← | Results 16251 ... 16500 found in all logged channels for 'f:diana' | →
(trilema) diana_coman: it's of course not exactly surprising, given that one goes from 50 serpent executions to 50mn rather quickly
(trilema) diana_coman: 5 loops is already 15 minutes and ftr 6 loops is still running on that machine as we speak - by the looks of it, it'll be more than 1 hour
(trilema) diana_coman: for completeness: the set of data above is from a different machine hence a bit faster than those of yest
(trilema) diana_coman: hence my original only 3 loops really; but mircea_popescu asked for the full set of 23 loops so there it is, still running
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, one! and look here at times: 1 loop -> 0.000168893 s ; 2 loops -> 0.007213758 s ; 3 loops -> 0.351611073 s ; 4 loops -> 17.74 s ; 5 loops-> 879.95 s
(trilema) diana_coman: basic test including serpent + test project with full set of loops : ossasepia.com/available_resources/ljmp_test.tar
(trilema) diana_coman: so I'll post the testing code with full set of loops in a bit and then go and set up another run too
(trilema) diana_coman: I think a gradual approach (i.e. run it & record results gradually increasing the number of loops) might be useful meanwhile
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895610 -> fwiw the thing is..still running given the full set of loops
(trilema) diana_coman: both with win32 threads
(trilema) diana_coman: no, windows supposedly has zcx with win32 threads
(trilema) diana_coman: no idea if it works really
(trilema) diana_coman: for added lulz, gnat on macos has only zcx :|
(trilema) diana_coman: perhaps that's just because too few loops; I'll report back when I have the numbers though it might take a while
(trilema) diana_coman: hence I wanted to actually add some handlers in there and see but atm it's still working on the full run loops-only so will see after that
(trilema) diana_coman: according to ref manual, of handlers (i.e. regardless of whether exceptions are raised or not)
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, that was just the 3 loops (a,b,c); over 1000 runs, the avg were similar with and without longjmp i.e. 0.46744 without and 0.46754 with longjmp; atm running the full version aka a-v and that hasn't yet finished
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, so up to v, that's clear enough, lol
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose "not catchy enough "
(trilema) diana_coman: that one might not care about that or the other maybe but that doesn't mean it dun' exist now
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes; my point was simply that their "zero-cost" is in fact all sorts of costs
(trilema) diana_coman: also re zero-cost: "this method has considerably poorer performance for the propagation of exceptions"
(trilema) diana_coman: i.e. an exception handler, not necessarily a raise
(trilema) diana_coman: not a big deal; reading here on the sjlj theoretically the biggest slowdown would be when there are some exception handlers so maybe I should add that to testing
(trilema) diana_coman: so far yes because it's already at 0.46 secs; do you want it up to k or what?
(trilema) diana_coman will let it run some 1k times and see an avg
(trilema) diana_coman: about 0.45 secs per run reported (without long jump)
(trilema) diana_coman: certainly, but I'm kind of suspicious that it actually works anyway
(trilema) diana_coman: so hm, if you have a put_line and then the infinite loop, does that still work?
(trilema) diana_coman: but put_line doesn't block, no?
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, it works aka you checked that it was *blocked* on that i/o when it got aborted?
(trilema) diana_coman: ah, can do, yes
(trilema) diana_coman: what's the collector in there?
(trilema) diana_coman: I don't quite get the branches and iterators aka what exactly do you want in there?
(trilema) diana_coman: time real above (sys is 0.015)
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, eucrypt's test on Serpent seem good candidates as one can even adjust how many iterations to do if you want some specific time intervals; current full test of the serpent module (including i/o because of using test vectors in file) is reported by time at ~2.3s without sjlj; this has no tasks/exceptions as such;thing is: time is not extremely precise but I could run I suppose some 1k times and see
(trilema) diana_coman goes to look at serpent maybe
(trilema) diana_coman: but hm, the underlying stuff that takes most time is the mpi c/cpp anyway
(trilema) diana_coman: i.e. possibly some of eucrypt's tests
(trilema) diana_coman: basically those would take long enough
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, it's all about what the task does so I suppose it's enough to plonk in there some rsa ops
(trilema) diana_coman: nope, pragma abort_defer doesn't help (it has to be outside loop because it's not accepted anywhere other than immediately after begin and program is stuck just the same)
(trilema) diana_coman: that's how it sounds from adacore's link; then again the description of the pragma in gnat ref manual is "it has the effect of deferring aborts for the sequence of statements (but not for the declarations or handlers, if any, associated with this statement sequence).
