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esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864316 << apologies alf, I'm running behind! trying to gather time to get caught up in the next week or two
esthlos: trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl?
esthlos: trinque: wrt the keccak vtron, see http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YWfb5/?raw=true . I haven't managed to get asdf working with ccl, though the sbcl version builds and appears to work. Note that the thing will barf on non-keccak vpatches. Write-up will come in the next few days. I also have some log catch-up to do: will read the context and repond to your other question soon.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855058 << as to this, the initial release (this weekend) will use gnupatch. I tried to design the thing so that I can swap out the patcher for my own afterwords. eventually my own mcilroy should make its way in.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855654 << hey trinque, I plan to have this for you by the end of the weekend. hope that works
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1854912 << I plan to integrate Keccak into the thing this weekend. At that point it should be fully operational.
esthlos: okay, thanks. I'll be more clear
esthlos: sure
esthlos: mircea_popescu: just because it will take a while. should work just fine.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: thank you
esthlos: (comms will still be shakey for a few days)
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-06#1839933 << yep, I was moving, should have communitated this before the fact! am now resuming
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838186 << 2016-03-23 may be the longest log I've read yet. these old logs are swamping me
esthlos: aw shit it's past bedtime. night
esthlos: gotcha
esthlos: ok, seems like I was overindexing on "will"
esthlos: not to trivialize, but are you a schopenhauer fan then? or a more broad idealist?
esthlos: ^^ ignore
esthlos: that we can assemble a semi-coherent reality is only topped by the existence of a semi-coherent reality
esthlos: yes. didn't you just link an uncle al about this?
esthlos: if set of interesting sets is dense in set of all interpretations, how can we proceed?
esthlos: no, though I love watching those bastards zip around and hunt
esthlos: but surely, a dense subset of these sets are uninteresting? there has to be some mechanism to reduce things to some polynomial blowup. or are things really just beyond our grasp?
esthlos: hmm, but to be clear, are you saying that what any person is saying on any ~single~ posting is open to interpretation? because this sounds like hermeneutical approach which lead to the protestant uprising and other bla bla
esthlos: you know, I was in fiat job today, and I realized how badly I needed a global namespace for threads. no wonder no one get anything done
esthlos: but not all the threads. conversations that go on for years and years? this thing is the fucking talmud
esthlos: keeping the summaries allowe me to track the threads of implications. i have nfi how people manage otherwise. though my rote memory sux
esthlos: lol please don't behead poor esthlos :)
esthlos: I see. yeah, following the references, reading the trilema articles, etc. are half the work of reading the logs. and when skipped, render the logs opaque
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-25#1837653 << recent example would be http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835763 and the few posts following .
esthlos: current plan is to push the reading hard I can manage next few weeks, and get a better sense of the sustainable rate
esthlos: speaking of which asciilifeform : past two weeks have shown that 4 logs a day is unsustainable. my log reading time is not decreasing as I had hoped it would
esthlos: lobbes: would be happy to. good incentive to get my minimal btc out of fractional reserve scambase
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836430 << fixed, thanks. linode restarted the thing
esthlos: diana_coman: heh, it was supposed to be "model"
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835817 << you haven't heard? it's all the rage with the youth these days (esthlos needs to run a spellcheck phase)
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835816 << supposedly excel is "functional, like lisp"
esthlos: btw, funny interaction in fiat world. dude: "so let me guess, you like lisp." esthlos: "wow, how did you get that?" dude: "well, you're a differential geometer" esthlos: "wow, ok" dude: "so you must like excel then" esthlos: "huh??" dude: "well, it's very similar to lisp"
esthlos: err demolished
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835578 << my dad's favorite! (I like demonished man, neh)
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835265 << anyone willing to audit my converage and see if I'm doing an ok job?
esthlos: trinque: yes it does, I'm trying not to overcommit but could definitely add once the Keccak/V stuff is off my plate
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833105 << fwiw phf, esthlos-v resolves the graph in the same manner as btcbase, and can press based at any node. of course, without checking the hashes, currently...
