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asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $57256.15
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : Could not connect!
watchglass: : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=681962
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.085s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.087s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.114s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
watchglass: : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=682396 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: : Alive: (0.101s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
watchglass: : Alive: (0.205s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
watchglass: : Alive: (0.305s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=682396
billymg: the updated version of the crawler has been humming along nicely since last night, it's now up to ~4900 nodes discovered (heathen sites report over 9000)
billymg: 16 of those have '' in the user agent string
billymg: i'm also now storing the last list of peers returned by each node as a step towards being able to build a graph of the network
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-04 17:38:31 asciilifeform: billymg: my original half-baked attempt at this, had the aim of being a ~realtime graph of nodez, such as to determine how the hell blox actually propagate, and to what extent is possible to determine just from where, and other pertinent facts
billymg: (vs. previously just using them for the next polling pass)
billymg: as well as storing the complete version message payload that was broadcast when doing the probe
billymg: this can be used for debug/investigative purposes, and the proggy uses it to determine a "version message strategy" (i.e. whether or not it includes the prb byte and which self version it advertises) to coax peers out of the interrogated node
asciilifeform: billymg: neato!
billymg: not yet implemented is a "probe history" column, which will store the results of the last N poll attempts for each node (also for debug/investigative purposes)
billymg: asciilifeform: it was quite the crash course in concurrent programming for me
billymg: the thing flies now though
billymg: looking at the last_probed column in the db, and with max sockets set at 50 (i made this a config value), it processes the entire list of nodes in the db in ~13 minutes
billymg: meaning each node gets hit approximately once every 13 minutes, with the ~5k in the db now. the maxsockets value is the main means of throttling currently so i'd guess one would want to set this lower when starting out so as not to wear out their welcome with any nodes on the network
billymg: thinking about it now though i should probably sort on the last_probed column when selecting from the db
asciilifeform: billymg: consider to genesis this proggy. will be very interesting to read (esp. for asciilifeform , who had a half-written attempt at this 1y+ ago)
billymg: asciilifeform: definitely will
billymg: asciilifeform: btw do you perhaps use any kind of python linter for auto-formatting or have a style guide i should reference? i'm familiar with javascript conventions but not always sure what python programmers prefer
asciilifeform: billymg: i've always simply let emacs indent pythonisms per the defaults. there aint so much room for variation, there, given as it's a cobolistic whitespace-significant lang
billymg: ok, i've taken some notes from the patterns i saw in watchglass, otherwise i've just been trying to keep it consistent/readable
asciilifeform: billymg: interestingly, loox like yer right, 'bitnodes' does in fact explicitly censor trb nao.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-03 12:06:30 billymg: my reason for doing so was because both bitnodes and stopped tracking trb with their crawlers. i used to be able to check from time to time to see how many trb nodes are out there
asciilifeform: will pretend, if manually queried by ip, that any trb noad 'unreachable'
asciilifeform: aaand incidentally not by way of ver number, or the coupla of trb noads set to 70000 would appear
asciilifeform: (they do not)
asciilifeform: !w probe
watchglass: : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
asciilifeform: ok, how about:
asciilifeform: !w probe
watchglass: : ( Alive: (0.218s) V=70001 (/Satoshi:0.8.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=350394
asciilifeform: so it clearly aint about the flag bits, prb 0.8.1 presents as trb-compat. (i.e. no segshit etc)
asciilifeform: !w probe
watchglass: : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
asciilifeform: the bitnodes crawler is supposedly open src -- anyone have time to set it up an' see whether barfs on trb for protocol-related reason ?
asciilifeform looked at their config, nothing in it gives an obvious answer
billymg: asciilifeform: lotta hoops to jump through in setting it up:
asciilifeform: billymg: presently imho all evidence points to the bitnodes operator manually blacklisting trb wherever found.
billymg: i initially looked at it with the idea of repurposing for my crawler, barfed at 1001 dependencies pulled in, then remembered, "hey, watchglass does this"
asciilifeform: even e.g. this kinda garbage still listed.
billymg: lol yeah
billymg: someone forgot to shutdown their amazon instance
billymg: ahem, sorry, "digital ocean"
asciilifeform: billymg: that aint the remarkable bit, but that bitnodes operator happily lists crapola which breaks protocol a la long-forgotten 2017isms
asciilifeform: but ohnoez, mustn't show trb..
asciilifeform: anyone who can find a contact email addr for the thing, encouraged to write..