(trilema) diana_coman: not even sure it will; brb
(trilema) diana_coman: I read a bit on that and it seems to me that it is meant to actually add ANOTHER "won't abort here" point so I don't quite see it; but yes, I'll try it anyway
(trilema) diana_coman: it kind of has to be but really, as you just said: wtf if it breaks the standard
(trilema) diana_coman: myeah, sjlj is going to be slower; onth now I don't quite get it WHY is ZCX not able to support async abort
(trilema) diana_coman: although indeed, in this case the check on the tasks' status is too early so not of much use
(trilema) diana_coman: confirmed: with --RTS=sjlj, it does the right thing and actually aborts
(trilema) diana_coman goes to test with --RTS=sjlj, can't hurt
(trilema) diana_coman: from the horse's mouth at https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/platform_specific_information.html : "the zcx run-time does not support asynchronous abort of tasks (abort and select-then-abort constructs) and will instead implement abort by polling points in the runtime. You can add additional polling points explicitly if needed in your application via pragma Abort_Defer."
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose so far the options seem to be 1. maybe there's a way to actually make it choose the sane abort model 2. change the idiotic "ignore the signal" part
(trilema) diana_coman: but ftr when a task is not in this sort of "can't hear you la la", there's no need for any wait, no
(trilema) diana_coman: i.e. if anything, you can say that my test code should wait a bit and then check
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, the check is in the TEST code
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I'm not aware of anything directly equivalent
(trilema) diana_coman: "More precisely, one of the issues seems to be that abort seems to be delivered to the child thread after the check for 'thread aborted' has already been done:" -> this ftr is NOT an issue; if only it were delivered and worked afterwards but it's not; that check is just testing stuff, the more important check is that program hangs
(trilema) diana_coman: bvt's investigation of my ada-won-t-stop test program: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sRqWV/?raw=true
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, my hope is that maybe there is some flag or option that sets it; I'll have to dig deeper to find out exactly
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, asciilifeform from what I see at a quick glance in that s-taprop-linux__adb it actually calls pthread_kill ONLY if "abort_handler_installed" and that in turn seems set only if not some default state ? might be a clue to follow perhaps, I haven't dug much deeper yet
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895120 -> yep, that was precisely my ref when looking at Ada multi-threading and what support it offers; it actually reads a bit better than the barnes' progr in 2012 but it's more focused, obv
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, re the broken "select" , that is exactly this http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894639
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894896 -> ha, apparently you caught old hosting precisely when they messed up; thank you for reporting it, I'll have to sort it out (I had redirection set up from dianacoman->ossasepia since I'm sure it's not only my internal links but atm it's broken, will fix)
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform fwiw my initial http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 was informed by the docs; because yes, docs say a lot of "stops"
(trilema) diana_coman: basically the "hard stop" means *at most* that "next statements won't run" but not at all that "thread will stop"
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, and anyone else interested in testing Ada's failure to abort, minimal test setup: ossasepia.com/available_resources/test_tasks_ada.zip
(trilema) diana_coman: bbl, will post the thing
(trilema) diana_coman: somwhere in __clone iirc
(trilema) diana_coman: it reported dutifully that thread got sig_abrt but then it was still there and ...nothing
(trilema) diana_coman: and it shows those tasks still there; ALSO: from within Ada, you can tell: if your code does abort Task_X and then check Task_X'Terminated , it'll still be false (idem 'Callable still true)
(trilema) diana_coman: ftr I DID look at it with gdb
(trilema) diana_coman: k, I'll take it down and post it a bit later
(trilema) diana_coman: and I mean abort_task(current_task) as well as abort that_task
(trilema) diana_coman: same if Main program does abort for that matter: it still waits for children tasks to be so kind as to...
(trilema) diana_coman: i.e. it "works" in the sense that it politely waits until that wedge task is kind enough to please come out of the loop so you can abort
(trilema) diana_coman: and no, abort does NOT work,at least not on ave1's gnat
(trilema) diana_coman: model of wedged task was infinite loop, yes; and exit(0) was the only thing that did kill it but as you can see, that is C; imported in Ada, sure, but...C
(trilema) diana_coman: hence my additional fuel on fire that no, it does not do what it promises
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, nope; I tried raise Program_Error and it was just as stuck
(trilema) diana_coman: the issue at hand being that ADA doesn't kill ; and to add to this, note that in this case (i.e. some wedged task) it won't actually *finish* even when its checks fail; so that promise that "program will stop running if erroneous state" is at best mis-stated: no, it won't always stop, it might..wait to stop
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, your example in ch16 is same thing as e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894670
(trilema) diana_coman: unless someone wakes up and shows me "here you idiot, THIS is how to actually stop at any time", yes
(trilema) diana_coman: ofc: pragma Import(C, OS_exit, "__gnat_os_exit") and same for abort for that matter; so pretty much as above: to kill, call in C
(trilema) diana_coman: so now I'll have to study that and see how it does it...