esthlos: (I couldn't find it, added by hand)
esthlos: by the way hanbot , does the mp-wp come with the footnotes and spiffy-selection built in?
esthlos: mod6: cool, thanks
esthlos: bbl
esthlos: wrt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832726 and asciilifeform 's "sad mode", the idea of using the manifest was the confusing way the fuck back in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-07#1787163 , where I thought "oh, mp wants me to build a vtron using manifest to resolve tree, guess I need a manifest spec!"
esthlos: I'm going to think of how to proceed and blog the reasoning
esthlos: very interesting, thanks diana_coman and mircea_popescu
esthlos: gah. hope I don't suck, then
esthlos: but if it's desired for entire thing to be lisp, then yeah
esthlos: mircea_popescu: sbcl can call executables (shithub warning): https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/code/run-program.lisp
esthlos: if standalone is difficult due to eucrypt_keccak_bitrate_fix, then I'll plan to copy code
esthlos: question for diana_coman then, is where to base press to get standalone keccak, as refenced: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/18/eucrypt-chapter-6-keccak-transformations/#selection-83.46-83.153
esthlos: cool
esthlos: right. but are you suggesting to pull in all of eucrypt, including mpi, etc.?
esthlos: trying to figure out what patch I can base the press from to get keccak. seems like its eucrypt_keccak_birate_fix, but that pulls in the other components according to the graph
esthlos: sorry, eucrypt (bad enter)
esthlos: so two things I see are: 1. what to do for hasher? somehow integrate phf's item into my vtron? 2. what do to for diff/patch? lisp McIlroy?
esthlos: mmk
esthlos: additionally, before I make another mistake, does this warrant redoing the genesis (because original item is broken?), or a new patch?
esthlos: asciilifeform: this is 100% true. I need some adult supervision. kinda why I'm here
esthlos: ah wait, so sig is "I place my trust in this transformation", but I didn't check initial conditions, did I?
esthlos: ok, I'll get on fixing that. sorry for trouble
esthlos feels demonstration of dumbness incoming...
esthlos: that's correct
esthlos: sigs are checked
esthlos: well, file is signed
esthlos: they are already lying in the vpatch file though. what am I missing?
esthlos: mircea_popescu: it matches hashes to build the dependency graph
esthlos: well there is vtools for vdiff, right?
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832404 << my vtron doesn't include a vdiffer or a patch-applier. was this an oversight?
esthlos: anyway, bbl
esthlos: I'd be happy to be the librarian, though could imagine a system where the bot allows trusted users to "push" summaries or tags. curation is a necessity, but I don't doubt others can produce much better summaries than I
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831237 << interesting. seems like implementing the tags wouldn't be hard, but choosing the right ones would be
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831241 << well I fell into that trap, huh! sounds like a good next project
esthlos: also, my piece shoulda mentioned: about 900 days since the bitbet blowout, which is my starting place
esthlos: mircea_popescu: added bullet-addressing. hope it helps
esthlos: hmm yep, I can generate those. let's see...
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831179 << I have seen that item before, would be helpful now that I think about it, but the link returns "page not found"
esthlos: to be fair to egan, the actual supposition is not that consciousness exists "in" computer, but that it has a mathematical representation. not that it affects mircea_popescu 's point
esthlos: so THAT's what those less wrong folks are jerking off to
esthlos: rofl
esthlos: but then what _is_ the cpu state but an arrangement of electrons? and why can't I say "these electrons on my butt are cpu state 53, those on alpha centauri are cpu state 54..."
esthlos: my vague understanding is: if consciousness can exist "in" a computer, then what happens when the cpu states are reorganized arbitrarily, or distributed spatially? egan supposes that conscious entity can't detect the effect.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: I have not. gotta add it to the list
esthlos: any thoughts on the "consciousness jumping noncontinuously from electron to electron" speil? in the sense that, it seems dumb, but kinda sexy too
esthlos: btw asciilifeform: saw you're a fan of greg egan. ever read permutation city?