asciilifeform: gotta admit to a curiosity re what, if anything, would answer.
billymg: he's got his email listed
asciilifeform: billymg: if you've the time, consider to write? ( shinohai ? et al )
billymg: i'm not terribly motivated to reach out to him myself, but i'll share his email with someone who wants to since i already have the shithub account required to view it
verisimilitude: I'd bother him, but I wouldn't know enough to ask a good question.
billymg: actually, shithub account not even needed, he's got it published at the top of his source files
asciilifeform: lol there it is
verisimilitude: The version must be greater than seven thousand, yes.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 99999>70001
verisimilitude: Oh, I wasn't paying attention well enough.
asciilifeform: i'll be surprised if writes back. but was worth a shot.
verisimilitude: A surprising amount of emails go unanswered; I once wrote to a fellow on Hacker News, to let him know I thought his comment was stupid, and why, but never received a response, for some reason.
shinohai: I wrote the guy twice about updating trb info ~2 years ago, never heard a thing back.
asciilifeform: shinohai: unsurprise
shinohai thinks is run by a BTrasher ....
asciilifeform: shinohai: for many yrs, i've not encounterd a public bitcoin-related thing, run by someone out of asciilifeform's l1, that isn't in some obvious way an act of wrecking
verisimilitude: Oh, say, I think I've cured myself of regularly visiting Hacker News, but did see something interesting recently.
verisimilitude: Who here has heard of ``Mighty Browser'', a VC company doing what Cloudflare plans to, providing a remote WWW browser?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: dafuq is a remote www browser ?
asciilifeform: (and why wouldja want one?)
billymg: asciilifeform: it's a browser in your browser, dawg
billymg: lol i was just making a joke off the "yo dawg..." meme
shinohai: "I heard you like browsers, so here's a browser in a browser"
verisimilitude: It's a WWW browser running on another machine, because WWW cretins refuse to optimize anything.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: and through what does one operate it ?
verisimilitude: I don't know; Cloudflare proposed using a WWW browser for the WWW browser>
asciilifeform: i suppose this nonsense 'crossed parody horizon' long ago
asciilifeform can't think of any pov from which this is interesting, aside from the strictly psychiatric
verisimilitude: For all of the crowing about Bitcoin power consumption, I wonder how much WWW cretins waste.
verisimilitude: Oh, but running Slack is more useful than Bitcoin, right!
verisimilitude: Really, it's interesting how incompetent they're; it goes beyond avoiding optimizations for comprehensibility.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: next could wonder how much ferrying chair warmers to/from cube hell wastes
asciilifeform: or usg's battleships moving back'n'forth across ocean. etc
verisimilitude: My chosen example is ``high-speed trading''.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: avoiding comprehensibility is the #1 objective in all of these.
verisimilitude: Those people should be killed in the streets.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: the traders seem like a poor example, just how many of such 'core wars players' even are there.
verisimilitude: There are too many.
billymg: incidentally, they ran the numbers on this one and decided "too much"
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-07 15:35:18 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: next could wonder how much ferrying chair warmers to/from cube hell wastes
asciilifeform: billymg: evidently not Officially 'too much', if the practice is getting brought back?
asciilifeform: (as it appears to be)
billymg: i'm betting it'll be some kind of 50/50 thing, or up to the employee to some degree (and of course most would rather not work at home than pretend to work in the office)
billymg: so even after "reopening" will be a large net reduction
verisimilitude: A workplace shooting is very different working from home, as well.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: while 'sexy' to picture that postalists had sumthing to do with closing the cube hells, the numbers don't seem to support this idea
asciilifeform: not so many of'em.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: outta curiosity, what do you have against the 'fast traders' ? (not that they're societally useful; but seems like a rather niche example, and no scale to speak of, all the people and machines involved would prolly fit in one train car)
verisimilitude: I didn't believe them to be a reason.
verisimilitude: I loathe financial games, and they boast of having network cables and other things wasted on them.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i suspect the old-style 'low frequency' traders burn moar resources (if not as 'spectacularly', they work over pnoje etc)
verisimilitude: If I were to loathe a trading card game, a fellow who only plays with limited edition cards he has spent thousands on may anger me more.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: not having played such games, i suspect the analogy is lost on me?
asciilifeform: aint these a case of 'fool and his money soon parted' ?
verisimilitude: I loathe flamboyant and obnoxious homosexuals moreso than lesser homosexuals.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: can picture; but how do these connect? are there 'flamboyant' hft people in yer social circle ?
verisimilitude: Fine: a high-speed trader killed my father.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: srsly? (how??)