(trilema) diana_coman: to kill whole program I mean
(trilema) diana_coman: HA! so....GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) at least...works
(trilema) diana_coman: hopefully there still is some way I've overlooked/haven't yet found, what can I say
(trilema) diana_coman: absolute minimum is hard to define other than 0
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose I still have to try...calling pthread_kill from within ada or somesuch madness
(trilema) diana_coman is afraid THAT is where we're heading to
(trilema) diana_coman: well yes, outside doesn't care /know about state, the uncaring outside, obv
(trilema) diana_coman: ctrl-c from outside still works!
(trilema) diana_coman: ugh, can't say though I'd really want to implement more c/cpp
(trilema) diana_coman: I'm all ears if anyone has some idea re this supposedly simple thing: how to kill-self in ada, whole program but guaranteed to work i.e. without any bullshit "oh, but only if/when..."
(trilema) diana_coman: and I don't know what does this make re I/O operations because you can't quite control they are "in an abortable state" afaik
(trilema) diana_coman: this is what I understand so far: IF you have the misfortune of calling something that won't stop for whatever reason, you're fucked
(trilema) diana_coman: I also tried asynchronous transfer i.e. supposedly "try this and if timeout then do that" but apparently it's in fact still "oh, but ONLY if abortable"
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 -> sadly I must say that I failed to find a way to terminate the program if/when one of the tasks is just looping infinitely ; I tried: abort of the looping task -> nothing,because task is "not in an abortable region"; Abort_Task(Current_Task) from the main program -> still stuck because apparently it takes it to mean "will stop AFTER all my dependent tasks stopped too!"; raising an uncaught except
(trilema) diana_coman: ion -> ditto, still stuck
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I found only this one http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Iitk3/?raw=true although I remember a better one
(trilema) diana_coman: but the whole thing here was more about what completing the job means - which so far is not defined and at any rate it's defined with the Job, not with the worker as it were; anyway, I stumbled on this just as part of usual "poke new things around in all directions"
(trilema) diana_coman: sure, as the code shows there is no infinite loop anyway yes; workers will wait on Get_Job and that's pretty much
(trilema) diana_coman: and to clarify just in case there was any doubt: NO, workers are not meant to loop for ever or any such nonsense; BUT I still can't assume that can not happen!
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work
(trilema) diana_coman: will look at it some more and bbl
(trilema) diana_coman: not while they are in an infinite loop it seems
(trilema) diana_coman: that's exactly my point above
(trilema) diana_coman: but I can't kill them if they are looping!!
(trilema) diana_coman: (since if they block, they also block the whole thing that is stuck waiting on them and can't kill them even)
(trilema) diana_coman: ximum set time, so that they can guarantee that they will NEVER block no matter what
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, in possibly interesting ada-bits: apparently "abort" for tasks does not really kill them if /when they are in an infinite loop; according to ada docs I got the idea of "abort-deferred" i.e. in some states it won't abort but "infinite loop or waiting for a procedure call to return" did not seem to figure there; in practical terms this means that my workers will have to attempt any Job in a guarded manner i.e. give up on it after some ma
(trilema) diana_coman: if /when desired (i.e. at shutdown time, the sequence might be something along the lines send stop signal to sjm and then /after a while, if there is anything still running, call the abort)
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893544 -> adding to this, on (re)^n -read of docs I doubt there's any benefit in having a controlled type in there; essentially the main thread will *wait* for all tasks spawned by the SJM to finish from what I understand; so then aborting them in a Finalize makes precisely 0 sense and instead I should probably make it a plain array and offer users of the package a non-synchronised procedure to abort them
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, you mean the overhead at creating the job itself then (as that's the object that gets bigger to elaborate)
(trilema) diana_coman: and the case-switch is done inside the worker so on their time at most
(trilema) diana_coman: from the job market's pov it's easier to have them not-specialised really
(trilema) diana_coman: overhead of the case-switched/
(trilema) diana_coman: I'll probably need to find out exactly what the overhead for their creation is anyway
(trilema) diana_coman: if there's nothing for them to do, they get killed; but not sure what's the point in keeping them idling anyway; i.e. if it's busy then no, they don't get killed
(trilema) diana_coman: I suspect asciilifeform's point was more along the lines: why kill them at all instead of letting them idle in there until something to do; not really "why do you bother having a way to create them?"
