Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-07-20 | 2021-07-22 → ↓
vex: nevermind, keep sucking
vex: even mp prefered cardi b
vex: we were listening to grimes when musk was spending paypal
vex: next block is the ren bridge
vex: perhaps butererin has hid dick in my ear.
vex: if whaack wants to get on a big wave.. I've a supercharged kawasaki.
vex: kawasaki even
vex: 300horsepower
vex: precision attitude wtw
verisimilitude: I suppose the focus on connectionless protocols is in-part due to their typically being designed in a way which generally guarantees progress where possible, by not throwing away hard-won data on failure or interference and whatnot.
verisimilitude: I've had HTTP connections throw away nearly-finished downloads, without resumption, and that just doesn't compare to something like Bittorrent, which jealously guards data when it actually gets it.
punkman: lulzy item, guy told me their CEO is making everyone use it https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/access-management/what-is-browser-isolation/
punkman: (basically run remote browser in "cloud", stream video to local browser)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-05-07 15:25:48 billymg: asciilifeform: it's a browser in your browser, dawg
asciilifeform: punkman: hey, timesharing returned, wainot also dumb terminals..
asciilifeform: already 10+y ago there appeared the idiocy of 'www-based word processor' where ~every keystroke~ has to travel around the earth + through a shitware cluster at google etc.
asciilifeform: same people who use ~that~ -- will, i expect, use ~this~.
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.110s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.089s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.105s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.023s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=692033 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.294s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.266s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.256s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.282s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412062 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.598s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.470s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.386s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=692033 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: hello, raw_avocado . who might you be ?
raw_avocado: Just some random d00d that lurked around for a long time and now, after MP died decided to talk a look at things
raw_avocado: And read a lot of old articles
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: sadly fleanode breakage has destroyed the subjline for #a there. i presume you're aware of the log, though, based on above.
raw_avocado: Yes, i read a bit of them yesturday, and from what i got the log gets chats from 2 places(because of the freenode fiasco?)
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: most of the conv. now is on dulapnet. both it and the legacy fleanode #a are logged synchronously.
asciilifeform: correct.
raw_avocado: I am also syncing TRB as we speak, so will start asking dumb questions soon
asciilifeform: asciilifeform and snsabot are still here largely to receive visitors (such as raw_avocado) . the regular folx are all either on dulapnet or both similarly.
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: don't hesitate to ask, this is the right place.
raw_avocado: So what is this dulap net and how do i move there, then?
asciilifeform: ( more people will answer in realtime if you do the asking on dulapnet, but eventually erryone reads )
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: see thread plz
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-15 22:06:55 asciilifeform: 205.134.172.3:6667
billymg: has anyone here used one of the "layer 2" setups? either lightning or liquid?
asciilifeform: billymg: wassat?
billymg: asciilifeform: various schemes of "lock bitcoin" to exchange 1:1 for another token that can be moved around more quickly
billymg: but supposedly in a decentralized manner (as opposed to send to gox, send around to other gox friends)
asciilifeform: aa 'proof of burn'(tm) in earlier shitcoin parlance
asciilifeform: but -- presumably -- with 'unburn' ?
billymg: only temporary 'burn', can be converted back to btc proper
billymg: yep
dulapbot: (trilema) 2014-11-13 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
billymg: asciilifeform: it's what all of the prb crowd is promoting now for the "buying coffees with your phone" use case
thimbronion: billymg: I have played with liquid
billymg: thimbronion: how was it?
asciilifeform: 'Liquid’s trust model is based on a federation consisting of 15 hardware security modules (HSMs) attached to host servers (known as functionaries).'
asciilifeform: lol, it's a gox after all ?
asciilifeform: 'Like exchanges, Federation members are also known legal entities that face repercussions should they attempt malicious activity.' << didjaknow!
billymg: and lightening seems to be fully p2p, but relies on multisig addresses
raw_avocado: I am not able to connect to it, i am probably doing something wrong
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: what error do you get ?
