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(trilema) mike_c: it's running now, and failing.
(trilema) mike_c: i'm just trying to run the tests for now :)
(trilema) mike_c: this module = unittest
(trilema) mike_c: i haven't used this module much. not sure what sop is.
(trilema) mike_c: kthx. maybe test_v.py should have if __init__==main unittest.main()? is that not standard?
(trilema) mike_c: ben_vulpes: I'm used to doctests. how do i run your v unittests?
(trilema) mike_c: oh, 20 lines up. 43 btc in tips 1st 3 months
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: hm? did you mean me?
(trilema) mike_c: I did not, sorry. I decided to use a crappy subsitute for the moment, and if things work out then talk to you about getting something better.
(trilema) mike_c: Naphex: congrats! that's a great first few months.
(trilema) mike_c: good morning
(trilema) mike_c: oh gavin.. "... which should eventually evolve into "download, check for valid signatures, and automatically upgrade" code (yet another feature that I think it is pretty clear people want that can't make it past the Core idea review process)."
(trilema) mike_c: "Because I got balls to take care of." nuff said.
(trilema) mike_c: those all seem legit to me
(trilema) mike_c: because some of them aren't really countries or because the service isn't really available?
(trilema) mike_c: coinbase is pretty global by now. they're up to 27 countries
(trilema) mike_c: I guess he trusts you not to muck with his comment more than to get the payments right :)
(trilema) mike_c: oh, nvm, those are payouts
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: it's not even right..
(trilema) mike_c: !gettrust phf
(trilema) mike_c: I don't think that issue is phrased quite right. I'm not looking to get someone else to do anything.
(trilema) mike_c: but to answer your question, yes.
(trilema) mike_c: ascii_field: the locking thing is not the biggest thing to me, more the accurate list of things that could/should be done.
(trilema) mike_c: But I agree with your point about avoiding a lot of unsigned commentary
(trilema) mike_c: if not already over
(trilema) mike_c: I think we may be close to the line.
(trilema) mike_c: ascii_field; but it's out of date and incomplete
(trilema) mike_c: no, neither does anyone else.
(trilema) mike_c: perhaps then less is more. just a todo-list with open/closed and claimed/unclaimed. communication all stays on mailing list
(trilema) mike_c: ah, but i see your point. mailing list is signed, this wouldn't be.
(trilema) mike_c: No, just every patch. I'll fiddle with it and see if anything interesting happens.
(trilema) mike_c: why unsigned?
(trilema) mike_c: patches are signed, so I don't see why tampering wouldn't be evident.
(trilema) mike_c: Surely. But integrating V could allow for "this patch solved this problem"
(trilema) mike_c: trac is opensource. I bet I could integrate V.
(trilema) mike_c: perhaps I see it too simply. It is the way for me to get source code from people I designate as trusted.
(trilema) mike_c: I for instance have worked things to 75% completion before locking to avoid stalling something.
(trilema) mike_c: who will not suffer wot penalty for not doing what they claimed
(trilema) mike_c: locks only happen with mediocre and lower workers
(trilema) mike_c: mhm. recite the todo list for V :D
(trilema) mike_c: and the list of "what needs to be done"?
(trilema) mike_c: but "know each other" != "know what everyone is working on at all times"
(trilema) mike_c: so 3 out of the 6 people don't run off and do the same thing
(trilema) mike_c: just like someone claims something on your job board and you put their name on it
(trilema) mike_c: who keeps track of who claims what?
(trilema) mike_c: there are ~10 things that could/should be done
(trilema) mike_c: here's the problem - there are ~6 people who may work on V
(trilema) mike_c: it helps. just because idiots use it doesn't mean it's not helpful.
(trilema) mike_c: what, managaing a todo list?
(trilema) mike_c: having a provable and validated package of code is important enough to have something like V. not sure tracking bugs needs to be so rigorous
(trilema) mike_c: phf: like most things, not if done well
(trilema) mike_c: I will, but scattered todo lists in various places, feels like it needs a little project management.
(trilema) mike_c: and etc., etc.
(trilema) mike_c: you know, ascii says 'someone should add file history to V' and I think, yeah, that is much needed and I could bang it out quickly
(trilema) mike_c: trilema job board only goes so far.
(trilema) mike_c: i don't care a whit for it specifically, more for some kind of issue tracking generally.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah. like bugzilla but newer with bells.
(trilema) mike_c: hm. I was thinking for issue tracking.