(trilema) diana_coman: in mircea_popescu's model/apache terminology the "workers" are in fact my jobs there: they get created , executed, finish
(trilema) diana_coman: re workers and specialisation: the worker tasks are not specialised, they do whatever job they are given and moreover the choice is made by job type as it were
(trilema) diana_coman: that being said, I'm not sure in fact that there is a need for the Initialize procedure itself if I'm to cut something out (it's enough to initialize the array when declaring it - although technically it will happen later than within initialize,it's still before anyone gets to use it so perfectly adequate)
(trilema) diana_coman: re workers aborting unexpectedly: it shouldn't happen, no; but I can't rely on it not happening
(trilema) diana_coman: s also when a job is finished since the player id may be released or when/if a worker aborts unexpectedly )
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, one could certainly keep at all times 64 worker threads idling and waiting for jobs; initially I had implemented it precisely as such: all it takes is to accept a Get_Job request only when there IS a job to hand out; it adds a bit of complexity in there though because there has to be a flag for "available job" and then it has to be kept up to date correctly (which can be a bit tricky as it's not only when a job is added, it'
(trilema) diana_coman: daca-i cu tovarasi e cu margarina, nu cu unt!!
(trilema) diana_coman: sometimes I wonder if practical-minded is not the polite way of saying unimaginative but anyways
(trilema) diana_coman: well yes, less harmful, perhaps even pretty for a bit (until one remembers that they are anyway just flying worms of sorts)
(trilema) diana_coman: sort of day-dreaming stuff
(trilema) diana_coman: since fluturi are butterflies, they are obviously lighter and not loud but also without much substance and not long lived
(trilema) diana_coman: I'll add to gargauni, goange and barzauni the "fluturi" as one might have those too!
(trilema) diana_coman: well, just choose some forest with...mushrooms at least!
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, q being though ...what's wrong with moving to the forest anyway?
(trilema) diana_coman: no idea but according to reports he "looked totally like a satisfied cat and didn't want to leave"
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, I'm not even sure he doesn't disagree on that already given that he was at his happiest when among 3 sisters
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I never had screen restriction either but for one thing, I did not start at 4 and for the other there is plenty other stuff (including sleep!) that needs to fit it so...
(trilema) diana_coman: heh, yes; he still gets caught at "run down chased by stuff and turn sharply left/right"
(trilema) diana_coman: iirc I was a bit older actually; at 6-7 it was only Basic and casette loading stuff, I think I was more like 10-12 for supaplex
(trilema) diana_coman: he still has restriction on too much screen time so there is that factor too
(trilema) diana_coman: atm he's struggling to become finger-agile enough for supaplex-proficiency so it might take a while
(trilema) diana_coman: thanks asciilifeform! I'm downloading it
(trilema) diana_coman: I've found it online but not for download, and in piecemeal fashion rather than full thing
(trilema) diana_coman: ahhh, if at it, asciilifeform one thing I really try to get hold of and couldn't, perhaps you have it: some offline audiobooks read by this Samoilov Vladimir?
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, no; now I must find it, lol
(trilema) diana_coman: so no, I'm not barfing at communist kid bookz but at propaganda fed while one's too young to even *notice* it
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, you know, I do NOT barf at all at Neznaika and at Nosov in general and yes, I read them as a child an in Romanian and loved them; and I re-read them at 12 and at 19 and at 25 and STILL loved them
(trilema) diana_coman: thing is: it's ~never about what you'd "rather" but ~always about what you'd NOT stand
(trilema) diana_coman: it's even precisely the cover I remember, lol
(trilema) diana_coman: some Romanian author, lemme see, www.anticariat-unu.ro/vorba-buna-inteleptul-de-al-gheorghiu-pogonesti-1980-p98305
(trilema) diana_coman: hmmmm, a tiny Diana loved those well-written children stories; and then she re-read them at age 12 or so and was so shocked to see how much propaganda they were....; my point being: I doubt there is any place which is not "subtly poison" of one sort or another
(trilema) diana_coman: well, not in the US (got once to Boston for a conf. and that's all) and not in English education system at any rate, true
(trilema) diana_coman: it has nothing to do with what student might or might not be able to do; if you have a course on X and the main reference is Z then Z is the main recommended book regardless of anything else, what
(trilema) diana_coman: yes, it has to be here, top of the list if it's tops; it's not "recommend for X's and Y's capabilities" but "recommend for Z topic" , isn't it?