asciilifeform: (and with what connecting?)
raw_avocado: I am using Limechat, as a client
thimbronion: billymg: worx. I do find it annoying that while anyone can peg in, only a certain nomenklatura can peg out. That said I would prefer using it to a gox for payments involving smaller amounts of coin.
billymg: raw_avocado: i happen to be using limechat as well, are you trying to connect directly to dulapnet or via ZNC?
raw_avocado: Directly.
billymg: raw_avocado: should be easy then, just make sure you include the fg baud rate as the password in the "Server Password" field
raw_avocado: fg baud rate?
billymg: fuckgoats, asciilifeform's TRNG product
billymg: search around his www and should find a link to the product description page including specs (unless asciilifeform wants to link directly to it)
raw_avocado: Yes, i cam across the product before
billymg: thimbronion: to me these are (potentially) interesting for the "gas and groceries" use case
raw_avocado: But its still not clear to me how this would help with connecting to the server
billymg: i.e. "live off coin"
thimbronion: billymg: indeed.
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: the pw for the server is the serial baud rate of fg.
asciilifeform: this is largely to keep autospammers off.
thimbronion: they are shitcoin killers.
billymg: but it sounds like with liquid at least the federation members must be just as "compliant" as any other bank or gox
billymg: and so you don't really enjoy any privacy
thimbronion: [not endorsing liquid] The argument goes that the members of the federation are distributed geographically and not all subject to the same political entities. In addition, Liquid has implemented "confidential transactions."
asciilifeform: thimbronion: lol,aha, sorta like spain, latvia, etc. are Officially 'countries' rather than reich satrapies, no matter that extradite to washington at drop of a hat, etc. similarly
thimbronion: billymg: it's not clear, accepting that the transactions actually are confidential, that a federation member would be able to blacklist you.
billymg: thimbronion: like asciilifeform said, pretty much every country in on it https://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/
billymg: with exception of iran and best korea
billymg: maybe one or two others
thimbronion: note that you can't even buy liquid on US based exchange
thimbronion: none of the shitcoin purveyors will sell it because it kills their whole model.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: what happens if, say, 11 of the 15 magick boxes were to walk away ?
asciilifeform finds it interesting how these 'microscope hammers' keep coming back. even tho 'bitcoin on 15 magick boxes' already existed and made 9000 times, e.g. swift, paypal, etc
thimbronion: asciilifeform: No idea. Clearly federations are less secure than Bitcoin, which is why you would only ever hold a small amount of the stuff.
billymg: yeah, that part doesn't bother me, as it would only ever be used for small amounts (if you're not an idiot)
asciilifeform: thimbronion: personally if i had to use a gox, would rather use an ordinary one, vs. an elaborately obscurantist pretend-decentralized wtf. but maybe that's just me
billymg: asciilifeform: my interest in this is whether or not it can be done without all the paperwork that ordinary goxes entail
billymg: strictly for small day-to-day transactions
thimbronion: asciilifeform: are you completely opposed to the idea of varying degrees of decentralization - i.e. in your mind this is a binary thing?
asciilifeform: billymg: i recall there used to be some that dealt only in shitcoins (no fiatola) and 0 paperworks
billymg: asciilifeform: but even so, your IP is connecting to there servers to "log in", etc.
billymg: their*
asciilifeform: thimbronion: it isn't that decentralization doesn't 'come in degrees' -- e.g. bitcoin has variously centralized hash pwr. but that i aint convinced that e.g. the linked item represents any degree of centralization. i've no proof that the magick boxes are factually controlled by independent entities.
thimbronion: billymg: you can run your own node.
asciilifeform: welcome to dulapbot , raw_avocado .
