but that's about as much as it seems to go so far.
mircea_popescu: but that's the fucking gain. "o look, i made a mistake".
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is that a negative ?
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I should have said: what if I get negrated for having signed it while it still contains a mistake/something I overlooked; basically a too-perfect-vision of it or how to put it
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: i dun think anyoen's getting negrated for being imperfect.
BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween.
mircea_popescu: so far the bar seems more in the vein of the exact opposite, "seeking to hide imperfection"
diana_coman: indeed it does
diana_coman: but it's a more difficult thing to catch as it were: as above, it's unclear if "no signature" is a sign of "seeking to hide imperfection" or of "no read" or wtf already
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931008 << for extra lulz, no e.g. ru in the list. ( and in fact whole list consists of a) nato reich b) quasi-satellites, e.g. brazil/india )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 13:20:14 BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween.
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform is solidly convinced that vpnism, aka 'hide my ip!1111' derpery, is a fundamentally braindamaged 'solution' to a fundamentally misconceived problem. (to which the 1 and only possible ~actual~ solution is a 100% gossipd-style net which treats the older ip net the way the latter treats ethernet & co.)
asciilifeform: all the pseudo-solutions reduce to variations on the tired old theme of 'tor'.
asciilifeform: btw, for n00bz : try some time and actually subscribe to a 'vpnism'. you'll quickly see 9000 spam/day offering other products for the irredeemably-gullible, same as if you order 'colloid silver' or similar snake oil. it's a conveniently-affixed leper's bell on obvious, broad-daylight scamola of erry kind, they trade lists of chumps
trinque: you're again describing products you would use
asciilifeform: see also re 'lists'.
snsabot: Logged on 2016-08-07 12:36:39 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 04:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one point i needed some conductive cloth (the kind with silver strands) for an experiment. to my great surprise, i discovered that there is a large manufacturer in usa, and they do brisk business with folks suffering from precisely the kind of phobia described in decimation's link.
trinque: there are not enough yous to fill a bowling hall
mircea_popescu: actually, it's not altogether clear there is another one.
asciilifeform: trinque: do you recall mircea_popescu's piece where 'offensively stupid poor' ?
asciilifeform: trinque: dun mistake asciilifeform's pos. for 'it is loathesome, ergo i want no part in selling'. rather, describing why the product only even appears to exist because is convenient bait for usg fish hooks in the 1st place. consider, how could supply a warez bandwidth for people who expect to pay 3 $ / mo ? i dun even know if possible to supply a length of rope with which they can hang selves, for 3 $ !
asciilifeform: trinque: i haven't even touched on the ethical q of whether one ought to help usg herd the illiterate 'weevs' into gasenwagen by peddling faux-'anonimities'. disputing rather the very idea that ~anyone~ actually turns a profit in 'vpnism' other than by cashing cheques directly from washington.
trinque: there's a thread right this moment on one of the heathen pits on which vpn should I use
trinque: as for the "checks from washington" I think you bring your soviet experience into these things without first going and looking
asciilifeform: trinque: maybe i'ma tard ? where in free world do i buy for 3 $ the GB/s bandwidth i can then sell to a weev for 3 $ ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the part you're missing is that the entire array is not made out of the one-worst-apple
trinque: I'm criticizing the approach.
trinque: not telling you where to source.
mircea_popescu: most people buying a vpn spent 5-10 bucks a month on 12 cents or so worth of usage
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rright, all except for the inevitable customer who opens 'pedo paradise' and incurs 12,000 $ worth of bill
trinque: I'm not trying to insult you, but this is exactly the "and anyway if I did" loop.
mircea_popescu: by this logic, can't have a cup of coffee. too risky.
mircea_popescu: COULD be poisoned
trinque: most likely is, because satan has control of all vessels of darkness
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had a piece where 'if malpractice suits cost 100,000 $ and chance is 0.1%, procedure aint ever costing anywhere close to 100 $ '
mircea_popescu: it's not clear to me what we're discussing here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the economics of selling vpnism relays
mircea_popescu: you're allowing yourself to be misdirected. just get the peopel looking for the item called "vpn" in empire universe on a rk or w/e the actual item is
trinque: ^
trinque: and control w/e fraction of the pipe they get to use
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is what i said in beginning of thrd, neh.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:05:14 asciilifeform: observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly.
mircea_popescu: just because they call it x in their fantasyworld has ~little bearing.
trinque: no, there is no market of you
trinque: this would make me sad if I felt like being sad, and I don't.
mircea_popescu: "a literate user" is nonsense in this context.
asciilifeform: trinque: what means 'of you' ? setting up packet relay on a leased box aint exactly high arcana
mircea_popescu: basically alf is willing to do anything whatsoever but sell.
trinque: you really need to hang out with some early 20s kids.
trinque: if it isn't a red dot they tap and that's it, they're not doing it. and you have nobody else to farm.