(trilema) mike_c: mod6, ben_vulpes: does the foundation have any ideological opinions on something like trac?
(trilema) mike_c: interesting. you think that's because of flaky name servers?
(trilema) mike_c: well mazeltov and enjoy. they don't stay small long.
(trilema) mike_c: lol. nice.
(trilema) mike_c: that's always a dangerous posture when the baby wakes up and decides to eat
(trilema) mike_c: hehe. well the *baby* is very cute :)
(trilema) mike_c: congrats pete! any cute pics?
(trilema) mike_c: of course, i'm wrong at least 50% of the time. anyhoo, I like the list :)
(trilema) mike_c: but I don't think there's a ton of patience in here for teaching 101 courses.
(trilema) mike_c: I'm sticking by it. Once you know what a sybil attack is, this is a good venue to learn why what you know isn't quite right.
(trilema) mike_c: Adlai: my point wasn't that we're a bunch of geniuses, more that there are better venues to learn something in depth like what is a sybil attack.
(trilema) mike_c: Adlai: well then you should take the course :)
(trilema) mike_c: hanbot: I would think that would a pre-req for charging, yeah.
(trilema) mike_c: I don't think so. In here is different. Experts learning from experts.
(trilema) mike_c: teach it, charge for it
(trilema) mike_c: there's your syllabus
(trilema) mike_c: anybody looking for a job in bitcoin - take that article, turn it into a course.
(trilema) mike_c: two of em
(trilema) mike_c: cut half of it off
(trilema) mike_c: uh, ur commenting shit on my comment
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: you want comments here or in trilema?
(trilema) mike_c: i mean, this is the long-lost "how do I learn bitcoin"
(trilema) mike_c: not as much as a certification, cuz i don't gives a fuk, but as a reading list. like, if you can't answer this, go research it.
(trilema) mike_c: i like this thing, a lot
(trilema) mike_c: well, don't tell that to mpex.
(trilema) mike_c: right. but if you want to build a service that has proper message security, how else to do it?
(trilema) mike_c: sure, generally. but if you're building a pgp interface.. obviously assbot has done so
(trilema) mike_c: i mean, what's it going to do? root the box? I guess that's worst case.
(trilema) mike_c: i mean nobody (here) knows of any real example of this working.
(trilema) mike_c: malformed ciphertext is just theoretical, no? never seen in wild?
(trilema) mike_c: "coin".. you do on trades.
(trilema) mike_c: you send encrypted message, get encrypted response back in real time
(trilema) mike_c: hehe, no way
(trilema) mike_c: hm. mpex hasn't been cracked by that yet.
(trilema) mike_c: can't do much useful without it.
(trilema) mike_c: now maintained by someone who might keep it up more than a week
(trilema) mike_c: don't we already have a scoop?
(trilema) mike_c: hand-coded PGP impelementation in PHP and javascript
(trilema) mike_c: prolly in php.
(trilema) mike_c: question I don't expect an answer to: how does mpex handle the gpg processing?
(trilema) mike_c: only 17 hours in the air.
(trilema) mike_c: oh, with layover. nevermind
(trilema) mike_c: 22 hours from jfk to shenzen. ouch.
(trilema) mike_c: even on my windows box..
(trilema) mike_c: because I don't trust it.
(trilema) mike_c: JVM is not accepted on my machine
(trilema) mike_c: cuz message has to be encoded for each recipient
(trilema) mike_c: hence long messages
(trilema) mike_c: i was assuming he meant not using AES to encode the message
(trilema) mike_c: but I hear bandwidth is doubling every year for the next 10 years :)
(trilema) mike_c: full rsa would make for some long messages
(trilema) mike_c: *got it :)
(trilema) mike_c: i mean, unless you're supporting HFT, is it really a problem for the client app?
(trilema) mike_c: out of curiousity, what's "too slow"?
(trilema) mike_c: "Generators/Processors for OpenPGP "
(trilema) mike_c: interesting
(trilema) mike_c: whole app is going to java?
(trilema) mike_c: going to give gpgme a run around the block and see how that does.
(trilema) mike_c: thanks. i was looking for good alternatives.
(trilema) mike_c: ah, k. yeah.
(trilema) mike_c: not just verifying. encryptying, decrypting, verifying.
(trilema) mike_c: oh? ok.. I will check it out. thanks.
(trilema) mike_c: wywialm: what do the quedex guys use to talk to gpg?