asciilifeform: dulapnet gr
billymg: thimbronion: was referring to e.g. binance
raw_avocado: Made it, of course i had a type :P
billymg: (exchange where no paperwork if coin only)
raw_avocado: @asciilifeform
billymg: although not sure if they still do this, only heard it was like that
raw_avocado: How do i reply specifically to someone
thimbronion: asciilifeform: yes it's basically comes down to how much you wanna put in to determine how decentralized it is vs. what you get from it.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: also i find mention of 'hardware security modules' in the context of a nominally p2p net to be a serious leper's bell
asciilifeform ranks 'ordinary gox' as a less-loathesome thing than 'gox with pretenses'. but already described.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-21 14:20:44 asciilifeform: thimbronion: it isn't that decentralization doesn't 'come in degrees' -- e.g. bitcoin has variously centralized hash pwr. but that i aint convinced that e.g. the linked item represents any degree of centralization. i've no proof that the magick boxes are factually controlled by independent entities.
asciilifeform too many terminals, brb
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I'll leave it at - there is some possibility that this thing is more decentralized than a gox and offers other benefits so why not try it out and risk a small amount of coin.
thimbronion: This assumes you have what to do with small amounts of coin, which I do occasionally.
billymg: raw_avocado: just use their name, anywhere in the message. like this, raw_avocado
raw_avocado: billymg: gotcha
billymg: thimbronion: did you look into lightning as well and choose to try liquid first?
thimbronion: billymg: I never really liked lightning - seems complicated.
billymg: thimbronion: the fact that it works without any "federation members" seems interesting
billymg: and as long as it's only for petty cash amounts the complicated aspect shouldn't matter
raw_avocado: thimbronion: i mean it kinda is, but there are a few solutions(mobile wallets if youre into that) that dont rely on someone else verifying stuff
thimbronion: billymg: this is true. I like it in so far as it counters the shitcoin narrative.
thimbronion: otoh, if one believes that segwit will blow up someday, it will take lightning with it.
asciilifeform points out , ftr, that the other obv. problem with 'magick boxes' is that they are an implicit promise that the seekrits therein do not in fact exist ~outside~ of these boxes. a promise which no user will ever be able to verify.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-10-29 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Djt8g << meanwhile, at the circus, 'This is not a “normal launch” like any other altcoin, because ZCash required a so called “trusted setup”. During this setup, some secret (public) parameters were generated based on a “master private key”. These network parameters are needed to create the so called “zero-knowledge proofs”, which is the anonymizing mixer on the ZCash network. The “master private k
thimbronion: asciilifeform: totally agree
asciilifeform: thimbronion: i'd expect erryone tuned in, grasps this. but for noobs, will point out explicitly.
billymg: thimbronion: yeah, i also like it as a potential route to achieving the kind of transaction scale that makes "compliance" difficult if not impossible to enforce (but perhaps this is naive, enforcement is always selective in any case, and usg can let the orcs buy bananas with it while coming down hard on the holders wanting to escape their cubicle life)
thimbronion: Actually before the events of 2017, I was hoping to be able to use eulora as a gox.
thimbronion: And likewise deedbot.
billymg: deedbot was a fantastic gox, i still miss it
asciilifeform: superficially, a btc-and-shitcoins-only gox seems easy to bake. operate via pgpgrams.
asciilifeform: potentially could even offer e.g. imaginary usd -- with the understanding that it cannot be deposited or withdrawn, but only to purchase xyzcoins
asciilifeform: such a gox would require only a net connection.
asciilifeform would use such a gox, modestly, supposing it were operated by someone in his l2. could then bet on exch rate motions with willing people.
asciilifeform: it was rather frustrating, knowing how e.g. the musk idiocy would go, and even rough time parameter, but unable to make any use of it.
asciilifeform also suspects that the lack of a zero-usg (i.e. fiatola-movement-free) gox helps to impede proper price discovery and in fact makes the riotous volatility possible to begin with
asciilifeform: ideally there's be 9000+ such goxes.
asciilifeform: with 100% public addrs, so can verify reserves at a given moment.
asciilifeform not goxologist, but thinking along lines suggested by signpost earlier. 'what if..'