esthlos doesn't know the first thing about ruling
esthlos: neal stephenson gave a pretty lulzy rendition of the dynabook in the diamond age. poor kid gets ahold of the republican technology, goes on to rule the world
esthlos: phf: oh yes, the dynabook, you're right
esthlos: phf: I think he wanted to build something for adults, but his work at apple disillusioned him, american adults too retarded for multiple desktops etc. so then yeah, pedo phase
esthlos: his model is mostly based on papert, piaget, and montessori. "The Children's Machine" etc
esthlos: o course, don't think he's done anything of merit since those days.
esthlos: phf: you know, about a year ago I wrote Alan Kay asking wtf happened to computing since the days of darpa and xerox parc. his response was "funding now sux"
esthlos: asciilifeform: bah, sad.
esthlos: asciilifeform: my understanding is that most unis used to have chip fab facilities much like machining facilities, and profs would regularly build iron. did something make the cost skyrocket? (maybe in logz: I will read)
esthlos: tho they do have some stuff going for them. nuclear reactor, excellent math and sciences. but yes, intolerable student body
esthlos: reed. still have some friends out there
esthlos: thanks!
esthlos: asciilifeform: that's what I suspected. most of those transistors wasted by modern kernel anyway
esthlos had the displeasure to go to school in portland
esthlos: oh yes. they just got the freedom (!!!) to pump their own gas
esthlos: asciilifeform: I've heard stories from someone who works the floor of an Intel plant in Oregon. seems like a very costly operation for those low-nm processors
esthlos: somewhat on topic, as someone still reading logz: is eventual plan tmsr dataflow lispm revival? heathen iron has to be abandoned, no?
esthlos: h'ok
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826916 << I try to do everything I can in emacs, it being the "retarded cousin" lisp machine emulator for C machines. even used exwm for a while.
esthlos: aha. so no ultimate threat of violence is needed in slave mind; the knowledge of inadequacy is enough to drive the submission? and then violence works to direct the submission?
esthlos: "This is the technology equivalent of an edgy 14-year-old atheist writing about religion." loller
esthlos: is it possible to trash the non-power pins?
esthlos: fun fun
esthlos: are there good books on the matter which *aren't* archaeological?
esthlos: i haven't opened that one yet, good to know. have you ever checked out john alan's book? It's kinda a denser sicp, and predates it
esthlos: asciilifeform: makes sense wrt the wiki.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: replied
esthlos: haha
esthlos: thanks, geometry of color is verrry interresting (shitpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_space)
esthlos: will do.
esthlos: looks like nuking the auto-paragraph feature for posts also nuked it for comments
esthlos: hmm, will have to look into that
esthlos: there, please
esthlos: thanks
esthlos: ^^ I'm curious what folx think of the above. Reading through the logs, FFA, etc., I've realized how little I know. So I'm thinking that I'll have to devote the majority of my effort to learning the ropes wrt computing before I can pull my weight in here. Does this make sense?
esthlos: sounds good
esthlos: trinque: I added a manifest to my v_genesis vpatch. I'm curious, though, how these items (vtron, manifest) become declared "standard", if ever
esthlos: doh, I had trinque's ip set to the old in /etc/hosts, from when I tried to follow mircea_popescu 's advice and disable dns lol
esthlos: mircea_popescu: nice, thanks
esthlos: last post 2017/12/30, the WIP Cuntoo installer
esthlos: trinque: I might be being thick, but your link http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-02#1820306 doesn't work for me, and I don't see the post on the rest of your site. have you posted the manifest spec somewhere?
esthlos: anyway, enjoying that
esthlos: it reads like a suspense novel..."oh shit, will btc survive????"
esthlos: rich history you guys have here
esthlos: btw, I've been taking the plunge and reading the logs since 2016-03-02, the day of the transaction withholding attack on BB
esthlos: mircea_popescu: yep, that's something I'm working on: not making assumptions. think it's a product of solipsism
esthlos: cool, i'll watch out for it and regrind
esthlos: hey guys, should I have included a manifest file in my genesis? see http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-genesis-or-who-presses-the-pressor/comment-page-1/#comment-17
esthlos: ...never thought of that
esthlos: well, then I have to spin up my buffers again
esthlos: mostly protects me from stupidly closing last emacs frame
esthlos: based on "bind e exec emacs": you don't run as a server?