(trilema) mike_c: !up wywialm
(trilema) mike_c: so what, I'm stuck with bash scripts? how to use the fking thing?
(trilema) mike_c: oh fuck, it stands for "gpg made easy"? that's not promising
(trilema) mike_c: gpgme i don't know about
(trilema) mike_c: a hacked together with band-aids and rubber bands shell callout
(trilema) mike_c: not in my experience, but this area, it is.
(trilema) mike_c: punkman: thanks, I'll check it out. there's a lot of versions floating around
(trilema) mike_c: Currently I am wrangling with python gnupg, which turns out to be a pile of shit
(trilema) mike_c: indeed :)
(trilema) mike_c: yeah, makes sense
(trilema) mike_c: Ok. That was my impression, that the data source wasn't quite ready yet. we can wait.
(trilema) mike_c: hey ascii. wanted to chat about the graph thing when you have a few
(trilema) mike_c: ;;seen asciilifeform
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: if helpful - I see cyrillic on your lines, and garbage for whatever punkman posted
(trilema) mike_c: my mother thought I should be a lawyer
(trilema) mike_c: Meaning the fixing was only worth doing for a smaller number of years.
(trilema) mike_c: Not exactly five years - It's a lot of work. This work wasn't necessarily worth it before enough people took the right notice and the project got some traction
(trilema) mike_c: we = foundation, I'm not doing anything.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah, but, we're fixing the napkin. plz don't blow it up yet mr. satoshi.
(trilema) mike_c: but who knows
(trilema) mike_c: could yes, but it feels like he'd be more likely to blow the whole fucking thing up for some reason rather than use his coins to influence policy.
(trilema) mike_c: satoshi seems to just be holding the detonate button.
(trilema) mike_c: But miners don't get to pick it
(trilema) mike_c: There can only be one.
(trilema) mike_c: or insane :)
(trilema) mike_c: how long does that last?
(trilema) mike_c: in the meantime, everyone sane forks their coins, dumps the scam coin, and now the 60% miners are mining worthless coins.
(trilema) mike_c: this is not unusable.
(trilema) mike_c: majority of miners = 60%? Then 40% of miners stay on bitcoin and blocks take.. 25 minutes?
(trilema) mike_c: No disagreement. I just smiled at the excitement :)
(trilema) mike_c: unless you stick it in the blockchain
(trilema) mike_c: hm, well, nevermind then. perhaps it was temporary.
(trilema) mike_c: that's interesting.. I tried that one specifically before and got nothing, but now it is showing up.
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: none of the bitly links from assbot work for me. they working for you?
(trilema) mike_c: not blindly, but that seems a prerequisite
(trilema) mike_c: i consider it simply, the foundation says so.
(trilema) mike_c: i can not *wait* until this thing is production ready.
(trilema) mike_c: indeed there are, but methinks only one was actually excited about supporting openbsd
(trilema) mike_c: we = mod6 + mod6
(trilema) mike_c: ""phf [R.07] created two patches [R.08] for `stator' to build and run on OpenBSD. This is very exciting, we've been looking forward to supporting this platform for some time now." << is the the royal "we"? :)
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: these assbot bitly links don't seem to work anymore
(trilema) mike_c: did I miss the FAQ link?
(trilema) mike_c: It has an amazing lack of documentation/explanation :)
(trilema) mike_c: i guess he'd rather keep them
(trilema) mike_c: he's only in for ~5 years
(trilema) mike_c: Ok, guy sleeps with child prostitutes, gets busted, goes to jail. Good. "Oh, by the way, give us $50k or we'll take your cars".
(trilema) mike_c: It's just annoying, depending on how cynical you are.
(trilema) mike_c: do they ever *not* have their fucking hand out?
(trilema) mike_c: so, Jared drives to the prostitute, gets busted, and has to pay the feds not to seize the car he drove there in?
(trilema) mike_c: "He also agreed to pay federal authorities another $50,000 so that they wouldn't seize vehicles he used as part of his illegal activities."
(trilema) mike_c: anyway, bed for realz. later all.
(trilema) mike_c: can't find it.
(trilema) mike_c: doh, wrong one
(trilema) mike_c: !s from:mircea_popescu coinion
(trilema) mike_c: if they published x articles
(trilema) mike_c: you offered to pay them
(trilema) mike_c: and the domain is dead
(trilema) mike_c: aww, doesn't look like it. too bad, they were funny
(trilema) mike_c: hehe. is that coinion thing still going?