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-20 12:23:18 signpost: e.g. filecoin existing should not prevent someone from creating btc-tarsnap
thimbronion: I thought binance and bitmex were fiat-free but could be wrong. Obviously they have no transparency whatsoever.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: iirc both now demand to know yer postage addr. and for you not to connect from e.g. usa
asciilifeform could be mistaken, not looked in years
asciilifeform: and of course none of these ever operated via pgp
whaack: raw_avocado: It's always a bummer when you cut open a bad avocado. Regarding syncing up a trb, what specs does the computer you're using have? Also, have you seen http://ztkfg.com/2021/01/restart-trb/ ? Writing this kinda script from the start may save you a month or 2
asciilifeform: whaack: asciilifeform last yr wrote a little proggy, based on wg, which requests $block from, randomly, 1 of $list of noades, and spoonfeeds the noad at localhost. possibly oughta clean this up & post. previously resisted because 'grr, really oughta fix the original, not this kludge'
asciilifeform: currently i'm thinking that anything that ~can~ be 'brought out' of trb, probably oughta be.
asciilifeform: the thing is 'architected' like a pile of liquishit, really aint fixable in any meaningful sense outside of this one, imho
asciilifeform bbl shortly
billymg: asciilifeform: i have not yet made the effort to extract the btc protocol portion of watchglass yet (i.e. separate the irc bot component), but it sounds like this other use case of yours could also benefit from that?
asciilifeform: billymg: in 'wedger.py' already extracted.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-02-26 16:13:05 asciilifeform: bvt: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wedge/wedger.py ; and use with http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wedge/snap_49999.txt or hash file of same format of your choice.
billymg: my crawler uses watchglass via an 'import watchglass' statement at the top of the file, but i'm only using a couple methods out of it
asciilifeform genuinely bbl
billymg: asciilifeform: aha, yes, basically this. ty
billymg: asciilifeform: why not simply 'import wedger' at top of watchglass then?
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-20#1047375 <<< It's Summertime here, I rarely come up for air in non-heathen spaces.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-20 23:53:25 vex: if shinohai will extract his nose from da pink.. b word need attention
shinohai: Who else is gonna piss of the fucktards at the beach still wearing masks while they swim.
whaack: shinohai: ty sir
shinohai: I miss feedbot, seems whaack been having summertime fun of own according to blog.
raw_avocado: whaack: haha. Im running it on a pretty low ass machine. I did not notice it gets stuck, when i checked the debug every now and then. Will pay more attention and run the script if so.
raw_avocado: Dumb question: If i have a synced power ranger node, can't i just copy the blockchain from it. After all its the same blockchain? Or is TRB using a difrent data structure?
shinohai: raw_avocado: nyet, if you are running latest "Bitcoin Core" they use sqlite now iirc, and trb using bdb.
raw_avocado: shinohai: latest since wen? and hello i finally made it here :P
shinohai: Nice raw_avocado if it helps channel is logged and searchable: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log
shinohai: $vwap
busybot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 31770.38 USD
raw_avocado: shinohai: yes, i have been reading a bit of the logs last night before joining.
shinohai: neato.
bingoboingo: Has anyone else ever gone to an old school "psychoanalyst" an have tips for unfucking your head afterwards.
shinohai: wb bingoboingo!
bingoboingo: Recent 9 day trip to see the sea wolves get murdered by Orcas was nice when I was there, but I think therapy might have really fucked something in the meat of my brain
shinohai: Therapy has traditionally seemed to induce unnecessary feels in me and served no useful purpose.
raw_avocado: Therapy is a western invention.
bingoboingo: I went thinking, "Let's do self improvement and kill some weak spots"
shinohai: I'd rather go and beg Diana Coman to be my master than go to therapy so that should say something.
bingoboingo: Then after a month and a half of it becoming a place to vent, bitch ass therapist started asking really insidious but innocent looking questions
bingoboingo: Not much from before the age of 20 or so had ever been in my active attention for years.