asciilifeform: trinque: could easily offer e.g. rk w/ preconfigged whatevers. but do you suppose these '20s' will pay 70 $ for 10kB/s , instead of lulazon's 3 $ / 100MB/s ?
mircea_popescu: in a word, yes.
asciilifeform: then wainot !
mircea_popescu: cuz you're nto talking to them
mircea_popescu: people, by and large, WILL DO WHAT YOU TELL TJHEM TO.
mircea_popescu: not "what you'd do in their place", not "what's good for them", "logical" or otherwise.
trinque: the "it'll all be pedo traffic" is the other end of the "my precious children, can't let 'em bike down the street"
mircea_popescu: people do what told to do.
trinque: there are statistically no pedos
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm not even convinced that 'pedos' in the contemplated sense , physically exist. it's simply the costume usg puts on when bulldozing isps.
mircea_popescu: it is quite unlikely anything like the usg socio-politico-legalo-wankist notion of "pedophile" exists in reality, yes.
mircea_popescu: then again black dudes regularly come out ~average wrt penis sizes, seems to do nothing for the meme.
asciilifeform: spammers, however, sadly do exist, and pose the obvious headache, the vendor that'll supply bw for ~arbitrary~ packets, no matter of what, does not afaik exist (outside of perhaps pyongyang]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled )
mircea_popescu: neveryoumind that part, jeez.
mircea_popescu: the last time anyone came even vaguely remotely close to anything like that, danielpbarron got his walking papers and the problem went away the same day.
asciilifeform: troo
mircea_popescu: why do you stubornly refuse to see, internalize and use the working process, notwithstanding it was both explained and displayed for your examination
mircea_popescu: and isntead sit there and wank idiotically about what is little mroe than "what i read in playboy letters".
trinque: if I can go briefly upstack, the proposal from me is to try things. vpn is just the first thing that came to mind.
mircea_popescu: in the EXTREMELY unlikely case you actually get a user you don't want, can just rate and move on.
trinque: if it's proved there's no market there, great, then you iterate moar
mircea_popescu: but this'd be a marked improvement over the stiuation where you got no user at all.
trinque: average derp has no idea what a box is, let alone what to do with it
trinque: but average derp can install a vpn client by clicking on something.
mircea_popescu: ONLY thing is, gotta talk to people. and tell them "here, is a thing, USE IT!".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for my education, work through example where vpn customer starts sending spam. how do i even determine ~which one it was~ w/out loudly and publicly breaking the promise to the customers which makes the idea of relay appealing to start with ?
mircea_popescu: sending it from where ? a rk box ?
asciilifeform: if each 1 gets own rk, it'd have to cost at least same as what rk presently priced.
mircea_popescu: nobody handles email by hand anymore, wtf, everyone is on google. if some douche wants you to install smtp on the shared server you just frown.
asciilifeform: i thought idea (of orig thrd) was re how to monetize a large monolithic multicpu box.
trinque: yeah, http(s) is the only thing anyone does
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would you put smtp on it ?!
trinque: the kids don't even torrent anymore
trinque: they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: this is kinda the bw-intensive use, and obv uy is no good for this
asciilifeform: trinque: and you think this can be done via a 200MB/s pipe in BingoBoingostan ??
mircea_popescu: "fake in-reich ip"
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: aka miami-for-rent
asciilifeform: it'd be ideal use for a 'uci' net, yes
trinque: asciilifeform: I want to have a discussion that takes longer than the enumeration of your preconceptions.
asciilifeform: in fact encountered several working cases of 'uci'-style nets, set up by various folx, for this
trinque: the lulzy thing is your contempt for the lulcow could be reoriented *around* the milking, instead of lactose-intolerance
mircea_popescu: huh ?
trinque: I dunno man, that metaphor went way off the rails
trinque: lol
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm 100% through enumerating, lol. will go into read mode for a spell, if trinque has specific 'get this obv. $item through yer thick head!' i will read.
trinque: he doesn't want to talk to the stinky poor
asciilifeform: gotta go into meat chore shortly
mircea_popescu: i don't think he wants to talk to anyone, in general.
trinque: trying the vpn thing is cheap, could be done easily while you still have coffers to try something else
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm actually all for offering it as a preconfigged variant of rk . my objections were 100% re the traditional variant, where all packets nominally become part of an indistinct outgoing soup via 1 shared ip.
trinque: I am not prescribing implementation.
trinque: maybe you, the operator of the service, do know what happens on it. maybe your covenant is to *not* share pipes with pedobearpig. it's all about muh datas and muh privacies, you see.
asciilifeform: me neither (and if anyone can think of a 3rd variant that i've omitted, plox to write in.)
mircea_popescu: just.talk.to.people.
mircea_popescu: holy hell...
trinque: on that subj, going to sit down and write for a bit
BingoBoingo: <trinque> they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e << More to the point they want to watch US HBO/Netflix/etc from wherever rather than the local mirrors on their own ISP's network

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