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform probably would not even know that hftism exists if it were not for propaganda on www all of which ultimately traceable to 'low-speed traders'
asciilifeform: ( the latter seem to have a traditional enmity with 'high speed' ones, see it as a 'breaking geneva convention' of a kind)
verisimilitude: Be asciilifeform unfamiliar with the ``a _ killed my father'' cliche?
verisimilitude: It's common in Westerns.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i only recall in 'princess bride'.
verisimilitude: Well, know it's almost always used in a joking way by native speakers.
asciilifeform suspected
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: as general principle, keep in mind that if you read an 'expose' somewhere in nyt, hn, etc (all same for this purpose) and then feel 'emo', 'kill in the streets!' etc., this was the ~intended~ reaction and it was paid for by someone.
asciilifeform: to manipulate naive reader.
asciilifeform: right nao (and for ~10y nao!) they're churning these out re bitcoin.
asciilifeform: (and by all signs, worx on plenty of people)
verisimilitude: Call me idealistic, but I prefer to think most of my hatred is mine.
asciilifeform: this is not even to say that the 'fud' necessarily consists of ~falsehoods~. but in all cases is intended to distract.
verisimilitude: Anyway, I learned of them because they're discussed in programming circles occasionally.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: they seem to be mentioned in quasi-legendary context strictly, 'that's where people still care about latency in nanoseconds, write in asm' etc. but few hard facts publicly known re subj.
verisimilitude: I've never felt ``emo'', to clarify.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: you may find interesting -- at one time we had thread re whether hftism even exists as-advertised.
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-04-10 asciilifeform: ( it they do not exist, it is then a piece of evidence in favour of 'hft does not actually exist, you cannot actually make any money by undercutting by nanosecond ' )
asciilifeform since that thrd , had occasion to verify that errything mp had said in it was true..
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-04-10 asciilifeform: intelligent (in the glass bead sense) folx who are unbound from reality, tend to birth monsters.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: take for instance the haskellists. and that's only 'tip of iceberg' arguably.
verisimilitude: Why ``glass bead''?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: via h. hesse's b00k, 'glass bead game'.
asciilifeform: review by random fishwrap of same, for the innocent.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: in certain circles it is the proverbial name for the glue traps in which many intelligent folx languish today -- where uses 100% of yer brain, for sure, but produces nothing societally useful even in principle (often enuff -- quite opposite)
verisimilitude: Oh, perhaps my Gopher hole and website resemble glass beads.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it doesn't refer to any potential dead end, if that's what yer thinking. but to ~rewarded~ intellectual dead ends.
asciilifeform: i.e. ones that people end up sinking their lives into for money, 'cred', etc.
verisimilitude: Oh, well I needn't worry about profiting from them.
asciilifeform: normally as part of climbing a social hierarchy.
asciilifeform: primo example -- academia as it exists today.
verisimilitude: We have climbed somewhat, asciilifeform.
verisimilitude: People who read our websites tend to like and learn from them.
verisimilitude: I wouldn't have found here had I not seen ``this cool website, loper-os''.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: normally i think of 'climbed hierarchy' in a narrower sense. ( this, specifically. )
snsabot: Logged on 2021-01-28 15:26:42 asciilifeform: billymg: recall how in e.g. nigeria there are villages which live by finding/making little holes in petro pipeline, showin' up w/ buckets, resell
asciilifeform: update re this : fella wrote back, seems genuinely puzzled. revealed current ip of crawler, then i dug through my noad's log and found '(banned)'. seems like his crawler now emits sumthing which sets off 'malleus'.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-05-07 15:03:31 asciilifeform: wrote
asciilifeform: billymg ^ et al.
billymg: asciilifeform: ah, interesting
asciilifeform: still a little strange, because i was under very distinct impression that many trb operators built theirs w/out malleus.
asciilifeform: (subj was beaten to death in the old logs, but w/out it, an ~astonishing~ amt of junk traffic appears)
asciilifeform: anyway, currently seems like a trb noad w/ 'malleus' disabled, would in fact get indexed by 'bitnodes' www. anyone who really wants his to get indexed there, is invited to try (if willing to put up w/ the cost.)
billymg: !w peers
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
billymg: !w peers
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
watchglass: : reported peers:
billymg: ^ two nodes i noticed with some mega peer lists
billymg: trb* nodes
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