Results 1 ... 55 found in all logged channels for 'wayland'
(pest) phf: well you know how those old hackers be, amptly explored in the logs. "we are learning all kinds of new things from out contributors! we've ported to wayland, added ttf renderer, gtk3 backend, and a docker!!"
(pest) signpost[asciilifeform]: slight pixelation probably due to running in an xwayland window. I can try it on the x11 box (which is also high dpi) later.
(pest) signpost[asciilifeform]: this box is on wayland so xwayland might have even moar fucked dpi situation.
(pest) phf[busybot]: as far as wayland, there aren't "wayland people", the system is being developed by the xorg people, in fact xorg itself has been in "maintenance mode" for a while now, where the bulk of xorg work goes into xwayland, an embeded wayland subsystem for running x programs
(pest) bitbot[asciilifeform|busybot]: Logged on 2022-11-22 19:23:08 phf[awt]: that's also how succesful wayland propaganda works: same people who drove a questionable xorg/xfree86 architecture and codebase into the ground to the point of basically going "fuck this shit, we can't solve all these old standing problems, that we ourselves created" can then attack
(pest) asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016759 << last asciilifeform knew, the wayland people managed to replicate the microshit graphics system faithfully, incl. crashes and 'want remote? here's a 1024x768 desktop' etc
(pest) phf[asciilifeform]: that's also how succesful wayland propaganda works: same people who drove a questionable xorg/xfree86 architecture and codebase into the ground to the point of basically going "fuck this shit, we can't solve all these old standing problems, that we ourselves created" can then attack x as ecosystem with a strawman of their
(pest) dulapbot: (trilema) 2016-04-12 phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point
(asciilifeform) signpost sometimes runs entirely without x, and has boxes with heathen wayland even. works for all
(asciilifeform) verisimilitude: Now in addition to the occasional failure of X11 or Wayland or whatever, I can write about how it logged me out and corrupted some of the filesystem.
(asciilifeform) shinohai: Oh yeah, I remembered all the lulzy discussion re: Wayland in #t ... RIP phf
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:28 phf: sina: could you explain the difference between how keylogger issue manifests in x11 vs. how wayland prevents it, with some technical details?
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:36 phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh)
(trilema) asciilifeform: typical 'type 2' failure is, e.g., 'wayland'
(trilema) mircea_popescu: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833446 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833449 it would seem the correct mezcla would go USE="libressl offensive -X -libnotify -avahi -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -avahi -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr -tls-heartbeat" on the expectation -X does -gpm -gtk3 -gnome implicitly.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 18:03 asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr"
(trilema) asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr"
(trilema) asciilifeform: next, waylandbomber
(trilema) asciilifeform: lemme guess, is 'wayland' also on the conveyor.
(trilema) trinque: USE="-dbus -systemd -wayland -pulseaudio -gtk3 -icu -accessibility -nls -ipv6 -ldap" << with various in package.use
(trilema) phf: well, in a sense that it's not a special wrong. they also run systemd and can't wait for wayland etc. etc.
(trilema) phf: yeah, it would've been neat if people carefully improved existing quality system instead of modernizing, alas. i hear wayland also works!!1
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:48 phf: wayland "mitigates" keylogger issue by not fucking letting you start apps either as a remote user or ~even as a different user on same machine~
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 03:36 phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh)
(trilema) phf: so any wayland app that has access to your wayland session by the obvious implications can do the obvious thing: gpg encrypt all your files, steal all your passwords, and send compromising emails to all your friends, because as should be obvious that app has access to everything else you have access too oh my fucking god the level of retardation i can't even.
(trilema) phf: wayland "mitigates" keylogger issue by not fucking letting you start apps either as a remote user or ~even as a different user on same machine~
(trilema) phf: and this is where we come to wayland
(trilema) phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh)
(trilema) sina: Wayland apps don't
(trilema) phf: sina: could you explain the difference between how keylogger issue manifests in x11 vs. how wayland prevents it, with some technical details?
(trilema) sina: at least Wayland apps can't keylog other Wayland apps like X can
(trilema) sina: I got nothing against Wayland.
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 23:01 asciilifeform: and iirc 'wayland' is one of those infuriating idiocies where 'want remote proggy? here's a DESKTOP, in a 1024x768 box'
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 12:42 phf: but freezing effectively implies lockstep freezing of the whole environment, to hardware. ("oh we deprecated x11, your code better support wayland. oh this new video card only supports wayland, since x11 is deprecated, etc."]
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2017-01-13 23:41 asciilifeform: from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r
(trilema) mircea_popescu: what's wayland ?
(trilema) phf: Enlightenment window manager is "fully committed to moving to Wayland eventually as this is definitely the future of the graphical display layer on Linux." etc.
(trilema) phf: you mean wayland!1
(trilema) asciilifeform: from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r
(trilema) phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455447 << i don't believe in this futureeither, it's orwell silly. but much more realistic is something like what i described above. you buy "current hardware", you can't boot foolinux, because need bios keys, need to boot redhat. redhat supports your video card, but only in wayland, and the keyboard only works through modern-udev. both require vendor provided binary blobs. etc.
(trilema) phf: but freezing effectively implies lockstep freezing of the whole environment, to hardware. ("oh we deprecated x11, your code better support wayland. oh this new video card only supports wayland, since x11 is deprecated, etc."]
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 23:01 phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point
(trilema) asciilifeform: and iirc 'wayland' is one of those infuriating idiocies where 'want remote proggy? here's a DESKTOP, in a 1024x768 box'
(trilema) phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point
(trilema) a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 22:36 phf: speaking of walls and x11, i walked into a comment section of some "game ported to linux" post. guy opted for native xlib/opengl, so he got a wall full of "x11 is deprecated, everyone's moving to wayland, use sdl2". ironically in the post itself he says " when searching for answers to questions that weren’t made quite clear in the documentation, often people that had the same questions I did received answers like ‘Use SDL’, or ‘Use GTK
(trilema) phf: speaking of walls and x11, i walked into a comment section of some "game ported to linux" post. guy opted for native xlib/opengl, so he got a wall full of "x11 is deprecated, everyone's moving to wayland, use sdl2". ironically in the post itself he says " when searching for answers to questions that weren’t made quite clear in the documentation, often people that had the same questions I did received answers like ‘Use SDL’, or ‘Use GTK
(trilema) assbot: Wayland Ported To DragonFlyBSD - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1jwLwpc )
(trilema) assbot: Wayland Ported To DragonFlyBSD - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1jwKZU7 )
(trilema) relaxedman: Still trying to get this gentoo install going(openbsd wouldn't support my gfx card no money to buy a new one) its n6, varia, but stuck on getting a window manager all the guides want me to change profiles. also not sure how wayland fits in any ideas?
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