esthlos: thanks for the rc
esthlos: ah, sad
esthlos: might as well ask: do you have a copy of naggum's emacs?
esthlos: ooooh
esthlos: hey asciilifeform : I'm trying out ratpoison, and lovin it. Mind sharing your workflow/ratpoisonrc?
esthlos: I should mention that I had some trouble pressing it using mod6's v. After the press, the thing complained that the hashes don't match. But if you check it manually, it works out
esthlos: thankie
esthlos: ^^ all
esthlos: lobbes: yeah, not arm. based on https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/dev-lang/php the arm64 coverage looks bad
esthlos: oh and no, haven't looked at BingoBoingo 's thingy. I'll check it out
esthlos: I also killed the part of wordpress which adds line breaks to raw html code, which I will make a vpatch for at some point
esthlos: ben_vulpes: I took the default theme (Kubrick), ripped out most of the php, and tweaked the css. at some point I plan to go through https://codex.wordpress.org/Theme_Development and develop a proper theme, but I've placed it as low priority
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-27#1819254 << well, if you can find problems with my v implementation, i'd be grateful. any testing is appreciated, really
esthlos: oh I should add, the vast majority of time of the proggy is spent calling gpg. would be nice to replace that turd
esthlos: night
esthlos: anyway, think its bedtime. defpackage tomorrow
esthlos: though wrt the pentesting, I would be grateful for any flaws found
esthlos: only to stay organized
esthlos: very light literate programming
esthlos: heh, there was some attempted sarcasm there
esthlos: sounds good trinque
esthlos: break my shit
esthlos: hey douchebag feel like some pentesting?
esthlos: yep!
esthlos: so, what's the path from here?
esthlos: have to change the make-pathname of make-temp-dir back btw, because sbcl barfs
esthlos: ah, nice
esthlos: I am curious though, if http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817664 was working for phf, because it wasn't for either of us it seems
esthlos: excellent, I was trying to make heads or tails of http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eFqSm/?raw=true
esthlos: make-temp-dir is still setting errno to -38. only my snippet was ill-formed
esthlos: I'm looking into the expansion of ccl:with-cstrs to see why it's #_mkdtemp might raise an error
esthlos: now it's returning errno 0
esthlos: I might need some sleep
esthlos: oh, yeah
esthlos: but, verrry strangely, doing it with make-cstring works for me
esthlos: yep, and that's causing the error I believe
esthlos: as in (progn (#_mkdtemp (ccl:with-cstrs ((x "/tmp/fooXXXXXX")) (#_mkdtemp x))) (format t "~a" (ccl::%GET-ERRNO)))
esthlos: can you check the errno with (ccl::%GET-ERRNO) ?
esthlos: example: (ccl:with-cstrs ((x "x")) (#_puts x))
esthlos: err, #_mkdtemp sets errno to -38
esthlos: sorry, don't mean CCL::%ERRNO-DISP is causing the trouble. CCL::%ERRNO-DISP is setting errno to -38, even though it seems to successfully create the directory
esthlos: on the first invocation of make-temp-dir, (ccl::%GET-ERRNO) returns -38, which according to https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/10/linux-error-codes/ is "function not implemented"
esthlos: CCL::%ERRNO-DISP
esthlos: I found the piece of code causing the trouble
esthlos: see the different error messages? I find it odd
esthlos: ah nevermind, I thought I remembered this working
esthlos: well, try this out: load in the file from a ccl repl, run make-wot, back out of the failure, and run wot again
esthlos: now to find a deutsche Frau in pantsuit central
esthlos: i see
esthlos: also mircea_popescu , I'm curious what your formula for learning new languages is; or to be more precise, what your advice is to an esltard trying to not be so tarded
esthlos: funny, they conjure literal beings of pure energy
esthlos: trinque: any time to look at the new vtron? the currently outstanding issues I'm aware of are 1. need to reintroduce a defpackage; 2. weirdness with ccl and building the gpg keychain
esthlos: most admirable physicists I've encountered feel ~ the same. still, idea secudes me from time to time
esthlos: certainly
esthlos: hey mircea_popescu, you used to study physics, right? any opinion on mach's principle?