(trilema) diana_coman: set the brighter students to translate it if need be, but anyways, recommend it
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893092 -> honestly, I don't see it: if he luvved to then WHY not recommend it? in martian if that's what it is in, wtf
(trilema) diana_coman: well, then still only...remains
(trilema) diana_coman: pitty you didn't find the prof before finding only his...remains as it were
(trilema) diana_coman: it's actually even translated to Ro, I still have the volumes on my shelf though I go and read...the English version :D
(trilema) diana_coman: later than my outburst :D
(trilema) diana_coman: oh, huh; at least they DID mention Knuth to us
(trilema) diana_coman: just in case anyone wonders: it was anyway all in English, not like one had much in Romanian on the topic (and to this day, reading CS in Romanian is just not worth it)
(trilema) diana_coman: well yes, the noob part being that a. I had not realised that a good book was actually something rare - I had just put it all on the teachers' incompetence/lack of interest in recommending something useful b. it took me that long to realise fully the difference between the bullshit stuff that was abundantly provided and something useful
(trilema) diana_coman: since you were asking re "noob diana_coman": while at Uni, 2nd year or so, I had this outburst at some point: wtf IF only you'd recommend a GOOD book ffs instead of all the bullshit
(trilema) diana_coman: hmmm, is it really THAT good?
(trilema) diana_coman: to know what to ignore, that's the...skill
(trilema) diana_coman: myeah, true; just wanted to point out this sort of rakes for potential noobs out there
(trilema) diana_coman: ance." (p.531, Programming in Ada 2012)
(trilema) diana_coman: speaking of Barnes' Ada book: it IS very useful and I certainly do go back to it quite often still for all sorts but it still has at times such ideas that I can't stand; e.g. "The reader will probably feel that the activation mechanism is somewhat elaborate. However, in practice, the details will rarely need to be considered. They are mentioned in order to show that the mechanism is well defined rather than because of their everyday import
(trilema) diana_coman: I don't recall
(trilema) diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893054 -> that must be THE way to learn languages: 2 at a time, russian+ada in one go to not feel like wasting time
(trilema) diana_coman can't quite make her mind: already/only TEN years ?
(trilema) diana_coman: feeding into the earlier discussion re noobs: of those 14 accepted entries to that competition (+6 failed entries and supposedly out of ALL the Romanian blogs), only 7 still exist online and anyway stopped writing in 2011 -2014
(trilema) diana_coman: well, I really started with 2005 but then I had to upgrade, hence my "I need". It's not blindly,no.
(trilema) diana_coman: yes, I need Ada 2012
(trilema) diana_coman: that sounds not bad at all really
(trilema) diana_coman: but that's the point: side-channels are permissive, #trilema is not; and on the sharp end of it, coming in too early can result in negrate
(trilema) diana_coman: and at any rate if it needs stating: I'm talking for myself here, not for mircea_popescu
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, mno; quite sure we already had this thread already though so I'll let it rest
(trilema) diana_coman: not suggesting there might not be other cases or anything but so far that's what I see
(trilema) diana_coman: fwiw my current (even recently updated!) rule for "when to invite" is ~ "when they are either asking intelligent questions in side-chan already OR have made something useful OR have a concrete, interesting proposition explored first in side-chan"
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, for my curiosity: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892640 -> how is this ANY different from all the other "hey guise, I'ma signal nao" ; by now the "what do you think of X" is almost a signal in itself
(trilema) diana_coman: there is both need and space for more hands; but their training is to happen in the castles-channels, not directly in #trilema; that's my current understanding at least
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, how do you jump to that?
(trilema) diana_coman: for one thing it's not *that* year anymore, perhaps that's the missing bit there
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, I must admit I fail to see *what* did the guy actually contribute; moreover he asked as far as I can see signalling questions, nothing more; granted, they were related to Ada but that's about the only positive I can find in the whole log I had to go through; perhaps it's simply too early for him to be here? maybe first have something done and only then come and show it?