shinohai: I'm curious bingoboingo what nationality is said therapist ? Native to Uruguay?
bingoboingo: Bringing that shit to the front... broke my brain. Now I have concrete events demonstrating my worst habits were trained into my by the parents
bingoboingo: shinohai: Native to here
shinohai: I feel that way re: bad habits from parents. But I tend to dismiss them as serving no useful purpose either because must live for today and not for past perceptions of life.
shinohai: I doubt anything from there would be useful to me *today*.
bingoboingo: It opened a serious resentment trap
shinohai: Look at where you are now tho, I mean no one got you there but bingoboingo himself.
shinohai: If anything look at past failings as learning what *not* to do.
bingoboingo: Funny thing, 35's a rather late time in life to discover I'd been trying to fight against a brain dragging around PTSD and ADHD I hadn't known I had
bingoboingo: But MP was right when he identified my problem as being a "ruminant thinker"
shinohai: Well bingoboingo taught me to control ADHD mannerisms by writing discipline for Qntra. I'm grateful for the folks that encouraged me to even start that venture.
bingoboingo: I never expected I could be this damned resentful towards the parents for not dosing me up with ritalin (Instead visible hyperactivity was trained out of me with... that ancient technology of beatings, hence the PTSD)
bingoboingo: shinohai: Where I am right now isn't the greatest place even if Uruguay is the greatest country. I've spent just about the entire last year living on tilt
asciilifeform: wb shinohai and bingoboingo
shinohai: bingoboingo: despite the rocks over past couple of years I still consider you a friend. My gpg key still good ya know.
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: they changed the db format. ( and loox like shinohai already explained )
shinohai: ty asciilifeform just got back to mainland Georgia this a.m.
asciilifeform: bingoboingo: for the most part, shrinks -- harmless, with certain caveats.
bingoboingo has been giving serious though to resettling in a hamlet where the one restaurant open in the off season buys there fish from a guy walking home with his catch in a bucket
shinohai: I'm getting "Old man and the sea" vibes from bingoboingo ....
bingoboingo: The psychiatrist I had to pick up, strictly excellent compared to offerings in old county.
asciilifeform: bingoboingo: asciilifeform aint a shrink. but getting distinct feeling that bingoboingo has the old soldier's 'my war gone by, i miss it so..' condition
shinohai: I thought you were going treasure adventuring. Had I the coin would do same.
bingoboingo: My problem has been the more mundane talkers
bingoboingo: shinohai trip was exploratory. Saw some other folks panning sand in places that... seemed less than promising
bingoboingo: The big treasures were the night sky there and learning that Orcas share the hunting ethics of cats
bingoboingo: Orcas aren't the sort to just kill when they are hungry
shinohai: I got to take tasco along on recent trip. Night sky absent of light pollution was a treat.
bingoboingo: asciilifeform: Quite a bit of that mixed with regret "If only I could have been better in battle when there were battles to fight"
shinohai: Same bingoboingo but as sure as sun sets there will be more battles.
mats: war never ends
bingoboingo: Sure, but with the possibility of Republic gone... I ain't yet found anything my capacity for fanaticism can connect with
bingoboingo: There might be battles left, but I don't know if any of the ones left can be my battles
mats: i'm satisfied with fighting socialists
bingoboingo: I've yet to find people outside the late Republic fighting socialists that aren't just different socialists
mats: stealing state ability to manage their own monetary policy is a good start
bingoboingo: USG already lost it
mats: and long term might pave the way for de-dollarisation (but begins with dollarisation, ironically)
bingoboingo: So a few years ago Russia and China set up a settlement network in their national currencies, dollars set up to break on the fiat side with Bitcoin serving as a further rock to break the dollar's back
shinohai: ^ sauce bingoboingo ?