(trilema) mike_c: that part i do enjoy. when the flailing subsides and they just look stupid.
(trilema) mike_c: well, i don't. but some of it leaks in here :)
(trilema) mike_c: yeah, i'm just too tired to keep even keel. they are annoying me today. just stop fucking with it so we can do some useful things.
(trilema) mike_c: this terminology.. how is yet another altcoin a hard fork
(trilema) mike_c: too much drama for me. i'm going to bed.
(trilema) mike_c: ;;ticker --market bitfinex
(trilema) mike_c: yeah, who knows
(trilema) mike_c: random walk ftw
(trilema) mike_c: just note, there's another random theory in the dust (mpoe correlated to btc price)
(trilema) mike_c: i missed the memo, we're all selling now?
(trilema) mike_c: "The fact that the XT fork hasn't occurred yet is ridiculous," CoinWallet said. << I do so love the tears of rage and frustration.
(trilema) mike_c: punkman: hehe, yeah. I will cry for their inability to push their dust around.
(trilema) mike_c: "However, it will make it prohibitively expensive," << a quarter of a penny is prohibitively expensive?
(trilema) mike_c: somebody gotta get mircea enchroma for xmas
(trilema) mike_c: and actually, looks better now, more contrast.
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: j/k :) the pastels are beautiful.
(trilema) mike_c: i hatez all the colors
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: please change all the colors again, they aren't my favorite.
(trilema) mike_c: yes, he is misguided. I didn't mean to criticize the room, just try to offer him an additional viewpoint.
(trilema) mike_c: that is probably true.
(trilema) mike_c: if your time is worth anything.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah, I just wanted to add the additional advice of - just because you *can* find an investor doesn't mean you should.
(trilema) mike_c: not like you're responsible for him.
(trilema) mike_c: well, you know
(trilema) mike_c: and come up with a better idea.
(trilema) mike_c: you're all telling him how to get money when you should be telling him to stop trying.
(trilema) mike_c: no! just because you can find a woman doesn't mean you should start popping out babies.
(trilema) mike_c: of course you can find someone to give you some money. doesn't mean you should waste your time doing it.
(trilema) mike_c: do you have any reasonable plan for beating the umpteen existing exchanges? or any idea of what their problems are?
(trilema) mike_c: williamdunne: whether or not you can find an investor shouldn't be the determining factor of whether or not you start the business.
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: the entirety of this is "if people actually really really want to see it growing", no more. << interesting idea, but unless *we* want to see it grow I don't see point of writing it up yet.
(trilema) mike_c: from what I remember the framerate wasn't awesome, but entirely usable.
(trilema) mike_c: yup, worked fine. no sound :)
(trilema) mike_c: I used to, yeah. before you did the thing with the binaries
(trilema) mike_c: virtualbox works too
(trilema) mike_c: Can't carry rocks with no horse.
(trilema) mike_c: It was something. I kinda assumed she's killing herself at the end.
(trilema) mike_c: trilema traffic is going to drop by half as your readers start jumping off a cliff.
(trilema) mike_c: hopefully you've got an old romanian love poem or something to follow that up with
(trilema) mike_c: goddamn mircea, that was depressing
(trilema) mike_c: sounds good
(trilema) mike_c: ;;later tell Naphex I may have some need for order matching code. I'd be interested in talking about btcxchange codebase sometime if you're interested
(trilema) mike_c: ;;seen Naphex
(trilema) mike_c: ;;rated dbit
(trilema) mike_c: hopefully Eulora will accomodate me - someone who is perfectly happy with -ev as long as I'm having fun. This should help supply the people who are more interested in the money.
(trilema) mike_c: I'm not so worried about +ev though. I already have a job.
(trilema) mike_c: I'll start poking again and see if danielpbarron can make use of me. He seems to be king of the land :)
(trilema) mike_c: Drank the murky what-not and cleared my head
(trilema) mike_c: I got some of my own skills exploring
(trilema) mike_c: I got some lil bits of nothing
(trilema) mike_c: Hm. Ok, well, then I will start aiming my 30-45 daily mins of play at Eulora then.
(trilema) mike_c: It seems like I would love it like I love Total War - If I have 20 hours a week to play it would be awesome.
(trilema) mike_c: A good question. Short answer - yes. Long answer, I wonder if Eulora in its current state is good for a casual/short-on-time gamer.
(trilema) mike_c: Just a contrarian. I have no idea if it's headed to 80 or 40.
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