esthlos: but gotta sleep now. night
esthlos: okay, the keychain in root should be fixed now
esthlos: i've notices that the behaivor of sbcl and ccl for make-pathname is slightly different
esthlos: hmm
esthlos: I'm not free again until Friday evening, so I won't be able to respond or do anything until then
esthlos: to be clear: prevents use as an executable with ccl. sbcl seems to work fine
esthlos: trinque phf et al: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OYaGd/?raw=true << further steps on the vtron. currently it is freaking out when used with my ccl 1.11.5 . the make-temp-dir function phf provided throws an error on the first invocation, which prevents use as an executable, but oddly the function works if I return to the top level and then call it again.
esthlos: night!
esthlos: gotta hit the sack for now, vtron tomorrow
esthlos: but i don't know, probably just have to grow up
esthlos: trinque: I'm a geometer, always searching for higher symmetries, unifying disjoint worldviews
esthlos: trinque: that's rather interesting. anyway, I'm sure you see the dilemma: everyone "successful" around me sees no fundamental problem with usg system, and when you say "this spec is atrocious; have you ever heard of the CLHS?" or any infinite variation on that theme, the only response is incredulity. but what, somehow I have the magic sauce and everyone around me is wrong? this is my current resistance to trilema thought
esthlos: to be clear, model A is standard USG model, where I most clearly see the fraud in the tech (if you recal, my original draw here was lispm, after I read history and saw current state of retardation), and model B is trilema, as I'm beginning to understand it
esthlos: that I'm encountering two incommeasurable pictures of reality, and instead of solidly believing one, I try to straddle the gap. but this fails and always leaves me babbling incoherently
esthlos: presteigous company full of smart people, 100+B USD in assets, and tech is all microshit, aws, scala... what the fuck do I believe
esthlos: in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817320 , trying to reconcile the sheer fraud of USG technology has driven me to the limits of sanity for a number of years now, and even with trilema providing the only solid counterstructure I've found, I do fragment when very successful (in USGland) people around me see no fundamental problem with USG system
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817334 << how else can I make the probability as low as possible that I'm not missing something crucial?
esthlos: trinque: bbbut asteroid mining!
esthlos: I don't have much more to say on the matter
esthlos: but, I see that you come here, bunch of lords rate you negative, and no indication from you that you detect a personal deficiency
esthlos: hmm, I don't know you well enough to speak to that.
esthlos: you shoud assume you're wrong first
esthlos: douchebag: but think about it, what % of things to you think 20 year old making 35K a year working 60 hrs/week is right about? you're not looking at the evidence
esthlos: !!v 3667259ECA10A3974220FFE234E16692881CF66D33AC02AA790F21E619565E5D
esthlos: !!rate Mocky 2 delicious post on Ada
esthlos: will be ready for (another) review tomorrow evening
esthlos: btw trinque, have made most of changes to vtron, just have to add mkstemp for ccl (which I know thanks to phf is #_mkstemp)
esthlos: I don't want to keep rambling. my point is, I think you're somewhat irrational, and your approach is weak supporting evidence to that, though it's a step in the right direction. hence you're a -1, not a -3
esthlos: right, but that goal only gets you past this barrier, not all the others. imho you'd be better served with a goal of "get better", so that "resolve any issues" is really "what can these people teach me" rather than "how can I make them see my true form of pure energy"
esthlos: well what I really want to know, is if you ask because "negrate is bad, let's get rid of it" or "what flaw might this guy be seeing that I can repair and come out superior?"
esthlos: cool
esthlos: my view flipped around when I finally encountered people who were clearly superior in a quite towering way, and I realized that in too many ways I am closer to ant than boot wearer
esthlos: arrogance simply because you're pretty clever compared to the dogshit around you
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