mats: far left advance in mining-dependent nations / lithium triangle are worth a look. the future of chilean politics (leftists likely to do well), peru (far left farmer won)
mats: SPFS is the ru swift thing
mats: another thing to watch for is stabilization of the digital yuan and assorted payments rails
mats: once its properly settled, expect chinese affiliates to begin targeting western payments systems
mats: beijing is already beginning to take the gloves off, 'hafnium' looks like an unprecedented escalation
bingoboingo: lettuce not forget the rest of the linthium sands that aren't in Chile are... Bolivian
thimbronion: bingoboingo: were ritalin or beatings really the only options?
bingoboingo: thimbronion: Maybe? Had a conversation of this sort with a stranger in Indiana over cam last night. He resented his family for the drugs, I resented mine for the beatings.
bingoboingo: Except he didn't really resent the family according to his words
mats: i would not want to be in a place that heavily relies on digital, rather than cash, retail payments, when the network attacks begin in earnest
mats: only about a quarter of usa is either un- or underbanked
mats: ru is nearly done replacing their usd reserves with rmb, but not sure that even remotely moves the needle on anything that matters
shinohai: tyvm
thimbronion: bingoboingo: I suspect not - though I'm sure they'll say they "did the best they knew how" and whatever other excuses.
bingoboingo: thimbronion Of course mom does
mats: beijing clearly feels emboldened, strong enough to take on the 14 eyes along with jp,kr,tw,etc
shinohai: I had both beatings and drugs (because drugs din work) but chalk it all up to religious cult damaging families' brain. Not a damn thing I could do about - I got out and that was enuf.
bingoboingo: mats: Well the 5 year plan China put out says "We're unplugging from the USSA"
mats: i don't know how to feel about it
mats: its not ideal for cn to emerge as a sole superpower if usa crumbles too quickly
mats: but finding the balance isn't my responsibility
bingoboingo: I don't know if US is actually going to crumble. Given the population's behavior it seems more likely that the US and its western European vassals spend the next couple decades just being shitty hermits
thimbronion: bingoboingo: resentment is a bitch. I've heard that mourning the happy childhood you could have had and accepting its loss helps - but hasn't worked all that well for me thus far.
bingoboingo: For me the worst part if, I don't give a fuck about the childhood. IF it could have just stayed closed and out of my attention another 35 years that would have been great
bingoboingo: But for having been thrust back into my attention, I have lost substantial amounts of time that could have went to anything else
thimbronion: bingoboingo: if anything it might help you at least avoid getting involved with anyone like your folks in the future.
shinohai: Weeping for lost time won't bring it back though.
shinohai: I know it's a him an thing to do it, but fact remains.
shinohai: s/him/human
bingoboingo: So I I know I have to be insane, because I've heard all these things before yet... I've not been able to keep my attention in the present
thimbronion: bingoboingo: ever tried ayahuasca?
bingoboingo: Not yet
thimbronion: I'm considering trying it one of these times I'm down in CR. Some say it helps with this kind of stuff.
bingoboingo: Is that a thing in CR?
thimbronion: Yeah. Evidently there are several guides there.
bingoboingo: May be worth a shot
bingoboingo: Ketamin helped put and end to the flashbacks and has helped wake me up from acute attacks of despondence
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-21 17:35:47 bingoboingo: shinohai: Where I am right now isn't the greatest place even if Uruguay is the greatest country. I've spent just about the entire last year living on tilt
bingoboingo: punkman: Well, I'd been trying to dedicate my life to this Republic thing for a number of years...
punkman: ah the end of tmsr then. well it's time to move on friend.
punkman: ghost of mp doesn't care anymore.
raw_avocado: bingoboingo: have you ever tried meditation?