(trilema) diana_coman will check back on this tomorrow
(trilema) diana_coman: trinque, I'll add it to the list; what should I pack and send exactly, once it's done?
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose being "updates" you focused only on what changed in the week covered but A. it makes it very difficult to follow because there's no help to re-load Pizarro issues (maybe just a list of issues at the end with dates and carried over until issue fully addressed?) and B. if nothing happened on crucial issues, it's best to keep them pinging at least
(trilema) diana_coman: the way it reads now, Jan 14 update has a lot of things starting and then by Feb3rd nothing is heard of them at all
(trilema) diana_coman: it would be great to follow up all points/threads started in earlier updates really so they don't get lost
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo, comment is in modq
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked, fwiw I did not get the pingback from your blog either
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, it can wait even longer than that really
(trilema) diana_coman: mind pasting that index or is it accessible somewhere?
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, the funny thing is that I have trouble remembering any names as such - it's more when I read the names that I go "oh, THAT one"
(trilema) diana_coman: in other side quests, I got good ol' Supaplex next to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-25#1829520 ; and a whole batch of old stuff while at it, all running nicely on a dosbox
(trilema) diana_coman: yeah, I recall he even came up for some air rumbling at some point
(trilema) diana_coman: oh hey, congrats to BingoBoingo and belated cake for qntra!
(trilema) diana_coman: trinque, it's possibly best to run your latest script and then hand over everything you need, fresh and clear? not a big issue otherwise to rummage and pack that dir but I don't even recall if I did not touch it further after that point when I sent the genesis patch so I'd rather not introduce artefacts
(trilema) diana_coman: aha; well, mine is stock gentoo rather than musl so yes
(trilema) diana_coman: for full comparison with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892015 mine is GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
(trilema) diana_coman: GNU bash 4.4.12(1)
(trilema) diana_coman: lemme see on that machine..
(trilema) diana_coman: ah, he pressed to next (aka last) node; possibly that makes a diff, hm
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hm?
(trilema) diana_coman: trinque, o hey. Let me know if you need any info from my end.
(trilema) diana_coman: that's pretty much the crux of it: "infinite" comes with cost of heapism baked in, no choice
(trilema) diana_coman: asciilifeform, it IS stock ada tasks, sure; it's not that the q
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo, celcius -> celsius
(trilema) diana_coman: hormones also affect how much /easy muscle is put on for instance
(trilema) diana_coman: hrm, some don't , lol; tits and ass and even more than that
(trilema) diana_coman: so yes, sure, still can, but here, have it even harder because reasons
(trilema) diana_coman: ehm, from personal experience I can tell you that precisely at that age there is basically a massive handicap all of a sudden; and quite visible too
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, well, it's basically those who really cared to vs those who really did NOT care to, will always be able to; uhm? the whole thing was those who really cared to vs those who really cared to, otherwise not much sense imo
(trilema) diana_coman: that might be, sure; doesn't change much though yes, strictly speaking "can" aka a qualified can
(trilema) diana_coman: do you mean that the average girl can still beat the lower placed boys after puberty?
(trilema) diana_coman: I don't quite parse that
(trilema) diana_coman: you mean: at/after puberty, girls can't quite beat the shit out boys anymore and therefore they stop fighting them directly; lol
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose it's a matter of how broad is broad enough basically: i.e. e o ureche si nici n-aude bine
(trilema) diana_coman: uhm, maybe this particular love-mistake is so significant in practice to really make the distinction that no, they are not retarded, they are just ...dunno, love-seeking? and anyway then...why is this not just retarded as well?
(trilema) diana_coman: begging the q: what is it then
(trilema) diana_coman: really? so what, if you notice an amateur making at some point ALSO a childish mistake then...it's not an amateur anymore?
(trilema) diana_coman: I can see at least the distinction proposed there with amateur vs childish
(trilema) diana_coman: to my mind all children ARE childish, what else; but in their case that's just by definition basically, they can't be something else, not an issue
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, so amateur is the childish use of adult brain capacity i.e. a mismatch essentially?
(trilema) diana_coman: not sure I see how that works
(trilema) diana_coman: uhm, you mean one can get out of being childish just by covering ground?
(trilema) diana_coman: the world/whatever he does is his Mummy -> child
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu, what's the difference between this "amateur" and "childish"?
(trilema) diana_coman: but well, it probably all comes from "yes, but we don't do it properly and therefore..."
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