asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-09#1025448 << asciilifeform thought 'neato', all the way until got to the 'dockerization and cloud' claptrap
bitbot[asciilifeform|cgra]: Logged on 2023-04-09 12:25:55 phf[deedbot|awt|signpost]: medley interlisp 2023 report, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYWFTiai_tA i haven't seen it yet, but for teh "build a lisp machine from twigs and other such sticks" crowd
phf: well you know how those old hackers be, amptly explored in the logs. "we are learning all kinds of new things from out contributors! we've ported to wayland, added ttf renderer, gtk3 backend, and a docker!!"
asciilifeform: phf: wasn't over9000 surprised. but still ugh, 'hey let's resurrect lispm' 'but of course to Modernize!'
phf: m o d e r n i z e
phf: but it's kind of obvious that most people who work on projects like that don't intensely hate the current state of things. particularly old timers, their position is more like "if people knew what structural editor was, they'd add it to intellij!!"
awt[cgra]: !!ticker btc usd
deedbot[cgra]: $28,814
awt[asciilifeform|cgra]: !!ticker btc usd
deedbot[cgra]: $29,022
awt[asciilifeform|cgra]: There we go.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025455 << was aboutta say 'would expect folx who used lisp-alltheway-down to know better than 'they'd add it to..'' then remembered gosling et al
bitbot[cgra|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-04-10 11:50:15 phf[4]: but it's kind of obvious that most people who work on projects like that don't intensely hate the current state of things. particularly old timers, their position is more like "if people knew what structural editor was, they'd add it to intellij!!"
asciilifeform: ( aand see also )
dulapbot: (trilema) 2018-07-16 asciilifeform: 'they cloink a coupla with the sledgehammer so as to break down the find into shards the size they can fit in a pocket, after which they stick it on their oxcart'
asciilifeform: ^ orig. from an mp piece, can't recall which
asciilifeform: in (mostly unrelated) sads, 'clion' ( and asciilifeform bought subscription, lol ) no longer runs on dulap-gentoo. rip.
bitbot[cgra|asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-18 13:05:21 asciilifeform[4]: phf: in other lulz, recently tried oddball commercial proggy editor from the pycharm etc. people -- 'clion'. notbad imho.
asciilifeform 'like total idjit' actually updated it, dozen+ times, actual bugfixes/improvements! until finally 'improved' to death, lol
asciilifeform: ^ signpost phf (and anyone else who used the thing?)
signpost[cgra|asciilifeform]: https://www.jetbrains.com/clion/download/other.html << they keep the old versions around for download
asciilifeform: signpost: of course asciilifeform had backup of the prev. ver., but did pay for the subscription, and thought 'hey, new ver. shows disasm & memory dumps etc'
signpost[cgra|asciilifeform]: ah yep, I don't tend to fight the march of Progress when it comes to running stuff like this.
signpost[cgra|asciilifeform] has a recent Gentoo chroot for such things as this, web browser, etc
signpost[cgra|asciilifeform]: and entirely separate machine for vintage linux
asciilifeform: signpost: thing was remarkable for running on asciilifeform's gentoo 'as-is'. but 'all good things end' eh.
asciilifeform: ( for the innocent -- there was a whole generation of 'commercial linuxware done right', i.e. installed 'without tentacles', didn't care what libc you had, etc. -- e.g. 'eagle cad', these were a++ , but nao afaik all gone )
phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025469 << afaiu you have to figure out how to run whatever latest java first, then you can run the thing as a jar. but i don't know if that applies to most recent clion. i have e.g. intellij running on openbsd, which is what's known as "not for the faint of heart"
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-04-10 13:41:35 asciilifeform[5]: ^ signpost phf (and anyone else who used the thing?)
phf: some plugins fail, but up until last time i upgraded it (which was four months or so ago), the failures were "graceful". some wizard or dialog fails to open due to exception, but without bringing the whole thing down, will just continue to run everything else
phf: main question is "can you even run most recent java on whatever box", i have no idea what all the different acronyms mean, but i recon there's a portalbe opensource jdk that you can boot even on most questionable setups (openbsd)
phf: i can't imagine that oracle does java releases for openbsd…