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047647 << not that I've tried, but would recommend against unless quite experienced.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-21 18:33:37 thimbronion: I'm considering trying it one of these times I'm down in CR. Some say it helps with this kind of stuff.
thimbronion: punkman: experienced with what?
punkman: similar substances
thimbronion: punkman: such as psilocybin?
punkman: sure
punkman: I'd also never recommend psychedelic trip to person in bad frame of mind
punkman rolls cigarette
punkman: tobacco though, tobacco's marvelous
mats: lol
magnus: bingoboingo: for what it's worth, the only thing that ever helped me was the passage of time (with an upbringing very similar to what u described)...
bingoboingo: Time kinda did its thing. Problems is therapy undid what time did
magnus: maybe 3+ of years of keeping myself very busy with other projects... went from thinking about it daily, to maybe once per month...
magnus: ah, right
punkman: having other things to do than think all day, is best cure
magnus: yeah, idle hands and all that...
magnus: there is something to be said for the impermanence of memory... give it enough time, you'll cease caring much at all...
magnus: well, and perhaps accepting that you cannot fix other people... burying an axe in my parent's head would have changed nothing, essentially...
mats: the mind can do strange things to memories, dulling the negatives and enhancing the positives
magnus: best to get out, get away and do your own thing... as shinohai suggested upstack..
magnus: true, quite untrustworthy at times...
magnus: I had quite a good memory when I was younger; turned out to be a curse, when carrying around so much baggage...
magnus: not senile yet but things are nicely dulled down... I ain't complaining...
magnus: (presently in 50s)
mats: more sensible to go to an md and get a panel of tests, blood urine or whatever, than abusing mystery substances because gwern said it was cool
mats: maybe someone has a vit. d deficiency or something mundane
asciilifeform: mats: deficiency of d is normally a 'desk flyer' affliction, i'd be surprised if bingoboingo were to suffer from it. but whoknows.
asciilifeform: the point re 'mystery substances' is factual, but gotta also include the ones peddled Officially, there
punkman: I've been sunbathing in underwear for past year (40-80min / day), helps a lot with general wellbeing
mats: lol, and here i am actively avoiding sunlight with long sleeves and pants
mats: different cultural priorities perhaps, but i hope to look like i'm in my 20s when 60
verisimilitude: I don't forget much; I can't even recall the last thing I've forgotten.
mats: what did you have for breakfast and lunch last fortnight?
verisimilitude: Anyway, even if I were to forget, I've meticulously kept daily records for nearly a decade, which plays into enhancing my memory.
punkman: mats, what, an hour in the sun gonna age you prematurely?
verisimilitude: I'd need to check.
mats: actually yes, punkman
magnus: I have no experience of ayahuasca or modern meds; used lsd a few times, was pleasant and controllable... felt like a mild mental 'refresh' rather than a complete disassembly/reassembly of one's mind
mats: i'm wary about it even with fully applied sunscreen
verisimilitude: What's wrong with socialism?
mats: depends what you think socialism is
punkman: I'm sort of believing the "sunscreen is what gives you skin cancer" conspiracy theory
mats: well, i think mineral sunscreen is superior to chemical screens
mats: i wear it even when i'm sitting in front of the computer
verisimilitude: Let's say socialism mixed with nationalism; what would be wrong with that?
mats: i think nationalism of any kind is stupid
punkman: mats, oh you gettin the plain zinc sunscreen?
mats: zinc/ti oxides
punkman: been meaning to order some
punkman: yeah fuck J & J
punkman: plus their baby powder thing
mats: i prefer it because it lasts longer, whereas the chem stuff will actively degrade even if you're not in the sun
mats: so one application could conceivably go all day if i'm just inside and go out for 15-30 mins
punkman: wearing sunscreen indoors, is for the lamp/screen UV?
mats: yeah, i got blackout blinds recently but it was also useful for the light that got through windows and curtains
asciilifeform: wtf, why wouldja have measurable uv indoors
mats: blue light, not uv
asciilifeform: blue light ~in daytime~ is a feature, not bug
asciilifeform: yer meat expects it
mats: sometimes i'm on the computer 16h a day
mats: i tell myself at least i haven't gone so far as to buy the gamer glasses, gunnars or whatever
mats: lul
asciilifeform: seems easier to buy filter for monitor
raw_avocado: Do you guys still use the WoT and if so what bot do i use to register?
mats: deedbot is napping
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: still in use; ping signpost re deedbot
asciilifeform: (normally it idles in #a on fleanode, but iirc planned to move here)
raw_avocado: asciilifeform: 10x
raw_avocado: Is there a place where all the blogposts / resources of TRB are centralised on ope place?
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: http://therealbitcoin.org is the traditional place. for older stuff, in particular, the ml. errything else -- in the logs.
raw_avocado: Yes, but i noticed diffrent people did diffrent things on their blogs, like whaack posted earlier, was hoping for all of these to be in one place
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: the #a and #trb logs, + the linked www, has pointers to ~100% of trb-related material. imho jurov oughta bring back the ml, would be ideal, made much easier to follow the subj in the past.
asciilifeform: raw_avocado: there's also phf's patch viewer for the early stuff, but catastrophically outta date.
raw_avocado: asciilifeform: Gotcha, ill dig around then. 10x
shinohai: Haven't heard from jurov (or anyone) since I got fleanode #therealbitcoin back. Just thought it might be nice to keep on off chance someone capable finds it through those channels.
asciilifeform: !q seen-anywhere jurov
dulapbot: jurov last seen in #asciilifeform on 2021-07-02 12:26:27: i read about mp yesterday, then said to myself stop procrastinating and check back
asciilifeform: shinohai: ty for keeping it parked. i'ma log the fleanode chans for so long as the thing worx and aint spammed entirely to death
asciilifeform: (but not longer)
shinohai: I figured may as well save it before random troll from kiwi went in and convinced staff to register it.
signpost: raw_avocado: haven't moved deedbot here yet. who are you btw?
raw_avocado: signpost: Just some d00d that used to lurk on and off back in the day and now after hearing about MP decided to dive in
signpost: for now just idle around here. deedbot was pretty specific to freenode's nickserv, hasn't been tweaked to run here yet.
raw_avocado: Gotcha. I just wanted to play around with the WoT, not sure why there is none of these on Twitter yet
signpost: can browse it here http://wot.deedbot.org
raw_avocado: Yes, i did also on https://serajewelks.bitcoin-otc.com/trustgraph.php and btcalpha worx on archieve.is
raw_avocado: The gribble bot is also down on #b-a
signpost: note that "joining the wot" doesn't really do anything. the point is the relationships. the wot's just a denotation.
signpost: deedbot's up in pm btw now.
signpost: feel free to send it a !!help
signpost: I'll have it join here when I figure out why it isn't.
raw_avocado: Yes yes, no shame in the walk of shame . . .
signpost: ... not sure what the fuck you're talking about.
signpost: hah, oh right.
raw_avocado: I can seem to DM it on this server
signpost: yep, should work, might not
raw_avocado: works, i registered my pubkey. 10 bruv
raw_avocado: signpost: can you please try to rate me?
shinohai: tyvm signpost
shinohai: but signpost how do nick ratings vs for example your "new" nick vs old ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-21 21:30:00 signpost: for now just idle around here. deedbot was pretty specific to freenode's nickserv, hasn't been tweaked to run here yet.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 13:46:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039439 << i had to commit this kludge warcrime to get the bot to talk to 'unreal irc'.
asciilifeform: signpost: alternatively we can swap 'rat' in place of this thing and make a 'double star' thing, which is not what asciilifeform wanted but still over9000x better than a 1-box net
asciilifeform: (then can plug bot into your own instance)
asciilifeform: in either case fleanode-style login will have to be patched, it exists only there.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-21#1047748 << very important point, for noobs -- gotta actually cultivate relationships, or 'being in wot' does 0
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-07-21 21:34:26 signpost: note that "joining the wot" doesn't really do anything. the point is the relationships. the wot's just a denotation.
shinohai: bingoboingo: reading above I think it's a rehash of what I said earlier: Writing may very well be the key to regaining mental fortitude.
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